Red Hood Has A Point

[@-AirKat-]

There’s something really satisfying about Joker not even getting to finish a single sentence

[@dr.ivorobotnik8910]

No

[@vasilismodieginyana7855]

Yeah no bro you're just wrong. This mf joker should be sent off to the sun

[@venomfan2020]

He doesn't deserve the priveledge

[@XDrotkon]

I genuinely love it

[@Story_girl144]

Agreed

[@rdzu834]

The whole time they were arguing, Joker was probably thinking “he’s actually got a point.”

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@rdzu834 “Y’know what, maybe I should get killed.”

[@epicslayerguy99]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductionsI mean, there are some versions of Joker that want nothing more than to get Batman to kill him, because it means he (the Joker) wins, by getting Batman to break his own moral code

[@agreeableWitch]

​@@epicslayerguy99 which is, I think, only a win that exists because Bruce is so against it. If he suddenly was like "you know what, joker needs to die and I was wrong. I'm completely fine with doing that that and I believe this is the logical and moral action" what's joker gonna do with that. He loses forever. He'd probably get depressed and just stop

[@christopherfleetwood5252]

@@agreeableWitchHe’d join the DMV is what

[@boydixonentertainment]

@@agreeableWitchHe’d probably still consider it a win as long as he’s the reason Batman decides to go against his morals.

[@isengarde9490]

I do like that Red Hood explicitly targets murderers, and states that he doesn't even bother with shoplifters or petty thieves. Adds a bit of flavor to remind us that this guy was dirt poor growing up.

[@wolfyblackknight8321]

literal survival crimes are more excusable then the people he goes after I mean I assume someone shoplifting food and water are just trying to survive that's more an economy problem

[@papanurgle8393]

@@wolfyblackknight8321 Exactly! Crimes done out of material desperation are generally a consequence of the system failing people and usually don't involve anyone actually getting hurt. Sure it sucks for the store owner, but unless the shop-lifting is so rampant that we've escalated to looting, or it turns into literal armed robbery, it's not exactly a "disaster" scenario. Murder, rape, organized criminal enterprises though are extant dangers for everyday citizens, and if you're involved in multiple homicides... you gotta go one way of another😅

[@gameover9390]

In the Film, when he takes over the Cartels trading in Drugs and Guns, he explicitly states to them “Stay away from kids and schoolyards”.

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Even bank robbers arent that bad They just need the money

[@CompletelyNewguy]

Yeah sometimes it’s not even out survival, it could be someone that’s just being a delinquent. While bad he’s got bigger fish to fry and he’s not gonna kill someone over a candy bar or something.

[@MasterChef1957]

"A rapist is a rapist, and a rapist is target practice" 😂😂😂

[@broly2316]

He ain't wrong

[@dragonoverdrive6859]

​@@broly2316facts

[@autisticallyartistic5882]

Words to live by.

[@StarboyXL9]

I wonder if you apply that same logic to women to seduce underage boys...nah ofc not that'd be sexist or smthn

[@Luxembourgish]

In the past decade the meaning of rape has been diluted, don't know if its use on social media is the same as the crime of forcing someone in a back alley.

[@inky5574]

Reminder Joker also paralyzed and stripped Barbara Gordon and took pictures of her while she was nude and bleeding as part of his plan to get Commissioner Gordon to go crazy and lose his moral code. Yeah Jason has a point.

[@Dunge0n]

And Jim still didn't kill him. What a cuck.

[@Shintigercurl]

also, it didn't work. jim resisted and after batman saved him, he said to stop joker but do it by the book.

[@maicoxmauler2825]

​@@Shintigercurl Also after Jason died Batman tried to pummel Joker to death but Jim threatened to kill Bruce if he crossed that line. So really it's all Jim's fault.

[@ravengray3095]

@@maicoxmauler2825I thought Nightwing pummeled Joker and Batman resuscitated him

[@Shintigercurl]

@@maicoxmauler2825 because he knows if batman killed him, the joker would win. that's why joker does what he does: to break the batman. and jim knows this.

[@TheLegendex]

For me, the biggest point to Jasons argument was when he said, I’m not talking about killing penguin or scarecrow or Dent just him I believe that shows that even Jason thinks some of those guys are redeemable, but Joker’s just on another level

[@thienbaongo7997]

A little aside, I believe he did end up going after Penguin to try and kill him in the comics later. (I don't know the context.) Maybe Penguin did do something REALLY bad, but so much for "I'm not talking about killing Penguin..."

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

@@thienbaongo7997 To be completly fair on "I'm not talking about killing Penguin", he's a mob boss and history has shown that taking out a major power in a crime network leads to chaos. Also the fact that Penguin CAN be reasoned with is a factor.

[@gameover9390]

Scarecrow just needs to be locked up in an actual Prison, Penguin is a case for the FBI. And Dent needs actually help, preferably in a secure mental facility that miles away from Gotham

[@BaronRodney]

​@@justinn8541akaDrPokemonYeah penguins one of the few iconic criminals who isn't mentally ill but just wants to be accepted as a powerful and important man. He's ostracized from other powerful socialites for his appearance however so he turns to crime to make himself known. Idk I feel like batman and penguin could be good friends as both know the frustration of not having something they desperately want. Penguin and his social status, Batman and his desire to stop crime.

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

The only major Batman villains I’d say are completely unredeemable are Joker, Professor Pyg, and Zsasz. Victor Zsasz is probably well aware that what he is doing is “wrong” but he enjoys what he does and is completely numb to everything else. Joker knows that he is evil and absolutely LOVES it. Pyg is so delusional that he thinks he’s saving people when he does his horrific experiments, and I don’t think he could ever change from this delusion. Maybe Black Mask too. That guy’s a straight up sadist.

[@VTsiFanfic]

Imagine being transferred to the Gotham swat team and your first week you see the joker gunning people down so you put half a mag in him. Everyone looks shocked in disbelief. Then a crazy guy dressed as a bat puts you in the hospital and you lose your job and freeze to death that winter.

[@painvillegaming4119]

Bruce has a problem when it heros vigilante or criminals he was willing to let Jim kill the joker like twice

[@brendenhawley2225]

Than the Joker shows up, with devil horns, because he got kicked out of hell. Because honestly did you think hell was a good enough prison for the joker.

[@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302]

Lets be real, the problem with batman isnt his no-killing rule. Batman is just a PG hero based around rehabilitation and second chances on life, that bad writers keep forcing into R-rated stories against people that crossed the very peaks of depravity with kill counts of biblical proportions.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302 honestly, it does kinda start to feel like that. Problem with Batman’s no kill rule isn’t necessarily the fact that it’s wrong, it’s the fact that it’s in the wrong environment. Gotham is easily one of if not DC’s most crime ridden cities, with a bunch of maniacs who walk free due to an insanity plea. Sparing everyone and hoping they learned a lesson will not work.

[@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions exactly. Like I understand why the writers constantly have the rogues break out and roam free. Golden rule of comics and what-not. But the real issue is that the writers make the rogues more and more deplorable as time goes on. So batman who never evolves passed his depiction from btas is up against lunatics that make Billy Kincaid look saintly. Also respect for actually going through a talking with almost every commenter. Mad props

[@Daniel_Ben_Avraham]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions basically brasil lmao

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302 Thank you! I’ve always made an effort to reply to my comments, it’s fun discussing stuff with you guys!

[@KinotheHedgehog]

For me it's not the rule that's the problem. It's the fact writers will have Bruce attack OTHER people for not also subscribing to his same code. I can understand that he'd snap from killing the Joker, he's already messed up in the head and the Joker is WAY too personal of a hit for him not to go off the edge. So I get that he chooses not to kill the Joker, but its the fact he'd stop OTHERS like Jason, Punisher, or Huntress from killing him as well that pisses me off about the whole "No Killing" thing. Just because Batman chooses to be a symbol of hope that refuses to take a life, doesn't mean other vigilantes have to follow his code.

[@JYang0602]

“A Rapist is a Rapist, and a Rapist is Target Practice” Ne’er have their been truer words lmaooo

[@oriongear2499]

Rapists are based if they’re going after women only.

[@abstraction6212]

A Chomo is the biggest target.

[@Spookys160]

@@abstraction6212 Chomo?

[@aiiv7839]

@@Spookys160 Prison slang for child molestor.

[@pbaiao2312]

@@abstraction6212 truuuuuuuuue

[@RobCrowley85]

Jason: Jesus Christ, Bruce Joker: "Bruce"? 😂

[@Mysterious_Chaos_Wolf]

I’m pretty sure in most current continuities it’s assumed that Joker knows who all the bats are and keeps the secret because he wants to keep up the game with Batman

[@bob1986]

@@Mysterious_Chaos_Wolf While Joker wouldn't expose him because he doesn't really care who Batman is he would attack his friends and loved ones to hurt him.

[@Mysterious_Chaos_Wolf]

@@bob1986 yea that’s true he did use it in death of the family

[@redtexan7053]

Batman won't just not kill the Joker, he won't let anyone else do it either. Fun fact, Nightwing quite literally beat the Joker to death with his bare hands when he'd thought that he killed Tim. Batman resuscitated him.

[@Indigo_1001]

Batman doesnt want people he cares about to lose themselves in killing people He would have no issue if a cop or civilian killed the joker

[@dennisbeaman958]

​@@Indigo_1001in one comic joker got the death sentence batman only saved him because joker was framed he was actually willing to let joker die if he actually did the crime he got the death sentence for

[@dr.nostalgia526]

@@dennisbeaman958how has joker not already gotten the death sentence after the hundreds of acts of domestic terrorism he has knowingly committed?

[@TheChocoboRacer]

@@dr.nostalgia526Because DC is too lazy to give actual nuance to a character, and Batman/Joker fanboys jack off over some imaginary "dichotomy" between the Joker and the Batman. One is insane and the other one is traumatized. That's it. No, Batman will not become like the joker after one bad day, clearly he can sleep like a baby at night after Joker makes 3 dozen wives into windows, but killing a psychopath who has tried to nuke cities before is going too fucking far.

[@RandomGuy_368]

​@@dr.nostalgia526 In some comics it states that Bruce lobbied against the death penalty

[@lucifermagne7458]

The biggest issue with Batman isn't his no killing rule, it's Batman's refusal to let anyone else kill. Like Bruce, not everyone is an insane psychopath like you, they aren't gonna kill one person and never stop

[@Indigo_1001]

But he IS ok being allies with those that kill. He had a relationship with Talia, who is part of the league of ASSASSINS. He is also allies with Wonder Woman that kills. He JUST doesn’t want people working under him to kill. That’s the difference. Why do ya’ll that never read comic books care so much about comic book characters

[@lucifermagne7458]

@@Indigo_1001 I read them. And it varies from writer to writer. Many times you're right, sometimes I'm right. Comic books are very inconsistent with this stuff, so neither of us is wrong. There's no need to be a dick

[@krombopulosmicheal2436]

There was a comic where he stopped punisher from killing joker. He's not under Batman. So yeah he does stop people from killing that aren't under him. That is annoying. I thought you said you read comics. So quick to judge others yet​ you quickly fall into the same category hmm....@@Indigo_1001

[@Indigo_1001]

@@lucifermagne7458 If you read comics why did you wrote that Batman is never ok for working with people that kill when he works with the police that sometimes need to kill criminals. Like Gordon

[@lucifermagne7458]

@@Indigo_1001 I didn't say he was never okay with it, I said I hate it when he refuses to let others kill. Just cause he's fine with it sometimes, doesn't make it okay when he's not fine with it

[@jamilzayas5808]

Jason should've mentioned Alfred. He's allowed to kill

[@ASingleSpaghetti]

Alfred punched Nazis in WW2, he has EARNED that right

[@ZX-Gear]

@ASingleSpaghetti I say Joker is as bad as Hitler. Hot Take.

[@ASingleSpaghetti]

@@ZX-Gear Hiter is actually worse than the Joker, because unlike the Joker, Hitler was a real person who did actual war crimes lol.

[@Indigo_1001]

Not all version. Many version of Alfred is the one that pushed Bruce to not kill, to keep the humanity in him.

[@loliver9660]

I mean Alfred is former British armed forces and MI6. He's probably killed people already, and honestly, Bruce couldn't stop him even if he wanted to. The man really can't function without him.

[@sirdarkon4517]

i still wonder why villain in Gotham just dont get death penalty. like seriously how many innocent has died already? Is Bruce Wayne lobbying?

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@sirdarkon4517 yeah, actually. In some comic storylines, I believe Bruce actually lobbied against the death penalty, and it worked. Bruce is literally getting more people killed with his backwards ideology 😐

[@Hei_Darkfire]

Most of the major villains in Gotham seem to be insane, so they may get the insanity plea (Hence why they end up at Arkham instead of prison).

[@jlablue3401]

Joker has actually been given the death penalty before. He just came back to life so the status quo could remain. It's the same reason they don't give him the death penalty again, why he's come back to life numerous other times (even when Batman HAS killed him) and why no heroes will kill him anymore.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions This isn’t true, not only the vast majority of interpretations not show Bruce doing this but I really cannot find any source of a coming where Bruce does it. You have a source for this

[@ztyran]

Sadly, they'd have to prove that Gotham criminals are sane before they can get the death penalty. And as such, most don't qualify.

[@AmirPrinceling]

This movie made Batman's code look worse by making out as if Batman wouldn't be able to control himself if he ever killed even once. This scene was very difference in the comics. His rule was always based on how he believes life is sacred, and also the fact his father was a surgeon. It's admirable to try so hard to give people chances for redemption, yet the comic writers would rather make villains stay as evil as possible and not make it possible for them to change, which makes Batman's code look futile.

[@navi0760]

More people need to know this. The movie totally screwed with the logic, which makes it seem like Bruce is some maniac deep down. A lot of people don’t know that Bruce stopped being “vengeance” a long time ago and has been trying to be a symbol of hope for Gotham. Hope that a city can change and be better by being the bigger person. In a perfect world comics would be allowed to progress a lot more than they are now.

[@InitialPC]

one of my favorite batman moments was serious house on serious earth where dent had his coin replaced with cards to make decisions, at the end he is given his coin back and the inmates defer to his coin flip as to whether they should kill batman or let him go, after flipping the coin the decision is made to spare him and let him go, after he leaves we find out the coin said for them to kill batman but dent opted to decide against the result and let him go anyway

[@anxiousearth680]

"Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer." -Javik, Mass Effect It's all well and good to treat life as sacred. But what of the hundreds the Joker has killed? Aren't their lives sacred too? And the lives he continues to threaten. Aren't their lives sacred? It's not even about revenge. The Joker is a threat that no prison can contain. So must be stopped permanently.

[@Sanbaddy]

I always agreed with Jason’s logic. More accurately that Batman needs to acknowledge his flaws and hypocrisy.

[@Indigo_1001]

Isn’t Red Hood the actual hypocrite because he kills so many nameless villains and people that don’t matter. But never ever kills anyone important, like the joker?

[@Sanbaddy]

@@Indigo_1001 He tried to kill The Joker. He had a backup plan with explosives and everything. Batman is the one who saved the Joker.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@Sanbaddy Where does Jason tries to kill the joker? He had joker at gun point, Batman was walking away nothing was going to stop him. Watch the scene again, when Jason activates the bomb Batman punches Joker and goes to Jason to rescue him. He doesn’t try to save the joker at all. And even after that why doesn’t Jason try to kill the joker later on or any other continuity of the story. Because he is a massive hypocrite that only kills nameless henchmen but never anyone that matters.

[@Sanbaddy]

@@Indigo_1001 Fair point. He does at least *try* and kill Black Mask though. He comes pretty dang close too. Though it can be argued it was more a threat since it was about breaking Joker out. I choose to believe both. Either way you’re definitely right. Jason sight of the mission near the end. I guess he was hoping more than Batman killed him. He wanted redemption more than his justice. Still better than Batman, but not the best Red Hood he could be.

[@knightsblight]

@Indigo_1001 last time red hood tried to kill joker batman took him in last second. He won't let him finish the kill.

[@ПетрПетров-о6ъ9н]

This is why I like Invincible. Mark is no Batman, but he's no Punisher either. He's not going to kill Powerplex or Universa, but there's no way he'd stick Thragg or Conquest into Space Arkham after everything they've done. There's nuance.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@ПетрПетров-о6ъ9н that kind of hero is the best one. Red Hood is also a pretty good middle ground I feel, he’s not quite punisher level, but he can get a little close depending on the writer. Generally though, I prefer heroes who while they don’t like to kill, they will if it’s for the greater good.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

Punisher can be great depending on who writes him but he's conflicting

[@BenjaminIzquierdo-nb6tq]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions like Spider-Man

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@BenjaminIzquierdo-nb6tq exactly

[@Indigo_1001]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions But Jason Red Hood doesn’t kill anyone of importance Isn’t he the bigger hypocrite since he kill random henchmen and very low level villains but never anyone that matters? Never the joker

[@Lakeside_Flower]

Batman: I won’t kill, Jason! Jason: Okay, okay, I’m not unreasonable. Let’s find a compromise. *breaks Joker’s spine*

[@XoraNo13]

"A rapist is target practice." I fucking lost it. 🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀

[@StarboyXL9]

Would you apply that same logic to older women who seduce underage boys I wonder? Or do you only desire violence against men?

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@StarboyXL9 uh yeah. I would? Why even ask this question lol

[@lvoryRose]

Where'd the comment go?​@@TheUnknownGruntProductions

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@lvoryRose idk, they must’ve deleted it. They were saying some random shit about how “if the rapist was a woman, would you still care, or do you just despise men?”. Random shit that has basically nothing to do with the video nor the comment,

[@cyl_genderfluid-furry]

I like how instead of just having Jason shoot Joker like that one collab with Solid JJ and someone else did, you actually showed how Batman's plan would work.

[@kamenrideruniter4503]

I... thought he'd dodge

[@Eggrhhff]

How the hell would he have dodged a bullet?

[@TheBlackSeraph]

Yeah, I love Under the Red Hood, but that scene of him being able to dodge a bullet being shot at him from behind was pushing suspension of disbelief even by Batman standards.

[@WeAreTheDraiken]

@@TheBlackSeraph Bro you need to read comics . Batman Dodges bullets like all the time. He literally says he can see them in slow motion , like he can almost pluck them out of the air.

[@newmobils8294]

​@@WeAreTheDraiken No he can he dodge before they hit trigger I don't care about illogical feats

[@NathanielReynolds-fq7bi]

Piccolo just starts screaming in the background

[@brandonbyrd1307]

The problem with Red Hood is that he makes way too much sense, that writers have to break their necks backwards to convince me he’s wrong.

[@Tomhortone]

Thats why most of the time they write him with (mental issues)

[@brendenhawley2225]

I mean it pretty easy to make him make no sense by using the cardboard prison. Just have him kill every villian that ever existed, than have all the villians break out of hell having picked up demonic powers for the next cross over event. Because I am not sure killing them will last longer than a good prison in comic book setting,

[@Juanle99]

Joker also set off a nuclear bomb in Metropolis And surgically planted the trigger in Lois Lanes chest… Edit: guys I know it’s injustice timeline and iscompletely separate

[@velorii]

Atleast superman killed him for that lol

[@sherryelder9511]

Batman:to be fair lois is Supermans problem.

[@CorvoThan]

seriously what CANT this clown do? Just imagine what he could archieve would he use that skil for anything else

[@bulbafett5001]

THat's Injustice, not mainline. They assassinate pretty much everyone's characters in there. Fun guilty read.

[@CenoriaWoah]

⁠​⁠@@Juanle99 That’s insane. Most mainline comics aren’t mainline accurate aha. Superman’s writing is awful in Injustice and nothing like him, while Wonder Woman also just isn’t remotely herself.

[@iamcat1797]

Red hood: what would Joker have to do to warrant you killing him? Batman: it would have to be insanely unforgivable. Me: you want that list in alphabetical order or an order from least to worse?

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@iamcat1797 either way, it’s gonna take a while lol

[@iamcat1797]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions yeah. Hell I can’t even remember every single one he’s done so much.

[@Indigo_1001]

I find it funny how ya’ll criticize Batman for not killing the joker when Red Hood is equally responsible for not killing the joker as well. At least Batman has a reason, what’s Red Hood reason for not killing the joker in any story?

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@Indigo_1001 maybe it has something to do with Batman always trying to stop him when Jason wants to? 🤨

[@Indigo_1001]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions That’s not true at all. Batman isn’t surveying joker 24/7, what’s stopping Red Hood to bust into the Asylum and kill the joker there or just kill the joker where he is hiding Even in Under the Red Hood movie he had Joker at gun point and Batman just walks away, essentially allowing Jason to Kill joker, he wasn’t going to stop him. He only stopped him when Jason Shot at Batman. Red Hood is the bigger hypocrite for never even attempting to kill the joker

[@demarralrobinson2530]

So what you’re saying is is you don’t have self control

[@Slowpoke3x]

He wears a bat costume,punches bad guys, and does various other unhealthy activities. Mental stability isn't his strong suit. His code keeps that thin line of morality on the level. If he doesn't indulge in pure vengeance, then he still can have the benefit of the doubt he is a hero. He is not an unbreakable paragon. He is a madman walking on thin line of a hero.

[@Mysterious_Chaos_Wolf]

Yup that’s exactly what he’s saying

[@eustass4491]

Yea that was kinda of the point of that speech in red hood lmao, Bruce is kinda insane when you really look at it

[@xaevius5319]

@@Slowpoke3x then get a therapist and stop being a vigilante then. you don't get a pass for not killing because you can't handle it but at the same time you still would like to be a guy dressed up as a bat stalking criminals. that's having your cake and eating it too.

[@frogglen6350]

"Adolf Hitler" Dang. Jason won the argument by just dropping that name

[@laitofangirl5805]

Sooooo….if you kill a person who loves to torture and eat babies, you’ll suddenly transform from the nicest person on the planet to a person who has to make babies suffer and eat them …according to Batman.

[@CaptainPrincess]

no the point is that hes already not nice batman is not a nice person and hes completely insane the trick is he KNOWS that so he has all his rules in place to prevent from going over the edge cause he knows how insane and not nice he is deep down it wouldnt be a transformation at all itd be letting a rabid dog off a leash hes already a rabid dog he just has a leash on himself

[@Indigo_1001]

@@CaptainPrincess These people don’t care about knowing or understanding the character of Batman. It’s so annoying If they don’t care why even bright sharing their dumb uninformed opinion on it

[@CaptainPrincess]

@@Indigo_1001 hope springs eternal I used to be like them, not caring and smugly thinking I was smarter obvs a major part of my getting over that arrogance was growing up but also because actual fans who knew better took the time to talk to me and show me whats what so yeah youre probably right but that 1% chance is enough for me dont cost me much to try right :)

[@anxiousearth680]

​@@CaptainPrincess Then why not let other people do it? He actively stops others from doing the deed.

[@CaptainPrincess]

​@@anxiousearth680 probably thinks he can fix him idk

[@unclekarma1855]

The biggedt flaw in Todds logic is that he assumes Batman is mentally stable

[@Graywing]

He didn't even have to mention Hitler. He could've said Pablo Escobar.

[@StarboyXL9]

Che Guevara

[@ZX-Gear]

I mean most people know who the Austrian Painter is and yes. Joker is as bad as him.

[@YourDadsOnlyFan]

Or Epstein; I don't see any complaints about him *not* getting a trial and a 20-year joke of a sentence.

[@Ravensikkness]

Jason Todd is quite literally a great hero. His logic makes perfect sense.

[@Indigo_1001]

He is a great hero for killing dozens upon dozens of random henchmen for doing their jobs? Risking the life’s of innocent people by starting gang wars, but despite all that he NEVER kills anyone important. He never kills the joker in any canonical fashion in any comic, game or show. Not even in the movie above. So how is he a great hero?

[@thatoneguy9816]

@@Indigo_1001who stopped him?

[@briang3598]

​@Indigo_1001 "For doing their jobs"- ie, knowingly and without coercion, agreeing to being hired guns for murderous psychaths or the mob.

[@DreamersOfReality]

Could say the same about the cops, or any military.

[@anthoniosamms4215]

Everytime Batman starts by killing joker or any other criminal he starts to kill more and more and ends up doing some crazy things

[@otakuverse8545]

To be fair Jason has a fucking point its usually the anti heroes that some what seem more sane then some heroes. And awhile i agree the heroes throwing the people in jail is pointless but like why are they serving normal jail time instead being killed off do these villains have good lawyers or something because im sure some of them wouldve gotten the death penalty on the spot especially joker

[@almessasorrow4950]

Gotham is corrupt and crime is good for business. It's literally the equivalent to hell... Now that I think of it how would his kill rule apply In hell....

[@averageexistenceenjoyer3950]

I'm pretty sure Joker was executed at some point, but he just came back, and due to legal stuff they can't really do it again. For most of Batman's villains they're deemed criminally insane. For villains that aren't insane they're mostly (if not all) kept alive because of corrupt people pulling the strings to keep them alive.

[@Graywing]

​​​@@averageexistenceenjoyer3950 Even if they are criminally insane, after the crimes they commited after escaping Arkham, they would've been sent to a supermax prison. Like ADX Florence which also houses the criminally insane who like to escape. There's also criminals like Black Mask, Two Face and the Penguin who should be charged with RICO cases but somehow there are no federal agents in Gotham. Which is the biggest plothole in Batman comics.

[@averageexistenceenjoyer3950]

@@Graywing as said there are corrupt people (ex: Amanda Waller, The Court Of Owls, Lex Luthor, all the rich people) who benefit from keeping supercriminals out of the heavy duty prisons

[@somebodyigstolen]

@@averageexistenceenjoyer3950these are peanut level writing excuses so they can keep the most overrated piece of trash villians (aka joker) instead of coming up with new ideas, its just attraction to keep milking what ever sort of enjoyment people get out of watching the same villains over and over again, when there are so much great villains in the dc universe overshadowed by the rouges gallery( aka joker (again)).

[@qchtohere8636]

"You don't understand Jason... Sales department demands to keep him alive and running around."

[@filipvadas7602]

It always annoyed me that the nuance is kind of brushed aside in comics/superhero media like this. Yeah, some people are redeemable. Especially if they want to and just need help to do so. Hell, some of Batman's rogue's gallery has seen iterations where they have been redeemed or even totally turned their life around But a line has to drawn in the sand and Joker plays with that line like a jump rope. Jason killinf the Joker would literally be a net positive. I mean, what cop was going to arrest him for killing a sadistic, mass murdering psychopath? What judge and jury would in their right mind convict him? Justice is sometimes brutal. Deservingly so.

[@Maxinestabile]

I like how you say that, even though you’re pushing away the nuance of Batman’s character, you do realize that Batman having a character flaw doesn’t make him a bad character, right?

[@Indigo_1001]

Batman doesn’t kill the joker for the same reason Red Hood will never kill the joker. At least Bruce is consistent and doesn’t kill anyone. While Red Hood kills many nameless henchmen but never anyone that matters

[@Arman-tq4jq]

i mean, batman sends the people he beats to the court, the justice system of gotham should be the ones deciding to kill them

[@MorbiusBlueBalls]

​@@Arman-tq4jq well too bad criminals run the justice system in Gotham.

[@MrWr4ith]

The "Dude what?" Batman did made me laugh way too hard.

[@whothehorton660]

I love the idea that the joker would slowly gain a manifested bowl of popcorn and slowly eat it while watching these two talk.

[@boomstick7506]

I love how the epic music behind Batman is constantly being reset

[@shadowsonshadowson3929]

Nothing but facts coming from Jason here.

[@redninja3056]

No not really in real life he would have a point but Jason is actually an idiot here and doesn't know what he's talking about and neither do you

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@shadowsonshadowson3929 That’s what he specializes in lol

[@Sundeath41]

Spiderman: Bruce...I LITERALLY have the exact same code as you, and even *I* know you're a f**king lunatic to not kill the joker

[@misterorigin8087]

Jason could kill one person and that’s it. Same thing with Wonderwoman and even Superman. But Batman is different. He is genuinely insane, he came up with failsafes for the Justice League and dedicated his entire life to fighting crime by dressing up as a bat and beating up criminals with no superpowers. In his mind, he calls himself BATMAN, not Bruce. That is INSANE. Put killing on the table, and he WON’T stop. Some could say “That logic is CRAZY!” And that’s the point. Batman IS crazy.

[@Indigo_1001]

Batman calling himself that and not Bruce in the most interesting things about him. That Bruce is his mask and his real identity is the bat. Ya’ll that never open a comic in your life just don’t get it, so by he so opinionated on something you know nothing about

[@soarin64]

@@Indigo_1001 um that's what he just said

[@Shintigercurl]

and that's the beauty of it. batman knows he's not well in the head and doesn't trust himself to know when to stop or when he's gone too far.

[@aryoph9224]

See, that's kinda the problem, that he is crazy and knows it but doesn't do anything about it. If you know you have a problem and you didn't try to make yourself better from it, then your problem only stays. Bruce knows he is unstable and could very easily cross the line, but instead of taking a step back and trying to mend his fragile mind, he continues to put himself in situations where his mental state can deteriorate more and more. Like an addiction, he keeps going back to the same old harmful things that could destroy him, yet doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that he should stop and try to help himself for once. That's kinda my main problem with Batman and his writing, it used to be about hope and wanting be better and help Gotham be better. Now it's about how an emotionally unstable manchild goes around and beats people up who don't agree with him.

[@frogglen6350]

"I was only 12 years old!" "And?" lol

[@j-dawg4774]

"I mean... you knew the risks." Bruh 😂

[@Seek1878]

In Injustice Joker kills 11 million people with a nuke and Bruce was just going to put him back in Arkham.

[@elijahanderson3288]

Even though I believe more in restorative justice than punitive justice....yeah, he's on point.

[@PhinTheOx]

“A rapist is a rapist and a rapist is target practice”

[@Mysterious_Chaos_Wolf]

This all looks even worse when you think about the fact that in the comics Bruce threw the batarang at Jason’s neck and almost killed *him*

[@Shadowrider1032]

4:05 the tone in which Red Hood says that made me choke lmao.

[@demarralrobinson2530]

The joker irredeemable

[@multigatawny5204]

Now that canon Arkham Batman is ded(not), we should have Redhood Arkham games where he goes on revenge rampage

[@tigerlep9]

Jason: I was 12 Batman: and? LMFAOOOO

[@frogglen6350]

look you know what you signed up for

[@yaboig187]

Imo i feel like all this energy should be going towards gcpd cause your gonna tell me not a single cop decide to shoot any supervillain out of self defense its totally legal also i absolutely hate when dc uses the if i kill I'd never stop as a reason to why batman doesn't kill

[@radbman5932]

Not even dirty cops would do that for some reason. Joker in handcuffs, standing behind him. BANG! No more Joker.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@yaboig187 tbf to the GCPD, the literal only reason why they didn’t kill joker is because DC didn’t write in the cops shooting him. If this was real, joker would’ve been shot after his second plan or smth lmao

[@kyledeguzman165]

Batman stops other heroes from killing joker or any other villain every time he says He won’t kill anyone “but he doesn’t have to save them” and then acts like a punk when those heroes actually succeed in killing a mass murderer whilst also berating them instead of praising them for protecting the last of the innocent civilians that were alive.

[@ZX-Gear]

TheUnknownGruntProductions If the Gotham Cops were written realistically,we would have events play similarly to very recent cases of police brutality. Only difference is no one will riot or protest for The Joker.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@kyledeguzman165 This is so untrue. You are legit saying blatant misinformation

[@danielendless]

DC swears this is some rocket science level complication. What a joke

[@mythosinfinite6736]

When done correctly, I don't think this has to be seen as morally correct. Batman is unwell, in that he's been deeply traumatized and never had a childhood; "Bruce Wayne never left that alleyway," "Bruce Wayne died that night," etc. The morally correct thing is to kill the Joker, but Batman can't bring himself to do it, he always has an excuse. Maybe he's genuinely afraid that he'll snap, maybe that's irrational or rational. Maybe he even just loves the chase and hates to admit that. There could be plenty of reasons that he can justify it with, but never a "correct" one; he just can't. If there's any story that shows that sort of idea, I actually think it's Under the Red Hood. Specifically with Joker's line, "You found a way where nobody has to die and everyone loses." What Batman's doing is wrong, in that movie, and it expertly argues why it's wrong. ...Not that that's hard.

[@StarboyXL9]

@@mythosinfinite6736 This

[@Tyler_18_]

@@mythosinfinite6736Yeah I think he just doesn’t like killing, simple as that. I remember reading what Bill Finger said about Batman no killing rule being because his parents was kill in front of him, so it doesn’t feel right for him to do the same thing.

[@garo_borges9132]

​@@mythosinfinite6736 I totally agree, but the thing is that this scene makes It seams like Batman is right, when Batman dosent kill it isnt because of a character flaw that dosent allow him to do it, its because he is high and mighty. There is also the issue with Batman not letting anyone else kill the joker, like in this scene, why is he defending him? If he cant cross that line but Jason does, why is he figthing him? And why does the movie make it seam like he is right? And i know that police officers arent judges, and i know that Batman isnt someone who can chose the rigth of someone to live, but he does, all the time, by not killing the joker, someone who is beyond repentance or cure. And it's not hard to see that he must die, not even out of punishment, but because of the danger he represents and how he cant be contained any other way

[@redonyx5428]

@@Tyler_18_ batman has killed tho and im not talking about the early comics from the 40s. he straight up murdered kgbeast by making him starve to death but that got retconned. then he killed him again by leaving him for dead after he shot nightwing in the head. he also shoved a pile of cars onto a dude in a junkyard and he got crushed. hit hugo strange with his car. i think bruce is more than ok with murder as long as it's "out of sight, out of mind" and he could excuse it in a twisty mental way.

[@RainTheGamer2099]

Honestly this just tells me that Batman has no self control whatsoever

[@Indigo_1001]

Then the video was successful in manipulating you with there insane bullshit

[@thunderlion6909]

FR

[@nef36]

Bats really sitting here equating the value of Joker's life to his parents

[@Vigriff]

With the amount of people that die in Gotham, I'm nothing short of amazed that Gotham didn't become a ghost town.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@Vigriff why do people still live in Gotham? Are they stupid?

[@Vigriff]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions The poor and destitute I can somewhat understand, but those who are rich or otherwise well off have no excuse to do so.

[@mlgodzilla4206]

At some point, Batman has to see that some people don’t want to redeem themselves especially the likes of Joker. Keeping Joker and the likes of him alive just keep filling more graveyards. Can the people of Gotham really feel hope when the likes of Pyg are still out and about

[@fallenunit5189]

This exactly why I hate Batman’s inefficient methods, he’s extremely skilled and intelligent, but not intelligent enough to think of the countless of dead people because of him.

[@adambump5297]

He is though because I'm pretty sure Batman says "All the people I've murdered by letting you live" to the Joker at some point when they are both older and basically retired anyway main point is Batman knows that he's mentally unstable and if kills even once even if it's the Joker than he knows that he can't trust himself to be able to stop killing.

[@FFVogter.-em6zz]

He’s a broken man barely held together by his code. If he breaks it or god forbid he doesn’t and fall the world would wish for the Joker to win. Because too many people think that a Batman that kills a terror but a Batman that would cross lines that sicken people, good and bad alike without killing is the real nightmare. Think about it for a moment.

[@StarKaiser2]

Yeah that's why I like Michael Keaton Batman

[@harrisontownsend910]

​@adambump5297 He's also not judge, jury, or executioner. He's an officer of the law and justice it's the justice system's job to punish him. Batman's out there to save lives not make another orphan. In the (abridged) words of Daredevil "We have to prove our way works. If we kill them we just prove they're right."

[@Maxinestabile]

You do realize characters are supposed to be flawed right you don’t have to agree with all of their actions. Have you ever seen art before? Are you one of the people who thinks Rey is a good character?

[@The_Platinum_Realist]

Bruce can't really counter any argument to breaking his one rule when the context involves Joker. I get what he's saying, but Joker is a complete utter burden to everyone and has clearly shown he has no interest in changing. Being insane and having rough background doesn't excuse someone who knows right and wrong. It's only a matter of time. Sooner or later there's going to be a comic story arc that comes out where Bruce is going to have to come to terms that he's going to need to break his one rule with Joker because he'll see he has no choice.

[@PulloffPrime]

those voices were actually pretty well similar to the originals

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@PulloffPrime thank you!

[@Surge-Shift]

This would literally be everyone’s reaction if we all could be robins

[@kentuckyfriedsocks4384]

i really like the voice acting, and how serious it was treated in the first part before descending into chaos. it doesnt have that cringy anime eng dub voice acting.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@kentuckyfriedsocks4384 Thank you! And yeah, I tried to make it sound natural and not kinda forced like how dubs can sound.

[@mudsaisa5861]

No joke, I thought this was the og scene at first. That’s how good the acting was

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

Red Hood even says in the original comic and movie “I’m not talking about killing Penguin or Scarecrow or Harvey Dent”, which shows that he’s not some perverted killing maniac, he just knows a complete monster when he sees one.

[@animezparadisez69]

Kinda sad when you realize the reason Batman refuses to kill is because in reality he knows he's just as deranged as Joker deep down.

[@chibipotate]

Yeah, In a universe where you're going super dark and gritty where the Villains arent just being a nuisance while stealing money, But are constantly going around murdering people, The No-Killing rule for Batman is kinda out of the park, It just makes no sense when people who murder hundreds and keep breaking out just... Repeat that forever. But at least it makes sense in the old format of things where a lot of the time villains are just... One offs who never threaten anyone again, Or where them killing someone is a rare thing because... you know, Even Bank Robbers are just there to rob the bank and get out... Not kill everyone in the building. So the "Lets not kill them either" rule kinda makes sense there. Guess its not too surprising that a not-too-bad moral of a Character falls apart when you change the Joker from a guy that keeps gassing people with laughing-gas while robbing banks, to a full on domestic terrorist. ........... Oh also Funny Skit! enjoyed the back and fourth, Very Gud.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@chibipotate wholeheartedly agree! The no kill rule isn’t really stupid, just outdated with how DC writes its world nowadays. Thanks for watching!

[@Indigo_1001]

What story does joker kill hundreds of people. That’s the point, Batman stops him

[@StarboyXL9]

Tbf the "no-killing" rule is a relic from a time when batman was a super-campy child's character meant to teach kids common moral lessons. It's part of the problem with those kids growing up and still wanting to carry those characters with them: the characters have to grow up too, except for these weird hold-overs from the era when they essentially were a child's toy.

[@AlX-Ander]

Idk how many people noticed, but you did a great job rereading the original lines. It actually sounds a little more natural than the original.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

Thank you so much! 👍

[@Lite727]

His whole philosophy is correct. I think Jim Gordon said it best in Batman begins about escalation “If we wear cevlar, they start using armor piercing rounds, if your wearing a mask, take this guy for an example 🃏”. You will never eliminate the element of crime completely as long as there is free will because it will just adapt to its circumstances. If you eliminate the criminals who aren’t scared and manipulate the ones who are for economic control then you can create a better functioning society. Alfred implies at the start of the film that Bruce nearly got a full nights sleep during Jasons arrival. Think about that. Red Hood single handeldy almost retired The Batman with his approach to crime fighting. He is the hero Gotham deserves.

[@DreamersOfReality]

Never address the root of crime, and of course it'll just fester...

[@rian8250]

he has a point

[@almas4663]

You kmow what else he has? A gun

[@purrgiri9862]

Batman jason or joker?

[@redninja3056]

No he really doesn't actually

[@almas4663]

@@redninja3056 He does

[@redninja3056]

@almas4663 if you don't pay attention and can't read sure he does

[@nevadaaguilar2062]

This just about sums up why Batman, Superman and pretty much every DC superhero pisses me off. I get that the writers *need* to let the villains live to keep the story going. But the heroes are so damned sanctimonious about it. Letting the villains live knowing perfectly well that they’ll break out in less than a week and kill more innocent people. It’s not crazy. It’s just freakin’ dumb and I don’t understand why anybody would find it entertaining. Especially when they’ve been doing this same “heroes don’t kill” schtick for *decades* now.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

Being a red hood fan is like being in an abusive relationship with DC. They do him so dirty when 9 times out of 10 he’s 100% in the right 😔

[@joelkilchoer4238]

I think it’s just a good real life principle clashing with the genre, like you said. Vigilantes shouldn’t go around killing people, but the problem is that for example the Joker is the ideal fictional use case for an advocate of the death penalty. He cannot be kept in prison, he cannot be reformed, he WILL break out and kill more people unless you take that step.

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@joelkilchoer4238 the problem with that principle in superhero stuff generally (but especially DC) is that they say that, but then make the villains attempt to wipe out entire civilizations or kill thousands of people. The only superhero media that I think does the whole no killing thing well enough is Spider-Man, because Spidey’s rogues are very often just down on their luck crooks who don’t really have many options. Even Norman Osborn typically suffers from legitimate mental illness and there’s often an air of tragedy around the character.

[@adambump5297]

The thing is Batman is a perfectionist so he knows that he's mentally unstable just as unstable as the people he fights if not more so that means that in his mind he knows that if he kills even once even if it's someone as vile as the Joker then he can't trust himself anymore becuase he knows that he'll never be able to stop killing.

[@filipvadas7602]

Some members of their rogues gallery can and HAVE been redeemed. But, yeah, keeping around villains like Joker, Cheetah, Zod and Lex around when you KNOW that they will never change their ways is stupid. At least Superman can and does send people to the Phantom Zone tho. Not killing them, but removing them from the equation basically permanently.

[@RensStoryteller]

As an Autistic ADHD person, I get Bruce's whole "No Killing" rule, but it only works when you look at him as Neurodivergant which I do: my brain struggles to know when enough is enough, especially when emotions run hot, and if I were to let myself cross that line fully on any one person, even once, how will I know I won't do it again? If I keep the dam up it's stable, but even one fracture in the foundation and suddenly everything is at risk of the crashing wave of a flood. That fear mixed with the knowledge of my struggle to know when enough is enough and when I go overboard and my main worry is about releasing that level of wrath reserved for people like the Joker on people like Bill the Henchman who is just trying to make enough money to feed his kids while being stuck in the bad part of Gotham. I'm not all that strong or combat trained, so even in the worst case I probably won't be too much a risk to others, but take that mentality and give it to the body that can bench the Kingpin on a rest day and the wit and determination to stand face to face against Darkseid and win a battle of wills, and suddenly we see the single most dangerous person on earth actively nerfing himself so as to not let himself go overboard. He knows he is a monster on a leash, and he desperately hopes against hope that his leash doesn't snap because if it does there may be no way to bring it back under control.

[@draketherogue6634]

I mean, we've seen what happens when Batman becomes like the Punisher, The Grim Knight, and it didn't end so well for him. Plus, maybe Batman psychologically can't handle taking someone's life because of the trauma of his parents murder.

[@kyledeguzman165]

We haven’t seen what happens when he becomes the punisher because the Batman who kills as well as the rest of those weak unrealistic characters don’t matter, and tons of heroes are the same and have gone through worse but unlike him they’re smarter parents, Better friends and can actually handle taking someone’s life especially if they threatened or succeed in destroying an entire city full of innocent people

[@AIartificalIntellige]

​@kyledeguzman165 thank you, the dark multiverse was a cool concept but I hate it when ppl use those stories ti justify not killing Joker. Like.....if you think for 5 seconds, none of those worlds matter as they're literally written to MAGICALLY fail no matter what.

[@WordWisp]

That's just the writers making up excuses like "see, he can't kill, he'll go crazy" he used to be able to at least say "I won't kill you, but I don't need to save you"

[@ps-lt2jf]

Spider man if he lived in Gotham would go symbiote instantly

[@DoctorTalon]

This is like an RPG with the a dialogue box/wheel and Jason is passing all the Speech Checks! 😂

[@gozy5077]

This is my new favorite video of all time, this is now canon in my mind, nothing will ever change this-

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@gozy5077 I’m glad you enjoyed it! 😄

[@Tmp45632]

Whenever batman’s no kill rule is interrogated I’m always reminded of that bit in the clone wars where this question is posed to Obiwan and his ex girlfriend and then Anakin swoops in and kills the bad guy, and the music treats it like it was bad that Anakin did it but his nonchalant, “what? He was gonna blow up the ship.” Just got rid of any possible moral high ground.

[@sharkyenaqueenm5908]

Right?? Like how on earth was killing the guy who was going to kill a ship full of innocent people NOT a net positive?? It's especially hypocritical bc later in the show, Rex kills the slave overseer guy and it's treated as a good thing and a good way for Obi-Wan to get around his "don't kill a defenseless person" rule, just because unlike Anakin, we know Rex isn't going to become a mass murderer

[@spectraphantom5870]

1:52 All those comics and merch he got says otherwise Jason

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@spectraphantom5870 Jason wasnt thinking about that because he was a poor kid in Gotham, Batman spares him because he knows his monetary value 💵

[@spectraphantom5870]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions I was talking about irl

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@spectraphantom5870 ik I was joking lol

[@linkesocke4533]

Here's an idea for Batman on how to deal with Joker without taking his life: Beat the Joker into a coma and pay a team of doctors to keep him sedated and harmless. Or ask Zatanna to put him into a permanent sleep with magic like sleeping beauty. Seal him up in a magic gem like Raven did with her evil demonic father. Or don't bloody safe him next time the Joker gets himself into a deadly situation or starts a turf war with one of the other rogues/supervillains. Or just let Jason do it, get him a good lawyer and let him face the legal fallout. If there even is any since it's Gotham and a lot of people to see Joke taken out.

[@BuckyKattGetFuzzy]

Batman's kryptonite is nuance.

[@Indigo_1001]

Batman haters kryptonite is nuance

[@BuckyKattGetFuzzy]

@@Indigo_1001 Batman fanboys kryptonite is any criticism of their lord and savior.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@BuckyKattGetFuzzy Well when the criticism is absolutely stupid and it comes from people like you that never opened a comic in your life then yeah. It’s is dumb and beyond annoying You don’t read comics so why care so much about comic book characters that you know nothing about.

[@Acacius1992]

​@BuckyKattGetFuzzy Ah yes and instead meatriding Jason huh? But nah it's true Batman is NOT a perfect character. He have flaws and things to criticize like every good character cause that makes them believable

[@handsomeman-child8751]

Joker: I'm gonna kill Superman's infant child when they're born Batman: *immediately breaks Joker's neck like a bottle cap with absolutely zero hesitation* Jason: THAT'S ALL IT FUCKING TOOK!?

[@jim-bob3093]

There is a really good convo about integrity vs justice in this scene somewhere and about what values we sacrifice for it. But boy did Winick fail at it with this 'im one kill away from being a complete and utter murderhobo' excuse

[@theoldkobold]

He said thousands entire graveyards? No justice system would keep him alive

[@ohlookitisacat7404]

And yet Joker did stay alive.

[@Billyblue98]

Batman: I learned from my parents that all life has value Red Hood, with no hesitation: Adolph Hitler Not pulling any fucking punches, lmfao

[@brendenhawley2225]

To be fair, one can say without the whole Nazi social movement, Hitler just a failed artist. Trick is to make him a used car salesmen, or get him working for a charity instead of Nazies.

[@rodneybrown2059]

I mean like with all the heinous things Joker has done throughout the entire dc universe, you’d think Batman would finally decide to end him. But his ‘moral code’ won’t allow it. And this is why I prefer Jason and Thomas over Bruce since they’re willing to kill someone who really needs to die.

[@TitanQueen]

Like on one point, okay Batman may have a point, on the other hand Jason 100% has a point! Especially if he's only going after actual killers and grapists.

[@jacobmulligan3832]

I really want a genuine comic where the bat family call Bruce on his bs moral code

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@jacobmulligan3832 while Jason does routinely, whenever he does the writers make the batfamily act like complete lapdogs to Bruce. Dick especially pisses me off with how loyal he is to Bruce’s no kill rule, when he himself beat Joker to death after he thought Joker killed Tim. But for some reason he doesn’t have that energy when Jason is killed? Honestly, as a Jason fan the batfamily sometimes comes across as really abusive, especially to Jason, there’s even a time in the comics where the batfamily basically jumps him.

[@jacobmulligan3832]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions hum didn’t know some of that, and ye it so annoying how most of the time none of them understand Jason at all and just brush him off as a threat

[@thunderlion6909]

Oh there are tons of those moments in Batman comic books where not only does his bat family call him out but also his own villains too which is crazy.

[@divinehypnos]

The title truly have a point too

[@someonebored0100]

No way in HELL a 12 to 15 year old perfectly knew and understood the risks of being a vigilante. Bruce’s mentality of absolutes, and him being to weak to stop himself from being a serial murderer, means that he’s a major contributor to Gotham’s suffering.

[@ztyran]

To play Devil's Advocate, a later story gives a better reason not to kill the Joker. And that's that Gotham City would probably send someone worse next. I think it shows that Batman knows he's fighting a losing battle, and unlike other portrayals, Gotham City is truly beyond saving.

[@ZX-Gear]

Ironically enough,Neo Gotham of Batman Beyond is more dangerous but somehow not as hopeless with Terry cause of how everyone and even Villains can die. People got used to the new normal and just try ot live their lives.

[@RedReign]

i've always thought the no killing rule and the faux moral compass are so freaking dumb when it comes to DC and it's villains 2:47 THIS EXACTLY THIS i've been saying this exact thing for ages. if he's so mentally unhinged that killing ONE GUY is enough to instantly make him a mass murderer then he shouldn't be running about playing superhero in the first place

[@nef36]

I'd like to point out that Batman here isn't even really saying he'd become a serial killer if he killed the Joker. He's saying that the reason he hasn't killed the Joker yet is because if he did, he'd chose to kill him again.

[@EST283]

U know, Batman being him, he most likely mastered all there is or most at least right? So that includes psychology, and being armed with that info, I think Batman would know that he’s….not *much* better than the criminals mentally speaking

[@hahamlml6844]

"i learned from my parents death that all life holds value" clearly, that's why we keeping the joker alive so he can kill more

[@hsalfesrever3554]

Batman not killing is fine, he is a vigilante, but what's not fine is how the Gotham Justice system hasn't given Joker the death penalty

[@Dealingwithlife15]

"If you kill a killer, the number of killers stays the same." Answer 1: Then I'd kill another, that way the number goes down. Jason's answer: Okay then I'll just kill every other killer alive and then it'll just be me.

[@Acacius1992]

And then there will just appear more cause of the one Jason created be it out of revenge or seeking for glory. So this logic is flawed

[@charlesenek]

Satisfying ending than the original one TBH

[@martinmarvinii3139]

God it’s so immensely satisfying to see Batman get his ideology torn to shreds with logic.

[@sunsinger970]

"A rapist is target practice" Redhood is a king among edge lords.

[@kiernanhowell-mackinley1733]

More like king among people with common sense.

[@HellishSpoon]

I blame gothams justice system, super heros are vigilantes, they don't have the authority nor right to decide someones death however the justice system does, fact that joker never got the death penalty and always escapes prison is honestly ridiculous.

[@milkman4407]

Arguably, the joker has done some worse things than hitler

[@williammcdonough4701]

While I don't preferr heros to kill all the time against everyone who's a criminal, I'm not against it. They should always do the right thing to the best of their extent. Be an example of that's good and inspire hope, but sometimes the villians in these stories are so dangerous and vile, there can be no other way to end it. If batman killed the joker, I would be far from upset. Bruce proved that one bad day can't break him, so will him killing joker break him that badly?

[@Indigo_1001]

So what happens when you have character like the joker who is one of the most popular fictional characters in history? Let’s say you are the next Batman writer and you are supposed to tackle this subject while NOT being allowed to kill the joker. Or if you kill the joker he will be resurrected in the next issue. How would you handle this?

[@williammcdonough4701]

@@Indigo_1001 Have a fan vote and ask the readers if they would want this

[@nickthepick8043]

To be fair, in the original comic, Batman DID try to kill Joker after he murdered Jason. And Superman was helping him!

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@nickthepick8043 yeah OG comic Batman I don’t really got a problem with. Now, the modern Batmen are a different story 😅

[@nickthepick8043]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions You and me both, brother! But I think mainstream Batman may be a better term.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@TheUnknownGruntProductions Batman ALWAYS had the no kill rule. But that moment he was ready to break it. I can’t stand people that like that never open a comic book in your life be so opinionated on comic book characters. You openly spread misinformation and pass it on as fact, like Bruce “passing a law to ban death penalty”. I can’t stand people like you

[@TheUnknownGruntProductions]

@@Indigo_1001 bro chill. It’s a fucking meme. “I can’t stand people like you” then how about you stop lurking around my comment section dude.

[@thunderlion6909]

@@Indigo_1001 No he didn't the so untrue he use kill a lot of his criminal and villains back in the 40s he even use GUNS! until some blasted fans ruined it and that how we got stuck with the main modern hypocritical Batman.

[@pop000690]

Punisher: That clown would've died long before he got to Jason if it was me.