REAL ATC | Falcon 20 suffered a DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE during climb

[@pigbenis11]

Pilot lands safely and calmly with zero engines and everybody in the comment section is critiquing it. Obviously none of you are pilots either because "descend and maintain 3000" is a just a clearance for the descent. Departing aircraft are often cleared "climb and maintain 15000" but they don't expect you're going to level off at 15000 because you'd get a further clearance up to cruise before that. Same thing here, probably the lowest he can clear him is 3000 before clearing him for the approach. "Maintain" is just standard phraseology to indicate the alt you're cleared to.

[@andyowens5494]

At last, someone who get it!

[@12345fowler]

@@andyowens5494 Yeah. I am relieved as well. It's just a standard call, don't read too much about it.

[@paterpull]

I learned early on that if there is even a question you will make your intended airport, you turn immediately towards an alternate place to land. This pilot communicated and complied. Good job!!

[@cherokeerookie]

Mx shutoff a fuel valve . Great job by these pilots remaining cool and collected , not to mention squeezing it into 4k ft. Runway

[@Lil_trashcan-k4s]

Wrong. You don’t know what you are talking about

[@nigeltaylor58]

I reckon both those pilots had skid marks on their underpants after such a catastrophic event and then to land that jet on a 4K runway and no reverse thrust to slow them to stop together with numerous turns on approach. Those pilots kept cool heads and a difficult job well done.

[@mikeramsey9747]

A smart controller will "NEVER" issue a descent (altitude restriction) it will always be descend at Pilots Discretion if an engine is operating then I will add upon starting your descent if able maintain XXXX, the unique situation here is with both engines out there is no way the pilots are going to maintain any altitude, gravity has total control. My experience had always been to ask what range/distance can you expect to make, with this information I can suggest other airfields or off airport landing options. With ARTS IIE or STARS I could pull up data and it would bring up suitable airports for an emergency based upon aircraft type plus it would provide airport information that I can pass onto the pilots so they don't have to look it up. These guys all did a great job and all seemed very calm.

[@BadMonkeyTouring]

Ok, so how can he maintain 3,000' if his engines are out?

[@huskkyy]

It’s the Grid MORA of the area, maintain 3000 for terrain clearance if possible. It’s a “avoid descending below 3000 for terrain”

[@thomasfriberg225]

Well, that depends on how much speed he can bleed off

[@BadMonkeyTouring]

@@huskkyy yes, I realize that but if his engines aren't running, he's not going to maintain any altitude.

[@Rogers319]

@@BadMonkeyTouring I hear what you’re saying, but I think as a pilot I would prefer that ATC calls out that altitude rather than not. It’s a quick easy thing to mention and just gives additional information to the pilot at no negative cost. You can’t maintain altitude? Sweet. The minimum obstacle clearance in the area is still great information for me during an emergency. A lot is going on in a emergency and the ATC being more informative is always preferred to the uninformative- that always ends in tragedy.

[@BadMonkeyTouring]

@@Rogers319 I agree. I've been flying corporate jets for 25 years. I would prefer that the controller simply advise the crew of the minimum safe altitude, instead of 'descend and maintain 3,000 feet.'

[@johnnyfive1412]

You would think James Bond would have a better jet

[@OneSkiWonder]

With that being said, most vehicles that James Bond got his hands on, weren't able to be reused after he was finished with them.

[@infantryshooter]

😂

[@Gigi-14]

That was a short runway with no reverse thrusters. Good job on that safe landing pilots! 👏👏👏

[@LincolnLagger]

Engines out and ATC wants him to maintain 3000? Then sends him far away without offering the nearest airport. Uhg it's so bad.

[@b3l14l]

Would be hard to maintain 3,000 in a glider for half that distance lol. What was ATC thinking?

[@mangosan5884]

@@b3l14l means JUST BE ABOVE 3000 to be safe in this area

[@b3l14l]

​@@mangosan5884 I hear "maintain" 3000 not: "at or above 3,000"

[@BillySugger1965]

What part of “lost both engines” did he not get?

[@mangosan5884]

@@BillySugger1965 What part of "keep the DESCEND BUT MAKE SURE YOU ARE ABOVE 3000" message U DIDNT HEAR HERE?

[@philconey11]

I'd call my wife after that one and take the week off.

[@JavierBrent]

Dan Gryder could say. NOOOO! dont turn, crash forward on a field or forest. Keep going straight ahead. No turns if engine out.

[@alixena9340]

That alternative airport should have been offered, without question, by the ATC at the get-go !!!

[@jcraigshelton]

Is it too much to ask to include ALL of the comms and not just the comms after the emergency was declared?

[@billyhillk5726]

Calm. Nice landing 🛬.

[@guyseeten2755]

Lansing 15 miles, gliding almost in a straight line. Mason at 9 o'clock and 8 miles, which requires a left and right turn. Without power, so maybe even control problems? I don't understand this decision. Only thing I can think of, is that they wanted to avoid crashing in the city of Lansing.

[@Chris-de2qh]

I tend to agree although wind conditions aloft might have played a factor. Also, just making the airport even if it's not on a runway is almost always better than not making the airport. Fire equipment is already at the crash sight and it's flatter with fewer obstructions.

[@gregmanning8967]

Turning90 degrees left and 90 degrees right is not going to eat up 7 miles of glide. Closer airport is almost always the better option unless the runway isn't suitable. Which, at 4200 feet, would have been much more of a concern than the turns to me. 4200 feet would be pretty short for a Falcon 20 with the engines running, with the engines out it's impressive. Falcon 20 has an APU so I would assume the flight controls were not an issue unless fuel exhaustion were the problem.

[@TiptronicSS]

I didn't understand that either. You could glide straight like a paper plane or make some hard turns to eat your altittitude and end up flying as far but more difficult. My idea was also that it was about possible lifeloss on the ground.

[@singleproppilot]

He said they didn’t think they would make Lansing.

[@TexasZ71]

You would know if you were in that seat in that situation. Split seconds decision is going to tell you how far you are/are not going to make it. Good job by the crew 🛩️

[@seanmullins7568]

OUTSTANDING JOB GUY'S!!!

[@legofreak4895]

0:51 "Detroit says you lost both engines" Be how long ago it was that both engines failed? This must have been known before the frequency change. And only a few second later do they come to the realization that LAN is no longer an option? A bit strange

[@padathir]

Life gets chaotic in the cockpit when all you lose all engines, give em a break

[@JEK134]

Negative, can not descend and maintain 3000. But…. I will pass through it on my way to kicking ass at this emergency landing!

[@Tom_Losh]

...you lost both your engines? Descend and maintain 3000... What the heck kind of idiocy is that?

[@glenouellette3900]

He told him to descend at his discretion (he never told him to descend to 3000, use your ears), and included important information of "maintain 3000" because there are potentially things just under 3000 that he could slam into. But hey, you do you.

[@cleanlude]

It is ATC procedure. They are on an IFR flight plan and still require clearances regardless of emergency - they just won't get in trouble if they deviate from the clearance due to the emergency. The Approach controller cleared him down to 3000 but was surely not expecting them to level off at 3000 since he would issue further clearance before the plane got that low. When the controller clears him for the visual approach, there is no longer an altitude restriction. He was cleared visual long before getting to 3000. There are multiple procedural reasons for this. There are also minimum vectoring altitudes that ATC cannot legally clear you under in certain sectors. Doubtful 3000 was the minimum vector altitude but I don't know the area.

[@idunnoanymore2870]

Why WUD ATC provide vectors to a further airport when both engines out?

[@MattSwinden]

Heading to the airport with a longer runway, the pilots probably thought they could make it, then realized they could not so opted for the closer with the less desirable runway.

[@fhuber7507]

It's a glide slope calculation. Some aircraft can make that glide from the altitude the aircraft had when they declared MAYDAY. They initially appear to have thought they could make it, but apparantly the real descent rate vs distance over ground was telling the pilots they'd be short. So they look for a closer option. The sooner they look, the more options that might be available. Typically where they put it down was not on their list of fields the airplane would select because the runway is marginal at best. But in this case, ANY runway they can reach is better than one they can't reach. Zero injuries reported... F the airplane. The insurance co can have it. This was 100% everything done right.

[@Towert7]

Fuel contamination?

[@ImpendingJoker]

Could be any number of factors. The Falcon 20's are very old planes and there is a reason a lot of them were upgraded to the Falcon 200 standard with newer high bypass engines. Those old turbojet engines are fuel guzzlers and not the more reliable.

[@AviationJeremy]

Fair bet when you have a double engine failure.

[@ZBR_garage]

I do believe Elvis owned this jet for about a year as an investment N368EJ was the tail# when he owned it, just researching this today and saw this incident just happened in September

[@DrLumpyDMus]

Thank you very Muuuch.

[@hugosboss5269]

You would think the CIA would take more care about their planes

[@briansavage932]

Wait what

[@wesss9353]

MI-5 not the CIA

[@wesss9353]

@@briansavage932 pilots name...

[@12345fowler]

A falcon 20, they still fly ? They came in the early 70's I think

[@bldn10]

Maybe one of the original FedEx Falcons?

[@12345fowler]

@@bldn10 maybe, a testament to their excellent construction and durability in any case.

[@davidedmundson8402]

Apparently, they now do the "glide" version of flying.

[@frankish5314]

"Descend and maintain 3000".. WTF? Yeah I'll get right on that!

[@jdaz5462]

Wait, both engines out and they are diverted over a dense population to an airport that's too far to even make?

[@Phiba14]

So is that your thing, you just wait a few months and remake the videos posted on Vasaviation?

[@buddyboy4x44]

As a non-pilot I find the garbled manner of speech quite remarkable. I am sure those in the business will say they understand each other perfectly. However, when lives are lost because of it it will be addressed. Why wait? Is it hard to have a requirement for clear speech?

[@cattnipp]

I hear way too many ATCs and pilots using vocal fry. It started with valley girls and now it’s taken over air comms. This is ridiculous

[@Ztbmrc1]

How can a 2 engine airplane that lost both engines maintain 3000 ft??? O I see @jesse3748 commented the same. And indeed that flying route with the sharp curves is not what you want. But in the end they made it, although the plane might have suffered some damage...

[@rilmar2137]

That's unfortunate

[@steve1978ger]

understatement of the week

[@ThomasPihl]

Why all the old stuff? Thumbs down

[@tim7402]

Maintain 3000 , Jasus murphy man what part of lost both engines do you not understand !!!!

[@DrLumpyDMus]

Jasus Murphy was one of my stage names when I was a male stripper, back in the 70's.

[@jimydoolittle3129]

Falcon 20 got B+ Pilots A+ Controller F -

[@tonymurray814]

That sucked!!!

[@375GTB]

Pure LUCK having that alternative landing strip close enough to make it. God was on duty! J.C.

[@vociferon-heraldofthewinte7763]

I assume the controller was fired.

[@mperlatti]

Turning takes away airspeed… With no engines? This is a joke

[@rona4960]

And?

[@RLTtizME]

Your couch maintains altitude without engines...explain that.

[@gregmanning8967]

"Turning takes away airspeed…" No, it doesn't. It does eat up a little extra energy due to the reduced vertical component of lift but it's relatively minor compared to needing to glide an additional 7 miles to make the original airport.

[@RLTtizME]

@@gregmanning8967 He was referring to the flight characteristics of your sofa…which is much different. Therefore he made an accurate assertion.

[@DrLumpyDMus]

@@RLTtizME My theory is that my couch maintains altitude due to the lighter-than-air methane gas stored in the foam cushions.

[@thatguy8005]

Maintain 3000… 😂🤣😂🤣 they have no engine dummy.

[@tomperkins5657]

It is in regard to possible terrain differential.

[@jimferris5476]

MAINTAIN 3000.....

[@toddw6716]

Is ATC and these pilots idiots if both engines are out! Why would you pass up any airport under those conditions. And how can you maintain 300) with engines out. Todays ATC is pretty terrible at a lot of places. I retired in 2020 from ATC and the new controllers that the FAA was keeping sucked! And I am being polite.

[@jimmiller5600]

"the new generation is the worst" --- said Socrates.

[@EightPawsProductionsHD]

Well, your standard of English is terrible, not sure I'd want you as my controller. Having said that the phraseology used by a lot of American controllers is trash, and constantly deviates from standard.

[@joshuahudson2170]

From the sound of it, pilot thought they couldn't reach the first airport and asked for another.

[@toddw6716]

@Keep Calm ATC

[@singleproppilot]

“Kids these days!” - Todd W.

[@leathervogel5242]

Well…. Did the $12 million glider actually make it onto the runway within 4000 feet with no power? To be able to land and keep the aircraft intact would’ve taken exceptional piloting skills?

[@4321eyeseeyou]

It landed and slid off the runway, into the grass where it stopped. Minimal damage to runway, airfield. No injuries reported.

[@darrylr.4983]

With the engines out they may not have had hydraulics to the brakes, only residual pressure and maybe a brake accumulator. Probably did not have any antiskid protection. The minimum runway for landing with a Falcon 20 is 4000 feet, so they barely had the minimum. With reduced braking ability and no thrust reversers it would have been a miracle to get stopped on that short runway. The pilots did well to be able to walk away from it.

[@4321eyeseeyou]

@@darrylr.4983 it absolutely was a miracle, he had some help.

[@smokendt]

This is an old Falcon, and depending on the time on engines and upgrades, you can get them for under $1mil. The pilots did a great job. Very expensive to operate.