REC BMS: An Overview & the Setup

[@BillCarlson]

How you only have 2.1k subs blows my mind. Your videos are great - I'm always excited when one pops up - keep it up. :)

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you for the kind words Bill. We thought 2.1K was pretty great :). When KZbin announced it was going to set new limits for the partner program we were pretty sure we were not going to make it :) - but then the channel grew really quickly. We really enjoy making the videos so it has been really fun to connect with like-minded people. Thanks for following along!

[@steveschannel961]

I agree with Bill Carlson. It really is exciting when there's a notification for a new video. You're doing a great job and presenting everyting in an intelligent clear manner. Keep it up, can't wait for the next installment!

[@wearemilesfromnowhere4630]

Dilly dilly! Yes, to more subs. One reason I think Juan has not gone vertical is that he does not hype his approach with blanket statements that tend to get first timers in trouble. These videos are presented in a linear fashion with the assumption that viewers have some understanding of the general terminologies he speaks about. This tends to confuse people who do not understand how to use a volt meter. BTW I agree about working with REC, they are great. Two thumbs up Juan!

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you! Did you guys go with REC?

[@wearemilesfromnowhere4630]

Beginning from this Morning Hey Juan, we are narrowing down the accessories now. The first system is a 12 volt for a friend. The second is the 48v much like yours and if you recall, I have the same leaf pack. Each step I take, the 48volt system is looking so mich better than a 12 or 24, right down to the dedicated alternator. Looking good Mr Guapo! lol

[@lkazanov]

Very late to the party with this video, but excellent. And thank you for posting. I’ve come across this BMS because it has also the ability to speak with wake speed 500 alternator controller. This is a critical function for a second alternator set up for life. Especially for 48 V systems. So not only does it speak Victron, but it also speaks wake speed.

[@xavierpendrag0n]

"Boss, da plane, da plane!" Great edit in. Enjoying the content.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you Travis - we live very near a small airport and it's almost impossible some days to get a clean take with no airplane noises :). Thank for tuning in

[@gordontamplin2905]

I love your videos, I love the fact that everything you lnstall is top shelf! I love Victron products. Haven’t failed me yet in two years of hard use. Keep up the good work! And thank you for sharing.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Awesome! Thank you Gordon - Always great to hear about what products are working for people.

[@besamjohn]

Really cool seeing all come together!

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you Ben - it has been really exciting! Thank you for joining us.

[@LuckyCharmRVing]

Such a great setup!

[@TheDentsRUs]

wow great setup congratulations

[@KLHobbies99]

Great video! I could be wrong but I think some or most charge controllers/balancers want you to fully charge the batteries when you first start them up so it knows where the reference 100 percent state of charge is. Again, I'm no expert on all charge controllers and the like but y'all could easily look it up to check. Keep it up!

[@wearemilesfromnowhere4630]

Luke L I believe this BMS allows you to set the max charge voltage you desire and when it is reached, you are allowed a reset to mark that voltage as 100%. Same with the cutoff voltage, this way you get an accurate display of the SOC.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Luke - thank you for commenting. You are correct the batteries have parameters on what it means to be fully charged. The Victron Inverter also has its own monitoring system that keeps track of it as well. We have not fully charged the batteries yet but plan to as soon as we get all the parameters for the inverter.

[@KLHobbies99]

Beginning from this Morning Awesome! Can't wait to see the testing video!

[@heinricheggenfellner]

Hi, I am a little bit confused. I am going to build a system in my boat (24V LifePo4, Quatro 24/5000/120, CERBO GX, REC-BMS, Contactor, Pre-charge, Fuses, Shunt) Why do you have the contactor where it is? And the fuse? In the REC manual both the fuse and shunt are on the minus cable between the charger/inverter and the battery., and the contactor is on the plus cable between the charger/inverter and battery. As far as I can see your contactor will shut down the supply to all loads, but it will not break the connection between the inverter/charger and the battery? So the charger will continue to charge... A very good and explaining video :)

[@briandavis9975]

Very informative your videos are great and its really cool to see how much you do your research and why. it's so important most people will not take the time to learn what you have gone through and find out later that they wish they had. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. keep up the great work I'm looking forward to the next of many videos to come I hope, and thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge with us.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you Brian!

[@expeditionvehicleadventure2141]

Wow, super awesome set up for a 24 volt lithium. I am particularly interested because I will (Likely)be using Tesla batteries with a Victron Charger/Inverter. You have done an incredible job on the research as well as the install. Thank you, thank you for all of the hours and hard work that you have put into your system and sharing with the rest of us. I hope to start my install in the next couple months and I am certain I will be referencing your battery build videos.

[@expeditionvehicleadventure2141]

Correction, 48 volt, I think I will do a 24 volt.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you. I have heard great things about the Tesla packs! I am enjoying watching your build - amazing!

[@firpofutbol]

I am following your system build as well as the Mortons on the Move build with Tesla batteries for my Sprinter van build as a 24 volt system. I am a complete newbie with electrical stuff so just want to say thanks for all the great information! I am curious, did you look into Victron's Lynx Ion BMS and if so, why you decided to go with REC instead?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you for following along. We briefly looked at the Lynx-Ion systems but I think they are designed to work with Victron Batteries which use a different chemistry than the Nissan Leaf Modules. They use a chemistry called Lithium Iron Phosphate which has a lower nominal voltage (3.2 Volts vs our chemistry which is 3.8V) than our batteries. If you decide to go with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries there are WAY more options for BMS solutions (including this one). I guess we just like to make things difficult for ourselves ;)

[@ZegaracRobert]

Precharge main purpose is to protect your (contactor) contacts, few on's with empty caps in the inverter and contacts of whatever switch you are using are going to be damaged and contact resistance goes up and everything goes down hill from there... So yeah, precharge (thumbs up)

[@rosskstar]

How's it holding up? When Russia takes over Slovenia, might impact customer service eh? I wonder if it would work out of the box with MPPSolar LV6548

[@mustafayusuf7539]

where is written that this BMS communicates with Victron Inverter ? was not able to locate any info on that. please let us know. thank you

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

If you look at the SI systems there will be a link to download the user manual for the Victron compatible version - www.rec-bms.com/rec-battery-management-system/

[@kentwalker4392]

Cell 7 had a slightly lower voltage with all others reading the same. Could that be a problem, or is it only a problem when 1 or more cells reads higher than the rest?

[@BillCarlson]

Looks like its only down by a couple hundredths of a volt, which isn't a lot. They can correct me, but I think these batteries have sat unused for at least a year, so I personally wouldn't worry about it until after doing a full charge & drain cycle, and seeing where the voltages end up. Typically in failure cases, the cell will be nearly shorted out and *much* lower than the other cells in the pack.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Bill is correct - these batteries have not been used for well over a year. We will know more after our first complete cycle but a couple of hundredths of a Volt is a very small difference - The BMS is set to not even attempt to balance until there is a .25 Volt difference.

[@evangelon2]

Does the BMS’s CAN connection go to the Color GX or directly to the inverter?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

It goes to the CCGX.

[@evangelon2]

@@BeginningfromthisMorning copy that, I went through your blog (probably should have done that first) and just saw thats how it’s hooked up. Thanks for the confirmation!

[@phillipmccormick1508]

all right now all most there yes.

[@richardriehle4159]

such an impressive system ! but to me....it seems mighty complex. if the system isn't bullet proof....any backups ?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Richard - I am not really sure what you mean by "bulletproof". Any electrical system is going to have the possibility of failure - the BMS aims at trying to reduce these possibilities by monitoring and reporting what is happening in the battery. For backup we have two large 8D batteries that the coach uses to run the engine - In a pinch, (if something catastrophic happened to the Lithium batteries) we have a switch that will transfer power from the 8D batteries to our 12V House system (lights, pumps, fans, chargers) and one small 750W inverter that will keep our refrigerator cold.

[@richardriehle4159]

yup ! that's what i wanted to know ! thanks.

[@drsolar]

Which contactor did you use? I am trying to find a 48V contactor. Thank you. You rock

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi, the contactor I used was the one I bought with the BMS - it is a 500A, 32-95V DC non-latching contactor from TE Connectivity. Part # is EV200ADANA. It can be found on Digikey and Mouser: www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-aerospace-defense-and-marine/EV200ADANA/A105504-ND/2053596 www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Kilovac/EV200ADANA?qs=%2fha2pyFaduihGWSyvOcusfSQhfK%2f5yIqWIeVmzwAKkUvT9a3NIMs7A%3d%3d Good luck!

[@drsolar]

Thank you very much. I am sure you answered me once before.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Anytime

[@diydan6045]

So this contactor is always power on during use correct? does it get hot?

[@nebulight]

I'm curious why you are only using one contactor. The REC allows for dual contactors. Hook up all your charge sources to the charge contactor, then all your discharge sources to a discharge contactor. Then if you have an over voltage condition, it will disconnect your chargers while still allowing you to discharge. Same thing if you have an under voltage condition, you can still have your chargers connected to recovery the battery.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

nebulight Thank you for the question. I had the exact same idea when I first designed how this is connected. I asked REC about this and they said that the software that controls talks to the Color Control GX does a better job of controlling the charges (both the built in and the MPPT solar chargers).

[@nebulight]

Beginning from this Morning oh nice. So the bms can control charge curves or does it just enable/disable the charge? I was looking at their software and it looks very basic.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

When I asked they told me: "We have received the latest CCGX update from Victron 2.11 last week. In this update all the devices connected to CCGX obey BMS instructions - no additional MPPT control is required. Update CCGX to 2.11 or higher and also all Victron devices."

[@nebulight]

Beginning from this Morning that's awesome! Thanks for the quick replies. Can't wait to see your future videos. Do one on the ccgx and how the bms works with it. :)

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thanks - Victron Inverter is next in this series then the Color Control GX in the following week :)

[@Thomas-bm7ut]

Hi, I connect my REC BMS like you did. The CCGX shows me all data of the BMS, but my Multiplus2 doesn't react to the signals form CCGX. Do you change something on your Inverter? Does the charger stops when you disconnect the VE.BUS cable? Thanks for your help :)

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Thomas - It sounds like you have the timing on the VE.Can configured correctly (since you are seeing values on the CCGX). You can double check by opening the Settings -> Services and be sure that set the CAN-bus profile to VE.Can & CAN-bus BMS (250 kbit/s). In the Settings menu Change: Battery monitor to REC BMS in CAN-bus. - DVCC -> ON - SVS -> ON - STS -> ON - Limit charge control -> ON That should limit the chargers.

[@Thomas-bm7ut]

@@BeginningfromthisMorning thanks for your fast answer. I tried it, but the Multiplus2 are still charging around double the CCL in the parameters from REC. do you have an idea? when I unplug the ethernet cable, the charger is still doing what i program in VE. config and don't stop working :/

[@portlandlocalchurch8168]

What charge controller did you decide on?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

We decided on the Victron Smart MPPT 250/85 - It has been working great with 3450 Watts of solar and now with 4350 Watts of solar.

[@jackcreaker4602]

Hello Juan! Is it possible to install this BMS with 16s3p 400 Ah winston battery and connect it to victron CCGX?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Jack - it is indeed possible to do 16S with the REC-BMS and connect it to the Victron CCGX

[@jackcreaker4602]

@@BeginningfromthisMorning Thank you for your answer, I want to connect 48 pcs 400 Ah batteries. 3 parallel branches with 16 connected in series. Is it possible to connect it with this BMS? Best regards!

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

@@jackcreaker4602 If you want to connect 3 parallel branches of 16 you will need 3 BMS modules because you are creating 3 batteries that you are connecting together. Why not tie 3 in parallel (making each "cell" a 3.2V 1200Ah battery) then connect those 3 to 15 other sets of 3 making a 3p16s battery that you can then monitor and balance with 1 BMS?

[@ThrottleStopRacing]

On the display why is the total voltage in the red (upper left gauge)? In my comment on the last video I asked a couple of questions, and made a couple of suggestions. Did you get a chance to look at them? May be you can provide me with some help or education. I am really struggling with my video software (Adobe Premier Elements 2018). Adobe is very wishy washy with their responses and support. At first they were trying to say that my machine did not have enough HP to run the software. After three months of back and forth, all parties seem to now be in agreement that at least the machine has the HP. Adobe is now stating that the video boards in the machine are not on their list of approved boards, Nvidia says the boards exceed all the boards on Adobes list, that the boards on Adobies list are all old boards. Friday I was able to get Nvidia and Dell Pro Support to conference together, they came to the conclusion that there is no union between boards on Adobe's list, Dell's list of boards test in a Precision work station and that Nvidia says will work with Adobe. That is a long dissertation to get to the question, what software do you use to edit videos? Would you be willing to look at Adobes list (I can provide a link), the build sheet for my computer (I can scan and send it to you, I would need to know where to send it) and give an opinion on what board will work (I know you said you were a "computer nerd" I am as far from that as one can get, give me a engine and I can rebuild it, sit me in front of a computer and I am pretty lost. Thanks Glenn Lever [phone]

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Glenn, I will go back and review what you suggested - I always look forward to your suggestions I am not sure how I would have missed it. For editing software, I use Final Cut Pro and a MacBook Pro computer. I started just using iMovie but that got pretty limiting and made me mad enough to relearn everything one weekend. Video software, in general, is VERY taxing on systems. Of course I would be willing to help you out in any way I can. You can email me at [e-mail] - that is my primary email address. I look forward to hearing from you, Juan

[@ThrottleStopRacing]

I have sent you two e-mails at [e-mail] have you recieved them? Glenn Lever

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Glenn, Yes I received your emails and I am shocked that the system you described would have any problem at all running video editing software. The NVidia video cards you use are much higher end than the ones in my MacBook and you are running two of them - I would expect things to be buttery smooth with the configuration you sent. As you stated I am indeed running Apple - run a 2016 MacBook Pro with 16Gb of Ram and a 2.9 GHz i7 CPU. The GPU in my machine is a Radeon Pro 460 with 4GB of memory. As I stated earlier I run Final Cut Pro - which I believe is only available on Apple platform. I gave up on PC about 5 or 6 years ago and switched to only run Linux and Mac - I have very limited experience with Adobe but everything I have heard about them has been relatively positive. The good news is that most video editing software is very similar - I can't recommend Corel as I have never worked with it - but the transition from iMovie to Final Cut Pro literally took me a weekend. Maybe it's time to jump ship and get a Mac?

[@ThrottleStopRacing]

I will try the Solid state drives first, and then different software. Glenn Lever

[@BruceChrisp]

Hi Juan, I'm trying to set up my RV with the Victron stuff and a REC Active BMS. So far, I can't get it to work, although I was able to finally get the firmware for the Wifi module iupdated. It can't find the BMS, and it seems like I've tried everything. I've sent REC an email and have heard nothing, perhaps because it's the weekend. Any help you're willing to offer would be much appreciated. Love the video!

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Bruce. We are headed out, but if you email me I can try and help later when we get home. [e-mail]

[@airos52]

what is the Password?

[@floreswoestenburg9367]

i like your style, calm and informative, your wife is also techincal skilled, kids very helpfull, awesome!!

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you Flores

[@FretsNirvana]

Very good overview, I am interested in this system. I will look at your blog too ...but if it is not there can you specify the components you actually purchased from Rec? Just subbed to help out too.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Richard I list all the components on the blog post along with what we paid for everything. Keep in mind that not everything I purchased is mandatory but I basically bought almost everything they offered. beginningfromthismorning.com/bms/

[@josephwilliamcosta]

I’m always lying in wait for your videos. Keep it up guys!

[@kylecarson2395]

Very Informative video. I am looking into Victron equipment cause I think it just seems so polished. Does Victron have a BMS? If so why didnt you use it? Is the unit you call the Contactor the same function as Victron (BP100) Battery Protect?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Victron does have a BMS - or better stated: they have BMS units built into their batteries. They also have another module that those BMS units can talk to but it is all designed to work with their battery (I believe it is called the Lynx Ion BMS). The contactor is basically like an on/off switch for the battery. It is similar to the Victron Battery Protect but it is controlled by the BMS

[@DaleKlein]

Looks neat, nice system. Even a precharge setup before the contactor closes. And your solar input to the battery is downstream of the main contactor, so if the BMS is nervous about temperature, high or low voltage, it should disconnect that too. Very fun!

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you - Should be a good system for us. We did some preliminary testing and it looks very promising - video should be up shortly!

[@Sam_M0SJW]

I notice Batrium BMS have added Victron CCGX support to a recent version of their product. There are not many choices for DIY lithium compatibility with Victron. You mention considering the Orion BMS, did you consider Batrium or any others?

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Hi Sam, When I started looking I had narrowed it down to Orion and REC. Batrium was still just starting out. I have heard quite a few who wanted to run Batrium but I have not seen one up and running yet - It looks like a very promising system. What type of battery are you running?

[@Sam_M0SJW]

Beginning from this Morning There are quite a few systems out there but most seem to be DIY powerwalls. There have been a few RV systems discussed on forums but not using Victron. The latest BMS boards are only just starting to ship so hopefully more people will start experimenting. My battery is a simple DIY 18650 pack used for camping. Made from identical recovered Sanyo cells that I get from a friend. I have about 4kwh stockpiled so far. I'm just running a simple BMS. I'm taking an interest in RV systems as I'm helping a friend rewire his boat with the hope I may have my own one day. Thanks very much for posting all that you have done! You are one of very few documenting a Mobile DIY Li-ion system with a smart BMS.

[@josidasilva5515]

This is a cheaper way of doing the same: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmbJXq2nfMmHeM0 The 7 BMS required would cost around $120 - they protect each cell against overload, overcharge, undercharge and short circuit. Notice that they also do not short the mid point of each module.

[@BeginningfromthisMorning]

Thank you Josi. I don't really understand what you mean when you say "Notice that they also do not short the midpoint of each module" - The video you linked clearly showed wires on the center terminals. I don't really know enough about the cheaper BMS to comment much but when I was looking at them there were a lot of problems. How do these BMS protect your system? Do they have a contactor or some other means of shutting down the battery in an emergency? A good quality Contactor for a 48V battery alone is going to cost more than $120. How do they communicate with the rest of the system? Can they speak CAN-BUS? Can the parameters be changed and monitored? Do they monitor for Temperature? Do they monitor the internal resistance of the battery cells? There are many great BMS systems out there but these cheap Chinese BMSs are more trouble than they are worth.

[@josidasilva5515]

@@BeginningfromthisMorning I meant the point between the two series connected cells in each module. So each individual cell is metered.