Reaction Time and Online Play in Dragonball FighterZ

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hi guys i hope u like my first reaction video
Gonna address some boring points here that I didn't bring up in the video as explaining them just wouldn't be interesting:
-Yes, I'm aware that for reaction time, i refer to reacting in a fighting game as what a reaction PUNISH is, and that reacting to something is technically just perceiving it. Semantically, it's wonky but I thought it the best way to explain it to people who might not play this game.
-The study referenced does not account for the fact that the subjects had to move there hands onto the button, when on a controller this isn't really as big of a time factor. Still, choice reaction time is definitely way slower.
Music:
1. Incoming!!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2
2. Gormott - Xenoblade Chronicles 2
3. Mor Ardain - Xenoblade Chronicles 2
4. Combat Theme 2 (Exploration) - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (with me adding a slap bass solo)
Here's the Study referenced in the video.
www.hindawi.com/journals/nri/...
Here's the article responsible for accurate explanation of Rollback
ki.infil.net/w02-netcode.html
#metoo

[@MoldyBagel]

New Bespoke Post subscribers get 20% off their first box - go to bespokepost.com/moldy20 and enter code MOLDY20 at checkout. Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring!

[@Fnalix]

Hi

[@theblueguyiii3991]

Hai

[@hehe-nb3pz]

Father buy me dbfz for ps4 and I will swear my eternal support for any and everything except financially I'm broke

[@rickrolled3666]

Yo 🔥kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWtapWpg5x9d9k

[@MoBallin]

Thank you for making my Day

[@CreativeChoroos]

The fact you went a step further to ANIMATE examples of rollback and delay-based netcode, only knowing what it looks like in game, and perfectly recreating it for entertainment purposes, is immaculate. keep up the good work

[@MoldyBagel]

it was hard thanks

[@Lythero]

another excellent video. Thanks for addressing the unfortunate problems that would come with rollback. You're more brave than I am cause I know which i'd prefer to have and i fear mentioning the cons would dissuade people from the benefit/tradeoff we get

[@chillinjesus1013]

*You're more brave than I am cause I know which i'd prefer to have and i fear mentioning the cons would dissuade people from the benefit/tradeoff we get* Haha, I get that feeling in general when I'm talking to people lol.

[@TheParadoxCreator]

It's awesome to see you here man! This is definitely a channel that deserves some love!

[@darkmodeenjoyer3367]

As a wise man said "No one can lab cox"

[@Johten]

Yea....... Nah Rollbacks benefit far outweighs it's drawback

[@leithaziz2716]

As someone who's played some of the Rollback games mentioned at the end with high momentum (GG Strive and +R), well implemented Rollback still outweighs Delay Based by a mile even with its drawbacks. I'm not saying it's easy to do properly, but it's been done enough times by now. The most logical approach is to make a DBFZ2 and work on coding the netcode from there. That makes things much easier than having to recode everything.

[@vmfighter-ryze]

Bagel back at it again providing information in a clear way so that even non fighting game people could understand it, great work as always homie

[@rickrolled3666]

Yo 🔥kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWtapWpg5x9d9k

[@nas1002]

Fuck all that do you even see the edits

[@scotteous]

Agreed! I normally don’t care/don’t understand this stuff, but when Bagel puts out a video I end up interested and feeling like I actually get it. Love this content!

[@wildeyedduck]

If this is the goal, then he has surely achieved it

[@SebastianAPadilla]

Exactlyyyyy

[@YourIdeologyIsDelusional]

Let me stress something: As someone who's played both Guilty Gear Strive and Skullgirls, both being games that have movement options and gameplay fast enough to stress rollback, I can say from experience that the rollback implementation in these games is still absolutely smooth the vast majority of time. Rollback is like night and day for fighting games, it's so dramatically better than delay only based netcode that it becomes hard to play fighting games without it after you experience it. At anything up to about 100-150 ping it's basically like playing offline.

[@MoldyBagel]

yeah hence me saying it's still worth it: the drawback is not even comparable from what you gain from rollback.

[@gingeysnap2090]

@@MoldyBagel The question is though: will Bamco give the green light? Arcsys may want to give it, but will Bamco let them?

[@Curseco]

You're wrong

[@purpleipecac5875]

@@gingeysnap2090 I feel like we'll know by Evo

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

@@gingeysnap2090 🅱️amco (?)

[@OhioPiece]

I will NOT overlook the fact that Gohan called 21 mommy when she stepped on him. You’ve gone too far this time Bagel

[@MoldyBagel]

HEHEHEHHEHEHEE

[@Gabry_deleto_blue]

Lol, I didn't even heard that

[@rickrolled3666]

Yo 🔥kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWtapWpg5x9d9k

[@CyanicCore]

Yeah, that caused some lasting pain

[@saidgamez945]

U didn’t have to remind us😭

[@chenchestarze8207]

“Who would watch a video essay at midnight?” O H B O Y, MOLDYBAGEL UPLOADED

[@MoldyBagel]

mfw when i forget to upload the video eariler

[@judarowell9227]

Same

[@felixc.4294]

Wake up babe

[@tabhou7988]

wouldn't have it any other way

[@rickrolled3666]

Yo 🔥kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWtapWpg5x9d9k

[@crackersandpie136]

That intro is fucking incredible and sums up the dbfz experience perfectly.

[@shade7728]

I wheezed XD

[@lizbethian]

I’m not gonna say Bagel is the reason we have rollback now. but he is.

[@liveandletdie138]

its not in yet tho, right?

[@Chris_HT]

@@liveandletdie138 FUCK, RIGHT?

[@luigiplayer14]

“now”?

[@lizbethian]

@@luigiplayer14 it was been a wholeass year and smartasses STILL coming in to comment, that’s crazy

[@tartarsauce65]

@@lizbethian I got you. "now"? Seriously though, why the fuck did they even bother announcing it at this point

[@writinggoose6059]

The rollback demonstrations for DBFZ are both incredibly well done and made me chuckle in how it portrayed Krillin as an unstoppable force KO- "nope. die"

[@mr.unp3rf3ct58]

I like how a week later they announced they're adding rollback to DBFZ. Crazy.. It's almost like.. He knew.. It was coming..👀

[@GenericName0042]

I didn't even see this vid till today lol, I was like "wait but they just announced it!"

[@superheriber27]

When are they adding it?

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@superheriber27 Soon™.

[@brawlstar1748]

@@LloydTheZephyrian is it here yet?

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@brawlstar1748 No..

[@Entei9000]

When it comes to netcode, I think I'm more frustrated by dropping combos that I could normally pull off perfectly, than getting hit by attacks that I normally could've reacted to. Also the fact that there's an in game feature to increase input delay for practice, just to prepare for laggy online kills me a little inside.

[@MoldyBagel]

yeah it's so sad to have to arbitrarily raise your delay in training mode lol

[@gogelebrero7335]

this is really interesting. i "trained" my reaction speed to multiple stimulus a lot since i first started playing dbfz and other games, like for honor(400ms lights were cool) thinking i would make a objectively better player. i realised how much its better to actually play the game and really learn the fundamentals and especially just learn to read the oponent than train those "off game" habilites

[@MoldyBagel]

big facts, also shout out to for honor i loved that game (and still do)

[@bevvvy1374]

For Honor is neat at the beginning and middle stages but it's just legitimately exhausting to play once you know everything. Having the game be entirely based on mix-ups while having such fast attacks(almost nothing you could do if lag), just leads to everything feeling samey after a while. Especially because of how simple characters are

[@Kinma15]

Playing will always be better. People don't always admit it but Ranked and Versus mode are also practice modes. The real fight will always be in organized competition from a bet between pals to the world tournaments

[@megabumbusta2746]

@@bevvvy1374 imagine getting Android 21 level 3 mix after every single light attack except you have to block mid high and low separately that's what playing for honor feels like

[@chadwyckmarte1061]

Getting GM in For Honor genuinely made me a reaction monster in Marvel/DBFZ lmao that game is something special

[@NonRandomUser]

5:45 "Your son calls me 'Mommy', too" but it's 100% literal.

[@deletoblue6063]

“But us gamers are restricted by our humanity.” Moldy, you have no idea how much I laughed at that line alone.

[@Kitsune986]

I wasn't expecting this topic, but I found it interesting and I really, _really_ appreciate you explaining a little bit of why rollback would be harder to implement in DBFZ. Most people seem to think it's as simple as just plopping it in, but no. Not even close. You are essentially taking delay based netcode, digging it up, and replacing it with an entirely different, made from scratch netcode. Coding is fucking hard. I can't stress that enough. While I'd love if we got rollback in this version of DBFZ, I genuinely believe it would be easier just to make a DBFZ 2 with rollback than trying to retrofit it. Edit: This edit is a week after writing this comment. We got rollback, lol. Only for next gen and PC, but we got it. I mean, it's still going to be hard to retrofit, but I'm really happy our only hope isn't a sequel anymore

[@Axonn1018]

Before the older Arcsys titles that got rollback added in, MKX was the only example I could recall that actually did get that rework. Even then that's still a rare case since NRS had the backing of WB Games to help with that.

[@Goku3001000]

I do agree in everything you said, just wanted to say that normally adding rollback it's not replacing the netcode , just more so changing it, because most if not all the time Rollback magic it's best of both worlds, you implement rollback with delay netcode (normally fixed delay or you can change it in some games ex: Skullgirls or MBTL) so the extra frames of delay make less rollbacks occur.

[@Prikense]

Tell that to guilty gear +R

[@wakkaseta8351]

The answer seems pretty obvious. Dragonball FighterZ Extend

[@djidane748]

this comment not aged very well

[@yukineelpis8703]

When Bagel posts a video about rollback is the moment they knew they HAD to implement it thanks bagel for giving us the rollback netcode we needed

[@ArcadeStriker]

> "hey guys rollback in DBFZ is hard so don't beg the devs for it so much" > EVO 2022: "hey guys so uhh we're putting rollback in DBFZ" my dude you literally made the impossible and dared Bamco to actually put rollback in this damn game holy shit

[@noahpokeemon6503]

Rollback talk aged great lol

[@Soni38900]

I think 90% of the people who watch these videos aren't even in a high level of play (Like me) and just enjoy learning things about the game. Hearing about tiny little features in games is amazing.

[@roach1898]

Heck, I don't even play the game but I just love watching these video lol

[@Chicken-Rice]

Yes, im the guy that keeps getting clapped in online and is trying to defend himself

[@Zusk0]

I don't even own this game, I just find the talk about game design really interesting!

[@meowforjasper2838]

Careful everyone. We got a 10% watcher who is a high level player.

[@axmendez1999]

High ranks don't mean anything tbh if you play long enough you'll reach zen-oh

[@mikewazowski5173]

This has aged very well.

[@KazamaJones]

Yo the editing in your videos are great bro!

[@MoldyBagel]

thanks!

[@rickrolled3666]

Yo 🔥kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWtapWpg5x9d9k

[@impact-on_latte4611]

It's always has been *glocking* ...

[@dustin202]

@@rickrolled3666 Delete

[@ZaPyr0]

I love how almost every time MoldyBagel makes a video on something in DBFZ it like changes the next day.

[@uninformed2167]

And just like that Our prayers for rollback have been answered

[@thecatastrophe132]

Immediately coming here after seeing the announcement to say thank you for complaining

[@ShibuNub3305]

NO MORE DELAY BASED FUNK FELLAS LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@nunyabissness1]

I'm a krillin main, I have to deal with those damn grab options everyday and that Krillin lab skit extremely relatable 😭

[@hassanmahdi5521]

They just announced Rollback at Evo, even though there won't be any new characters I feel like this will give new life back to DBFZ

[@MrMariosonicman]

I always heard about how rollback would be better, but I just never understood how exacly it helps or what changes. This video going over the pros and cons of rollback and how it works made me understand so much more then ever. Thank you for being a great teacher.

[@sptflcrw8583]

"If somebody could react to anything instantly, they would never get hit in a fighting game." Laughs in shine.

[@MoldyBagel]

i hate shine so much

[@zachstarattack7320]

@@MoldyBagel I love shine so much

[@leoleo4469]

man, melee is what happens when the devs don't consider what happens when people actually start finding stuff out

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@leoleo4469 and it's glorious

[@dorkass.]

This is a certified pre-rollback classic.

[@aqgpandemic5406]

Melee having high quality online rollback netcode, and match making is still one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen a community do. Like it boggles my mind how one guy was able to pull that off

[@wolfhead-hx2mn]

Yea have that guy in the background working on fighterz internet while bandai rolls out updates and by the end of it we can have good internet.

[@zoruafox7512]

One guy> every person who has ever worked for Nintendo on their online

[@ShibuNub3305]

Meanwhile, in Smash Ultimate land, we have to pay for servers powered by gerbils and maintained by arkham inmates

[@functional200]

Your timing on releasing this was insane

[@captainnomekop5056]

Well they must be from Freeza Planet 419, because *THEY CAN SEE THE FUTUUURRRE*

[@NiiRubra]

An additional obstacle for the implementation of rollback in DBFZ is Bandai Namco, I don't doubt that ArcSys would be interested in doing that, but the decision making regarding budget allocation in this case falls on Bamco, and it would be kinda hard to convince the suits to invest into rollback for the good of the game's community, they would dismiss it as unnecessary, since the game was successful as is. The games listed are ArcSys' own babies, so that's rollback implementation that they are doing on their own, at their own cost, because they care, DBFZ is a different beast. If you ask me, we are only going to get rollback when we get to DBFZ 2, because then they have the opportunity to develop the game from the ground up, of course, and they can work that into it from the start, instead of retrofitting it into a game that would have all of these challenges. But who knows, maybe someday DBFZ will get rollback like all of those other games did, if someone manages to make a pitch that is compelling enough to some exec.

[@Neoxon619]

Persona 4 Arena Ultimax is also getting rollback, so that’s something.

[@HappyMasroor]

Like thats ever gonna happen! -Shrek

[@zero123alpha6]

@@Neoxon619 When?

[@Neoxon619]

@@zero123alpha6 Sometime this summer

[@vivalagamb7034]

Honestly it feels like Bandai Namco is really the only real obstacle at this point for that.

[@PsytheZero]

"why doesnt fighterz have roll-back" aged like milk :D

[@toastedslash6556]

thank you for giving us rollback, o, mighty moldybagel

[@personguy2262]

Why are so many of your videos set to Private, what’s going on?

[@jemo7520]

Don’t really play much fighterZ but these edits and videos are a treat to watch as always, great work as usual

[@Pompadour_Pug]

The idea of existing in the world of DBZ and just before Goku unleashes the wrath of the cosmos itself upon you there's lag forcing you to stare at how much he's about to kick your arse? That's an existential hell on a whole new level

[@Dasaltwarrior]

Timing of this vid was something, could not have been better lmao

[@BBlader]

WHO’S HERE FROM THE ROLLBACK NETCODE ANNOUNCEMENT?! Really perfectly timed video!

[@Sceppyo]

Anyone else find it a strange "coincidence" that right after Bagel releases the video evo happens and they announce rollback for dbfz?

[@zizzlePop]

WE'RE GETTING ROLLBACK BOI

[@Veledan]

Damn, Bagel your videos are bangers every time. Incredibly informative, entertaining as hell, and the way you have characters from the game placed in comical scenes to demonstrate a point each time is just phenomenal, and looks so natural. You're my go-to DBFZ channel on KZbin!

[@MoldyBagel]

:)

[@d4rkz3r011]

Watching this after the rollback announcement makes this even more exciting! I'm sure Arc System Works will implement great rollback but I'm curious to see how much more alive the game will be when rollback comes out!

[@MUGENanaya]

THE FUCKING PROPHET

[@aramdominsect895]

Dam bro there are people playing in the amazon rainforest 💀

[@MoldyBagel]

The real ones

[@obryanmeli2887]

Well, guess your wish has been granted.

[@AgelessObsession]

I really appreciate that you didn't just go for the 'rollback is perfect with no drawbacks and Japan doesn't use it because Not Developed Here' argument a lot of people use. Acknowledging that rollback takes work to implement and can be affected by a lot of game design choices is really important if we want devs to get it right.

[@zacarnold2970]

WE DID IT BOIS, WE GOT THE ROLLBACK

[@qxpn9220]

Bro I was literally about to cry like a lil bitch. Playing since 2018 with 3-5 delay and love the hell out of this game. Still feels so surreal to me. The connection was already some what decent when you and your opponent were playing with cable. Now, just imagine now….

[@FistofSpirit]

I swear MoldyBagel works at Bandai and Arcsys. First A21 getting patched the same week as your video, and now this!

[@randomindividual769]

i can only imagine in a parallel universe where you waited one week to release this and then had to absolutely throw it in the trash because of it

[@shyguykingandco1304]

Fucking predicted it 1 week before.

[@javonenzor7267]

YOU CALLED IT 7 DAYS BEFORE IT HAPPENED

[@TheFakeSlimShady0]

My man MoldyBagel saw into the future for the Dbfz community and made a video for us 😊

[@ironboy89]

Friendly reminder that MVCI had the best rollback implementation that Capcom has ever made in a fighter.

[@radicalpokemaniacs]

Loving the XC2 OST usage! I love that game so much, also great job on the video

[@danielpierre4684]

Well this aged well, hasn't it?

[@topocart4753]

You did it, Moldy! You fixed DBFZ!

[@lilsoonerfaninmo]

I think the camera thing is playing its part in making the Rollback update take longer than it would be otherwise ......also, personal thing, BBTAG FINALLY GETS RECOGNITION ON THIS GOATED CHANNEL, LES GOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@kaptainkibiroproductions45]

well this certainly aged like wine didn't it?

[@mohamedtoujani7405]

gotta respect the time took you to make this 2:16

[@vogonpoet9206]

Well…we won. And it’s all thanks to you, MoldyBagel

[@ragerasse7616]

Thank you for making this video! I always thought it was weird how people would claim that they could react to really fast things even though it doesn't seem possible at all. This explained it perfectly!

[@MoldyBagel]

yeah you can tell that shit would get on my nerves LOL

[@harrybalsac8279]

This is a trailer made by bandai. There is no way rollback was announced a week after this, I refuse to believe otherwise.

[@vakapont]

this vid was a trailer in disguise, wasn't it

[@tonycooler3445]

Yes

[@okayatbest6289]

Living in 19 frames like Doto

[@ryanmackay216]

7 days later we get the announcement of rollback netcode 😁

[@DJDizzy8]

This video may explain capcom's reasoning behind Street Fighter 6 drive system using a splash of colors. Because it's easier and faster to recognize color over animation.

[@Gabry_deleto_blue]

I never suffered for something that explain so well the pain that I went through after 1,7k of hours on Switch and why I want rollback, I even buyed the Lan hoping that it would have fixed the issue(actually I helps with lag, but only when I play with people near me, so it's not doing much

[@deoxysandmew2162]

Yeah you're right on the money. I have bought LAN Adapter so that MAYBE, just maybe I would be able to play like offline at the very least, but nope. My Wifi was so good, that Lan Adapter did LITERALLY nothing! No amount of input lag changed, and sometimes its even worse, like how the hell?! It really pains me... Where you play the game and the input lag makes you look like a toddler playing with no finesse.

[@ChronoTau]

the song transition at 7:04 was actually so clean god damn

[@MoldyBagel]

glad you liked it, that transition actually took a large amount of tinkering to not sound weird

[@xTrashPandax]

This video and it's rollback netcode section was a premonition.

[@Zarkator]

this is the greatest single video to explain every aspect of fighting game reaction and online mechanics, there were even some things I hadnt considered myself, like instant screen changes making rollback less effective

[@skildfrix]

the intro is a certified PLDT classic

[@fireballgx5]

Dragon ball fighterz team :so i heard you we're talking sh*t

[@irisstarsterio8960]

Your videos singlehandedly convinced me to try and play this game seriously, they're super informative while also being well edited and entertaining. Thank you for the content.

[@drainkerjoestar6885]

Dude literally you give me the answer i was searching for years in this game, i really thought i was only bad reactioning in the battles, thanks ❤️

[@lmChills]

We did it, we won. MoldyBagel summoned rollback to FighterZ

I've never played an online fighting game in my life and I'm still hooked to your video. You have insane skills man

[@hhaei]

this is possibly the most eloquent 'bro i was lagging' ive ever seen

[@TanatatKnight246]

I was just rewatching some of the older videos only to be notified of a new upload. Thank you for your work!

[@ShinyGBZ]

MY MAN A GODDAMN PROPHET!!!

[@thenewmeta5139]

1 week later we get rollback announced XD

[@goozilla132]

Gohan continues to be my spirit animal. Which is fair because I also peaked at 10 years old.

[@HoraceKock]

thank you for making this, i’ve been trying to get my friends into high pace fighters and DBFZ has been a huge gate for that so this vid is gonna help that hype train keep chugging

[@Aarondacollector]

WE JUST GOT ROLLBACK CONFIRMED BABY

[@maurovazquez7043]

I wasn't expecting another video from you so soon but I'm pleasantly surprised. Your editing is incredible, keep up the good work.

[@bonsaibnuuy]

i always wondered what rollback actually did! i knew it felt good to do but i never actually understood it, thanks for the explanation!

[@darksideblader2741]

I loved the xenoblade vision that you did to simulate the rollback. I love both of these games, xenoblade and DBFZ

[@TheCooldog]

*BOY DID THIS AGE WELL*

[@esnevip]

Fantastic breakdown. Genuinely informative and hilarious.

[@namor1513]

9:17 , i love how he used that as a show to how lag looks but tbh thats how broly command grabs look normally to me

[@leoleo4469]

good, that means rollback just won't affect you

[@mr.incognito1781]

"SOMEBODY KICKED THE ROUTER" - Lythero

[@TrectBL]

Man, this video aged well with recent news

[@Hiest-420]

What happened to your older uploads? I'm trying to find your videos but your channel is desolate now lmao.

[@Maxxo_Dwolf]

At this point i consider you my FightersZ teacher with how entertaining and informative these videos are 😭😭😭✨

[@normalguycap]

Prepare for this video to be reference in countless online arguments from now on. I know I'm grateful for it.

[@ajin5381]

this man is an ArcSys spy and you won't convince me otherwise

[@MichaelBlock]

I've heard of rollback netcode several times but never actually looked it up to understand WHAT it was, it definitely would be a big plus to DBFZ, just only a little challenging to implement properly since as you've said in the video, the game has so many unique aspects (teleports, animations, etc), but I'd definitely like to see it be implemented in the game, not only is the varying latency annoying, but some fights are so bad its like the match is in slow mo, and then get into raid fights and that's a whole mess depending on your team

[@M.Streamery]

I absolutely adore this channel as mucb as I do FighterZ itself. It's always a treat to see a new video notif, it's very enjoyable to learn about mechanics or characters in depth.

[@MoldyBagel]

thanks :)