Recovering Refrigerant with the Compressor While the Unit is Running, Adjusting the Charge!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Paperback & E-Book: www.acservicetech.com/the-book The E-Book and Paperback are both is Available for Purchase at the Website! Tool List- www.amazon.com/shop/acservicetech Support the Channel- www.patreon.com/acservicetech For those that are looking for the tools used in the videos: (Linked Below) UEI DL479 Multimeter with temp sensor amzn.to/2jtsUbJ Yellow Jacket Refrigerant Gauge Set amzn.to/2aenwTq Refrigerant hoses with valves amzn.to/2aBumVI Yellow Jacket Gauge set & hoses amzn.to/2vLVkV9 Yellow Jacket 4 Port Manifold w Hoses amzn.to/2BkuGIq Digital Refrigerant Scale amzn.to/2b9oXYl Ratcheting Service Wrench amzn.to/2dGV4Nh FieldpieceSMAN360 Digital Manifold Set amzn.to/2BdoaD4 FieldpieceSMAN460 Digital Manifold Set amzn.to/2nB4Fe6 Ultrasonic Leak Detector with Headphones- amzn.to/2B2cRO3 Compact Ball Valve for Refrigerant Hose amzn.to/2KUisW8 QuickDisconnect 90 for refrigerant hose amzn.to/2MMtVcg JB 6 CFM Vacuum Pump amzn.to/2nqbvo8 Appion Blue 3/8" to 1/4" Vacuum Hose amzn.to/2uYlVyc Appion Red 3/8" to 1/4" Vacuum Hose amzn.to/2uYg6Ro Appion Valve Core Removal Tool amzn.to/2uYr8WL Yellow Jacket 1/4" by 1/4" hose amzn.to/2umtcod CPS Vacuum Micron Gauge amzn.to/2v1nM3O Supco Vacuum Micron Gauge amzn.to/2v1JRiA RectorSeal Bubble Gas Leak Detector amzn.to/2ckWACn Magnet Jumpers- amzn.to/2PyKPQZ Alligator Jumpers- amzn.to/2PxqJXn Fieldpiece ST4 Dual Temp Meter amzn.to/2wc1ME3 Fieldpiece Bead K Type Temp Sensor amzn.to/2DBwKfs Fieldpiece Wet Bulb Temp Sensor amzn.to/2RRI7Tw Fieldpiece TC24 Temp Clamp amzn.to/2qHLyjZ UEI DL389 Multimeter amzn.to/2xAdaJf Air Acetylene Torch setup amzn.to/2aQalsb 15% Silver Brazing Rods amzn.to/2gVLyLc Nitrogen Regulator amzn.to/2bXdR5f Nitrogen Flow Meter amzn.to/2brvoBg Other tool links can be found in the video description section. Shop through Amazon! Your Purchases through Amazon provide a means for channels such as mine to earn advertising fees from all purchases after clicking through. Prices are the same as normal- www.amazon.com/shop/acservicetech

[@publicmail2]

I noticed the charging jacket are $100, can you use a plastic bag? Also, do you recommend insulate wrapping the TXV therm pickup on the line for more accuracy?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Hey AD, the txv bulb should always be clamped with copper or stainless steel clamps and insulated over both the bulb and the suction line. Yes you could use a trash bag and I did at times at school to show the process. I would start with a small hole and make it bigger as we went on. The problem is that not all units are small enough to have a 55 gallon trash bag fit around the top and also how that looks for the homeowner, thanks AD!

[@Gabe0220]

I got your book two weeks ago, I really like it and appreciate your videos! And book is awesome. Thanks

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Gabriel 22! I am glad that you are enjoying the book!

[@DM-jf3lg]

Wow! Great video. I actually learned something new today. I’ve been doing this type of work for over 15 years and never knew you could recover a small amount of refrigerant this way. I’ve always pulled out the recovery machine. Thanks for the video.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks DM!

[@rogerf3622]

Another great video. I should also mention here that I purchased several copies of your outstanding book. I am totally impressed! It is extremely well written with outstanding graphics and larger print my old eyes can easily read, and the spiral binder is an excellent addition. Your book is so much better than many other AC text books. I would highly recommend this book for anyone learning the HVAC trade or studying for their EPA certification and for others who need a quick refresher on standard AC procedures.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thank you very much Roger! I really appreciate your note!

[@christiancarrillo5234]

Thank you so much this video helped so much. I am current HVAC student and this video is perfect. I will now ace my final

[@acservicetechchannel]

Sweet, that's awesome Christian!

[@kennethjohnson359]

Craig finally got to read the ac book it is great. Easy to follow and very useful I’ve been in the business for 17 years and have never found a book as good. Highly recommend it. Thank you

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thank you very much Kenneth! I appreciate!

[@DVGuy2]

Hey Craig, I recently purchased your Paper book, I briefly wanna say Man your book is what every Teac new and experienced need in their Truck everyday! The Photos your skilled hands on direction as well as the text size is what you need in the field. Your Book is better than my School text Book...I just wish I could've gotten it autograph by you Sir! Thanks again!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Well thank you very much for your kind words! I am really glad that you are enjoying the book L Brown!

[@watcherwatchmen7785]

This is excellent, not only a good way to show your customers you know what you're doing, but they are getting overcharged (literally) by the competition and paying more than they need to due to inexperienced techs. Where I live, most companies charge 40.00 - 60.00 per lb of refrigerant. I would subtract the cost of the refrigerant I recovered from their system when I write the bill for service.

[@fukashima6586]

No.

[@workingshlub8861]

these videos are great...been fixing air conditioners for years on the electrical side and just passed my 608 universal......i know the basics of the refrigeration side but i still have alot to learn.

[@luiselizalde6757]

I just hoping that you continue post more videos, you are a excellent teacher, thanks for those videos, valuable videos. As always have a good one.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Luis, will do!

[@WillieMakeit]

hello at 3:58 you say don't open both handles at the same time because it will damage compressor. can you help me understand this please. long time supporter

[@JL-ss3ux]

Exactly what I needed. Great series.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thank you for your support!

[@SamChaneyProductions]

Great video. I calculated my target superheat to be 24F which seems high to me. WB in = 71, DB in = 80, outside = 85. It's a piston R410A system. SH is currently at 10F, and not cooling that well. Thanks!

[@mrgolestani748]

I have a 5 ton older AC that had broke down a few times in the past and the technician had to remove some parts and replace them but to do that he had to drain or get rid of freon and then charge me for free on again which wasn't cheap is there a company out there that can replace the part but somehow save the freon and use it again after replacing the part?

[@gerardolopez3858]

From reading these comments I'm going to give your book a try.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Sounds great! The best deal is at our website but it's also available on amazon. I will be eager to hear what you think of it after reading it, thanks!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Sounds great. I am eager to here what you think of the book after reading it!

[@kevinstjohn6311]

How do I recover refrigerant from a disconnected compressor I pumped refrigerant int it using the compressor then removed system

[@Droningonuk]

Can you reuse recovered gas or does it have to be discarded?

[@tjsh11]

What could be the issue* and what would you do if the low side temp did drop below 32f? 6:40

[@thermcontrol9976]

R410A, is a zeotropic but near-azeotropic mixture of R-32 and R-125, if AIRCON. with TXV, subcool is 3 F, means low on refrigerant R410A, MY question is, can we do topup with R410A or we need to recover old R410A and do vacuum and recharge new full vergin R41OA by weight. 2. If Aircon., is low on refrigerant R410A, the refrigerant in Aircon.,become unbalance as its a mixture of R32 & R125, is it true?

[@joshflynn9388]

Really enjoy the videos, great reinforcement for your book.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Josh!

[@Sctronic209]

I totally agree.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks HVAC 1!

[@greyguy9767]

What about the oil that is being recovered with the refrigerant? I know it's minimal Just technical question

[@alexlarkin207]

My compressor is pumped down holding all the refrigerant and I want to remove from compressor but do not have a machine. Is this the only way to do that?

[@tebbink]

Good teacher👍👍👍

[@acservicetechchannel]

Many many thanks

[@YTsux24-7]

Great video Craig 👍

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Tom!

[@LongTrout]

Do you need to be concerned with oil lose during recovery process?

[@dario6749]

What happens if you try to use a recovery machine to recover refrigerant while the system is running?

[@lordjaashin]

can we use this same procedure to take out a little bit of extra refrigerant charge out of R410a mini split? i heard R410a has higher pressure in liquid line than R22 system

[@acservicetechchannel]

The problem is that the minisplits do not usually have a liquid port. Make sure to read the charging articles on mini-split systems at our website www.acservicetech.com/articles, thanks!

[@lordjaashin]

@@acservicetechchannel mine mini split has 5/16 inch charging port on liquid line too. i know its weird as mini splits usually don't have any type of port on liquid line. still if there is a R410a unit that has a charging port on liquid line, is it safe to recover small amount of refrigerant from it? I'm asking this because of high pressure present in liquid line of R410a systems.

[@raulm2868]

Just got a job at an apartment building and I have to work on ACs. I have basic/ minimal knowledge. I have heat pump systems. The gauges are reading 30 on low side should be at 40. No matter how much Freon I put in system it stays at 30. It fluctuates from 20-30. What’s the problem? Originally coils inside were frozen. Using MO99 instead of r22. Please help.

[@acservicetechchannel]

It could be low airflow or a liquid line restriction. I spell all of this out in the book but liquid line restriction is high superheat with normal to high subcooling and low airflow is low superheat with a piston, and normal superheat with a txv, thanks!

[@TonyNanni]

One more question: Why couldn't you take some refrigerant out of either the liquid line or the suction line with the system off to avoid the oil blow out problem? Wouldn't gas or liquid refrigerant flow into a recovery bottle if you cooled the bottle? No recovery machine, just the bottle in my question.

[@booshiet]

Can you convert empty propane tank into refrigerant recovery tank? How? Thanks

[@acservicetechchannel]

We only use pressure tested, certified, dual port recovery cylinders and they really don't cost that much. The safety pressure rating and hydrostatic test is a big thing, thanks!

[@OcRefrig]

Not legally or safely ! Propane tanks aren't designed for R-410a pressures. No supply house will take a modified propane in for cylinder exchange. Bad idea ! Go buy a used tank off ebay if your on a budget.

[@booshiet]

Thank you for advices

[@jimmyaustria4019]

Feed my mind. Thank you very much!

[@ajmobilemastertechniciannu9427]

Can i do the same procedure on a car?

[@stuzman52]

Excellent video Craig and you laid out the steps very well. Hope you and the family have a great weekend! 😀👍

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thank you very much Stuzman! I appreciate it!

[@Babysoft]

Craig, what are the steps after you are done pulling out the right amount of refrigerant? What valves do you close first and how do you make sure to dump the refrigerant in the lines back into the unit? Thanks!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Shut the handle to the recovery tank, turn the manual low loss fitting to the off position on the red hose connected to the high side liquid line. Open the red handle. Then charge the refrigerant slowly back into the system with the blue gauge handle until the red gauge is at the same pressure as the blue gauge. Don't charge it in too fast because you want to protect the compressor from liquid or saturated refrigerant entering in, thanks!

[@Babysoft]

@@acservicetechchannel Excellent! Thank you! I know this procedure was part of another video somewhere, but the ACSERVICETECH library is starting to get kind of big! :)

[@tejonBiker]

Thanks for the info, very informative

[@acservicetechchannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bambam178801]

Great video

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot BamBam!

[@TonyNanni]

Hey Craig, excellent presentation. I am going to buy your book. I just have a question about those hoses. They don't have check valves in them, correct? So they just have the schraeder depressor but no check valve. You have to use the valve to close off the hose and make them manual operation low loss. A true low loss would have the check valve so for example when you empty the nitrogen charge after a pressure test you would have to disconnect the yellow hose at the manifold. You wouldn't be able to just blow it out the end as you do in a video. Is all this correct? I like the idea of the valve at the end of the hoses like the yellow jacket ones you use and link, but I would rather buy the JB hose set you also link. The JB hose set is totally different with check valves in the ends of the hose as far as I can tell from the description. I think they are also better quality from reading the reviews. Can you just clarify on the hoses.

[@peterdarlington4117]

Good video got a question if you put the recovery cylinder into a bucket of ice water how much of a systems charge do you think you could get without using a recovery machine?

[@costi08]

Can the recovered refrigerant be reused?

[@cafenightster4548]

No, it might have been compromised and may have been contaminated. Its much easier to use new refrigerant and you'll have less problems down the road.

[@watcherwatchmen7785]

As long as it has the same pressure and ambient temperature that the refrigerant is rated for, of course you can re-use it! He just showed how by hooking up a gauge to the tank. Re-watch at the 2:30 mark where he mentions this. Do you think he'd add refrigerant to his almost full tank only to never use it?

[@fukashima6586]

@@watcherwatchmen7785 Not legal here unless equipment is for the same owner. In practice, many will save R22 and use it to top off junky leaking units. Again, not legal.

[@ДенисФдр]

Hello Mr Craig. When we recover Refrigerant this way, dont't we also take some oil out of the system?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Yes oil does come out with the liquid so this is only used to adjust the charge a little only and not for recovering a lot of refrigerant- I made this video to compare recovery procedures- kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4mtf6iDoqqDpck

[@jericosha2842]

@@acservicetechchannel good to know.

[@frankevans588]

Hey Craig, my book came in and I am loving it!!! some really good info in it

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Frank! We are looking for individuals to review the book on amazon if you were willing? The link for the book is through amazon.com/shop/acservicetech and reviews are accepted on amazon even if the book was purchased at the website. Once again thanks a lot and I am glad that you are enjoying it!

[@jimmyjohnboy9618]

@@acservicetechchannel hey Graig, got my book and I'm really enjoying it. I'm also enjoying all the videos that you have done. A different note, We have a 20year old Carrier 38YXA030300 (13 SEER??) that is giving us a problem. Delta=20, Subcooling=12 (name plate=9 should be + or -3), Refig=410A with TXV, Superheat,=12, EvapTemp=41, cooling @ floor register=55.8, outside=80, inside =76. Now the problem after the unit reaches set temp at thermostat (76) the unit kicks off, but will not come back on even if the house is 80 degrees inside (no matter what I put the temp at) until I turn off A/C Heatpump 30 Amp beaker for about 1 hour. I can then turn it back on and it will run until reaching set temp of 76. I then have to repeat the above steps again. What do you think is causing this problem? Thanks for any help, Jimmy

[@allanbrito13]

@@jimmyjohnboy9618 could be a bad thermostat

[@MikeSmith-og5mg]

Excellent video!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks Mike!

[@michaelcostello6991]

Can you recover all the refrigerant using this method ? If you wanted to decommission a system

[@Casal70]

No. But like 75% very fast. LP will cut. Or just stop pumping, please shut system down when the scale is telling you that refrigerant is not going into the cylinder in a resonable speed.

[@michaelcostello6991]

@@Casal70 thanks

[@acestu]

Great Stuff Craig !

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Stuart!

[@rcinfla9017]

This can be done but you will expel up to about 3-5% of system oil during the process. 3-5% oil loss is not a big deal but just don't repeat the process several times as the oil loss will be cumulative. Normally 6-10% of initial compressor oil charge is distributed throughout the system, mostly in evaporator, if not a reverse cycle unit with accumulator that will store a few oz's of the oil. About 2-3% of the initial compressor oil charge will be sucked up in the motor stator windings wire, like a sponge, after compressor has been run for a while. In recover tank, POE oil will float on top of liquid R410A so liquid charging from recovery tank will re-inject R410a without the oil.

[@movietime111]

see that you use external digital micron gauge, do you not trust the micron vacuum gauge on your sman?

[@acservicetechchannel]

I like to have the vacuum gauge as close the the system as possible and during the standing vacuum test not have the hoses holding the vacuum, thanks!

[@MJ-iy4fb]

Do you always zip tie the charging scale display to the coil?

[@acservicetechchannel]

No that was for the video. It usually just sits in its location in the grey carry case and I read it from there, thanks!

[@melvinaquino652]

Hi I always watch your videos.and I love it very much. my question is when you recover refrigerant direct from the system for sure there would be an oil coming out together with the refregirant. How would that affect the refregirant in your recovery tank. For sure they are the same r22 but will it affect for later use?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks Melvin and great question! This method is only for adjusting the charge and not for recovery of large amounts of refrigerant. Through the EPA 608 rules to avoid cross contamination of acid and impurities, we only use the same refrigerant in a unit that we originally recovered from that unit unless we are putting virgin refrigerant in. In order to do this, we use an empty and vacuumed bottle to start off with. We are also allowed to put that refrigerant in another unit owned by the same individual. If you were concerned with oil getting into the other system, you could charge from your recovery bottle as a vapor so only the refrigerant at the top of the recovery bottle exits. Anyway this method is only used to adjust a charge and is not done as often as the recovery machine procedure, thanks!

[@petesingh292]

Just a quick question so you did not use recovery machine just let the unit run and recover the liquid refrigerant ?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Yes but you would only do this to adjust a refrigerant charge, not recovery large amounts of refrigerant because it will remove the oil from the system which could damage the compressor, thanks!

[@bkoz319]

Do you always recover using the red port? what is the blue port used for?

[@bkoz319]

anyone?

[@Casal70]

@@bkoz319 No, colors can be mixed between manufactures, there is no standard. So please read on the valve. One is vapor, the other is liquid. Text on the valves referring to a standing tank. If you turn it upside down, you invert the texts. Liquid side has a tube to the bottom in the tank, the other has not to catch vapor.

[@Swenser]

What's the advantage of using a recovery machine . If you go slow and cool the bottle with ice, shouldn't ever be a problem, yes, no?

[@leonardarch3092]

what was the initial call out for

[@acservicetechchannel]

This one is just a teaching example at the shop, thanks! This would be as if the unit is overcharged on a pm call

[@mrgreen2646]

Awesome video thanks for sharing.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot Purple Giraffe!

[@scsclassics]

This method is ok for metering small amounts of r22 or 410a . But if you want to fully recover a unit I wouldn't personally use this method as he states . What kills me is the people that fully open the gages when recovering freon right at the start .That just kills the recovery machine causing it to overheat and fail .You should recover small amounts at a time or slowly open your gages when recovering this way it doesnt bog the recovery and cause it to overheat sending large amounts at once to the tank .

[@حسين-ج9ط7ي]

بارك الله فيك اخي عمل رائع

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thank you very much!

[@pedrojardim1163]

thanks very very much for the help u giving has around world with this vidios

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks Pedro!

[@Zhen-Lin-CHN]

What gloves do you use? That look like welding gloves.

[@stevelovesgod]

Zhen Lin CHN Regular goatskin gloves he has on

[@acservicetechchannel]

You can wear butyl gloves, I often where leather gloves on the outside that have the shiny layer on the outside, thanks

[@acoustic4037]

These are great videos for newbies however it always amazes me when people are stuck in the Dark Ages with analog gauges. I love my sman, and the isolation valve to the refrigerant hose as well as the vacuum port on the manifold because then when I am done I can get all (almost all technically) of the refrigerant out of my liquid side hose bye taking it out of the high side and letting it go back into the low side through the gauge manifold block before unhooking.

[@christopherlaborde1670]

Hi Craig, Is there an email I can write out a more difficult question to you? Also, Just bought your book and have been watching your videos. All are extremely well laid out and clear! Thank YOU!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thanks a lot, I answer questions here and through email. I try to spend more time with the patrons at patreon.com/acservicetech since they are supporting but I do try to answer everyones' questions. There are a lot that come in, thanks and lets here the question. [e-mail]

[@christopherlaborde1670]

I'm now a patron! (and have written my question to you) Thank you!

[@bambam178801]

What is the method on checking other types of refrigerants in the drum with the outside ambient,like you did on R22

[@acservicetechchannel]

If you talking R-410A , you would check the pink inner ring for the saturated temperature. You could use a p/t chart or p/t app such as the Danfoss slider and convert the pressure to a saturated temp, thanks!

[@truthsmiles]

4:35 - If I messed up and connected to the vapor side of the recovery tank instead, what problems would that cause?

[@dunckeroo1987]

No problem You would still be going down hill. It would matter when a recovery pump is used to push and pull , then it would be bass ackwarks.

[@acrepairnearme]

Great video! Super detailed explanation. That's what I like. Thank you.!!! One question, if the customer's air filter is clogged, I usually remove it before checking or charge. And I I don't have a replacement filter I run the system without an air filter? Can I do that? Will it affect higher superheat on my readings?

[@acservicetechchannel]

There is not much else you can do if you don't have the right filter but on a system with a piston, removing the filter temporarily could lead to a higher superheat due to a higher amount of airflow across the coil. The only thing is just to try to have more air filter sizes in the truck. Also different filters will have different -pressure drops across them so it is always best to check the charge when you have the same filter that they always run in the system. Make sure the filter is in when you leave and that a fresh one is coming very soon, thanks Tapch MC!

[@acrepairnearme]

@@acservicetechchannel Ok thank you for respond.

[@OcRefrig]

i don't agree with removing refrigerant from a Running system via liquid line. i Have found that alot of oil ends up being removed from the system and ends up in your recovery tank. Not good !!! on Systems u cant check the oil level on. This is a Good way to Loose a compressor !!!. Shut the System down & recover is a better alternative. Just my 2 cents. i've only been doing this 38 years.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Hey OC, I agree that this would remove a little more oil than a standard recovery but it will not be that much when removing a small amount of refrigerant. The oil is still through the whole system in the vapor and liquid side. While the system is running, the oil is up off the bottom of the tubing and mixed more than when it is off but if you are only taking a little bit of refrigerant out then it will not be much oil loss. This method using the compressor is also discussed in the EPA 608 test with multiple questions about it so I want new techs to know about what it is talking about, thanks!

[@OcRefrig]

i Just wanted People to know that oil iS removed from the system doing it this way & oil is NOT Removed from a system when recovering a charge from a standing system / a system that is not running. You Have become a teacher in this industry & people need to be aware that problems can arrive after doing this and some people may abuse this procedure leading to more problems and a tech wondering why after his service did the compressor die a week later. in this video you make No mention of Not abusing this procedure by removing total system charges this way etc.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Yes I would not want anyone to try to recover a large amount of refrigerant from a system using the compressor method especially if they want to use the system again. This was just a video for adjusting a charge using the systems compressor to recover some and is really the only time I use this method or show to use this method. It is rare for sure compared to using the recovery machine. I added a note in the description. It certainly is a good topic to address though. I will see about doing a comparison between the two methods and why and when they are used, thanks OC! All good stuff! We don't want anyone running ahead and thinking this can be used for whole system charges or recovering large amounts of refrigerants. Thanks!

[@OcRefrig]

👍. Yea, i could see people abusing this procedure , Blowing total system charges into recovery tanks and wondering why the compressor quit a week later.

[@acservicetechchannel]

All good, thanks for you input!

[@geniusliu143]

hi craig . question, Low and High Side Pressure the Same= 125psig , and suction line and liquid line both read 70 temp . this is a heat pump, is this a bad compressor ?

[@acservicetechchannel]

If the high side and the low side pressures are matching then it is likely the compressor is not running. Maybe turn the power off and check the capacitor to start, thanks!

[@geniusliu143]

AC Service Tech LLC compressor is power on , but just not pumping,capacitor is good also I try kick start but still not pumping. I think need to change compressor. Thank u so much

[@acservicetechchannel]

One of the electrical windings may be open if you turned the power off and tested the resistance values of the compressor. I did a couple videos on testing the compressor, reading resistance values, and determining start, run, and common taps. Ok thanks for letting me know!

[@lelmus3277]

OMG!! Water and R22 don't weigh the same. You need to 1st calculate the ratio difference and that value is used to calculate the 80% and then you add the tare weight. Please use the online hvac fill calculators for each refrigerant before you hurt yourself.