HeroQuest: Return of the Witch Lord Deep Dive Review | All the Secrets | Spoilers For Zargons Only

[@redroosterlivemusic]

This is an awesome review - Great deep dive and am looking forward to running this with your notes. Top work

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks. I'm glad the video was helpful.

[@momuse88]

As the 4everZargon in our family, I appreciate these deep-dive videos because you have good insight into certain quests that sometimes leave me puzzled about their purpose. When it comes time to run a game, I always watch the piece about that quest ahead of time. Thanks for turning out great content!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

That's great. I'm really pleased you find the videos helpful. I should be plunging into the Frozen Horror in the next month or so!

[@stevenray8737]

Hasbro announces the next expansion in the legendary series; Heroquest: Every Which Way but Witch Lord! Introducing two new heroes - The bareknuckle Brawler and The Orangutan.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Right turn, Clyde.

[@jameswhitehouse5706]

That’s a blast from the past 😂

[@NicholasSousa-m7p]

When does it come out !?

[@stevenray8737]

@@NicholasSousa-m7p Not soon enough! 😁

[@jeremycarnes1656]

This is my favorite of all the expansions. The Doom Guard. Kessandria. The rotating room....its all so damn perfect. And off all the Questbooks, this one is the most Warhammer of all them. Its the one that makes the world of the game feel bigger, its got the most dark fantasy vibes,its all just so damn good.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a great adventure. Having the Old World map on the back of the quest book is probably a big reason why this expansion feels like it's more a part of that larger setting.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring well, see, I didn't own this expansion back in the original HQ run. I had no idea what Warhammer was back in 1990. So, I actually never cracked the Questbook open until the re-release. But even through the "dread" warriors and what not veneer, the Warhammer DNA is apparent. None of the expansions are bad, but this one...its just so dawned good. My 11 year old daughter just took her first trip to Barak Tor, and watching her flee from the Witchlord while he slowly lumbered toward her, tossing fireballs, possessing her comrades and forcing them to attack each other, and summoning the undead was so much fun. Fun substitution: The spirit casket thing that is supposed to be a magical version of the rack from Dread Moon made a superior stand in for a magical prison for the Witch Lord, as well as adding a few spectres to the mix. Next stop: Reclamation of the Spirit Blade.

[@DavieMac-x3w]

So so great these reviews 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 o do love them ⚔️

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks so much for the kind words.

[@DavieMac-x3w]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring always a pleasure seeing your heroquest content ⚔️👌 thoroughly enjoyable and informative ✅ how about doing a review of some of the heroquest home brew content that’s out there ?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thank you. I'm afraid I don't cover homebrew content on the channel, but I still have lots of official content to get through!

[@DavieMac-x3w]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring that’s a shame as there is some fantastic stuff out there I’ve discovered, but looking forward to your next video ⚔️🙌🏻

[@lucarocks7866]

YES! Been waiting for this deep dive for awhile. I will say that KK and ROTWL are great also because they give just little tastes of things that you can add to different quests later on (ex. Boulder trap, rotating room). And it also leaves a lot of empty room in the board to add stuff should you want to kick it up a notch. Once again, great breakdown! Can't wait for more!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. Yes, I think they are a nice balance of what you know, and little flashes of original new concepts. Great stuff.

[@Malcadon]

Great review as ever. I remember being disappointed by some the choices they made with this Quest Pack back in the day. I remember I made some changes to the Quests. When they got caught, the Dwarf and Wizard are locked in so they find the secret door to the adjacent cell, and in that cell, they find two secret doors: The normal door leading to the room, and the one leading to the corridor. While free, they must find must find everyone's equipment and money stashed in a chest in another room, and they find and rescue their friends. I tell them that the Barbarian and Elf cannot move until a free Hero move next to or pass over them to remove the chains. With Skullmar, if they fail to kill him as soon as they thaws, he will guard The Witch Lord with a group of Doom Guards (in the room marked B). With the Witch Queen Kessandria, I place her more ahead in the Quests, in a special room, and if they fail to kill her, she will fight alongside the Witch Lord in the final room -- although, if they kill her, he would be brutal. This could have made the big-boss battle a tough one if nor for the fact that my old players would try to murder anyone that looked important.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks. I've been thinking, it would be fun to have a split dungeon when the heroes are imprisoned. The dwarf and wizard go on a regular quest to find their friends, while at the same time the barbarian and elf fight in an arena using the new Against the Ogre Horde rules. I think this could be interesting as the barbarian and elf have something to do, and it's a bit of a ticking clock as they are gradually worn down by a never-ending tide of undead in the arena.

[@KentKaliber]

LOVING this deep dive into Return of the Witch Lord, it really explored new dynamics and TWISTS! I just wish the Quest had included some new minis (like for the Stone Orc, new Bosses, etc).

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

New minis would have been great. I love that we have the skeleton archers we can drop into this campaign now, but I hope we see even more variant undead enemies in the future.

[@Valentine82]

Love these Heroquest deep dives!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks. I'm glad you are enjoying them.

[@SgtHouse]

Great video and thank you on the pointed errors on the maps! Love to see more of Zargon only series!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. I still have a few more quest books to get through in the series!

[@NicholasSousa-m7p]

I’m totally hooked to your reviews man. I got heroes quest for Christmas as well in 1989 but no one ever played it with me and now I dug it out and purchasing the expansions and ready to game. If anyone ever wants to play online or discord through a game, let me know.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. I'm glad you are enjoying the videos, and I hope you manage to catch up on all the adventuring you missed out on in 1989!

[@Cometofdoom4316]

Thanks for making this stuff!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thank you for watching.

[@easygrin1127]

​@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoringim in the proces of remaking Heroquest. Is the 2020 version compatible with the 1990 one?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I did a video on compatibility a long time ago. Avalon Hill scaled up the board spaces, so newer components (tiles and miniatures) are larger now. Of course, cards are also different sizes with different art, and the whole aesthetic has changed.

[@easygrin1127]

​​@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoringah ok but the rules are exactly the same? I mean if you get newer player characters like the rogue or bewerker would those rules work with the old games.. as the old games and exspansions is what i got

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Depends if you play European or North American rules. The new stuff uses the North American rules, which are significantly different to the rules I grew up with in the UK.

[@Timoles713]

Definitely one of favorite expansions. Great video.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a great expansion. Who doesn't enjoy fighting hordes of the undead?

[@Mailed-Knight]

Great vid. 'They can't even take her shoes!'.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Probably crystal high heels or something. Totally impractical.

[@Mailed-Knight]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Makes sense.

[@johronok4067]

I just ordered Heroquest the other day, I'm excited to play it for the first time. I ordered the expansion that has the Knight character as well. The minis don't have the same kind of appeal that the classic minis do, to me, but I really like that they brought this game back.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Modern HeroQuest really can’t compete with the original aesthetic but Avalon Hill are doing a great job overall. I hope you have a lot of fun with the new edition.

[@michaelhill6453]

If only AH would commission you to write the next quest pack. It would be a doozy with the overlays requiring a box of their own. 🙂

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. I don't know about that. Those who can do, those who can't become critics!

[@HivisoftheScale]

Awww this one was always one of my favorites. If it were me, I would have Kessendria and Skullmar would appear in the finale if they escaped from the heroes!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

They do need to make a comeback somehow.

[@HivisoftheScale]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring and hopefully something better integrated then "Somehow, the emperor came back!" I mean, seriously what a waste of Ian Mcdairmid! 😒

[@mattwoolrich5313]

Love the witch lord expansion pack. Always thought out of all the bad guy characters he is the best. As a kid I only played the first two quests. So when I get around to playing it with other fellow questor friend it’s going to be epic.. ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I don't remember getting all the way through it as a kid. It's a fun adventure, though.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

There's been a few mods since we played this expansion back in the day! 😊

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

One of the interesting things with HeroQuest is how it seems to change a little bit with each person that comes into contact with it.

[@aleopardstail]

This and Kellar's Keep for me have one large downside, they just use the base game monster, but more of them - yes there are some alternate sculpts, but each set bringing in one new baddie type just to be a bit different would be nice certainly worth adding the ranged skellies, and likely finding the odd alternative boss models, at the very least maybe find some of the skellies from the other two small boxes with sword & board and give them a bit better defence and add the "advanced" skellies from the app so the scythe armed ones can strike diagonally - maybe just while the boss one is still not in bits

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think facing the enemies in such large numbers is still very exciting, despite the reuse of common enemies. However, we are lucky we have so many additional resources now to add the skeleton, orc, and goblin archers and the special rules from the app.

[@jameswhitehouse5706]

It’s worth mentioning that the art for the original box cover is my favourite of them all. It screams out buy me! This cartoony version is still nice but the original has wow factor. Quick question it’s been so long since I played the original. Is this new one exactly the same?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

All of Les Edwards art for HeroQuest is phenomenal. I understand why they changed the style for the new edition, and I appreciate the homages, but it's never going to compare to those originals. So, if you grew up playing the European version of HeroQuest, this version is different as it's based on the NA rules and quest book. Otherwise, you are in for pretty much the same experience.

[@JeffWittyArt]

My only gripe was that I used 2 different characters for prisoners. This made some of the text not line-up when playing the app. Not the end of the world, I got around it.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, the app just isn't quite smart enough for that sort of thing.

[@harveydents]

UGH, the revolving room is FUN at first but then after a while it was bloody annoying! I couldnt get our heroes in the same hall! lol

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

If it starts to outstay its welcome, I would look at introducing a way to prevent it rotating, like the barbarian can pass a strength test (roll under his body on 2D6) to hold the door for a turn to let other heroes through or something.

[@philipgoellner9336]

Great video! Do you know of any notable, fan-made content that perhaps fleshes out the missed story beats you mentioned? Or perhaps you've come up with some solutions of your own?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

As Zargon I am always adjusting and twisting things as I go. I always treat it more as a dungeonmaster experience, and adapt on the fly. It's nice to adapt to what your players are doing - making things tougher or easier, throwing them a curveball when they think they have something figured out.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

HeroQuest works best when Zargon acts as a DM instead of just another player.

[@1000jjwalker]

great use of the last Jedi meme

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It fits too perfectly.

[@JamesMartin-bc8xq]

What when was this outside the BBC , why how did I miss this!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Sorry, not sure I follow you.

[@JamesMartin-bc8xq]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring - sorry that was weird I commented on a completely different video and ended up here… sorry.. this is an awesome video though!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. Okay, that makes sense! I was baffled. Thanks for watching.

[@vladimirpalik6697]

Return of the which lord?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Which witch?

[@Rippafratta]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoringThe witch which wished to ditch the dishes in the kitchen.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

YOU REMIND ME OF THE BAAAAAAABE

[@tylerdurden5122]

@@jeremycarnes1656what babe??😃

[@EriktheRed2023]

I really wish I had been able to pick up the original. Few minis see more use than the classic skellington. 😄 But I don't think I would have been able to appreciate the storytelling. That early bloody nose to the heroes that they will be thinking of for the rest of the mission, e.g. I see that now, and can properly cackle with evil glee as Morcar/Zargon.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I love the original HeroQuest undead minis. They are awesome.

[@andywilson6527]

Always thought this expansion pack had great cover art. However, I was disappointed it has the problems which you mention. Plus, there missed opportunity, with no changes if you played kellar's keep first.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The cover art is fabulous.

[@Hannman97]

I own it but have never played it. It’s hard to motivate my group to play a 10 part adventure with no new monster types.

[@bradgibbons1062]

Same! Kellar's Keep, too!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's understandable to feel a bit exhausted at the thought of wading through loads more of the same enemies you have seen countless times, but there is excitement in seeing such large hordes. Undead were always encountered in limited quantities in the base game, so it's fun to see massive armies of them all at once. Also, at least we do get variant enemies - spirit riders, doomguard, the bosses like Bellthor, plus the new rules for skeleton attacks from the app. If you have other expansions you can use the different miniatures for visual variety, and you can drop in the skeleton archers too. It all adds to the variety in small ways.

[@Gewitsch86]

Hello, while I like the Characters (Belthor, Skulmar, Kessandria and the witch Lord), the overall harshness and sometimes straight nasty way of dealing with the players made me change several scenes. Straight up stealing Equipment/Gold is something I hate. Players have to be dumb and reckless in order to justify loosing a lot of money. I mean the crossbow is destroyed when someone attacks those orc statues in the last mission with it O_O People could lose their means of attacking. Mission 8 is something where the players can easily be beaten, because you just have to put out canon foder in the floors. You will most likely have 4 Mummies. They are tanky as hell and then you enter a death spiral. The heroes will have problems killing 3 or more monsters per turn. That means this mission has to be nerfed by a kind Morcar Player. I threatened my players that if Skulmar or Kessandria survived, they would return in the last mission fully healed among the witch lord ;)

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think those are all valid complaints, but Zargon/Morcar should always be modifying the difficulty for the heroes anyway. I think mission 8 worked better in the European rules where the single hit point monsters were easy to keep thinned out. I don't mind about the magical orc statues because heroes are only going to lose one weapon, and one of the quests has a stash of swords so it's not too hard to make sure everyone has a weapon.

[@RodinDragon]

When I had this questbook as a kid Zargon, I was filled with glee. I get to destroy the heroes powerful armor and weapons! I get to remove a crossbow right before the final fight! Etc etc. Looking at it as an adult Zargon, the whole questbook feels mean-spirited. There is no warning that Borin's Armor (arguably the best Artifact in the base game) will be destroyed in quest 2, and there is no way to get it back, leaving the hero permanently weakened. The Gates of Bellthor give the heroes an extreme amount of money (1000 gold in the two chests alone), but they lose all of that gold before they have a chance to spend it, making the choice to give all that gold feel mocking and cruel. If the heroes abandon the chest in quest 6, you now have two unarmed heroes with only the gold they scrounged out of the treasure deck to re-equip them with. That might not be so bad, but the next quest is the Chessboard of Doom! There once again is no gold to help re-equip the heroes if they somehow survive. Replacement weapons and gold aren't found until the aforementioned mummy apocalypse quest, which is hard to survive with two heroes not having their gear. And then THAT gear breaks when the heroes hit an Orc statue! I like the lore of this questbook, and it has a couple cool quest designs. But overall its so trolly that it is the only remake expansion I didn't purchase, and the only reason I would is to get the extra undead minis.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@RodinDragon I understand where you are coming from, but for me the money is specifically there so the heroes feel the loss. It just makes the defeat have more impact. As a Zargon player I will always adjust things based on how the heroes are doing. If it ever started to feel mean, I would just ease off until the heroes had got their footing again. And that's how I handle all the quests.

[@RodinDragon]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Oh, absolutely. I run a heavy layer of homebrew on top of everything anyway, so if I were to do these I would be modifying the heck out of the quests to begin with. Main reason for not doing them is that I have actually run this expansion before, even if it was 30+ years ago now. With a bunch of expansions I've never played, why revisit? Your reviews have been invaluable to my homebrew fixes, and I'm about to start Rise of the Dread Moon with a slightly modified quest order to address the story problems you brought up to try and introduce the main villain earlier and involve him more in the story. On the impact of defeat, I think it very much depends on your playgroup. I have two campaigns underway, and the first group would be outraged by permanent loss of a magic item and I've even removed the Rust spell for the same reason. If I gave them 1000 gold and then took it away with a forced loss I'd probably be lynched! The second group would laugh it off, and I play much more hardball with them and have aleady killed off a character (RIP Glodymyr the Knight, who learned not to charge into the guard room in Grak's fortress while the rest of the party is two corridors away). So it does all depend!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@RodinDragon You definitely have to play to your group. If I was running a mission for my daughter I definitely wouldn't be taking her favourite bashing stick away at any point! I'm glad the videos have been helpful for you. Rise of the Dread Moon is packed with good ideas, but a little tweaking will go a long way. Definitely need to make more of that villain - I was my own worst enemy there as I built up his involvement in my head and the campaign struggled to deliver anything close to what I had been thinking!

[@elijahherstal776]

So, let me tell you how awesome my 65-year-old father is: He has zero interest in games like this. BUT, he's a 'builder'. He likes to make things. So he builds me this big 'tray' thing that's the perfect size for most boards for board games, with a soft felt and a 1" 'lip' around the edge to keep things from slipping off. You basically play your board game inside a shallow 'box'. The 'lip around the edge is thick, and cut into the sides are grooves wide enough to place dice. Additionally, there are 2 'side hanging' trays with felt for rolling dice and little places for cards and books that just 'hang' with a bracket on the lip of the table. And did I mention this thing FOLDS with a sliding hinge bracket underneath and can be carried like a big 'briefcase'? I know this has nothing to do with Hero Quest, but- he DID get the idea when he stopped by the game shop to meet me for lunch and saw me playing with some friends. He was there for like 5 minutes to meet up with me so we could head out for lunch, saw the game, and then got the idea. Yes, I'm bragging. My dad kicks ass.

[@EriktheRed2023]

I applaud your bragging in this case. 👍

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

That's awesome. My dad was a builder, and made my folding, transportable 6x4 wargaming tabletopper. One of the very early videos I made on the channel was bragging about it, so I get where you are coming from!

[@synstar8558]

Great video, but just a clarification question. I know you can play in any order wanted but isn’t Telor and Spirit Queen before Witch Lord?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

"Officially" yes, but of course when these expansions were first written, these were the first two expansions and created a "three-act play." Prophecy of Telor fits in very nicely, I think, while Spirit Queen's Torment feels out of place in general. I have done this sort of video on both of those expansions previously and talked about where they sit in the timeline.