How Hollywood failed Female Heroes (AGAIN)

[@realjesterbell]

"The best part about the future is that it hasn't happened yet" - Cassie Web

[@Doc-Glock]

And after Madame Web escaped into theaters, there won't be a future happening for it.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

If i was making this movie, the plot would be like Terminator. Madam Web and the other 2 teleport to different universes to do a job specific to that universe. Sort of like eXiles. They can't leave until the job is done. This universe they have to protect Mary and Ben Parker, as well as ensure that Mary gives birth to Peter. All while being chased by the Bad Guy, who wants to kill Spiderman in every universe. They eventually kill him and its revealed that there is an entire society dedicated to killing Spiderman. Also, Marketing opportunity of Baby Peter Parker in a little outfit with Spiderman's colors that would have been a parting gift from Madam Web.

[@RossM3838]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpthe original script was built on terminator but then changed and changed until you get the incoherent mess we got.

[@A_YouTube_Commenter]

"I don't think we have a sequel coming, ..... like ...... ever." -Dakota Johnson

[@angelarch5352]

Truer words have evern been stated...

[@neilcook4710]

"Most people are normal. They just want an entertaining story!" This right here is the real answer.

[@wickedfan4ever]

But what actually makes a story entertaining because most movies I see I'm entertained in the moment? I'm just so confused about the complaints because everyone is just using buzzwords instead of describing what would actually make the movies better. What is good writing in the first place? What makes a character relatable? I do understand the need for using characters that are actually popular in the first place, but beyond that, I just feel dumb for not watching these movies and thinking they're bad. I've even heard from other women that Wonder Woman could have been written better and that Captain Marvel was the better film, which has further muddied the waters for me.

[@R_wir3]

​@@wickedfan4eversimply don't lecture us in your movies, no pandering, no DEI politics, no mary sues, simple as that.

[@wickedfan4ever]

@@R_wir3 you’re using buzzwords, which isn’t helpful. The only movie that seemed blatantly preachy to me was Barbie and that was a success by any other measure but my own. I also don’t think dei and good storytelling are mutually exclusive.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

They don't care about the story. The story only exists as a platform for their agenda... The Message.

[@wickedfan4ever]

@@Nyet-Zdyes well, I haven’t noticed that with any superhero films.

[@zaidbaker7031]

The problem with female heroes is not the actors, it's the writing, Disney and Sony just hire writers who aren't familiar with the source material

[@vernonhampton5863]

You can't complain about your car repair if you have it fixed at a high school instead of a professional garage. We get what they refuse to pay for.

[@Mojaveknight17]

They hire hacks not professionals and tell them: don't read the comics/source material

[@gloriathomas3245]

The problem is the writing? Do you even stop to realize how much a script/story actually changes during production. Hint, just about every film ever produced ends up going through rewrite after a table read.

[@gloriathomas3245]

@@Mojaveknight17 its clear to me that you don't understand the process of filmmaking, but scripts change all the time. A writer will never know that they have a good or bad script until a table read is done.

[@Mysticmegster1]

​@@gloriathomas3245 yes but Disney Marvel and DC still produced much better movies like Avengers Assemble, and Wonderwoman (2017). Either studio interference has gotten too much or the writers aren't doing their homework. And in the case of She Hulk, the writers admitted they hadn't researched the comics, the law or superheroes. Big surprise that the show was a flop

[@angelagokool9514]

I've seen complaints on KZbin about how female superheroes aren't allowed to be feminine anymore. Now, I haven't seen all the superhero movies, but I remember there being some issues on how Hollywood has been trying too hard to push feminist ideas, by suggesting that female superheroes shouldn't have love interests, or get emotional, and that there defining characteristics should be their physical strength or their intelligence. I think it's ridiculous! I think that they should be allowed to be feminine. I think that they should be allowed to have romance, and that they should be allowed to be vulnerable. Even Wonder Woman fell in love, and had been allowed to cry, after losing him. Why can't female characters just be human?

[@wickedfan4ever]

I sometimes think internalized misogyny disguises itself as feminism. It's not. What's the point of feminism if the character can't be, well, feminine?

[@RossM3838]

Along with the first wonderwoman movie is another example of getting it just right. That’s Jessica jones especially in the first season. Jessica has superhuman ability but not over the top. She is also filled with personality and flaws. She is lonely and paranoid (with good reason) Her job as a private detective suits her personality as she snoops around others private lives. Kristin Ritter captures Jessica perfectly as we saw in the original alias comic books. Her tragic past is seen in her eyes and while we might not like her we root for her and care about her.

[@A_YouTube_Commenter]

Good example. Disney would botch her so poorly.

[@RossM3838]

@@A_KZbin_Commenter the director of this idiotic movie directed two episodes of Jessica jones. What happened to her? Maybe at Jessica jones she was under the close watch of a person who was actually talented. She also directed a pilot for a proposed prequel to game of thrones that was so bad that hbo scrapped it and started over with someone else.

[@vernonhampton5863]

A Black Widow film works best as an espionage film with the action cranked to the 90s. It has to be more Mission Impossible and less Jason Bourne with the leaning into out of this world stunts and action and less "grounded realism". This should have been a slam dunk, but they missed a layup on a fast break.

[@raulrojas2576]

It should have followed the Winter Soldier recipe. They should have just made Yelena Task Master.

[@RustCole01]

Hey, whats with all the sports analogies u dang sexist? Wahmins don't miss layups... ever heard of the WNBA? I rest my case.

[@raulrojas2576]

I'm just saying it would have been a better narrative than what we got. Task master was wasted character it would have felt like bigger stakes if she was the character. I'm just brain storming here.

[@raulrojas2576]

@TheDCbiz Exactly what you just said it was treated as a buddy comedy action which I think it failed. I'm not a writer BTW but here is another scenario what if Task master was Yelena's new sister instead of Nat. Now, there is a push and pull between the two characters.

[@shallendor]

The best part of the Black Widow movie, was the introduction of Yelena Belova! I want to see the Dark Avengers on the big screen!

[@PhilRiveraMedia]

We guys love female heroes! There are so many great examples. Hollywood has failed the female hero by putting messaging and ego above good story telling. There are a lot more male heroes and a lot more male hero content (and with that, more male failures). However, female heroes can be popular and loved and successful too. It doesn't have to be a 1 to 1 and it doesn't have to be some kind of contest. Just let all the heroes be heroic and let the stories fail or succeed on their own merit. If they fail, look at why that is and try to do better. Your audience will tell you. Listen to them instead of trying to fight them.

[@mediawarrior5957]

Madame Web had no messaging, that would have meant that film tried to have substance. Madame Web was a film meant to retain movie rights and there was not passion or serious effort put into the film across the board.

[@damedan9389]

​@@mediawarrior5957Madame Webb most certainly did have messaging all throughout it.

[@mediawarrior5957]

@@damedan9389 messaging for Pepsi

[@TaoScribble]

​@@damedan9389 Care to share some examples? I'm curious because the reviewers I watch that would mention it said it was the opposite: No messaging; just bad everything else.

[@damedan9389]

@@TaoScribble "There's none more blind than those who refuse to see." No, I don't care to give any examples TO YOU. 1. Reviewers have spoken on leftist messaging. You either need your hand constantly held, which says ALOT regarding your lack of awareness, ignored them or didn't watch enough reviews 2. You didn't watch the interviews given by actors and production staff. 3. You didn't watch the movie or you're the audience for this drivel.

[@esalkor03]

Its really weird how often Carol didn't sell, yet they keep trying to push her. Though we can't deny that she has some pretty dope designs over the years. That aside, they have been pushing really hard for female characters; so hard that they've made them unlikeable in their stories without somehow realizing it. Everyone would have been fine with female superhero/hero leads IF they CARED for the SCRIPT! People have been saying this for a while now, but Hollywood has done such a huge disservice to many beloved characters & stories, especially female characters & its painful. There have been good stories regardless with female leads like Arcane, Bridgerton (season 1 at least), & so on. But for some of the most recognizable characters in comics & recent cinema getting ruined in these EXPENSIVE projects is tragic! Widow was fine even after the fumble of Ultron, but the movie really did not take advantage of the characters spy-espionage aesthetic & was a poor attempt of a semi-serious campy spy movie. Everyone was fine with WW regardless of complaints about the actress, but 84' was ridiculously bad. As much as the weird issues before the first WW film with its some of its marketing & I guess people advocating(?) around it, the movie was good. For 84 to be the follow up... geez... Harley has become a tragic victim of the 'Harley Quinn like' bit in her recent material. Which just makes it hilarious how they've made people go from adoring a beloved character to vitriol or apathy. She's sadly been relegated to being 'that character you can easily cosplay'... She-Hulk is a pretty well known fan favorite. Hell, especially by men if we want to go there. Yet when you make a show that makes odd commentaries that don't take in the full circumstances of the subject or characters involved, it comes off as biased & conceited. Worse when you do it against an audience that genuinely already likes the character & concept. There could HAVE been a discussion with it if they tried, but instead it just comes off as bitter & badgering. Still, don't think it's as bad as the Amber rant in the Invincible animation, even though they do it often though the show. Hell, Witcher with the commentary with how they viewed the material, what they wanted to do with the direction, and the BIZZARRE intention to want Yennefer to 'Challenge Beauty Standards' & go against her concept of being considered one of the most beautiful woman in the world in the casting. To which they get Anya Chalotra... who is pretty damn attractive... Ghostbusters (2016) comedy was stale, plot was boring; Charlies Angels was a mess, but Banks did go on to direct Cocaine Bear; Wandavision had something, but flopped the landing; Rebel Moon is generic as hell, not that interesting, & lackluster; the list goes on. Worst part is they've been trying too hard with works people 'WANT to LIKE' and in case of sequels or adaptions, 'ALREADY DID!' Then they either get to caught with the theme, messaging, their interpretation, 'SUBVERSION,' etc. It's all so... asinine...

[@marie-op]

Anytime someone says that female heroes don't sell, I cringe as I think of characters like The Powerpuff Girls and Sailor Moon. Heck, Japanese media has its own genre of female heroes called Magical Girls and they have huge successes like Card Captor Sakura, Pretty Cure, Madoka Magica, and the aforementioned Sailor Moon. And these Shows/Manga have gone on to inspire western creators to make shows like Winx Club and Miraculous Ladybug (which Miraculous is infamous for not having good writing in the later seasons but people STILL watch it, meaning that even bad female heroes can STILL be watched.) And of course I always wondered why people act like this since guess who Wonder Woman was made for.🤔

[@sagetorres714]

Funny enough, when the Powerpuff Girls film failed at the box office some people also came up with the "boys didn't show up to see a girly movie for fear of being teased", a statement that's kinda understandable, but if you look more into the movie's production and marketing, there were quite a lot of issues going on, so much that Craig McCracken decided to solely work on tv instead of cinema. It's sad, because one would inherently think that a Powerpuff Girls theatrical flick would be a massive success (or at least I do, lol).

[@mrsam0496]

​@@sagetorres714 boys were mostly intrigued by the villains in PPGs. Much less by the dynamics of the girls, which girls loved most. Mojojojo was a real threat, like a Joker and boys wanted to see how the girls would overcome him. To girls Mojojojo was just a part of the girls dynamics/relationship lol. It was a perfect balance. But in the movie, they leaned more into one side which took off the other. PPGs is hard to turn into a movie loved by all lol

[@sagetorres714]

@@mrsam0496 Yeah I see your point too.

[@jxhxhkzhjz8032]

Honestly I love Sailor Moon is because how much of the characters are very well written and enjoyable and anime in general has really good female characters but they are less that's my biggest problem with anime that they have more poorly written female characters and have less well written female characters.

[@kant.68]

Well…I don’t know if Magical Girls or Winx are what people have in mind when thinking about super heroes. Men and boys buy comics about superheroes. Not women or girls

[@remixsolo]

Star Girl was a fun character from DC comics. She also had personality and her own approach to heroism. She also made mistakes and grew into her role well. The DC show did a pretty good job showcasing that, low budget aside. It's just too bad it's not well remembered.

[@opposite_hedgehog_753]

Stargirl is what I think Kamala could’ve been

[@0potion]

I actually liked star girl and almost nobody that I know watched it...

[@wickedfan4ever]

I absolutely adored Stargirl.

[@anarchclown]

The first season was ok. Stargirl herself was the highlight but the rest of the heroes were not quite as good. The second season had the Shade and didn't screw him up. But Eclipso getting a whole season made the show boring. I never watched after that.

[@richborn6700]

Star Girl being a B/C list hero makes her far more malleable to tell stories with that people won't get up in arms over like they will for the bigger heroes. I think it's why Gunn always uses more obscure characters in his works

[@44excalibur]

To be fair, Halle Berry's Catwoman was also pretty bad. Her character was Patience Phillips, not Selina Kyle, so there was really no reason for Halle Berry's Catwoman to even exist since she was not connected to Batman mythology and had nothing to do with the comics.

[@jxhxhkzhjz8032]

That movie was bad it mischaracterize Catwoman in pop culture in general the thing that Catwoman is just a sexy cat thief which is actually nit true because Catwoman is more than just that she is actually a very well written character you can actually see her character being done right in Batman returns, the Dark knight and the Batman 2022

[@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho]

Hey, give them credit for making a new character for Halle Bailey to play rather than race swapping Selina.

[@Seafire-gy2hs]

The costume didn't help, either. She looks more like a pissed-off Mouseketeer.

[@caliginousmoira8565]

@@EternityKingdomsHeadHonchoright.... can't win

[@HasanShah-wv2yw]

Like how bane was race swapped in the dark knight rises ​@@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho

[@matityaloran9157]

12:27, especially since Banner already had a love interest, Betty Ross

[@Chuck_EL]

I'm still shocked Bruce Banner isn't mentioned in being in Captain America Brave New World since Betty, the leader and general Ross will be in it

[@TheHorrorMiserMontyG]

You're right Jester Bell, these movies failed because they're badly made films, not because they're female-lead superhero films.

[@Brotherofthe4thCompany]

Hellboy (2019) was a male lead film, and people agree that that movie was butt cheeks.

[@sianais]

Unfortunately,the studios trying to preach to us about our innate sexism for not praising crap, take these failures as our fault. Not them hiring sht writers and directors to crap out turds. Nobody blamed misandry for the Wolverine movie failing. Or Green Lantern. Or Jonah Hex. Or the Punisher (movie). Or the Hulk. Or... there are a lot. They kept trying until to made them stick by recognizing they effed up. But with female led anything, it's because viewers are sexist, misogynistic, and aren't ready for female led films. Kill Bill, doesn't exist. Underworld, doesn't exist. Wonder Woman, wonder who? Resident Evil? Hunger Games? All flukes. Nobody wants female films every time they make a god awful one.

[@Scruffynerfherder10]

Jester Bell said it perfectly at the beginning, executives don’t watch this stuff, they quantify the films they make on trends and finances, hard facts and the “what” of the successful films, not the “why” of the successful films.

[@danielebowman]

That's partly true. But the reason why they are bad movies, is because they are trying to force female-lead superhero films to be a thing, rather than adapting the best and most popular characters with the right talent to make them work. Plenty of male superhero films ahve sucked, mostly off popular or cult characters who were given the wrong talent to make the film. But they weren't specifically made to be male superhero films, which is why many of the female ones get their gender criticism.

[@Brotherofthe4thCompany]

@@Scruffynerfherder10 That would explain Batman v Superman.

[@LeonardoKlotz]

Is not about what they are Is about what they can do That's what Hollywood doesn't get

[@jonnjones8263]

More like it's about WHO they are. i.e. making them an incredible person thats worth watching on screen.

[@DarthBobCat]

I think it's like the attempts that McDonald's has made to sell pizza at their restaurants. It doesn't work out in the states, though it lasted longer in Canada. It's not that people don't like pizza... they just don't like the way McDonald's does it. But, since there are a million other places to get pizza, people don't assume that pizza sucks. For people who don't watch anime, play games, or read comics (executives and people who really only watch TV and movies), though, there isn't really an alternative source of superpowered female protagonists to compare to, so people get the idea that it's the female heroes who are the problem.

[@alienlife7754]

Anime sucks. Giant eyes, spikey hair, and ridiculous over sized weapons.

[@storyseeker6028]

Over sized weapons are a problem? What are you smoking?

[@DisabledDoll]

McDonald’s pizza? For real?😅

[@svenkampen1647]

I think the more pressing problem is that executives base their decisions on metrics and they want some ideally easy to accomplish thing that turns movies into sure hits and then becasue they are paying people to find such points they find them whether they are right or not. Some of that is "this actor is in it", "this director was on it", "female led", "majorily black" and its just based on these things suceeding or making a lot of money once or twice. Now the real reasons for the success is complicated, but they are paid for these simple solutions that can just be lazily put into the movie. Then this stuff is the thing that's supposed to turn mediocre or bad scripts into good movies and then the same market research guys that said put it in say not to put it in because it does not sell after a few mediocre movies with their inclusion not turning garbage into bangers.

[@toryficarola]

Just last night I was thinking about how awesome the first Wonder Woman and its writing was and how it all went downhill since.

[@thehickcritic]

The one thing Hollywood doesn't seem to understand about female superheroes is that do they think this is a men problem. In the case of "Birds of Prey," and "The Marvels," they made films that were catered specifically to a female audience (or rather, what they think female audiences actually want). The problem? Women didn't go see it (at least not abnormally higher than any other superhero film). "The Marvels" opened with a 61% Male Audience, "Birds of Prey," 54% Male. Compare that to "Barbie," which was 71% Female. The only superhero film that had more women than men opening weekend was the original "Wonder Woman," and that percentage was 52% women, not the 71% that we saw with "Barbie." Turns out women will show up to support female-led superhero films if the female-led superhero films are actually good.

[@Grubnar]

This! So much this!

[@silverheart4049]

If they are good and feature attractive male romance interests.

[@Dragblacker]

Women like the IDEA that some girls, somewhere, can have these media to like and be inspired by. Even if these women don't watch the media THEMSELVES. It's the THEORY they support and are devoted to.

[@AC-dk4fp]

Birds of Prey was a success with its target audience and has fans and supporters, its just a B-movie and those never perform well in cinemas. The critical judgement on B-movies takes decades to arise, maybe it will be forgotten maybe it'll be a classic who knows. There is no general female audience, ignoring the opinions of individual women who like a film by appealing to a vague broader female majority is okay for marketing products but its not an actual understanding of taste. A better comparison for Birds of Prey is the Keanu Reeves Constantine which also pissed off fans of the original characters but is still remembered better than its contemporaries like Ghost Rider. Franchises like the MCU drop off in popularity and sometimes films flop because the last one sucked. If Madam Web and Morbius' releases were swapped in time their box offices would probably swap a little (but not entirely Morbius is just more meme-able). Of course people will go to see good films that have good word of mouth but Hollywood literally doesn't care and its got nothing to do with their stupidity. Film studies has been warning about 'High Concept' cinema and its non-quality based marketing strategies for over thirty years now its a well understood phenomena. The quality of writing argument is fine and logical but it can also be used to cover up comic book fan myopia. Underworld is more succesful as a woman led franchise than any comic original heroine's film version and has its fanbase in spite of none of them being prepared to defend its writing.

[@MALICEM12]

Honestly this sounds more like the opposite. If the highest female percentage you can get out of a superhero movie is only barely over 50% then I think it's time to just admit the old harsh truth. Men and women like different things. Girls like Barbies, not comic books. Even when they like them, they clearly don't REALLY like them. It's kinda a waste to pursue on a larger scale. Just keep making ones targeting guys, they are the ones watching all your stuff anyways.

[@Doc-Glock]

Like with a lot of media discussion, the most frustrating part of the "conversation" around female superhero films is that very few people want to address fundamental problems that might turn people off from ANY film, like bad writing.

[@Nomoredrama2000]

Exactly. No one is talking about the actual problems, they instead sneer at the ones who criticise as either incels or racists, which is such a lazy and cowardly way of looking at it. I don't doubt that there are some racist/ backlash in there, but the fundamental thing is there is no care for the source material nor inventive writing. I think Dakota Johnson's comments on the bleakness of Hollywood during the M.W press tour speaks volumes.

[@wasgreg]

Write a good story, people will watch a good story. Don't start with, "It's about a female hero..." It is the same for the comics themselves. Badly written comic books don't sell. It doesn't matter the gender. There have been periods of time where I collected Wonder Woman and periods where I don't bother. Writing is the first and most important step. I want an emotional investment. I want to see a struggle. I want the hero's journey. The movie V for Vendetta is Evey's journey. It was a damn good film.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

They just want to blame men. It's really that simple... man bad, woman good.

[@salvadorHombre]

​@@Nomoredrama2000Reva from Obi Wan Kenobi is a great example of this. When that show came out people hated her character and found her acting rather flat. But unfortunately some racists attacked Moses Ingram (the actor) on Twitter. And then this was used as a shield to dismiss any and all criticism of Reva or Ingram. You couldn't criticise the poor writing or acting because doing so would immediately lead to people labeling you a racist or misogynist. It's sad.

[@Lunapink93]

⁠@@salvadorHombreI think that A huge misconception, that we use that racism as A shield. That’s the narrative they want people to believe. It’s A cycle that we honestly can’t seem to win.

[@db153yt]

Female centric films tend to be about the fact that they're female instead of being about a story that stars a female.

[@rrteppo]

What was really funny was Captain marvel came out at the same time as Alita Battle Angel where they also have a female main character, but she's basically robot Jason Borne. And the Audience loved the film, even with the Giant Anime eyes, and the open ending.

[@Swandog1343]

The problem isn't that people don't like female heroes, it's mostly that they don't like bad writing and poor adaptations. My main criticism of Birds of Prey was that Cassandra Cain who is my favorite Batgirl in the comics was recognizable in name only as a character. Same thing with Madam Web who looks nothing like she does in the comics.

[@gokux75]

There is no excuse for the Cassandra Cain that was in Birds of Prey.

[@clintcoleman6300]

right. a older A-list actress (Glenn Close, Meryl Streep, Pam Grier, ). She mentors 3 hot chicks. The 3 women were really desexualized. Lame outfits. I dont see young women walking around in stuff like that. The attracive ones show what they got. Sex sells and stop trying to act like it doesnt. Body positivity belongs in self-help books and documentaries, and not in mainstream entertainment

[@JTheBeastMcneil]

Glad you made this. It’s videos like this that actually led me to subscribing to your channel. Keep up the good work.

[@storyseeker6028]

You hit the nail on the head. It is absolutely ridiculous to me that some people reduce the conversation to “female super heroine bad” or “people who no like my super heroine bad”. My current favorite character is Kiana from a game called Honkai Impact 3rd. She starts off so immature, lazy, and overconfident while still retaining a wholesome positive and friendly vibe. Then her life is turned upside down, Betrayal upon betrayal, the death of someone she cared about, learning the horrifying events that led to her very existence, all this led up to the most amazing character growth and I challenge anyone to not tear up during that campaign. There’s also a webtoon called Senorita Cometa(sorry for misspelling the first part of the name, I can never remember it) Alex, the main character, is such an amazing main protagonist and I truly cannot recommend her story enough. (Albeit content warning for that one it gets into some pretty heavy stuff) these are both female lead, and both characters are among my top ten favorite characters period. I’m a dude. I don’t care 1 iota that they’re gals, like that somehow stops them from being allowed to kick ass and take names. I can relate to Alex forgetting people’s names, hell I had the same reaction as her when one of the guys I thought was two separate characters turned out to be one and the same. When Kiana was talking big but not focusing on her education enough to make her dreams reality, guess what? I related to that. And on top of that relatability both stories are well written, they make you care about the cast, care about the victory of the protagonist over a cruel world. They are in my opinion stories that Hollywood should take note from.

[@clintcoleman6300]

that's a masterclass in character development

[@Redculturee]

Xena and Buffy (TV) in the 90s are still very good heroines.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

*JB: **_"Why doesn't Carol Danvers smile?"_* Because _Brie Larson_ doesn't smile.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Botox overload is a bitch, man…

[@PhantomHT1320]

im one of the few that really liked the black widow movie with the sister, the mom and the dad. the dad was hilarious.

[@magnaremora]

We don't hate female superheroes, we hate shitty written ones, is that so hard to understand?

[@justanotherdude3113]

I'm a masculine man and some of my favorite characters are women, especially in star wars. I'm so sick of bad writing ruining characters or opportunities for these characters

[@matityaloran9157]

11:06, though I liked Carol Danvers in the animated series The Avengers:Earth’s Mightiest Heroes so honestly Captain Marvel could have worked if the writing were better

[@realjesterbell]

I enjoyed her there as well I forgot to mention it

[@matityaloran9157]

@@realjesterbell That was a great show

[@MissMTriana21]

I was so upset that they didn't use Monica as Captain Marvel. She's a much better character in my opinion

[@shallendor]

Monica Rambeau is the best Captain Marvel!

[@clintcoleman6300]

Except of her lame line "They will never know what you sacrificed for them" to SCARLET WITCH. Ughhh. She imprisoned a whole town against their will. That was a sacrifice, it was a violation, selfish, and criminal act. What was that writer thinking. The actress should have said "i aint saying that", as it is antithetical to what has transpired.

[@MissMTriana21]

@@clintcoleman6300 when I said Monica was a better character....I meant in the comics.... She was TERRIBLE in the TV show! Ugh, could not stand what the writers did to her!!

[@steventcunliffe]

Very cogent and well spoken video, thank you😊

[@ForeShadow20]

Madam web was a mysterious powerful character in Spider-Man universe and should have left it to that.

[@RoyCyberPunk]

"An attack on people's brain cells" 😂 That describes 99.99 of what Hollyweird currently produces sadly

[@KingKhupacabra]

There’s so many good female comic book characters: Zatana, Black Canary, Storm etc they just need like every movie in history needs is good writing and directing

[@Chuck_EL]

I geeked out when James Gunn said Zatana will show up in the Dcu

[@Chainsawhappy]

I concur. As a male who grew up watching the Lynda Carter WONDER WOMAN TV series and the Jessica Drew SPIDER-WOMAN cartoon, I would love to see a slate of well made female fronted Superhero films. A Marvel Studios Gwen Stacy GHOST-SPIDER movie starring Emma Stone would be a nice start. Rebooting WONDER WOMAN with someone who looks and sounds like the character would also be nice.

[@mikerude5073]

Captain Marvel coming off as a "little bit narcissistic" is an understatement. She came off as extremely unlikable, and there were a LOT of theatre employees talking about empty theatres, but that half the tickets had been purchased. The rumor was that Disney was in the process of buying Fox, and it would be harder to get their loan if they just had a massive movie flop, and were buying their own tickets to boost the figures. I believe this because if she was so well-liked, then the sequel would not have bombed so colossally.

[@clintcoleman6300]

The first one was sandwiched between Avenger IW and EG. A test pattern would have been a hit. Fools Gold on that one.

[@Chuck_EL]

Whenever she showed up on screen in "End game" there was a few groans and you can hear a pin drop That's never a good sign for your protagonist, Scarlett, Tchalla, Sam and Okoye got the biggest cheers when they showed up So people using the "They hate seeing black people/women as leads" are not only lying they're being intellectually dishonest

[@eduardoalvarez7546]

I would’ve loved a Scarlet Witch team up with Doctor Strange in the MCU. But the fact they did that, I saw it hoping it would be good, then wham bam! They shit on Stephen Strange and his character while also damaging Wanda’s character while simultaneously trying to prop her up as some misunderstood, complex character. No! You managed to ruin both of them in the span of 2 hours.😂

[@TiberiusX]

Did you see wandavision?

[@eduardoalvarez7546]

@@TiberiusX it had potential but then fell off in its finale. Even with some of the character assassination to Wanda and Vision, I hoped there would be some fixing of that in MoM- unfortunately that wasn’t the case.

[@Senkoau]

Instead of going from Wandavision and having her step up to the line again over guilt instead she decides to slaughter countless people in order to steal the made up children but not her husband or brother. I'd argue seeing wandavision makes her arc worse.

[@eduardoalvarez7546]

@@Senkoau it all comes full circle 😭

[@MauZangetsu]

The best thing about Wandavision was the two Visions' conversation. And they didn't do shit with that yet. MoM was a good time for them to add Vision in so we can see how that affects Wanda, but no, let her just kill everyone and then make her a "complex" character

[@Enzo_Matrix92]

Give me the 2000s Charlies angel vibe with capes and spandex.

[@matityaloran9157]

6:07, not to be confused with Billy Bateson

[@Oz_GQ]

This is so true and I'm glad someone is finally discussing it. It's so insulting for the film makers to take this opportunity to represent female characters then do such a bad job at it that it not only defeats the purpose but actually makes people feel negatively towards female leads/stories.

[@js2727]

A black widow film with Hawkeye that they talked about in the film would have been great.

[@matityaloran9157]

18:53, I remember her from a Spider-Man television cartoon but I don’t remember which one

[@darlalathan6143]

"Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"

[@matityaloran9157]

@@darlalathan6143 Thanks

[@Tusitala1967]

I love all of the X-men. Even B and C tier characters like Polaris and Forge have some meat on the bone when it comes to story. I love Kitty Pryde. I would enjoy a series that made her something of a PoV character, coming to Westchester to join the school and seeing all of these established X-men for the first time. The stories with Storm leading the team were fantastic. Rogue is so amazing on so many levels that I don't even know where to start with her. Mystique was one of the best parts of the early 2000's X-men movies, and could be just as great again in a new property. I could go on and on: Karma, Dani Moonstar, Wolfsbane, Jean, Psylocke, Illyana, Jubilee, Alison Blaire, and even supporting characters like Moira MacTaggert, Stevie Hunter, and Amanda Sefton. So many great women on and around the team. A 50/50 male/female X-men movie would be fine by me. Here's the team: Storm, Colossus, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Gambit, Kitty Pryde, Illyana, and Lockheed. You could have Cyclops and Jean supporting from base and raising a baby, or have them drop in and out. If the team needs a psychic, bring in Rachel Summers. If it needs brains, bring in Beast. It would be hard to go wrong plug and playing any combo of these great characters.

[@S.L.T.P.E.]

It’s the lack of respect that’s a major problem

[@misberave]

Anne Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises was perfect. I even have her statue

[@millernumber1]

Nicely said! You cover a lot of the pieces my cohost and I covered recently!

[@clintcoleman6300]

Jess drinknig that youth elixir. Nice to still look like a teen, when you pushing 30.

[@haileyharmon5298]

These movies just makes me appreciate the 2017 Wonder Woman movie more.

[@GD-os8mz]

Very well said. Hopefully they will stop being defensive and address the obvious lack of quality. Either way, the ones that do will be around in 5 years and the ones that don’t will make great topics in film school.

[@ricomambozero3811]

Marvel should take notes from Anime there is a famous Anime called Frieren that is so OP in her verse but also very appealing to all audiences . there is also Sulleta Mercury from Gundam Witch from Mercury .

[@johnwells5414]

“People just don’t like female hero’s” the level of ego from that statement is ridiculous.

[@sailorpluto9914]

I remember watching Madam Web . In an episode from Spider-Man and his amazing friends. Back in the 1990s, she was a minor character.🕸🕷

[@FredGoldust]

There are so many good female heroes to use that everyone already likes too.

[@A_YouTube_Commenter]

Would you consider doing a podcast or something? I like how you cover topics as a fan without an agenda. If I had one I would love a good solid hour on this. I think you have a very good head in your shoulders and hope your project can get made.

[@teslafistforge8716]

Actually, my first introduction to captain marvel was in an animated avengers show called earths mightiest heroes. She was pretty solid there so it's funny hearing that the character has had a difficult history.

[@egoborder3203]

I think it needs to be said that in recent years "female superheros" has become synonymous with "fighting the patriarchy." And while I support feminism, I don't think action adventure movies have benefitted from clumsy attempts at social engineering. As you said, though, the bigger problem with all of these movies was simply the quality. I felt really bad for Scarlett Johansson because the Black Widow movie felt like it was thrown together over a weekend

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Rogue was one of my favorite characters from the X-Men comics too, btw. I thought Anna Paquin did a really nice job with her in the first X-Men movie. 🙂

[@spiff1]

no she didnt, that was two totally different characters, worst casting choice ever

[@richborn6700]

​@@spiff1worst casting choice ever? Jared Leto Joker and Jesse Eisenberg Lex Luthor would like a word with you...

[@spiff1]

theyre all shit@@richborn6700

[@vetarlittorf1807]

​@@spiff1Chris Claremont says otherwise. Also, Rogue wasn't always the outgoing badass she was in the cartoon. She did use to be mousy and insecure.

[@spiff1]

she was lame in the movies, she should have grown into the hot vixen with the big hair and hot bod, but she remained a loser instead@@vetarlittorf1807

[@carterlindstrom4831]

6:03 I like the Miss Marvel name and original costume way better. That’d be cool in the movies.

[@evdomos]

You said you were going to throw your hat in the ring and left it on the entire video.

[@KingdomKing13]

Sometimes when I'm sick of all the schlock I'll still watch Wonder Woman tear up No Man's Land in the first movie. What a legendary scene.

[@deathbysloth]

You know what was awesome lately? The Atom Eve special of Invincible. Female superheroes are done poorly by the sort of people who end up on Hollywood's radar, but there's a wealth of greatness that remains unmined.

[@ChaosMcCain]

Madam web is the showgirls of female super hero movies

[@1001johny]

Would you like to consider to doing a WonderWoman TV and Film retrospective? That is comparing the most iconic versions of Wonder Woman together. I think a lot of people don't give Linda Carter's series it's due, along with the original comics. They just look to Perez's wonderful run and what ever is more recent. But looking back on Carter and Gadot's two Wonder Woman might be something special

[@octogigas]

Noooo no no no. Nobody is rehabilitating Catwoman and Elektra. Nuh uh. Everybody watch Alita: Battle Angel if you wanna see girls get the awesome sci-fi action story they deserve. Disney won't make a sequel to that but they'll blow $200 million on a Rey Palpatine abomination that literally no one wants, because we live in the Upside-Down apparently.

[@TX.hook-em]

Speaking to the choir. Shame that James Cameron is more engrossed by the Avatar series, though Robert Rodrigues did a great job. On a different note, the Iron City Experience they put together for the movie was a blast, great time!

[@grahamstrouse1165]

A big part of the problem is that most of the people making genre TV & movies now (super-hero, sci-fi/fantasy) aren’t fans of the genders they’re trying to work in. Imagine trying to start a rock band with musicians who are not only strictly classical musical fans, but hate every genre besides classical music. You’re not going to get a very good band…

[@TheDissident77]

"People don't want female heroes." - Ellen Ripley and Sarah Conner take a sip of beer...and laugh their asses off. Pfieffer's Selina nods with approval.

[@kelleyceccato7025]

Pfeiffer's Selina is a villain. Female villains have always been popular (although, in recent days, moviemakers have been squeamish about showing them). Jessica Jones and Buffy Summers would be better counter-examples.

[@borikidor]

I think the Problem is: Some people want to make female lead movies but then they forgot that they are bad at making movies.

[@eranderson13]

Really enjoying your perspective. Keep up the good work

[@Heyya01]

Try watching Frieren the anime. Thats how you write a strong, loveable character. People cant get enough how adorable this this socially awkward elf is. ❤

[@gloriathomas3245]

Just as a reminder for historical purposes Barbarella was the first real female superhero film on screen (based on the French graphic novel). As for Hollywood's treatment of female superheroes of on-screen, I agree with everything you just said however Tank Girl and Barbed Wire takes the cake when it comes to infamous examples of where things could go wrong with female superheroes onscreen.

[@AC-dk4fp]

You're really confusing comic book characters with Super Heroes. None of those are Super Hero comics unless you include a very broad definition where James Bond, Sherlock Holmes and John Wick are Super Heroes by which standard Barbarella is far from the first film superheroine.

[@ironclad4451]

another excellent video. You look at things without the sensationalism on either side of the issue and its a breath of fresh air.

[@Seafire-gy2hs]

Great take on the current state of female superhero films! I don't think it matters whether the hero is male or female, it's how they're portrayed. Unfortunately, these films appear to be made "by committee" and/or people who don't "get" the superhero genre. I think some of the memes poking fun at the recent failures of female superhero films isn't intended to be sexist, but more a frustration with feminism being shoved in the audience's face. It would be unreasonable for Hollywood to do that and not expect a reaction. Hollywood churning out garbage means an opportunity for smaller (profit-driven) studios to make money, provided they can lure an increasingly-hesitant audience back to the theater for a superhero film.

[@SarahBullard-c4l]

I do wish they'd made the Dazzled movie with Grace Jones back in the 80s.

[@pizza4me298]

The first two Alien movies were perfect examples of how to write a hero. A hero is a hero regardless of sex, race, class, etc. Just write a hero.

[@vonsowards1297]

Honestly, the female character would only benefit from having more sex appeal. Look at that picture of Scarlet Witch shown in the video. She’s sex. Look at how it was women calling for the Victoria Secret’s angels to come back. Men want to see sexy women and women want to see sexy women. It’s not like they have any problems putting scenes with men as the sex appeal, such as the obligatory Marvel shirtless scenes for all the male characters.

[@jairusjackson7799]

You forget, it's also feminist women who complain about female over sexualization, and other women who get radio silent when it gets brought up or agree simply to look morally superior. Men who ask for it are just called sexist for only seeing a women's value as being eye candy, and then you get women in potato sacks on the big screen. Personally I don't care either way, over sexualization does annoy me but I'm just reporting the facts as I see em

[@thoseclipsyouvebeenlooking1289]

Hmm…. I get what you’re trying to say, but I don’t know that you are quite there yet. If there was anything that the Catwoman movie brought to the table it was it’s sex appeal. Maybe what you are getting at is just more “high valued women” and romance. I mean, on paper Brie Larson is hot, but is she attractive? Most men wouldn’t be interested in her. It’s the same with a lot of these modern female characters. A “sex appeal” doesn’t have to mean more sex and nudity, but maybe just more romance and women worth desiring.

[@stackels97]

Nope. They'd benefit from better writing. Do they need to look attractive...yes absolutely, but leaning on sex appeal is as boring as leaning on the 'girl boss' idea, they're played out and detract from the more interesting aspects of characters. Sex appeal will hold peoples interest in a character for 10 minutes, a well written character will carry the whole film and appeal to way more people.

[@KingKhupacabra]

What. So they r only interesting coz of sex appeal. U r a very sad person if u think that😂😂😂 OMG so fuck character development and personality and let’s have a big ass and big tits. Okay buddy. Stop watching the corn and go outside

[@attilamarics3374]

@@stackels97 I mean its an editing style basically, they could have edited Captain Marvel scenes like she was a sexy women, they did not. Thats the problem. She acted like a man, and the scenes were edited like that, even her costume was bad.

[@mxvega1097]

The confounding thing about the "failure" of Catwoman and Elektra was that at the same time tv had cracked how to do it right - and continued to do so: Xena, Buffy, Nikita, Dark Angel, Witchblade, and then Lost Girl. All pretty good. The female characters in Agents of SHIELD were good too. Just not ... OP, snippy, condescending, misandrist, and a colossal preachy bore.

[@BRONZALiVE]

One a side note Jennifer Garners elektra in the red costume is still changed my youth👍

[@WarriorBoy]

Great analysis and some spot-on commentary on your channel. I find that with so many of the female superheroes on screen (not in comics), we don't know what makes them a hero truly, and we don't see them suffer major setbacks due to their own actions that they then have to make up for by making a heroic choice. Spidey has to choose responsibility after being selfish, Cap had to show others he was the best candidate for getting the serum, the recent Batman movie shows that Batman inspired his villains and he had to correct for that, it goes on and on. They're not just popular because they're men, and female superhero movies as we've seen them so far don't just fail because they're women and because of sexism. Nobody, man or woman, saw The Marvels or Madame Web. Madame Web and the other spider-women (who are barely in costume) aren't compelling characters in the comics, so of course they wouldn't be on-screen. Nobody asked for these! What do we actually know about Carol Danvers? In her first movie, we only see her suffer some bullying and setbacks as quick flashbacks. We get told by Yon-Rogg that she's too emotional, but we never see her expressing big sweeping displays of emotion. Show, don't tell. Her emotions never led to a consequence that causes her to feel guilty, her emotions never made things hard for someone else, she's actually pretty cold, calculating, and professional for most of the movie, so what's he even talking about when he says that? The major thing she has to account for was her bias against the Skrulls, which was conditioned into her by the Kree, so she's absolved for guilt there too, for her biggest flaw. We need to see this stuff play out. Imagine if we got to know Carol before she had powers, before she was a pilot, got a chance to get on her side, respect her, and sympathize with her first, before she got powers. Everything in the movie happens *to* her, she rarely makes a choice to drive the story forward herself on her own steam, she just falls into a convenient scenario to do something at the right moment. If they want female superheroes to succeed, they need to fix this kind of stuff first. Follow stuff like The Bride in Kill Bill, or more recently, Charlize in Atomic Blonde, or Blue-Eye Samurai on Netflix for better examples of female heroes. None of those characters got what they had easily and aren't so perfect and protected as the Disney take on Marvel's female characters, who never have to take much responsibility for anything. It's some weird problem that Disney has with writing women at the moment, and hopefully someday it changes.

[@OoLOSTWORLDoO]

Haley's Catwoman makes me purr..

[@brucebezold2714]

One of the funny thing with the Supergirl movie. It was a box office bomb but sold very well in VHS that came out at that time. At a comic con I attended in the movie room. They showed Supergirl all day. The movie was so bad it was funny. Side note when MAD magizine tried to satrize supergirl. Mad said supergirl was so bad it was the only film we failed to satrize since it was so bad to begin with😅

[@josephvalenzuela311]

Great video. BTW As someone that reads comics, I like Monica Rambeau. I love reading the comics and I enjoyed Ms. Marvel by Brian Reed. I thought he did a good job with her. THX for the video.

[@wolfofthewest8019]

I'm only 5 minutes in and so maybe you mention this later, but one of the things that really hurt Catwoman, even before the first reviews came out, was that people really wanted a Catwoman movie that was spun off from Batman Returns with Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman. People figured out pretty quickly that this was a totally different Catwoman and started hating on it just for not being what they we're expecting when it was first announced.

[@Lion_Patriot]

Another thing that should be mention about the controversy about bad superhero movies with a female lead (at least in recent years) is the attack on the audience by both the media and the people who work on it. It only seems to fuel the hatred for female superhero movies that’s not receiving good word of mouth by the casual movie goers and the fans, painting them as bad people only pushes more of their customers away.

[@attilamarics3374]

It just show how unprofessional is hollywood nowdays. They make bad movies and everybody blames the audience that wont show up. Like they are entiteld to their money.

[@mollytherealdeal]

There are entertaining female superhero characters on TV like the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman, Elektra Woman and Dyna Girl, the Spider Woman cartoon, and the Bionic Woman. The first season of Heroes had well written female super characters. In the British cult TV show, The Champions, Alexandra Bastedo played Sharron MacReady. The first two thirds of the Wonder Woman film was entertaining.

[@reddevilsunited_2060]

Some of my favourite action movies had a badass female lead. Way more memorable than Disney's idea of a "strong female lead."

[@TraderJoe888]

Great video. Thanks for sharing your sincere thoughts. What I have seen is different waves crashing onto rocks. The first wave was the "women are brilliant, men are stupid" wave, which includes The Last Jedi. This is where studio execs like Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy sought to empower females (directors, writers, actresses) with decision making power to try to make up for a hundred years of female sexual assaults and mistreatment in Hollywood. This wave crashed onto the rocks as it drove away the core male audience with overtly negative treatment of males and just stupid writing. The second wave was "let's not attack the men, but create a female centric universe", which would include The Marvels and Madam Web. Again this wave has crashed onto the rocks, with female directors/writers/actors being square pegged into round holes. That is, bringing in talent that never had a passion for the genre, and more specifically had a distaste for the genre and the genre's core audience. The outcome was predictable, terrible movies crafted for an audience that never existed. But there is hope. Godzilla Minus One and now Dune Part 2 show what a talented director can accomplish when they are passionate about the movie.

[@Okapi540]

Mrs. Incredible from the first Incredibles film is a great example of a big screen female superhero, IMO! Yes I agree the problem is bad writing, not the sex of the characters.

[@angelarch5352]

Very true. Also, Black adam and Antman movies flopped, and those were MALE superheroes-- did people say that the audience doesn;t want to see male superheroes anymore?... no, it's because these were bad films with bad writing-- exactly like the bad female led movies. It is not because they had female leads or male leads, it is because these movies they are total garbage on their own.

[@siggemodigh6276]

I couldn't agree more. Imagine if they instead gave x-23 a movie as continuation of Logan. That's something that I would found interesting.

[@mijomijo96]

I think from 2010-2018 they really knocked it out of the park with female superheroes. Black Widow, Gamora, Wanda, Nebula, Okoye, Wonder Woman, even Harley Quinn & Mera were enjoyable

[@katarinatill4713]

My Female Heores from my childhood: SARAH CONNOR, Terminator and🥁🥁🥁:"LT. RIPLEY, Alien pt.1! 😊

[@yourturn5059]

Its funny that disney is blaming their failure on so many things other than the poor production quality and, more importantly, the poor quality writing! It's either superhero fatigue or toxic male fans who hate seeing a female superhero (which is just not true because even with madam web there were more men than women who saw that horrible movie!) Or they blame it on lack of supervision(in case of marvels). As a guy, I love superheroes regardless of their gender, as long as the story and characters are well written. But Disney(and Hollywood in general) seems to have become incapable of writing good stories and characters. Personally, I think its because they're replacing all their talented writers(who have earned their places by years of learning and perfecting their crafts) with diversity hires and activists. Anyway, love your video, so I subbed!😊👍

[@Zombiesnyder13]

I blame AVI ARAD for the failure of ELEKTRA

[@Claego]

Exactly! Well said Jester

[@shallahali]

I loved Jessica Jones on Netflix and Spider Gwen and Jessica Drew in spider verse, pure awesomeness.

[@LostCauseClown]

I've never blamed the characters. Literally any type of character can be interesting it just depends on how they're written.

[@MademoiselleRed1390]

Some men saw Madam web as an "attack" on them because it was an all female team. Which granted, didn't exist as such and hence was forced (as you said, they were trying to make their birds of prey). But I do think it's ridiculous we would have to justify female teamups when we don't justify male only teamups. Especially because hanging out with people of your same gender is extremely common if not the norm anyway. Did it help an already bad movie that they forced a team of only women that didn't exist like say Charlie's angels or birds of prey, etc? No but Madame Web was doomed already by forcing the character to lead a movie in the first place which is a common problem for the whole Sony spiderman universe.

[@JuzTroublez]

I don’t understand why they can’t get the original writers of the comics who know the characters inside out to write up a draft or become a show runner

[@TiberiusX]

They can. They DON'T want them to write thier movies. They're specifically hiring people who aren't fans.

[@shadowofeyes69]

this video just showed up in my feed and i am so glad it did. im subbing. Also as a guy who loves super hero movies, I can say one thing for sure. Guys don't hate strong female characters, we hate "strong female characters". For example, love ripley from alien, absolutely can't stand captain marvel... Well at least rogue steals her powers and puts her in a coma anyway

[@RealityCheck6969]

Guys are pissed not because Disney writes bad female characters. They are pissed because Disney emasculated and ridiculed almost every single male hero. And they did this with not just the Marvel brand, but Star Wars and other brands too.

[@TX.hook-em]

Disney owns Alita Battle Angel, due to the Fox buyout. They will never develop the balls needed to make a sequel for that movie!

[@MrErik052005]

I would die of happiness if the MCU started with Rogue’s arch. Like, we get to see Rogue take Carol Danvers powers and put her into a coma.

[@Marveryn]

just to add something you miss. It just not female superhero movies fan are currently rejecting. You have to add Flash and Aquaman 2 to the discussion. Guardian of the galaxy started out soft but once people started to say how good the film was it pick up and avoided the nose dive of these past years failures. Also am positive Kraven the hunter will be a flop like Morbies