Bad Mormon: Author Heather Gay from Real Housewives of Salt Lake City | Ep. 1727

Between attending orthodox services, embarking on an eighteen-month mission, attending Brigham Young University, and marrying into a "royal" family, Heather was the definition of a "good Mormon." However, when the doting wife's husband unexpectedly filed for divorce, she was left out in the cold by her church and her community. In this funny, brash, and unbelievably vulnerable book, Bad Mormon recounts Heather's experiences as a single mother to three girls, navigating life post-divorce and post-Mormonism.
Bad Mormon: A Memoir by Heather Gay amz.run/6Mk3
00:00:00 Introduction & Real Housewives recap
00:05:55 Why write the book
00:10:03 Heather’s “Mormon CV”
00:15:44 Book Theme: Becoming a working mom and professional
00:17:15 Mormonism was the center of Heather’s universe
00:20:01 Heather thought Mormon garments were normal underwear for everyone
00:21:15 Reading: Heather learns not everyone is or even likes Mormons
00:26:17 Hosanna Shout
00:29:15 Book Theme: Temple rituals & Patriarchal Grip
00:34:10 Baptism & the shame of first sins after
00:40:11 Reading: Story of planning her daughter’s perfect baptism
00:42:30 External rituals fuel internal pressure to meet expectations
00:43:38 Adolescence in Holladay, inappropriate Bishops interviews
00:45:50 Ecclesiastical abuse from Bishop’s persistent questioning over masturbation
00:47:40 High-demand religions teach members to lie & lose themselves
00:53:30 Reading: James Barnes III background to the story,
00:56:30 Personality too big for the men at BYU
00:58:10 Reading: Dinner in the Tree Room
01:00:00 Processing pain through humor
01:01:36 Heather’s only moment feeling like a whole woman
01:04:18 Meets & marries Mormon “royalty” Billy Gay.
01:07:40 Heather feels an equal to Billy until after marriage when status becomes obvious
01:11:03 Heather & Billy betray themselves for church & marriage.
01:15:00 The church rushes young marriage to the detriment of most couples
01:17:40 Big life things force us through our public facades to face the truth
01:19:10 By clinging to those gospel tenants leads us away from our children.
01:19:50 Why she does NOT identify as “Bad Mom”
01:23:22 Being able to give daughters the ability to have the connection to self she lost.
01:25:16 Heather discusses her loss of faith
01:28:58 Finding the strength and courage to respect and share her story
01:31:08 Ready to start deconstructing Mormon history
01:33:33 Heather felt more fake & performative as Mormon housewife than on reality TV show, Real Housewives SLC
01:38:32 “Wickedness” has been absolute happiness for me.
01:40:00 Heather’s legal issues with the Church & Attorney Casey Jones
01:47:55 Church’s fear of bad PR in excommunicating famous people
01:48:30 Giving voices to a silenced community
01:51:00 Real Housewives Update
01:53:00 Reactions
01:54:45 The truth is ALL Mormons are bad Mormons.
01:55:00 Heather hopes Mormon women feel seen when they read this book
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
ABOUT US:
Mormon Stories Podcast is the longest-running and most successful podcast in Mormonism - hosted by Dr. John Dehlin. At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also occasionally interview scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1) Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology, 2) Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis, and 3) Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions.
Mormon Stories Podcast is a product of the Open Stories Foundation - a 501c3 non-profit dedicated to supporting Mormons in religious transition.
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[@Lizzycar92]

Heather’s first interview on MS was the beginning of the end for me. It popped up as a suggestion on KZbin and out of curiosity I listened. It was the first time I realized that I wasn’t alone in my experiences. I completely fell down the MS rabbit hole and couldn’t stop listening. Hours and hours and hours of MS. I was one of those Mormons that had no clue about “all the things.” Thanks to Heather for being a safe interview for a believing Mormon and thanks to MS for the body of work cataloged that allowed me to untangle 48 years of indoctrination. I’m so glad to be thriving as a Bad Mormon! I’ll be picking up my copy tomorrow.

[@ozymandias6743]

The "MS Rabbit Hole" got me too.... I and my wife and children are all happily ex-Mormon.

[@BebbaDubbs]

I'm so proud of you both. I have no place in any of these stories, but just as a fellow educator and therapy minded person, I admire y'all for your work!

[@kimmychan1967]

SAME!!!!!

[@ozymandias6743]

@@BebbaDubbs I cannot express to you how deep the Mormon mind f*** goes. My wife's, a board certified physician, I'm an attorney. We were in the church for 40 years. The hardest thing I have ever done in my life is walk away from the LDS church, despite the fact that I was positive, it is false. How crazy does that all sound? 🙂

[@gatherin_in_podcast]

I am collecting stories of conversion to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[@sharonkranz2517]

I started watching Mormon Stories a week ago. I’m a 58 yo non-Mormon, native of Utah who was never allowed in my Mormon friends homes. I am blown away by these interviews. They are so incredibly powerful. My heart and prayers go out to all these people. I can already see they have the power of God leading them every step of the way. The peace I see in their faces by the end of their interviews is so beautiful. Heather is beautiful! 💛

[@katem2411]

@D Soule that you're defensive and attempting to deflect are both pretty strong signs that this comment struck a nerve. Mormons being exclusionary to outsiders (whatever that means to the person doing the excluding) is pretty common, and it creates a poor impression of the family and the church. And that negative impression is born out of personal rejection, which means it is likely to override any positive associations that the church's charitable arms may provide.

[@scottpirraglio8796]

😢

[@scottpirraglio8796]

😢

[@maddssmithy]

why werent you allowed in their houses?

[@sharonkranz2517]

@@maddssmithy - because I wasn’t Mormon and was being raised by my single mother who was also a smoker. It was in the early 70’s, so we were considered outcasts in those days.

[@veronicar7633]

Her conversation about touching herself, brings me to tears. No child, teen, or person should ever have to disclose such personal and confusing details about themselves under pressure. I’m very appreciative of her interview, but it also greatly disturbs me for my younger sisters and what they’re going through. Thank you, and it’s truly sad what’s we go through here. 😔

[@bobbiejones9266]

This is disgusting! No one should ever need to disclose personal things about themselves in order to be accepted and welcomed in a religious sect!

[@cameronm.2352]

No child, teen, or person should ever learn to communicate about how their body is changing, what a dumb thing to say.

[@RosyJreams]

I hope the church fights really hard and makes a big splash in the media- and then I hope that you WIN BIG Heather! 🤣😂

[@urpower939]

Yes!!

[@cyasmiles4613]

I have never watched the series, no idea who Heather was before today. I am amazed by the parallels of our lives. I was in Colorado at the temple dedication and also moved to Utah the same as Heather. I am moved to tears and appreciation for our similarities. Hearing a voice beyond my own with validation.

[@janangel3708]

When you go through a divorce in the church, you are definitely treated differently. Been there done that.

[@audraneale7923]

Do not agree. I have never been treated any differently.

[@janangel3708]

@@audraneale7923 you are likely not typical, then.

[@TS-iv9ml]

Then @audraneale u didn't have kids.. when my father walked out on his temple marriage and forever family for another woman (baptized her abd took her to the temple!) and her kids we NO LONGER HAD A PLACE IN THE MORMON CHURCH it's all very exclusive and REQUIRES a father/husband & mother/wife. It's preached in e v e r y t h i n g BUT I give thanks I never fit 😇 when my husband was "erased & ghosted" I FINALLY had someone I could share my life's experiences and let him know I support him whatever he decided but here is the REAL Deal I LIVED IT inspite of both pioneer ancestors who were in handcart companies. The church company restored my great great great grandfather's in Parowan and kept his handwritten journal. I have alot of questions of my ancestors. We are so grateful the truths are finally out and available! #wegotout #grateful #lovinglife #ex-moes #eyeswideopen

[@joeswife]

Not my experience. Got nothing but love and support from every member I know.

[@joharrison6014]

I gotta see this. She must be powerful, because I never have known the lds to "sue" an individual until now. I (for one) already support her 100%.

[@SISMACify]

It's a trademark issue

[@joharrison6014]

@@SISMACify I see.

[@LizzaJo]

ex husband is...

[@TS-iv9ml]

@SISMACify which is why they are running from the word M0rmon... if they believe as they say Revelation from God have the name of the church....apparently God has the original copyright... quite the multilevel marketing company smh

[@crazymusiclady]

I had the same experience. Only my husband took my kids and my ward's only concern was that I show up to do my duty as a Primary pianist. So much for compassion!

[@LauraOttawa]

The church obviously feels threatened by her because she's so smart and independent

[@drolandsmith]

Smart? That’s 😂

[@timlarson6923]

@@drolandsmith did you even watch the video bruh 💀. She is pretty articulate

[@bettycrocking]

Yes, she is so articulate that I am afraid of her. That’s my problem and I am trying to get over the bias.

[@BrigitteDiessl]

I watched Heather and Dre's interview together earlier last year and it was clear that Heather was really struggling with being an ex-Mormon and was being really tough on herself. As a never-Mo and a widow of 16 years (I was 37 and it was sudden and unexpected) it made me so sad that she felt she wasn't a whole person or a good person (which, for me, includes being a good or not good mother.) I'm so heartened to see how well she is doing, now. The book sounds amazing. I'm going to get the audiobook and listen to it. It's hard to be an amazing Mum without a partner. You're suddenly grieving but supposed to be a great Mum and you have young kids and people judge you no matter what. In this interview, Heather has smiled so much and it's great to see.

[@kaesmithmusic]

Interesting that I'm one of the many never-been-Mormon subscribers -- I had no idea there were so many others! Thank you, Heather Gay, for being so open about your story. Thank you, Margi, for always being such a wonderful, smart, thoughtful, kind co-host. And thank you, John, for all you do to bring these podcasts to us. They have truly helped me in my journey from a different high-stress religion to a joyful, peaceful, calm spiritual path. It's such a difficult transition, and hearing/seeing others that have made it through safe and sound continues to help me put the past in the past and look to a much brighter future. Many bright blessings to all three of you!

[@TLCTEXAS]

Baptist 70 yr old and I’m enjoying learning about the Mormon cult. Love Heather❤

[@JT0007]

💯 cult 🇺🇸

[@Ms.Stephanie.C]

My 1st “sin” after my baptism was I slapped my younger brother in the car ….. on the way home from my baptism ….. because he was annoying me. I felt so horrible like I couldn’t even be clean for a couple hours. Someone (can’t remember who) said something about how all the people who got baptized before me, all their sins were floating in the water when I got baptized, & it really bothered me because I was thinking the sins were going to stick to me. I didn’t even want to get baptized because my oldest brother had just come home from serving a mission & he told me that I HAD TO KNOW the church was true before I got baptized or it was really bad. I asked my mom not to make me do it yet (because I didn’t KNOW), but she made me anyways. I don’t have good memories of getting baptized at age 8.

[@pscCRPS]

Ewww. sounds like nasty dirty water!

[@Ms.Stephanie.C]

@@pscCRPS from a bunch of 8 year olds….. yeah. 😅

[@Sali-yw1rd]

Wow sounds like the perfect moment to kickstarts OCD … religious ocd or call it whatever you want. But the nasty words and ideas that were planted in you really sound like the thoughts an OCD suffering person could have

[@michelemiller3798]

I have got to read her book! I was raised LDS by parents whose families were Mormon. I never went full into believing - my 3 older sisters - my sisters. My oldest sister is 6 yrs older so when I was 12 her guy friends were getting ready for their missions. They were on my front porch & mentioned that if our parents didn't get baptized & weren't sealed in the temple we wouldn't be together in heaven. I told them "I don't believe that." They were quite surprised by that & cited the sources of that. That didn't sway me, I just didn't believe a loving God would do that. I'm grateful I had that strength/independence starting pretty young. I stayed in the church - but half of my friends weren't LDS - until the church still was denying black men the priesthood & that the church were so against the ERA. That was it for me, there's a limit to what you can take on faith!

[@bobbiejones9266]

As an ex Mormon I remember that there were many things I questioned from a very early age. I also remember being told when I asked questions that I was to have Faith, Believe, and obey and never question what I was taught in Church!! Also bring female I was realized early on that I was treated as a secondary person behind the men and boys. I was being taught to subjugate myself to men and that when I married I was to subject myself to my husband in all things, to obey as the head of our home. As a very independent , strong willed, deep thinking woman, none of this sat well with me!! My husband laughed at me and ridiculed me when I decided I wanted to go to college and have a career. He informed me my place was in the home, having children, and taking care of HIS needs! I rebelled totally. Got a friend to take me to make my own arrangements, got my own student loans, and started college! When I got my first job he demanded I hand my pay check over to him. This from a man who refused to put my name on our checking account or even give me any money at all. HE took me to grocery store and paid for everything himself. He was very emotionally abusive!! And I found out that from the very beginning of our marriage he had affairs with other women. I got steel resolve to my spine and I left him!! And I even left the Church because the Bishop admonished me to not have any relationships with men, date or entertain any form of intimacy because I was already showing low morals by being divorced!!! I have had an amazing life since that time. I also have a personal relationship with my Heavenly Father without being a Mormon!!!

[@JustJ-Me]

As a Never-Mo who grew up with one side of my family being devout LDS/ Mormons, I really love hearing Heather and her experiences as well as everyone else at MSP discussing their experiences. You all are incredible ❤️

[@JustJ-Me]

I just wanted to add that I really enjoyed seeing the vast difference in Heather from her first time on the podcast versus now. She seems so empowered, less conflicted, and I'm loving that for her.

[@janangel3708]

I remember an interview with my bishop to do Baptisms for the dead...I was probably 14ish. He asked me about honesty. I said that I was honest, but had probably told white lies at some point. He told me I couldn't get a recommemd, until I repented. I remember coming out of his office and bawling. My parents were really upset and called the bishop. He went ahead and wrote me a recommend. I was afraid of temple interviews after that. Purity bs

[@bobbiejones9266]

We are only human and our Heavenly Father knows this! That is why his son took out son's upon himself to give us the ability to be forgiven and to strive to do the best we can! NO ONE IS PERFECT!! And ,yes, there are really good people and really bad people on this Earth!! We must leave it to our Heavenly Father to judge us and our intentions!!

[@Holy_hand-grenade]

I confessed to mine that I watched porn and smoked weed about that same age and that was a wrap for my career as a Mormon. No thanks.

[@davidandersen9177]

Agreed ~ Doing the hosanna shout felt totally awkward and when I did it I was a koolaid drinking Mormon at the time.

[@anitah2404]

It felt contrived and theatrical to me.

[@danawood5859]

My parents were Mormon in Carson city Nv when I was little then divorced. Left church and on my own as teenager went back to the church in Tigard Oregon. then left after high school! That sums up my Mormon experience.

[@immortalfool7627]

Good for you.

[@jimbo6074]

Interesting personal note: Dre made a comment in the MS episodes 2 years ago that sent me down a rabbit role and out of the mormon church for good. So this comes full circle for me as well!

[@ahuntervtedu]

Ooh - what was the comment?

[@sar8349]

Interesting about Heather's mom. I grew up Baptist. Many years ago, I was confronted with the fact I was a poser. I will not go into the details, but it became really clear that I had been indoctrinated into the mindset of what a perfect christian woman, wife, mother looked like. Not that emulating something good is wrong, but when you lose yourself in it, it can be devastating. I remember the day I looked at my house and could not see myself in it - not in the decor, not in the carefully organized and clean kitchen, closets, and bathrooms, not in the pictures on the walls, and thought to myself, "What is this? Whose is this?" I realized I believed I needed to live up to an image in order to be acceptable in that environment and not only that, to be acceptable to God. It was a hard transition. I did not give up on God, but I did give up on "church". Thankfully, I was able to come out on the other side. One last observation for anyone who made it this far in this comment. Religion is death. It is designed to control. Having a covenant relationship with your Creator is totally different and life giving and self-affirming. PS. the bishop interviews sound like the auditing of scientology.

[@deannapowell7237]

I CAN'T WAIT to watch Heather and Dre's miniseries about JS from the eyes of Emma. This will be so cool!!

[@TheLazyhomesteader]

Exmormon mom here! My oldest is 6 and then I have two others, i would love to see an episode all about helping Exmormon parents navigate parenting the difficult conversations outside of the church, like relationships, dating, sex all of that! Also I resonated with her so much when she said she was that 10 year old girl who woke up one day and realized she was going to have to change who she was to be loved and liked. Wow

[@rebeccaonetwo]

What a beautiful and authentic soul Heather is!!! Bravo!!! ❤

[@peggys121]

I TOTALLY judged her wrong. “RHSLC”….. automatic “attention seeker with money from husband…”. I’m happy to say, “BOY! AM I WRONG!!!” Eye opener.

[@smilingjacks83]

Evangelical Christian in UK for 30 years and attended church since birth 10 years before. I can see now how it's seen as 'high demand'. In process of deconstructing my faith as an LGBTQIA+ disabled and chronically ill Christian. Can relate to surprising nurmber of stories featured. Looking forward to reading Heather's book. Appreciate this podcast so much. Thank you John.

[@tamaralambert5251]

Watch as many as you would like, as they are so helpful to see people on the other side of this journey, no matter what that journey is

[@missylee3022]

Mormon stories has been very healing for my exvangelical queer ass as well 🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡

[@juliebrooke6099]

@@allensantee1591 and yet He made them all in His image supposedly. Why don’t you follow Jesus’ example and love other people? If you can’t be kind just keep quiet.

[@smilingjacks83]

@Julie Brooke thank you Julie 😊

[@missylee3022]

@Allen Santee can you please delete this. It's extremely triggering to queer people with religious trauma syndrome. Not to mention we already know your god hates us. Like everyone knows that.

[@eyestorm3]

That the Church is suing Heather over this showcases how corporate it’s become. It’s actually really sad and disillusioning for me. :( They would do much better by just loving people, and focusing on their own work serving. They’re only hurting themselves and stoking the fire of people leaving. Oh, and to the Church: I can I totally picture Jesus pursuing law suits…(said no one, ever).

[@eyestorm3]

@@dsoule4902 Thank you- my comment stands in that it’s the overall point of fixating on such legal battles that in my mind move them away from the essence of Christianity (and far beyond what they claim so much to be- the very church of Christ) to the embodiment of a corporation that cares more about image, wealth, power, and control. I’m saying that they’re only shooting themselves in the foot by traveling down these paths. It just underscores the evidence that they are a business at the expense of their claimed Christian message. This battle with Heather and team is not going to work well for them image-wise in the end, and they would do well to focus their energy and money on helping people- letting things like this go.

[@glendastansbury5702]

As a never-Mo who is a lifelong student of cults and high demand organizations, MS is #1 on my subscriptions list. The ironic part of my early years is that I was sent to Vernal UT in 1975 to work with the Baptist church there as a summer missionary. So the LDS missionaries and I had a great time having conversations. (Baptist preachers kid who left that faith decades ago) I so enjoyed Heather and Dre’s interviews-all of them-and promptly purchased the audio book. Honesty and vulnerability and compassion is what will save the world. My father, who refers to himself as a recovering Baptist, believes that if religion was going to save the world, it would have done so a long time ago. What gives us purpose and meaning is just carrying an open heart and walking each other home. Great work John and all your guests.

[@liseklerekoper2441]

Another excellent episode … so appreciate Heather’s willingness to be so honest, forthright, and vulnerable and sharing her story. I wish her all the peace, happiness, and success going forward. She’s a Bad Ass Mormon in my book!!!

[@glorianicole7242]

The way she expresses herself is so refreshing and well thought out. I’ve never been Mormon, but my high-demand Pentecostal upbringing is so parallel to what many former LDS describe. Great episode!

[@michadawn234]

I don’t have experience with Mormonism but loads of experience with Pentecostal and I firmly believe it is very cult like, if not full blown cult. I am pretty sure it ticks most if not all the boxes. The only thing I can think of is they are free to leave if they want. However if a longtime member leaves they will try to get them to stay or come back. My mother in law and many people of my husbands family are devoutly Pentecostal. Thank goodness he is not. He chose to play football at a young age. So in their minds he “chose football over God” because according to them you can’t do both. No one in “the church” has any other interest. Of course I am going straight to hell. I heard my little nieces say “Aunt Micha is going to hell” they were taught that. I wore pants and cut my hair and used makeup and wore jewelry. They hope my husband will come back to the church one day. I am sure you have had some experiences too. Oh my I could fill up this comment section, as I am sure you can too.

[@debinindiana]

I’m a never Mormon, as you guys say, but am enthralled with this podcast! 😊 Will be reading her book!

[@pscCRPS]

Grown man tells her he was "inspired by God" to ask about her touching herself. That is so grossly inappropriate!

[@ozymandias6743]

And Super duper common. I served in a bishopric and received no training and was subjected to no oversight when asking minors "Do you obey the law is Chastity?"

[@pscCRPS]

@@ozymandias6743 Untrained clergy is truly horrifying.

[@tenacioustadpole]

"gaming the system" rang so true for me. I got so good at lying and hiding and covering my tracks because of questions like this in church. Crazy

[@henriettaspivens7678]

I am non-Mormon, but grew up in a high demand religion (seventh day adventist). So many of these stories ring true to my heart. I went to their schools from 1st grade thru college. It was expected that once you went to college, if you were not already married, you would be once you graduated or left. I was a great disappointment to my parents as I did not follow this and actually married out of the faith. Best decision ever! 38 years and we are still going strong. The shame, the disappointment from my parents and even classmate friends has been at times overwhelming. I left the church a few years ago after having been a very active involved member. Not one person has reached out to me to find out why or if I am ok. (And the church I attended had less then 250 members). It’s funny what having access to the internet can do when you can do your own research and find out the truth!

[@Moksha-Raver]

Her making things up as a child was simply dodging the lechery of her bishop's sexual urges. If this wasn't an inherent failing of the Church patriarchy, the child would not have been put in that position.

[@delightfulpam]

Non-Mormon here, but love Mormon Stories Podcast. My dad was stationed in Utah while in the USAF. We loved it! My son was just stationed there as well. I just loved this episode with Heather. Loved so much, I just went and purchased her book, audio edition, and can't wait to get started reading! Thanks John and Margi for a wonderful interview!

[@lisapeterson7242]

Thank you Heather Gay for speaking for so many of us!! You are my voice in this whole debacle of being raised in the "Mormon" religion! Thank you for all you're doing and continue to do!!! You're my hero. 👏👏👏

[@Fleur-de-Liss954]

I can’t express the amount of love and admiration I have for Heather! Thank you so much for having her on the show!

[@Champsgal]

All of my world collide, I am so happy to see Heather here speaking her truth

[@natalies4375]

I can’t wait to get this book! THANK YOU Heather! I need this energy and love you’re sending through your writing. ❤

[@katygreen2160]

I LOVE HEATHER AND DRE!!! They’re episodes are some of my favorite and I relisten all of the time. Love them so much❤ so happy they are back.

[@dehende07]

Oh I'm so excited she's coming back

[@dianethulin1700]

YES! Check out NY Times article

[@nightmarefuelnursery9622]

Watching this from the perspective of a non Mormon, non religious Utahn, I realized in some of these stories that the way I was treated. Not being allowed to talk to certain friends and being uninvited to birthday parties, wasn't done out of hate. It was done purely out of ignorance, naivete and misinformation. My mental health was really affected by the predominant religions beliefs and the people that hold them. I am not a bad person! I am loving, I deserve love and friendship! Sure as an adult I still deal with discrimination but that truly only helps me weed out people that don't deserve my energy..... For now. I am not Mormon but I am a human being who hurts, loves, fears and I would stand up for anybody who was being treated the way I was/have been❤❤

[@inamalcolmson9449]

I'm a " Never Mormon " but absolutely love Mormon stories , so glad you did interview with Heather ❤️ wish her every happiness and success with the book . Love every video I've watched so far as I'm working my way through them and gaining a great insight into the Mormon religion culture and life both in and out of the church. Great work thank you for all the dedication and hard work you put into this 👏❤️👏

[@meemsemaria]

So glad to see Heather with John and Margie (sp?)! I’m so excited to watch all of this! Thank you all so much!

[@dmissme.9683]

Ohhh Heather I am lifting you up and supporting you. You have such a way to be so open and articulate with your feelings and understanding the oppressive religious cult…. I have followed your story and am here to cheer you on… You should share your book with Mike Render, Chris Shelton, nuancehoe, and Andrew gold - on the edge… Running to buy your book now

[@dmissme.9683]

@@dsoule4902 so true… I have gone down that rabbit hole

[@PoolCarol]

Heather's story totally resonated with me with many of the same things she as experienced. I left the church 38 years ago after doing much research into the history that was less than favorable. My mission experience was traumatic and the beginning of the end for me. Then when my Mormon missionary husband came out as gay, that was the end. Thanks for giving a voice to her experiences.

[@kirstieanderson9399]

I relate so much to her experience with her bishop when he said he was "inspired" to ask her if she touched herself. A similar thing happened to me when I was a teen. Our stake president came to give the youth a lesson on sexual purity. At the time I was "struggling" with masturbation and curiosity about sex and porn. I suffered from scrupulousity and so I felt tremendous guilt and shame. After the lesson he came up to me in the hallway and asked to speak to me privately. So we went into a nearby empty class room. Looking back this was so inappropriate. In the room he told me that he felt inspired, that the Spirit told him when he looked at me that I needed to talk to someone about this. I immediately started crying. I was mortified. I told him I had repented. Thankfully, he didn't ask me any specific questions about what my sins were. He probably assumed I was doing things with boys, which I wasn't. (I didn't even have my first date/ kiss/ bf/ fiance/ sex with husband until I was 26!) I'm not sure whether his intentions were pure or not. Did he want me to tell him details about my sexual sins and would he have enjoyed it? I don't know. What i do know is that teaching youth the principles of purity culture, and being alone in a room with a child, a teen or anyone you have authority over to ask them personal questions about their sexuality is wrong. It's spiritually abusive and a breeding ground for predators. Not to mention that purity culture destroyed my ex husband's self esteem and life and he eventually died by suicide. Purity culture is deadly and destroys lives.

[@Chalgal29]

This interview made me buy the book and I couldn't put it down. Wow, there has to be thousands of us who relate to her story, even if we don't have high-class friends or moneyed family. Loved the interview and loved the book. Can't wait to see what Heather does in the future.

[@Britbec]

I enjoyed this interview so much! Heather really is the best RHOSLC, and her genuine heart in this episode makes it clear why. Really looking forward to start listening to Bad Mormon tomorrow!

[@Ml_-ir7eg]

I’ve only seen heather through house wives, and I loved her on the show! But, I didn’t see too much of who she really is. This was such an insightful interview, and heather is incredibly well spoken. I am so proud of her for honoring herself. ❤️

[@sushi6608]

I appreciate getting a chance to see this side of Heather. I’m going to get her book.

[@jameswalberg3265]

She''s BAAACCK !!! Like a favorite larger than life character in a TV show returning after a hiatus. She is so engaging and self effacing smart and funny. John this should validate writing a book,

[@stephenkorosi9561]

This is soooo the conversation you should have on a first date. God bless.

[@ZakMakoff]

One of the best episodes of 2023, Heather Gay is an exuberant burst of sunshine! So pathetic that the church sued her for being authentic!

[@asmrambioticfluid9467]

"...let the most precious parts of you die." That's big

[@katem2411]

I've not watched any of the Real Housewives shows, but Heather seems like such an authentic and lovely person - I really resonated with how it's only the socially acceptable bits of ourselves that we allow others to see, and how that results in houses built on foundations of sand. I remember one university professor told me, "Everyone lies all the time, but the lies that are truly dangerous are the ones that we tell ourselves because we believe those unquestionably." Heather, if you read this, thank you for being on the show and writing the book - I've already ordered a copy and would love to see/read more from you. You may be a BAD Mormon(c ;) but you're also a good person.

[@heathergay8691]

Thank you ❤

[@brettneuberger6466]

I too was engaged at the Tree Room. 😀 Love this interview! Excited to read the book.

[@24Wynn]

Oh my gosh! I was engaged 4 different times at the Tree Room. That was my favorite restaurant. I'm glad that you were also engaged at the Tree Room!

[@beckyburnett8641]

Excellent interview. Helped me to understand my neighbours a bit better. Buying the book for sure.

[@ruby1037]

Heather I love your writing! How entertaining yet relatable in the pain... Can't wait to see your next work.

[@kweller3]

YAY I'm so glad to see these two back on the podcast!

[@okballetcat45]

I love her!!!! Heather is so wise!!! Her first episode on MS was how I found your podcast!!!! I watched and I fell in love twice over with Heather AND Mormon Stories!!!!!❤

[@mmishelle0101]

Just started the book Heather! Already WONDERFULLY WRITTEN and that’s just the Author’s Note and Prologue. So talented and amazing!!!! ❤

[@karrolsteeves3084]

I am a descendant of the Foutz family and left the church at 14. I identify with so many of the stories on your podcast. Great interview!

[@moesyah]

pre-ordered books for the people i love. thank you for writing and telling your story heather--you're amazing!

[@Emily-gc7hz]

SO proud of Heather Gay!

[@Mamafish68]

HEATHER IS A SCREAM!!! The woman has a seasoned comedians timing, she fluctuates from dry, to slapstic like a vaudeville pro!

[@Tiffanyrandall19]

Hey cousin!!! Also from the Chipman family. Only recently did I learn that Stephen’s first wife said NO to a second wife (a woman born two years after they had been married!) and when he showed up with after marrying her anyway, she immediately divorced him. Always got the vibes it was all good and no issues in the family with the polygamy. 🙄

[@alyssaandersen8349]

I am a non-mormon but grew up in an area where 80% of the population was so I enjoy watching and understanding more of what was going on behind the scenes. Definitely felt the pressure to conform to Mormon culture and had several people avoid being friends with me because I was not Mormon.

[@Bexab53]

And the shame too! We still felt shame as well! Shame that I wasn’t a Mormon. Shame that even if I did switch that I still wouldn’t be welcome. Shame of the clothes I wore because I was allowed to wear them and Mormons frowned at me. So hard. All of it, but hey, we made it 9

[@georgewoodland1766]

What a childhood experience to be quizzed by an older man one on one. Traumatized and abused by a “Bishop” who thinks he has power over you.

[@mckenziesimmons6233]

Bad Mormon is officially in my Audible que. Great episode team!!

[@RebeccaRaven]

Looking forward to reading this tomorrow! Thank you, Heather.

[@dmissme.9683]

Wow, I can’t wait for that miniseries Watching the Tanners historical videos about Joseph Smith are mind blowing.. And all the documentation and facts they have are powerful for those clinging to this cult

[@sarahsmile9]

I'm not a Mormon, but from a high-demand religion, and, I'm Heather. She's so brave and inspiring. I fought it like she did because I believed with my whole being. I just wanted to keep my blinders on and be comfortable. But by the grace of my kids, I am changing the story.

[@kacyegan2550]

Bought your book in Audio form!! Congratulations Heather 👏🏻 PS, I’m a NeverMo!

[@ginacarter-webster8155]

I was finally able to catch a LIVE and couldn't be happier that it was THIS one!! I bought the pre-order and can't wait for it to drop tomorrow! Now to go watch the show! I have avoided this franchise because I'm not a huge reality fan, but I need to see Heather in action now!!

[@alissat.4363]

Can’t wait to read the book! Love Heather. Will watch your church documentary/show too, I’m impressed you’re starting a production company for that! John, loved your question about what “real” means to heather now. 👏

[@yvonnestyle1554]

We are all Bad whatever religion, because we are human! Religion can make people feel bad about their existence, and that’s actually the bad part.

[@cindihunter9119]

Wow! This for myself was relatable to my own life! Including the "music" that was mentioned! This definitely could be made into a movie, and, "very poignant"... ♥️😎

[@sleuths2022]

Brilliant articulation .. with ease.

[@mmishelle0101]

Wow. Best interview. Thank you!!!!!!!!

[@jenniferhair3210]

Oh I’m so excited for this Podcast and book! 🥰

[@jjefferson9319]

Mormon Stories is a real ministry. Jesus told a parable of when one sheep leaves the flock the shepherd goes to find the 1. Dehlin’s are the shepherd giving belonging and understanding to those that strayed. Thank you. 🙏

[@raha78]

Robin Quivers is Howard Stern's sidekick, NOT Robin Givens.

[@kairosfury]

Man, I can relate to the shaming part. The harmed need the hospital, not to be beat on with 2 x 4s

[@janetmitchell4452]

Heather, I hope you can feel that "Heather" drambue moment again.

[@pbjquesadilla]

I loved Heather on RHOSLC and love her even more now! I relate to her so much! Can’t wait for her book signing this week! ❤

[@rochelletipco]

Omg the Qweeeen herself!! Heather im such a HUGE fan! ❤ the authenticity

[@kwaintraub2]

Great episode! I'd love to get the Spotify playlist with all the music Heather mentions.

[@Maryfs1]

I'd love to get a bad mormon tshirt! But I live with mormons! 😭

[@Will0wFire]

Just bought the book, going over to Audible right after the podcast. X

[@theresedes8546]

Heather is so great. I will absolutely be buying this book. ❤️

[@Jdizlmynizl]

I just love Heather!! She is amazing

[@allymounga4902]

Just ordered the book, can’t wait to hear more of Heather’s funny and impactful voice. She is such a gem 💎 always been my favorite housewife out of all the different franchises

[@brandeberryb84]

Everything about this. Thank you so much Heather.

[@ishtargirl1]

Thank you Heather for all the "good" you are doing as a bad mormon. I have just ordered your book. Ive never watched the Real Housewives of LDS but will check a couple of episodes. Much love from Australia

[@brooklynparkse]

This woman is incredibly smart. Her thought process is very refreshing.

[@mary-annz.reynolds7778]

I left the Mormon Church when my son said he felt he was a woman. Our lives would never be the same again. There was no way I wouldn't support my children.

[@dleeflang2292]

AMAZING!!! I now have another treasured favorite❣️

[@KelbyThwaits]

What a great and fascinating interview.

[@karlyi387]

MINI SERIES! Production company!! My heart is racing.

[@karlyi387]

DOCUMENTARY! it just keeps coming!

[@renaebodine1029]

Thank you so much we all need to not be so fearful to speak - Thank you for your book and voice 🙏🏻💞💖🦋grateful

[@DawnMcCarty]

Loved this interview and hearing Heather's story. I just ordered her book. I am so glad to know that I am not alone and that is because of listening to the guest on @MormonStories. I'm inspired to keep writing in my book that will hopefully be coming out later this year, called "Sealed to My Abductor" - My story of Abduction, Abuse, and being raised Mormon" I'd Love to share on Mormon Stories too.