Refuting Fr. Martin on "Discrimination" and Gay Catholic Teachers

[@halleylujah247]

Fr James Martin: "People should not discriminate based on ideas we don't agree with. " Also Fr James Martin. : I have half of Christian Twitter blocked because they disagree with me .

[@BrewMeister27]

That's because the actual Fr James Martin standard is: "People should not discriminate based on ideas *I* don't agree with." And he's perfectly consistent with applying that standard.

[@morbier4863]

Blocking someone on Twitter and firing someone from job is different tho

[@OrthoLou]

@@morbier4863 the point is he has zero tolerance for those who disagree with his leftist nonsense.

[@Artaxian_Debacle]

I have that badge of honor of being one of the blocked Catholics

[@ripbeni6198]

@@Artaxian_Debacle😂

[@delainelutz4705]

As a Catholic educator, I sign an oath of fidelity to the Magisterium and am proud to do so. We should treasure our Catholic faith above all else. Thank you Trent Horn for teaching, articulating, and defending the faith. God bless you!

[@bernardevillaw3410]

You should have treasured Jesus above your catholic pedophile faith, but you don't. 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics. Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic.

[@jakobsolito2559]

As one of the students at Brebeuf in 2019, it rlly was a difficult time to be a practicing Catholic. The majority of students disagreed with the archbishop and were angry about it, and they expected everyone else to feel the same way. It caused some rifts between me and my friends bc I wanted to defend the archbishops statement. Even personally, it was tough because he was my favorite teacher, he was a role model, and he was fun, too. To this day, I am still thankful for the life lessons he taught me and the fun memories we had. However, as a Catholic, it was tough to see someone I loved so much promote such a lifestyle and to see it in such a positive light. He would tell us a lot about his relationship and make jokes about his sexuality to us. I pray for Brebeuf bc even though it’s a Jesuit school it seems like a Catholic school, the emphasis on diversity and open-mindedness also makes it hard to be Catholic there. Most recently, some students were tearing down my sister’s pro-life club posters bc they disagreed with it.

[@martywilliard]

Diversity and Equity only matters if it follows the narrative. Pro Life - heterosexuality - one man / one woman sacramental marriage … etc - doesn’t fit the narrative anymore. Sad

[@karenglenn2329]

You are in my prayers. You will never regret defending the Catholic faith.

[@ignatiusjackson235]

Cheers to you, brother. It's crazy how people wind up showing their true colors as soon as these topics arise, even in the midst of an otherwise pleasant discussion. I'm not what anybody would call a conservative as it pertains to anything apart from abortion and LGBT-issues, but I've had people in my life, people who I thought were good friends (who were much further to the right of me economically) scream at the top of their lungs that I'm a "fascist" simply because I adhere to basic Church teachings on these two issues. It's very, very strange. As painful as it can be, you just need to let those people fall by the wayside if that's what they want. Be always ready to forgive, but don't let it bring you down in the mean time. Hang in there, and God bless!

[@OrthoLou]

The clip in the beginning of people acting shocked and appalled over a Catholic school expecting teachers to NOT go directly against Catholic doctrine (especially on public platforms) is just... aggravating. I'm also so sick of the "love and acceptance" cop out.

[@ironymatt]

It's dishonest.

[@LauraBeeDannon]

Its not real

[@ViscountDI]

When she says that the doctrine is "outdated in the world we live in", she is absolutely correct. The "world we live in" is a culture is that is completely corrupted by pride. I'm proud to be someone who holds the "outdated" beliefs that all Christians have held for 2000 years, as opposed to the modern culture that idolizes sin.

[@woutermortier2771]

Great. Do you eat shrimp or wear mixed fabrics? I guess so. Those are sins as well so prepare to burn according to the scripture you love so much. Great book isn't it

[@ViscountDI]

@@woutermortier2771 Very original reply, never heard that one before! Maybe you should watch some Trent Horn videos instead of just trolling his comment section. Edit: to actually address these cliche "takedowns", I'm Christian, not Jewish. The New Covenant established by Christ superceded the Old Testament Mosaic covenant, so we Christians aren't concerned with what we eat or wear since we are not concerned about being set apart from other groups like the Jews were (which was the point of those rules - group identity and solidarity). These rules have been abrogated by Christ since (see Matthew 15) since Christianity is for all people.

[@woutermortier2771]

@@ViscountDI New covenant is great isn't it. Those pesky 10 commandments can be thrown right out the door. Now you are allowed to follow other gods too. I wonder why that commandment existed in the first place. It kinda sounds like there are other gods, doesn't it? Not as if the bible is consistent anyhow.

[@ViscountDI]

​@@woutermortier2771 You're making less sense as you go along. Good luck with trolling people in KZbin comment sections, Incel

[@kellyepperson1619]

​@@woutermortier2771 🤦‍♂️

[@Kaleb.F]

As a soon to be convert who is enjoying the clear instruction of the Church, I struggle to understand folks who seem to rebel against it's basic teachings. I know there will always be disagreements, but sexual morality and abortion are beyond settled matters. It must be a truly painful cognitive dissonance if you believe otherwise and haven't left the Church. Praying for unity, especially on matters so fundamental to the faith.

[@johnharkness6304]

Kaleb, from a Catholic Baptised at 4 days old!! believe me, you have made a wonderful life changing choice. The church is in a bit of a muddle at the moment, not the first time by any means, in it's very long and sometimes troubled history. You're in good company, Therese de Lisieux, Bishop Fulton Sheen, GK Chesterton, St Thomas More and a host of other wonderful people, even poor old John Wayne came in, late, before he mosied on into the next world. Courage, and always hope..

[@merelychristian8325]

100% agree!

[@bernardevillaw3410]

You joined this child rape cult KNOWING that it was the world's largest child rape cult?? 330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because people EXPECT that from catholics. Jesus said child rape was UNFORGIVABLE (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone who supported it will get eternal damnation. That means every single catholic.

[@TrixRN]

@@merelychristian8325Hi Anna! 👋 I enjoy seeing you at some of my favorite KZbinrs 😊❤️I can’t wait to see your next upload. God bless you.🙏❤️

[@TrixRN]

@@JudeMalachi You are so right! When I was discerning the Church the sex abuse scandal was hitting the news a 2nd time. I kept hearing all this old stuff brought up over & over again by “news” agencies. It made me stop & think. Why were people trying so hard to bring down the Church? Part of it I concluded was diabolical influence & that confirmed my view as the Church is Truth. I also studied the history of the Church. That helped too. Not to deny how horrendous the scandals were, because they were & justice needed to be done. In my mind it didn’t indict the Church, but the evil of Man no matter what role he played in the Church.

[@andreramire1024]

Babe wake up Trent Horn just posted

[@kragar4]

😂😂😂😂

[@ddrse]

You can be LGBT and Catholic 👨‍❤️‍👨

[@shady1234shady]

@@ddrse ? Depending on what way you mean

[@ddrse]

@@shady1234shady God is the creator of everything. What more are you tempted to know?

[@kragar4]

@@ddrse yes, living chastely

[@UnlikelyLDS]

"If the world is against the truth, then I am against the world." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

[@victorzea1455]

100% correct. Fr. Martin is a Scandal to the CC he should be given a choice #1 Stop all this nonsense advocating a homosexual agenda within the CC. #2 If not, then he should be defrocked for advocating the sin of Sodomy which is a mortal sin. #3 He cherry picks the Gospels and he makes up Scriptures to defend his false narrative. #4 Where is his Bishop on this matter? #5 Jesus Christ did not defend homosexuality at any time during his early ministry. #6 Let him defend his case in a Church trial.

[@deusvult7559]

I'm reading Desert Christians by William Harmless and from everything I've read so far Athanasius was an AMAZING man.

[@ignatiusjackson235]

Contra mundo, baby!! 🎉😂🎉

[@francikoen]

There is a difference between *private and public sin.* Until an LGBTQ teacher makes their *sin public,* there is not a necessity to fire them. Firing a teacher, who commits public sin is *a just discrimination.*

[@kaiserredgamer8943]

You wouldn't let a drug addict or paedophile work as a teacher at your school, right? Same logic applies towards known homosexuals.

[@jackhohne6163]

Why wouldn’t you fire a private mortal sinner from teaching your children?

[@kaiserredgamer8943]

@@jackhohne6163 Nonsensical question, I'm afraid. How would I know if the teacher is a grave sinner if he/she never reveals anything? (And if I can't find anything suspicious regarding him/her as well)

[@BrewMeister27]

It depends what you mean by "public." Are you referring to sins that are external or sins that are publicly known? Because for many of these gay teachers, their homosexual relationships were external but not publicly known. Once they became publicly known, the administers fired them. To Trent's point, I can sympathize with the teachers that felt their hiring was under false pretenses. So instead of pubic vs private sin, I think Catholic institutions should refuse to hire anyone living in a state of unrepentant, grave sin. And if applicants choose to lie during the interview process, at least they'll know the consequences if the truth comes out.

[@kaiserredgamer8943]

@@BrewMeister27 You have a point.

[@merelychristian8325]

Something that attracts me to the Catholic faith is clarity on these issues, so I’m happy to see this school applied church teaching in this case, even though it is emotionally difficult. As long as this same standard is applied across the board. However, this same line of thought causes me to be confused about Fr. Martin’s position in the church and I wonder how long a priest can deny the church’s teachings before action is taken against him?

[@TheCounselofTrent]

You're right to be confused by Fr Martin's actions. These issues are very clearly settled by the Church. As for how long a priest can deny the Church's teaching before action is taken, God only knows. At the end of his life, he'll have to face his judgement though. For that reason, we are called to pray for him because he will have much to account for at the end of his life. -Kyle

[@jamesisaacson6379]

@The Counsel of Trent question can you explain purgatory to me and who go to purgatory like give checklist of requirements to go there like what does some have to do like give someone was heading to hell what do they have to do to go to purgatory?

[@kellyepperson1619]

@@jamesisaacson6379 if a person dies in a state of grace (i.e. not in a state of mortal sin because they have repented and been reconciled through Christ as often as they commit mortal sin), they are going to heaven. However, most of us may still have venial sins, attachments to sin, or flaws in our holiness that need to be purified (purged) before we can enter into heaven. Those of us for whom the above statements are true experience purgatory in order to be made fully ready for heaven through the love of God. Be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ and the Church and sacraments he gave us, and strive to grow in holiness throughout your life. If, by the grace of Jesus Christ you are fully ready to enter heaven when you die, you will. If you die in a state of grace but imperfectly ready for heaven, God will purify you, purging you of all flaws in holiness through His love. Then you will enter heaven. Purgatory is a possible (likely) step on the journey to heaven, rather than a destination in and of itself.

[@jessy8a10]

​@@kellyepperson1619I explained purgatory to my niece by telling her: We are born with beautiful clean clothes. Every sin we make, it is a spot of dirt in our clothes. When we confess and we are in grace but the spot isn't completely gone. When we die (in grace) we need to be clean in front of our creator. So we need to pass to the washing machine ( purgatory). She understood it perfectly hehe 😅 Sorry English isn't my first language

[@josephmiller4204]

There’s a difference, Fr Martin, between having sinned and walking the path of repentance vs having sinned but unrepentantly digging into it-and flaunting it as a point of controversy in order to wave your flag of false virtue.

[@ironymatt]

Also, when he phrases actions against alphabet behavior as "selective" he's engaging in a sleight of hand. Prioritizing levels of immorality is always necessary, and immediately clarifies the confusion he attempts to sew with his false equivalency arguments

[@MrPeach1]

Good job holding our shepherds to account.

[@MrPeach1]

@@Roman-Labrador I am not a Bishop so you would have to ask them. I know that being slick about how we discuss grave sin is not helping with what the reality is. Being ambiguous in your teaching is not in line with the way Jesus was he would not waffle on the truth. Go read John 6 he let's everyone walk away rather the soften the teaching.

[@HowToBeChristian]

I like the challenge for Fr. Martin: 16:06 👍

[@TheCounselofTrent]

Listen, this rivalry isn’t going to last long if you keep coming in here saying nice things. -Kyle

[@HowToBeChristian]

@@TheCounselofTrent Sorry, Trent is my first nemesis. I'm still a bit shaky on the rules. My bad.

[@mikesarno7973]

This exchange just made my day. Thank you both.

[@jeremysmith7176]

@@HowToBeChristian I'd say Trent (Kyle) acknowledging the rivalry is a win. That and Trent having recommended your videos before.

[@TheCounselofTrent]

@@jeremysmith7176 I'll be honest, I've been a fan of HTBC for a while, so interacting with him in the comments is one of my favorite things about this job. Don't tell Ferris though... -Kyle

[@nchinth]

it's not possible to discriminate against people for engaging in VOLUNTARY behaviour.

[@forethink]

It’s more important that it is immoral than that it is voluntary. After all, normal sexual behavior is also voluntary.

[@woutermortier2771]

Voluntary you say? You try being gay as a choice. Oh, you can't? That's because it is not a choice! Who would choose being gay around people who think like you. Nobody because it makes life harder for no other reason than bigots.

[@GustavoAndresHerrera]

I'll point out, just because is relevant, that discriminating is NOT wrong in itself (is separating one thing from the other, and in this context what is fit for purpose and what is not). What is wrong is to discriminate for the wrong reasons. That's the difference between discriminating by height in a basketball team (appropriate) and doing the same in an office job (inappropriate).

[@woutermortier2771]

@@GustavoAndresHerrera discrimination is also the unjust or prejudicial treatment of people. You can call your basketball/office situation discrimination but the main issue in that situation is if the height criteria is important to do the job. It's about being capable to do the job in a good way. Being lgbtqia+ says nothing about the skills of a teacher. So this kind of discrimination is of the unjust kind, not the choice kind you call it. It's hidden bigotry because it fit's the narrative you like.

[@GustavoAndresHerrera]

@@woutermortier2771 you're missing the point. It's a Catholic school. You have to be Catholic and TRY to live like one to be a teacher there. If you've CHOSEN to live a different life, that's your choice but that disqualifies you to be a Catholic teacher in a Catholic school.

[@EpoRose1]

I can’t judge someone’s heart, but it’s hard to imagine Fr. Martin truly doesn’t understand the difference between someone who doesn’t donate to a charity on a regular basis and someone who is in a public homosexual relationship.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

He knows, he's just a subversive who subscribes to the contemporary state religion

[@robertp881]

He’s just another infiltrator that made it through. It’s so simple. He wants to inch-by-inch move the church’s overton window in the direction of complete degeneracy. Trent took it so easy on him. God the Father and God the Son weren’t near as nice about homosexuality.

[@noahbenson29]

@TheCounselofTrent Very helpful, indeed! Thanks for clarifying things so well as you do!

[@TheMobius011]

I question the motives of those whom willingly engage in homosexual acts seeking a job within the catholic church, knowing full well its prohibited

[@annb9029]

To take the church down is the goal

[@jaqian]

It's like the gay cake, I heard they drove past loads of bakeries to single out the one Christian one to put them out of business.

[@milliesoccer777]

My husband joined Cathedral the year after the "scandalous" firing. My husband went in praising the admin for their decision, and ironically eventually probably got pushed out because he was too Catholic for the school. There were some great, strong Catholics in the leadership when he started, and by the time he left, the changing of the guard nearly made the school Catholic in Name Only. He met some great people, but now the strong Catholic teachers have nearly either left or been pushed out. Hard to see it as the school making the decision just to keep the $$ 🫤

[@jessy8a10]

That is so sad.

[@Ban-mw9vl]

Fr. Martin’s speech sounds like it relies on gaslighting his audience to make his point 🙁 if he is giving these public talks, will he engage Catholic apologists? Would be interesting to see his behavior in a debate/discussion with Trent

[@TheJmlew11]

When I was a seminarian, the seminary invited him to have a discussion about LGBT issues persons in the Church. He agreed to it, but pulled out the moment he knew he would share the stage with the Chaplin to the organization Courage.

[@Ban-mw9vl]

@@TheJmlew11 😧😧 oh my I have to increase my Rosaries

[@ponti5882]

The thing I find mindboggling is how and why anyone openly living a homosexual lifestyle would ever want to work for a religious institution that is explicitly and unambiguously against such lifestyle. The question “is this going to be a problem” seems self-evidently distasteful and offensive, even absent formal repercussions, and I find it hard to believe that anyone that seeks to enter such an environment under those circumstances does so in good faith. Could it really be that these jobs are so well paying that these persons are willing to ignore the glaring inflammatory nature of the circumstances involved? While possible, I find that difficult to reconcile.

[@caterinadc5567]

The accurate identification of all religious school staff as "lay ministers" is the key to this whole topic. Whether a school is Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, or Catholic, faithful families who make significant sacrifices to pay for (what they believe will be) authentic faithful education (including faithful example, as children learn primarily by example) have a right to receive this. If a staff member can help support the school's religious mission with integrity (based on definitions set by the _religion_ not invented by disagreeing staff members), then there can be a place for them. But if a staff member is going to actively work against the religious mission of the school by openly modelling counterexamples or preaching contradictory ideas (by word or deed), then there cannot be a place for them. And I honestly think every honest person knows this, and honest teachers don't mind it. Only dishonest people mind this (and those with hardcore agendas to undermine and subvert religions by planting deliberately contradictory staff.)

[@Polones12]

My children go to Catholic school for a reason...not to be exposed to multi-letter propaganda or practices.

[@alqoshgirl]

Same here!

[@Polones12]

@@brodicox2031 some "Catholic" that is

[@MatrixRefugee]

I was homeschooled, partly to keep me away from the letter propaganda. Guess what? Some of the letters fit me. It's almost as if some of the letters are part of a person's nature and not something you can just ignore or pretend it just doesn't exist and expect it will go away. Yes, I've prayed about it. No, God didn't make me suddenly turn into a girly girl who loves dresses and makeup and wants to be a housewife with a pewful of kids.

[@brianfarley926]

Yeah same with me. Still gotta watch them like a Hawk also. I routinely tell my child if an teacher or other adult teaches you something and tells you NOT to tell me, make sure you do so I can handle it

[@MatrixRefugee]

@@Polones12 Catholic in the full sense, as in 'universal', as in embracing all humans with all their diversity and beauty, instead of expecting them to be paper doll copies of some bland model that no real human could realistically embody.

[@Ajas0810]

Yep I live in Indianapolis. I remember when this happened a few years ago. The locals were going crazy. But the church did what was right.

[@Mrs_Homemaker]

Our school "hires on mission". We have a mission statement (including living in Church guidelines). If you are not on mission, you dont get hired. It has made a massive difference in our school.

[@TheCounselofTrent]

That sounds like a fantastic practice. -Kyle

[@gregorythibeau153]

As a Catholic Acadian I share a long history of Persecution that we suffered for both being French and Catholic...We just wanted to live our life and serve our God..As a young boy my day was told that he wasn't American if he didn't speak English....To this day I remain connected to my culture and part of that is Catholic. People have no idea of persecution till you can see that it's part of your history...It has served to make me stronger in my faith...We have been here since 1604...I love Christ,I pray everyday for Christ to go in and improve me for I'm weak and He is strong

[@nofragmentado]

When you are going to work in at any place, you sign a contract with their agreements. But when we tried to be dishonest and think they are not going to find out, is when we feel like victims and In top of that we tried to make noise for others to support something that we brake from the beginning and now we are whining 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@markscannell865]

It is simple, if you work for a Catholic school or attend a Catholic school as a student, you are expected to live a life faithful to the Catholic faith. If a heterosexual employee makes it public that he cohabitates he will be let go. The thing is things like that are not frequently made public. It is largely homosexual relations that become know.

[@eddardgreybeard]

Cynically enough, might i add, _hoping_ for this reaction

[@jeremias-serus]

@@directinprint Which is a separate matter.

[@woutermortier2771]

It's almost as if they use double standards, isn't it? 🙄

[@anitra7747]

It grieves me that people are duped by the lie of “I’m different”. We are all indeed unique, but we have a common adversary who seeks to divide us from God and each other. He is crafty and uses our experiences and our emotions against us in his conquest to injure God by separating us from His Truth. He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. I pray for those who are seeking an identity other than that of created in the image of God. There can be no other form of identification more pertinent, and dignifying than that.

[@ironymatt]

Very true. Also, and despite many influential voices clamoring to the contrary, sexuality isn't a legitimate basis for a person's identity. Sexual behavior is a corollary to human identity, but it's maddening how much some people - especially political leaders who should know better and at one time absolutely did know better - have been duped into thinking everything's about sex.

[@MalleusEcclesiae]

Out of curiosity, why does the Church allow him (Fr. James Martin) to still hold his position or any corrupt / infiltrated Catholic schools? Why is evil that can be removed being casually tolerated?

[@BrewMeister27]

Can't really expect Catholic schools to hire faithful teachers if the Church hierarchy won't insist on having faithful priests 🙄

[@kenkuchnicki9012]

Good question. Probably because the church has been infiltrated at more levels than just Fr Martin’s

[@edorasmarauder5761]

I heard he was excommunicated a long time ago.

[@OrthoLou]

He doesn't even deserve the Fr. title at this point... Spiritual Fathers actually HELP people, not lead them astray.

[@jpanduezadlf]

I don't think a teacher should be fired from a Catholic school for sinning. I think a teacher should be fired for teaching people to live with and in sin as it were good.

[@lusttravel1247]

We’ve failed in Catechesis when we have Katholics who believe same sex “marriages” are within the realm of their Katholic faith. We have failed when we have groups like “Katholics” for choice…thanks be to the Lord for good and authentic Catholics like Trent and men and women who truly stand for our Catholic faith.

[@edorasmarauder5761]

Catholics*

[@hacker4chn841]

As a Villanova grad, I'm ashamed that Fr. Martin spoke there when I was a student!

[@stooch66]

There are many faithful Jesuits, but the fact that Fr Martin is so obstinate and that the Jesuit order continued to fund that school after the diocese stopped is causing serious scandal.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

This is weird. I run a Jesuit school. The order does not provide any funds. We, in fact, have to pay taxes to the order. (Unrelated, my school will not employ same-sex "married" people)

[@stooch66]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ always appreciate what you do, Fr Brown. But, how are we average lay people, who are struggling with our own sexual sins, to take all of this? Near me, a Catholic high school was pressured into keeping a same sex “married” lacrosse coach, and it did. The Benedictines, who established it long ago, decided to break away from the school, as they no longer could control it. How does the Jesuit order not call him and others to account? Instead, there seems to be tacit approval of his moral relativism as he continues to be the most famous Jesuit non-pope. For many, he has become the de facto spokesman, like it or not. There is no doubt that he is creating great scandal for the faithful. Why should we be faithful to any of the Church’s teachings when someone so prominent questions dozens of them? He’s not just questioning this one, he is calling it unjust discrimination! It is very hard to hear.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

@@stooch66 I'm with you. Has it really harmed your faith, though? Are you tempted more to those sins than you would have been otherwise? I think that's why he's given so much room. I think well intentioned leaders think he's reaching out to people on the margins who would otherwise think God can't love them, while not leading regular guys into any worse sins than we already contend with. That's at least the best answer I can come up with. My own strategy for sanctity is to stay close to Christ, His Church, follow her teachings and rules, complete my assignment ordered by my religious order - and stay away from Fr. JM, Dr. TM etc...

[@stooch66]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ I have the same approach. I stay on the barque and close to the Church. Has it hurt my faith? I would probably say no…but there is creeping doubtful thoughts that come up now and again when I see what he says and how accepted it seems to be by the hierarchy. As Michael Lofton says, there is a major need for Church discipline. My mother-in-law just died in a prominent Jesuit hospital. In the waiting area of the ICU, there is a large crucifix. I took heart in that for about 3 seconds before I looked down at the two individual bathrooms it was above and saw two signs saying “All Gender Bathroom.” Now, I know that is some administrators, but how does the average disengaged layperson not see that and think, “oh, that is supported by the Church.” They could have just used “restroom,” but it was critical for them to use “all gender.” It is a statement. And no religious administrator pushed against it? Seems to suggest support. So often it is what is not said more than what IS said. However, I know for a fact that he is giving license to others for their sins. When our parochial vicar gave a very orthodox homily confronting the faithful for participating in a planned kids’ drag queen bingo, I saw many of the parishioners go on Facebook and say that he doesn’t represent the Church! That there are liberal parishes that teach acceptance and “love.” Some even pointed to Fr Martin as the guiding light. I responded by saying that you will always have to confront the catechism, so shopping for priests who teach what you want is just hiding from Christ’s Church (and I say the same to the rad trad types). But why is that even a thing? I am seeing many people who aren’t as engaged in the faith as I am being taught that there are other interpretations to scripture and that the Church’s teachings on morality are malleable…so, “just hang on and they will change.” So, they live sinful lives and receive communion like it is a right. They are being taught this by pastors, catechists, and even cardinals, so is it even their fault? That’s a lot, I know, but it is going on everywhere, and we seem to do nothing to rein it in, as a Church.

[@mikeoconnor4590]

My granddaughter attends a local Catholic school - where several children identify as “transsexual”. I am dismayed that this school has allowed this to occur. So in this instance the opposite seems to be happening.

[@matthewp9839]

The graphic showing the hierarchy with the Pope is the funniest thing I've seen this week. 😂😂😂😂

[@kenkessner9594]

More than helpful for us, I hope it was helpful for Fr. Martin.

[@h.a.z.m.a.t5072]

I think this video provides a valuable lesson on the specifics of being a good Christian role model, and how to spot bad ones. Thanks Trent.

[@erikserafin7886]

Thanks you. Teachers that are Catholic and in good standing only. Common sense.

[@johnthetenor]

Good morning friends! Another excellent episode.

[@dashcam_chicanery]

My wife and I want our children to go to a private, Catholic school, with Catholic teachers who practice their faith - that means attending Sunday mass at the very least and hopefully being involved with the Catholic community. We just found out that the parish near us is not under the Archdiocese. I don’t know what to make of that but I imagine it doesn’t just come down to funding - wouldn’t that come down to accountability as well? Serious question!

[@ironymatt]

Every parish has to be part of a diocese. Are you sure you haven't been misled somehow? Do you live somewhere very remote?

[@ej12153]

Pray for Father Martin! Thank you Trent Horn for this video!

[@Canisius19]

He should be defrocked

[@sharonrossow5423]

Excuse me. If you are gay you have your rights in a secular school. So long as you do not indoctrinate the children. In Catholic schools, it’s your job to promote Catholic doctrine and teach Catholic doctrine. So it begs the question: why would a homosexual even want to work at a Catholic school?

[@FronteirWolf]

Actually in some places, even if you indoctrinate the children or on the condition you indoctrinate the children, you have the your rights

[@eileen8787]

This is my take. As someone who went to Catholic school for 12 years and had several gay teachers who I know had same sex relationships, but they didn’t let it come into their work and they didn’t try to make it seem like it was a Catholic thing they were doing. To say that because someone is living against the Catholic faith outside of school, they therefore can’t work at that school doesn’t seem right. Plenty of straight teachers were living in sin too, and we had teachers of other denominations as well, but like I said similarly to our gay teachers, this was never brought into the classroom and they didn’t try to justify it or anything to us. A big thing about being Catholic is understanding that people sin, not that it’s okay to, but that that is THEIR struggle and their cross to bear, and it doesn’t seem right for their employer to “act like a parent” to their employees. If when they signed their contract, it stated “you cannot sin while under our employment,” then no one would be able to work there, not even the priests and the nuns. Again, I don’t think that they should be bringing their sin into the classroom and in my experience none did, but I don’t think they should be fired for being sinners

[@KyleWhittington]

16:06, I’ll match you in that challenge if he comes out and says it.

[@thomasjj70]

The safest challenge in the history of challenges 🤣

[@pinesap34]

The rainbow belongs to God not sodomy. Great job Trent

[@marysedita7326]

Choices and consequences. We must uphold the doctrine of the Church’s teachings especially when we are at a level of teaching our precious children. The path of choosing to do the right thing isn’t always easy but right is right and wrong is wrong. God’s blessings.

[@michael88366]

If Catholic schools fired all the teachers that weren't Catholic, they wouldn't have enough qualified teachers to teach the kids.

[@gloriaa.2442]

God is love. God is loving. God is not “accepting” of our sins, that is why we are called to repentance ❤

[@therese6447]

That's the problem these independent boards and admin folks are not upholding Catholic teaching in some cases...we need to put the C back into Catholic Schools...bring back the NUNS!!!!

[@briant6164]

Just need to make sure divorced and remarried Catholics who haven't had an annulment, in teachers "living in sin" are treated the same

[@TheCounselofTrent]

That exact point was made in the video. -Kyle

[@emiliawisniewski3947]

I think topic is more nuanced than we'd like. Say in Australia where the proportion of truly practicing Catholics is low (despite very high baptism rates), the ability to find teachers that are Catholic let alone practicing Catholics is challenging. So schools will employ teachers or other faiths or no faiths to feed the need for Catholic education, often times which is being sought by non-Catholics in place of public schooling. The way in which my Catholic school handled issues like this was to force all teachers to have impersonal relationships with their students and to keep their private life strictly private and to only engage with students in the context of their family setting as professional school teachers or educators. I think this is the best route. Even if a teacher were married to their same sex partner, it's none of the business of the students to know and the teacher shouldn't be making it the business of the students to know. Every time we as students pushed and probed into a teacher's personal life, we were given the answer of 'this is not your business' and we moved on. Teachers also maintained this same standard for us as students, we were under no obligation to openly discuss our private or family lives in class and all pastoral support provided to students was family directed, a student was not set apart from their family. If people assume that students and teachers need to have deep and personal relationships with each other to get through school, there is an issue here. For teachers it puts them at risk of inappropriate behaviour and for students it puts them at risk of being the subject of that behaviour.

[@j.m.turner1756]

I would love it if Father Martin said "Should Catholic schools fire teachers for cohabiting outside of marriage or for being Protestant?" and everyone just screamed "Of course they should!" There's more nuance to it than that, but I would like to see his reaction, since he couldn't claim that they were being inconsistent.

[@FronteirWolf]

I'm a protestant and I agree with that. It's a Catholic school, it isn't the workplace for me.

[@BATAngTABA]

Could you comment on a follow up episode about the status of students at Catholic schools with same sex “married parents”? I understand it can cause scandal to the other students, but it feels harsh for the student as well who has no culpability.

[@grampstoolshed2726]

Gotta admit, when Martin started talking about firing all those other people who were committing grave sins, I couldn't help but think "BASED" 🔥

[@michaelinsc1644]

It baffles me how Fr Martin has not been defrocked. I asked him how he kept his job and he blocked me on Twitter.

[@antpassalacqua]

ITs no surprise that lack of discipline has lead us to where people like Fr. Martin are using the lack of discipline as a reason to push for even less discipline.

[@VivaLeCRob]

Not sure if you do it every time, but i liked ending the video with a list of response questions or practical first steps to engage for the least sophistcated person (read: me). If you don't, I'd like more of this when applicable.

[@thecatholicman]

Good video and well explained

[@woutermortier2771]

And completely bigoted and based on a book full of heinous morals.

[@janet6379]

I would like to know why people like James Martin and Richard Rohr, who do not uphold Catholic teaching, are able to continue calling themselves Catholic priests. Doesn't the standard apply to priests too? Also, Protestants tend to draw a parallel between denominational differences and these types of people who continue to operate within the Church yet do not uphold the teachings.

[@bobbettedavis9168]

+JMJ+ Excellent commentary! Praise be JESUS CHRIST!

[@NotANameist]

I think there’s a pretty substantial difference between someone who may have sinned (e.g. the pregnant woman example, where we don’t even know for sure if assault led to that pregnancy) and someone who upholds sin as the good or publicly endorses explicitly anti-Catholic views (e.g. divorced and remarried, someone that encourages abortions, etc.)

[@SteelWalrus]

These people get upset about us upholding our moral codes and then complain by saying we aren't being extreme enough.

[@-GodIsMyJudge-]

Does this also mean that when a priest errs in teaching that it's more so an indicator of a problem in administration?...

[@FirstLast-po8oz]

I would love to fire people who act as models for our children for not fulfilling their vows to poverty, chastity and obedience; someone who doesn't have a sincere habit of accepting God's grace. That would be great but the bar is so low already that we're not really there yet.

[@jugador24601]

As CCC says, the act, the behavior is condemned not the sinner, and this falls in the example teachers give to the students.

[@michael88366]

As it does by non-Catholic teachers turning their back to the Church but this is usually not met with the same reaction.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

1:05 "This doesn't feel like the faith I know" That's because she doesn't know the faith. Jesus Christ says that homosexuality is an abomination. The Christian faith involves following Christ. Therefore, the Christian faith is against homosexuality. If you disagree, you aren't a Christian. It's really as simple as that. You're free to make up your own faith and incorporate half of what Jesus said and ignore the other half if you want, but don't call it Christianity and then tell people who follow 100% of what Christ said that they aren't doing Christianity right.

[@MatrixRefugee]

Point to me in the Gospel where Christ says that.

[@CatholicCarlismEnjoyer]

@@MatrixRefugee Christ came to fulfill the Old Covenant, not to do away with it. Same sex acts were condemned then and still are. There are no gay people, only those with same sex attractions, and they are called to live chaste and celibate lives.

[@DavidConfiance]

In the public system if you were to dare teach that homosexuality is a sin you would be fire in less than an hour (Canada)

[@cactoidjim1477]

Instead of firing the teacher, they could just pull the funding and tell the school they can no longer use "Catholic" in the school name.

[@opheliaadjei-awuah2671]

Thanks again Trent. Even though i don't know a fraction of what you know about our faith, just based on intellect, I found the Priest's arguments to be faulty and weak if further tested. And you did show that! May God continue to Bless and Keep You Sir!

[@wjtruax]

Fr. Martin commits the logical fallacy of a false dichotomy. A Catholic school teacher who violates Catholic teaching by selfishness or unkindness would not publicly advocate for selfishness or unkindness. Anyone who does falls under the same rubric as openly LBGT teachers. BTW…I was hired as a substitute teacher at a Catholic school before I was Catholic and before I started RCIA. I shared with students my journey into the Catholic Church and used it as a way to encourage students who are cradle Catholics to become more serious about their faith. The love I received when I was finally able to receive the Eucharist after the Easter Vigil was a highlight of my Confirmation.

[@jarrod2276]

Just apply the simple principle - Catholic Schools cannot have people who are publically going against Catholic moral teaching. This is not a confusing issue. I cannot believe that he cannot see the simple principle, it seems obvious that he is consciously trying to confuse.

[@woutermortier2771]

Do catholic moral teaching like stoning your child at the edge of town count as well. Or buying the girl you raped as a bride? Great morals like these are also in the bible. Good old times

[@grayrim]

Is there any reason why Fr Martin stil holds his title

[@sleepatterns]

I don’t understand why these types of people need to have their cake and eat it too. Why don’t you leave and live your life however you see fit, rather than attempt to change and corrupt a two-thousand year-old institution? I have been Catholic since I was an infant. When I started questioning the doctrine as a teenager, I left. When I realized they were right all along, I came back and reverted. It’s not that difficult. The world isn’t required to affirm every aspect of your lifestyle, they already have infiltrated the public schools, leave our Catholic schools alone.

[@HaaaTayo]

Trent can you make a video on "i think biblically" he has made a video on "the Heresies of the Catholic Mass"

[@chrisflanigan7908]

Does anyone know where Fr Martin is giving this talk? It looks like an altar is behind him - is he in a church? If so, isn't that sacrilegious? Isn't the Sanctuary set apart for the sacrifice of the mass, or is it set apart for Fr Martin AND the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?

[@TiMANosaurusRex]

It's important to point out that Father Martin is misrepresenting the issue, poisoning the well to frame his arguments. "If we're firing people for disagreeing with or not adhering to Church teaching..." This is not the reason people are being fired. He seems to want us to believe that the only way for these policies to be consistent is that having any beef at all with the Church should disqualify someone from teaching, relativising the issue instead of explaining it. It is clearly ideologically driven, rather than theologically. It would also be interesting to see if the seemingly higher number of LGBT firings is a resuly of the fact that people with other grievous violations of Church doctrine are simply never hired in the first place, whereas LGBT issues are higly poloticized even in the Church and administrators try to make a point through their hiring, forcing Dioceses into the position of being "the bad guy".

[@aaron1983]

True, I agree that disagreeing with the Church requires much context which others have pointed have made a misleading claim about the situation. As another pointed to, if you hired someone knowing that they were attracted to the same sex, then that's on you and if you fired them then because of that then that is absurd (since you accepted them otherwise); there are wrongs both sides have to come to terms with and judgement is God's alone. With all this vitriol, I kind of understand more deeply why Pope Francis has been focusing on pastoral care. Imagine if the Democrat/Republican hatred became the same culture in the Catholic Church for sinners? (Again, this is in terms of what others are saying that the person was hired even when that person clarified their sexual orientation; otherwise, I would agree a religious institution should have its own parameters for hiring people).

[@johnkeene3734]

Hi Trent! 😁A really big fan! This is my first time commenting 😆 I listened to your FFAF regarding your injury. Didn't know where to comment, so I'm commenting here. Just wanted to say I'm praying for you. I myself am currently suffering my second ACL injury (this time, it's on my left knee) and received surgery two weeks ago. And I'm only 21. In fact, I listened to that episode while exercising my knee. Just goes to show that we're all connected no matter how far we all are! Thank you for lightening my burden by sharing your injury and letting us know that we aren't suffering alone. It may be difficult, but with God's grace, let us lift this suffering up to Him! God bless and hope to meet you in heaven! ❤

[@alecfoster4413]

The fact that Martin has not been defrocked for his BS says volumes about the state of the church.

[@johnharkness6304]

Yep, very sadly.

[@edorasmarauder5761]

Well, he was excommunicated already. But I’m not sure what is going on.

[@johnhancock9384]

Trent, Im Catholic and have commented on your you tube stuff before. Father Martin makes a more valid point than you. We have no business singling out the sin of homosexuality as the only sin that matters. We are all sinners. I must remind you that the word Catholic means universal and we should welcome all into our church. Diversity is a hallmark of liberal arts education. A gay teacher should not be singled out as a sinner as long as their lifestyle does not interfere with their teaching. Your use of strawman arguments to advocate conservative social views is a waste of your Catholic Faith. No one would be teaching at Catholic schools if we based employment on people who do not violate Catholic Doctrine on some level. We all do.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Being openly gay and marrying a same sex partner is not in line w/ Christianity. Don't expect to be teaching at a Catholic or Christian school if you are in open rebellion. If a hetero teacher is found to be living commonlaw, they would also be fired.

[@javierarzaga3870]

We can't let these people in for the simple fact that they'll spoil the bunch. A rotten apple.

[@willbgm5x5]

Thanks man, you’re a good theological debater When you said you won’t let your kids on the internet (in another video) I hope you don’t mean KZbin because that is where I have gotten so much of my theological knowledge and passion Best wishes, WillBGM

[@nancybrady9781]

We all just have to pray for our salvation and hopefully, we have to see Fr. Martin in the afterlife.

[@kelly4187]

"Is my same sex marriage a problem with my application to teach?" YES! ABSOLUTELY! And that isnt even considering the Catholic angle. Inculturation is important enough for Aristotle and Aquinas to write extenaively on both. This woman has no place teaching children period, and especially so for a Catholic school.

[@esthert9146]

How is this priest is still preaching at Roman Catholic Church? How?

[@Natureboy-og3mp]

Wait, this title wasn’t irony? I mean…not the first thing I think of when I see Catholic school scandal

[@bensaul9365]

By Father Martin’s logic, shouldn’t he be fired for not following Church teaching?

[@felixmbandandayitabi4536]

As you catholics never excommunicated the Nazis, the franchist, the Argentinian generals you don't have a leg to stand on

[@stevensonrf]

“Father” Martin knows that the Scriptures and the Catechism are clear on this issue of non-repentant homosexuals. But that’s a message he doesn’t want to accept. Therefore, he is not a faithful Catholic priest, and should step down and do something else with his life.

[@TheLordUrban]

I have interviewed for teaching positions at multiple Catholic schools. The interviewers gave the impression that me being a practicing Catholic was immaterial or at the very best a nice afterthought.

[@michael88366]

As it should be. The idea that a Catholic school should pick a Catholic math teacher over the best math teacher is silly.

[@rappmasterdugg6825]

I am a heterosexual male. Were I a teacher at a Catholic school and began living with my girlfriend that would be scandalous and against the teachings of the Church. I would be fired. So would a homosexual living openly with another homosexual. Neither of us would be publicly living in accordance with the Church and would be doing so publicly. We would no longer be credible instructors of the faith--and even if you teach math or another course not explicitly religious, your obligation is to be a good model of the faith. The Church's policy does not discriminate against homosexuals. Sex outside of marriage goes against the faith and it doesn't matter if you are heterosexual or homosexual.

[@jaqian]

Why as a practicing Gay would you want to teach in a Catholic school?

[@ArieLash01]

If they do not belong in a Faith Based school they need to be removed . It is for the sake of the Children.

[@bruhhmomentumm]

Can you address some of Ruslan's more recent videos talking about the Catholic church Also can you make a video on Young Don Reborn? He's been slandering and spreading some of misinformation about the Catholic church for a while now. EDIT: Nevermind he recently denounced the trinity. He's lost...

[@TheCounselofTrent]

Don’t forget that your prayers are more efficacious than arguments. We’re not going to be able to rebut every single video on this channel, but we can all pray for them. The Holy Spirit is infinitely more powerful than Trent. So pray for these people. -Kyle

[@FoundSonofMary]

Why hasn't this heretic (fr. martin) been excommunicated? That's the most worrying aspect.

[@jecillechiongson1324]

The Pope is also accepting and a Jesuit. That may be a factor

[@edorasmarauder5761]

I thought he was already excommunicated.

[@Lucy_4512]

I go to a (ghetto) Catholic school and my math teacher has cursed in front of us. He has told the boys they will never get girlfriends and that most of them are averaging Ds in his class. Once, he even yelled, “Shut the hell up!” I’m surprised he hasn’t gotten caught yet, but even if he did, he probably wouldn’t be fired because we are short staffed. I’m not complaining though, it just makes math class more interesting.

[@brianfarley926]

Fr. Martín should be honest and become an Angelican Priest. So he either can’t be honest about his position or seeks to change the church from within knowing the Church doesn’t agree with his position.

[@stevezettle3212]

Yes there are many who demand that the Church must change but they refuse to consider repentance. The Episcopal Church makes perfect sense for them.

[@brianfarley926]

@@stevezettle3212 Yes and the Bishops should not tolerate this heresy coming from Priests. They either should fall in line or be sent on their way. Seems to always happen to conservative Priests who go to far, but never with the progressive ones.

[@stevezettle3212]

@@brianfarley926 All too true, and very sad.

[@patriciagrande311]

Matthew 18:6 " he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea." Mark 9:42 " “If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me,[a] it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea."

[@tuav]

Hey Trent, when will we be able to get the 2nd edition of Persuasive Pro-Life?

[@justinc8707]

Thank you for pushing back on Father Martin's non-sense

[@cherylbralick7110]

Excellent! Thank you for this. I perusing doubt understand why "Fr" Martin is allowed to continue pushing his agenda and twisting Catholic teaching