Re-Dating the Gospels AMA

Рет қаралды 4,917

Күн бұрын

Come join me for this grand finale to my course Re-dating the Gospels--without Apologetics.
bc-6561.freshl...
Get my book on dating the Gospels called Late Revelations: amzn.to/3S0ShCO

Пікірлер: 127

@steveclark8538 2 ай бұрын

“I wouldn’t base my religion on memory” great line!

@SobekLOTFC 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for all you do, Dr Litwa 👏

@Marabarra134 3 ай бұрын

Litwa is getting better and better. i thought first he was a bit flat in his presentation but now he is killing it!

@MathewClark-pr4cu 3 ай бұрын

The Best in Post Contemporary Scholarship. Completely agree with you Dr Litwa.

@hebrewenglishbibleread9941 2 ай бұрын

Thank you, Dr. Litwa.

@m.davidlitwa 2 ай бұрын

You're most welcome!

@davidaaronhill5680 3 ай бұрын

Most excellent intro. I realized these points years ago and have been shaking my head at the state of NT scholarship since.

@kengemmer 3 ай бұрын

Your introductory rant should go viral! I know I’ll be sharing it.

@karlu8553 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for this, Dr. Litwa

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

Welcome!

@mistressofstones 3 ай бұрын

Happy late fathers day to you! Looking forward to this one, juicy topic!! 🙂

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

thank you, Jess!

@marvlarson2403 3 ай бұрын

Dr Litwa Were do you date the apostle Paul’s letters in the New Testament?

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

that would take another course to explain, my friend.

@Kytheus_Errant_2106 3 ай бұрын

That sir, is an amazing point. Memories are amorphous impressions and completely subject to entropy. Sometimes have little to do with the outside world.

@anthonycostine5067 3 ай бұрын

Excellent talk on this fascinating subject. Thank you 😇!

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@SPKonrad36918 3 ай бұрын

🤘🔥🤘 thank you doc for taking the time to share and explain these facts

@mistressofstones 3 ай бұрын

I really hope you enjoy your time with your family x

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

I hope so too!

@herbalgerbil 3 ай бұрын

Marcion called his scripture "The gospel of the lord" which lends me to believe that there was only one gospel at around the early 2nd century.

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

or that he thought there was

@TorianTammas 2 ай бұрын

We know for sure that each greek-roman story author considered the other as fakes, inferior and the own version as the single authority.

@rocketmangenesis Ай бұрын

So where can I go at the university level to get a degree in it?

@m.davidlitwa Ай бұрын

I’d be happy to advise you. Catch me over at Patreon.

@scienceexplains302 3 ай бұрын

Eyewitness accounts written immediately after the event often have major errors.

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

too true

@thetabletopskirmisher 3 ай бұрын

Just like real life. And your point being? Are you scrutinising the small details or the big picture? Big picture: Jesus was born, lived, performed miracles, taught, died, rose again, appeared to witnesses, went back to heaven. That's all you need to know. Anyone thinking this stuff is amazing obviously hasn't listened to biblical/documentary/historical etc. critiques of the Bible from Wellhausen and gang back in the mid-19th century. Yawn.

@scienceexplains302 3 ай бұрын

@@thetabletopskirmisher My point is that having eyewitnesses, which the Bible doesn’t of Jesus, as far as we know, still would not mean it is accurate.

@cklai921 3 ай бұрын

@@scienceexplains302 1. Have you actually read the bible? Do you know what you are talking about when you say the Bible doesn't have eyewitness of Jesus? 2. If eyewitness accounts cannot satisfy you, then you might as well totally discount every bit of history since eyewitness accounts according to you are not accurate. Or do you only mean eyewitness accounts of Jesus cannot be accurate?

@scienceexplains302 2 ай бұрын

@@cklai921 History is assessed much more complexly than you indicate. Eyewitness accounts are taken into account but not just believed without question. You changed my “often have major errors” to “are not accurate.” I am an eyewitness to eyewitness accounts having major errors, so you seem to be discounting my eyewitness account very easily. Have *you* actually read the Bible? Instead of arguing by innuendo, educate us as to the eyewitness accounts. Paul claimed to be a “witness” to a spirit. I discount that because it seems clear that spirits don’t exist and if they did they wouldn’t be visible. Mark and Matthew didn’t claim to witness anything. Luke stated that he got his Gospel info from research. In Acts, there are “we” passages , but those would make him a witness of Paul, not Jesus. John was written 60+ years after the events and doesn’t claim to be a witness. I can go over the arguments for and against John the Apostle being the author.

@Ryansarcade9 3 ай бұрын

David Litwa is the new “bible geek.”

@DrVictorVasconcelos 2 ай бұрын

Life expectation is heavily skewed by infant death before modern medicine. If you made past 10 you could absolutely expect to live to something like 65 in most places in most eras of history.

@m.davidlitwa 2 ай бұрын

Excellent! Please cite your source

@milkydud 3 ай бұрын

But dr litwa, the issue of dates of the original doxument cant be settled persay via manuscript attestation. Only if that manuscripts dated can we get a general precise understanding of when a mss was likely compiled. And i suggest reading the dan wallace edited work on tc misconceptions. T

@davidaaronhill5680 3 ай бұрын

And our earliest, non-circular dating attestation is 180ad with Irenaeus.

@poppypalais3108 3 ай бұрын

The life expectancy average can be very misleading. Infant mortality rates were very high, but if you made it past childhood then life expectancy wasn't that much different to today, if, and it's a big if, you were reasonably well off. You couldn't hold public office in Rome until you were 30, and couldn't be a consul until you were 43, older than the limit for US presidents. The median age for quite a large sample of people born before 100bc was 72 at death. Where do you get the information that the apostles had died in the 3 decades following Jesus' death? As far as I know only the fate of one apostle is known. Everything else you say seems pretty reasonable.

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

In most church legends/traditions, the apostles are martyred in the generation after Jesus' death. But yes, that's not historical data. I'd love to get a citation on your median age in antiquity data.

@Paul-px9bf Ай бұрын

The Virgin "Historical" Method vs the Chad He Is Risen

@stls800 3 ай бұрын

You are not a scholar, you are a biased fanatic. You dont event try to be neutral

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

but tell me what you really think?

@katiedotson704 2 ай бұрын

@Tuskoid88, it appears that Dr. Litwa stepped on your toes.

@simonodowd2119 3 ай бұрын

This is such a great summary of all the problems with the Christian faith-centric approach to exploring the Gospels. It's also encouraging seeing scholars frame things in an Outsider Test for Faith (your Book of Mormon example). Thanks for your time and knowledge Dr. Litwa

@arbitScaleModels 3 ай бұрын

These dating exercises should go hand in hand with literary analysis of the Gospels. Who wrote the Gospels? Were they Jews? Did they know anything about Judaism? Did they know Hebrew or Aramaic? Did they know the region and norms of Palestine? Based on these answers, we need to assess the author's capability to understand any concepts from the original followers of Jesus. Based on thr evidence, the authors of the Gospels were completely unqualified hellenistic Greek Roman converts who, if they had any source material, greatly misunderstood it.

@ryandelong2759 3 ай бұрын

No region of Palestine. Palestine etymology comes from the meaning “invader” which is what they are and have always been.

@arbitScaleModels 3 ай бұрын

@@ryandelong2759 Oh really? Good thing your genocide will cover all the evidence.

@arbitScaleModels 3 ай бұрын

@ryandelong2759 According to Herodotus the region was called Palestina several hundred years B.C. And it was officialy renamed Syro Palestina around the 1st Century A.D. Following the peaceful conquest of Jerusalem and the eviction of the Roman empire (which used the Temple as a garbage dump) in the mid 7th Century, it has remained Palestine for over 1,400 years.

@ryandelong2759 3 ай бұрын

@@arbitScaleModels show me the documents of their governing body. You have what is called hearsay and zero evidence. You posit rumors as fact with no actual evidence, when in fact the etymology and historical evidence suggests that the Jews were the inhabitants of that area, not called Palestine and in fact the invaders trying to invade were not peaceful but as the historical etymology and reports of the time is that they were the philistines and as the root word means “invaders”. Your assertion is revisionist history based of of nothing but a few incorrect sources.

@ryandelong2759 3 ай бұрын

@@arbitScaleModels Also Herodotus called the area between Phoenicia and Egypt as all Palestine. This word is used for invaders marking their new territory as the word root means. We know that Palestine isn’t all that land and only when they invade is a t called that. History and the Bible all support this as well as DNA and etymology along with the midrash.

@MIIIM-7 2 ай бұрын

Ash torah = Ash toreth = Ash tarte = Ishtar SH'TR to make the pentacle to make the star The core of esotericism is the study of the earthly human personality spectrum, putting them into categories ⚪️ The most simple one consists in divide it into three : body(early Soma, with 123 dedicated hymns), soul(early Indra, 250), and spirit(early Agni, 200), called the three men, allowing at each character only two possible states(Yin or Yang=The Ashvins, 54) : good(white=whole stroke), or bad(black=broken stroke), which gives you the eight trigram combinations of the Korean flag's Bagua, the eight immortals, and the 8 pointed star of Ishtar, from where comes originaly the symbolic star in the moon and star icon of Islam, going from the individual with all three traits : body(Torah), soul(Qur’an), and spirit(Evaggelion) defective(broken lines), seen as born dead between Moloch legs, and between them antinecromantically burn, to the idealised perfect individual with all three lines whole (LTT=Potter, pottery; AZZ=Mighty, strength; MNW=Wizard, magic) and singularised at the top of its chest … less contagious than the enslaving and Caste System generating original Old Ganges Wordless Pentateuch at which the Phoenicians succumbed by force, effectively under the hands of the mercenary Arabs on 700CE, Tunis, as punition for freely teach to their children that the whole soul is the highly emotional, and the perfect man, the one being as the real extraterrestrials of alpha Centauri, the MLK, wearing the robe the High Priest of Israel does now, is the oxytocinic connectomed, like is written in Quran 53 : the octagram, verses 19-20 and 27 : “those that give to the MLKs' three parts, essence of female(Oxytocin = the most powerful plasmid ring in Universe)”, thing repeated around 1050CE by the character of Ieshua too, quoting the Quran 🟡 🟣 Then comes to divide it into five, with two states about which you are going to be induced into error(Urim and Thummim) through the same Gog and Magog inversions, like in the star of Ashtaroth, the unconsistently changing Vedic Hindu pentagrams(Cantonese : body(earth), instincts(metal), emotions(water), subconscious(wood), rational(air); Greek : instincts(earth=the drinkable fear Soma), emotions(water=killer Indra), rational(air=stealthy Vayu), psy(fire=holy Agni), charges(aether=changing changer Varuna), or Hogwarts houses(4(Slytherin=Indra, Hufflepuff=Soma, Ravenclaw=Vayu, Gryffindor=Agni) + 1(the one brother Voldemort headmasters = Ghosts))); seven with two states (combining the mentioned before) like in the Jewish menorah and early Christian candelabrum(about which the character of Ieshua is made said that less effective than the pentagram : 7 multiply itself less than 5 in the masses, and released by 1350CE) and Harry Potter books’ 7 Defence Against the Dark Arts teachers, further developed into thirteen with two states like the Sephiroth of Hindu Kabbalah, 13 sons of Ishrael(the star) and 13 of ishmael(the broken ring), Ieshua disciples(counting the unknown loved one too), the Greek renamed Indian zodiac constellations(that are 13); or still, the hexagram, which is similar, only in numbers, to the defensive 64 combinations of two states in the north Chinese book of changes, dating on the same epoch 🔴 🟢 🔵 All of them false due in biology the states are three : low suboptimal, optimal, and high suboptimal for any trait expression, with the categories being never independent between them, instead interconnected due product of a more basic neurotransmitters, structuring and polarising cofactors subjacent molecular level, making of esotericism a very dangerous set of proto-eugenic engrams, with serious consequences in reproductive, inheritance, and military drafts rituals when not correctly explained, and still worse if forced to be publicly ignored after islamic, then catholic, etc, executive purposeful established punishments ⚫️ And here why these unrealistic and antibiologic mathematical combinatory memes must be kept secret to can propagate, any public exposition weaken its pathogenic properties upon the highly succeptible young autistic subjects it targets under Ursa Major orders to favor ghrelinic connectomes running at inotocin above the oxytocinic ones ... nude and deathly cloaked of invisibility kzbin.info/aero/PL2UrYaNejMxX6whQpAgqOSDnut8vEISo5&si=O8Ffn5jVrdrLj3ON • VEDANTA kzbin.info/aero/PL2UrYaNejMxU2r2SnEB3m8FaqQkMdvCxn&si=KFlrD6fzQqkDhXDo • VEDANTA II

@NoJesus.NoLife 2 ай бұрын

It seems like everybody just go with the flow without any criticism. Overreacting? I wonder how other scholars respond about the research of dr.Litwa. Don't get me wrong people. I'm just looking for peer reviewed stuff; I'm not attacking dr.Litwa's research. I don't have the expertise to do that. I'm just very careful.

@m.davidlitwa 2 ай бұрын

I have 13 books and 20 articles under peer review. Criticism welcome

@AnnaSibirskaja 3 ай бұрын

14:46 "In the dating game no scientific method provides the smoking gun". I concur 💘

@doktortutankamazon31 3 ай бұрын

The texts themselves ball park date them. Paul is earliest and easy. Gospels are post temple, written elswhere by writers who do not know Judaism well, do not readcHebrew, do not know the holy land geography and are heavily influenced by Greek culture. Q is not required. Occams razor desires simplicity rather than multiplying complexity unnecessarily. Manuscript dating sounds fascinating and beyond my knowledge base. Great work sir. Amazing .

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

many thanks! I wish everyone was so clear-headed

@olivieryeung398 3 ай бұрын

Everything already discussed on Veritas, but good one hour rant

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

it's my cri de couer

@mistressofstones 3 ай бұрын

Yesssss audible!!! I already have lots of your books but ill get audible versions too ❤

@steveclark8538 27 күн бұрын

TY David

@chongsanchan1133 6 сағат бұрын

One of the BEST discussions against apologetics

@EinarGrondal 3 ай бұрын

Thanks Dr. Litwa. Brilliant material. 🎉

@antoniojuanmedina5404 3 ай бұрын

Great work Dr. Litwa, as the saying goes its never to late to learn.😊tnx!

@koppite9600 3 ай бұрын

What were the purpose of the gospels and why was one not enough?

@koppite9600 3 ай бұрын

Church tradition, which church, or did that church die off?

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

the very question Marcion asked. send me a message over at patreon.com/mdavidlitwa

@paulgeorge1144 3 ай бұрын

It's pretty clear that the gospels came after AD70. What is not so obvious is that Paul's letters also post date the destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple and the priesthood. There are many clues in the writings themselves that point to this, Galatians 4:25 for example. The book of Acts is an odd mixture of fact and fiction and should not be relied upon uncritically to reconstruct a life of Paul. Jerome says that Paul witnessed the cataclysm as a young man and fled to Tarsus with his parents.

@koppite9600 3 ай бұрын

What purpose did they serve?

@paulgeorge1144 3 ай бұрын

@@koppite9600 the gospels were necessary to counter heresy, to solidify the myth of origins, for teaching catechumens and to provide a source for liturgy.

@koppite9600 3 ай бұрын

@@paulgeorge1144 If I'm researching where do I read on the purposes they were meant to serve? How do you know this and under which topic do they exist?

@derekschmidt5705 12 күн бұрын

Galatians 4:25-26: Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. He doesn't say Jerusalem is destroyed, only in slavery.

@paulgeorge1144 12 күн бұрын

@@derekschmidt5705 firstly verse 25 has been corrupted. The original reading did not include mention of Hagar. Secondly for a city to be enslaved in the ancient world implied being conquered or subjugated which most certainly happened to Jerusalem in AD70. There are examples of this terminology being used by Josephus.

@robertkraut6392 3 ай бұрын

What does litwa tbhink of c c tor😊rey theory of our translated gospl?

@EdwardM-t8p 3 ай бұрын

Bon voyage David! May your stay in Australia bring you good things and good times 😊

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

Thanks! 😃

@ppau0822 3 ай бұрын

Loving this version of Litwa, pulling no punches! Wish you would have a stream such as this more! Loved it all

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

More to come!

@mistressofstones 3 ай бұрын

@@m.davidlitwa ohhh exciting, bring it on!!

@BeyondDoubtTheology 3 ай бұрын

greeting Dr.Litwa! I sent you an email about hosting you on my channel and promoting this course and your works!

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

thank you! but I didn't get it. Can you message me on patreon.com/mdavidlitwa?

@BeyondDoubtTheology 3 ай бұрын

@@m.davidlitwa Sure thing! I'll do that now!

@BeyondDoubtTheology 3 ай бұрын

@@m.davidlitwa I don't see an email option on your patreon. My apologies I don't know how to navigate it :/

@BeyondDoubtTheology 3 ай бұрын

@@m.davidlitwa Did you receive it Dr Litwa!

@scienceexplains302 3 ай бұрын

I also would expect that they would have identified themselves as direct apostles if they had been. But “common sense,” is a logical fallacy: argument from confidence or argument from popularity. “Common sense” just refers to what the speaker thinks is obvious, so everyone else should, too. I would omit it from any argument.

@m.davidlitwa 3 ай бұрын

fair enough!