This Is the BIGGEST PROBLEM With Entertainment Today

[@realjesterbell]

Come at me, comments. (But be sure to like, comment, and share if you agree!)

[@Prototype-357]

I wish all Angry Rants on youtube were as reasonable as yours Jester

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

Loved this video!👏

[@egoborder3203]

why do you keep saying "adaption?" The word is "adaptation"

[@christopherthibeault7502]

Come at what? I've been saying this for years: depiction =/= promotion. I don't quite disagree with the premise so much as see it happen everywhere. Even the Iron Age types can be guilty of this when trying to bring back straightforward pulp. So, everyone is scared to make people look awful for fear of offending people who happen to look like them. I'm not one to think anybody can ever be so broken that you stop believing it to be possible and begin questioning the angle of the writer. I got a lot for my fanfics, which seem to make people do unexpectedly horrible things that seem out of character. I got one where Aerith Gainsborough, having since been elevated to the status a full-time genjuu and borderline minor deity and celebrity among the phantom beasts courtesy of SAVING HER PLANET THROUGH PRAYER (and still getting stabbed and immediately drowned on doing so), decides that it's perfectly keen to invade the psyche of a partisan and adversary to her new clique's attempted assimilation into the Kingdom of Ivalice by forming a "Junction" (like Final Fantasy VIII) and robbing said dude of the memories from which his cruel obsession with her and maddening repertoire of strategic magical skills happen to reside. Making him docile, however, has unpleasantly attractive side effects which eventually make her second-guess herself. In short, the flower girl is mind-wiping someone, like how Sephiroth (or the Jenova pathogen--take your pick) was eroding Cloud's psyche, but feels justified because hers is a punching-upward game, not punching-down like the Illithids were doing. Her immediate target turns out to be punching towards the sides. Of course, she's being entirely frisky and petulant for trying something as severe as mind-wiping her opponent. It's called "rules of warfare and diplomacy" and while you have arguments for and against, you also have to wonder what drove her into pulling such a harsh move and how her opponent's surprising reaction factors into the tale at large. However, none of this can be achieved if you're contractually required to depict Aerith as saintly throughout. That actually undermines her character, not only in deemphasizing her very human proclivity to make mistakes but it flat-out just pulls the reader into questioning the motives and quirks of the author. My angle is that grayscale is still a necessary color to behold alongside black, white, and rainbows. Plus, I never depict someone as abjectly evil--evil is a deed, not a state of being. You got villains, but villains aren't meant to be evil--they're meant to oppose one aspect of the hero on principle and intrude upon one's life over the dispute. The lack of that one thing that makes the hero shine (not just be sympathetic) is what leads the villain into a fall, by the hero or otherwise. But falling does not always mean death, either. The goal is to stress how anybody can be transformed one way or another. Something made Aerith lose some of her morality and the seeming bad guy more than likely has good reason to oppose the genjuu, if not all of them then certainly one who causes far more havoc than either he or his fey-like nemesis. So, that's one take. It's difficult to get started without making the characters fallible and impossible if you're worried that fans will take offense at their fav character resorting to cruel stunts. I probably hinted that Aerith might feel put-upon for saving the planet when she was simply invoking and summoning it, and she had no power otherwise. Plus, she achieves a position among high-powered beings but perhaps feels not just lonely at the top, but suffering a case of impostor syndrome, where she feel she doesn't deserve her lofty position. Feelings of inferiority like those are common among people like Hollywood movie stars. Those sources of anguish compelled several terrible things to come out of her deeds. If Aerith discovers a similar take out of the put-upon genjuu fighter, maybe she can transform out of feeling so powerless or stupidly lucky. I couldn't get this far without being unconcerned with what other people think. If there's one thing to criticize, you're not ranting out of a wrong premise, but it didn't have to be sixteen minutes long. Four would have been plenty.

[@harleybtasfan90s]

​@@christopherthibeault7502and your comment didn't need to be a novella either so that's pretty hypocritical😂

[@Keyatzin]

Everything has to be sanitized and uncontroversial, there's no room for growth or redemption, or nuance anymore. Heros can't have flaws, and villians can't be offensive.

[@MrKrewie]

It's been going on for so long I don't even really care anymore, you just laugh at how bad it is and that in itself becomes a new form of entertainment 😂

[@hemidas]

It's like Saturday Morning Cartoons again. No wonder anime and manga is getting a boost again.

[@thegoldenplague-mask5438]

Have you watched Invincible yet? Theres one character who has that assholishness.

[@KGKSkull]

That goes for entertainment in the west. But in Japan, the shows are absolutely nuts. In one show, there is, and I wish I was joking, a gay French man speaking Japanese who owns a bakery, and he transformed using durian themed spartan armor and he just dominates.

[@andhikabirdboi7014]

@@KGKSkull You referring to Gaim?

[@rhog45]

One thing I really hated is when Disney tried to make Cruella Devil a hero, " let's make the woman who gleefully makes coats out of puppies a tragic hero," like seriously (edit: holy crap people like my opinion)

[@MRPandoraHartDR]

And Maleficient is only evil because it was all a rich powerful man's fault.

[@alexman378]

I remember the joke being “watch Dalmatians kill her mother in the origin story”. I was floored when that’s actually what they went with.

[@Mayeur000Donz]

I recall Cellspex saying however, that she's one of the more entertaining leads in these live-action remakes. The villain-turned-antihero shtick means she was still allowed to have flaws, which made her more entertaining.

[@flowerbloom5782]

I like the fashion but looking back the fact that her actions have no consequences. Like cruella dismisses her goons. Very villinaous. But no consequences and the movie depicts her as a hero even though she doesn’t deserve her friends back. Also the way they over embellish her character with trauma. I only like the fashion. That’s was cool.

[@okasart]

Villain backstory done right was Cornelius snow. Still so hatable

[@kimcampagna9383]

Say it again, depicting is not promoting.

[@EinsamPibroch278]

It is when you make them the heroes all the time.

[@Eniggma39]

⁠​⁠@@EinsamPibroch278 not if it’s part of the character arc

[@nonamecommenter3005]

Put another way; DEscriptions are not PREscriptions.

[@The8bitbeard]

Funny thing is with video games, society seems to have gotten past the idea that depicting violence means promoting violence. But for some reason, some people seem to still struggle with separating fantasy and reality when it comes to other disagreeable things. I have hope that society can get past this too.

[@secicu]

​​@@EinsamPibroch278You realize that Main Character ≠ Hero? Right? POV does not mean root for. Boy so i wish the saying *Hero of the story* was never coined... It has completely ruined general audiences ability to accept flawed Protagonists. We should ban hero Protagonists, unironically. And only have Villain Protagonists until people get that MC or even sympathizing with a Pov character doesnt mean cheering or anything of the sort

[@shadowanderson2004]

Even in Harley’s “healthy” relationship with Ivy is still extremely unhealthy. They went “no she can’t be in an Unhealthy with a man…but a woman? sure!”

[@alexspeedwagon3701]

It's okay because it's gay

[@limoneadeGlass]

Don't look up Lesbian couples statistics...

[@alexthedemon2203]

@@alexspeedwagon3701 *YOU EXPECT ME BELIEVE THAT MAGGOT?!*

[@Kaltsit-]

That’s such a lame homosexual relationship for clout. I’m pan but gosh, I hate it when they just do it for clout. I like it way better when there’s both. Acting like real relationships. Both have friction, both take work. Both can be toxic. Both can be healthy.

[@alexthedemon2203]

@@Kaltsit- Homosexual is when a man likes a man and i didnt know you were a pan

[@sparten316]

It's weird cause I barely remember sokka being sexist. I think it starts kind of subtle. More like a brother often does to a younger sister and grows from there until it's torn down. But it's removal really did take away from a lot of growth from the people around him. Which was fascinating to see it so broken.

[@thecolonel1457]

He is barely sexist. By that I mean he isn't sexist for long at all. The final time we see a representation of his sexism is episode 4 of season 1 of the series. Honestly, him being sexist specifically isn't necessary given how small it is, he just needs to be generically arrogant.

[@MackNogaki]

no the show displays it heavily in the first episode, in the scene where they find Aang. and then by the time Kiyoshi enters it becomes a main theme of his story

[@NaoyaYami]

He did saw women as less competent - but only in what he saw as a traditionally masculine tasks where he grew up: leading people, warfare, hunting, etc - you know, stuff that was typically male-dominated in real world as well due to how much more important women are to spawning more humans. He had no issues with women in general (especially with Toph, that proved herself as tough right from the start in his eyes). And of course, it wasn't that far into the story when he grew up out of that mindset (it was precisely meeting Kiyoshi warriors that did it - he even accepted cross-dressing as a sort of punishment once he asked Suki to teach him).

[@HaganeNoGijutsushi]

Mostly it feels childish, it feels less incel and more 12 years old kid that thinks girls have cooties.

[@najhoant]

It started pretty heavy in the first episode, but then Kyoshi Island was episode four. After that it was gone; my theory is that it was going to be a bigger part of the character, but the writers realized that it would be grating and fixed it early on

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

"How about she just makes the wrong decisions and remains a cautionary tale, because that worked. Because not every character is about growth. Not every character makes the right decisions. Not every character has a happy ending" Jesterbell hit the nail on the head!💯👏👏👏

[@Darth_Bateman]

The Japanese seem to have this figured out, that or their conservative environment keeps upstarts from getting more power than they should.

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

​@@Darth_Bateman lol yeah

[@mythanita4292]

While there can be cautionary tales for harley specifically comic books need change because characters don't end

[@23Lgirl]

​You have never seen Kamen rider.​@@Darth_Bateman

[@notyouraverageharleyquinnstan]

@@mythanita4292 yeah but I'm talking about her specifically

[@00110000]

I mean this is modern Hollywood. They think 'representation' means just having that race/gender on screen and doing absolutely nothing meaningful with it. That's considered appropriately supportive. So of course that translates to bad things too. Because if you can see it, it's supported and therefore represented, and we can't have that. To them, we the audience are infants, incapable of applying anything we're seeing at any moment to a broader picture. I mean even the villains are played safe. That's why Big Jack Horner in Puss and Boots was so damn refreshing.

[@ceinwenchandler4716]

And Jack Horner... Remember Jack Horner?

[@BrightElk]

And that in and of itself is prejudiced.

[@NorthernRealmJackal]

Good point about representation being equated to endorsement. It's like the erosion of the American education system finally kicked in, and now Hollywood and its consumers are defacto media illiterates. I suspect it'll continue to devolve until Disney gender-swaps too close to the sun, and collapses under their own relentless bad-faith self-scrutinization.

[@axelwust9376]

​@@ceinwenchandler4716 Jack is like the biggest breath of fresh air nowadays

[@Gustoberg]

And that 1 second kiss in star wars is the "representation" hollywood gives us (and its creatives as well), 1 second of a little kiss not relevant to the plot so countries can easily censor the scene, and of course, 100% more screen time to glup shitto! Because THAT doesn't give some tonal whiplash lol

[@afellownerd]

I swear, so many shows and movies these days are terrified of giving their characters flaws

[@bluestrike01]

The only flaw thats still around and is allowed is sour, biggot, nagging, narciccism

[@sgtjerry2001]

​@@bluestrike01they don't see that as a flaw like we do but empowering

[@OGSilentMan]

Is there a limit to this What about the Coffin of Andy and Leyley, i see most people getting disgusted at them (normal response) but to cancel the game?

[@sosmooth13]

@@OGSilentManI think there is a limit. Making a racist character that learns from the flaws of their ideology the easy or hard way is pretty easy example. That person usually meets justice from the rest of society or from the very people they hate. Even if their story continues and their character never changes. The limit to that type of character would mean that character never meeting justice or learning from their flaws and/or written positively.

[@thedarkestfateful]

I still remember the whitewashing of Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch. She was a mass murderer that was somehow given a redemption storyline in the same movie she mass murdered in, instead of leaning into her villain era.

[@cross6781]

"children in the 90's could handle these, but not adults in 2024" is such a mood and perfectly exemplifies the issue with this society of adults being children. edit: I do think that the point of the 'tell, don't show' adage of modern storytelling is because actual "writers" and "directors" are absolute bufoons, and clearly think themselves higher than the next guy, so in their delusion, they feel the need to explain everything ever.

[@Omnicrush333]

Totally agree, Disney is an example of this, the last really good Disney animated movie in my opinion was Encanto, it delt with heavy and relatable themes without telling the audience straight up what was going on. Raya and Turning Red did similar things but personally I think both films are just okay. Then compare that to Wish, completely sanitized, nothing unique tried (besides the art style that falls flat). Same can be said with the Disney remakes, they lack the nuance that the original ones had. This sanitation of stuff has lead to me seeking out older media, more adult media, and honestly I feel like this hasn't become a problem since until now, there were plenty of kid shows that got dark in the 2010's and 2020's, why are we regressing now and trying to sanitize everything as to not scare the kids. News flash, they can handle it. (Sorry for the lengthy response but I totally agree with your comment)

[@SammaclauseGamgee]

As soon as a character starts telling me they did something or explaining why they did something.....just a few minutes after they did it, I tune out. It's obvious when the writer thinks the audience is too stupid to get the "nuance" in their very basic writing. These people should not have the jobs they have. They should have to pay a few more dues, maybe take some more writing classes, iff anything, before being handed the reins to big movies. I mean, Ive got a degree in writing and I'm still trying to muster up the courage to publish, because I think when I do publish, it should be something worth paying money for.

[@PirateMF]

But the children in the 90s are the adults in 2024! What went wrong?

[@gespenst1329]

@@PirateMFMedia was being sanitized in that same 90’s time period.

[@RINAisNerd]

​@@PirateMF That the higher-ups, aka the children of the '60 or '70, are preventing us to do our jobs. That's what went wrong.

[@elijahbranch1943]

Everyone forgets Tony stark was a drunk for years. He already made expenital growth before his womanizing antics took center stage. And he grew out of both

[@A_YouTube_Commenter]

This is very accurate. Human flaws do not go away because we pretend they aren't there. It feels like censorship to try to sanitize the realism of it.

[@chibicelesti4859]

All of this

[@bluestylite7780]

It also makes you Ill equiped to deal with the real world

[@BiggieTrismegistus]

The worst Harley Quinn redemption story is in the _Injustice_ comic. She and The Joker _blow up a nuclear bomb in Metropolis and murder millions of people_ and *no one* holds it against her. They never even bring it up! It's not long before she's tagging along with the heroes and as far I can remember not once does she express regret for what happened or even acknowledge it.

[@wallyhackenslacker]

For real?! I haven't read injustice, but wow. Even for the low standards of super hero comics that's really shit writing.

[@BiggieTrismegistus]

@@wallyhackenslacker Yes, for real. The writing in superhero comics was usually decent to good and occasionally great until the last 8 or so years. Outside the moral disaster that is Harley Quinn _Injustice_ and _Injustice 2_ are pretty damn good. I put off reading _Injustice_ forever despite the good things I heard about it because I don't like "evil Superman" stories. I was pleasantly surprised when I did finally check it out. In the beginning Superman deciding to be more proactive and Batman's opposition to it are nuanced. Superman kind of does have a point and Batman occasionally comes off as a prick. It's only once Superman begins to compromise his morals more and more often that he truly becomes the villain of the story.

[@Zerker102]

OMFG YOUR RIGHT. This literally never occurred to me. I just always think it was just joker who did it. It actually make no sense why anyone in the comic would associate with her after that.

[@BeautyMarkRush]

No accountability... where did I see it before? Oh right, on almost every movie/game nowadays

[@ianmcfadden2794]

They bring it up more than once she does not get redeemed, and there is a very imapctful moment where the kents trash her and refuse to let her in her house with the rest of the heros.

[@javierramirez1805]

When you're an "adult" who can't handle things kids could handle in the 80s, 90s, even the 2000s, and have to whine, complain like an immature baby, you don't deserve any type of respect or deserve to be taken seriously. No wonder people consider entertainment to be dead. And then people wonder why there are articles saying, "Older Shows are more Popular than New Ones. Why?" *Points to immature idiots* That's why

[@muffnman980]

I think we need to use the "sociological imagination" to understand where these mature idiots are coming from

[@sianais]

This strange attitude is popping up everywhere, too. On a manhwa that has been popular for almost a decade, I came across a weird recent comment where the idiot reading accused the author of being sexist because one of the side characters, who is a bully, said something rude about the female lead. I was so shocked by the stupidity I just stared at it. I was even more confused by the fact it got likes. In a fantasy period novel, another author got accused of classism because the main character (who was actively fighting against the classist hierarchy, mind you) had to exist in a universe where classism is accurately portrayed. Weird comments like these have been cropping up over the years and they get support. It's honestly disturbing how some people can't understand depicted doesn't equal supported. Even children don't think this literally.

[@BuizelCream]

That's so true tho. These attacks are no longer showcasing just their opinions or their dislikes and then go away. These kinds of people should suffer the consequences themselves by being criticized the same exact way. ​@@sianais

[@Avatariuz]

It's modern Marxism/Maoism, shame everything and everyone into submission or to get what you want. Mao used the young generation who are students in universities to get into power and in the end control the entire country. And now these clowns want to put same ideologies everywhere and even try to change past human history to fit for their eyes (Cleopatra, and some characters like in Vikings), yeah movies done this but they are movies and they are to be taken lightly while these modern takes are serious about it.

[@Avatariuz]

I had a comment about certain communist people of past and my comment isn't to be shown here wtf yt.

[@Snowglare]

Well said! The Hays Code was a mistake we don't need to repeat. I'm a huge fan of "fun, safe" entertainment where the goodies win and the baddies get punished, but I'd never want it all to be like that. There's room for dark, unapologetic stories, too, and those will be popular as they were in the past. You can't make people settle for saccharine fluff or care about flawless characters.

[@Afrecta]

"If I don't like something, I won't watch it" That's the problem. They want EVERY person on the planet to engage in the media, so it needs to be watered down and SAFE. They don't care about making it morally okay to watch, they care about making thier net as wide as possible. There are so many video games I've loved that have announced they are "making the game for a broader audience" and it gets watered down and ruined every time after that sentence. Latest example of that is the Halo TV show. Bonnie said she wanted to make it for a broader audience, so all the Halo fans hated the Halo show. So I submit that the issue discussed in this video isn't about creators and executives wanting to promote good morals, but wanting to appeal to as many people as possible in hopes for the most money possible.

[@HaganeNoGijutsushi]

With game to live action adaptation I think it's inevitable to have to broaden the net somehow as you probably couldn't get enough of an audience to earn back the production costs if you ONLY stuck to the original gamers. But of course neither can you make everything broaden targeted at literally everyone.

[@lalehiandeity1649]

@@HaganeNoGijutsushiThe Mario and FNAF movies appealed primarily to fans, yet they were both massive successes.

[@jennycomelately]

The Harley Quinn one is particularly sad because of the “true crime” boom that happened years after her premiere. There are the school shooter and serial killer f*tishists that are rightfully being lampooned and Harley was the *perfect* archetype for that! They could have been so relevant if they kept her as is. Plus erasing the idea that a victim of abuse is capable of being a perpetrator of it as well is just wild. Depending on comics vs cartoon continuity she still perpetrated horrific violence against a child(the second or third Robin), and I’m supposed to cheer for her as a girlboss hero because she’s a strong independent lesbian now??? Ew, no thank you!

[@yewknight]

Holy hell that is a good point and it would have been poignant.

[@Krimsin01]

if writers want her to not be connected to the joker, they dont have to make her a hero. keep her as a villain, make her run her own gang, and if they want to make her do good things, help whenever the joker does anything, but nothing else, and make the separation make sense

[@pif375]

and lets not forget the cartoons canon comic, that shows that her only graduated psychology because she fucked the teacher to raise her grades.

[@pennygirl015]

You act as if there isn’t ten dozen different versions of Harley Quinn anyways. This version happens to be a different character to the normal one, grow up, it’s not that big of a deal. No one expects you to worship the new one. And i didn’t hear one single criticism about the show itself. Just that HQ doesn’t meet your standards to her character. The whole point of DC and Marvel characters is that they can be molded into whatever you want them to be for your said story. There is a problem with corporations half assing products. Like the new Star Wars trilogy. The Harley Quinn HBO show isn’t apart of that issue. If it doesn’t make sense to the story to change a character (like with Luke Skywalker) than you have a point. But when a new story makes changes as long as it doesn’t hurt the story within itself it shouldn’t matter how they handle the characters different aspects from the original. But oh no we must only have the crazy same version of Harley over and over again. And over again.

[@pennygirl015]

@@Harls1992 I literally said there’s a lot of issues with Hollywood nowadays. Did you not read my comment. But changing characters to be better fit your story is not one of them. I’m not defending dcs terrible decisions. I’m defending characters being different from their original.

[@esalkor03]

"Cautionary tales," "challenging moral quandary," "irredeemable characters." So many great stories & characters have been diluted from their foundation. Harley being changed as much as she has SUCKS. Most people have grown annoyed with her. Avatar lost all its great subtle narrative with blunt exposition, & this is a work that wanted to be 'Netflix's Game of Thrones'? They are so lost with how storytelling works & what made these franchises beloved...

[@jameslazaridis4180]

Well it called MONEY!!! 💴 obviously

[@michaellane5381]

Tbf GoT is still just a masterpiece made train wreck(no proper ending) so that does fit😅

[@ExeErdna]

@@jameslazaridis4180 What money? They're losing money at this rate and are constantly taking loans to float. Then make the same mistakes again

[@quangamershyguyyz7166]

@@ExeErdnaWhere did you get that information?

[@ExeErdna]

@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Bruv, it's OPEN AIR that these companies are bleeding money. The CW was working at the lost for damn near 10 years. Disney lost billions in the last 5 years. Pay attention instead of going "where I get that info"

[@nondescriptindividual3793]

Something I think these people forget about in "is this bad to show?" is the *framing* matters Sokka's sexism is IMMEDIATELY framed as a FLAW because of Katara's reaction, and Suki's reaction - the audience immediately knows that this isn't a favorable trait to have, and arguably it's better to show it for awareness sake rather than pretend it doesn't exist - because that's how people *learn* about these things that's why depicting isn't promoting as you said - if it's framed as 'hey! this is bad', there's nothing wrong with including it

[@jkmrsy]

And let’s not forget character development. Sokka improved and learned that his views were wrong as the show continued.

[@Cookieofdoom]

That's why Johnny Bravo was great. Everyone knew he was an idiot except the censors...

[@N.I.A23]

Nothing wrong with hateful views.

[@TheHyperTuber-VantaBlack]

This. ALL of this. I've seen schools actually pulling "To Kill a Mockingbird" off the shelves and curriculums because it "makes people uncomfortable." WHEN THAT IS LITERALLY THE POINT OF THE BOOK, IT'S A DEEP DIVE INTO THE ERAS OF SEGREGATION, OF COURSE IT'S GOING TO MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE. I could rant about this kind of thing for hours and hours, holy crap. This was a fantastic video and rant.

[@purplelibraryguy8729]

As a Canadian, it freaks me out that in, I assume, the US, "To Kill a Mockingbird" can still make people uncomfortable. Isn't it about time you folks changed things enough for that book to be old news?

[@TheHyperTuber-VantaBlack]

@@purplelibraryguy8729 I feel as if you're misunderstanding why the book would make someone feel uncomfortable. Many of the people alive today either weren't around or were extremely young during the era of segregation. I was born in 2004, I don't have any experience in a world dictated by Jim Crow Laws. As a result, to read such a terrifyingly real depiction of what that life used to be like, how unfair it was for people back then, and how it was just...accepted? Yeah, it makes me feel uncomfortable that it was how things used to be. I'm not even white and it makes me feel that way. It's the whole point of the book, to make us feel uncomfortable...because that's what segregation should feel to us. This awful thing which makes us feel wrong or bad to even think about it, let alone consider it.

[@anastasia-fr1gn]

@@purplelibraryguy8729when I was in school years ago (whew this really dates me) no one in my class was uncomfortable about that book. White, Hispanic, black, Asian. We were a diverse high school and we read it. We discussed the themes of the book, the extreme racism of the times and why it was important. It wasn’t until after I graduated that slowly things like trigger warnings evolved into flat out censorship or not wanting to even acknowledge that media/books can portray negative things without being negative itself.

[@SirFailsalot91]

"Depiction of X is promotion of X" is the very logic that has killed the very existence of debate, "Allowing someone to defend their opinions that I consider hate speech means you are promoting it" - it's utterly ridiculous, we're not allowed to say or show anything if it makes one loud obnoxious person feel bad, we're being bossed around by adult children.

[@gunkulator1]

Yeah, no. Denigrating a group of people because of who they are is not an opinion. It's bigotry. Bigotry is infantile type of thinking so don't be surprised when you get treated like a child for expressing it.

[@cauan-ex2ph]

​@@gunkulator1He did not mention bigotry.

[@SirFailsalot91]

@@gunkulator1 thanks for making my point - rather than actually being exposed to something uncomfortable and actually challenging it, your knee jerk reaction is to assume what I mean and immediately reject it instead.

[@febbledebble]

@@SirFailsalot91 Nah bro in this case you didn’t make it clear enough about what you were talking about. Simple saying you wish to be able to “debate” or “defend” hate speech is pretty weird… Maybe use an example of what you actually mean??

[@gunkulator1]

@@cauan-ex2ph 90% of the time, hate speech is simply bigotry that masquerades as mere opinion. Maybe that's not what he meant but I'll go with the odds.

[@morrisonscott1139]

If they want Harley Quinn to be good then actually have her try to do good and have her atone for all her atrocities in an organic way instead of just saying she's good simply because she decides to want to hook up with Ivy instead of Joker.

[@MRPandoraHartDR]

Ah yes, Poison Ivy who for decades has boasted no man (or woman) can resist my sexual charms once I've drugged them into being mere puppets for me...😆

[@christopherauzenne5023]

Yeah, I think the only time a saw this attempted in any way was this Batman comic line that involved Bruce loosing his money and ghostmaker, then when one of the people who suffered because of joker confronted Harley she admits she has done awful things and she is trying to atone for it. But this is the only story I saw that tried doing this Frankly what I think is worse is when people write stories about Harley breaking free of joker but still have her be a villain, like no that’s not a good thing. becoming a villain was one of the ways joker manipulation her so she’s following him.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Or just say that she’s more neutral after leaving him. She doesn’t have to be perfect

[@fabianpohl4335]

Fuck that is a writing idea! Harley seperates from joker and tries to become a good noodle, and fails again and again because of traume and normalized behaviour and have to relearn in a funny sarcastic way to become a good noodle again. They can even have the lesbian relationship with maybe a shy but fluffy nice girl, where Harley have to be very careful not to become her Joker by accident. That is smth watchable, in comparison to "She is now an independent Lesbian figthing patriachy and therfore the good girl with no flaws (even if she is doing horrible stuff)"

[@nairocamilo]

Remember to watch her _Batman Animated Series_ holdiay special episode, you can even find it here on KZbin! The name is "Harley's Holiday"

[@OverthinkingConde]

In parallel to female character not being allowed to be wrong about certain things, I noticed how at the same time they aren't allowed to have male co-protagonist (specially if they are love interests) that aren't villains or clearly stupider than the female character. I guess because an equal male love interest would automatically cancel the woman's agency? According to Hollywood's POV

[@geoffreychauvin1474]

I noticed that crap recently when I was watching the most recent suicide squad movie. Harley goes off on this diatribe about red flags and what she has told herself she should never settle for again, and it was just cringey. Also the fact that they have now canonically tried to make it that she killed the joker. It's just lame.

[@markpostgate2551]

​@@geoffreychauvin1474 Also, if she is truly free of The Joker's influence, why isn't she Harleen Quinzel again? 🤔

[@OverthinkingConde]

@@markpostgate2551 Never, Harley Queen is too valuable of an IP to change her permanently, even if it made sense

[@harleybtasfan90s]

​@@OverthinkingCondeHarley "Queen" is so cringe

[@harleybtasfan90s]

​@@geoffreychauvin1474facts

[@Prototype-357]

Netflix The Last Airbender really was a wake up call for me of how bad things have gotten, I was considering watching it myself but after seeing all the reviews and discussions and clips I decided agaisnt it cause it just doesn't interest me, the fact that a Nickelodeon cartoon from the mid 2000's has more nuance than live action show in 2024 is just plain embarassing, and people still have the gall to say the netflix version is the "mature" version.

[@wesmcinerny4524]

Such arrogance modern remakes possess.

[@zzodysseuszz]

Reading comics since the early 2000’s is what woke me up. Comics got hit first. They became worse than most media today all the way back in 2013 and it just got worse and got worse and even worse since. Hasn’t even peaked since it’s still getting worse. The comics industry is a disaster right now.

[@annbrew8337]

I did not have expectations for the show at all since i have a big hate for everything that i grew up with now needing a hollow live action or a remake. Disney is especially bad with this with their remakes of Alladin, Mulan, Lady and the tramp, Lion king, The little mermaid etc and even Stich coming up. Avatar did not need a "better" take on a live action it just needed to be left the fuck alone same with other old classics. I still went ahead to watch the live action because i had been curious for years and had planned to hate watch it if i did not enjoy it but it was just so awful that i stopped after the first episode. I really wish big companies just made new stories instead of breaking apart people's beloved classics.

[@wesmcinerny4524]

@@annbrew8337 Just don't pay to see any live-action remake of anything animated and stick with the animated classics. Encourage kids to do the same.

[@spf234]

It actually has a lot of good in it. There are some frustrating parts like the casting choice for Azula and Kitara's Mary sue-ish arc. But actually there is a lot of good choices they did knock out of the park and in my opinion made better than the cartoon.

[@SammaclauseGamgee]

Sokka is also a literal child in the beginnihg of the series. His whole arc is him growing into a man, and part of it is him losing that immaturity toward girls and women.

[@devinthedivine8554]

I studied film in college and met a lot of immature people that idolized characters that are obviously not meant to be idolized like Joker, Harley, Rick Sanchez, Walter White, Patrick Bateman, etc. I think that a lot of people working in film get so obsessive over fictional characters that they forget that normal people will like a character without wanting to be them

[@victorcates9330]

There are various purposes to fiction. Running a simulation or examining the dark parts of yourself doesn't prevent other stories being more about modelling desirable behavior. But wilful ignorance would have problems if we then can't use it to understand our flaws, the moral dangers in play, and can't stop behaviours that we can't understand. For instance, if you did want to steer people away from fascism, it would be a problem if you - as a matter of principle - couldn't understand its appeal. American psycho was a great film and didn't pull punches. The threat that Patrick represented to Chloe Sevigny's character was ugly. Another example of ugliness might be 'Blue Velvet'. But it's incisive because of the moral problem it presents (with a brutal cost). By contrast, making villains sympathetic rarely winds up with something to say and have to dodge consequences. Relativism where you can't show the broken flesh left behind seems stunted.

[@malcolmferguson4869]

5:23 - 6:04 Azula is also a perfect example of this. She was a victim of her father like Zuko was, but unlike him, she made all the wrong choices, resulting in a tragic end for her. It's perfectly OK to have a tragic character who is too far gone to save. Yet I recently saw someone call the show "sexist" for giving Zuko a redemption arc and not her. Ugh... How much do you wanna bet the Netflix version will try to redeem her?

[@bessieburnet9816]

Zuko made way to many wrong decisions and was still thrown a bone. Both him and Azula are children, Azula is fourteen. If a fourteen year old abuse victim is incapable of being healed, why was Zuko healed?

[@ry4375]

@@bessieburnet9816 Because, and I imagine I have a different opinion than others, Azula is still a bad person. She’s mean and I’m the show clearly looks to be enjoying hurting the other characters. Zuko tried to hurt the gaang out of a sense of duty and necessity, and while obviously Azula felt the pressure from her father, we didn’t see her struggle with her choices nearly as much as Zuko. Even as a little kid we see her be mean to her friends, and that was before Ozai was even firelord. Just because she has moments of vulnerability and kindness, does not make her a better person.

[@Avatarfan10000]

Given that Azula is 14, there is more good reason why people want to see her redeemed. It isn't just people like her; not many people want to give up on a literal child. Empathy is stronger, given how she is also abused. It's more understandable that people would want to help a child. I don't mind her not getting a redemption arc in the show. Azula would only be able to be redeemed when the war ended. It would also take a long time to help her as well. Azula isn't a lost cause, but making a redemption arc for her to work would take a lot. I want to state that we only see Azula as a young child from Zuko's point of view. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that Zuko remembers Azula worse and Ozai better in his memories because, at the time, he was still seeking his father's approval. The Netflix version of her Redemption would be terrible because, Like I said, Azula can only be redeemed when the war is over. In my opinion, Azula can only be redeemed if others prove fear isn't a way to get her way.

[@malcolmferguson4869]

@@ry4375I agree. Azula is a tragic character, but she's not the misguided precious flower some people like to pretend she is.

[@TheAnimaAnimal]

Is it just me who feel kind of justified in all of this wave of criticism? It's so difficult to find female characters at the top of a franchise's most powerful or prominent character list. It always has to be one or *gasp* two women/girls who are among the strongest but never strong enough or important enough to really be respected. Men got away with having quantity on their side as well as just straight up being the norm for powerful, important and well written characters yet giant entertainment businesses couldn't figure out what to do with Wonder Woman for literal decades upon decades. I'm just tired of looking around in entertainment media and only seeing dude after dude get the golden character development and story arc treatment. And if it is GOOD female depiction it 80% of the time is because of their struggle of being a woman (blue eyed samurai). I simply want to be, feel included and strong and reading amazing stories where being man or woman doesn't matter. Avatar is as close as we could get to that, and I finally got it in Korra. But damn if seeing Azula defeated didn't rub a bitter part of me the wrong way. Because, like in almost every media so far, there always has to be a guy who is on top of it all.

[@amphibiansriseup596]

Those so-called “journalists” have the media literacy of a 5 year olds.

[@ExeErdna]

Yet that call everybody else media illiterate... When they get mad at everything lukewarm, while on twitter, discord and IRL they're outright hellions

[@MegaPokefan97]

Even a 5 year old is more media literate than these so-called journalists

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

That’s an insult to 5 year olds (not even joking. 5 year olds UNIRONICALLY understand media better than these clowns.).

[@sgtjerry2001]

I can't give my opinion on jernos without getting a hate speech warning from big brother KZbin again

[@marlonmontelhiggins8570]

​@@sgtjerry2001 - The Caesar cipher is your friend here.

[@SquidwardSmellsGOOD734]

These out-of-touch adults who complain about unsavory character traits are probably the same people who grew up on nothing but safe, squeaky clean sitcoms from the 70s and 80s.

[@kingleech16]

I dunno, “Taxi” would probably blow their minds.

[@wolfsongrising]

I've been finding it to be a lot of younger people/folks born after 90s in my experience actually....idk its weird.

[@hope-cat4894]

Nah, those sitcoms still had jokes that would be considered offensive by modern standards. I think they're people who never stopped watching PBS/Nick Jr. cartoons well into adulthood and never had an adult explain to them about the real world.

[@SquidwardSmellsGOOD734]

@@hope-cat4894 Yeah, that could also be a plausible reason.

[@mistmistly4750]

This is exactly what's happening with characters and depictions of violence in Hazbin Hotel. I could write an essay about how you nailed every point that can be applied to people's so called "criticism" towards that series and its villains.

[@suddenlycrows]

Dear god let's not even get started with people's visceral reaction when you tell people you like Valentino.

[@mistmistly4750]

@@suddenlycrows "You're a fan of Val? You must support r*pe." It's BONKERS.

[@toothless3835]

@@suddenlycrows That hugely depends on why you like him. If you like him as a villain because he's 100% terrifying as a villain, then yeah, that's fine in my opinion. Liking a character to hate them is fun. I absolutely HATE adam and rooted for his death every step of the way and was happy when he finally did die. But if someone likes Valentino for I don't know, being what he is, then I'd call them a bit insane. You're supposed to want his destruction. Call for his death because of how vile he is. Not sympathies with him. THere are villains to sympathize with. Loki [who became an anti-hero] and Snape [who was an aashate but doing good even if not for "the right reasons" or even in a nice way] are characters you can understand how they got to where they started at the beginning of their stories and how they reached the end of them. Then there's other villains who are either evil to just be evil [which are usually poorly written characters and kind of boring] or vile that they have no interesting qualities and you're cheering for their demise. Valentino and Adam are in this category.

[@raymaikeru]

@@toothless3835I don't quite get the last part. I mean I freakin love Jack Horner in Puss in Boots 2. He was hilarious and it seems the public is sorta the same, despite the fact he was evil just to be evil. Which could just be because of Disney not really wanting to make villains anymore and people were getting sick of it. They want to go back where Disney made villains who were just villains like classic Maleficent or Ursula. Maybe it's because of Jack Horner being hysterical, or because he adds a driving force to the narrative?

[@MagcargoMan]

Maybe don't give so much time and attention to a crappy tumblr series.

[@ixelhaine]

I remember when X-Men Apocalypse was being advertised & there was a billboard that got grief for having Apocalypse (the genocidal villain) choking Mystique because it "promotes violence against women". I remember thinking "but he's the bad guy, violence towards women is being vilified."

[@PhoenixGC89]

I remember that! It made zero sense!

[@anastasia-fr1gn]

Not to mention I’m sure he doesn’t exclusively choke women. Maybe they should have replaced Mystique with Professor X lol

[@Moonless-ih9em]

Well to be fair, this kind of thing (strangl. NOT choking by the way) has apparently been on the rise especially among younger men, doing that to women without asking and continuing to do do even when they get angry or cry. It's very worrying and obviously a thing because these younger men have watched some violent p gra. phy and wrongly assume that it's normal 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@vonnie0_0]

Media literacy has been attacked for the past 10 years, and this newest example clearly showcases that problem. They want to pander to those types who *don’t understand* that depicting something in media doesn’t mean you condone it. Now every character has to be good from the very beginning, there’s no conflict, there’s little to no character development, which is one of the main reasons why people like stories in the first place. I agree with everything you said in this vid. 👍

[@knightmarespawn2690]

Which is funny, considering those are the same types who call others media illiterate.

[@raymondsmith2040]

They want to appeal to their echochamber who still live in lala land and refuse to grow up.

[@WokioWolfy]

These guys are just teenage rebel kids in the body of adults who think that being progressive and diverse is cool while the world is at war against those people.

[@SonOvLaw]

It's like there needs to be a fourth wall break in everything where all the characters look at the viewer and go "Hey this is bad, and not good. And this story is about how it's bad and not good, okay? Cool! Now back to the story."

[@arieljourdan2375]

That didn’t work for the Lolita book prologue lol, not even in the time it was published

[@SonOvLaw]

@@arieljourdan2375 so what? Do it anyway. Then if people bitch they can just accept being told that they were warned.

[@PhilRiveraMedia]

So, I'm an 80's kid, a 90's teen and an artist. I've lived through so many awesome shows, movies and media. I've seen how good it can get. Believe me, I feel your frustration. It's totally justified. This annoying path we've been going down is only about a decade old but we can already see the cracks forming. So, keep fighting the good fight, Jester! It's always darkest before the dawn. Younger story tellers and film makers like yourself with common sense will win in the end.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Hate to break it to ya, but you’re probably at least 30

[@MALICEM12]

​@@cosmicspacething3474and?

[@cosmic_kid2868]

Preach!!!!! Bradbury’s famous work Fahrenheit 451 once warned about sanitizing entertainment of its humanity, culture and relatability in order to not offend anyone. Art is meant to make you think and sometimes feel uncomfortable. We are ruining our ability to tell good stories out of fear of offense, it’s a sad time for art. Treating the audience as if they are dumb and incapable of independent thought is gross.

[@shannonmcelroy8454]

And in the end, we learn that the books that were outlawed by the government were preserved by a group of outsiders by keeping them in their minds for the next generations to learn.

[@Chibiknux]

Imagine a breaking bad animated remake where Walter White stills murders ppl and cooks meth, but he no longer bullies and abuses his wife to make him more... morally... correct

[@aliciafraser1835]

I mean, that could still work if written correctly. Showing up in public as the perfect husband, kind and caring, only to actually be a piece of shit, that Revelation slowly unraveling and becoming clearer as the story progresses.

[@febbledebble]

@@aliciafraser1835 The problem is that is NOT Walter White. That is a different person who coincidentally cooks meth and kills people. If people want to redo a story with the same character, don’t try to erase their flaws. It’s not fun to watch at all. Literally the moment I saw Aang leave the air temple to clear his mind rather than running away, I immediately got pissed and stopped watching afterwards. Even *such* a tiny change in one’s character can make the biggest difference and will not be received well.

[@aliciafraser1835]

@@febbledebble except... I'm that scenario it's not eating the flaws. It's at best hiding them temporarily or replacing them with other flaws. A character doesn't have to be written the exact same way everytime, so long as the Spirit of Said character is there. Granted this is a completely subjective point of view anyway so /shrugs/ I Guess?

[@daynial2240]

​@@aliciafraser1835 I get your point, but Walter's main thing was that he desperately craved power since he's spent so long feeling underappreciated for his admittedly superb chemistry skills, and the Heisenberg persona allowed him to get the respect and fear he thought he deserved. This is inevitably going to reflect on how he treats his family, as Skyler has been the one to call the shots throughout, which hurts his ego since it reminds him of the time where he used to be pushed around by everyone. In Season 5, after having completely lost her trust by bombing a nursing home, there's no getting her on his side anymore, and she's too smart to manipulate, so he essentially threatens her into submission, which clearly bothers him as well since he did care about her but now there's little more he can do to keep both his family and his position as kingpin. It doesn't help that he's likely still resentful that she gave most of his money to her ex which almost got them all killed, so he rationalizes his behavior by blaming it all on her. If somehow the writers could not or didn't want to make their MC an abuser and had to change this idea, it would be doable if executed correctly but it would no doubt require to change some major parts of who their main character is if they don't want it coming across as forced. Heck, they somewhat did that with Jimmy McGill, who has a similar downfall but with different motivations which all reflect in his destructive if still loving relationship with Kim, who unlike Skyler really enjoyed the crime life. Sorry for the text, even though Walter White deserves every essay he gets cuz he's such a good character.

[@authorbrittanyrosebutler]

"Do you know how stories work? Do you know why we read stories?" 😆 Thank you for making and sharing this video.

[@lincolnadams83]

Today’s audience wants “to be” the story not “hear or watch” a story. Therefore no character that feels representative of that particular audience member can have real flaws because then that audience member might have to examine their own flaws….and Lord knows we can’t have that.

[@NoahSylva-u3n]

They are fully aware of their flaws, that’s why they don’t want a character that represents their flaws, it’s so petty really

[@Spubbily01]

I want characters to have my flaws so that I can learn from them

[@New3DSLuigi364]

@@NoahSylva-u3n Yeah; Because They don't want to be called out like that; because they see it as an attack on their ego

[@eternaldarkbrin]

The false belief that fiction is meant to train rather than entertain. Sounds like a theme in story telling we need right now. Who gonna do it!

[@MALICEM12]

.... fiction is literally there to give a message (to train). This novel idea that most fiction should just be a cheap meaningless amusement park ride is a very modern and decadent one. Most stories exist FOR A REASON. I can't stand this centrist willful ignorance

[@eternaldarkbrin]

​@MALICEM12 Yet, where did the idea that violence in fiction trains us to be violent come from? As if the depiction of violence trains us to hurt others. That's what I'm talking about.

[@eternaldarkbrin]

@@MALICEM12 also you are wrong, fiction can train, but it fails at doing anything when its soul purpose is to train rather than entertain. otherwise, why should the audience give a damn. the majority of the audience did not come to the theater to be trained, or feel like they are at church. or be preached to about the greatness of gender identity. instead, if there is a message in a story, its there to make it more entertaining, appealing, and give us a reason to care where we otherwise would not have. fiction feels more meaningful and entertaining when it has a message that it shows by example, but that does not mean that its supposed to train.

[@MALICEM12]

@@eternaldarkbrin you are wrong, just another liberal who doesn't see the social engineering for what it is. It's most certifiably there to train, it's just that it's either too subtle for you (most) to consciously see or you are so used to its messages that you don't see them as messages but as mere facts of life. Like when people say StarWars wasn't political. StarWars was ALWAYS political...it's just that it's politics were very liberal and middle of the road and agreeable for most in its day and thus they didn't perceive it as political. But stories have always had morals. Even the oldest ones most know like old fairytales, were there specifically to teach moral lessons to kids. Case in point, the pied Piper, a story centuries old that we all know. Was the purpose of the Pied Piper merely to entertain children? No, it was to teach them a lesson. When the towns people didn't pay the piper for getting rid of the rats, the piper came back and lewd all the town's children into the same river he drowned the rats in. The moral of the story is to always pay your dues. That's the entire point of the tale. Likewise when you watch the latest hot trash Hollywood has baked for you, it has a message too. The difference is, now it's either of so poor of execution or of such a disagreeable message that you are only now starting to see it. It always amuses me when Joe centrist normies will whine about how preachy and offensive some feminist chanting movie is of today, beating them over the head with "the message". Only to then say "old movies were better, this example wasn't woke!" And point to just an earlier form of the same propaganda they are whining about. Every story told by a half competent person has a point to it, it's just that the better executed the work is the more likely the audience is to either tolerate the point or not notice it at all. It's called subliminal messaging, and it works.

[@eternaldarkbrin]

@@MALICEM12 do you believe then, that depicting false ideologies is training?

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

Something JB said reminded me of this quote, which was Mr Kubrick's response to being asked why he never personally used any 'mind-altering substances'... *_"Perhaps when everything is beautiful, nothing is beautiful."_* - Stanley Kubrick

[@mack-attack-420]

This is why people love Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2. An unapologetic, irredeemable villain who SPOILERS literally explodes at the end. Other characters try to understand and redeem him, but the movie clearly states that some people are just irredeemable and will take their toxicity to the grave. No one (probably) wants to BE Jack Horner, but this is a childrens movie that treats its audience like adults. I dont understand why so much stuff is censored and simple now, with characters that dont act like people. Maybe its just the cycles of society, when the pendulum swings one way, its bound to swing the other eventually.

[@Jacks_ofhearts]

Characters nowdays looks like a bunch of Mary Sues and Gary Stus

[@OwO377]

It became very predictable at this point.

[@DD-ms4zr]

That or an unredeemable joke of a villain.

[@smolltaco5667]

The root of this is greed killing passion

[@Cardinal_claw]

​@@smolltaco5667Greed and ""activism"", in the sense of either bare minimum or flipping the inequality/discrimination onto another group to prove how progressive they are.

[@TheAnimaAnimal]

Except Gary Sues are apparently just mildly irritating at best and Mary Sues are apparently the first coming of the anti christ 🙄

[@compassion4all31]

I feel very sad for those who simply CANNOT decipher between ENTERTAINMENT and REAL LIFE. I remember in nursing school learning this concept was similar to Concrete Thinking. I think it is usually present in 2-5 year olds. They mentally cannot grasp the concept of discernment, it's just not there yet. So as adults if they have not developed past this mode of thinking, they will attempt to bend and twist everyone else's REALITY no matter if its a movie, joke, story, etc. so it validates them internally. They are emotionally under developed. Not a judgement but it appears they still have a lot to learn.

[@arnowisp6244]

They are just Emtionally and Mentally under developed. Period.

[@WokioWolfy]

It's clout chasing because they teenage rebels in the guise of adults who wanna scam and grift things to make people like them.

[@さくら-l8t]

I feel like the reason why Harley was so beloved by a lot of fans was because of her iconic design, ditzy personality, and voice. When you take away those things, you realize she’s kind of a hollow character who doesn’t really stand out from the joker or other Batman characters. I feel like there were a lot of missed opportunities when writing her character, like how underutilized her knowledge in psychology is. Being a former psychologist, she could easily manipulate her enemies into unknowingly carrying out the joker’s plans, taking advantage of their traumas and flaws to mentally break them. It makes her goofy demeanor come off as more intimidating since it covers a dangerous mind. It would make further sense for her to do this since she was also a victim of manipulation by the joker, so it can be seen as a tactic she learned from him that she then further sharpens with her own psychology skills.

[@ceinwenchandler4716]

Oh, yeah, she IS a psychologist... dang, what you just described sounds awesome.

[@emowolfism]

I think the graphic novel “Harleen” kinda goes in a much different direction with the character that sort of similar to what ur saying

[@IndecisiveJR]

I think people just don’t know how to write Harley in general. People are hesitant to show the whole abusive relationship for Harley so without that she’s just kind of there….The appeal for me was seeing a character in a abusive relationship and wanting her to get out of the situation and I like seeing some comics where Harley actually does moves on but still has to deal with people trying to kill her and fully support herself.

[@BiggieTrismegistus]

Harley Quinn is the most obnoxious character in all of fiction.

[@TheeOK1]

To be completely fair, it was originally canon that she slept her way into her college degree. Which is why the Arkham series, which is loosely based on the BtAS series, never brought it up. She's effectively the legally blonde but cheated her way into her field

[@treceh]

Depicting is not promoting is a perfect example for why Bojack Horseman works as a series. His entire story is designed to be a cautionary tale: that while he may have had bad origins from an abusive household, his actions and choices as an adult led to direct consequences for why no one should aspire to be like him. He is miserable and isolated because of how he treated others and he’s not supposed to be an aspirational figure. That being an adult is recognizing it takes maturity and consistency to understand it’s not OK to treat others like that. So while people may relate to him in some ways, it should inspire the viewer to seek help and learn to treat their loved ones better.

[@shannonmcelroy8454]

It even helped me change in a lot of ways for the better because I saw the different ways people turn to unhealthy mindsets and how easy it is to get stuck in them if you choose to let it define you. A lot of people hold onto feelings of guilt, shame, and depression because they believe they have to, and there's no other way. But taking responsibility for your own happiness is the first step to healing.

[@WavePotter]

Nicely said! Characters need flaws to have any meaningful arc.

[@xXBoykisserXx]

It's my theory that the reason we've been moving towards the "death of media literacy" in recent years is because of children. With bad parents giving their children unrestricted access to the internet, these kids are exposed to things not made for them. I don't mean things like gore and such so much as I mean adult themes and things that are really only understandable if you've gone through a certain part of life. Personally, I consumed a lot of great media when I was younger and it never hit for me because I simply wasn't mature enough to connect with it, despite technically having all the information required to. We have a ton of information at our fingertips but none of the wisdom that comes with "naturally" learning it. These kids know what's right and wrong but don't "feel" it, they don't truly understand it, and since they don't understand what they're advocating for they can't pick up on nuance. Instead, they see this world that has rules to follow, and if you don't follow them, you'll be shunned. Instead of feeling morality, they feel fear of being ejected from the world, mixing that with underdeveloped life experience, the capability to access a wide plethora of media not made with them in mind, and the ability to say whatever you want online and have people agree with you no matter how bad the take has led to the current situation. That being said, it's important to note that there are also people who 𝘥𝘰 take these themes poorly and glorify these toxic traits the writers are trying to condemn. Guess what? they're also children. Attack on Titan is a great example of this, so many young men took Eren's character as someone to aspire to be instead of as a cautionary tale, not to mention they're probably defending their beliefs by going in the opposite direction of the first types and being as edgy and """"""adult"""""" as possible. Because these people not only exist but are the same age as the other ones rioting on social media, they compound the views of each other even more as they go to school with them and it becomes a whole layered mess. I don't want it to seem like I'm saying "kids stupid and bad and need to grow up", It isn't the fault of jimmy he's only twelve and it's not jimmy's fault he isn't mentally built to read the killing joke yet. If anything, it's the parent's fault for not parenting their kids.

[@doltBmB]

parent's don't parent, they can't parent, they both work long hours, the school parents, and you may say "they should", but they can't, a child will spend far more time with their teachers than their parents, so the teacher becomes, psychologically, the parenting figure.

[@xXBoykisserXx]

@@doltBmB fair point, the whole system is fucked

[@key5270]

Well said and I totally agree. Back when anime wasn't mainstream (early 2000s), it was a general consensus among anime fans to hate Light from Death Note while L, although a bit morally grey but is on the side of justice, is well-loved. It's only recently that I've seen some (but still plenty) defending Light or even rationalizing his actions as right. It is highly likely that most of current Light-fanatics are similar to those Eren-fanatics like you say, younger people who consumed adult media but aren't mature enough to have wisdom nor discernment. Me and my sibling were exposed to adult media at a very young age, but our parents were always there to supervise us, even teaching us to turn away if the scene is too violent or sexual. Kids nowadays have parents that are too lazy to watch what their kids are consuming.

[@NicolasGiaquinta]

@@key5270 In my country the split between L sympathizers and Kira apologists was way more even, but that can be attributed to the crime rates here being (at least perceived as) very high while the police does seemingly nothing about it. Suddenly the idea of a notebook that lets you get rid of criminals becomes very seductive to the middle class edgy teenagers that made up the majority of the anime fandom back in the day

[@allex2256]

My sister and I grew up watching R-rated movies often. But the results was that we seemed to be ahead in maturity from our peers. Watching adult content paired with children's content allowed me to draw connections between the two. I enjoyed each, was better able to understand the children's content, but enjoyed the spectacle and themes of the adult content. The difference between then and now, is that my sister and I understood that all of it was fiction. When we thought about how none of it was real and were able to think of it as an aside to real life, we were better prepared to be inspired and think critically with media rather than let it run our lives. The problem nowadays is that content is constantly in average life. The distinction between videos made by the average person and cinema is harder for young people to understand because they are often seeing both regularly, if not random videos made by random people more often.

[@28starwarsfan]

This reminds me of the articles talking about how Thomas the Tank and Paw Patrol were dangerously teaching and promoting fascism, but if the people in charge of the trains or the dogs were a diverse woman it would send the right message, showing that the underrepresented can and should have power. 😕

[@bobtheball5384]

This doesn't really make sense to me ngl cause Thomas the tank engine has been trying to strive for diversity with adding and removing trains (where does facism come into play...?) often and Paw Patrol is about dogs who act as the sole protectors/builders and whatever else they have in a town (a state I guess). I've never seen anyone get angry and call these two fascist so it must not be the popular belief

[@DarkSkyRender]

Paw Patrol does have some pretty wild depictions of the absolute power of private police forces with no nuance what so ever because it is a bad show. Thomas, though, leave Thomas alone. I have such fond childhood memories of the downfall of Diesel 10.

[@aiodensghost8645]

​@@DarkSkyRenderhate to break it to ya, but nothing is sacred on this planet. They will come for the Tank Engine soon enough.

[@NinjaTyler]

​@@aiodensghost8645too late it's been butchered to hell and is now just an empty shell made into a toddler show with horrible animation and crap redesigns, even turning one of the most famous bad trains into a good guys friend squad train now

[@marche800]

The main problem is that these creators are judging their characters and believing that these flaws are a problem in their story rather than an opportunity. Being closeminded is the antithesis of creativity, so of course, judging your characters is going to result in a less creative story. One of my favourite quotes in recent memory is "If we're weak...there's room to grown." Contrast is also important like you said. You can’t make a sweet moment without having bitterness to compare to.

[@a.n.9800]

Fanfic writer here, I accidentally coded a pretty alarming flaw into one of my POV characters whom I meant for the audience to root for (accidentally because I was thinking of plot progression and not character writing at the time) and you know what I did once I realized? Yeah I decided to KEEP THE FLAW because it made him interesting, and considering he’s the protagonist it would be interesting to try and get the audience to sympathize with a character who has this particular flaw. “Oh he’s only sorry because he has to suffer consequences, he doesn’t actually understand why it was wrong” yeah I wonder how that shapes his character journey and what it would take for him to actually get the message!! Let’s explore that!!! “What happens when someone learns the WRONG lesson” sounds interesting!

[@Captain-J-Amadaeus]

@@a.n.9800Seems interesting, can I get a name?

[@a.n.9800]

@@Captain-J-Amadaeus A name for the fanfic? It’s a series called “No Good Deed,” and it’s an Animator vs Animation fanfic (alternate universe, canon-divergent. If that matters to you o7). It’s divided into a prologue, three acts, and an epilogue, each of which I post separately. Currently only the prologue and act 1 are complete, but luckily act 1 is where the flaw takes root so you can still see it in its fledgeling stage at least XD

[@Captain-J-Amadaeus]

@@a.n.9800 Thank you kindly, screenshotted this, will read later today. :D

[@a.n.9800]

@@Captain-J-Amadaeus Y’know I probably should’ve mentioned where I post it, oops XD it’s on ao3

[@HybridMiranda]

Thank you for making this video, I could not agree more; I was writing a series of books, and at the same time, I got viral on Tiktok (back in 2020-21). There was a lot of pressure from the audience to make my characters a certain way, and it's just gotten worse since then, to the point that I stopped writing or making art because it was 'too extreme' or my characters were 'toxic' (and well duh, a 18-million year old demigod whose entire family was killed and then he offed himself to prevent the gods from abusing his power won't exactly be a nice guy when he's resurrected!). Your video gave me courage to be as 'extreme' or emotional or disturbing with my art and writing as I need to be. Art is a way to convey emotions and unsettling concepts in a safe way, to let people expose themselves and think.

[@hermeschase4113]

I was having this conversation about Harley with my brother the other day, one thing we don't like about modern Harley is the fact that Harley is supposedly "getting over" the Joker and growing out of her toxic relationship, yet she still prides herself in the identity the Joker crafted SPECIFICALLY for her as a show of manipulation, gaslighting and control lmfao Like, the Joker turned Harlene Quinzell into Harley Quinn, she didn't do it in her own volition, he manipulated her into falling in love with him, he promoted and instilled tons of dangerous ideas and behaviors into her head, he made her regress as a person, both morally and emotionally, he molded someone who was already not quite there into becomming an obsessed and psychotic killer and a threat to almost anyone she comes in contact with, Joker "made" Harley Quinn SPECIFICALLY to be HIS perfect tool. Yet, in these modern stories Harley is at the point where she still dresses like a clown, still uses the Joker's mannerisms and symbols, she's still morally and emotionally bankrupt (just in a lesser degree, although that one also depends on the story) she still clinges to every tiny bit of the identity the Joker crafted for her, yet SOMEHOW just because she's "part of the good guys" and no longer with the Joker it means she's fully independant and he no longer has any controll over her lmfao Like, if you're gonna redeem the character (you shouldn't, but let's say you do) you need to acknowledge that Harlene Quinzell HAS to get as far away as she can from the identity of Harley Quinn, because "Harley Quinn" is the definitive symbol of the Joker's success on controlling her. Like, authors often pretend to turn Harley into a quirky character you should be looking up to because she grew out of her toxic relationship and she's an independant girlboss, like some kind of role model, yet she STILL operates under every single trait and behavior the guy she despises so much teached and instilled into her. The Joker's manipulation over Harley worked so well even writers don't seem to be aware that he no longer needs to be present in Harley's life to have influence and control over her lol

[@spicyspace1319]

0 Klk😊klllll Lll😊l L😊 😊 Llllllllll😊 I'll lllll L Lp

[@chandlerburse]

@@hermeschase4113 didnt harley invent her harley quinn persona?

[@anastasia-fr1gn]

@@chandlerburseshe didn’t do it for herself. Harley Quinn is always going to be intrinsically tied to Joker. As the original comment says, the true way for her to be free of him is to forgo Harley Quinn completely. And to be honest, that would be the end of Harleen’s story arc because it would be mundane to write about Harleen returning to civilian life. Well, it could be a one shot comic about her adjusting to “normal” life. Or they could have her turn to vigilantism under a new persona. Either way, I think when writers try to distance Harley Quinn from Joker they end up not understanding the creation of her character. In some comics they’ve explored her trying to escape from Joker physically and mentally, and it’s interesting. But to not acknowledge and even reject that Harley Quinn is the Joker’s hold on Harleen is a disservice to good character writing.

[@Avatariuz]

Today film industry think the audience is dumb because they see them as children that needs to be educated through entertainment.

[@hope-cat4894]

​@TechnoticPlateThat's because this behavior is being encouraged by the very people doing the censorship in the first place. No one had a problem ignoring these people and mocking them years ago. We all know some of these people who are complaining about art being unsafe are probably grifters.

[@martinritchie7576]

When bad art becomes the norm, and good art criticized, art is lost, respect art, it's in danger of being forgotten

[@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthree]

Art has been a staple of humanity since we figured out how to leave our handprints on our caves. It won't be forgotten anytime soon.

[@Oxygen1004]

@@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthree Yes it won't be forgotten, but it can very well change for the worse

[@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthree]

@@Oxygen1004 Then make art to challenge the current direction. It's not rocket science to resist a bad artistic direction. It's simply the natural flow of things.

[@AKATenn]

you have to show bad things in order for people to learn they're bad things, if you hide bad things, they'll happen anyway, just in an uncontrolled and unmoderated and worse way than in a movie or historical factual doccument.... it almost feels like they're trying to hide these bad things because they do them, and they don't want people to know. while at the same time, they write the heroes to act more like the villains, and try to make the villains just "misunderstood" and that makes me think that first point even more... their mindset is like " just make the good guys look bad, and the bad guys look not so bad, so we don't look so bad."

[@ExeErdna]

The problem is they're so dumb they openly do everything they try to censore. It's why they constantly get caught on Twitter and Discord. Or videos of them saying wild ish that been posted years ago are popping up. They're not smart people just clever enough to worm themselves into spaces yet they do not understand the followthrough without self-sabotaging themselves.

[@BrightElk]

Muddying the waters so it’s less clear the difference between good and evil.

[@WokioWolfy]

Basically a huge grift and scam to rob money off of those companies in the guise of being progressive.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@BrightElk But not in a good way.

[@mrblond750]

OMG kids in the 90’s lived through the most aggressive children’s programming that ever existed. Loony tunes, Ren an Stimpy, Tom and Jerry, Goosebumps, Beavis and Butthead, Jonny Bravo. The amount of what’s considered “ inappropriate” today was commonplace in the 90’s, and we turned out mostly ok.

[@turnersgauge3430]

Thank you! You said it best: “Not every character is about growth, not every character makes the right decisions, not every character has a happy ending!” *coughs in James Sunderland

[@kitsorcerer]

I can't help but feel like writers underestimate our intelligence. Like we can't differ right from wrong. In order for a character development be complete, we need a starting point

[@DeathKitta]

It became some cursed cicle because audience DOES become dumber and can't understand nuance anymore.

[@sandmaker47]

Its like that meme where a gen z person says Frankenstein is just misunderstood, like that revelation wasn't the entire point of the book. The world isnt perfect, fictional worlds either. You need villains, you need complexities

[@ianesgrecia8568]

"Why do you think the audience is dumb?" Oh darling. It's not the audience that is dumb. Its the writers themselves that are dumb and lack any kind of criativity or actually writing knowloge. And they don't make these stories and shows for people. They make for themselves. That's why it's so dumb.

[@lil_dak_1587]

The audience is also dumb. I work with the general public, and let me tell you, these are the most brain-dead people I have ever seen.

[@izzieb.2926]

That's the thing.......I personally don't think they ARE dumb. There's no way that at least some of them aren't completely aware of what they're doing. There's actually a kind of conspiracy theory that the reason why everyone is so hell-bent on rebooting everything these days despite fans either not asking for it or straight up begging them not to is because they're actively trying to replace the originals in the hopes of influencing future generations so when they think of a certain IP, they'll think of the reboots instead of the originals. And I think whoever came up with this might have been onto something, because these people don't make any money off these reboots, yet they continue to push forward despite any backlash they get. So at this point it's less about genuine stupidity and more about selfishly trying to create a monoculture in their image where everything's in a safe little bubble and there's no understanding of nuance, character development, or anything.

[@izzieb.2926]

That's the thing. I personally don't think they ARE dumb. There's no way that at least some of them aren't completely aware of what they're doing. There's actually a kind of conspiracy theory that the reason why everyone is so hell-bent on rebooting everything these days despite fans either not asking for it or straight up begging them not to is because they're actively trying to replace the originals in the hopes of influencing future generations so when they think of a certain IP, they'll think of the reboots instead of the originals. So it's less about genuine stupidity and more about selfishly trying to create a monoculture in their image where everything's in a safe little bubble and there's no understanding of nuance, character development, or anything. And I think whoever came up with this might have been onto something. It would explain why they would continue to push forward with this garbage even though it is NEVER successful and fans have repeatedly expressed that they hate it. It'd also be why they changed the requirements for movies to be eligible to recieve certain accolades to where it has to meet arbitrary diversity quotas in order for it to be considered, meaning that even classic critically acclaimed movies that won awards in the past wouldn't make the cut today (The Godfather is one example), no matter how deserving it might be.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

@@izzieb.2926 From what I've gather it's less 'conspiracy theory' and more of "actual confirmed thing'. with people getting money to look good like they are 'trying'. Just like there are organizations that give money for companies at least APPEARING to be 'green', the entretainment media and specially Holiwood have organizations, even federal ones, that give them money if they tick the DEI boxes. Disney remakes and live actions also made the CEOs realise that they don't need to spend money on talented writers because they can just mostly bank on nostalgia for them to at least APPEAR that they have people seeing them and just throw insults to the audience in case they don't hit the bare minimum with box office. Because they mostly don't care about box office anymore. They are getting money from behind from said organizations. That's why you will ALWAYS see the buzwords on these media, and why said media will attack other works that even if they ARE diverse, they don't care because it didn't fill their ticks and politics

[@lasercraft32]

There is sadly a portion of the audience that _is_ that dumb. There's unfortunately a pandemic of idiocy in our society these days...

[@terpdx]

My favorite part of Little Red Riding Hood is when the Big Bad Wolf shows up at grandma's house, but Little Red Riding Hood is already there, tells the Big Bad Wolf, "Oh, my. What big misconceptions about feminine intellectuality you have." Then, Little Red Riding Hood and grandma shout in unison, "Girls get it done!", and kill the Big Bad Wolf with the axe they took from the woodcutter.

[@trevorgoodchild8266]

As someone who's been trying to get the same project off the ground for going on six years now I used to be scared to death by these types of critics that compulsively pick apart anything challenging, to hear from someone who echoes my own sentiment is really powerful, of course writers need to be aware of audience boundaries but sometimes so do the audience themselves.

[@michaelbell6894]

It's one of those "thanks, I hate it," kind of things.

[@Magnus-Insomnium13]

Calling Paul from Dune a white savior is such a casual "fan" thing to say. Its literally 20 thousand years into that future everyone is so mixed the concept of race is gone. These ignorant people are so irritating.

[@1TightMinute]

That was a new one. I guess in a way Frodo was a white savior also.

[@Darius-scifieart]

When the story takes place doesn't matter. It was written by a real person who drew themes from other stories. Dune does thematically use the "white savior" trope. What matters is that Dune subverts it. Similar to the Star Trek TOS episode "Errand of Mercy". The trope Isn't really about race either. It's simply the idea of an outsider from a supposedly more civilized culture saving, or civilizing the natives. Most recent uses of the trope are critical of it though. Showing the main character learning more from the indigenous group. Or realizing that the seemingly harmless natives are infact far more advanced. Dances with wolves, the last samurai, Avatar, etc.

[@1TightMinute]

@@Darius-scifieart it would be great if that were true but most of them films people call white savior have nothing to do what that scenerio. It’s really become if the main character is white and any of the supporting cast are minorities and if the main character does anything good then they are a white savior. They call “wildcats” a white savior movie. It’s a dumb bad news bear style movie that has nothing to do with race but she’s white. News flash she coaching a football team so a good portion of her players are black. They end up winning proving a woman can coach…..white savior.

[@Darius-scifieart]

​@@1TightMinute Just because a trope is often incorrectly called out doesn't mean it's not real or not worth talking about. Lots of terms are overused when discussing media. Mary Sue is just as overused. In the case of dune Frank Herbert very clearly used this trope intentionally. The story is literally about colonialism. If people you run into are dumb educate em!

[@1TightMinute]

@@Darius-scifieart okay since You want me to educate people. The trope comes from the poem “white man’s burden” by Rudyard Kipling. In this poem, it basically say that the “white man” is obligated to help all of the world because he is so superior and he is the only one who can do it. The phrase really took off with the western worlds interactions with Africa because many Africans believed that much of the charity like Live Aid they received was done to make the people giving it look better and the second the cameras were turned off no one cares. As far as film goes the term is broadly used to describe the general attitude expressed by the poem not colonization. It is when a white character takes on a grand mission to save minorities (bc like the poem….they are the only ones who can do it). the movie “the help” is the most often used example by everyone, movie critics, CRT professors, Ect…She is not a colonizer. Seriously, just Google articles about white savior complex and read a few. It be great if it was a clean concept related to what you say but it’s not. It’s based off the belief that minorities feel there is a quiet racism in which White people feel they need to save other races. It’s directly reflected in the works of African writers like Teju Cole.

[@TheEmeraldWeirdo]

The reason studios seem to think their audiences are idiots is because what (relatively) few idiots there are tend to be very loud and draw a lot of attention, giving off the impression that the entire audience is like that.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

*_"I was cured all right."_* - A CLOCKWORK ORANGE

[@clementine3418]

100% agree with everything you said. I’d also like to add that this kind of mindset makes things worse for people who have OCD (such as myself). I already struggle with the idea that my intrusive thoughts make me a bad person. Other people confirming that does not help 😂 Also, subscribed! You’re hilarious lol

[@brittanyc.4540]

Creating an interesting story for a film, TV show, video game, or book involves several key elements. Here are some tips to help while crafting a compelling narrative: 1. Start with a captivating concept 2. Develop compelling characters 3. Construct a well-defined plot 4. Establish conflict and tension 5. Craft an immersive world or setting 6. Balance pacing and rhythm 7. Explore universal themes 8. Incorporate visual and sensory elements 9. Maintain unpredictability 10. Pay attention to structure and resolution Remember, storytelling is a creative process, and these tips are meant to serve as guidelines rather than strict rules. Experiment, iterate, and let your imagination run wild to create a truly captivating and unique story. Hollywood should take notes! But the current state of Hollywood is still greedily stubborn. Which is why Indie films, comics and video games are still popular nowadays because writers and illustrators feel creatively free to create whatever they want as long as a story is very intriguing for readers/viewers to gaze upon.

[@Serocco]

Add anime to that too. There's way more creative freedom there.

[@brittanyc.4540]

@@Serocco Yep, anime rules! Thanks!

[@skywolfc2040]

'Now it is a strange thing, but things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a great deal of telling anyway.' -JRR Tolkien, The Hobbit

[@cosmincristani1993]

"I want to be able to feel other experiences" This.

[@horseconfused]

This also happened to Vivziepop, people went psycho on her about her realistic and blunt potrayal of r@pe, s3xual assault and drug abuse with Angel Dust, That is the PERFECT example of what you’re saying. Like you said, depicting a character with bad morals does NOT mean you PROMOTE IT.

[@demonic_myst4503]

The dune part is ironicly why dune got a second book the author wrote dune as a criticism of saviors and charismatic leaders and when he got called out for promoting a cliche white savior” he wrote the second book to elaborate that paul is not actuly a chosen one he is a human being thats flawed and he is no savior he isnt the good guy and his win in the cirst book only causes more harm than good oater on

[@TurokRevolution]

"...so that they promote the correct behavior." I don't know about you but that sounds like the definition of propaganda, because that's exactly what it is.

[@ragingrat7670]

Yes everything they do is black propaganda.

[@fatalroses8116]

Well said and I completely agree. My husband and I rant about this all the time and as one who loves to read and write and explore stories and seek out different experiences, the censorship and sanitation of art in books and films hurts to see.

[@olivergiggins7931]

I think this is partly due to the post-modern idea that all art is a depiction of the artist, which then makes everything a judgement on a real person. But, as you said, that's just not true. Every story needs conflict, and every real person needs less. That's not a contradiction, because they are not the same. If they were, we wouldn't have both. (Also one of the films that broke the Hayes code was Some Like It Hot, and that's just fun.)

[@menacingdonutz]

It drives me crazy that “badness” is being stripped from everything. Yes, bad things suck and bad people suck but the world has always contained and will always contain good AND bad. Bad things will always happen and some people will always be bad, that’s just the way things work and no matter how much we destroy media by trying to remove these bad things it will never change that fact.

[@awsome182]

Another thing is ... Not every villain needs an origin story or an redemption arc. I am so sick and tired of watching origin stories of villains just to find out that they weren't originally bad people but misunderstood/abused/betrayed/etc. Yeah, sometimes it's fitting, especially if it was planned from the beginning of a story to give the villain an origin story. But I'm tired of these later movies like Maleficent and Cruella, etc. I don't want them and need them. Why can't some villains just be evil villains without a tragic backstory? Why do they alwaya want us to feel sorry and understanding for them? Same with forced redemption arcs. Some villains have great redemption arcs, for example Zuko from Avatar - The Last Airbender. It's undeniable that his growth and redemption are considered to be one of the best ever written. Yet they are now talking about giving his sister Azula in the comics a redemption arc. Like ... Why? Why does she need a redemption arc? Why can't she just stay the evil psychotic maniac that she is? She already got some kind of an origin story together with Zuko in the original, but I don't want her to become "good". Why do we need everything and everyone to be so picture perfect in the end?

[@melodysafo5437]

While you make good points, you do realize that nobody is born a villain. Nobody starts out like that, but the environment that they’re in makes them a villain. There has to be a reason why they turned out like that. Nobody just comes out of the womb being a villain. Somebody or someone makes them a villain.

[@awsome182]

@@melodysafo5437 this is true, what I mean is that in many cases I simply don't care why the villain is the villain. I don't need an origin story to understand the depth behind the villain. And I don't want valuable screen/story time wasted on an origin story instead of giving the main characters the depth they need and deserve. There are books/movies/etc in which an origin story is perfectly fine and fits. But I don't want them as an afterthought.

[@blueberryjacket]

You're right with all of those points except Azula, because originally, the writers were planning to add Azula's redemption arc when they get another season for ATLA. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, so they decided to add it in the ATLA comics instead. What her redemption arc would look like, I don't know. But it doesn't look like it's being rushed to oblivion.

[@awsome182]

@@blueberryjacket okay, then maybe it's just my personal preference that I don't want Azula to have a redemption arc^^ I liked her backstory, how it explained how she became the psychotic evil villain that she was, her insecurity and the perceived unrequited love from her mother. But I personally simply would prefer for her to stay evil 🤷🏻‍♀️😃

[@GhostGuy99]

I'm a firm believer that there's a difference in making a villain understandable and making a villain justified. There's a difference in giving Cletus Cassidy a backstory as to how he turned out so murder happy and let us understand his situation... ...and trying to justify everything the Joker does in all of his appearances.

[@jasonmcgregor123]

Wow. You hit the nail on the head with this one. I completely agree. That's why everything kinda sucks these days. It's all become too predictable. Too much micromanagement.

[@28starwarsfan]

I still remember all the pushback leading up to The Joker coming out. So many people were so sure it'd take some fans too far and they'd be inspired to do something bad, like a shooting or an un-aliving.

[@MRPandoraHartDR]

It has happened though. There was a guy in Japan who dressed as the classic purple suited Joker to carry out his attack on a train carriage. And before him, don't forget the Holmes guy who carried out the shooting in theatre showing The Dark Knight. Although he dyed his hair red not green 'to be' the Joker.

[@Zelldic27]

​@@MRPandoraHartDRtbh i still dont know if that was supposed to be Joker or Yoshigaki Kira from jojo.

[@trustmeits610pm2]

@@MRPandoraHartDR If you went out and told someone to jump off a building and then they do it, are you to blame? No. You are not. That person made their own decision. They have free will. They are not a puppet that you controlled with your voice.

[@MrTerrorFace]

I'm amazed the Scott Pilgrim franchise has managed to be so consistent. Seriously, the Scott Pilgrim anime didn't have to pop off the way it did. There are so many sequels and reboots based on films that came out in 2010, and Scott Pilgrim Takes Off manages to be such a gold standard in terms of writing, animation, and needle drops.

[@TheEffectOfMass]

Nailed every point! I think a big part of the reason why people have largely been pushing back on these stories is because of what you said. They want us to watch the movies with the "right" message, so we behave the "correct" way. It's a type of brainwashing. Don't tell us what to like, just make entertainment, not a correct "message." Great rant!

[@InfernalHart]

This is a perfect rant. I've personally been internalizing a lot of this overall disdain with media in the last 10ish years. We need to normalize the phrase "Depicting is NOT promoting"

[@jasongretencord3326]

This reminds me of when I was in second grade and enjoyed Married with Children. Even as an 8 year old, I got the feeling that Al and Peggy were not to be emulated.

[@Albtraum_TDDC]

Wait what? Why no one told me that? Got to tell my wife...

[@robchuk4136]

This video just got better and better as it went! The Sokka sexism thing does make me lose hope that characters can have disagreeable flaws. You rock for calling out what has become of Harley Quinn, you became my hero for the media literacy remarks about 13 Reasons Why, and you became a legend for comparing what's happening in storytelling right now to something akin the the Haze Code. It all feels so true, so where's the lie? Subscribed

[@osmanyousif7849]

Changing his character would be like Disney trying to remake Emperor's New Groove to make Kuzco more "likable", not understanding that he's suppose to be a d**k. Dear Heavens, if they remake that movie, Imma...

[@sarahsuze7742]

Wait so you're saying people don't enjoy blatant propoganda and being told what to think?

[@This-is-a-commentt]

Yes and no/j

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

It's funny because you are one of the most propagandized people on earth and love it when Fox News abd other right wing media tells you what to think.

[@kengwallgmail]

Well that’s demonstrably not true. People love being told they’re right. 🤷‍♂️

[@MALICEM12]

Not so long as they can tell it's propaganda. But the West has been socially engineering it's population for generations. An old joke, a KGB and CIA agent are talking at the bar. "Wow, you boys sure do a great job!" Said the CIA. "Your propaganda is so good it's hard to tell it's propaganda!" "No, no." Said the KGB "our propaganda doesn't compare to yours. Yours is far more convincing, people actually believe it!" The CIA agent then frowns and says in confusion, "what are you talking about? We don't have any propaganda!"

[@TheMeetymeet]

The lack of risk taking has also been thrown out the window, too. The amount of media that plays it "too safe" will never know how much they're willing to venture towards ideas that can give people the entertainment that may make them want to look at it over and over again. The term for that is "rewatchability" and it hardly ever comes up for how the Western media tries to avoid "offending" others.

[@kylespevak6781]

7:38 Apparently the modern trend is to relate to media and be obsessed with your identity, which is formed from your media instead of yourself

[@nagisafurukawa2083]

That’s why I most watch anime now, because they use those bad things as part of the story, there some anime to this day that use it as a story beat, the biggest example is Mushoku Tensei, the Mc starts as Very flawed character and throughout the story changes as a result, it’s a story I recommend for amazing characters development

[@AC-dk4fp]

Mushoku Tensei took about 10 years to be adapted and is based of a book that has been heavily ripped off and dumbed down by lesser Japanese authors. Japanese studios adapt good existing material or remix older plots into new characters they don't do the brand management garbage that only exists to keep IP holders happy that Americans call adaptations. There's still good American media don't fetishise Japan they make trash in large amounts as well. The only reason the Japanese animation industry can support itself is that their native Fanbase is willing to spend 5 times the amount on a DVD as an American would be prepared to and they don't shame consumerism while lionising big business in the way people from protestant countries do. If Americans were willing to spend a 100$ a DVD the American indie film industry would be just as creative as Japanese animation its all down to money. But the American psyche wants everything to be cheap unless its to distract the unwanted children the war machine told them to breed so all you get is cotton candy garbage that gets vomited back up anyway.

[@TheJadedJames]

The thing about the depiction versus endorsement debate that gets me is that we are constantly seeing "problematic" stuff being changed in adaptations, original material is still allowed to do similar storylines. Sokka in ATLA can no longer have a storyline about unlearning sexism, but just a few months ago, the Barbie movie had a far more overt storyline about patriarchy than ATLA ever had. If modern audiences can handle the Barbie movie, they can handle the original Kyoshi Warriors episode. Joe Goldberg is the protagonist of a contemporary Netflix drama that we all enjoy and we can realize that he's not a good person. But if YOU were a show that originally came out in 2005 instead of 2018, there would be discourse about whether or not you could depict that material today. Remember Chilling Adventures of Sabrina? Cowboy Bebop/Avatar The Last Airbender also demonstrates that Netflix's writing teams have no idea what changing these storylines entail. Changing major parts of a character's personality sends ripple effects through the entire story that they simply aren't prepared to deal with. Even the original opening scene of ATLA is damaged by the sexism thing because that forced Sokka/Katara to have to have a completely different argument which does a worse job of characterizing them both than the original one. You can't just paste over this stuff and declare the story no longer problematic.

[@camrondavis5535]

MAN that was cathartic.

[@mythman30]

The most insane thing about the avatar changes is that they also tried to make the show edgier and more dramatic by like burning people alive and stuff, but sokka cant be sexist and they’re removing the whole dai lee storyline cause “it feels too gaslighty”

[@TrueMattuku]

The greatest thing about the story is that it can depict a complex story that has a conclusive ending. Not one where every character lives, the heroes simply talk their way out, and everyone has their happy ending, but the perfect clash of every ideology from each character causing every piece of the puzzle to slide into place as it does. It’s an ending that holds victory, defeat, and a sense of unknown as you don’t know what will happen next to your favorite characters, but it is also one you feel a warm sensation towards. Because you know this was the ending of that was reached, and you can know that it was the consequence of everything everyone had done before

[@ceinwenchandler4716]

1:50 Yeah... without Sokka's sexism, how _does_ Aang get out of the iceberg?

[@quandal1633]

*ASSPULL DEUS EX MACHINA GO*

[@grantpowell8957]

Thank you so much for talking about the Dune movies. Frank Herbert was a political speech writer before he was a writer and Paul was meant to be a failed leader who purposely manipulated the Fremen because he knew the prophecies and how to fulfill them. He does eventually choose the right thing, but too late and that’s the reason I love him. I’m hoping the 3rd movie finally touches on this. I also see this a lot with Deadpool too. I’m not a fan of comedic Deadpool. I just find it annoying, but Rick Remender’s Uncanny X-Force showed me why people liked Deadpool. He isn’t comedic relief, he’s the heart. He believes in his team and their moral compass. He picks them up and takes care of them and that’s why I love him. Often when people make him the comedic relief, they remove his heart so that he can be dark and random.

[@StNerevar76]

You need to reread the book if that's what you think of Paul.

[@ianesgrecia8568]

"i'm gonna go on a rant" Oh boy. This is going to be good. Hold until my popcorn

[@OwO377]

Better story than mediocre media tv series.

[@shonen_x_trash2488]

Great rant. "Depicting is not premoting" is a very simple statement that gets across a lot. I think that simple principle has had a lot of knock on effects. I spend a lot of time thinking about those hatable knock on effects.

[@catscrath25alpha83]

If things don’t violently swing in the other direction (which is usually what happens with stuff like this) I could see the stories of the future being along the lines of “Once there was a perfect world where no one had any problems ever and everyone was perfect to whatever your world view is. The end.”

[@chunkysaurus785]

Bro was preaching for over 16 minutes

[@haterodiadordeplantao.680]

speaking factssssss

[@chunkysaurus785]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 I’m complimenting her

[@JTheBeastMcneil]

I’m gonna be honest, I’ve always been that one person who hated having his perspective challenged, especially on the topic of morality. Comic book superheroes have gradually shifted my opinion, I’m still very orthodox Catholic but I can consume / create stories without having to become them. Without challenging stories I would not enjoy the infinity saga, Arkhamverse, or any of the other superhero stories I love. Thank you for being part of my still shifting perspective.

[@BuizelCream]

I just wanna say congrats for continuing to challenge your perspectives that way. As someone who too came from a strict Catholic and cultish Christian background who had peers and family members that demonizes everything, it heavily reflected the kind of entertainment I allowed myself to enjoy growing up because I got emotionally offended a lot. But I was a far decent human being when I simply refused to watch/read heavier fiction till I got older instead of you know, attacking creators to dilute their creative masterpieces or whatever. Nowadays, I adore mature audiences who have learned to see the beauty behind any depictions of brutality with having the mental skills to unpack these perspectives properly.

[@JTheBeastMcneil]

@@BuizelCream I’m still catholic . I just have a better understanding that not everyone has the black and white mentality I do. While I will still be guided by moral values, I can still consume media as long as it is not distasteful in its writing. Hope that makes sense.

[@JTheBeastMcneil]

@@Evan-k . Thanks.

[@JTheBeastMcneil]

@@Evan-k Probably not but I sleep easier at night with the hope my recently deceased mom is in Heaven. If that makes me a cultist by your standards fine but I am a proud catholic.

[@JTheBeastMcneil]

@@Evan-k My friend, I’m going to make this very clear. I honestly don’t care what you think about my faith . I know it is the truth. My only concern is if this is how you address everyone who has a different belief then you, if so I would be cautious about addressing people that way. Regardless I hope you have a blessed day and may God bless you.

[@patrickkanas3874]

So we can't have bad guys be bad because it upsets people? You're supposed to be upset by what they say and do. That's why they're called villains.

[@arnowisp6244]

Exactly. They are Villains. Writer like to write Villains because they can make them do Horrible things.

[@New3DSLuigi364]

Because there are TOO Many Real Life Villains out in our world; WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE SAME REAL LIFE DEPREVITY IN OUR FICTIONAL MEDIA; THAT WE HEAR ABOUT ON THE TV NEWS!!

[@darrenbent7601]

I 100% agree with you. There cannot be heroes without villains. Batman needs Joker, Superman needs Lex Luthor, Optimus Prime needs Megatron, He-Man needs Skeletor, the Joes need Cobra Commander...etc. And, the idea that negative traits cannot be shown is ridiculous. How can you have narrative without growth? If everyone is perfect from the start to the end, where's the progress, where's the story? No wonder most modern media is dry and derivative. They no longer have soul left in most modern media.

[@shannonmcelroy8454]

That's another thing I've just noticed is responsible for how lost the art of storytelling is now. When nothing of serious consequence is happening, it can make the viewer question why it's worth investigating if nothing bad could happen at all.