"The Ugly Duchess" Portrait Model or Satirical Fiction?

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For three generations, the Massys family contributed their skills and efforts to the flourishing field of northern European art.
Today, were hopping back to near the start of the sixteenth century to look a piece by Quentin Messys painted in around 1513 and it carries the title “An Old Woman” or “The Ugly Duchess”…
The Ugly Duchess: Beauty and Satire in the Renaissance (16 March - 11 June 2023): www.nationalga...
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
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Linked videos and playlists:
Shaping Elizabeth I: Virgin and Goddess: • Shaping Elizabeth I: V...
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
”The Ugly Duchess” by Quinten Metsys (c. 1513). Held by the National Gallery.
The Sieve Portrait of Queen Elizabeth I by Quentin Metsys the Younger (1583). Held by the Pinacoteca Nazionale
Detail of: Queen Isabeau receiving Christine de Pisan's Le Livre de la Cité des Dames, attributed to the Master of the Cité des Dames and workshop and to the Master of the Duke of Bedford (c.1410-1414). Held by the British Library; Harley 4431.
Portrait of Isabella of Portugal from the workshop of Rogier van der Weyden (c.1450). Held by the Getty Museum.
Portrait of Elizabeth of York by an unknown artist (late 16th century, based on a work of c.1500). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
An Old Man in Profile by Quentin Massys (c.1517). Held in an unnamed private collection.
Hans Holbein's witty marginal drawing of Folly (1515), in the first edition of “In Praise of Folly”, a copy owned by Erasmus himself. Held by the Kunstmuseum Basel.
A Grotesque Head attributed to a student of Leonardo da Vinci (c.1480-1510). Held by the Royal Collection Trust.
Illustration of the Duchess and her Family by John Tenniel, published in 1865 in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Scanned from "The collected verse of Lewis Carroll". New York, The Macmillan Co., 1933.
Woodcut of Margaret, Countess of Tyrol by Johann Schultes the Younger (1621). Held by the Royal Collection Trust.
“Ill-Matched Lovers” by Quinten Metsys (c.1520-1525). Held by the National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC.
Exhibition website screenshot: www.nationalga...
Quoted texts:
www.nationalga...
/ why-would-an-artist-pa...
www.theguardia...
www.nhs.uk/con....
Also consulted, were:
Other relevant entries from The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Online.
#History #Art #ReadingThePast

[@UtahGmaw99]

As an old lady myself. Old people don't feel old. We feel not much older than you. I feel for this lady in the portrait. Hope springs eternal. We all want to be loved.

[@kerridwynntheacegoblin6465]

As I continue moving through my 40s, I’m always surprised how little my inner self has changed from five or even ten years ago. Only the facade withers: the mind and spirit flourish as rosy as in youth.

[@colleenuchiyama4916]

Amen to that. I am almost 60 and still feel 12. Act like it too, sometimes. I personally think this is a portrait of a dude in drag. For follies or whatever.

[@prettypic444]

I've often heard it said "the worst crime a woman can commit is to grow older"

[@OdeInWessex]

As Terry Pratchett, our (English) humourist once wrote, "Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened" I relate to this on a deeply personal level!

[@notdeadjustyet8136]

Your words deeply moved me! Poetic,yet true. It's our environment that tells us we're young or old(and social standards change) but we simply feel like OURSELVES. We're that one constant thing we compare others to,so it almost feels like everything else changes, whilst we stay the same. at 18,I saw myself as old enough & 31YOs as not very young Now,at 31, I think of ppl my age as fairly young & i feel like i'm 18🙂(or 12. It doesn't matter. It's always me🙂). It's not that i've aged, it's the people i see as young that have gotten older😎).

[@123popup]

I see her as a real person. Her eyes are so kind and hopeful. Longing even but tempered by long suffering. I agree with her being painted carefully, kindly, and sympathetically. Such a striking portrait in so many ways.

[@cardinalgin]

Dr Kat, I'm so relieved that you felt her humanity. I didn't want to laugh at her either. There is so much humble pride and trust in her eyes. I'm inclined to think that Metsys may even have had some affection for her.

[@chriscarson7384]

Thank you so much for this video. I had always considered this portrait to be a cruel mockery of the woman. I had never heard of Paget's disease, but looking that up just now, I see how the medical student could reach that diagnosis. Regardless of the woman's health status, I do appreciate your compassion and kindness in considering other circumstances behind this painting.

[@audreysouthwood4380]

Years ago I met a man with pPagets. It's a very painful disease. Hoping there is relief from it now,

[@arlenewitt248]

I don’t know about Paget’s disease because I don’t have a medical background, but I am 71 years of age and I can tell you her hands lack the age one would expect for an elderly woman.

[@mdlmomma9167]

Agree. The hands are so fair and delicate, and suggest a lack of hard manual labor.

[@user-mk3nu3hd4o]

Absolutely agreed, that caught my eye as well!

[@brendagowing3945]

Such heart, humanity and intelligence in this presentation. It’s heartbreaking how easily we fall into mockery. Now, Dr. Kat, you’ve guided us to compassion. Thank you for making us better.

[@otterlover3399]

By the way, when I was a child I happened to read a children's picture book about some Arthurian Knight who was married to a lady who was literally this painting inserted into the art of the picture book. She was a beautiful stereotypical pretty princess by night, but in the morning she became this woman. And the Knight had to choose whether he wanted her to be ugly by day or by night. He spent a long time agonising over whether or not it was better for his image for everyone to think he had a pretty wife, but then he would have to sleep next to an ugly woman and presumably have sexy times with her (the horror!! 🙄) or if he should forfeit his reputation, let the court think he was married to the ugly woman, but at night enjoy many sexy times with the pretty princess. Well he finally figured out that he should let his wife decide what happened to her own body. Which would have been a somewhat OK message to tell kids, right? But when he gave his wife the choice, his reward for solving the riddle ("what does a woman desire most?" Answer: "her own way") was that his wife ceased to be "the ugly duchess" forever and stayed the pretty princess 24/7. And the result is that I learned at age 8 or so that being an ugly woman is completely unacceptable.

[@Elfdaughter]

Ah yes, Gawain and Dame Ragnall. As far as the story goes, she was cursed to look even worse than this - something like a Picasso painting. I believe she’s described as having one eye in the middle of her forehead and another where her chin was. Her brother challenged King Arthur one day and told him that the king’s days were numbered and that he had a year to return to the same spot with an answer to the riddle - ‘what do women desire most?’ If he failed, the knight would chop off the king’s head (amazing how often that happened in Arthurian legends….). He met Dame Ragnall on the road, who told him she knew the answer, but would only tell him if he gave her a knight in marriage. Gawain stepped up and said he would do it, and then - yup, the rest played out like you said.

[@otterlover3399]

@@Elfdaughter yup

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

There is a very old folksong that goes along the lines of a knight seeking shelter when a storm interrupts his hunting becoming captive in the castle of this hideous monster. To gain his freedom he has to feed her his hunting dogs, his horse and watch as she devours them. Eventually she demands he sleep with her, and after doing so he wakes to find he is in bed with the most beautiful woman he has ever seen. And of course they live Happily Ever After. A very peculiar song, which is open to many interpretations. She tells him it is because he accepted her and was willing to sacrifice what was dear to him that he was able to break the spell, but a cynic might say he was just trying to get away!

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

​@@Elfdaughter Good old Gawain! Always there to step in when Arthur is on a sticky wicket! A Green knight wants someone's head? 'He can have mine!' A hideous creature wants a husband? 'I'll marry her!' Always my favourite knight.

[@tricivenola8164]

It's a spin, or a misremembered version, of the Wife of Bath's Tale from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. The woman is old, hideous and smelly, but she promises that if he marries her, she'll tell him the answer to King Arthur's question: "What do women want?" They have many disagreements and finally the knight says in exasperation, "Do what you will!" Whereupon she becomes the most beautiful, sweet young woman he's ever seen. The point is that women want to rule.

[@rojo1193]

My first thought when I saw her was "Mrs. Haversham." This only increased when I saw the portrait of the old man. While the subject of the painting is wearing pristine clothes unlike a wedding dress that has aged with time, it made me think of a woman who had saved herself for her true love. When the companion piece was shown, I looked at his hand gesture in one of two ways, even though it was the same gesture. I thought of the sign of the cross. In one of my thoughts on this, I wondered if he was using it as a gesture to, for lack of any better phrasing, ward her off like he was scared of her. The other way I looked at it was could this be a man that she's loved for her entire life, and for whom she has saved herself for? And now after many years apart, he is now arrived back to his hometown only to find that the young woman that he left so many years ago has tried so hard to hold on to her youth but has failed in his eyes? These were just some of my initial thoughts. On a personal level I connected with her. I have a condition that does affect the appearance of my limbs, and just earlier this week I have found myself hearing snickers behind my back in a store. Over the course of the pandemic, I found myself becoming more and more comfortable not leaving the home and having everything delivered. Having experiences such as people laughing at me make me want to retreat even more. I sometimes force myself to go out just so I won't stay inside forever. I'm very fortunate though in that my husband is spectacular, but it still doesn't stop me from realizing I am not the conventional picture of beauty. If this portrait is of a woman that did live at some point in time, I truly hope that she was also fortunate to have others in her life, whether it be family, friends, or even a lover, that made her feel special.

[@BekFarry]

My grandfather suffered terribly from early age onset Pagets. It took him in his 50s, by which time he was physically mishapened and in excruciating amounts of pain. If this poor woman had Pagets, I feel for her. She may have been younger than you may otherwise assume and she would have known vast unfathomable torrents of pain. She would have had difficulty simply functioning day to day. Perhaps the reason for the softness in her eyes. Great pain will do that to someone. Fantastic piece (the art and your vid). Thank you.

[@anja7168]

I saw this Portrait as a child in a book, and was also intrigued by it. It was labelled as a picture of Duchess Margarete Maultasch. As a German, i found the name Maultasch hilarious. Because "Maultaschen" is a common German dish, a kind of dumplings. Thank you for this interesting video, which corrected for me the misconceptions that sorround this painting.

[@hiwakoo]

But it still fits to my image of her, which is based on the book by L.Feuchtwanger.

[@mariagordanier3404]

@@hiwakoo That is a very good book! It is called 'the ugly duchess' in english. She was Austrian and a real person.

[@prettypic444]

I think it's interesting to see this painting in context how society treats old women, particularly those with medical issues. At first glance the subject is seen as an inhuman monster, as many old women are (think the stereotype of the witch or crone), but if you look closer, you can see the light and hope in her eyes and the dignity in her face. in a strange way, she reminds me of an old teacher I had who had such severe arthritis, her fingers were permanently curled- cruel kids used to say that she was a witch, but I was always fond of her

[@LadyHuggington]

Thanks for this, Dr Kat. I've always wondered about this portrait. It seems terribly cruel to have had that woman sit through the countless hours it would take to make such a detailed portrait simply to mock her. I thought that, if intended to mock her, it would be like those painting that show a naked woman with her face reflected in a mirror and the artist calls it "vanity" even though they're the one who posed her that way and the physics of refraction means she's actually looking at the painter and not herself, so it's actually a testament of the artist's own desire to look at the naked woman. In other words, if intended to mock the woman's "ugliness", the result is more an encapsulation of the artist's own ugliness for seeing ugliness in her and wanting others to join in their mockery. But it still doesn't feel like it's intended to mock, because as you point out, it seems like a very carefully and lovingly done portrait. I like the idea that it's someone who was loved and had a condition.

[@cmschmidt]

I’ve always imagined it was two different versions of the same person. I have a background in theater and unless I’m way off, and I could be, I thought it was possibly an actor. On one side dressed in a nice “civilian” outfit on the other side dressed as one of their more famous roles. Given the time period, the more feminine dress seems more like a costume than an outfit to be painted in. I can see this set of paintings having so many meanings and wide open to interpretation.

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

Never thought of the acting thing before, and I think you have something. To me, it is 100% a man! Bringing in the theatrical aspect makes so much sense. Also explains why that ample 'bosom' looks like 2 chicken breasts. Lol

[@bizburgess1947]

I had always thought this portrait was of a man in drag, as I have seen men with that elongated upper lip to nose, but never a female... your explanation was very enlightening. Thank you as always, well presented.

[@cathrynharrison4734]

I agree q fat elderly man in a tight bodice would hhave breasts that looked like that

[@mdlmomma9167]

I thought so too, but then the hands seem quite delicate. On the other hand, the shoulders are broad and strong looking. This image will stay with me for a while.

[@StripyOrange]

I also think it could well be a portrait is of a man dressed as a woman.

[@conemadam]

I have always loved this portrait. It has always struck me that the sitter poses in great earnestness. This is also why it has always broken my heart. A wonderful, humane interpretation Dr. Kat.

[@lisakilmer2667]

I always assumed this was a satirical portrait, even of a man in drag. Once one has seen the Alice in Wonderland Duchess, one's opinion is colored by that work. But while listening and looking, two things struck me. I think she was a real person because of the pathos in her expression and because the distorted proportions of her face and shoulders would have been hard to imagine. I don't think she was a wealthy person having a portrait made: if so, she would have dressed in a more flattering/less exposing manner. For instance, the headpiece exaggerates the oddly domed brow, and the low gown exaggerates the distorted shoulders. Fashionable clothing in N. Europe in the early 1500s would have had loads of more flattering choices available. Also, little detail: her fingernails look stained! The suggestion about Paget's (bone) is brilliant - it explains the cartoonish distortion of the face - the knobby brow and elongated area below the nose.

[@maniafactor3564]

I have not heard of Paget's disease and while staring at the image, I kept seeing an older man in drag. The drawing by Da Vinci's student looks more female than the painting does. I don't really have an opinion of whether the subject was real or not.

[@didntlistendad]

Yes I wondered about the fingernails too. Expanded but can’t decide if they’re dirty/ stained & thus ? more likely on the work worn hands of a servant.

[@rhiannonpoole6019]

I think it's very sad that it assumed that because she is not conventionally beautiful then we either laugh at her or pity her. I have always thought it was a genuine portrait of a real person, true and honest to how she really was. We seem to accept'ugliness' in men much more readily than in women - God made us all different and we should celebrate that. Thank you for this in depth video, Dr Kat.

[@melenatorr]

That's very true, because as I look at this portrait, she doesn't seem to be a person who requires pity from us, and possibly knows all too well about mocking laughter. As Dr. Kat notes, there is warmth in her expression and eyes: that gaze is direct and gentle, and so is the general expression. There's an air of quiet dignity and yet humility about her. This is a woman who put a lot of trust in Messys, and he does seem to have spent a great deal of energy in portraying her. I think I do question the proposed second-hand nature of the clothing: as Dr. Kat noted at the start, the fabrics are vivid and very clean - especially that spotless white head covering. I speculate that the lovely pureness of the color and folds mean that these clothes are fairly new-made, not hand-me-downs, or something laying around. It makes me think about Ellen Nussey, friend of Charlotte Bronte, who described members of the Bronte family during a visit she made to the Parsonage. She describes Aunt Branwell as a woman who proudly dressed in the styles of her youth, down to the large bonnets and her snuff boxes. Ellen makes some gently mocking comments about this, but Aunt Branwell clearly didn't care, and dressed the way that made her feel best. (Emily Bronte similarly dressed out of fashion in Brussels, and snapped back at comments with "I wish to be as God made me").

[@katharper655]

I recall first seeing this painting when I was about 16 yrs of age. At the time, having the typical teenage sympathies and empathy of a rock, I unsurprisingly found the Lady revolting; I don't recall exactly, but I'm sure I made some disparaging remark and moved on. FAST FORWARD several years. Now in my mid-30's I find myself viewing the Lady in a far more positive light...an almost fond frame of mind. I see her as one of Life's courageously determined types...and admire her for her Courage in the face of Time.

[@lindabilodeau375]

Her humanity shines in spite of her disfigurement. Her eyes, expression, and gentleness show her true beauty. I think she was a real person who knew her worth.

[@charlesmcdermott6139]

Believe it or not, I know a woman who resembled this painting! Thank God she had just enough softening to keep her from being ugly. She was also a very intelligent and kind person. As children, my brother and sisters and I , if we called anyone “ugly” or made fun of anyone, my Mom and Dad would say to us , “ There but for the grace of God go you!”. We were chastened!

[@operationgoldfish8331]

I think the fact that there is a companion piece almost certainly means they are meant to be viewed together. In which case, a once beautiful old woman, dressed in the finery of her youth, offers the still youthful representation of her love to her equally old and ugly husband, recalling the sweetness that first brought them together. In profile, it's hard to tell, but his expression seems to be as gentle as hers and his hand may either be on the verge of acceptance or refusal. I tend to think the former. Overall, it would seem to be a reminder that despite the passage of time we are still the same people with shared memories and feelings, in which case, this is profoundly beautiful.

[@bornadas3100]

What an insightful and interesting video. I also feel sympathy for the lady in the potrait, looks like a real person to me. If the painting was meant for people to laugh at her, I feel utterly sorry for that poor lady.

[@RoseFire6]

I always thought that this picture was satire. I love the idea of this woman being a real person. Someone who wants to show their true self or an artist wanting to paint a unique different person.

[@ericamcferran7805]

Such an empathetic, kind yet fascinating video. When I saw you had put up a video on this portrait on instagram I opened another tab straight away. I saw this portrait as a very young girl, maybe about 6 or 7 and of course in my childish mind all that came to me that it was making fun of the woman in the portrait. I had completely forgotten about it until I saw you had posted this video and I was so excited to see what was no doubt going to be a fascinating and sympathetic look at it. I rarely comment on youtube videos but thank you so much for this and all your other videos, it was finding your videos that reignited my passion for going on to study history at uni and to become an archivist, hopefully, in the future.

[@tambranicolekendall9288]

Erica Mcferran congratulations on studying history at uni! Wishing you the best!

[@spews1973]

A captivating video. One of the great things about the study of the arts is there's no single correct answer. Multiple different interpretations of a work can all be equally valid, regardless of what the artist's intentions actually were.

[@jfs59nj]

Dr. Kat, I have been a subscriber and fan for a long time. I am struck, possibly never more than here, by the depth of your curiosity, thoughtfulness and compassion. I have no clever idea about this subject but you certainly have given me much food for thought. So much so that I regret the title of the NG’s exhibition. It seems that folks will come to this subject with a POV that your video has made me question. For that, as always, many thanks.

[@christinanielsen-marsh488]

Yes, I was also struck by the unfortunate choice for the title...

[@MichaelaDrechselova]

to me, she looks kind and serene. i like her. if she was a real person, i despise all that laugh at her. if the painting was meant to be laughed at, i don't see the humor.

[@f.drachenfels4503]

She is Margarete „Maultasch“ duchess of tyrol

[@bendrui]

There's something sweet and hopeful about the Duchess' expression. I think she's be a wonderful friend, full of good humor and gentle wisdom.

[@FirstnameLastname-uc7rb]

Dr Kat, thank you for such a kind and interesting look into this painting. I am a homeschooling parent and I incorporate all of your videos into my curriculum. My daughter (9) loves your lectures. We will be checking out the online exhibit you linked as we live in the states. Thank you for your work❤

[@starrywizdom]

She has soulful eyes. I like to think that if she was a real person, there were people who loved her.

[@hlovewood5636]

Maultasch(en) is a German dish, too. Originally from the south of Germany. It is kind of big Raviolis. a coat of pasta with minced meat, herbs and some veggies. Quite delicious

[@hlovewood5636]

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maultasche

[@alyssa6876]

I, like a few other I'm guessing, had assumed this was painted as a satirical piece. I'm so thankful for your wonderful and kind attention to this painting. People, past and present, tend to be horrid to those who are different. The young tend to ignore or mock those who are older, I was myself guilty of it. If this woman did indeed suffer from Paget's disease and it is a disease that presents in the older populace then I wonder how much mockery she suffered from the younger people around her.

[@Lucyverre]

I found this a very interesting story, thank you. And Dr Cat, you are a very empathetic woman. I can't imagine it would be a fictional figure because it is painted so precisely with so much detail and indeed love for the painting. I totally agree with your suggestions.

[@metalsomemother3021]

Makes me think of the song "Delta Dawn" by Tanya Tucker and Helen Reddy

[@JuliahistoryLover]

I would love to see a whole video just on the hood/headdresses style. Oh and also it was a so fascinating hearing what young people called the old styles, and what they thought of women who wore them. Very interesting!!

[@savvygood]

I'm a new subscriber and so far, I love your content. Seeing as this artist had another humorous painting, it would make sense that the Ugly Duchess is a grotesque. But, I do find the fact that she's wearing out of date clothing to be a genuine depiction of aging women and people in general. I knew a woman who wore her 1960's bee hive hair style into the 2000s. She used to have me come over to her house and brush out the tangles and teasing once a week.

[@MakeUpWitch]

I know this painting for years and I've always had the following story in my mind: An artist complains to his friends how many old wealthy women he has to paint to make money. He talks about these old spinsters who force him to make them look younger and still beautiful. The friends joke about old spinsters resembling men. And with more wine more jokes come until the bet is set. He will paint a picture of an old spinster with all the attributes - she looks like a man because she's never known love, she's faded just like that flower, she wears her best clothes from her youth when she still believed she will marry one day... And so the artist finds an ugly man to be a model for the head and an old woman to be the model for the body. And here we go: a very faded flower, an old spinster appears right in front of our eyes. I always felt like the head was put on a different body - two different models were used. If I look at the bone structure and the high forehead and the big ears I clearly see a balding male, but the shoulders and hands are clearly female. So much for my two cents :-)

[@theConquerersMama]

This is what I thought when seeing it as well.

[@renater.540]

I had some similar thoughts - the head of this person obviously resembling a man. And I wondered, if this might have been a deforming disease - perhaps being hormonally induced. But since I don't have any medical education I can't prove my assumptions (or better: speculations). Is anybody out there who could back up or disprove my thoughts? Thank you for any fact based comment!

[@theclassicso8094]

There is something endearing about this portrait. I don't know why, but that's what I see in the portrait. Thank you for a wonderful presentation and discussion.

[@shleerene1981]

Something is so soothing about how you tell these historical events

[@pocketsizedcg]

You are doing some excellent art historical analysis here, Dr. Kat!! 😊

[@sophiegeek1]

I imagine this lady had recently been approached by the painter to model for him, and in doing so, felt truly beautiful - perhaps for the first time in her life!

[@lucretialee3691]

This painting has always reminded me of a book I read as a child called The Wedding of Sir Gawain and the Loathly Lady, the lady in the books illustrations has very much the feel to her.

[@Morna777]

That painting reminds me of the compassion we should always extend to those with disabilities / body differences. Her eyes are indeed soft and very human.

[@tenaoconnor7510]

I always wondered if it was a man dressed as a woman. The eyes make the portrait seem real. The other person could have been a longed for but impossible love. I wonder if they were painted as companion portraits as the only way they could be together. ❤

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

Another brilliant idea! I don't think that is a woman. never have. I am now beginning to wonder if this is a 'publicity portrait' for some famed actor of the time, who has been long forgotten.

[@Geyser39]

What fascinates me is not only the detail--the stretchmarks! The softness of the skin!--but also that her hands don't look old. They don't look like they belong to the rest of her body, the skin on them is smooth and free of age marks. She doesn't have the same thin skin on her hands that she does on her breasts, or the raised veins on the back of her hands that my grandmothers did.

[@amymahers2957]

I too have thought this is a man in drag. I don’t think of it as ugly as I do a person longing for acceptance. In the early 1500’s this may have been his only outlet. It is also to provoke thought as well. Man or woman, he or she may have wanted acceptance in a world where “ugly” gets none.

[@susan2441]

Doctor Cat, your analysis says so much about your personality, compassion and kindness toward people. It reveals a way of thinking - looking deeper and longer, curious and finding perspectives. This is typical of you in your podcasts. Thank you for being a good model.

[@marshaprice8226]

FYI… I have been subscribed to your channel for awhile with the “All” bell chosen. KZbin has been notifying me of your downloads. I am enjoying your channel. You cover so many interesting topics!

[@christinetitus6388]

Thanks Dr Kat for another excellent video. I like to say she is a real person because she speaks to me! If not the artist had an astonishing insight into capturing how someone like her still can have hope

[@steinhugel]

I do hope she was an actual living person but, more importantly, I hope she had a good life. Life was already hard and especially hard for women even of fair features. So, one can only imagine how rough it might have been for this person. I love your channel, still subscribed and will continue to be. I don’t need to be notified by KZbin, I will faithfully seek out your content. Keep it coming.

[@IntrepidFraidyCat]

Oh wow! This will be a doozy of an episode. 👍🏻😀 I'm going to try really hard to make the livestream.

[@hermanubis7046]

Hey, "Maultasche" is also a dish in the south-west of Germany, like a big ravioli, or a kind of dough dumpling with filling inside.

[@chiron14pl]

I think the warmth in her eyes draws you into a sympathetic connection her that then makes me rethink the grotesque aspect and soften its impact

[@Tilllers]

Absolutely wonderful exploration of this iconic image. I would have liked to hear more about northern European genre painting and how this portrait fits within that category. Might it be referenced alongside, such as, Peter Breugel (the elder) 'Old Woman'. Or even the extreme and distorted realism of Bosch? Looking forward to more of your videos! Thank you!

[@TheNetymags]

Can I just say that I Am so happy to have found your channel. You are an amazing presenter. Thank you for doing this for us❤️

[@marieantoinette3307]

I have seen this painting many times throughout the course of my life, and I must confess I never gave it much thought. You certainly changed my mind. I almost feel as if she is an old friend. And, if I may add, I have always enjoyed history. My grandchildren not so much. Every time they whine that they don't like history, I tell them just watch one of Dr. Katt's videos and you will.

[@pilgrimpoet]

I am so sad that I am in New York and won't be able to just pop across the pond ro see the exhibit in person, but will definitely check out the online option. Thank you for this very interesting discussion!

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Portraits are really fascinating!

[@DeidreL9]

I’ve known of this painting since childhood and wondered about this woman, but only recently did I find out about Mary Ann Bevan, who lived last century and who began life as a beauty but due to disease, (she had Acromegaly) her features became distorted and she looked much like this poor lady. (And I say “poor lady” because of society’s unforgiving eye. Mary Ann Bevan herself experienced extreme prejudice and I’d recommend checking out a video on her life to anyone interested ) This lady’s hand is very beautiful and the bud, to me, seems to indicate she was (conventionally) beautiful in her girlhood. This portrait seems a lot more respectful and dignified than a caricature, it feels very compassionate and l truly hope this lady had the best life possible. It feels like a portrait from life. Absolutely fascinating Dr Kat, thank you so much.

[@TudorositiesbyMaureen]

Quality art makes us ask questions of the times, the subject and the message. This piece will continue to peak peoples curiosity in the future, I have no doubt. A true mark of masterful work.

[@kathyjohnson2043]

I think the couple in Gainsborough's 'Mr. and Mrs. Andrews' are unflatteringly portrayed. I have wondered if it was unfinished because they did not approve of the likenesses. If the Duchess is an accurate portrayal, would the sitter have liked it? On a different note, besides the strikingly similar Da Vinci's sketch, an etching of a couple titled 'King and Queen of Tunis' by Wenzel Hollar (ca. 1645) looks remarkably like Massys' couple (including details such as hand positions) but the print is always labeled as 'after Da Vinci.' A further interesting detail in the print is that the King is on the right.

[@katharineharrison9091]

This has to be one of my favourite videos that you have created. You enticed my mind to think past her looks. You handled this with so much grace and compassion. Thank you

[@Tilllers]

Just one more thing...I'd also like to know more about Massy's political leaning and his view on the aristocracy. I'd also like to know more about Massy's religious persuasion and his stance regarding Catholic/Protestant conflict at the time. Might these biographical elements be read in the painting?

[@rosevale3218]

I think the decision to think someone is beautiful or ugly us a personal thing. I don't find her grotesque. Elderly or as you say she may have had a disease that exaggerated her features. But I believe our judgment is colored by our experiences. A naturally empathetic person probably wouldn't see grotesque but just world weary after many years if life. Beauty it's said is in the eye of the beholder.

[@nancyjames2358]

One of your absolute most intriguing videos yet! Fascinating! Love ya!

[@MaesterTori]

I always somehow got the impression that the sitter in the portrait is someone who is much older, but very very loved. She has kind eyes.

[@hissykittycat]

I am so loving your content. Thank you so much for sharing. I found your analysis of this painting so compassionate, yet you presented all possible scenarios in an intellectually honest easy. Epitomizes why I think your videos are top notch. But I also love your voice, too. All around pure pleasure! Thank you!!

[@mesamies123]

Brilliant, Dr. Kat! Thank you! 💜

[@aliceballagh304]

Thank you for sharing. I always thought this was satirical; however, you have changed my mind. I appreciate all of your videos. Looking at the picture, I am reminded Iof two sayings: 1.) Don't judge a book by its cover 2.) A fool and his/her money are soon departed (the man may look like a jester (fool), but the woman didn't watch her purse. Therefore, she would not benefit from the money she has lost.

[@janethunter1928]

A very interesting and thoughtful presentation on a painting that I had not seen before. Thank you!

[@debbralehrman5957]

I have seen this portrait before. I appreciate your take on it. 😊👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@kidmohair8151]

I first ran across this painting in a book called "Costume through the Ages", a standard reference book for theatrical designers. (I was in training for that line of work at the time) In my mind, in that context, I thought of it as an example of 16th century cross-dressing, for, perhaps, a pageant, or mystery play, or court presentation.

[@maltesercat]

Thanks so much for this Dr Kat! Thank you too for finding this lady's humanity - I was wondering where I recognised the picture from, and realised I once saw it in a book about fairy tales, being used as a depiction of an ogress. Which is sad, especially in light of your discussion and the fact she may well have been a real person

[@annrowe2233]

There is something tender in the way the artist has treated the portrait. Her age and the impact of it on her body do not seem to have diminished her hopeful attitude toward life. I've always liked this portrait. Age need never despoil one's hopes for more happiness.

[@arualblues_zero]

It's interesting to note that, while the old man in the other image is not attractive in any conventional way, he's not widely considered to "challenge every traditional canon of beauty" as she was in that description.

[@eleanorlavish1519]

This is such a human portrait, lovingly rendered. Thank you for your deep thoughtfulness in this video, Dr. Kat.

[@tiredoldbass]

Thank you. I adore this painting.

[@irenenelson9570]

Once again, I have learned something new. Thank you, Dr. Kat, you feed my inner history addiction and it is much appreciated. Thank you and cheers!

[@quillpen815]

Thank you very much Dr Kat. 😊

[@eddieboyky]

I love this channel so much, especially when you're doing art history topics like this one. I find myself wanting to take a class with you.

[@waltercook4868]

I've always been fascinated by this painting. So many portraits, of the age, depict stern facial expressions. This painting depicts a person of good heart and kindness. She had not been dealt beauty in life but she held true to something much more endearing. Or, at least, this is true in my mind.

[@TealCheetah]

I keep thinking about this video and painting, and the more positive ideas about her. This hit me in the soul.

[@fargosnow994]

Very timely. I am going to be in London in early June and late June. I was planning on going to the National gallery in the second visit. I will move my visit to the second time I will be in London. Thanks!

[@lindaisenegger163]

Greetings again from Chicago! Great subject matter. Sent me down a rabbit hole for it...❤

[@stephanieking4444]

A wonderful, empathetic reading of a very interesting portrait. I don't think we're meant to laugh. I feel a strange sadness when I look at her.

[@morriganwitch]

They really don’t look like a pair the lighting is different as is the skin tomes . She always reminds me of Alice in Wonderland Duchess

[@rameyzamora1018]

You're right - the background, coloring & rendering are entirely different in these supposedly partnering paintings.

[@charleston1789]

Wonderful and sensitive video, thank you

[@penelopesparlormaid]

I imagine her as a much-loved Nanny. She was very important to someone ❤

[@dhoward8816]

I hope you talk about the Duchess in "Alices Adventures in Wonderland." You probably already planned to. Thanks!

[@Rick-hx9fo]

What a fantastic in depth study of this painting. To be honest, I had never seen it before. Yet, like you, I didn’t find humor in it at all. There is something so real and compelling about this portrait, especially in the eyes and the gentle grip of the closed rosebud. Thank you for this video from across “the pond”, You’re channel is truly amazing!

[@nataliewhittle9299]

Love this portrait. It always captures my attention and I have often wondered about the story behind it. Thanks

[@pebblebeach7995]

Just found your channel! Love your interesting and thought provoking videos! 😊

[@catherinewood948]

Thanks!

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you ☺️

[@susanhummer8268]

I enjoyed your insights and appreciate your compassion and emotional intelligence.

[@melstjohn3766]

Thank you Dr Kat 🇫🇷

[@marsy1480]

Another wonderful episode Dr Kat. Thank you ❤️

[@stevenwilgus5422]

I watched this piece several days ago, and thought a great deal as to my response. I consider this work as a very great artwork. Having been accomplished centuries in our collective past, she stikes me as the poosible nanny of a wealthy noble family for whom they realize that before her passing, they wished to dress her in finery and have her likeness preserved for posterity. She does, indeed have compassionate eyes. I can trace my lineage into deep antiquity. She may have been an ancestor. I mention only to make the point that as a Duchess, she may be providing us valuable insight as to what becomes of everyone. Time always wins. What we take from our struggles on this earthly plane can bestow great personal insight into the human condition. Despite our personal gain, we all share our commonality as living, breathing souls on the path of enlightenment.

[@JenniferEJones-wg5kp]

❤ Love your videos and your work. Thank you and keep them coming!

[@user3640]

Could you consider doing a video on acts of apparel and legislating what people wore based on their role and class. I think that would be interesting. Thank you for all your wonderful videos.

[@lalaboo251]

Excellent History Friday ✨