Real Housewives of Salt Lake City - Heather Gay and Dre Nord Pt. 1 - Mormon Stories 1369

Recently I was super fortunate to sit down with reality tv stars Heather Gay and Dre Nord - who are both currently appearing on BravoTV's "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City." In this three-part series, we focus on Heather and Dre's life experiences within the context of Mormonism (and Utah Mormonism).
Part 1 covers...
- Heather and Dre's early years as devout Mormons.
- Dre's marriage, divorce, and faith crisis as a Mormon in her early 20s. This includes how Dre navigated her life as a divorced single ex-Mormon Utah Mom without a college degree.
- Heather's experiences at BYU and serving an LDS mission in France.
- Heather's somewhat challenging efforts to find a faithful Mormon husband (Billy Gay).
- Dre shares how she almost lost her mother to death by suicide, in part due to pressures of "perfectionism" that many Mormon women experience.
- Heather shares some of the reactions she has received from members of the Mormon and ex-Mormon communities, as well as from the Utah LGBTQ community, regarding her participation in the show.
Part 2 covers...
- Heather's marriage to Billy Gay III, which culminated in Heather becoming Relief Society President ended in divorce.
- How Heather and Dre met, and how they were able to build a successful, multi-million dollar business together (Beauty Lab Laser) as divorced Mormon single women in Utah.
- Dre shares the tragic story of losing her brother to suicide last year, and how she and Heather created a 501c3 non-profit called "Don't Leave" to help "break the stigma around mental health."
Part 3 covers...
- Heather's struggle to accept the end of her "Eternal Marriage," which included years of denial.
- Heather's life as a divorced single Mom, which included experimentation with things she never considered trying as a devout Mormon (e.g. alcohol).
- How Heather's perspective on Mormonism changed once she became dear friends with two wonderful gay Mormon men.
- Heather and Dre discuss their opinions about how harmful the LDS Church's doctrine around LGBTQ members is.
- Heather and Dre also discuss the ways in which the LDS Church's "Proclamation on the Famly" harms not only LGBTQ members, but also Mormon women/girls and men/boys as well.
- Heather discusses her current struggle to reconcile her longstanding orthodox Mormon beliefs as they conflict with her developing beliefs about life.
This is a heartwarming, epic, and inspiring story of resilience. I was deeply moved by this vulnerability, wisdom, courage, and resilience of these inspiring women.
Please share any questions or comments you have for Heather and Dre below.
Part 1: • Real Housewives of Sal...
Part 2: • Real Housewives of Sal...
Part 3: • Real Housewives of Sal...
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Timecodes:
00:00 Introduction & Episode structure
07:54 Dre’s Mormon Story begins starts
12:30 Rules on dating and emotional intimacy
14:16 Mormonism being part of her whole life
15:37 Feeling better than others, culture shock when moving to Utah
19:45 Heather tells about her upbringing
26:25 Getting to know mormons who didn't live the teachings
28:03 Difference between Utah Mormons and those living in the 'mission field'
30:24 Playing with the rules
35:20 Living a double life
37:40 Making a huge shift
38:57 Dre on how she managed follow the rules
40:28 Dre & Heather’s dreams about education & talents
51:40 Heather's BYU experience
56:23 Starting a business at BYU
58:09 September 6
59:09 Dating at BYU
1:00:55 Only girls who couldn't get married went on a mission
1:06:46 “Honor code what?”
1:09:14 Heather's mission
1:12:44 Heather's testimony in French
1:18:12 Beliefs she had then. Disentangling herself
1:22:54 Mormon doctrines as a TBM
1:31:54 Dre comforting Heather
1:34:05 There's all sorts of ways to be a mormon
1:37:55 They don't excommunicate celebrities
1:38:27 Dre and Heather's temple experience
1:43:55 Dre talking about her marriage
1:44:40 Getting a phone call about her mom's suicidial plans
1:46:00 3 kingdoms of heaven
1:47:48 Mom feeling inadequate
1:49:53 Discussing ways a woman can feel inadequate
1:53:46 Sex
1:56:21 Other important expectations of mormon women
2:03:21 Mom not wearing garments. She leaves the church
2:07:31 Parents divorce
2:08:00 Dre's faith crisis
2:13:12 Going down the rabbit hole at 22 y old while pregnant
2:18:03 Feeling deeply betrayed
2:22:30 Divorce & Being a single mom
2:25:08 Starting over
2:31:09 Hope for her daughter, disservice of church values
2:34:19 Resigning
2:39:03 'Thank you next.'
2:42:07 Real housewives showing Mormon issues in the show
2:46:17 Most vocal people disagreeing with Heather
2:48:15 The show is not made to show everything
2:51:13 Closing
#RHOSLC #LDS #Mormon #PostMormon #ExMormon #MormonStories #Religion #Education #RealHousewives #RealHousewivesofSLC

[@finaberg3671]

Heather is wildly brave. To put herself out there in such a very public way, to stand under the microscope knowing all the hate that will come her way from telling the truth and hoping to do so with grace, has all my respect. I wish her nothing but good things...and all kinds of strength to her daughters.

[@pixiepancake4970]

I relate so much to what Heather is saying. I was a convert, but never felt that I truly understood Mormon men, or they me. I went to BYU & went on a mission (in order to make my patriarchal blessing come true), but I think I was too sexual for Mormon men. Or too something. I tried to repress my sexuality of course, but I eventually gave up on the notion of absolute purity and felt more like myself. Still, I stayed in the church for 35 years. I eventually married a non-member. If I could do it all again, I would never have joined the church. (I think that it’s hilarious that, like Heather, I live near Walker Lane in Holladay & grew up in Denver.)

[@tracy8359]

I watched this w my husband. When the women where rapid firing typical woman's issues we stopped and talked through the ones I related to. It was nice. Mormon Stories is affordable/free therapy! Donate what you can afford, if you can afford it!

[@kristenlee337]

This interview made me cry. Heather, when you are in the middle of a faith crisis it is so hard. There is so much shame attached to everything. I promise you it gets better. Especially when you are just being true to yourself. You are my absolute favorite on the show. You can do this. Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story. Your friend has your back. You can get through this!

[@debbiebuttars5598]

I completely agree. Heather is so down to earth. She’s a great mother. A great friend. A great business woman. I really have ALL the positive feels for her. The the reasonable one on the RHOSLC.

[@tenleyalexa]

This interview came at the right time for me. My faith crisis began a few months ago. Just turned 28. As a woman, it’s nice to know I’m not alone in how it feels as a woman in the church.

[@jessclark3292]

These ladies are amazing 👏 such a great example of raw truth

[@chikkipop]

Good luck! You're on the right track!

[@theprimalbeast6908]

This really shone a light on the feminine experience being Mormon. I know so many women who’ve felt so robbed by living under the false promises of the gospel. Great interview.

[@whothinksforme]

Amen, couldn't agree more. Great insight into a woman's journey.

[@a.rosec.9184]

I'm a Mormon Stories addict, and as such I'm feeling offended and defensive by some of these comments here. I have literally watched every episode and I truly loved this interview. I find both of these women to be incredibly brave. They are intelligent and strong and beautiful and AMAZING! Also, I love their friendship. you can feel how much they love and care about each other, I'm glad they have each other to lean on and I hope nothing comes between them and their beautiful friendship. Thank you for this interview John.

[@mormonstories]

Amen A. Rose!!!

[@barbsehestedt6894]

AMEN!!!!

[@thetruthdatedr.4766]

Lol my mom watches these like all day

[@LRumore]

I want to go on record that I am on the edge of my seat for part 2.

[@j.ahlberg2058]

Such an honest and warm interview. Any woman can probably relate.

[@ginajensenrealtor8270]

Wow, I couldn’t have loved this more! I hope they know how much we as women can relate to their experiences in and outside the church. The hardship of disappointing believing family members, losing friendships, and in some cases business because we left the church.

[@MonasticSolace]

Only MLM business though. BWAHAHA.

[@kwaintraub2]

Amen to that. Great interview that tells it like it is.

[@abracadanielle9647]

Gotta be honest, I was not expecting much out of this interview. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake sounds like a nightmare that I’ve had a front row seat to my whole life. But these women are incredibly intelligent and have beautiful souls and now I want to watch this stupid show. I relate to Heather in a lot of ways. Those good Mormon boys were never interested in me because I never fit that mold and it was hard for me too.

[@dianethulin1700]

Yes my family was ostracized at church and I never have had a date with a Mormon man in my life. Lucky break there!

[@jaysoncohen8250]

Holy craps me too ! I saw these and im all meh- NO this was like 10 Mormon Stories in one. And this is just the first one. These women are INCREDIBLE .

[@whothinksforme]

Same thoughts! As a man this has given me incredible insight into the woman's journey of a faith crisis.

[@lucylufrank3770]

It’s easy to write off the housewives shows but actually how often do we get to see examples in media of women older than 40 and their issues. Many of them are excelling at business and that’s something I can’t get enough of watching.

[@barbararuiz2690]

The women's behavior on RHOSL is nothing like this. They act in juvenile, self centered, sometimes gross ways but I have to admit, it's highly entertaining.

[@sarahparkin2869]

Heather, I'm in the thick of it right now too, your words resonated with me so deeply. Thank you for speaking, I feel instantly less alone. And I wanted to say you're not alone either.

[@cassandra5516]

How are you doing 3 months since since your comment here? Hopefully in a good and healthy place :-)

[@valerieogborn7820]

Heather is fantastically flawed! Love her because she is so strong, smart, and witty. Love her because she is vulnerable and thinks for herself. A breath of fresh air in a land that stifles individuality.

[@monicabausset7659]

I'll

[@mcamp19]

The pressure on women is so overwhelming. It haunts me still. I'm never good enough.

[@jlynn7333]

Yes you are, never believe that! Please

[@jenniferjj2155]

Wow, I've never listened to such a long video before, but this had my attention the whole time. It was so beautiful to watch these women share their hearts. Thank you for being so vulnerable! I'm not a Mormon, but I've been binge watching ex mormon stories for months. I just really feel for everyone coming out of this and having to find a way to keep going when the rug has been pulled out from under you. The bravery that it takes to face this is so inspiring!

[@Darbymarbes456]

Heather, you are such a brave and bold woman that I admire. I can’t fathom how your family and friends didn’t appreciate you getting the entrepreneur award, even coming behind the 1-800-Contacts guy. You did that girl!!!

[@shannieworkman23]

Wow... one of the best interviews ever!

[@JasmineTheJollyNeurotic]

"As desirable a specimen for marriage as possible." I wasted so many years being on the prowl. This is so relatable. Thank you thank you.

[@redsox19521]

John, you are so right about the level of Heather and Dre's honest dialogue in your interview. These two women have really impressed me and the interaction between all of you has provided much insight into their experience as women raised in the Mormon church. I watched the first four episodes and almost didn't stick with it because the characters seemed so shallow. Kudos to both of them and to your empathic style and connections. I loved your own vulnerability here when you revealed your lack of experience in a non Mormon culture. Try a cup of coffee sometime. it is absolutely glorious in the morning!!

[@janegriffith8021]

I’ll be honest: I was (ignorantly!) expecting to not like these women. Boy, was I wrong! I’m so impressed. Both Dre and Heather are so thoughtful and articulate. I related to nearly everything they said. They have my kudos and applause! Thank you for being the voices for so many LDS/ex-LDS women. ❤️

[@CherylNunn_0]

Thanks, John for interviewing Heather & Dre. They are exceptional women, blazing a new trail, telling their life experience with brutal honesty! I started watching their show before this interview. I had noticed Heather was unique among the other Salt Lake Housewives in her efforts to bridge catfights and drama with sincere friendship and empathy. I hope Heather reads this, as I would like her to know that while she is midstream her faith crisis, I'm about 5 years after the end of mine. There is light at the end of this long dark night! She is welcome to Kim' Turner's WOCA group anytime! It has been very helpful for me and others like Heather to find a place to have the support that is missed once you leave the Church.

[@JustJ-Me]

I also saw how empathetic, patient and more understanding she was. That made her stand out as a good person to me. For her it seems natural. Empathy isn't something you necessarily learn from doctrine or church. I hope she knows she'll be a "good person" even without being a member.

[@brockmadsen4028]

Thank you thank you thank you, Heather! I feel seen and understood. “I believe all of it. And I believe none of it.” Exactly how I feel.

[@sanachristian4577]

Love is the most important part of the gospel. Anything that detracts or distracts from this is not of God. Pretty simple. But wreaks havoc with questionable things.

[@williamserink]

Her quote sums things up perfectly!

[@kendrahandy1937]

Thank you both!! When Dre talked about finding a identity after Mormonism and that struggle I felt it. When Heather talked about Mormonism always being a part of my identity I felt that-- because being ex-mormon is still a label and defined by Mormon beliefs. And the heartache of not following what you believe because of family I felt that. The Mormon wife and woman roles, I feel. Losing my virginity and losing my stance to a degree--I feel. So grateful there will be more.

[@barbsehestedt6894]

Heather, sweetie, even though I have left the church I want you to know that your love of its principles is touching. Thank you for opening your tender heart to all of us. And I love you, too, Dre!!!

[@pjpoet1]

I officially love Heather Gay! So much more to her than is shown on RHSLC!!

[@adammcguk]

What an incredible and authentic episode. Thanks to all.

[@awilk07]

Heather I was where you were a year ago and it is so hard. It gets better I promise! I never thought I would see myself saying that. It seemed like I would be angry and scared and frustrated forever. But I have been able to move on and I'm discovering who I am now at 33 and it's wonderful. I'm behind in somethings but glad I get a 2nd Chance to do it how I want rather than how I'm told. Thank you too both ladies Dre and Heather both spoke so well. I hope there is a part 2

[@jlynn7333]

I loved Heather for her vulnerability but how I adore her. My heart bleeds for her and her faith crisis. I believe she’ll find her way. Can’t wait for part 2!

[@sweetz6703]

This was such a powerful episode, of the 10-20 stories I’ve listened to, this is the first I’ve come across with someone in the middle of a faith transition and I found it very impactful and emotionally evocative.

[@whats3219]

I really liked this interview! Thank you Dre, Heather, and John. I relate to much of this. I think that some of the things said here have really been helpful to me in my faith transition.

[@susan5978]

literally every interview you do is gold. thank you again john for the endless hours of real stories- these have so so much value and these conversations are really helping people

[@michaelbeebern9984]

John, this is one of your best videos. I've had to consume it in small doses, but these two ladies are amazing and hearing them tell their stories has been incredibly enlightening. And I've watched almost every one of your videos. Great work!

[@camilleleavitt5383]

Loved this ❤️😭. Thank you for sharing.

[@t.thompson9977]

Beautiful interview. Both of these women are incredible.

[@spunkycat6144]

I love the way the storyteller (John) puts the stories together from way back so we get the whole picture.

[@chigal0926]

My time living in Utah, I could never understand why Mormonism discourages girls/women from an education?? Anything can happen in life; a woman has to be prepared to take care of herself if her spouse is gone, either through divorce, illness, or death. One of my former colleagues was a social worker for the homeless, and former Mormon. He told he had to deal with a lot of homeless Mormon women with a lot of children whose husbands left them. It was tragic. They had no skills to support all those kids. This is crazy.

[@kg8208]

John, what an incredible interview. When I first heard about RHWOSLC, I gave the first episode a try. I’m personally not into reality TV, but I thought I would give it a shot, especially after hearing all of the buzz from the Mormon community. I couldn’t make it through the first episode, as it all seemed so fake to me. I was skeptical of how this interview would go. These women have incredible stories. They are deep articulate humans. My heart was so touched to hear from them today. I am eagerly awaiting part two! Thank you so much.

[@JustJ-Me]

I'm with ya on all that

[@rootintobeing]

Yes to these women and their voices!! You speak for so many of us. 💗 Everything from being all-in, being all the "high status" callings, knowing the doctrine inside and out, knowing all the hymns... to going from housewife to a divorced single mom... thank you for helping all of us feel seen and heard.

[@mariegriffin2365]

This interview was so heart-felt and Brave! I found I could really relate to both womens stories to some degree, mind you I've never stepped foot in Utah and I'm a X Canadian mormon lol I've never really spoken about what it feels like to leave the church or really been able to articulate what its like. Heather's open and raw words touched me deeply. Thank you ladies I don't feel so alone or different in my journey today❤

[@user-qy6lz6xi1i]

Such courage! I’m a never-mo, but have been listening to MS for years. I’ve learned that it is a hard journey for you to leave.

[@skorqion_art]

Both of them are so brave and I am glad that I was able to hear them talk about their experiences! Much love to all of you guys!

[@happix-mo4441]

Oh my! Everything these ladies said, resonated deeply with me! EVERYTHING you both said 100% I could be both of you in this interview, from sex shaming, disappointing parents, perfectionism, Temple, etc. Thank you, thank you for doing this interview!

[@KikiD400]

Words can not explain how profound and meaningful I have found this episode. Thank you for sharing

[@angelahill-henson8061]

I love these women already!! Looking forward to Part 2! I shared this on my FB. 😌I want everyone to see and listen to this amazing interview. Supporting John Dehlin, always! ❤️

[@kweller3]

I'm watching this interview again, these two ladies are just so lovely to listen to

[@CrookedSteph]

Kudos ladies. Such a hard journey out! Onward and upward, no looking back!❤️

[@karicoleman3548]

Thank you so much Dre and Heather ❤️ What you have to say is extremely valuable. Please come back!

[@u2sweetestallie]

Besides the interview being top notch, I loved this setting. Great cozy atmosphere. Well done

[@jameswalberg3265]

You have left me wanting more !!! Kind is a very good description of these brave women. They are totally believable and non-threatening. They will reach a whole new audience with "Real Housewives". I continue to be amazed by these stories with all their twists and turns.

[@Dave.Blomfield]

Really enjoying this podcast. The sentiments and stories shared are relatable in so many ways.

[@gyptianwifeey]

Omg! I just found Mormon stories and have been watching so many of these amazing interview but I am a TRUE REAL HOUSEWIVES FAN and this interview is everything to me ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ loving these ladies sharing their stories!

[@8squishyfishy8]

Amazing content, I am so grateful to be able to hear this conversation and learn and grow with them. Also a lot of audio issues with this, echoing problems, synch issues... Anyway.. I LOVE THESE GALS! Thanks for talking with them and sharing their stories.

[@davidhowarth2680]

Loved this interview.

[@Will0wFire]

What an insightful interview. So far everything I've learned has been from a man's perspective, and now here are two very bright, articulate strong women who are telling us about a woman's life in the LDS. I am delighted and hopeful that their daughters will have a different experience as they grow up. You are inspiring!

[@aubrytrude]

This was wonderful. Thank you for sharing. I could definitely relate so much! Being a woman in the church.

[@ozymandias6743]

Amazing interview, Heather and Dre. Thanks for sharing!

[@tamidawn8383]

WOW! So heartened to hear my own experience echoed with these beautiful women! I would honestly have to say that almost every choice/decision I have made in life would have been different if the church wasn’t in it. Thank you for this! Thank you both for your vulnerability and bravery. ❤️

[@hairdresser1300]

I had no idea. Bravo Heather and Dre for your heartfelt shares

[@laurawayman1434]

I love that you cross all lines of culture and academia with your guests. Truth be told, the real housewives franchise helped me through my tough years of up all night babies and stress from not being a “perfect Mormon mom”. The crossover, especially during this time when I’m done with the church but still sad, is so needed!!!!

[@grilledcheeseandsoup1652]

Wow! This was so powerful. I cried.

[@lynnetteannett7302]

Love the real sentiment. Very smart, human, sharing deep grief so eloquently! Praying for you and your families

[@anniephenix]

This interview is SO MUCH more interesting than the Tv show - which is purely for entertainment and for showing cat fights as far as I can tell. These women are smart, funny, wise and have so much more depth to them than the show bothered to share with us. Great interview!!!

[@humanbeing5396]

22:10 LOL! “Mission field.” I hear your laugh John. I laughed too. I served in Idaho and first heard that term used there. Us missionaries that served there always got a good chuckle when we heard that.

[@kweller3]

YES! Heather hit so many things bam right on the head. Great episode

[@user-pp5jg4vq9r]

Heather, girl I am right there with you! I am from rural Utah and I’m so on the fence with my faith crisis! 😢

[@mayritaysabel]

At 35:02-35:21 was very triggering for me. I felt the same way towards my parents during my adolescent years. I’m no longer in the church and I have never felt so free. Psychology, I struggle with my mental health on a daily basis and I believe it’s due to feeling guilty,and not good enough on a regular basis. I just discovered you channel and i have been binge watching every episode like Netflix 😂Most of here stories have helped me feel secure about my decision on leaving the church 3 years ago .

[@cazsteer6785]

I am not a reality TV show fan but these women have blown me away. They are incredibly articulate, very reflective on their own experiences and those of the community but it's the strength that these women have; to have conviction in their decisions, to articulate issues without judgement, to have courage to start from scratch and to be emotionally vulnerable in this interview. Baffles me why the church wouldn't want female leaders when you have such amazing women in your brood. 👏🙇‍♀️

[@rubendhoyos9886]

2:25:00 yes it’s super hard getting out of that circular logic. Whenever I would not be successful, I would question whether it was because I left the church.

[@TheDALLAS0808]

John. I’ve been trying to figure out a way to get my TBM wife into Mormon stories and this is the interview that did it. Thank you!

[@anthonydurling4093]

In contrast to my views and comment on Lynn's interview, this was freaking amazing!!!! Wow John!!! These beautiful women are amazing and you and they did such a fantastic job being truthful and vulnerable. My 16 yr old listened in and said "What do you mean women feel pressure in the church?." He had no idea and it opened a conversation with him. Thank you. Great job can't wait for part two.

[@MC-ec7en]

Heather, I love you and what you have shared. I wish there were more members like your parents. I watch this channel to have a better understanding of what people feel and think who have left the church. I’m an active member who converted years ago as a young adult. There seems to be a lot of pressure and expectations when growing up in the church, especially in Utah. I live in San Diego and lived in Provo for a short period of time. It’s very interesting because I had a hard time “attracting” guys out there but I never had a problem getting dates with nonmembers. It hurt but it helped me grow and helped me be a better person. I married a great guy who wasn’t a member when we met. We were sealed in the temple and are truly happy. He is smart, spiritual and grew up having a best friend who who was your typical lds person as far as fitting the mold. I don’t feel the pressure and judgement from our families to be a certain way or perfect because they aren’t members. I have a strong testimony of the restored gospel and love it although I’ve struggled with not judging members who I felt should be nicer, more honest, more humble etc. but their the problem not the church. Anyways, I see a ton of friends leaving the church and it makes me sad but I still want to be their friend and respect their decision. However, I would appreciate the same respect was returned by the people who have decided to not believe in the church to current active members.

[@gigi1332]

I appreciate this Mormon stories so much. Finding out that I was lied to about EVERYTHING as a "Golden Covert" still just hurts so much. I found some hope for being better as a woman watching this so I thank you.

[@sportsfan911]

HEATHER: I love you. You are REAL. You are genuine. You are Amazing! Thank you for sharing your story, your heartfelt feelings. Keep going!

[@rachaelkopp3792]

Heather & Whitney are my favorites!! I'm obsessed with RHOSLC! Heather your on the right track, keep it up! You will get there. It takes time to unwind everything you have learned and thought was right your whole life! Your teaching your daughters to be strong independent women. Sending you HUGE hugs! Your so smart and brave. Love you so much!

[@zjaneg]

Heather Gay, you are liberating so many many people with your testimony. I was an ordained minister and relate so much to your journey. I pray you connect to this new calling and are able to see that God is so much bigger than any denomination!!! You are a leader and are beautiful and brilliant and wildly gifted beyond any box.

[@sanachristian4577]

Brave and intelligent ladies. Thank you.

[@Fermerswife]

Wow this is powerful!

[@deannapowell7237]

I've been hoping so much that you have Heather on your podcast. She is my favorite housewife. So brave. So real. Love her!!

[@rampla]

Hey John. I love the work you do. I wanted to offer a tip. I'm not a professional, but when you have the camera on you, it makes me dizzy when you look at the camera and then back at the people you interview so much. I would say, just look at them, or at the camera....or slow the transition. Im guessing you are trying to make sure you are attending to your audience And your interviewee....but it ended up being hard for me to watch. Just my own experience. Still Loved this interview....just wanted to pass that along.

[@jillgott6567]

I love shows like yours . I learn about other religions , cultures and so on. Thanks

[@johnellebeach13]

Heather is so relatable. And I'm not and never have been Mormon. This touched my heart and made me cry...a few times. Im over here just frying chicken and was totally not expecting to feel this way. Lol..thank u. I needed that.

[@jaysoncohen8250]

These women were amazing but how good was John D here ? He was perfect in guiding these ladies to one of the best Mormon stories ever.--' So good.

[@MsSkeletonchild]

Wow, when Heather got choked up after talking about her missionary work in France, I *felt* that. These women are incredibly well-spoken and brave for laying themselves bare in this podcast, I'm really impressed.

[@elizabethpower7897]

It’s pretty amazing when you grill Heather about the Mormon doctrine and she still remembers all of it even though I don’t think she believes all of it the same way she used to. I hope she can use the part of her brain that she used to study all of that to do something else that she actually wants to do.

[@flowersandmore4644]

Love these interviews! I’ve been JW my whole life and last few years been waking up to what is really bad about religion. I’m still in the in-between like her I guess. I mentioned to my elders that there’s no place to be a casual believer like me. They didn’t know how to respond.

[@maries2419]

I love Heather! She is my favorite housewife on Salt Lake so I will watch anything that she is a part of. I have watched other episodes of Mormon stories podcast and always find them extremely informative and well done. I have been fascinated with Mormonism since Mitt Romney ran for president and i investigated and read up on the Mormon faith and was absolutely shocked that a party that is predominantly born-again Christian were not alarmed at the Mormon implication. For me as a non-Mormon I have always thought that Mormons seemed extremely lovely and devoted but I have never been blind to the arrogance and chosen ones vibe.

[@laurapulsipher450]

Heather it gets better. You are beautiful inside and out. Thank you for sharing your truth ❤

[@oscarjohnson9295]

I haven’t watched the housewives program yet. Actually I didn’t even know it existed, but I will now. Dre and Heather are lovely women. Thank you for spotlighting them John and thank you Dre and Heather for sharing what you did. I am a card carrying member of the church and love the principles I learned growing up in the church. The most important principle I have learned is personal revelation.

[@hp7548]

I absolutely love this interview!! Dre and Heather, thank you so much for speaking out and sharing your struggles/journey. Heather, I am in the thick of it as well. Of course, I had to dive deep into my faith crisis after moving to Utah year ago 🤪 Being surrounded by mormon culture that is magnified by being in Utah has made my struggle more difficult. I love everything that both of you said! I relate to so much of it and want to find people like to be in my life as I begin distancing myself from the faith. I am excited to start watching RHOSLC. I am happy to hear about the issues that are being talked about on the show. Don't stop doing what you are doing. I feel heard, accepted, validated, and hopeful after listening to your interview. ❤ It's people like you who help me and so many others to live authentically and let go of shame. It is exciting and terrifying to forge a new path but I get strengthened by your words.

[@williamserink]

These women are lovely, articulate, & so real. Thank you for this interview! I'm so sorry Heather has been getting backlash for being vocal about her questions. "If we have truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed." -J. Reuben Clark

[@emilyannesmith1990]

I love that Heather talks about being "big." I IDENTIFY with all of that. lol. Just love her sm!

[@nsifonte]

I’m a doctor and I don’t live in Utah. During my residency, I went to visit a friend that lived there. People’s reactions when my friend told them I was a doctor were so shocking to me. Women looked at me, half with an angry expression the other half amazed and proud. Men looked at me dumbfounded and confused and, dare I say, intimidated. I remember a lady that was thrilled I was a pediatrician and asked me where was my office because her daughter was asking for a female physician and she hadn’t been able to found one which left me speechless. I felt awkward. I only met two guys that responded favorably towards my profession and the rest treated me as if I was something to be squashed. AND I WAS FULLY MORMON AT THAT TIME! Granted, I was always very vocal and argumentative but still full mormon. I didn’t put that one on the shelf, I fully carried it and showed it to anyone that was willing. Definitely disappointed of my experience there. I think I would return to visit since it is a beautiful state but now as a post-mormon female I may be able to shut down stupidity even more readily than before.

[@raquelrobello4142]

I would love to hear Heather discuss race, she's covered women and gays so well, It would be nice to hear how she explains the Mormon view on race. Not because I think she's wrong but because she's so well-spoken and straightforward, it would be good to have someone just say it as it is. I'm not Mormon, but I live in Utah and I've never gotten a straight answer on those topics, ever. So thank you - for answering a question.

[@barbhugheschapman268]

I can sooooo relate. And I really relate to Dray’s mom. The perfectionism is the biggest thing of all.

[@CrystalBbyUSA]

Hey I know this comment is old so maybe you won't see this but if you do can you explain? I have never been Mormon but I've been watching a lot of ex Mormon stuff lately and the one thing that really sticks out to me is the perfectionism, esp around physical appearance when it comes to women. It seems sooo intimidating and competitive in a really bad way. It sounds like you felt that?

[@barbhugheschapman268]

@@CrystalBbyUSA it’s very true. I was raised by parents who cared so much about their reputation and how our family had to never make a mistake. Because, you know-- what would people think. My mom is from the south so we were not allowed to leave the house without our hair and makeup on. Our house was always spotless and clean. I would love to chat more with you. Barb

[@jaysoncohen8250]

Wow. This is so powerful. I learned so much from a woman's perspective. I mean I knew. But I didn't KNOW KNOW.

[@angelamarsters9169]

Heather is the most natural, real,down to earth genuine lovely person in that show ❤

[@povfwm12]

More celebrities need to speak out!!

[@protected1836]

Great respect, admiration, and empathy for Heather and Dre - Appreciate their honesty, openness, and vulnerability, wish them the very best. Bless them:)

[@dianethulin1700]

My sister who lives in Utah once told me that she is okay with gays as long as they don't push their lifestyle on her. She said this without irony although her son was on a mission to push the Mormon lifestyle. Crazy disconnect there! She was proud that she was more progressive than in the past. I guess it was a step up from when she told me she loved me anyway even though I have gay friends.

[@JustBrii]

I want to hug her omg she has a bursting heart 🥰

[@mariwitzel4953]

this was amazing to listen to and i could relate to what they said and what they experienced growing up as mormon! and i’m sorry that heather has gotten lash back from the mormon community i think you’ve said nothing but the truth

[@laurapulsipher450]

Thank you for speaking up for the gays!! Both my children are gay and have been deeply affected by mormons treatment her in Utah