Recording Drums: Dans EP Challenge Episode 2 - That Pedal Show

I'm recording some music over series of vlogs - in this episode I get some help with recording drums.
Hello and welcome to my vlog!
I cannot program drums to save myself, so I've procured a drummer, the finest tub thumper in yonder kingdom, Tubbs McGee (AKA Dougie Mussard) be thy name, to record drums for this project.
I'm also introducing Fraser who helps with audio production at That Pedal Show. He's too handsome to have on camera normally, and I just make him look awesome! Fraser kindly offered to produce this little excursion into artistic endeavours, skirting around the edges of actual music. He takes us through his drum recording process. I promise you it's not nearly as dull as you think it might be.
Sure, it's not me and Mick wailing away on an epic wet-dry rig, but I can attest to it being mildly interesting //and// you get to meet Fraser. Awesome!
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[@Gniff85411]

Fraser needs his own show on the channel. That Production Show?

[@ThatPedalShow]

We agree. All in good time if he’s up for it!

[@freeridercam]

@@ThatPedalShow Has Dan coerced him into jits, as well?

[@hoagyguitarmichael]

I was producing my band and complimented the engineer on getting a great drum sound. He said, "It is easy, all you need is a great drummer and a great set of drums."

[@Yupppi]

Great guy, this Fraser you've got. Really love how you've expanded the TPS concept to be universally helpful and especially knowledgeable, professional. You have quite a strong crew now that you've hired staff to help you. The channel has improved so much over the years. These side shows are as fun as the main friday show! And gives a fresh look, as well as more content but not exhaustive. And to Fraser's credit, that pretty much is science measuring the distance. That's the first impact of the wave anyway and probably gonna be the loudest so it's worth it to have equal length of travel of the wave. Or some multiplier of the main wave length that correlates with the other mic's position at least. Yet super easy thing to overlook, wouldn't have thought about the phase issue until mix had a stupid snare sound ruining the whole track. Looking forward to seeing more of your excellent staff on videos when available. I forget who said it, but someone pretty professional said that if you know your equipment and play well, you don't need a specific recording studio to get great guitar sounds. You also showed this when you mic'd your amps all over the office, even the bathroom. Of course it's gonna vary a bit here and there, especially when you start getting serious and want room sounds in, but a normal room is a great starting point with near mics. Very normal in the modern days, even more normal to just record the DI when playing at home to get the better studio sound without spending a lot of money in playing in a studio. And like mixers/producers say, it doesn't matter how good your equipment is if you don't have a good pair of ears.

[@JM-bg2ts]

Thankyou Dan your positive attitude is sorely needed right now. Keep up the good work.

[@KristofferVad]

Don’t know what I loved more - Dan’s enthusiasm or Fraser’s insights. What an assett he is to TPS... and subsequently to all of us viewers!

[@dunhamchris]

Frasier - what a genuine dude. Thanks for having him on!

[@drutgat2]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this, Dan. Love Fraser's use of the Ringo tea-towel technique - my favourite drum sound.

[@seanpatrickwatkins640]

I love this, Dan! And Fraser! Please please please continue. I'm particularly interested in the reamping process. This is gonna be a hit, especially now that we're all at home.

[@michael_caz_nyc]

Me too.

[@mattheweastel129]

Absolutely fascinating. Great inputs from Frasier, it sounds like he’s got you a great representation of Doug’s excellent drumming there

[@TheFeelButton]

You got a great series here Dan! Thanks for the entertainment from a social distance!! 🙏😊

[@timchalmers1700]

Brilliant guys !! Great to see and hear from Fraser.

[@MrYatesj1]

Garbage in garbage out, thats always been the case even before digital technology.

[@thomasromay237]

You guys are awesome, and Fraser needs to be on more often. 🙂

[@vincet68]

FRAZER!!!! Great episode, guys.

[@RambleTone]

Awesome Dan! Really liked the sound of even the rough mix with scratch tracks. Can’t wait to hear the finished songs😃🎸🥁

[@RenanBeltrao]

the rought mix by the end already sounds SO GOOD :)

[@RobBrownSTS]

This is awesome!! So great to hear from Fraser. I think a large amount of us listeners try to dabble in the recording and production sphere so it’s great to have a fuller picture of the process from TPS not just on guitars. Also Doug is such a tasteful player. Well done chaps

[@ulfdanielsen6009]

Dear Dan, FYI, a recording trick from Ian Paice of Deep Purple as stated in an old interview (parafrased): " If you want a huge drum sound when recording a studio album you take your kit and tune the toms and kick as low as they can go without loosing the whipping trampoline feel of the intial attack of pedal or stick. After that you take a fairly large and deep snare drum and tune it as high as it can go with sounding like a piccolo snare. This gives you a the sound of a large, deep and powerful drum kit even when using a jazz kit. The rest is the recording engineer and the producer making the best of the room and the microphones,- especially the room mics,- and you´ve got it." Good luck.

[@peterjessop1878]

This was spooky. My daughter asked me this morning how you record drums.( for her performance college course) my answer was “mmmm......Glyn Johns method but let me check”, then this appears in the afternoon. Thank you Dan, Mick and especially Fraser.

[@JonNewquist]

Hey Dan, greetings from the Redwood Empire, north of San Francisco. Mic'ing drums has felt complicated to me for 30 years, and my last go was on a four track cassette machine. Lost a bit of fidelity bouncing tracks. This was educational. And Fraser really knows his stuff! Thanks for documenting this process.

[@SerjBassist]

5:16 OF COURSE the man pulling the strings and making the show sit together beautifully while in the shadows is a bass player.

[@-davidolivares]

Happy Easter Dan! May we rise soon again also!

[@cowieson]

This is really fascinating. Really looking forward to hearing more about the recording and mastering process, and from Fraser in general. Top stuff!

[@RamrockMansJukebox]

Lately I've been thinking of our stringularly challenged brethren (the bass players) and how nice it would be if TPS could make some content for them to enjoy as much as I enjoy the regular guitar-related TPS output. Maybe videos released on a monthly or bi-monthly basis, if your schedules permit it. You could discuss bass pedal basics, compression as it relates to bass, and how bass fits in a band mix. You could even illustrate the latter with some jams! As a guitarist who dabbles a bit in bass from time to time, I would find this interesting as well. Now, if only you had a bass player with an interest in pedals at hand to co-host these potential videos...

[@wolfgangfetzer8836]

I've been thinking exactly same. Beeing a bassist myself and beeing a regular viewer of TPS I myself quite often thinking: "I wish I could hear that pedal they're using with a bass guitar". And there are no boundaries. There is so much that works both on guitar and on bass: Drives, BigMuffs, Compressor, wobbly stuff, Fender Bassmans, Hiwatts and so on...

[@TeiscoCurlee]

Fantastic and informative content in this series, really looking forward to the rest!

[@jonboydiego999]

What a great lad! Very interesting, very intuitive, very simple. I shall take some of these techniques and add them to my limited experience of recording drums. Thanks for a great video... Do more of these! :) Thank you 👍

[@pedalgazer7109]

Very gratified to see F. measuring the distance between his overheads and the snare. For me, that's the most important thing with overheads- mic choice, preamps, etc pale in comparison to simply getting those overheads in phase (with the snare- you have to choose what element you want to be in phase- most people choose the snare- some people aim for a compromise between snare and kick.) In my life, I started doing this when I read about the Glynn Johns method. In my book, the key idea in his method is not using four mics, or positioning a LDC over the low tom- it's measuring the distance between overheads and snare. He even had a specific distance he thought "perfect" (40 inches if I recall) . I consider anyone measuring overheads to be using his method, really, as that's the one, most critical thing an engineer can do with drums. Simply doing this instantly changed my drums sounds- they went from sounding "trashy" and just a bit off to sounding really good. It's easy too. A lot of engineers have an assistant walk around with the second mic and find the right spot by ear. To each his own- but if you just measure you get there much, much faster- and your ear might get you close, but if you measure- bam- the "picture" of the kit in the heads snaps into focus- every time- no need for messing about. Thanks Dan for a fun vlog. Can't wait to hear your ep!!!!

[@scottw9732]

I've never played drums and never recorded anything, but this is fascinating to me. Cool to realize how tonal concepts transcend individual instruments. These vlogs are great, and I particularly look forward to your next practice vlog. Cheers, Dan.

[@rjroth4869]

I;m not a drummer; have never recorded anything. This is all new to me - and yet so interesting. Good to meet Frazier finally. And I love being in on the whole process step by step. Looking forward to then guitars!

[@cianr82]

Hey guys love the show, love what you do. Keep up the great work!!

[@JasonClute]

Really enjoying this journey and so great to meet Fraser finally! I see why he got the job!

[@Dave-ug9bh]

Fraser seems very humble... bet he's a beast on the bass!

[@ThatPedalShow]

He’s a splendid human. We’re lucky to have him!

[@TeleCathster]

Having just listened to last night VCQ I wish you’d called this video “let there be GRUMS!!!” Haha sorry Dan had to say it! Brilliant series!

[@guitarsimon1]

Super excited to hear how this comes out, the little snippet in this and the last vlog sounds mega!

[@patrickcarroll1754]

Fraser unmasked!

[@johowohoj]

I’ve done this once in a different place and I’m finding it so hard to get back into it...you are very inspiring...I’m hopeful again...

[@dep1001]

So interesting, Dan! Loving this series! Cheers

[@danmist]

For anyone interested in recording I would thoroughly recommend Warren Huart's Produce Like a Pro KZbin channel. It's really excellent.

[@violao206]

Warren is great, but Rick Beato has EQ and Compression, among several others, that I find a little more focused in the presentation that I keep going back to reference. Warren keeps things very real on the gear front. He is very empathetic to entry-level studios.

[@MattXScott]

Thanks a bunch for the recording videos!

[@SouthWestFloridaLife]

Great content....can you post an equipment list? Mics, interface, software all through the process?

[@dr05guitar]

Just getting ready soon to do my drum tracking for a project...I have an untreated room but I have a couple large sound dampening blankets I'm planning to drape around. Your drums here without any of that still sound quite good to my ear though! I figure the blankets will help though with the space I'm in cutting down reflections.

[@fraserlatimer7404]

dr05guitar Hey man! Best thing to do is chuck your mics up and have a listen to what you’re capturing. You may find that your untreated room is total magic and you don’t need to do anything. Alternatively you may find it sounds awful! But you’ll never know till you take a listen :)

[@dr05guitar]

Fraser Latimer thanks man! Enjoyed your advice!

[@mkkrushmt]

As a professional guitarist and recording engineer I am very much enjoying this series! Can’t wait to hear the finished EP!

[@AZFunk]

Great episode, love that you're doing these side chains.

[@anthonydratnal1870]

I love that little DW Frequent Flyer kit, it's so versatile! I've been able to muffle mine down to acoustic guitar levels for songwriting sessions while still sounding like a full volume kit... still working on getting the cymbals to do the same, though.

[@tedc6694]

Like with last episode, I wonder how much difference the pricey preamp makes compared to the nice mic. I love these episodes. Nobody can know everything but it's awesome to hear that Dan hasn't known all this (hasn't done everything) before. But I suppose being rich, handsome, and famous doesn't give you supernatural knowledge of things you haven't done before. As someone who has played & recorded every instrument, in a rock band, I can tell you that having good equipment helps. But four 57s , a mixing board from 70s and an 8 track real to real can be enough to make a EP that people will pay money for. Keep up the good work Dan! And try to share all the DETAILS you can

[@ClockAgentOfficial]

My erstwhile producer swears by his preamps, so much so that the last recording we did went straight in the desk and bypassed amps totally.

[@allmetaliswelcome]

Whichever one makes the difference is always an interesting point of discussion in the recording community. A terrible microphone going into a great mic pre is terrible, and a great microphone going into a terrible mic pre is terrible. That being said it's hard to come by a terrible mic pre these days, most affordable interfaces have pretty decent pre's, and more and more companies are starting to make great value for money microphones aswell. And, of course, a lot of great sounding music has been recorded with SM57's on guitars/drums/you name it and there's tons of great sounding records where people sing though an SM7B...

[@petehixson9046]

such a well spoken young man, maybe the planet isn't doomed

[@ThatPedalShow]

That’s hilarious. Mick here. When we interviewed him, that’s EXACTLY what I thought. Hahahahahha!!!!!!

[@petehixson9046]

@@ThatPedalShow Great minds think alike, I'll leave it there.

[@ginoames]

This is great. Thanks for sharing this.

[@chedhead3278]

Cheers Dan, Doug and Fraser, inriguing stuff this. :)

[@tylerkenney1488]

Fascinating! Moar Fraser!

[@MatthewJohnCrittenden]

Fraser is a Gem, good addition to the team. Stay safe chaps.

[@GazMoz78]

This is great really enjoyed it! The tom sounds were particularly good I thought, very 60's :-)

[@curtisburns]

Panning is where a lot of people go wrong with the Glyn Johns technique. Don't Pan them hard left and right, pan them 50% left and right 👌.

[@mattelder9147]

If you record the drums with mics, what is the hesitation on recording your guitar amps with mics for the EP? The sound has got to be there to get a great recording; Because Tone.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Because I wanted to see if I could record really great tone at home. Drums are recorded like this for expediency, but it would take me a week in the studio to record all my guitar parts, so the challenge is, can I do it in my tiny little home office

[@robbarstow2074]

Well Fraser is great isn’t he?! Fab video.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

What putting the drum-kit through the Strymon Mobius on (Mode:Quadrature)(submode:LB) to give a nice interesting edge to the drums.

[@stevekirby7333]

All those guitars though. A very good local drummer with lots of session experience once told me, if it's not in the song, it shouldn't be in the room. He will even take off drums that won't be used. I'd discovered this, and he confirmed it, while trying to make a drum track with a very clean tight snare sound. I had this great 12x5.5 DW snare that had the sound I was looking for, but eventually figured out that my shell tom was ringing. Taking it off and covering it with a blanket solved the problem. Then the advice from my buddy to "take it out of the room". As the recordings you folks made in Macarri's showed, something sympathetic resonances can be a good thing. But sometimes they aren't.

[@brianelliott8358]

Hello Fraser! He's a great addition to the TPS team. It would have been nice to hear samples of the mics in isolation, and then the rough mix. Next time?

[@TheWhollymoly]

Great job, Fraser! I loved your work on "Father Ted!" just kidding...

[@HenritheHorse]

I've got a 3 mic set up on the drumset, in my kitchen! Pretty great and simple sound! Also we need some production episodes from Fraser!

[@kolombijec]

cant wait for the next episode... 🤘

[@patriotpizzaman]

I liked the sound from the Glyn Johns technique when Dougie got the idea that sent the song into a new direction. I'll reserve judgment on Frasier's sound until the final mix though because I know how much EQ & compression change things up. The guide guitars sound great.

[@charlesbeckerson7081]

When can we expect episode 3? Can’t wait...

[@jamesgoddin8880]

That's a top team you've got there at TPS towers. Fraser's one smart cookie.

[@joshfowler8360]

like your stage framing id bet sitting under that gives you that live stage feel! do u hang mics lights and speakers on it? also your running short on pedals in the background

[@RandyWillcox]

This is great, nice work, Fraser! But I'm curious, are the drums being layered? at 14:01 Doug is playing a rack tom and floor tom pattern but there's still a hi-hat being played sans foot. At first I thought maybe the wrong clip was used, but it sounds as though the tom parts he's playing still match. I is confused.

[@fraserlatimer7404]

Randy Willcox Hi Randy, that bit was indeed layered!

[@CaesarTjalbo]

Has it been pointed out already that Mussard is an anagram of Drumass?

[@TheMadLicksBand]

DigiDan! About recording guitar at home.. I'm also recording an (instrumental) EP right now and i'm really steuggling to get lead tones. I've thought about purchasing a Strymon Iridium.. Did you try it for this purpose? Thanks! Yonathan

[@mclarensmps]

Did not know about the mic height and phasing! It's these little things, man! Sweet tips!

[@frownonline]

I'd love to hear about Doug's experience on this - what he learnt / contributed to the setup and recording. Seems a shame to omit the drummer out of the chat? Either way - cool stuff!

[@ericcarpenter3263]

Holy hell Dan. Frazier is the shit man. As a guitar player that wants to record, I’d like to do that with friends, and luckily I have friends that play drums. Using loops or drum programs is great for ideas and demos and such but NOTHING sounds like a real drummer. I’ve watched Glenn Fricker and Warren Huart and Recording Revolution and all that. Maybe it’s because I listen to TPS more intently, but the way Frazier broke down what he mic’d, how, and the results of, was truly connecting dots. I respect and look up to the others I mentioned, and trust them to give me the straight truth but Frazier broke it down so I could understand so much more than before. That is in no way a reflection on Frazier dumbing it down, I just feel like he understood his audience and some of us have never mic’d a guitar amp with more than one mic much less use a drum kit with 7 mics. That’s insane. My interface has one mic and one guitar input. That’s it. Lol. Kuddos to Frazier for being beast mode on breaking shit down. If he has the time, once a month of “here’s some recording/ mic stuff even a guitarist can understand without having to crazy deep dive, and you can make music” segment. Don’t steal that title though, it’s a bit too long and surely you have better ideas. Above all thanks, for all of you at TPS for all you share with us. 🤘🏻

[@KristofferG]

A bit overexposed on this video, are you guys sitting closer to the lights? The background seems normal. But content is awesome, as usual! I want to record drums again...

[@deepspacetheater]

It's funny --well, maybe just to me--that some of my favorite drum sounds have been on records that weren't at all among my favorites. Two come immediately to mind: "Deja Vu," from CSNY's album of the same name; and "Flowers and Beads," from that psychedelic garage classic "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida," by Iron Butterfly. The latter might have been compressed as all get-out, but it's a hompin' sound. Among my favorite drum sounds on most-favored albums are with Michael Shrieve on the first Automatic Man LP, Mitch Mitchell on "Are You Experienced," and Buddy Miles as a guest in the "Electric Ladyland" sessions. I love a really thrashin' style, nowadays with a firecracker snare. Recommended: Nils Petter Molvaer, Live+Direct, right here on KZbin.

[@chrisjohnstone6164]

lovely show - thanks

[@deltafit]

At least Fraser was looking at the right camera at the end :D

[@jamesmoverley5712]

Can't wait to hear the tracks Dan!

[@hotblackdesiato3451]

The first question is, 'is a drumkit one instrument or many?' If it's one then you just need a mic on the bass and two overheads otherwise feel free to go nuts with mics on everything including pressure zone mics on the walls! Ahhh, the fun and games of recording drums...

[@Glicksman1]

They/it are/is many instruments which we try to make sound like one.

[@hotblackdesiato3451]

@@Glicksman1 Ah, so just like a guitar with six individual strings, drums are one instrument!

[@matabercrombie3816]

I'm a recording engineer/guitar player. Watching Fraser talk to Dan about phase relationships and how everything on the show also relates to recording felt like watching myself on the show.

[@johnfrewin7717]

He’s a keeper 👍

[@andreaslindstedt3486]

Nice seeing Fraser 👍

[@natrelacoustix]

I worked as a live engineer pre all this technology. You couldn't save a 'page' of EQ, that would magical be saved to memory back then. We had desk maps. I used to do band night's in city center night clubs (Liverpool). You could bet there would be three right handed drummers and one lefty whos band would flatly refuse to do anything other than play right in the middle of the nught. But what I always told my trainees was, A good engineer will make a good artist sound amazing. But a Good engineer will magnify every flaw of a bad artist. There's no 'talent' button on the sound desk... Well there wasn't back then... Now? real time auto-tune heaven help us!!

[@johnmason7425]

How did he deal with all the guitars in the room (strings vibrate), and the spring reverb tanks can as well? Very interesting!

[@fraserlatimer7404]

Hi John.. Noise from the guitars wasn’t an issue, Doug hits hard! The challenge is more removing from the sound of a small and reflective room. Just meant we were limited to close mics!

[@garystackhouse5787]

I've mostly used 4 mics for drums... Kick, UNDER snare, and 2 overheads (in XY stereo to help prevent phase issues) grabbing everything else. I run the kick and snare through a 31 band eq and compressor, add a little 'verb in post, depending on the room, and it comes out great. I agree, you need a great drums sound and competent drummer or it will sound like crap no matter WHAT mic technique you use. (Incidentally, Glyn himself says he doesn't hard pan his two "overheads"... more like halfway-ish.)

[@hotblackdesiato3451]

Mum says having a mic on (under) the snare is elitist. (I wouldn't argue. She could knock all your teeth out with one punch.)

[@garystackhouse5787]

Hotblack Desiato ...I would never argue with someone who spent a year dead for tax reasons... let alone his mom.

[@robgoodfellow]

something to have some fun with your palette ... there's some space jam rock from Japan you can find a recent live video on youtube for "Kikagaku Moyo Full Performance (Live on KEXP)" ... pedals, guitars, bass. drums, and some HUGE MONSTER frets on a Japanese string instrument for people who like TALL frets

[@samcomfort6564]

I demand to see more of Frasier

[@ClockAgentOfficial]

Recording rabbit holes. Not sure Pink Floyd ever went that far in their pursuit of new sounds, but fair play :) :) :)

[@jamescuttsmusicjcm5013]

These days... if you have a good room in terms of sound quality at your disposal... that is ideal. You just track what you need to and take it back to a small home studio with quality gear/plugins. I mean these days its really nuts how much we have at our fingertips. In a way it is sad because traditional studios are no longer explicitly needed, but also it is empowering to the average musician. In the time since this video was made, plugins themselves have had major breakthroughs even. I wish all this stuff was available when i was 14yo and just starting. Instead i had cakewalk guitar tracks 2.0 and the sonitus fx suite only. Hahaha.

[@periloustemple8290]

He's awesome.

[@alastairnunn1101]

Fraser, where did you study? I'm assuming it was some sort of music tech course?

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hello! Just in case Fraser doesn’t see this, yes, he is a Tonmeister. If that’s the right way to say it. Mick here. :0)

[@tonybrooks476]

Fraser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Ric007Mason]

Hi Fraser!! 🤟🏻

[@alanredversangel]

Tut tut. Dan using the staff for his side projects....

[@freepadz6241]

More like this. Tbh there's only so much you can do with pedals

[@jonathankrieger9121]

Fraser seems to be such a lovely guy

[@ThatPedalShow]

He is!

[@chrisjames1924]

Anyone here have any experience with the EHX Oceans 11 pedal? I'm after a good spring reverb sound for my old 5c1 Fender Champ. Are all the other 'soundscape' sounds any good or is it gimmicky multi fx territory? Basically, I don't want anything to comprimise the main event.

[@charlesbeckerson7081]

When is episode 3?

[@sour37]

FRASER!!!!!

[@joshfowler8360]

missn a little snap on those drumms but dont want to klip right

[@Glicksman1]

Producers spend lots of time recording drums and mixing for good stereo effect when so much R&R and R&B sounds best in mono.

[@johnballantyne3458]

I bet the Glynn Johns technique is easier to get a good result from if you record to tape.

[@thenotsoguitarguy9429]

The only real requirement for getting good results from the Glynn Johns technique is to have an excellent, top-notch drummer. The other variables matter to a much lesser extent. The Glynn Johns technique will highlight the flaws of even a really okay drummer. True fact: the reason the Glynn Johns technique is so well known is John Bonham.

[@JollyWillard]

The tip for putting the overhead mics the same distance from the snare was ace.