Referencing skills in Ableton and Reason

What is your referencing workflow? Do you have one? If not, I'm going to try to convince you that you urgently need one, and how to do it in both Ableton Live and in Reason!
The melodic techno project: / ever-brighter
My Torc techno project: / torcaudio
My Foundations of Electronic Music course: courses.underdog.brussels/cou...
My Industrial Techno follow-along course: courses.underdog.brussels/cou...
You can get access to all the Reason devices with a Reason+ subscription: www.reasonstudios.com/#ref=un... (affiliate link)
MCompare: www.meldaproduction.com/MCompare
Contents:
0:00 What is your referencing workflow?
2:31 How to draw a bicycle
8:18 Referencing in Ableton Live
13:40 Using MCompare
16:30 Referencing in Reason

[@OscarUnderdog]

Find Oscar's video courses here: courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤 Join the Underdog Discord channel: discord.gg/z5N9CTA 👾👾👾 Sign up to the mailing list here: tinyurl.com/yy92sx5u 💌💌💌 Pledge to the Patreon: ​ www.patreon.com/underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

Little tip: referencing tracks in the same key helps to compare tonal balance a bit better

[@georget30000]

I like the discussions you give before getting into the DAW

[@Chaamoon]

There is another method you can use in Ableton. Set the output of the reference track to External instead of Master, this way it won't be affected by whatever you have on your mastering pipeline. You can also map the solo button of the track to a keyboard button if you don't have a midi controller.

[@OscarUnderdog]

Great suggestion!

[@leoislo]

You beat me to this comment. Well done. This is how I always use refs.

[@baptistezimmer6644]

Yes exactly, best way to do it in ableton

[@OrangeNash]

Also, assuming your reference track has been mastered, reduce its level by -8 to -10 dB.

[@TjMoon91]

If you’d like to use your master channel to process audio, but also see your reference tracks on the same analysers as your own track, you can set up an audio effect rack with two parallel chains. Place it after any mixbus processing, but before any analysers The first chain with no processing to just let your track through. The second, put an Ableton compressor with a ratio of 1:1 so it’s not actually processing the audio. Then set the sidechain input to the group in your project where you can put any reference tracks, and turn on sidechain listen (the headphones symbol). Now, when you solo a reference track it will be routed through the sidechain input so it bypasses your mixbus processing, but will show on the same analysers. Importantly, make sure to set the output of your reference group to ‘sends only’.

[@stevoofd]

I love your use of the bicycle anecdote to really bring to life your arguments. I’m of the opinion that, when tutoring, it is important to hook the audience with curiosity as to why something is important, before going into all the technical details. Attention is mediated by motivation, and that in turn is primed by curiosity. Basically, it’s more fruitful to engage an audience beforehand with a relatable story so they can frame the information that follows, instead of the other way around or without a relatable framework altogether. You’re doing an excellent job with that!

[@ndirbadi2437]

I really appreciate that even your video will be non monetized you did it for us. You are one who makes me motivated to learn! Thanks!

[@dannyvili8729]

After 3 minus of hearing I told my self that you are a very smart man

[@DanJanTube]

You're a very efficient communicator. Thank you for respecting your viewers' time.

[@alessandrobraz9961]

Love the analogy of the bicycle that is so true

[@visualizersmusic]

this dude is the best Music production teacher one can learn from. No Doubt.

[@artsemilapitski8258]

Oh how glad I am to find this channel !!

[@abarass]

Every single word- indeed! Thanks

[@shrinewitch]

This channel is an absolute goldmine!

[@tiborenagy]

This guy is a legend

[@imno1_tekno]

since i got traktor s3 i always have traktor software open and connect my daw (main audio interface) to it through the line input so as long as i have the groove established i start playing my track in the mix with reference tracks and instantly make adjustments while both (my track and reference) play on the same beat or switch between them with the crossfader. Well sometimes I completely forget about my track and play one hour set but for the most part I find this referencing method very intuitive. Anyway I thing this is the first time commenting on your channel so let me thank you for your videos, your teachings really helping people out there including me. I would say this is the best youtube channel for electronic music production and even beyond that.

[@user-qf4zs6qj4c]

'Random constellation of nonsense' sums my output up perfectly.

[@thomasbooij6239]

Great explanation! You really drove the point home for the use of reference tracks! To add a third workflow option in Ableton to reference while still keeping the option to use return tracks and don't need to have a third party plugin is the following: Put your reference track on a audio track. Select in the 'audio to' menu the option 'Ext. out'. This will bypass the master channel for this audio track only. Making it possible to A/B with an existing project without grouping anything. I love your content, keep up the great work!

[@OscarUnderdog]

Yes! This is a great option too - just be sure to put the same monitoring/analysis plugins on both signal paths!

[@chrismueller85]

Thanks for sharing this 3rd Option, also what i thought about or better, how i do it at the moment ;)

[@Chaamoon]

Lol I just wrote exactly the same thing.

[@tronos]

I use this option always and on each channel one off my favorite free plugin: TBPro Audio ISOL8. love this plugin

[@carptackula7536]

But what if you're using Sonarworks within Ableton? (- would a possible answer be to delete it and use Sonaworks System wide within the operating system perhaps?) - Wait... Why not ROUTE the SEND FXs to your Track that is the Pseudo Master (track 1 in the video) and then you can still have Sonarworks on the true Master Track in the Daw (meaning it is affecting both your music with Send FX, and the reference tracks)? Does this make sense?

[@DSVN23]

First video of the new year. Very good way to start what I hope to be a productive year!

[@vaody6810]

Love Reason!!! 👏👏👏

[@dzaxys4643]

Thanks i have been doing by ear for years sometimes I get it right but definitely not as consistent as I would like definitely taking these tips on board

[@Flashback_Jack]

You are the man. Seriously.

[@jawoody9745]

Your videos are priceless!

[@countorringtonludlow5211]

Mcompare is the way for me personally. Assign one macro to toggle between tracks (like the vid shows) and assign the other to bypass the effect. I love keeping the bypass assigned to a dedicated fader/knob separate from my Push 2. So I can quickly a/b with one hand on a controller while the other tweaks a sound on the Push to get it closer. There is also a way to do this with Ableton where you don't sacrifice your send/returns. 1. Put all your reference tracks on the same channel and vol adjust/etc 2. Open Ableton's crossfader and assign that channel to B 3. Assign every other track in your project to A 4. Map the crossfader to a knob on your controller. 5. Make some more adjustments to how it's mapped if you want it to be an instant switch instead of a crossfade. This goes through your master bus. So disable any pseudo mastering rack you've got going on. Which is probably a good idea regardless. You don't want to boost your mix via master bus effects to match a turned down reference track. Since you'll be presumably disabling that mastering rack before you send it off to a mastering engineer. This isn't a method to become a mastering engineer or try to compete with that degree of loudness. It's a way to do quick vibe checks for respected sonic ballparks.

[@philColour]

Excellent advice, I love how Oscar explains these more boring/annoying yet incredibly important aspects of music production!

[@Tyler-zf2gj]

“Random constellation of triangles and nonsense” definitely describes my music

[@OscarUnderdog]

Hahahahahaha 😂

[@Sm4rtS.L1nk]

Stuff you make always blows me away

[@nothininterestinn]

"Draw a bicycle" is a great party game after a few drinks. "How are you supposed to steer this? Where are the pedals? Why do you have a triangle here? Have you ever seen a bicycle before?"

[@paulfarrell4833]

Legend needed this in my life

[@synthiejunkie]

Another great video with a good explanation. I think it's good that you always show a practical example. I can only confirm from my own experience that referencing helps to better adapt my track.

[@TJLawton]

Hey Oscar, I watched this video a few days ago and I'm so glad I did. I've gone back and re-mixed a few unreleased tracks of mine using references and it's made an insane difference. I got mcompare too and MIDI mapped the selection tool to a knob my push 2, shits been great, thanks bro!

[@brucemillar]

Another great video and lesson, thanks Oscar and all at Underdog!

[@jack15gpd]

Cheers for the vid Oscair. Great advice as always.

[@toddwmac]

A great video Oscar. I've learned so much from you I've added Ableton to my Studio One toolset just so I can follow along with your videos even more closely. Much appreciation as always.

[@KRAD1469]

Best music production channel on KZbin! So many channels I've watched before teach you how to make a sound. But by the end I'm still super lost in the 'why' they chose the effects they did or why they adjusted a parameter on a synth. This channel does so well to tie everything together.

[@sqguitar]

Top stuff Oscar! Made me purchase the Melda MCompare. I tried it for free for about an hour and realised it was indispensable. On a great discount now, especially with extra first purchase credit as well. Huge thanks to you for the wonderful tutorial.

[@Cha0z19]

I'm totally aware of the importance of referecing, it actually helped me improve a lot and learn aswell. The problem with this, for me, is that constant of thought of not being "original"...

[@bryantwalley]

Never let a defined genre or reference define what's coming out from inside your soul. Stay true to your inner sound.

[@slunkzilla]

You're not original anyway, none of us are. Being honest to ourselves with referencing at least will make you better.

[@Letzal]

The painter does not think of inventing new colors. He thinks of choosing them and shaping them. Musician's color palette is the audible spectrum and time his or her canvas.🖤

[@joek2073]

The "random soundworld" is my niche 😁👍 Also, I can draw bicycles ✌️ Great vid! I think this would have helped me in the beginning. Great tips 🙌

[@joecheeks3451]

So incredibly helpful, thank you!

[@el-artista-marginado]

Nice philosophy. .thanks!

[@eliecrespin6629]

I find your videos so helpful it's amazing. I learn so much. I have one comment about your "visual workflow" though. You have a wide usage of groups in Ableton (e.g. OscarMaster / Reference Tracks or Kick Dry / Rumble or Hihat Dry / Delay). It's obviously working, but I find it a crazy visual pollution, both in the Session View and in the Arragnement view. For instance for the Kick/Rumble tracks, one can simply group them in an effect rack and have exactly the same result. Same for the reference track / Master issue. One can "simply" group all the effects you've put in the master in a effect rack, and have your shortcut soloing the Reference Track turning on/off the effect rack (and would also allow to use the returns track again). It's obviously a subjective thing (and I'm much on the order freak side here haha). But in arrangement view, this allows to avoid having all these empty lines and I find it much easier to find my way in my set since I found this way to remove them. I'm still really much a beginner, so maybe one has comments on that.

[@Baboonery_]

loving your videos - some of the best education-wise

[@TerenceKearns]

MCompare is great. I should use it more often. Thanks for the reminder.

[@JayThomasofficial]

Thank you so much for this ( and all of them ) you’re the man

[@mradamcshaw]

I've never referenced because I've just preferred to just randomly create and see where I end up. Not referencing has admittedly derailed me from my predetermined objective on occasion. What I regularly do though is use Izotope Tonal Balance in the master chain. I have also used TDR Slick EQ M and referenced with Pink Noise in the master channel.

[@verstyledj]

This is exactly what I've been doing but as soon as I sent my tracks to someone who's opinion I trust and that runs a label, they said I need to use reference tracks.

[@el-artista-marginado]

I m a beginner..but i save the track as a WAV file and compare..theb take notes...i like your srtraightforwardness to teach...cool

[@hamadiseif86]

Thank you so much sir for this amazing advices

[@long_guy]

love it!

[@trippdaly8262]

I never considered using a reference track while producing. That’s a nice idea I’m gonna implement on my next project. Cheers!

[@samkenny3075]

Alright. I'll do it. Haha-- thanks for the tips! Super helpful once again--

[@Tyblubearboy]

Nice one Oscar... I'll check out your Soundcloud!!

[@nkuzzzmin]

Thx!

[@johnmadison52]

great video!

[@kristianTV1974]

For Ableton, how about using A for all your tracks including sends, then put the reference on B, you can then use the x-fader on the master channel for near instantaneous crossfading of your track and reference?

[@sausausaus]

thank you!

[@cryseek_mrktn]

thank you Oscar!! exactly what you are talking about is my problem now! great explanation! BiG UP Underdog EMS! ps. this track from reason :O woow :)!

[@DISCOTEKED]

so very generous of you to risk demonetizing the video for the valuable lesson :) Although I use logic and do my referencing similar to the Ableton you showed, new points of view are always helpful :) thank you

[@thorstenh.4750]

Metric AB from Plugin Alliance is a great Plug in for this

[@douglaslove1422]

Was going to say this! Surprised more people not mentioning it. It even matches LUFS levels automatically

[@IncredibleScienceLive]

Great information in here thank you! Just wanted to add one thing, if your reference track is not in same bpm and key it's hard to get proper results in my opinion. 💫

[@jameshulst993]

Thanks :)

[@viktor-]

great content, straight to the point, veel informatie. groeten van de guy bij bicep fuse.

[@co.jay_9359]

Thanks 👍

[@tomsoust9877]

Oscar! Could we pls get a UK Garage tutorial. You're perfect for the job

[@geryverlinden6843]

Hi Oscar, Some thoughts on the referencing in Ableton , you can select on your reference track audio channel to send the audio directly to the output and bypassing the master. then you can leave your master channel as it is and switch off the reference channel,then hit the solo button to switch between reference track and your track.(also mapable) If I am not mistakken, not an expert ..

[@OscarUnderdog]

You're right! But with videorecording & teaching workflows that's not very practical for me specifically so I forget about it sometimes :)

[@mikepalka8517]

Hi Oscar! I've been matching the peak levels of my reference track not the rms lol. I use your set-up of putting all my tracks in a "pre-master/mix bus" group and to give me the option of still having sends and using the quick referencing technique, I rout all the send track outs to a "send return" track that's in the pre-master group. Great vid/info as always!🙏

[@OscarUnderdog]

I tried this too, but then suddenly you can't solo the return channel :D so annoying!

[@SSape]

I luv you UD.❤️

[@sramirez1906]

Do you produce and edit these tutorials on your own, Oscar? Because if you do that's impressive. The background music is so subtle that it actually complements your speech. You're also a great teacher. I love that you share songs that you're working on. I'm looking forward to taking the boot camp when I get a chance.

[@avationmusic]

Instructions unclear, drew a bicycle on my master

[@TheSFHAA]

To keep sends in your workflow in Live, you can route the output of all sends to an audio track in OscarMaster called 'Return FX Track'. Just make sure to disable all sends on the Return FX Track and the OscarMaster track otherwise you will have a latency issue.

[@justynwclark]

I seriously sat down this week and tried to figure out how to exactly use reference tracks, or even how to specifically choose them. You’ve given me a ton of insight on this topic. Thank you for all of the knowledge that you give. Does your underdog classes include teaching in Cubase?

[@OscarUnderdog]

Sadly I never use cubase! Maybe in the future :)

[@joneshalter6027]

@@OscarUnderdog what about FL studio? 😁

[@diegolondono93]

This is something I always lack to do until the mix down

[@mirowalker]

Great video, but... Reason looks absolutely mental! I'm not 100% sure if in a good way or a bad way, but wow.

[@OscarUnderdog]

Hahahaha sometimes I doubt as well. But then the results I get from it always sway me to the positive side 😂

[@OfficialCutter]

legend, my favorite KZbin learning resource, so clesr and transparent. question: Do you sometimes set borders with reference tracks, as in :"this track has almost a bit too much high end for my taste" vs another track has maybe" a little too much sub "for your taste to dial it in or do you just trust your favorite artists/ mixing engineers? hope this makes sense. thanks so much for the content

[@OscarUnderdog]

Yeah totally! Sometimes you notice a difference between your track and the reference, but you prefer your version, which is great :) then at least you feel somehow objective & "in control" of what you're putting out into the world.

[@challism]

Nice sneak peek of the Baseline Generator. Oops!

[@OscarUnderdog]

🙊

[@pltndbnn]

Woof Woof!

[@dennisvanopstal7360]

I only reference when im stuck with the mixdown. And when i reference i just take a track in said genre that i load in my DAW or a quick check from KZbin or Spotify. So i only reference for the Mixdown. How everything sits in the mix. Not to "copy" something, ofcourse i have my inspirations. once i get somewhere im finishing that song from there. And im not changing it towards the reference track.

[@coldprojectofficial]

I usually Map the Q on my keyboard to soloing the reference track. Makes things super fast to switch.

[@JoshuaDontJust]

Thank you for your work. Your videos are such a great help 💛 really wish the best for you & this channel 💫👑🙌🙂

[@bruhzooka]

mcompare the shizzy

[@ALifeTheKidd]

You can make the Reference Track set to EXTERNAL OUT so it doesnt pass through the Master... Then you can Use the Sends & Returns & use the Master Chain...

[@mattwillems5158]

This is a great video. Everything you do is top notch. What don't you like about Beatport's business model?

[@OscarUnderdog]

They take a big cut for themselves, and they allow you to buy the same song twice, and only download it once. Bandcamp will at least tell you that you're buying a duplicate, and allows infinite downloads! It says a lot about the underlying values of the companies.

[@mattwillems5158]

@@OscarUnderdog Thank you, I work at Beatport and will bring this up in a meeting to see if there's anything we can do better. Loving your videos. Keep it up.

[@OscarUnderdog]

@@mattwillems5158 Oh wow! Hope I didn't come across as rude then :D Yeah the double purchasing/re-downloading thing is a big one for me, as it seems like a simple anti-user/pro-profit measure that would be trivial to fix. Thanks for transmitting this!

[@mattwillems5158]

@@OscarUnderdog No worries my friend. I've copy pasted our conversation and will submit it.

[@B-a_s-H]

Golden advice. btw. No affiliate link for MCompare? I might just grab that one.

[@OscarUnderdog]

Nope, no relationship with them :) but grab it anyway if you think it suits the workflow! Often goes on sale too.

[@kevinloughrey4448]

Hi Oscar. Very informative video, as always. I typically use Pro-Q on the master with reference as the input, to compare the 2 frequency distributions. Can this be used as a substitute for comparing the RMS? In otherwords, of the total amplitude (not necessarily the distribution) of all the frequencies in both are somewhat equal? Or does the non linearity of the EQ mean you should just use RMS?

[@fatherWolt]

You never realize how much streaming services sacrifice until you listen to a Bandcamp release holy hell.

[@tonescapes9673]

Any chance of doing a Propellorheads Europa synth please.done alot in subtractive synths.been working my way through it,but get I'm a bit stuck using envelopes&getting full control of the sound.anyway,thanks

[@maxpecas2]

Amazing content like always. Seems the link to 'ever brighter' doesn't work anymore. Anyway to find this track on other streaming platform? It seems awesome.

[@OscarUnderdog]

It's called Face the Sun now 😁 on soundcloud and Instagram!

[@maxpecas2]

@@OscarUnderdog thanks a lot mate, loved the songs and this zendaya edit is awesome! BUT!... I didn't find the specific tune on this "referencing" video, I guess not yet released? (sorry if I missed something)

[@f_stop]

Shoutout to cups of tea!

[@OscarUnderdog]

I'm having one right now, who would have thought

[@howardsmith6587]

ok dad....seriously though great video

[@FredericVCthinking]

Oscar, because it's my name 😂😂😂

[@brianzimmerman6774]

In terms of sends/returns, could that issue be fixed by just routing the ref track to Ext Out?

[@postmortem3973]

Isn't it possible to route the sends into the Oscar Master instead of the Master?

[@Shape890]

What do you think of izotope's reference mastering?

[@italiangreyhound9091]

where to get @small speaker simulator@?

[@tri-unetrl3966]

What do you think about Spotify? Would that be okay?

[@lenglain]

This seems like such a complicated workflow. I just have a separate track with my reference track muted, and toggle it on with the solo button to compare. (In Reason).

[@SvintMvrcus]

I don’t understand why there’s no option to send return tracks to groups in Ableton. I always have to bounce my tracks out and do the actual mixing and mastering in pro tools which disrupts the workflow.

[@thomas.moerman]

LOOOL I did the bicycle thing with my dad, the thing he drew wouldn't make it 100 feet far ;-D

[@OscarUnderdog]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@TerenceKearns]

What midi controller is that? looks dope!

[@OscarUnderdog]

Faderfox!

[@TerenceKearns]

@@OscarUnderdog cheers. It's definitely on the menu. Thanks!

[@KevinVillageStone]

I know even Izotope says your ears are the final authority and software only gets you in the ballpark. But have you ever used the process of taking a reference track and read it through an RTA and use that as a second reference towards matching the reference track's EQ profile? - Thanks! Second question: buying ref tracks from Spotify, Bandcamp, etc are usually a 320k MP3 which is roughly 1/10th of the original WAV/AIFF. Have you found any difference between referencing with a 320k MP3 versus the original WAV/AIFF (assuming 24bit/48k-96k)? In my work, I deliver tracks in 96k/24bit. Thanks again!

[@arjanpetersen]

I use ext.out for the reference track. Isn’t that easier?

[@OscarUnderdog]

True, that - though I use sonarworks and often want to run both tracks through the same analysis tools. But you're right.

[@gusbergans]

What MIDI controller is that? I've been looking for something that size for a while!