Reacting to Dave Ramsey's $415,000 Medical School Debt....

In this video, Dr. Webb reacts to Dave Ramsey's $415,000 Medical School Debt episode
Timesheet
00:01 Introduction
2:47 Dave Ramseys 7 baby steps to financial freedom
6:15 How much this family medicine doctor makes?
8:12 How COVID has affected the physician job economy
11:09 Why its important to have a contingency plan
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Antonio J. Webb, MD
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South Texas Spinal Clinic
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The information provided is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice, or delay in seeking it, because of something you have read on this website. Never rely on information on this website in place of seeking professional medical advice.

[@psp785]

He has some loan forgiveness finishing medical school and hes making 300k Hes gonna be fine

[@jakeizlove]

People could try finding a job with some loan repayment and PLSF over 10 years. I was a little surprised the advice was banking $100K, vs snowballing the smaller debts. I guess the military repayment is kind of bulletproof.

[@frankcb11]

Yeah he isn’t always accurate but if you can avoid maximum debt then do it. Even if it’s working two years before going to meet school and being lean in med school and using all financial help available.

[@10laxmax]

The problem: we need more doctors & there is no picking and choosing the “cheapest” school when trying to be a doctor… you take what you CAN get and you have to pay because there is no other way to reach that goal. (+ if you’re not a resident of a state like wv & others that offer free tuition for residents..) then what? You’re discouraged from starting a family in medical school due to the rigor of work (common age to do so in mid 20s..)& then also discouraged through the entirety of residency for working 80 hours a week for 60k a year. Then we wonder why there’s burnout & shortage. Solution: pay residents like PAs , or have a tax rebate for residents allowing them to take home 60k. Others have suggested no taxed income/yr up until the debt ratio for attendings.

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

There is no shortage, there is just a for-profit healthcare system that values profit over improving human lives.

[@10laxmax]

@@scholaroftheworldalternatehist there is a shortage- perhaps you've had a a bad experience? because if that were the case no one would be alive.

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

@@10laxmax There is not a shortage, doctors are just overrated. Google "how many people do doctors save" and the answer is surprisingly low. I thank the engineers and scientists who extended human lifespan, not doctors.

[@annedon776]

There is a shortage, read the news and reputable publications! WSJ, New England Journal of Med, and so on.

[@cs7623]

I would knock down nurses salaries. They are wayyyy overpaid especially the NPs and APRNs

[@philos212]

Dave Ramsey is one of those financial gurus who has given quasi financial advices. His success is mostly because he somehow ties this to the Bible with picking and choosing verses that fits his beliefs. I have found most of his advices ridiculous and the few that are helpful are just common sense. Regardless, he has made his millions feeding on the unfortunate souls and using the Bible verses to build his empire. Based on his idea, only the super wealthy and the ones who are born into so much wealth can go to medical school or even complete college. That is pure nonsense as well as an elitist mentality. Even if you look at purely from the standpoint of macro-economics, certain debts are healthy, needed, and they help the nation's economic system. Mortgages, car loans, student loans etc. come to mind. All debt is not bad. Certain debts are good and some are really financially sound. People just need to be wise as to how they use debt. If you are using debt for entertainment and daily living, that is probably a terrible idea. However, if you use it for mostly properties that keep some sort of value and provide some return, it is justified. Medical school debt is essential for those students who do not have equal opportunities as the top 1% in the country. If you look at some of the poor nations, they have exactly the same system that Dave is advocating. Only the rich can become doctors in most third-world countries. That is a despicable idea.

[@Lawlesslarry69]

You're absolutely correct. I stopped listening to Ramsey because of what have stated.

[@456myer]

I think Dave Ramseys advice is too common sense and simple for most people who also think scheming is the only way to truly get ahead. What he teaches is patience is the key to having a comfortable life. I agree that if med school truly is costing 500,000 easy then of course there’s no other way to pay for it than by taking out loans. And that’s also the problem here. This is the case for 99.9% of people getting into med school. Why is this the case and how has it become what’s accepted

[@lilrabbitcuz]

But it is actually what happens, check the data on how many medical students have parents that are doctors.

[@vanesslifeygo]

word

[@gregbaker6233]

He believes you should just work your way three school. In order to pay for medical school you would have to work forever to self finance 400k .

[@steadystackin7250]

It's such a huge gamble to go into debt for 400K, with no real guarantee you will be able to pay it back. Anything can happen, even if you do happen to finish school. And then it also will take forever to pay off assuming you do lmao. There's nothing good or normal about being burdened with 400K in uncollatoralized debt

[@rocktorrocks]

Yup! And the amount of rigor and studying required in medical school leaves very limited if any time to work a job let alone one that will cover that cost. It’s a crime that to pursue a profession that is helping and necessary to society you have to become a modern day indentured servant.

[@panzer_TZ]

Dave Ramsey's general principles are sound, and his plan certainly helps people who really struggle with money, but some of the things he says just don't apply to every situation. We'd have very few doctors(and they would only come from very rich families) if the only way to go to medical school was to pay cash. He also says that on an average salary, you're somehow supposed to buy a house(and not live in the middle of nowhere) with 10%-20% down, with a mortgage(including taxes, insurance, and HOA) of no more than 25% of take-home pay, on a 15-year mortgage.

[@steadystackin7250]

@@panzer_TZ you're assuming tuition prices wouldn't adjust for supply and demand. I guarantee you tuition rates would go down if we were not able to borrow so much for medical school. This applies to every educational discipline.

[@panzer_TZ]

@@steadystackin7250 True, but medical school is so expensive that even if prices dropped significantly, it would still be difficult for anyone who isn't already wealthy. You can't work through Medical school, so you would still have to come up with tens of thousands of dollars upfront.

[@FacundoMD]

Great content as always brother ! ER doc here with 500+ K in debt :) !!! But thank god, I have a healthy family and I make a real good income thats allows me to live happy and still pay a reasonable amount towards debt. Will share my plan my life at some point. I have been so busy havent post in a while :(. STAY SAFE ALL !

[@LoLsaladz]

That’s actually very typical for med school, 60k/year tuition + 20k/year living * 4 = 320k plus interest would easily be around 400k.

[@7Bloodfire]

It's probably going to be even more in my case :( .....I haven't even gotten a regular college degree yet. I paid off my house 2 years ago, but the roof has to be fixed, probably replaced, even...........I'm stressed out beyond regular stressed. I want to be an anesthesiologist so bad, but....how?

[@mike112693]

400k isnt as crazy as it sounds now. Thats how bad it is out here

[@inkedbeedeez]

“I’m gonna either pay this crap off or die before I do and it’ll go away” - the extent to which I care about my med school debt 😂🤷🏽‍♂️

[@NursesToRiches]

Dr Webb I've been following you since I ran across your video on how you plan to pay off your student loans of $500k+ and I've enjoyed all of the videos you've made about venturing out into real estate and other sources of active/passive investments. I would love to have you as a guest in one of my videos so we could talk about finances.

[@antoniowebbmd]

Happy to chat with you

[@bluethunder9102]

Obviously you’re very smart Dave Ramsey is great for financially illterate people. However, for people like you high income and literate you should do everything the smart way like paying down the highest interest first vs baby steps

[@boothman9321]

The Ramsey plan uses the "debt snowball" because much of the debt people acrue is from behavioral spending (living like the Joneses). That's another reason why they're so outspoken against credit cards, and not without reason; in 2022 the average American had $7951 in credit card debt. If you don't live within your means, credit cards will take advantage of that and you will pay dearly.

[@drstrange9627]

It’s humorous when people disagree with Dave ramsey’s debt advice…a person who went from bankruptcy to being valued at $600M plus. Like he says: don’t take money advice from poor people.

[@freshtapcoke]

I always like the point of if it was about intelligence, you wouldn’t have unmanageable (or any) debt in the first place

[@bradzeigler]

Ramsey has made it clear that $1,000 isn’t enough of an emergency savings. For the vast majority of his audience, scraping together a thousand bucks is hard enough as it is. If it was more, people would give up on the plan before they ever started paying down debt. He also believes that have a small emergency savings makes people intentionally feel uncomfortable so that they are more motivated to pay off debt and less motivated to eat out, hit the bar, etc. The $1,000 will pay for most unexpected emergencies, but but pay for new AC units, transmissions, etc. Later in the baby steps he suggests raising the emergency savings to 3-6 months of expenses.

[@CastroMKE]

Yeah this is more of a sudden emergency like a tire goes out, or something like that. The real emergency month is 3-6 months of living expenses and ideally more. If people would just stick around to baby step 3, but they can’t get passed baby step 2 so I understand lol

[@buckeye-pe6df]

Dave Ramsey is so out of touch with professional schools. I heard him tell a potential medical student, "shop around." 😂 Dave thinks you can just pick and choose any medical school like they're community colleges.

[@GuyBREW]

Hey Dr.Webb, thank you so much for your videos. They've inspired me to become an orthopedic surgeon myself.

[@Lumpycheeses]

I think the best way to go is Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Paying 8% of discretionary income a month for 10 years is very palatable. As a resident you’re only making 60k-ish a year. I plan to apply to nonprofits or government for residency and fellowship. Even with interest while I have to bankroll all of school, I pay 250k of the 500-600 I owe at 10 years. Where people mess up is they don’t use those 3 years of residency to start feeding into PSLF because you don’t have to.

[@ironqueenfanful]

Me. Listening to this as a future Dr applying for more loans

[@reesercliff]

Lol my fiance will have $250k as an optometrist and thats an OD not MD

[@adamweah8037]

Use debt leverage to become rich , Medical school is so expensive , I appreciate this video. I inherited an amount myself Years back I traded stocks and stared out with the ‘’turn x into millions’’mindset and blew up my account. I left the market in 2016 and came back an F.A handling my portfolio, my investment stream portfolio has grown up to a 7 figure. Forever grateful to LAURA Grace ABELS , I love the passive income…

[@julietrollings9474]

My method is to buy quality fires, anticipate to hold them regardless of what happens , pay up but not too much, keep track, sell only when necessary, and be ready to course correct.

[@floydchusset3143]

Very correct; the bear market has contributed significantly to the growth of my investment. I was able to quickly increase my portfolio from $180K to $572K. Essentially, I was just doing as my financial advisor instructed. You're good to go as long as you get competent assistance

[@marcmiller6367]

The Economists and business leaders were voicing concerns at the start of 2023 that the year could be a difficult one. JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive Jamie Dimon said that the Federal Reserve may need to raise interest rates to 6% to fight inflation, higher than the peak level between 5% and 5.5% in 2023 that most Fed officials penciled in after their December meeting. Although I read an article of people that grossed profits up to $500k during this crash, what are the best stocks to buy/short now or put on

[@edhcb9359]

None of this addresses the GP that graduates with $200k to $300k of debt and makes $200k per year.

[@user-vj9qz3br6l]

Medical School in the USA should be free to those who can get in, and college in general should be affordable. Not 100K for a 4 year degree.

[@edhcb9359]

“Free” like in other countries where the the taxes crush everyone for their entire lives? 🤣

[@Dialogos1989]

@@edhcb9359 yes

[@edhcb9359]

@@Dialogos1989 LOL! Glad that’s not us!

[@Dialogos1989]

@@edhcb9359 I’m on the poor end of the spectrum. I would benefit from higher taxes. Honestly the typical American has too much sh*t to begin with, I’m totally fine with more taxes all around

[@edhcb9359]

@@Dialogos1989 I hope you realize that in places like Europe, even the poor people pay upwards of 25% income tax. The bottom 50% of earners in America pay zero federal income tax after deductions.

[@wreckim]

Ramsey doesn't understand, or want to, that many school loans can be offset. Teachers, if they teach in low income areas, can get most of their loans paid off over 5 years or so. Education is the easiest way for middle-range-talent people like me to make a good living. There are also some very talented people in these fields, as there are in medical field, but in neither do you find investment geniuses by the dozens etc.. Ramsey thinks everyone can just make the right moves and save themselves to millions. Not.

[@jonfilibuster8499]

Good plan. Remember, these loan repayment options are NOT tax free. You can't calculate these precisely, especially when dealing 6 figure income level of taxes. It'll be good to have some in reserve

[@lakeishaspikner1014]

I'm the average worker and I have been watching your videos and they have helped me tremendously.

[@cbbcbb6803]

I assume that the combination of your student loan repayment, office expenses for running a medical practice (supplies, equipment rental, office space rental or purchase, employee salaries, etc), personal expenses (housing, food, clothing, medicine, entertainment, etc) is high. And therefore your income may be higher than most. I am thinking that your income, expenses, and savings match each other. David is right to warn about assuming that the extreme hypothetical and bring leery of it.

[@larrycopenhaver]

I had ankle sugery in san antonio about 8 years ago. dr cassillas.

[@JimB16]

I've met several young physicians who have close to a million dollars in student loans... 😢

[@njpme]

Ouch

[@drstrange9627]

It cracks me up when people want to give their opinion on Dave ramsey’s advice…the guy who went bankrupt and is now worth $600M+.

[@kakefisk]

Do you know how he got bankrupt, and how this relates to the advice he's currently giving on debt?

[@danielbarry4563]

Great video, Dr. Webb! Dave’s advice was actually better than I thought it would be, but I was bothered when he told the doc who was calling in that his (promised) $500k of combined loan repayment was going to be more than he needed. Since I’m guessing this doc’s loan repayments are going to be counted as taxable income (unless he’s in an NHSC loan repayment plan for his primary job) he’s going to need a lot more than $500k to pay back $400k of loans.

[@BusArch42]

This is why are medical costs are so high. Medical school is a private operation here. Other countries don’t require drs to borrow this much for school.

[@andrewbellas9279]

lmao thats not why at all. Doctors pay is only 10% of health care spending per year.

[@BusArch42]

@@andrewbellas9279 US ($) UK (£) Starting Salary 68K 28K Average Salary 294K 66K

[@runningdebate2670]

My wife is on her second residency now for plastic surgery after doing a general surgery residency and now applying for fellowship next month, crap never ends. 250k in student loan debt but thankfully going into a specialty that pays, I do okay myself make around 220k+ a year thankfully to support us both during her residency since we don't live together and paying about 4k between the 2 of us in rent.

[@lynnterrific]

Just out of curiosity, what fellowship is she pursuing?

[@runningdebate2670]

@@lynnterrific Cranialfacial (Peds) But she applied to Micro also when that was open.

[@lynnterrific]

@@runningdebate2670 I absolutely love that for her! 😍 Hope everything works out and she gets the fellowship of her choice! Also, she's blessed to have you. Almost in the final stages. Ya'll got this!

[@runningdebate2670]

@Lynn Ty, yeah been a long journey for both especially her, and it's been hard we haven't lived together in 3 years as I can't relocate for work so we only meet one weekend a month it sucks. Ty for your kind words.

[@premium3307]

You guys living the life I decided to not live for another few years. I have an immense respect for you guys, I hope it works out for your family, that you both take it easy once she earns an attending salary and that keeps you guys going for much longer than rushing into 70+ hours a week once she's an attending.

[@dubreil07]

If a med student has parents or parents that are willing to work with them they should stay home for 2 years and aggressively pay off those loans and let mom and dad buy food and stuff for them to survive

[@gracedean2957]

I worked for a university- now doctors have 1 million dollars debt coming out of school 😞

[@MafiosoDon21]

You mean, you as a “Doctor” reach that amount of debt ?!

[@njpme]

Geez

[@gracedean2957]

@@MafiosoDon21 yes many of the students were complaining to me that they owe 1 million dollars with federal loans and private loans together.

[@MafiosoDon21]

@@gracedean2957 holy fuck, excuse my language. But damn, that’s a lot of debt in order to become “Doctor”. What happened, grants wasn’t enough?

[@gracedean2957]

@@MafiosoDon21 I believe state grants cover for undergraduate programs anything past undergraduate schooling you are responsible for the cost.

[@pep590]

I just found your page Dr. Webb and enjoyed this video. I just noticed your very cool USAF shadow box. I was also AF and was a SSgt. Cool that you are in San Antonio where our Air Force adventure all began at Lackland. God bless my AF Vet brother.

[@WheelerRickRambles]

In the financial world, of which I worked for 10+ yrs (fully licensed financial advisor for major wall street firm) … Ramsey is a complete joke, not respected and seen as a quack.

[@signalfire6691]

Hi Dr. Webb; your feed came up on my list because I've been studying spinal stenosis surgeries and options; I just had a dx of a disc bulge or maybe rupture (pending MRI, this is based on today's x-ray alone), age 70, I ignored it for a long while but the sciatica is preventing me doing much of anything; I just wanted to thank you and every doctor out there for your dedication, personal sacrifices and hard-won skill sets. I hope you realize the good you do every day for people. I've had surgery several times in my life and some illnesses that in times past I know I would not have survived except for modern medicine. The government should be subsidizing your long years of training; no one should have to worry about such enormous levels of debt. When the Founders wrote 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' they meant health, too.

[@mikezappulla4092]

Haven’t followed Dave Ramsey, will pay more attention to him. Thanks for the vid doc.

[@fredwerza3478]

I like Dr. Webb being aggressive about his real estate investments --- it's going to pay handsome dividends down the line!

[@robertohidalgo782]

How you Invest Money in the Real State area Dr Webb ? Which States you consider profitable or you Only Invest in properties in Texas ?

[@thesportspsych]

My fiancé is a DVM. Has 450k 😅

[@kathryncashner3294]

Ramsey's program is great for people who need rapid gratification and little impulse control. That rarely applies to those of us who completed medical school and residency. This guy is in a great position with outside sources paying off his loans. "you only have $415 so you won't get to the last dips?" He sort of forgot about interest on that......It makes no difference if his loans are paid off before he gets that last dip from the government or hospital corporation....the fact is that he's paid off his debt, which was the goal. The goal was NOT to pull every penny he could from the government. Get what he is entitled to as quickly as possible, then enjoy life..and he won't be doing baby steps!

[@kobebiankabryant8682]

I remember when one man called up to Dave saying he made 3 million a month but he was still in debt. Dave's mouth dropped 😂... 36 million a year

[@ibraheamz]

The audio in the videos is very low. I would suggest using a blue snowball or yeti. Great video and meaningful commentary Dr. Webb.

[@Essays4College]

Dr. Webb what is your take on Penn's decision to waive the MCAT for underrepresented students? It would be interesting to hear your opinion in an upcoming video.

[@bronsoncarroll4249]

how do you feel abt the pm&r specialty. i’ve been doing research and i’m just wondering what you know about it.

[@jisezer]

Dave Ramsay is one of the most predatory men around. The best part is that he doesn't follow his own advice.

[@456myer]

What do they say is the reason for crazy med school prices?? Is it the length of time? How much it costs to pay the professors?? Placement costs?? Is this price gouging or true costs

[@ElisabetTX]

I used to love Dave, but as I grow as a person he’s not my favorite person out there. I watched this video because of you. I was curious what he was going to say, but I found it to be reasonable and really smart. Some of his advice when it comes to schooling… meh. Most of his advice is excellent though.

[@kobebiankabryant8682]

Dave curses everybody out🙈😫😫😫

[@tonnac1955]

Instead of loans we pay them here.

[@kaitlynkilpatrick36]

300k for family medicine straight out of residency is almoat unheard of... 200-225k is more realistic starting out. Jeez. Wish i knew what kind of gig he got to earn that much out of the gate.

[@derrickcleveland1681]

Totally agree! I’m a PA in urgent care and I was thinking closer to 200K.

[@isaiahfrancis6426]

Great video!!! Dave Ramsey is definitely one of the GOATs🎉 and really gets you thinking about how you spend money and what are the norms in society. Keep up the great content!

[@MrMustangrick]

The title to this video is misleading. Ramsey does not have the medical debt.

[@Baisakhi79789]

Hey i am from india My left breast swell and areola also it feels sensitive to touch and feel heavy before my period but during my period the heaviness gone and sensitiveness also but swollen is still there to decrease the swollen i do yoga but my right breast veins are visible i don't know what going wrong please help me

[@PenusDrippings]

I’ll squeeze it for you.

[@ladybug3393]

Dr claud anderson is also good

[@jumpingjeffflash9946]

USAF E-5 to MD? nice work

[@antoniowebbmd]

Yes! Thank you!!

[@hesamb9135]

Use the debt leverage to become rich in near future. I personally hate paying off debts as long as you can handle the payments

[@Rebecca.xoxoxo]

Are you not paying interest on this debt? If so then that’s a silly move as you’ll be giving away money in interest.

[@hesamb9135]

@@Rebecca.xoxoxoyou gotta think about the next 10 years to understand the advantage of investing your money rather than paying off a loan. You'll get way more profit in doing so as long as you can handle the payments 😉

[@emphasis20]

Who's on the hook for the debts in the event someone unexpectedly passes away? I genuinely want to know.

[@mikemalloy1681]

Actually, this doctor could have joined the military as soon as he got into medical school, and to my knowledge they will pay for your medical education, but you have to give them 6 years of your life. But what the heck. You are a doctor, you are not in the Infantry etc.

[@theevilmonkeyemail]

Did you lose weight bruv? Looking good 👍

[@samjones4327]

Hey what's up Dr. Webb! Hope all is great with you! Thank you very much for this video! I learned some great tips from you and Mr. Ramsey. I just finished paying off my student loans a couple years ago, I didn't have the amount that the gentleman in question did, but none the less it was loan debt! It took me almost 20 years to pay it all off because of interest and finding out that what I was paying was going to interest instead of the principle was killing me and I did not know this was happening until I got a financial expert to educate me! So it's really important to know where your payments are going as well and I thank you so much for showcasing this very important topic!! As always, be well , be safe and blessed sir! And I noticed your Top Doctor for 2022 award plaque on the wall, I hope to see one for 2023 soon! Peace & Blessings!