#448

In this episode Trent reveals how Fr. James Martin’s ambiguous statements and flawed arguments sow confusion among the faithful and how we should charitably respond.
Sources:
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"Why not?" - James Martin thinks gay men should be able to kiss in church - • "Why not?" - James Mar...

[@einnaecarg]

I was denied communion when my parish priest found out I was cohabiting with my now husband. He told me that he’ll help us “fix” our situation by guiding us get married in Church. And he did. We got married and only then we were allowed to receive the Eucharist. I can’t thank Fr. Peter McGuine enough for it.

[@MystoRobot]

Thank God for good priest like this who _dare_ do their job properly :)

[@dovie2blue]

If only more shepherds were this firm about the Eucharist!!

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

You’re priest is a hero of the faith

[@kathyprincipe8898]

When I was a director of religious education at a Catholic parish I learned one of my catechists was in what is politely referred to as an "irregular marriage" - i. e. wasn't married in the Church so I had to ask for her resignation. This motivated her to seek a declaration of annulment for her first marriage and then get truly married in the Church so there was a happy ending for all. Lovingly "confronting" people can help them right their relationships with God and His Church.

[@liliarosales1961]

Great priests are out there. ❤️

[@wjtruax]

"If a teaching is only binding if you accept it, then you don’t believe in the Church. You believe in YOU!" - Great line...and a humbling warning to all of us. Thank you.

[@MM22272]

A married lesbian Catholic teacher I met at a parent-teacher meeting said she enjoys teaching her Catholic students the moral goodness of lesbian love. When I objected, the moderator counseled me not to object, because Catholic schools must be "safe spaces". I mentioned this to the bishop who referred me to the trustees who, some of whom themselves, supported it too.

[@MM22272]

@Saints and Scholars my view is that, if Lucifer rebelled in Heaven and Luther and scores of other Church-confirmed heretics have infected the Church, we shouldn't be surprised when such servants of Satan continue to arise.

[@T_frog1]

Get your kids out of that school

[@christenh359]

That’s so frustrating.

[@MM22272]

@@christenh359 yeah, like pass the buck of irresponsibility - from teachers to trustees to bishops and back again. Meanwhile, as the innocent and vulnerable children who are led unwittingly into grave evil and possibly irretrievably out of their Catholic faith, those responsible keep avoiding responsibility. Where is the love of caring for our own? Where is the care of the shepherds for their flocks? I am beside myself and only can implore God for help.

[@MM22272]

@Eli Sheets thank you for your reply! What do you mean by judging? Would you know when he judged them?

[@reasonandtheology]

Well done, Trent! Please keep up what you are doing! I've noticed, what some people do is they technically stick within the cones of orthodoxy, but present content that would logically lead someone outside of those cones.

[@BrentKalar]

Are you saying that being an orthodox Catholic is as difficult as parallel parking?

[@reasonandtheology]

@@BrentKalar lol

[@killianmiller6107]

In a qualified sense, yes

[@Ark_bleu]

Perfectly put.

[@marinamemmo3564]

​@@reasonandtheology Do you still stick by this comment in light of your recent video on the letter Pope Francis wrote endorsing the Catholic LGBTQ outreach convention lead by Fr. Martin? kzbin.infoWvFyq7V6h6U?feature=share

[@billmartin3561]

James Martin needs to become Episcopalian, and stop misleading the Catholic faithful...

[@st.mephisto8564]

Agreed, Anglicanism would be glad to have him

[@AL_YZ]

Unfortunately his eyes are on the long game. He is on a mission : To turn the Catholic Church into HIS kind of church. A church in His image and likeness. So he won't stop and he won't quit until he achieves that goal. He has been slowly but surely toiling, banging away at the teachings of the Church and "re-educating" the flock his whole "priestly" career. He has already accomplished much of what he set out to do but he still has a lot to do. His prospects are better than they have ever been so why would he quit when he can achieve the mission he has dedicated his whole life to?

[@ntmn8444]

@@AL_YZ he hasn’t done anything. He’s a fly who’s going to be squat hard. More and more people are coming back to the Church (myself included) because the world has gone mad and we need wisdom to stay sane.

[@alexwarstler9000]

I wish y'all would stop sending your trash priests our way. And the Episcopalians (of which I formerly belonged to) would grow a backbone. Tragically, the good Bishops, priests and layman are cast aside or sued.

[@Wilditellya1]

There’s more power, prestige, and influence within Catholicism, which is ultimately what worms like him want

[@fritzimperial9210]

Unfortunately it's impossible to engage Fr. Martin since he refuses to debate anyone

[@marcokite]

typical Vatical II pastor, like PF

[@evangallion1661]

@@marcokite 'Pastor'

[@husq48]

@@marcokite Vatican II has nothing to do with this, nice attack though.

[@jesusl5786]

@@husq48 Vatican 2 and priest like this Father are a symptom of modernist infiltration of the church

[@boogerandfriends]

I can proudly say he has blocked me twice now for simply quoting canon law.

[@richardgreene6810]

I'm just disgusted that bishops will censure priests like Fr. James Altman, Fr. Frank Pavone, or Fr. John Corapi, but let guys like James Martin run around all over the World.

[@carlosvillarreal6743]

Well, I agree that correction must be equal to both sides. Those priests you mention are not without criticism either.

[@JP2GiannaT]

Fr. Corapi was manipulating and sleeping with a woman, in addition to living in a mansion and breaking his vow of poverty. It had nothing to do with what he was preaching. What he was preaching was the truth, but there's more to a man than what he says. What he does matters as well.

[@richardgreene6810]

@@JP2GiannaT I'm not saying these guys are saints. I never said they shouldn't be admonished or even censured. But supposing that all of them (Altman, Pavone, Corapi, and Martin) are guilty of misguiding the flock, don't you think it's quite political how some are picked out, while others are not? Are you not also disgusted by magisterial inconsistency that may indirectly approve of a particular kind of scandalous behavior?

[@sidgdansk6017]

start a new church.. they just took old manuscript's from Alexandria. St. Peter was a married man. he over saw the Christian church in Rome. JESUS CHRIST is the Rock; not Peter; sorry for your indoctrination. Catholicism is pagan and not of Jesus; our Lord and Saviour. I trust Him completely. He is my all in all; not Mary(Sophia) WAKE UP!!! ☠

[@alexpardon585]

Thank you for this Trent. Some fellow Catholics had been hesitant to comment on the worry I’d expressed regarding Fr James Martin as they were worried I was just getting into ‘rad-trad’ diatribe. This video has confirmed to me that I was right to feel uncomfortable with Fr James’s tactics. I go to Mass with repentance and admission of my sins. Fr Martin seems to want to excuse those with LGBT identities from any form of repentance. I would be horrified and would have turned away from The Church very quickly if my priests had told me it was excusable to be on drugs, to watch pornography or to cohabitate with a member of the opposite sex. Identification of sinful acts and the beautiful sacrament of confession have strengthened my faith and lead to my confirmation this Easter. Your commitment to teaching and apologetics are a gift to The Church, thank you Trent!

[@gerettaball7867]

Best response to 'Judge nt' that I've heard. We cannot judge a person, but we can judge an action and we are really called to do that in Charity.

[@Dilley_G45]

From the Bible: "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous Judgment", John 7:24 (NASB)

[@speakerscornerbestbits]

As Christ says at Mt 7:15, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

[@anonymousapostle5657]

The Catholic Church is the system of Antichrist.

[@christvault4038]

@@anonymousapostle5657 let me guess, sedevacant?

[@anonymousapostle5657]

@@christvault4038 pardon?

[@christvault4038]

@@anonymousapostle5657 are you a sedevacant?

[@anonymousapostle5657]

@@christvault4038 no

[@princeofthekylineskyline2984]

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, protect Brandon Ambrosino and bring him back into union with the Church.

[@simonslater9024]

God bless you Francesco. Ask your guardian angel to communicate with Brandon’s guardian angel. Please watch the warning or illumination of conscience by Christine Watkins. When this amazing event happens it will bring to an end satans century. God bless. Praise Jesus and Mary always!!!

[@MM22272]

My Catholic professor's course textbook quoted from CATHOLICS for CHOICE and endorsed situational ethics. I wrote my term paper on abortion and my professor passed me, but indicated that I was insensitive to pro-choice and my Catholic position was a diatribe. He then called me the F-word - fundamentalist even though I volunteered to help the poor and support social justice which I'm told fundamentalists don't do.

[@djspenceital]

What kind of situational ethics?

[@MM22272]

@@djspenceital Ethics or morals that are contingent upon the situation - aka, moral relativism, no moral absolutes. In Father James Hardon's "The Catechism of the Catholic Church", he explains that the Church is completely opposed to situational ethics. It was reassuring to have referenced this reliable Catholic resource even if and though my contrarian professor posited otherwise. I was a fish out of water, but at least I was not alone. I had to pray for him a lot.

[@djspenceital]

@@MM22272 Well it depends on how far the professor pushed it. There is situational ethics in the Tradition, which is compatible with moral absolutes. Augustine says in Book 3 of the Confessions that, although God’s justice never changes, how it manifests in different times and places does change. Aquinas also makes a distinction between first order and second order precepts of the natural law, the first being absolute and universally available by synderesis, but the second are not universally known. Hence, Aquinas thinks that the ancient Germanic tribes who thought that stealing was acceptable, were not liable for that action, as it’s not forbidden by one of the first precepts. Later theologians, such as Suarez, become more deontological in their approach, and multiply the number of moral absolutes.

[@MM22272]

@@djspenceital He was slightly nuanced, but regularly advanced non-traditional moral views which he supported with like-minded theologians. For example, he openly and flatly contradicted the Church teaching on contraception. It may be worth noting that I do not mean the proper operation of the pertinent gifts of the Holy Spirit or the employment of the four cardinal virtues when one is confronted with a moral dilemma. A church friend of mine had unwittingly and inadvertently conflated situational ethics with the practical application of moral absolutes and, as a result, confidently, but mistakenly drew a wrong conclusion. It was, nonetheless, beneficial for me to observe this fault and learn how it transpired so as to avoid such a fall. That aside, your comments are curiously intriguing, given the apparent paradox, namely regarding the explications of Sts. Augustine and Aquinas, both of whom I have scarcely read. So, I readily admit that you would have more knowledge that I do. Nonetheless, I find your comments intelligible and cogent. To that end, my impression, quite subject to correction, is that the above-mentioned saints (Suarez aside) are presenting quite a different matter than what my professor had advocated. In closing, I thank you kindly for leaving me with this information that itself inspires me to do some more reading by such authors. May God light your path and direct your steps.

[@catholicrakelle]

@G Am I was just introduced to Fr. Hardon at the shrine in La Crosse, WI yesterday and I’m actually considering becoming a Marian Catechist through the program he founded. Small world!

[@TheBibleCatholic]

Thanks for this analysis Trent. Fr. Martin leaves just enough ambiguity to give himself an out if ever questioned. That and he blocks anyone who challenges his assertions. God bless.

[@sheasheagirl7]

Thanks for identifying the tactics. It helps. I see this in the National Catholic Reporter. Not everything is bad, but some things published are vague and the slippery tactics are present.

[@ModernPapist]

I'm really digging this direct approach. If only his bishop would see and act like a spiritual father too. At least there are some bishops that have made it so Father James can't talk in their diocese.

[@ultimateoriginalgod]

Does a Jesuit follow a particular bishop, or would the higher up in the Jesuit order be his higher ups? I genially don’t know

[@ModernPapist]

@@ultimateoriginalgod he has to respect whatever diocese he enters. He is under a Jesuit Order superior as you hinted at. There are some other nuances that I am not familiar with but those are the main points.

[@kathyprincipe8898]

As a member of a religious order (Jesuits) he owes obedience to his religious superior in the order but he also owes obedience to the bishop in whose diocese he exercises his "ministry." There is no such thing as a Jesuit bishop in the sense you mean it - it is instead his Jesuit superior.

[@mcmemmo]

Clearly the need to silence Fr. Martin is evidence that "some bishops" fear that the message they preach can't compete with the Good News brought by Fr. Martin. It's pretty clear which side the Holy Spirit is empowering.

[@disguisedcentennial835]

@@mcmemmo the Catholic Church allowing outsiders to debate them is more akin to what you’re saying, and they do just that. Allowing these outsiders to teach others under the guise as one of them doesn’t make sense whatsoever.

[@sgzartan]

Fr. Martin has referred to the Holy Spirit as "she" more than once. This man has no business being a priest.

[@djspenceital]

That’s not exactly a heresy

[@sgzartan]

@@djspenceital Only according to those that reject or subvert Church teachings. St. Nicholas would have literally ko'd Fr. Martin if he would have spewed his heresies and half truths in the 3rd century

[@bearistotle2820]

For reals? Do you have a link or something? Although still not technically heresy, as the holy spirit doesn't really have a gender, doing so implies an extremely weird relationship in the triune God. That's just... really really awkward.

[@djspenceital]

@@sgzartan there’s no ecclesial definition that declares it a heresy. And Spirit or “Ruach” in Hebrew is a feminine word. So if we’re punching ppl in the face who refer to the Spirit in the feminine, then we’re gonna be punching some of the Biblical authors. Doesn’t sound too orthodox to me.

[@djspenceital]

@@bearistotle2820 I’m not sure why it would imply a weird relationship in the Trinity. I don’t personally refer to the Sprit in the feminine. I prefer to refer to It as “It” because pneuma in Greek is a neuter word. I do that without denying the personal nature of the Holy Sprit (though it does sound weird in English tbh). But Ruach/Spirit in Hebrew is a feminine word. So it’s Scripture itself that makes use of the feminine to refer to the Spirit.

[@ironrex6979]

Thank you for your channel. It’s helping me this video, along others, are helping me understand the responsibility of being a Catholic. Specially how not to allow my “righteous” anger go overboard and accidentally become a tool that helps evil. Regardless if I meant well. May God’s grace guide us and actual love lead us in doing the right thing in these distorted times.

[@rheaalex6640]

Hey Trent, you really are an inspiration to me💫 I love your work!! May Christ bless you & fam💕

[@aceraphael]

Malayali aano?

[@thagreatadante]

Only a narcissist joins a club with the full knowledge that it has rules set and agreed upon for centuries prior to even the new member's birth and expects to not only change the rules. But to say the rules are infact wrong.

[@kathleenirish]

Thank you Excellent point

[@bearcow7964]

Thank you for exposing him. We need more videos like this!

[@nicholaseleh9253]

Definitely.

[@moldyvoldy1231]

I'm not catholic, I'm Baptist, but I find your videos very interesting, even when I don't understand all the terminology.

[@icecreamjunkie6790]

Trent is awesome.

[@jerrytaylor9007]

Fundamental to my salvation is the knowledge of where I have sinned - only then can I seek and ultimately rejoice in the Mercy of God.

[@minorityvoice9253]

The Bishop over James Martin is responsible for the damage this man has done to catholic conscience formations.

[@minorityvoice9253]

@Prasanth Thomas His bishop can surely excommunicate him if they so chose to under Canon law but that is not the only thing a bishop can do to keep a priest from harming the faithful. He can be relieved of his duties as editor of America Magazine. They could also ban him from speaking engagements and from using Twitter.

[@emiblux98]

Im not american so I never heard of this priest but hearing him sent chills down my spine... how is he still allowed to speak in the name of the Church?

[@JustThankinJesus]

Similar to german bishops thinking.

[@zadokmotorfreight2423]

Frightening and very sad!

[@MrNonbus1]

Totally respect your ministry. Clarity & charity! 🙏

[@Kingcob7]

I am happy your response about non-catholics teaching at catholic schools. I don't understand how that is permitted to be honest. I don't know how polite we are supposed to be about this guy. I think he is a liar and knows he is a liar.

[@Aggie-zs1qi]

Honestly it says a lot when Father Martin doesn’t want to debate anyone on these issues. At least we see Trent making an effort to edify us accordingly. Pray for all priests - they need prayers bc Satan wants to destroy and attack them everyday. We always need the truth so I thank you Trent for this information! God bless you!

[@rhyswilliams6271]

Frankly, he needs to be excommunicated. What do we gain from his constant dissent and confusion?

[@Justin-yn5py]

Yea I agree. I applaud Trents charity towards him but at a certain point he is actively misleading followers of Christ and this must stopped

[@bearistotle2820]

He hasn't even come close to grounds for excommunication. He would need to explicitly contradict church teaching, which he has never done. He should be counseled by his bishop, and go through those proper channels, but excommunication is a specific act that has a specific use, and this use does not apply here.

[@EpoRose1]

Haven’t there been clerics that had their faculties taken away for misleading the laity? I thought there was an official term for being “silenced” that way, but I can’t think of it.

[@sgzartan]

@@bearistotle2820 He's publicly referred to the Holy Spirit as "she" more than once.

[@disguisedcentennial835]

@@bearistotle2820 I agree that the first step is to attempt a more private disciplining from a higher-up, before doing the highest level of discipline that is excommunication. However, he still must be disciplined!!! And he hasn’t been! This demonstrates to non-Catholics like me that the Church is as weak as ever, and turns us off from ever joining it. A Church that cannot control and discipline the men it gives power over congregations, in the name of tolerance and charity, is a church that actively provides soap boxes for antichrists. It’s why I disavow the Lutheran Church now, and why I disavow the Catholic Church. Too much tolerance within their ranks. Ever wonder how the Borgias were able to do what they did? Well, you’re seeing it.

[@KimHmrs]

We had a politician in Belgium Wilfried Martens, who committed euthanasia and still got a grand televised catholic funeral. In 1990 when king Baldwin, who was a true catholic, refused to sign the abortion law, Martens even co-conspired with liberal politicians to have the king declared "unfit to rule" for 1 day so they could pass the bill without his signature. He also had children with 2 women, and was married 3 times.

[@rudymatheson1415]

I remember reading about that. Horrible situation on the part of the government, especially in a country that is still mostly nominally Catholic…

[@katiereder5446]

Thanks Trent. We need more voices like yours. Its not just a long distance crisis that i hear about somewhere. It's in my diocese as well. Ive had a conversation with a local priest that shares the same views as Fr Martin. Very scary.

[@jrbcnchz]

Ugh I went to Fordham, what a freakin joke of a "Catholic" university it is. Didn't realize it at the time, as I was still an atheist then.

[@JD-yu3dk]

Same with St Joseph’s in Philly. A joke.

[@sarasofiacastro6750]

Glad to see you back home.🌷

[@row1landr]

Does he not understand that God destroyed 5 cities for this evil? And the evils that caused God to destroy the earth by flood. If you care about that 14 year old, teach him of the love of Jesus and self control and purity of heart and mind and soul.

[@DecentFellowship]

Great point about not giving in to the sin of wrath, even when we are righteously angry. It isn't helpful and can be damaging. *James 1:19 "Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; 20 for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God."*

[@michellemorris2676]

By Fr. Martin’s thinking regarding Brandon kissing his partner, does that mean as a single woman, I can bring a married man I’m having an affair with and kiss him and not be causing scandal? I would be committing a sin and throwing it in God’s face by doing it right there in Mass! Church teaching is for everyone and not just for opposite attracted people or just same sex attracted people.

[@lynnkramer1211]

A priest or religious is to dedicate all there energy toward leading souls to heaven, and Fr. Martin is consistently doing the exact opposite of that.

[@kynesilagan2676]

we are all humans after all, even a priest can be stubborn and be misguided on a fundamental level, wherein the enemies celebrate it with him; fueling the misguidance to another level. let's pray for the conversion of fr. Martin, as well as of our own lifelong conversion. thank you Trent for being courageous.

[@salvadoralmeida7294]

Great talk. Priests should pick up Trent Horn's points and use them in their homilies and teachings. Error needs to be rejected no matter how ingeniously they are propounded. Souls are at stake.

[@icecreamjunkie6790]

Agreed!

[@PaulTesta]

New subscriber here, Trent. Nice job. In my ministry, I've had to respond to SSA parishioners. This was a VERY helpful exercise. Thanks! Dcn. Paul Testa Diocese of St. Augustine

[@neillondon8709]

Its great to see the charitable way towards this guy, but he's slippery as a snake....he's encouraging sin among the abcd community.. Instead of helping live a chaste life. Good video, good points. But that guy is borderline to say in the least Heretical... The bridge he's seemingly building is sin - - - and condemnation...

[@7oneofseven]

We can care for the good of souls who have fallen into grave sin by praying and fasting for them and when the opportunity presents itself speak with charity on this subject as is beautifully outlined in this wonderful post. Thank you for this helpful discussion.

[@tesschavit3009]

“Man’s Law, Cannot Make Moral What God Has Declared Immoral. Even If Sin Is Legalized, It’s Still A Sin in the Eyes of God.” - Unknown

[@cd6084]

38:40 “People use the homosexuality texts in that way without any historical context” .... says Fr. Martin as he uses the texts from the Bible without the appropriate context.

[@suzannespanier4492]

Hasn’t pride traditionally been a thing to avoid in general? Swing back towards humility. That’s where you find mercy.

[@johnvwilkman]

Very nicely finished Trent! Very clear and charitable!!

[@ibanezdudeck]

Like in addiction, you have to acknowledge you have a problem to fix it. I am diseased and technically disabled. But luckily, my parents never made that an excuse. I have diabetes and celiac and I have to work and plan around those realities. Does it make life harder? Yes, but ignoring them and pretending they have no effect on my well being would cause more harm. The same is true with the use of the word disordered. You don't have to let the disorder define you, but you have to acknowledge it for what it is.

[@aaronjoe8759]

Hi everyone. Please Pray for India. Our High court just passed a law to teach students on the LGBT+ community and this will make it more confusing to young students. So, our catholic schools and colleges will have to teach students as the curriculum is set by the government. So we can't reject and we'll lose our license. I'm heartbroken and almost on the verge of breaking down....

[@vituzui9070]

I will pray. Concentrate on what you can control (for example prayer) but don't worry for what you can't control.

[@aaronjoe8759]

@@vituzui9070 im quite worried of the fact that more Catholics would get confuse and lose faith....

[@orbeuniversity]

00:00 Introduction 6:47 1. Superficial and Flawed Analogies 14:02 2. Elevating "Cultural Catholicism" 23:56 3. The Slippery Slope 36:55 4. Just asking questions... 52:36 5. Persecution as Protection

[@stormchaser9738]

I have a jesuit Professor at Boston College (I’ll leave him unnamed) who uses the “sensis fidelium” argument to challenge church teaching on birth control. This video gave me so good points to question him with. Thank you Trent!

[@domo3699]

It's the same sensus espoused by Israelites in the demand for Christ's crucifixion - majority can be wrong. SF can be followed only if rightly formed within boundaries of Divine and Natural Law.

[@LostArchivist]

Thank you my brother in Christ for showing the obfuscation tactics of Fr.Martin. I avoided his work like the plague so I only had hearsay to go and his overall reputation. Thank you for giving both concrete examples and counters to them. God bless you greatly brother. Through Our Blessed Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.

[@catherineoliveri4876]

Great episode Trent! I’m so happy you called out Fr. Martin but he doesn’t get called out by the hierarchy EVER! I don’t believe people should call him names but a lot of other good holy priests are out there speaking the truth trying to bring souls to heaven and they are getting cancelled by their bishops while Fr. Martin runs around using all the tactics you stated making very ambiguous comments and getting away with it! Where is the justice?

[@chaunceyhart1346]

This reminds me of when Jesus said “let your yes mean yes and your no mean no” He does not approve of slippery tactics.

[@salvadoralmeida7294]

Read as: Errors need to be rejected no matter how ingeniously they are propounded.

[@ThePilgrim_Redeemed]

Thank you for this Mr. Trent Horn. Very helpful. Your insight and wisdom are a great assurance that our Catholic faith will never be gray, and will never ever be rainbow-colored because we should always choose what's white. God bless you.

[@parkwalks8562]

Well done Trent. Thank you. I will pray for you.

[@CatholicK5357]

There was a time when I was trying to find out if I could be a faithful Christian while pursuing same sex relationships. The last thing I wanted was to offend God. But I also did not want to avoid pursuing what felt natural if there was no certainty that it was wrong. There were two categories of people who kept me in that confused state longer than necessary. One were the sort of Christians with no understanding or empathy. They would insult and/or not take questions on the matter seriously. That gave me the impression that those who held the conservative view were only made up of bigots and the ignorant. The other group were those Christians who used ambiguity to lessen the gravity of any potential sin. On the surface they seemed more loving because they weren't insulting me. However, I found them to be just as insulting when I asked "the wrong" questions, in an attempt to get to the bottom of the truth. It is hard to say which one of these were the more dangerous. But the point is that insulting and degrading people only sends them further down the wrong path and into the hands of the enemy. But coddling people in their sin is no help either. Thank God that He finally led me to some content of faithful Christians with real answers who neither coddled nor were uncharitable. Because of those who were not afraid to speak the truth in a loving way I am now trying to live an authentic Catholic chaste life. God bless you Trent for telling those school yard bullies to grow up. I would add one more point. The kinds of unkind words said to me by school yard bullies in grade school and high school were in large part what caused the first doubts in my mind - making me wonder if there was something about me that others could see through; causing me to question myself. Words really do have the power of life and death. We are held accountable for every idle word.

[@gpwyt]

You are championing one who kept you "in that confused state longer than necessary." Trent Horn doesn't discuss LGBTQ issues; he uses Father Martin as a convenient scapegoat. Trent earns money that way. I've read Martin's books, and I have never seen him "use ambiguity to lessen the gravity of any potential sin." Trent's video begins with some nice words about welcoming LGBTQ people to the Church, and then he spends an hour using ambiguity to cast doubt on one of (if not the) highest profile priests who minister to a downtrodden minority. Jesus met people where they are and He accompanied them on their life journey. I have never read or heard Father Martin advocate for anything else. If you want to replace your sexual orientation issues with a fixation on Catholicism, then fine; I don't judge. If you are going to champion a manifestly dishonest person like Trent, well...that's not Catholic or Christ-like. And PS, in case you're wondering: I'm a very old, heterosexual, lifelong Catholic man.

[@CatholicK5357]

@@gpwyt First off, it seems incongruent to bash someone for making money selling books while then promoting someone who makes money selling books. You clearly know nothing about Trent Horn. I have heard a lot of Fr. Martin's statements ever before seeing Trent's explanation video, and I have always felt that he is perniciously ambiguous. It is extremely difficult to tell if he is saying that sin is okay or not. And with some of the things you said in your comment, you seem to be both saying that it is a sin and that it is not a sin without actually saying either. I prefer clarity. If someone is going to say they disagree with the Catholic Church then that is his choice, but it should be made clear. The Catholic group which is actually helping those with same-sex-attraction who are clear about Church teaching is "Courage". Father Martin is not helping but rather adding to the confusion of our times. He does not minister to the downtrodden minority if he is not helping them to live a chaste Catholic life. Instead that is called enabling. My "fixation on Catholicism" is my love for Christ. It is not meant to replace any struggles, but is meant to keep me on the right path within that struggle. Those who say they don't judge are usually the most judgmental. Considering that you spent an entire comment judging Trent Horn and myself, I highly doubt that you don't judge. Trent is not dishonest. You are accusing someone of wrongdoing without any evidence. That is scandalizing someone's good name and bearing false witness. Saying bad things about your brother, Trent, is actually what Christ spoke against and is certainly not Christ-like. I will accept what the Church says Catholicism is rather than you. If you wish to help those who you call downtrodden, then love them. Love, in the Catholic sense, means to wish for their good. And staying close to Christ by following His commandments is the ultimate good. Accusing those who wish to do so as being obsessed with Catholicism is unloving and even demeaning. As a lifelong Catholic man I hope that those years of experience in the faith will kick in one day so that you stop trying to lead others astray. Godspeed.

[@gpwyt]

@@CatholicK5357 "First off," one is a priest and one is a media talking head, earning a handsome income. I know Trent Horn's writings and I know Father Martin's writings. You clearly know nothing at all about Father Martin and you're unfortunately all too willing to help Trent make money. I would suggest that you NAME what you claim is "perniciously ambiguous," (Christ save us)... When you get over that "you seem to be both saying" garbage, then read what I wrote again and think in terms of clarity. Christ meets people where they and accompanies them on their life journey. That's clarity. Trent Horn twists logic and uses words like "slippery" to characterize the writings of a priest with a very difficult public ministry. And you champion Trent. And I know Courage as well. So? YOU and Trent are "not helping but rather adding to the confusion of our times," because you're lying. You have zero evidence for that idiotic idea that he's "enabling." In reality, he challenges LGBTQ people to give the Church another chance, and he challenges you and Trent to welcome the sinners. Try that out. Trent's dishonesty - and yours - starts with "slippery." I have and could dissect every bit of Trent's hour-long func-raising appeal - I've done it before and he wet his pants in reply - but I'm not going to waste my time unless you decide to exercise the faith you and Trent dishonor. Your "fixation" is on a one-sided, likely-politically-motivated view of Catholicism. It shows in your slavish devotion to Trent Horn, your reflexively dishonest characterization of a priest with (like it or not, for Christ's sake) a very difficult public ministry, and with that f**king pathetic bit about accepting "what the Church says over [me]." Struggle, Keith. Work on it. Remember, however, that those who characterize other public Catholics' work using words like "slippery" do not care about you or the faith. Trent's earning a handsome living, nothing more. As a lifelong Catholic man, I hope that you will one day realize that no decent human being, let alone one claiming Christianity, writes filth like "I hope that those years of experience in the faith will kick in one day so that you stop trying to lead others astray." Godspeed yourself, Keith.

[@CatholicK5357]

@@gpwyt As you can imagine, as someone who has decided to live a chaste life with the struggles that I have, I tend to get a lot of heat from both sides. I always have other people telling me that I am wrong or should do something different. What you said in your first comment and in this last comment made me feel judged and defensive. I hope that is not what you intended. If my response to that was reactionary and only added fuel to the flames of this discussion then I apologize. Thank you for your opinion. I suppose we will find out if I am a bad Christian on judgement day. I would however advise both of us to be more careful with how we word things, as we will be judged for every idle word, spoken or written. I love Trent Horn. His work at Catholic Answers is one of several apologetics content which led me towards the Catholic faith, and away from despairing against faith and my sins. He fulfilled a great need and has helped a lot of Catholics strengthen their faith and has led others to the fold. So yes, I certainly support him and am proud of the work that he does. When I saw that he did a video on a topic I care deeply about I watched the whole thing. You can think what you want of him, but that is what I think of him. And I will stand by it. I have no problem with him making a living since that is a requirement for all. I don't think he is very wealthy but that is none of my business. I also love Father Martin. And it is because of my love for him that concerns me, both for him and those who he is trying to help. If you think he is not ambiguous than you are free to have that thought. However, Fr. Martin's statements were part of many factors that almost led me into a life of sin. I find no clarity in his statements. And as Trent Horn pointed out in his podcast, he even said that there was no problem with a self-identified gay couple kissing in Church. That statement is not ambiguous to me, but concerning. Priests are held to a higher account than lay people because they have more responsibility over souls. Christ meets us where we are at and both asks us and helps us to change. We all have crosses to bear. We can bear it with Christ and try and avoid sin, or else we can turn away from Him. That is the same with any sin. The reason I mentioned Courage, was to show what an authentic ministry who helps people that struggle with same sex attraction looks like. I'm sorry if I gave an impression of political mindedness in my faith. You are welcome to show me where I did so. But I certainly don't see caring about avoiding sin and being concerned about bad examples in priests has to do with politics. I actually hate politics. You can think what you wish about me being a bad Catholic. I will let God be the judge of me. But I would advise you to refrain from swearing and using God's name in vain, which is a very filthy form of speech. I can't say that no true Catholic would say it, because unfortunately they do all the time. It is extremely offensive to God and to our faith. It scandalizes other people and can cause weaker brothers to falter. Whether a Catholic for life or for a week, we all need to treat Christ with respect by keeping His name sacred.

[@gpwyt]

@@CatholicK5357 And then, as you should be able to understand, as someone who sees the reality of what Father Martin is doing - challenging LGBTQ people to give the Church another chance and for us to behave as Catholics and welcome the sinner (NOT "enable," or "celebrate," or or or) Your apology is not necessary; I do not judge people. I challenge political Catholics, on both sides. And given your comments about Trent and Father Martin, your apology is without credibility. There is a very small number of Catholics who deal with LGBTQ issues and who "love" Trent Horn. I know a large number of LGBTQ people due to several factors in my life, and I have never met one who had a positive view of the Church. And I've lived all over the States. There is a reason for that reality. There is a particularly sad arrogance and hypocrisy about comments that include things like "...it is because of my love for him that concerns me..." You are not clear about what Father Martin said that "almost lost you;" however, I suspect that it was a combination of factors including a misreading of his comments, that put you in that frame of mind. Of course you find no clarity in his statements. You're looking for a black and white answer where there is none, and that makes you particularly susceptible to Trent Horn's hypocrisy. I would suggest that you go back to that bit about "gay couples kissing in the Church," and consider how and why you feel that it's a sin for two men to kiss as a sign of the peace. People like Trent teach you to think that it's ambiguous. He's playing on your anxiety about your sexual orientation. You should not let him do that. Christ meets us where we are and accompanies us on our journey through life. We all have crosses to bear, and one of them is the idea that who you are is a sin. I don't know you and I don't know why you have an issue with sexual orientation, but I don't believe that you are a sin. I have a serious problem, though, with public Catholics who preach dishonestly, and Trent Horn preaches dishonestly. You buy into that "slippery" filth from Trent, and that's the start of your political slant, Keith. True Catholicism is directly in the middle and does not include making up idiot questions about a priest with an impossible public vocation. It does not include claims about the "LGBTQ agenda," and it does NOT include the kinds of filth that Trent Horn writes about pro-choice people. I would strongly advise you in the name of Christ Almighty to get the hell over that freaking nonsense about "swearing," and while you're at it, realize that you do not know the mind of God. You don't have to like my language, but you should realize that for a great number of people (and as far as I'm concerned, likely for God), there is nothing as filthy as the rhetoric coming from people like those at Catholic Answers. You clearly have the right-wing-nut Catholicism down and you've taken it to heart. Now get with the Jesuits and own the reality, which is that Catholicism has as much to do with Father Martin and his approach as it has to do with Trent Horn and his fucking dishonesty.

[@lostcharge]

Wonderfully presented. I really appreciate the calling out those who are throwing out slurs/heretic/etc out willy nilly. Yes, we should be clear about these things, but that doesn't mean we should actually be namecalling, and being incredibly hurtful. It does nobody any good, and honestly makes things harder for those who want to evangelize and do genuine outreach. As you said, we wouldn't want the same to happen to us. Above all else, charity. I learned some things. Thanks so much for this! Prayers for Fr. Martin.

[@jmarino55555]

This guy is fantastic!! I'm glad I found him. He's a true scholar and a gentleman

[@johnn633]

4:00 Catholics in America should be really grateful for their bishops. They dare to make clear statements on moral and doctrinal issues. In Germany most bishops don't do that, they even support dissenters over here. When there are moral issues i look if the Vatican has published something. If they didn't publish a statement i immediately after that go to the american bishops. I thank God for the Catholic ministries and bishops of America and pray that God will touch the hearts of the German shepherds (no pun intended)

[@humphreyobanor866]

May God save all the people that Fr. Martin's messages have confused

[@d.a.tsun5104]

I don't think they're 'confused'. In their mind they already 'go in that direction', then when they hear James Martin, they catch a glimpse of opportunity to twist the teaching of the Church to justify the path they're already heading to. Like that Ambrosino guy. When he restrains himself from kissing his partner at the sign of the peace, he knows what the true teaching of the Church is, yet he hangs on to James Martin's comment so that he can continue doing what he knows is wrong.

[@Ark_bleu]

Slippery Tactics List (just for quick reference later) 1. Superficial and Flawed Analogies 2. Elevating “Cultural Catholicism” 3. Slippery Slope Arguments 4. “Just asking questions.” 5. Persecution as protection

[@ChaseKinion]

Orthodox Christian here, I appreciate you deconstructing and debunking these leftist talking points that can only survive on emotion. You make awesome videos.

[@ridimapinto5500]

Why are Fr. Martin's bishops and cardinals not talking sense into him? How can they allow him to make such statements and cause so much harm???

[@amdg672]

Good priests get silenced by their bishops, the likes of Fr.Martin gets all the support and invitations to conferences. If any of the laity call this out, they suddenly become the problem.

[@sheasheagirl7]

This was fair. Thanks again for the charitable lesson too.

[@ColeB-jy3mh]

Whow thank you Trent this is why I give monthly on patron; you provide so much great content, I hope many others will support you too so you can continue spreading this information to the masses

[@dolliehebertking2833]

Trent, you are awesome!! I love listening to your points of view. God Bless You!

[@sarasofiacastro6750]

Thank you for talking about this, Trent. God bless your ministry!🙏🙏🙏

[@markhenryramsey9132]

I fully agree. Attending a faith school is a choice. And if you send your child there or work within the school you should know what is or is not permitted. Actions have consequences.

[@vinnyv949]

So true Trent. Some of the superficial analogies they make are easier to debunk and take a bit more thinking. The debunking of going to a non/Christian wedding being analogous to a homosexual marriage was great. It’s similar to why we wouldn’t or shouldn’t go to a polygamous wedding which has no chance to be convalidated.

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

It’s clear Fr. Martin is not operating in good faith.

[@joelmontero9439]

Keep the good work Trent, you are doing a great job for the Church ¡Viva Cristo Rey y la Virgen de los ángeles!

[@mad_marc2757]

Back in the day I saw a video of him from the KZbin channel Big Think in which he says that chastity is not for everyone...

[@ana-7421]

Really appreciate that you’re speaking the truth and speaking it with such charity.

[@nardforu131]

Why is Father Martin still a priest if he is creating and implying disagreement to church's teaching? It's confusing and misleading the flock.

[@nealabbott3660]

You are a gift to the Church, brother.

[@nathanaelculver5308]

So Brandon Ambrosino feels tension when attending Mass while living contrary to the faith? That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

[@ChiaraDBrown]

Well done, thank you for this!

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

I appreciate Trent's commitment to civility and since he's an apologist I understand he needs to publicly adopt the view that we can't possibly know what's Fr Martin's intent by making these "careless yet careful" statements promoting sin and degeneracy, but I think it should be pretty obvious to anyone paying attention Fr Martin only wants to legitimize his own proclivities. I don't think he sees himself as a dissident, I think he truly believes his sin is special and will be accepted in the doctrine if he tries hard enough because at the highest echelons of the hierarchy, it's disturbingly common.

[@computationaltheist7267]

I could not have put it better myself. Also, I hope you're doing well my friend.

[@analuciasequeiracastro9132]

Thanks, Trent. Awesome video!!!!

[@timfronimos459]

Great channel and a good video. Gutsy!

[@brendenporterfield327]

Had no idea Catholic teachers didnt have to be Catholic... feels like a big oversight. No wonder half the time someone starts a sentence with "I went to Catholic school, and..." its followed by heresy

[@theticoboy]

Trent, do a video on your opinion on dealing with family members in gay relationships. Would you attend family events? No have them to your house? Etc

[@MM22272]

Great suggestion! While here, I'd say, that's a tight rope. I'd say no to homosexual weddings for sure. I wouldn't tolerate homosexual affection in my house and certainly not before children, but barring that, if they remain behaved and self controlled and you have the strength to bear them with charity, your kind presence may afford you the opportunity to minister and witness to them to repent. Much prayer and fasting would be required. If you can't restrain your moral indignation against their sin, then you may not be just ready yet. Prayers and best wishes.

[@theticoboy]

@@MM22272 thanks for the comments!

[@fredphilippi8388]

In 2021, Pope Francis addressed two letters to New Ways Ministry, in which he commended the organization for its outreach to the LGBTQ community and referred to Sr. Jennine Gramick as "a valiant woman" who had suffered much for her ministry. On October 17, 2023, Gramick and three other staff members of New Ways Ministry met with Pope Francis at his residence in Rome.

[@noelladmello6530]

Why is Fr Martin still allowed to minister as a Catholic priest. Thank you Trent Horn for this podcast.

[@papadan3]

that is the point... he uses tactics to allow the affirmation of one's disposition in their rationalizations.. not a way of bridge or connection rather a divisive force of tactics which leave out the very real truth he never says

[@lynneshine6606]

Looking forward to hearing you speak at Franciscan University of Steubenville the end of July!

[@fotisvon9943]

when i was protestant i asked my pastor if i was to go to my sisters gay civil union and he said he didnt know. that was the start to the end for me in the protestant church

[@stevewagner7507]

Sad that 2 words can be seen as so damaging to her 14 yo, but she fails to see the eternal damage that can be done by his homosexuality.

[@wlthomas67]

Unrepentant Sinful behavior should be shameful and shamed.

[@trump-isko-digongduterte-tv]

Thank you for definitely defining what definitely defines authentic catholic teaching.... 😁😁😁

[@papadan3]

i like that clarity and clarity yes thankyou

[@tommore3263]

The Catholic church, as one must naturally expect given her Bridegroom, is compassionate sanity.

[@JD-eq1gk]

Thumbs up if you think Fr. Martin should join the laity.

[@albertwiersch9852]

Great logic and explanations, thanks! Why aren't all these "Catholic priests" excommunicated for leading so many people into very dangerous territory?

[@lymphomasurvive]

Because the Enemy has been controlling certain elements within the Church, especially the Society to which Fr. Martin belongs.

[@MMichiganSalveRegina]

The Catholic Church traditionally holds that it *is* in fact scandalous to attend religious ceremonies of a different faith. That is explicitly said in Mortalium animos of Pius XI. What Fr Martin does is he says "We're lowering the bar for Catholics in this way already, so let's lower it even more", instead of saying "We're lowering the bar for Catholics in this way already, so let's raise the bar to what is traditionally held by the Church's magisterium"

[@Reese268]

Why is it that the Catholic Church allows someone like Fr Martin, who teaches contrary to the Catholic Church, to remain a priest?

[@roseg1333]

Martin is damming these people to hell by letting them get communion and having them show their defiance to God’s face. Our priests get mad when the lesbians try to come get communion and are kissing and holding hands in the pews.

[@hacker4chn841]

Great video. Just one thing: I believe the video for the slippery slope is at Villanova, not Fordham. I'm 99.99% sure that's Villanova's altar.

[@larahannaford1012]

I can not believe that he has not been asked to resign, and Father Altman has been asked. He is greatly misguided and ill Formed. The Mass is a place where one leaves their ego at the door, and is there to merge with God, a marriage. Humility, modesty, and obedience is missing . God bless you

[@lynneshine6606]

Thank you for this episode!