Realistic vs Believable | Workbench Wednesday

What's the difference between realism and believability - and which is the goal we should strive for in our models? That's the topic for this week's Workbench Wednesday!
Thanks for watching!
Dave
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[@thomasfrench2012]

The problem I have with "expert" rivet counters is that they always want to enforce THEIR standards on everyone else. When they tell me I have compromised too much because I have 11 rivets and there should be 12, I respond with, "Oh, you model twelve inches equals one foot do you? No, then you have compromised too much." Look, if you want to go the extra rivet, go for it. More power to you. Just don't be telling others what to do or that what they are doing isn't good enough. This is a hobby where everyone can do as much or little as they want. And if that brings joy to them, then that is all that matters. If it bothers you and you have to say something, then break out your checkbook and prepare to write a bunch of zeros.

[@danielbanks7500]

I make those same sort of judgements on other's work. The difference is I know it is my PREFERENCE and I just don't say those things lol! You are referring to jerks. Never be a jerk :)

[@officialpennsyjoe]

Hence why I find Standard Gauge very fun. I like my HO stuff for realism, but Standard Gauge really ticks the box of having fun for fun sake with style.

[@txag007]

Time for Dave to create an Illusioneering shop to rival Disney’s Imangineering workshop!

[@turkeytrac1]

I second that!😊

[@RobertGoslin]

Great topic Dave. Real life is boring enough as it is. That's why I like model railroads, more than real railroads. And I have no time for rivet counters, because they just don't get it. Much prefer the stuff people like yourself, Gary Beatty, Furlow, Olsen etc do, rather than the real prototype modelers. I guess i like the artistic side of modelling much more. And to quote George Costanza (Seinfeld). It's not a lie if you believe it. 😆

[@ShawnRiverman-sw9qf]

Preach Brother, preach! Your view point and presentation is a testament to why/how this hobby is relevant today.

[@WasatchWind]

I love what you said about believability, because I take a similar approach when writing fiction, going for _plausible_ rather than "accurate." Sure in some fantasy universe it would make no sense for some society to have horses or something, but if you flesh out your fantasy elements, add depth rather than breadth, you get believability, and that suspension of disbelief. You can really only go so far in hobbies and art forms where you're imitating reality. There's always going to be people going "an interstellar spacecraft wouldn't look that way" - more you want to be working towards internal consistency in your own creation, and that's what people will appreciate more.

[@maccoat]

Im making a post apocalyptic layout. Going outside the norm is so much more interesting to me.

[@TheShackHome]

I think you hit on more than you realize. You truly are gifted with a talent 99% of us would give anything to have an ounce of. In some way I think that your level might scare off potential hobbyist and I know of a person that didn't progress in the hobby because of those who push it, has to meet these standards, has to be the era correct . Its a hobby to be enjoyed so you are exactly why those people need to see your channel. ENJOY it don't let (as you say) rivet counters scare you off. Many can sculp rocks but you stand out because of your ability for color. Your blending is flawless your lay out is extremely believable. You are truly gifted. My family came to California in the summer of 69, yeah I know. Prior my mother and a girlfriend of hers cam out on the Super Chief ,I think< back around 67. I have some of my best memories of that trip eating in the café car seeing the Teepee's in the hill side near Gallup, New Mexico so that is one lay out I'd like to do. Not the complete trip just the depot in Missouri and a couple of stop's n New Mexico maybe a stop in Colorado, crossing the Colorado river and the depot in LA. My grand parents lived in Long Beach. Another is the MKT just love old westerns and the history from Missouri to Texas and I want to keep it when cattle was still being transported. My last Idea is a billboard city. I've collected many rolling stock billboard themed. just a crazy fun city an advertisers dream if you will. The main thing is fun. and more need to support that theme then once in and get more experience then may be get more specific or era specific. Prayerfully I will be moving to Tennessee this year there I want to start to build my layout and hopefully find a good group that can help in learning more on scenery. My father was an exceptional; mechanic and did a little drag racing so I learned to work on my cars, old stuff I don't do computer cars just a pain. my stepfather family had a cabinet shop in Anaheim. Yes very close to Disney. I learned how to build cabinets. In that complex there were 2 brothers that had a lighting company , still in business today, so I learned how to assayable light fixtures. the brothers one sister worked at Disney at the time, so yes I got many books of tickets and spent many day in Disney mainly on Toms Island. Hours I'd spend there. My stepfathers uncle had a construction Co. Yep worked for him too. He had accounts with B of A and one of the first to build the Jiffy Lubes in the day. So I am well rounded but not an expert in anything. I can build you a crazy bench work but when it comes to building the model railroad I'm no smarter than a 3rd grader. I agree with others and will add. If you ever started a course on sculpting ,building and painting I for one would join. I will need all the help I can get. I am enjoying the new layout and already learned something as far as snow is loved the Christmas themed layout you did.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Thank you

[@user-sv4pj5jl8n]

Model Railroading changes as each generation discovers the hobby. In the 1950's - 60's it was all about freelance build it from scratch or kits. During the late 1960's -80's it was about prototype modeling. Now it's about DCC and helix layouts. I've got to say the part of the hobby which appeals to my story telling is a believable prototype with a freelance short line. Sort of a mid 1960's model railroad vision in living color.

[@michaelschlobohm8877]

Our Model Railroads are just ""plausible fantasy." This goes for everyone. Prototype Rivet Counters to fanciful creationists, all have a place in the hobby. My local club has one individual who does not care for the running of trains, or model making, or scene composition. They like the prototype-ish paperwork it takes to get the rest of us operating. It takes everyone to keep the hobby alive and growing. Great video as always Dave.

[@AzraelThanatos]

I'd think that the realism side also has some different focuses, different versions of the same hobby that attract different people. For example, there's the people who go for replicating something very specific, the guys who run the Cincy layout in the Cincinnati History Museum are aiming at something different from someone who wants to built their own village. Or in other things, the difference between people building a specific version of, say, KITT from Knight Rider, compared to those who want make the ultimate version which combines things that were never on the same vehicle because they couldn't for filming purposes.

[@johnnytoronto1066]

Nice discussion and examples.

[@bdlii]

I’m a simple guy. Whenever I see your layout all I think is That’s Cool! This guy is teaching me so much and I really appreciate his work. Can’t wait to see his next video.

[@timothyboles6457]

Wow!! Very well said!!! And you're 100% correct. Even the purist prototype modeler has to make compromises. Its usually impossible to built a 100% accurate model railroad. And using your Thunder Mesa layout as an example, it does look "realistic" even though its a figment of your imagination. It may or may not have elements from real places, but you created a scene that looks believable. And therefore, also accurate. With some whimsical stuff thrown in just for kicks and giggles. Rivet counters are annoying, and i enjoy things that set them off! They are only about 5% of the viewers that visit a given layout anyway

[@jamessbca]

As a kid, I was first attracted to the more fantasy-type modeling. Growing up in the 80's, George Sellios, Malcolm Furlow, John Oleson were my heroes. Then I grew to love "realistic modeling". Fast forward to nearly age 50... Now, I'm finding myself *increasingly* attracted to this type of modeling again!!! :) It may have to do with the fact that some "realistic" modeling has gotten so realistic that it makes me realize the end goal of "realistic" is not as interesting as the more artistic type of modeling....? I still appreciate all types, however. This may all coincide with the fact that I've realized within the past 10 years that it's totally OK to be a lifelong fan of Disneyland :) You know what you're doing / are nailing it. Love your work!

[@theangelsmodellingandrailways]

You make great points about how we build our layouts and our intended audience. Mine is what I think they call proto freelance. Its my own logging railroad company idea mixed with stock that relates to period and area, without fussing over historical accuracy, just having a blast in creating my own wee world. Another great topic Dave. All the best. Brian @ The Angels

[@martytaylor2004]

Bravo. Thanks for the prospective. We certainly are all storytellers telling our stories or capturing a moment in time. That is one of the finer and fun parts of our hobby.

[@drew8837]

Great topic tonight! It’s all about storytelling, and the experience. There are plenty of rivets to be counted elsewhere. 😂 I love the story and art that you create in your setup.

[@jamesgooley934]

Great way to look at it. Good analogy.

[@joshuatoro8977]

when I watch your layout and I see videos of your layout I can believe that I could be there standing there having a drink with maybe one of the cowboys or maybe go into that blacksmith getting dropped off at the old train car station that's what makes your layout so amazing is it's believable I see some of these that model the original area that they're trying for it doesn't look believable it looks too big thank you for posting and talking about this amazing subject and PS just to let you know I'm working on a beautiful gas station and I wanted to look believable to the naked eye

[@NotSomebody63]

So True! Love your message! In my short 60 years of existance there is something I have learned that took me a long time to understand. I (we) can not make everyone happy. Most people like me but not everyone. That is all right, you don't have to. If everyone loved the same things the world would be a real boring place. I have built modles that some told me "you are a perfesional, this is georgus!" Then someone else sees it and they could care less about it. That is all right, what is important is that "I'm" happy with it. Now if I am getting paid to build something and they do not like it, I get more info and build it to their expectations ~ sometimes I don't like it but I got paid for it. I don't have to look at it on my layout ...it is what made my customer happy! It comes down to "what makes me happy!" Enjoy what you do! Some people are not going to like it but that is ok to. Have a grerat day!!!!

[@turkeytrac1]

It's funny, but since the first time I came upon your channel a few years back, I always put you in the category of a great modeler. As such, you present how you see the world through your influences, and that tops everything else. Thanks for sharing , Dave!

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Thank you

[@allenlandis4504]

Another great show. thank you .

[@chiparooo]

Well thought out discussion. Interesting topic. Thanks for sharing!

[@mikediehl1468]

Dave, all you said .....are the kindest words Ive ever heard to describe this hobby.😄

[@johnbanicki7232]

Thanks for sharing.

[@ifanai]

Loved reading all the discussions on this topic, never been able to put into words quite as eloquently as you have just done Dave, I sort of wear 2 hats, when I model or sculpt I try to bring out the character of the human or building but with the 3D figures I try to paint them so when photographed or views a layout they look like they about to take a breath, neither of these I have got perfect but boy am I having lots of fun trying and I won’t mention the Dragon, Dwarves and Teddy Bears who inhabit my crazy world that is my layout

[@brianandlukas4246]

I'm a teacher of sculpture at the high school level. Advanced curriculum has them build 'believable' models to reresent creative intent for full scale public art pieces. I try to tell them that it is the same process if you are designing for a themed restauarant or theme park - that believable emersion is the key the expireince. It's nice to see it presented in a clear format as you have done. Have you ever done any formal teaching? You do a fine job of presenting material and I praise you. My personal railroad (g scale) is European... in a believable, fantasy sort of way... so I really 'get' what you are saying.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Thank you so much. I haven't done formal teaching but I have presented a few art workshops.

[@bennihulls6851]

I couldn’t agree more Dave. I think you are a wonderful story teller in your modelling and you seem happy. And for me that is the key. HAPPY. This is a hobby people, it’s all about what makes you happy. If rivet counting makes you happy… well go count away lol. My name is Benni I model on30 in Australia I happily put my hand up and say I’m NOT the best modeller but I have fun and I’m happy with what I build (most of the time haha) That is the most important thing. Thanks again for everything you do for this hobby Dave. Cheers

[@jerrysmith1929]

Amen! Amen! and AMEN!

[@AJScola-cq2ec]

Excellent and accurate video.

[@cerisekappes580]

Really well thought out and presented video 😊 I love your storytelling in your creations 😊

[@debbiegipson4512]

"Illusion and wisdom combined are the charm of life and art"---Joubert.... I would tuck "abilities" in there as well. You always entertain.😉

[@hackmultimedia]

Thanks for taking us on the adventure, Dave! 😎🔥👍

[@spencerkioki9684]

FANTASTIC CHANNEL! Love the insight. Well-spoken, informative, entertaining.

[@hearsemonkey]

Enjoyable is far more important to me than realism or believable. We had a contractor over the other day to look at some work we need done, and he saw my layout in the basement and his eyes lit up and a huge smile appeared on his face. We spent the next 20 minutes talking about the layout.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Very well said and I couldn’t agree more. Even though I try to be as realistic as possible on the Seaboard Central, having a believable miniature railroad is definitely more important. Tim

[@doncure2019]

A great topic Dave

[@jimjohnston7688]

Excellent topic. I love looking at prototype modeling, but looking at your work is just fascinating. I truly enjoy your modeling.

[@stewsstructures83]

On my channel when I/m building a structure many times I use the expression " The Flavor OF " . I like close . I am not a rivet counter so to speak. . I like realistic but not a perfect duplication to scale . Great subject.

[@grits3d]

Really interesting topic, clearly presented. Something I've thought about a lot [maybe too much]. Our old HO modular club had a space in a dying mall for a few years. It was interesting to see what aspects of the layout appealed to "general audiences." They weren't so interested in long coal drags or silver streamliners. But they did like the kitchy animation and bright colors. It would be interesting to see how they would react to larger scales like On30 or Gn15.

[@NYCJDClark]

Great show with a great topic. When anyone tells me that my models are not correct or don't make sense, I always say that in my world that is the way it is.

[@grumpybear7706]

Great topic, I can’t believe anyone could possibly criticize your work. You’re an amazing modeler .

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Thank you. It's the internet, everyone's a critic!

[@magnificus8581]

I love discussing model railroading like it is an art form. I consider the same things when working on mu layout, so appreciate the content!

[@garypearsall1589]

You just stepped into the middle of Koester / Furlow debate. 😊

[@a.mchamp9159]

My best friend introduced me to the world of modeling, he specifically loves railroads. We worked on a mini railroad model/diorama he could fit in a suitcase. He then traveled across the world for school and the railroad arrived intact. I get updates on all the little details he has added over time. I am now making my own model, first ever. It'll be small so I can focus on the details and it can fit on a bookshelf. A desert scene, of a cabin, outhouse and stable/shelter for a horse, I'll paint the background. Simple, a little world of comfort. I found your channel when researching desert models and have been so incredibly inspired. You are an amazing artist.

[@prpman99]

To paraphrase Steve Brown "It's My Rail Road". Emphasis on MY. I build to suit me...I'm the audience. Thanks for all that you are doing.

[@bobharris5872]

Dave, I really enjoyed this presentation. For me a highest compliment I can get is that my work looks realistic. It is just story telling and each to his own and each is of value. I find your thoughts help me refine mine. Thank you

[@AzraelThanatos]

One other thing about this sort of thing is the specifics of the setting. Thunder Mesa is something that's in the fantastic with a feel of stepping into a western. Something like a museum train display hits harder with the specifics of "real" to replicate something specific. If you want to see a great juxtaposition of the two feels, head to Cincinnati's Museum Center around christmas when the big train display is open, that compared to the one in their History Museum (same building) shows a lot of it very well. The museum is one where they went as close to accurate as they could and have upgraded things for more and more accuracy for a specific point in the city's history. The big display goes into a more nostalgia based scape intended to represent a more general feel...and they have a lot of others with different levels of planned realism and such to draw attention from different groups to different layouts.

[@mossysgarage3023]

It’s an interesting topic and somewhat challenging to straddle the line between realism and believability. I struggle with this in my modeling and really appreciate the focus you emphasized on who is my intended audience. Thanks Dave, great topic!

[@maxcorey8144]

I have been a professional model builder for most of my adult life. Many of the dioramas were for museums and such I wanted historical accuracy. But for my layout I am willing to bend real history a bit here and there but it remains realistic. Yet a model railroad can also be fantasy. Both can be believeable.

[@markdeschane4467]

Dave, Thanks for bringing this subject up! I believe that your Railroad is Believable, not unlike Disney land/World's RR and other things the Disney workers have created. Of the Model Railroading You Tub videos I watch, I feel yours is the best. You use Believable methods to make the things that you need. Believability methods can be used to make realistic structures and scenery, which is where my Wheel House.is located. Thanks for helping me achieve my goals

[@lesliezammit3456]

To put it another way, some sites, like Everard Junction are ultra realistic. Looking at individual sections of the layout evokes strong memories of looking out the window of a real train. Your layout is ultra realistic too, but more likely to evoke strong memories of what we have seen in a dream or on a screen. I can't say for sure though, for I have never ridden a train in the locale or era you have chosen to model. What is indisputable both approaches take a lot of real talent to make the illusion work. The rest of us can only wish.

[@painter662]

Your conversation today took me back to the first model railroad craftsman arrival I ever saw… it was a tiny mountain diorama that basically had an HOn3 loop railroad depicted on really excessive elevation changes. It was called Stopgap Falls. What I fell in love with was this little guy on a comical little elevator tha connected the train station to the rails about half a mile down it seemed. Realistic, not a chance. Believable… it has stuck with me for about 45 years😊 still makes me smile

[@waynelevin8408]

This was a great episode. One of my very favorites, although I love them all.

[@billiwan]

Very well said Dave!

[@vincenthuying98]

Dear Dave, love this video and subject, or should I say subjects? A high level of realism is of course a great goal to focus on for any model, or model railroad. The very aspect of believability, in my humble view, put aside for the amounts of actual nuts and bolts a model shows accurately. And then the eyes look on along the tracks and see selective compression being used as too much of a compromise. As such the suspended believability truly suffers from an attempt to too truly to size modeled yards and simply too short available running room, those large yards require for the length of trains they produce. I too do think it all starts with the story we want to tell and as you said; ‘who is going to view it.’ That said it’s all about choices. I just have a little shed, which means the railroad empire I’m modeling is always going to be restricted. Nevertheless, with a certain level of realism as a kind of tool, the main focus of my efforts is to create a believable version of the tracks I have a passion for!! Cheerio

[@johnschutt9187]

Wow. I didn't know how good this one would be, but you have very good words here. Great thinking and communication.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Thank you

[@gmmeier321]

It’s just wonderful!!!! Both realism and imaginism needs skill to make it look right. And you have skill+

[@MonsterKidCory]

Yeah, the rocks and trees and buildings and stuff might be fake, but the DIRT is real! This all reminds me of the concept of "hyperrealism." Hyperrealism is something more perfect than real... It's Disneyland and the glamour of old movies, wherever the most picturesque parts of reality have been emphasized to create a perfect ideal. In model railroads, most of the time, that perfect ideal is a railroad made entirely out of industry... One man's hell is another man's heaven 😆 But I appreciate your Disneyesque, caricatured approach. Loved seeing Thunder Mesa in person years ago, and I've been paying attention to your tips about beginning your model RR not with a train set, but with a story. Some day when I actually have space and money to have one of my own, I'll actually get to use those tips 😆

[@emilkuttel1]

huge inspiration Dave, I am working on a T gauge rollercoaster layout using your rock work. hello from nz.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Cool!

[@lindagroskopf3749]

Very well said!

[@TrainDetailsbyGuss]

Excellent and Though provoking concepts. I am finding myself more and more doing my scene building as a story place. What is the story I am 'seeing' right in front of me. Thank You.

[@joshuabrown6791]

Thanks for tackling this topic man! I'm still in that phase where I can only engage with this hobby through magazines, track planning, and videos like yours, so I have plenty of time to think and dream how I want to shape my layout. I can definitely empathize with the feeling of being confined by the expectations of someone else. I will say, I'm glad you reminded everyone to consider who they were presenting for. My dream layout is a Colorado Central inspired railroad, complete with it's own unique (fictitious) black and blue livery. Needless to say when I talked to a rivet counter about my plans they didn't share my enthusiasm. Oh well. I know I'll enjoy it someday and hopefully I'll be able to share it with you and a bunch of other lovely people. Anyways, thanks as always man and have a wonderful day!

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

[@FunAtDisney]

This was an excellent discussion and explanation of these styles and choices. Dale and Karyn often show all these styles when they travel around. At one side are these “prototype” super realistic models, on the other side are the Lionels where the modeler chose to use the Plasticville structures, keeping them unpainted in the colors of the plastic. Both styles pull me in for different reasons. The realistic one may pull me in to a time-frame that I actually saw and experienced, while the Lionel one pulls me back to my childhood and simpler playful time.

[@fjs_forfjun1107]

Thanks, Dave! Well said! It really is about the willful suspension of disbelief.

[@jahnocli]

This is a fascinating question - and not just for railway modellers. As an ex-art teacher, I was often asked about the difference between realism and naturalism. I realised that if you put the prefix "super" in front of these words, you would think about the difference between supernatural and super-real (surreal), which made the difference a little clearer. Similarly, by using "un", you culd differentiate between unbelievable and unrealistic, two very different things. Just re-read that paragraph and it comes across as pretentious! Sorry about that -- I love model trains too (although I don't have a layout at present), and this seemed interesting as an idea...

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Not pretentious at all. Good points!

[@apitheous194]

Well said, and always enjoyable.

[@danielbanks7500]

Great topic Dave! One presented in a very fresh and freeing way!! I aim for very high realism in some aspects because it properly sets the stage. Draws you in because it is VERY believable. That frees me up to spend some of that 'believability' capital when I want to do something fun but at best, barely plausible. Never let the details get in the way of good story telling! As an example, I built a tannery that has a living quarters above it. Old brick, great detail. Very realistic in textures and colors. Used lighting and interiors... good stuff. Beside it is an add on building with the brine tanks outside and the clean water vat inside. In reality no one would want to live near that thing. It would smell terrible. The scene as a story though is a very good one!

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Love the term "believability capital." I'm going to use that.

[@greatnorthernrailwaytother4711]

Great video Dave. Agree completely. Thanks Peter.

[@NScaleDystopia]

Excellent commentary. Aside from your well articulated explanations, I appreciate you featuring a few images from the late Malcolm furlow's layouts. For me, he was the quintessential storyteller - at the expense of 'realism'.

[@kylewalker2160]

Very interesting topic. Dave is on a whole other level. Thank you for challenging modeling thought processes and norms.

[@gbwdude]

That's what I strive for as well, Dave. My Whiskey River Ry is also an amusement park railroad turned back in time with the "what-if it were a real railroad first before getting to its current point". I take plenty of cues from the prototype and make it my own while also adhering to common prototype practices of my 1930's and 1940's timefrime in rural Wisconsin. While I don't name locomotives, I do replicate some buildings on the actual WRRy into my version to help set the authenticity level. There are also scenes I plan to replicate, such as "The Pines", where the train runs through a once forest specifically planted for harvest that's now grown significantly. Farm fields are a lot of my planned scenery as both what does surround the current railroad and what would have been (and still seen) on the real railroads. A lot of our philosophy is the same and I greatly appreciate your work on every Thunder Mesa video I watch. Keep up the great work.

[@moodster8552]

Greetings from Palm Springs California 🤓. Thank you for sharing your explanation of the terms. I am planning a mini layout and it has a unique story. I got so involved in creating the backstory that it evolved into a novel. I have been writing it since last September and I’m only about 25% complete. Unfortunately this s means that the layout will be on hold until I complete the manuscript 😑 I want my miniature world to be “ Believable”, because it will not be “ Realistic “. A word of caution to all your viewers, if planning a model railroad, you should probably keep your story simple😂 Best wishes always, Moody.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Yup, it's easy to get pulled down the rabbit hole of your own creation!

[@RGWrighthawks]

Awesome information Dave - I love the way you presented this topic. I have struggled with the realism aspect for years and have discovered that imagination and inspiration are by far the best way tools to use when building a small unique world.

[@ericsainte290]

If I may contradict you, your layout is not only appealing to general audiences. I am a European prototype modeler (UK in 1944 WWII in OO and in the 80's in N) yet I love your approach too, to the point that your layout inspires me to try a diorama por even a small layout in On30 in an imaginary world (probably a post-apocalyptic western style world somewhere in Colorado or in Maine...) but your theory is correct in what even if I model prototype, the location of the line will be free lance, yet made to be plausible (as if, or what if, as they say here).

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Happy to be contradicted in this way

[@smallurbanrails949]

Great stuff, Dave! A big THANK YOU for framing model railroading in terms of art! This is a message that needs to be told more often. My favorite modelers recognize and practice this principle. Model railroading needs to highlight more of the art and artist side of the hobby. I don't especially enjoy O scale, narrow gauge, or western settings, but I love your railroads. I'm your target audience! :)

[@TB-ModelRR]

As a newby to the hobby, this is how i understand the scope of MODELING railroads: Prototypical Freelance Believable Proto-lance Proto-believable Free-lievable Proto-free-lievable Beli-free-typical (Satire)

[@hmathewsk28]

Dave, a fantastic discussion! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I only recently discovered your channel while searching for scenery videos on canyons. I have thoroughly enjoyed your videos so far. Good luck with your new move

[@folkertvanwijk5168]

Great video! Thanks for the new insight and convermations.

[@goodtobehandy]

When you put in the right amount of detail it will draw you in and you'll want to believe it's no longer an illusion but real.

[@ChipEFT]

Two things made me sit up in your video. The first was the comment about having a dragon and dwarves on the layout. I actually have a cut out section of my underground staging where I will have just such a diorama. I already have the dragon and dwarves, I just need to get the layout ready for such a thing. The second thing is on another video, you show pools of water located in Sedona. I live in the area, in Rimrock. Is Sedona where you are located? I try to be realistic as I can, but I model the 1890's and locomotives and rolling stock are scarce so I tend to fudge reality so I have a working layout. Although it a switching layout, it has a lot of nerd Easter Eggs. Like a crashed X-wing fighter and the pilot and his R2 units are riding to town in a beer wagon. The freelanced town of Rock Ridge is the main location, so there is a Mongo riding an Ox and a toll booth.

[@stefanstolarchuk5766]

Hi there! I'm fairly new to your channel, I just stumbled on it the other day, so if I ask questions thay you've talked about before, my apologies. I've really been enjoying your content so far, and your work looks fantastic! I'd love to hear you do a follow-up on this topic talking about your approach to creating believability- what is it for you that makes a model believable, or maybe not believable? Especially in your case, where it looks like you're going for a sort of heightened reality, or a sort of whimsical take on something recognizable, like the Old West? For me at least, whether it's a model, or something like a film or a video game world, believability depends on internal consistency and logic- it doesn't matter whether the elements are realistic, as much as they make sense together, and follow a similar set of rules. I'd love to hear your thoughts, though! Cheers!

[@bsalightning69]

Myself I have been going for plausible, mainly because I'm getting old, and not rich, so I have to just put up with things. I love to tinker, so some things require multiple tries. I do try and make things as real as possible sometimes I have to just settle for being good enough. Putting things on that stir memories is a very important attribute, but I also love to incorporate things from movies, shows and games also fun. Gumby and pokie are already onthe layout, and I have a spot already picked out for the '58 Plymouth Fury Christine and the kid running in front of it. (Got the car at Menard's, cheap) im going to have it all lit up, of course. The list goes on....

[@derkaiser50]

Trying to model something that based on my research has never been modeled before, a Louisiana bayou based railroad. Think southern gothic but made into a layout. Anyhow, I’ve started taking a lot of inspiration from how you do things and I’m hoping you continue for a lot longer.

[@fantastichumore]

Now I know what a rivet counter is 😂

[@Allegheny500]

I don't remember where I saw it but someone had a "Monorail on the Moon" layout, it was very believable to the point it could have been used in a sci-fy movie, even though it wasn't made by a professional modeler.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

That sounds cool!

[@AndrewJohnson-ur3lw]

I heard a word once that I think is appropriate for railway modellers - "imagineer"

[@AllensTrains]

Quite an imaginative layout with lots of original ideas. I would bear in mind when modelling rocks, that they have to be the result of a geological process. Your layout will look better if you have less detail. The problem with layouts is that there is a space, and the temptation is to put something, such as a rock into that space! But consider having just an empty space for the train to run through! Thanks for uploading.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

You don't model rocks, you model geology. Thanks for watching

[@railfilm]

You know you cannot buy a fantasy, a taste ( feeling) for real illusion and not everybody is an artist like you.

[@thoughtengine]

Realistic, in my book, means buying up and levelling every property on your block and building a warehouse just to house your model of the local wye...

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Lol

[@royreynolds108]

Makes a lot of sense. cents. scents. yadda yadda

[@jasonbrown4239]

To me it's fun some of it s real looking some of it is fantasy when my nephew was young we made a zombie themed train

[@brucetreloar3200]

Why do we even have to analyze everything? Why can't we just accept that having fun in our own way is all that matters?

[@aussiefrenchman-hobbytable9960]

Hi Dave, interesting concept, my biggest dislike is spaghetti layouts , to the point where there is no room for scenery, me less is more !

[@Chattycrafter2580]

The way is see it, if it’s realistic then it’s believable.

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

But if the modeler chooses to model a fictitious time or place? Do you find those stories to be unbelievable?

[@petert9749]

Hmm; the wizard clay modellers at GM/EMD were every bit as much illusionists as we are. Now tell me that doesn't complicate matters. Enjoyed your presentation.

[@scottrobertson56]

My brother from a different mother. 😂

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Thanks Scott!

[@DaHobbyGoblin]

Kind of surprised you didn't bring up an obvious example, the original Thomas the tank engine show. A believable cohesive world to its target audience, impressive but non-realistic model work to everyone else...

[@ThunderMesaStudio]

Good example

[@therailfanman2078]

There is no objective way to model. Model how you want. You want an ultra detailed 100% realistic operations layout? Do it! You want a cartoonish and whacky layout with fun track? Do it! Model how you want to model, not hoe someone else wants you to model.

[@gearedsteam12]

Prototype modelers are so damn boorish. No one should ever have to justify the way they model to another modeler.