Rebuilding a Brass Steam Whistle Valve

[@rebelyank6361]

Keith is like the guy I always wanted to have around a shop. Go home with some random problem. Come in the next day and it's mysteriously fixed lol. The musrum doesn't know what a treasure it has there!

[@BeachsideHank]

Valve packing: yeah, as a kid in the Navy, Black Gang, we had hundreds of valves down below in the fireroom that always needed repacking. The Navy had a wine corkscrew thing that was issued for the purpose of laboriously pulling those segments out. We snipes had a better method though; making sure the chief was having his coffee back in the Goat Locker, we'd back off on the gland nut or retainer and cut in the steam to the offending valve- you had to take cover though, it was like a fragmentation grenade going off in the space but for a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds, it was lemonade from lemons to us. ☺

[@surlyogre1476]

In view of Veteran's Day coming up this weekend... Thank you for your service, Sir (or Mister, or Chief). "Sailor" that's the word I was looking for! Thank you for your service, Sailor!

[@steveskouson9620]

Even an Army PUKE like me, knows about the "goat locker!" (Too much Tom Clancy.) The 11th is Veterans day. Best wishes to ALL you Veterans. I have an appointment, the 12th, at my local VA clinic. The SE Phoenix clinic is VASTLY better than the Phoenix VA hospital. (The one that made all the BAD news!) All you Vets, THANK YOU!! Always! steve

[@gottfriedschuss5999]

Hi Keith, Another great video! Couple plumber's tricks. When I start putting some serious "gronk" (thanks Tom, love that term of art!) on a valve body or other fitting using a long wrench, I like to put a pipe nipple in the body / fitting before tightening in the vise. It provides just a bit of insurance against "ovalizing" the thread in the fitting. Second, a little Teflon pipe dope on the machined face of the spring retainer cap can help prevent leaks. No need for dope on the threads. Just on the machined mating surfaces. This trick can also be used on mechanical joint unions. I have to laugh when I see pipe dope on the threads of the nut in a mechanical union! Thanks & Best regards, Gottfried

[@craigtreleaven7560]

No pipe dope on threads? I used to help my Dad work on a small boiler (20 HP?). Stuff came apart OK if we'd previously used dope on the threads. If not, we were in for an 'adventure'. Something about the steam seemed to lock the threaded surfaces together unless there was a coating of dope. Yes, the water was conditioned.

[@gottfriedschuss5999]

Anthony Ruddy, I totally agree. Something solid like a plug would be best. A nipple really reinforces the body / fitting a great deal, but nowhere near as much as a plug. In the end, I suppose it depends on the degree of gronk, mine or the gorilla down the street. 😎

[@gottfriedschuss5999]

Craig, Regarding your comment, "In for an 'adventure'": You're correct. Although, 'adventure' almost makes it sound like something fun! 😎 As you probably know, that is part of the reason steam fittings are cast iron. A couple blows with a sledge hammer and a backing hammer on the opposite side of the fitting and one can break the fitting into pieces to remove. Steam has a habit of "welding" fittings / pipe together. The longer the exposure to steam, the better the weld! I apologize if I wasn't clear in my comment above. Typically, there is no need for pipe dope on mechanical threads, such as the nut on the back of the steam whistle valve or on the nut on a mechanical union. Sometimes, a little pipe dope on the machined, tapered / hemispherical (e.g., on a mechanical union) mating surfaces can prevent a leak there. ABSOLUTELY, use pipe dope / tape on pipe threads. To be precise, pipe threads taper, mechanical threads don't. If I have need for SERIOUS gronk on mechanical threads, I will apply some anti-seize compound there. Pipe dope will work in a pinch, but anti-seize is much better in that application. Thanks & Best regards, Gottfried

[@jonka1]

I agree about risking the valve body. He could just have gripped it square on the open ends of the hexes. I think he had given it some slight thought because the last time he tightened it he seemed to be holding back even though he had not tried a better way.

[@jonka1]

@@AJR2208 I assume you are referring to something to screw in for support. I'm not sure how that relates to my suggestion of a different method of holding the valve that does not involve anything screwed into it.

[@billmorris2613]

I sure have enjoyed another machining video by Keith!!!

[@geckoproductions4128]

Keith: you're the one who got me interested in steam. I'm happy to report that I took my 4yr grandson down to Hondo Texas to see Union Pacific's Big Boy engine No. 4014 last Friday. That will probably be the last time either of us will see a fully functional steam locomotive running on an active railroad main line. And WOW, what an impressive steam engine! Thank you so much for sharing what you do for the museum and other steam projects. I loved this video and unusual valve. The only suggestion I would make is to let us see a brief clip o the repaired part in use.

[@steveskouson9620]

4014 IS an amazing machine. Before Ed and the guys rebuilt her (him?) (S)he last ran when I was almost 1 year old. I DO want to see the Big Boy run! You are right, Keith doesn't do enough videos from the museum. (Love to see that little Vulcan run again.) (Oh, is the Big Boy a boy or a girl? Usually we Mechanics call our projects, with a female name. The Big Boys may be an exception. I'm just glad 4014 is smoking down the tracks. Can't wait to see 4014 in Mesa Az!) steve

[@mdouglaswray]

Nice to see such care given to such a simple valve. Buy it new, wear it out, make it do and do without! Love your work Keith!

[@LightAndSportyGuy]

That 1850's vintage Teflon machined nicely. :-)

[@carlthor91]

Nice valve seat cutter. Cheers

[@billmorris2613]

Good Afternoon from St John Parish, Louisiana 14 Dec 20.

[@gasparini76]

Nice attitude Keith. Top job!

[@bcbloc02]

Making an adapter plug to use compressed air to test for leaks when doing these jobs could save lots of tinkering time and any call backs. :-)

[@shellyshirk9947]

Ppppx. Ax was C’s saw xx cup Ccp p

[@brainsironically]

Never seen one of those Valve Cutting set, pretty slick! Nice vid, as always. Thanks for putting it up.

[@davidwright640]

My grandfather was a machinist at the cotton mill in Geneva, Alabama back in the 40's and 50's. The steam whistle would wake the entire town early every morning.

[@donaldnaymon3270]

Thank you. Great work

[@homeryoung7436]

Thanks Keith

[@kevinreardon2558]

Its good to see that slight difference between preservation of an artifact and the preservation of a working artifact. Thanks.

[@richardmattingly7000]

Kudos on the dressing the valve seat and using a Scotchbrite pad because others might of made more work for themselves by being more agressive than what was required. Those fretting about crushing the fitting in the vise needn't worry to much since this isn't your first rodeo but it would of been instructive to have shown viewers why a nipple is often a precaution. Over torquing can ruin about anything not just the part that's being worked on and it's a learning curve that is often not taught but would be a nice video for novices.

[@jimkaipanen6577]

I found out that installing a nippel in the valve when clamping in a vice ,with brass you could collapse it out of round good rebuild job .

[@PeterWMeek]

That was concerning me as well.

[@jonka1]

Yes I cringed at that too. Poor workshop practice

[@keithpeverill8521]

That Wilton is holding up nicely.

[@ShevillMathers]

We call that a ‘split’ pin, a cotter pin which is a single pin, usually larger, often found on bicycle pedals and many others units. 🇦🇺🇬🇧

[@jeffschira9685]

Split pins are a type of cotter pin. www.mcmaster.com/hairpin-cotter-pins

[@jonka1]

@@jeffschira9685 All depends on what part of the world you live in.

[@ccrider5398]

I'd like to see (and hear!) the valve in action on the 'gin.

[@andywithers592]

A tool for every job! Nice little project

[@jimad]

Fascinating! Thanks especially for the details on the valve repair kit - I'd never seen one of those.

[@charlescompton4495]

Good save but yes, I'd love to have seen a before and after snip. We'll have to take your word for it; thanks Keith, Greg.

[@paulcopeland9035]

Take his word for it? Why would he be working on it if it didn't need it?

[@charlescompton4495]

@@paulcopeland9035 Yep, but a lot of folks like to see what a craftsman repairs before and after. I realize Keith doesn't have enough time to do that sometimes. I most certainly take his word for it seeing the shape the valve was in before and now after, Greg.

[@ski4jeepin]

I wish I had just 1/16 the knowledge you do! My father-in-law was a machinist and I tried to get him to teach me his trade before he passed away. Sadly that didn't happen. I'm GOING to learn as much as I can from you and other KZbin machinists! This is knowledge that must be passed along! Thank you for allowing me and others to learn from you!

[@fredohnemus7685]

Was down in Atlanta two weeks ago visiting a niece and her husband. Took a drive one day where they like to ride their motor cycles. Went past your place I'm fairly sure because the building I saw looked just like the one you had built for your machine shop. I'm just not quite sure though. This building had a cupola that I don't remember seeing on any of the videos. I'll go back and check some videos when it was being built.

[@20mcarroll02]

How's the stoker engine rebuild going?

[@andrewbailey1057]

Keith, it looks like your vice marred up the casting. You should use plastic or smooth vice jaws. Just a thought...

[@barkleyburker7849]

sweet nice work thanks for the video

[@kerrygleeson4409]

Great work Keith 👍🇦🇺🚜

[@JustJimWillDo]

Good little project. Shame we didn't get a 'toot toot' at the end though. ;)

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing. Watched and enjoyed.

[@phlodel]

A mechanic I worked with many years ago always called those split pins "carter pins" He said that cart makers used them to hold the wheels on carts. A company by the name of Cotter made a lot of carter pins and people started calling them cotter pins. I saw a painting from the 16th century that had a cart in it.Lo and behold, the cart had a big split pin holding the wheel on. A carter pin.

[@millwrightrick1]

It has been a few months since I had to rebuild a steam valve. I don't miss it at all. Steam is just about the nastiest stuff to work with.

[@royreynolds108]

Steam will cut glass.

[@Jim-ie6uf]

Now they can toot your horn! Great video and tool demo

[@plumberguy1689]

Great video! Quick tip, how you are holding the valve in the vise could oblong, or crack the valve. To prevent this install a pipe plug or nipple to add support

[@jonka1]

He's not listening.

[@holder350]

Keith, looks like the way the valve is designed, the pressure could overpower the spring and cause the valve to leak. I would think it would be installed that way to act as a kind of safety relief, pressure builds over a certain point and the valve bypasses and blows the whistle. I have very limited experience with steam powered equipment however, so I may be way off base here.

[@jonka1]

Look again,, the steam is live on the spring side of the valve so keeps it shut, otherwise you would have a very low pressure blow--off valve.

[@holder350]

@@jonka1 I don't think so..... At 8:48 it plainly shows the steam direction come in on the stem side of the valve, which is opposite the spring side. Tells me that this is exactly the reason the valve was leaking by badly.

[@jonka1]

@@holder350 If you look again Keith is very confused as he tries and fails to explain the working of the valve. During his efforts he stumbles over his words and at first has the live steam under the valve,then suddenly he has the steam pressing on the top of the valve thus holding it shut. Listen to his words and watch his hands @9:20 as his tiny mind tries to make sense of his own confusion. I would be ashamed to be party to such a lack of clarity over such a simple device. He has mis--led you and , judging by the comments below, many viewers are also confused and have the thing working backwards. In reality this valve can be fitted either way but would be fully open under steam pressure if fitted so as to have live steam Under the valve. The reason the valve was leaking was due to erosion which is a common problem with steam.

[@holder350]

@@jonka1 I must be missing something then, because the arrow on the valve is definitely got the flow direction coming into the valve on the operating rod side, which is opposite the spring side. Looking at it again (several times) I almost think this valve isn't a steam valve, but a type of drain/refill valve for low pressure.

[@jonka1]

@@holder350 Yes the arrow does indicate the direction required to lift the valve. I have seen a lot of valves with arrows cast into their metal but valves can be mounted either way depending on the intended use. Given the light pressure exerted by the spring divided by the area of the valve seat I'm expecting that valve to be lifted fully open at a very low steam pressure which if mounted as per the arrow would have the whistle blowing at full blast with no control from the lever. The only way this valve can control a whistle with its lever is for the live steam to be admitted in the reverse direction which fact has entirely escaped Keith's attention.

[@TheTomBevis]

I'm not sure, not being able to look at that valve closely, but it looked like the pull lever needed to be turned 180 degrees and the valve be installed that way. The pressure should be with the spring pressure, I think. It looked like the pressure would be pushing against the spring. Could that have been a cause of the failure?

[@alanfarenden9378]

No, spring AND steam pressure hold the seat in place. The lever has to overcome BOTH stem and spring to open .

[@jonka1]

@@alanfarenden9378 Yes. It's remarkable just how many viewers can't work out the operation of this valve.

[@wiwtfab]

Ah Keith, I knew when you tightened that gland nut that it was going to stick. Assemble the actuator, then adjust the gland while operating the valve.

[@jonka1]

I agree but he won't reply or try to understand.

[@dscott1524]

What happened with the stoker engine restoration?

[@TheTkiller9999]

Keith, Comment on the seat reamer.... the expandable jaws on that reamer... can't they be reversed like the Jaws on a Lathe? the one I used with my grandfather were able to do so... and then they would have gripped on the treads on the outside... oh forgot to say my grandfather was a master plumber ... was at Perl Harbor right after the bombing December 9th I believe and helped clean up the mess...

[@liteconduit]

Keith, I’ve enjoyed several of your videos and recommended them to friends. I am restoring a Star Brass Five Chime whistle and an 1 1/2” steam Crane lever valve that are both missing the return springs. I can measure the approximate diameter where they nest. Can you recommend a spring supplier or other info source for this old equipment? Thanks

[@tedsykora1858]

Sticking may be caused by over compressing the packing?

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Yes he first tightened way to tight...l am like you l saw that to...!

[@tedsykora1858]

@@steveshoemaker6347 The only way to know would be to tighten while under pressure and it did help to have a polished stem.

[@BruceBoschek]

Good job. I'm a bit surprised you didn't test it with compressed air. Most times I have reseated a valve like that it didn't 100% seal the first time and I had to redo it. Hope you let us know if it was a success.

[@jhbonarius]

16:10 Keith! What are you doing? Tighten that wrench, or you'll damage/strip the nut. Nice job on the whole though :)

[@Petrochemtester]

Beating on and bending what appears to be cast brass? Loose crescent wrench, no vise soft jaws, no pressure test?

[@jonka1]

Yes I agree completly. Don't forget overtightening the gland nut and then pretending he hadn't. That's a lot of schoolboy errors in one small job.He's not as good as he wants us all to think.

[@bencartee2113]

Now if I was doing this, I would tell my wife I needed to buy a steam engine and boiler to properly test it...never let a fixit go to waste...

[@bobvines00]

I'd tell my wife the same thing. I need them to power my 1911 South Bend lathe too.

[@TheStefanskoglund1]

@@bobvines00 At least a safety pressure valve is tested (with regards to blow off pressure) tested with air. The blowing off and shutting action can't really be tested in the same way due to air's lower density and speed which it passes thru the valve. Wet steam is different. With a safety valve you want a distinct opening, blow of 0,5 bar (or about 9 psi) and a distinct closing.

[@steveskouson9620]

Any excuse for a boiler and engine. I would SERIOUSLY like to build a few model (Stuart) steam engines, and a large-ish boiler. The Stuart Beam Major is looking quite good! A walking beam engine? YES! Keith Rucker doesn't have one, but Keith Appleton does. (Look him up.) steve

[@christophernewton2579]

Wonder Why you didn't use some lapping compound to seat the spring coverr

[@jonka1]

The reason the push rod is sticking is that you have hopelessly overtightened the gland nut. Instead of questioning yourself you try polishing a rod that was working perfectly. Then @20:17 you have obviously thought about it off camera and this time you set the packing gland correctly. Hey Presto it works!! Keith why do you not explain this to your less exerienced viewers so that they might learn something? Oh maybe you just can't cope with looking like you didn't know what you were doing when you first assembled the valve.

[@kevinmartin7760]

What's the purpose of that little feature on the stem? I'm wondering if that somehow relates to the need for the spacer under the base of the yoke, which would be compensating for the stem being too long. It could also be compensating for a too-large repair on the end of the lever though.

[@componenx]

That valve cutter is interesting; why so many faces? Seems to me that it would chatter and be difficult to sharpen. I guess just seeing parallel faces like that is a bit odd.

[@premierd8988]

Yet another half done that'll do job Keith .. at least you might have cleaned the whole valve ... shows a pro attitude .....

[@tonydeleo3642]

Hi Keith, great video, good timing, I have to reseat my steam whistle valve. On using an adjustable "Crescent" wrench, which way should you put it on the nut, I have heard both ways/

[@jonka1]

The correct way is to have it adjusted properly. So it's no use asking Keith.

[@dhaynes4515]

Thanks and keep up the good work. Did you have to rotate the actuator handle 180 degrees?

[@etheroar6312]

I caught that too.

[@royreynolds108]

If Kieth didn't, they needed to at the museum.

[@jonka1]

No he didn't have to but he admitted that he didn't know which way it went back on. Presumably it wasn't worth thinking through.

[@glennmoreland6457]

Another way to have refreshed that taper would've been to just simply lap it in with some valve grinding paste... You could've done this by hand with a lapping stick..or on a drill press...🇬🇧👍

[@jonka1]

Yes I agree and it would have been a professional fix.

[@mayoropl1]

So this valve works as an overload relief valve too? And it will release all steam if that spring broken?

[@peterhaan9068]

I'm guessing here that since they aren't using the pressure of the steam to hold the valve shut, that valve will also act as a pressure relief valve.

[@TheStefanskoglund1]

No i don't think so. I would expect this valve to be mounted on a manifold with a shut off valve. You cant service it if not. Depending on boiler i don't this valve has an big enough diameter A safety valve which can be accepted by the inspector could be required to be able to put inspection seals on it.

[@jonka1]

The live steam is holding the valve onto its seat.

[@bmlennox]

keith-how do you have time for all these projects, video editing , travel to many youtube events as well as holding down a full time job? You wife must be very gracious (Proverbs 31 wife)

[@aangelbf2]

Can you test the valve with compressed air?

[@TheStefanskoglund1]

He should be able to .

[@ypop417]

So that valve can also work as a relief valve.

[@markowen7164]

You have. I mean in America. Amazing tools. In the UK. We don't have all that stuff. M

[@trihonu4686]

Keith, are the jaws on your valve seat tool reverseable? If so, you may have been able to grip the outside threads.

[@pmccarthy4427]

That’s what I thought

[@j-man72b72]

Keith, any plans for the steam whistle in the back corner on the bench behind you?

[@timothyball3144]

Give that valve to "My Mechanics" and be amazed at what comes back. "I make new one".

[@SciPunk215]

I love these videos!! Now I have two questions: 1) Why does a cotton gin need a whistle? 2) How old could this valve possibly be if it has a plastic or Teflon seal?

[@johnmccallum8512]

...and if it is from the 50's it most likely is made from Polythene.

[@jonka1]

@@johnmccallum8512 Polythene melts at the temperature of pressurised steam. My money is on ptfe.

[@steamstuff]

i was told by a very smart whistle guy that whistle valve does not have a packing gland on valve stem. that quick release valves do. as long as it works who cares

[@imagineaworld]

What are the shelves in the valve for?

[@surlyogre1476]

They divide the valve body into inlet and outlet halves. Without them it's not a valve at all, just a short piece of pipe.

[@imagineaworld]

@@surlyogre1476 wouldnt it still be a valve with the mechanism still active? What do the shelves have to do with the mechanism of the valve? Thanks for any info in advance!

[@surlyogre1476]

@@imagineaworld Okay, I can't draw a picture, here, but I will do my best to explain. (I think your question is a valid one, other viewers may be wondering the same thing). So, here goes: The steam comes UP the inlet pipe and enters the valve body from the bottom. The lower shelf directs the steam to one side (we'll call it the *left* side (arbitrarily)) where it then runs into the upper shelf. As long as the valve is closed, that's as far as it can go, because the shelves are connected by the valve-seat wall. (The valve operates in a direction perpendicular to the valve body, and amounts to a hole in a wall that can be opened or closed.) When the operator opens the valve, the steam can then make a right-angle turn through the hole (the valve proper) and transition from the left side (inlet) to the right side (outlet) of the valve body then another right-angle turn to continue up out of the valve body into more pipe, on its way to do its job. I hope this helps.

[@hodgepodgeenginerd1258]

How old was that valve refacing tool?

[@thecatsupdog]

DIdn't know they had teflon valves in the old days.

[@etheroar6312]

I've worked on valves of a similar age, and they used a hard rubber material that got harder with age. It would flake and chip and was hard to face. In the late 60s I worked in a factory and machined Teflon for valve inserts. It machined a lot like Delrin. This insert could have been done quite a while ago.

[@kdel9776]

your such a smart guy but a basic packing nut set to tight has got you backing up

[@KoJo-qh9od]

I'm surprised you didn't buff the exterior.

[@surlyogre1476]

...and destroy the *patina* ?

[@KoJo-qh9od]

@@surlyogre1476 Keith said with his own words it was a restoration. In nearly all of his restorations he refinishes all of the parts. I doubt polishing the old brass whistle would damage the value.

[@surlyogre1476]

@@KoJo-qh9od Oops, you must have missed the sarc-mark. ;-)

[@W0mpa]

I thought cotton gin was an actual gin.. Sounded like it would taste good.

[@ick5353]

Thank you for another great video! Quick question - (caveat - I know nothing about this topic) is there a reason for not adding any sort of lubrication (like light machine oil) to the valve stem to make it move easier after you polished it with the scotch brite?

[@etheroar6312]

The steam will blow it away in short order.

[@ick5353]

Ether Oar thanks... makes sense

[@TheStefanskoglund1]

What is used for helping the packing material is graphite grease

[@jonka1]

@@etheroar6312 Lovely use of words.

[@douglaspierce316]

cant believe you forgot to polish that

[@surlyogre1476]

Wouldn't want to lose the patina, now, would we. What would the folks at Antiques Roadshow say about that?

[@ImpHalla66]

I cringed a bit seeing those vise marks on the part. A little Brasso would have made that look real good.

[@markowen7164]

You should have polished it to within a mm of it's life. M

[@lion1746]

много болтовни и мало дела.

[@samueltaylor4989]

You have managed to a machining video and leave out 90% of the machine work!

[@paulcopeland9035]

What "machine work" did you miss? He showed everything he did.

[@samueltaylor4989]

Are you kidding? No indicating casting, couldn’t see the seat and how it was cleaning up, did the spring cap and seat off camera, cleaned up the shaft off camera. The only machining we actually saw was him cutting the Teflon/plastic seal. Don’t get me wrong; I love Keith and his videos but just praising him gives fake feedback.

[@jonka1]

@@samueltaylor4989 I suspect the reason we weren't shown the valve seat cutting is we couldn't notice any runout in the way he'd mounted it.

[@peebee143]

Could have done with a pinch of graphite powder down that gland packing for the operating rod. Would have eased its working through the packing.

[@jonka1]

Yes I thought that. I wonder if Keith knows this.