Reaction to The Lies Behind Judo Basics | The Shintaro Higashi Show

[@HanpanTV]

Hey, this is Cho Junho (66kg) from HanpanTV. Thanks for making the response video! Your overall vibe is so positive, just like I’d expect from someone as open-minded as you. And I accept your challenge of randori! Stop by our Dojo in Gangnam anytime. Just give me a heads-up so I can warm up first. I’ll show you that 66kg is the weight of a true man. Now, about why we make our videos, it’s not to tear anyone down-it’s to kickstart a kind of academic discussion in the Judo world. Sure, we might come off a little aggressive at times, but open debates and thorough testing among Judo practitioners are absolutely necessary. Why? Because untested theories can lead to injuries or wasted time when subscribers/students try to follow them. And when it comes to athlete safety, too much creativity often equals more injuries (I’ve learned this the hard way and have had my share of injuries). We need to agree on standardized training methods and teach them properly to protect everyone. Here’s the thing: Other fields are way more ruthless-they debate, challenge, and constantly refine their theories. So why is Judo the one clinging to traditions like it’s untouchable? That’s why we’re stepping up, and we're happy you joined our debate about this. Let’s keep evolving and bring Judo into the mainstream. More than football, as you've mentioned in your other podcast! Anyway, contact us at : [e-mail] P.S. Shoutout to Peter Yu for loving our content! And props to our translator for absolutely nailing the line, “Bro, Shintaro will come and teach you real judo!” No need for honorifics 😂 (* 역자 : 얌마들아 내가 직접 가서 한수 가르쳐주마 라고 번역했습니다, 피터박사님^^ㅎㅎ) - Junho & Junhyun: The 132kg twins once combined -

[@adrianarroyo937]

Awesome response! I really liked your line of reasoning and your video! Keep it up! 👏🏻 PS: Chadi, another famous judo KZbinr in English also made a response to your video, but I think his response has less merit. Maybe you would like to address it too? Or maybe you have already done it since I watched it 😅

[@simbabwe2907]

@@adrianarroyo937 chadi is to be ignored.

[@태화루]

항상 유도계에 좋은 영향을 주시네요

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@adrianarroyo937 Its not worth addressing really.

[@counterhit121]

"show you that 66kg is the weight of a real man" Lmaoooo 👑 🙏

[@HahnJames]

An old sensei once said to me, "There are 67 throws in judo and there are about 67 different ways to do each throw."

[@marks5835]

Respectfully I think your shadowboxing analogy is not correct. The way you explain it is how you're MEANT to do it in an actual boxing match. But due to fatigue etc. it falls away. In traditional ukikomi its not even the ideal way to throw.

[@Karinusuki]

Like fr

[@TheNEOverse]

This is exactly right. Judo Uchi-Komi applied to boxing is like if you told boxers to punch Karate style or something, deliberately exaggerating the stance, hips and guard motion... because you want to generate max power or something bullshit.

[@BlackBeltBoxing]

T-shirt slogan should read “does it mata?” With a picture of you doing traditional uchi mata. Lol

[@SkyreeXScalabar]

or "Will it -Mata?"

[@JudoGeoff]

I'd endorse this 👏

[@retroghidora6767]

The main point in that video that really struck me was the consistency between what high level competitors do today AND the way uchi mata was BEING taught in the past. No big pull up in either case. So why is the pull up considered the traditional OR basic form of the technique today? Seems like something is really off here.

[@genius_7152]

I feel the same way. No one seems to have a clear answer. 'We just do it because it's they way it's been done.' was all I got.

[@jasonrose6288]

My late sensei would say you practice the perfect version of a throw. In competition you might only reproduce 60% of your ideal. If you practice a poor version of a throw, under pressure you will produce 60% of 30% kind of idea.

[@adrianarroyo937]

​@@jasonrose6288 I'm guessing you didn't watch the original video. Or did you watch it and thought that Kano and Mifune were practicing a "poor version of a throw"?

[@genius_7152]

Big fan of both Shintaro Higashi and HanpanTV! I really hope you two can meet someday! I’ll be the on-site interpreter if you come to korea!

[@jakubwianecki3706]

"60 kilos that's not a mans weight" XD Died looool

[@wclay]

If it’s just a teaching tool, then why shouldn’t we just abandon this drill once we can do Uchimata in randori? Hardly anyone lift their elbows above their shoulder in competition Uchimata (like doing a lateral raise). It’s not even clear to me that they attempt but fail to raise it above their shoulder due to Uke’s resistance. And as HanpanTV points out in Mifune’s video, when he shows the 8-directions Kuzushi, there is no exaggerated raising arm motion. There is no obvious reason why pulling upwards is necessary, Also, if Harasawa, an Uchimata expert, says they are different motions, I am more than inclined to believe him. Btw, this is not a new issue. Osotogari is another glaring example. Decades ago people already notice that competitive Osotogari is very different set of motion compared to uchikomi Osotogari.

[@johannesandersson9477]

I also don’t understand why the teaching tool should be so different from the actual practical application. If that’s the case then I think it’s super important that the coach makes sure to let all the students know this. I started BJJ and judo at the same time about 20 years ago. Stayed with judo about 5 years before moving to a different city. Looking back at my judo days I have this feeling like I was lied to as to how the mechanics are “supposed” to work compared to how top practitioners actually make them work. The club I was at produces some international level competitors every now and then so it’s not like it sucks but the “basics” I was taught by the teachers of the beginner classes don’t seem actually realistic. There has been, and to some extent still is, some similar issues in BJJ but I think BJJ as a whole has done a better job at moving away from dysfunctional basics and adjusting.

[@wclay]

@@johannesandersson9477 The simple but certainly not complete explanation is deference and respect to tradition and past masters common to many Eastern martial arts.

[@kwanarchive]

As they explain in the video, the pulling upwards is necessary because the opponent is usually pulling downwards. Pulling upwards is about the direction of the force, not about the eventual position of the arms. The arms can barely move, but that's because the pull upwards negates the pull downwards. If you don't pull upwards, the opponent sinks down and you can't move them at all.

[@terrykim2748]

@@kwanarchivethis would make sense but ONLY if the uke was actually pulling their arms down during the uchi komi to give realistic resistance. But the problem is they don’t, so instead of applying upward pull to a downward arm to get an overall down-diagonal pull like you would in randori, you get upward pull to a still-arm to get an overall upward-diagonal pull, and THAT is the problem. You’re applying solution to a situation without recreating the situation, and as a result, your end result of the training ends up not resembling your actual execution. Tons of beginner judokas get confused by this bc they try to do the upward pull during randori, and uh oh they can’t but this thought never crossed their mind bc the uke never applied resistance during training. So they constantly try to pull upwards during randori bc in their mind, the end result of pulling the arm up IS how you’re supposed to end up when executing uchi mata, and they get confused when they realize they simply can’t recreate that image and take forever to learn uchi mata. You never run into this issue in wrestling btw. This is a judo-specific situation that really needs to be fixed.

[@kwanarchive]

@@terrykim2748 But the instructor should have already told them to expect the uke to be pulling down in actual situation. Tori should also know this, really, because they would reflexively pull down in an actual situation. And it all comes out in randori anyway, which is supposed to be the primary training method. In the end, this is supposed to be a martial art, not a performance, so everyone should naturally understand that it is about the forces being applied, rather than about getting the exact pose.

[@syn3rgyz]

you totally missed the point they made which is this "learning tool" is a waste of time and worst case scenario causes permanent injury to those who try to use this "learning tool" in randori over long periods of time.

[@terrykim2748]

Yup. This point is flying over soooo many butthurt judokas. Such a shame cos judokas preach about this pursuit of knowledge and being humble all the time but once they’re at end of criticism, it’s all ego.

[@ddas8554]

You should discuss this with HanpanTV or do a show with him on that

[@vasa2681]

Look at the way they teach us Osoto, never works.

[@64wy4x8s]

Did Shintaro even watch the video, or is he just reacting to what other 3rd parties have told him the HanpanTV said about him? Because from the looks of what Shintaro said in the first half of this video, I don't think he actually watched the HanpanTV video. He was attacking a strawman here. Cho Junhyun and Cho Junho from HanpanTV are not saying that Shintaro's uchimata is bad, they're saying that Shintaro's method of teaching uchimata is bad. Shintaro teaches it 1 way, but he performs it completely differently in randori. It's this disconnect that HanpanTV was criticizing.

[@kwanarchive]

Did you watch THIS video? Because Shintaro says he teaches uchimata multiple different ways also. He doesn't teach it "1 way". He teaches it many ways.

[@adrianarroyo937]

@@kwanarchive The problem is, in some of the ways Shintaro teaches uchimata, he has the lifting motion that Hanpan is criticizing, but that motion doesn't happen in actual randori

[@kwanarchive]

@@adrianarroyo937 The lifiting motion is not part of the uchimata. It's just the kuzushi. It happens in randori. Just like all the other ways to achieve kuzushi.

[@sway71]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the downward pull is part of the execution not kuzushi. Kuzushi can be done many different ways since it's just to get the person in a compromised position for entry. The entry is to get that upper body and hip contact (which is what I feel the uchi komi is designed for). Uchi komi is a good exercise for footwork and shooting the hip across, just like using a jump rope is good for cardio and footwork

[@adrianarroyo937]

Then why in competition top players don't generate kuzushi by that lifting method in particular? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for the kuzushi in uchikomis to mimic at least one of the methods that work for sure against the best judokas?

[@sway71]

@@adrianarroyo937 Yeah, I think that's another misconception. I don't think there's such thing as a "lifting kuzushi". The "lifting" is more a movement that forces you to close the distance between your body and the opponent's. I think this supports the idea that this is good as a learning exercise or warm up, but shouldn't be used as an example of what the throw looks like in real application. It's easy to dismiss it offhand, but it makes more sense if you think from the perspective of an instructor who needs the quickest way to get their students used to fundamental aspects of Judo. I learned the opposite way, where I was taught very practical methods and the principles behind them, but it took me a while before I understood that I wasn't entering deeply enough or that I didn't have the right upper body contact despite having good kuzushi, footwork, etc. I think I would have benefited from at least a few weeks of an exercise like uchi komi, assuming my instructor explained the difference between the exercise and application :)

[@ibaryabaq9197]

"60kg, thats not a man's weight"....bars lmao, this guy is pure comedy.

[@YimingCai]

'66kg is not a men's weight'. Me at 58 😮

[@hoxtongood]

He was joking man

[@mdimwit2780]

I think people get confused with the term ‘basics’. Many of the ‘basic’ judo (and other martial arts/sports) are very advanced biomechanical techniques. Nobody that I have come across in the martial community (except one or two coaches in boxing) teaches true basics of biomechanics that make being scored on hard and scoring easy. People get tied to the steps when they should be thinking about the process. The fundamentals are in the process not the steps.

[@pignokor5536]

he used your clip because yours easiest to find, its a compliment actually

[@RadicalTrivia]

Hey I was just at Inverted Gear with Nelson for the Priit seminar, we should try to come out for yours - I train in Pittsburgh with Ekaterina! 😄

[@RadicalTrivia]

PS - when is it?

[@ktkl68]

Why so bitter? Hanpan’s video was meant as constructive criticism to encourage open dialogue and discussion, not as a personal attack. There’s no need for passive-aggressive comments like “60kg is no man’s weight” or mentioning your seminars etc etc. Take it easy. Also, Hanpan is an Olympic medalist, not just a hobbyist throwing random opinions your way or attacking you personally.

[@BullDykee]

😂 My God people are so soft, they are clearly ribbing each other. I'm sure neither of themis mad nor took anything to heart. They are both competitors and teachers of Judo at the highest level so Im sure they respect the opinion of each other too.

[@VoiceForGoood]

Dear Sir, If a child born with out his left hand's five fingers, could he still learn judo? Thanks

[@mightiestentertainment9069]

Where can I learn more no gi judo?

[@YoutubeCommenter1]

This reaction is much better than the one chadi did. chadi needs to stop pretending to be an authority on judo, considering his low level

[@bolieve603]

Chadi is a judo historian. His perspective was a historian's perspective.

[@retroghidora6767]

Some of what Chadi said overlapped with things Shintaro said here.

[@YoutubeCommenter1]

@@bolieve603 And the video was from the perspective of improving the technical level of the sport, and innovating teaching methods. chadi need not insert himself in that discussion

[@nickelmanful]

​@KZbinCommenter1 you're just a commenter on KZbin why are talking about judo

[@wclay]

Does Chadi even have proper training as a historian or even a translator? Anyone can self-publish nowadays…

[@johnnylawrence9329]

Big fan of you until you started to question the credentials of the Korean guys and weight shaming them in an attempt to protect your ego. If they're right (and they are) just change that one little thing in every variant of uchi mata back to how it was in the old days and you're done.

[@genius_7152]

It's obviously a joke 😂

[@johnnylawrence9329]

@genius_7152 For those who only notice the very obvious, yes it is a joke. As a first reaction this is just normal 1. who even is this guy? 2. yeah but it is out of context, 3. yeah but we have variations, this is just one, 4. yeah but we focus more on footwork, 5. yeah okay, he has a point. Up until then they're very normal human responses. Everybody needs to go through them to accept change. But then, a very disappointing conclusion: Yeah but I'm bigger and he can't beat me so I'm not changing and I laugh it away. So tell me, which judo principle is that?

[@jasonkoushka]

no one did to the judo community as sensei shintaro did, countless free tutorials, seminars and dojo. Sensei doing so much to the judo community than any of the Olympic champions did. Olympic play style is good. but building future of the judo while encouraging people to start judo is most important aspect for the sustainability of the judo as a sport.

[@TheNEOverse]

The problem with Judo is its high learning curve. The twins wish to spread a better way to teach the basics so as to improve retention and reduce injury. Higashi has done much to spread Judo, but lets not discount Hanpan.

[@BillySoundFarm]

😂 he said, "that's not a man's weight" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Lambert06Pasquale06]

You have a great attitude towards this clip.

[@eiichiyakamoto840]

I have never seen the other guy on the Mat 😂

[@CloudparkCreation]

As a HanpanTV follower I think they are trying to get "Agro" lol and get some of your followers to watch them

[@renzotkac1236]

chill bro, they aren't doing that for fame nor attacking shintaro ( their channel is too small to gain any good money from youtube ) they just really want people to be better at judo, that's all

[@CloudparkCreation]

@ Thanks, I’m chill lol. I meant to say they’re encouraging people to watch their videos to support a better Judo community. These two channels are my favorites. Nothing negative. Have a good one 👍

[@PaulGengeCombatLab]

😂😂😂 nice bite.

[@KingOfSwords720]

60kg isn't a real man's weight, and Peter is in the vid 😂 This was a good one. People are watching 🫡

[@sokarra]

Do reaction on video of some guy talking about why "judo kinda sucks"

[@Yupppi]

It was almost entirely clout chasing. The way to use somewhat popular creators, only criticise them and in the end not bringing any value or useful thoughts to the viewer. Ideally creators like that die out from lack of interaction and views, but it worked like a charm. Just about everyone picked it up and commented on it.

[@64wy4x8s]

Are you seriously implying that Cho Junho, an Olympic bronze medallist and World Championships bronze medallist is somehow chasing clout by including Shintaro as an example in a video where Cho was making a wider point about teaching methods? Get out of here.

[@BullDykee]

​@@64wy4x8s😂 Seriously.... These two are clearly just trading barbs and ribbing each other. It's a freaking open debate between two extremely high level athletic competitors, of course it's going to see aggro sometimes but it's truly not that serious. I'm sure neither of them are actually bothered and they probably have a lot of respect for each others opinion regardless if they disagree. Some people seriously need to unplug from the Internet every once in awhile, they start seeing everything in life through the lense of internet "content" when most of the time it isn't even like that.