Regarding Fan Theories

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Are fan theories ruining television? Are shows that don't follow fan theories bad? Is everyone Mephisto? Nahhh. I'll explain.
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[@mcbadrobotvoice8155]

Is nando mephisto?

[@littlesamu5920]

He's definitely mephisto

[@IAmMightyMike]

Nando is Mephisto played by Jim Krasinski who is a mutant.

[@warrust]

Always has been

[@TrueMikeyQ]

Didn't you know that?

[@mrnoah8447]

I thought Nando was Agatha

[@587DeathKing]

The funny thing about X men Pietro in Wandavision was when I saw Andre The Black Nerd's reaction to it was "Alright this means one of two things, either we're going full multiverse now or its more of an inside joke of how actors in TV sitcoms get quickly and easily replaced"

[@Jlerpy]

I just wish it had been both.

[@the_rose_garden01]

@@Jlerpy Yeah, same

[@legomyeggo7471]

@@Jlerpy i mean wasnt it both? at one point they said something like "they recast pietro"

[@Jlerpy]

@@legomyeggo7471 It was a joke about recasting characters, but it was not a multiverse thing like some of us thought/hoped, them using that same actor was just a fakeout.

[@aedanmannion]

@@Jlerpy which is kind of the joke

[@mroc170]

Nando: Says there's no FATWS spoilers Also Nando: Immediately reveals who the power broker is

[@nrnrn999]

Is that really a spoiler though? It did practically nothing to my viewing experience. The big reveal literally just made me go "Huh." and that was it.

[@braydenmunro2385]

Everyone saw it coming by the 3rd episode so it doesn't really count as a spoiler

[@warrust]

In some way the spoiler is that there's no big twists to it

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

I dont even think she is the Power Broker, she calls someone at the end and something tells me that person is the PB.

[@Satellaview1889]

@@DismemberTheAlamo Dear me, I hope so.

[@anthonycates269]

The other thing about the Agnes reveal is that Marvel knew a lot of people would figure it out too, considering how often people always speculate about their content. So what did they do? They decided to have some fun with it and reveal the twist everyone saw coming with a hilarious song. Ya gotta love it.

[@nikolacatlak9875]

Agnes?

[@rahbeeuh]

@@nikolacatlak9875 Agatha Harkness

[@tutorialslave]

They revealed something even normies were aware of by episode 2 at the latest in episode 7, which is pretty pathetic.

[@cantthinkofaname5046]

@@tutorialslave you know what is even more pathetic? Using the term “normies” in 2021.

[@XenonRaider]

@@tutorialslave You're the type of person who doesn't see movies because they already know which actors are in it.

[@patricknguyen7530]

I think the worst part on the whole “aerospace engineer” thing was when Teyonnah Parris herself ended up hyping up the aerospace engineer saying she was excited to see everyone’s reaction

[@jamesscarborough6038]

It wasn’t just her, the whole cast was doing it. Paul trolling about the big celebrity in the finale, Elizabeth hyping up a Luke Skywalker level cameo, Emma Caulfield saying she was excited for everyone to see the true nature of her character, Fiege lying about the show’s runtime.

[@Spidey-oi5sn]

@@jamesscarborough6038 *iT's ThE fAnS's FaUlT sInCe ThEiR eXpEcTaTiOnS wErE hIgH*

[@runningwithscissors8612]

Apparently the cameo was cut, either for story reasons for because of COVID

[@cjtrules1]

If people logically thought about that theory it doesn't make sense. Why would Feige waste such a gigantic reveal in a Disney+ show? A part of the MCU he deemed unnecessary to watch the movies.

[@jamesscarborough6038]

@@cjtrules1 Expecting it to be Reed Richards was unrealistic but of course people were let down when it was revealed to be a random character with zero comic book history.

[@zeldablizzard]

The worst part of the aerospace engineer tease was that their entire contribution was that they arrived with a tank that did not do what it needed to do, and Monica just walked through the Hex anyway. The scene was next to useless. And then the writer comes out and says she was pleased with it, because fans expected Reed Richards, but it was actually a woman. And. Uh. Having a female character arrive to deliver two lines and then fail is about as weak as representation gets.

[@EfrainMan]

Beyond bad representation, it also feels kind of mean spirited. Same thing with Pietro, the writers were teasing something, then they all went "psych! it was nothing don't your theories look dumb now!" and it's disappointing instead of making you excited with their twist.

[@zeldablizzard]

@@EfrainMan At least with Pietro, the ambiguity was used effectively, like Nando explained. This one was just "you thought we were setting up for something cool? idiot. here's nothing"

[@HallowqueenCrafting]

The fans who were yelling about Reed Richards weren't paying attention to the scene where it was teased - they were explicitly using feminine pronouns when they were talking about the engineer. You're not wrong about the rest of it, though. It was disappointing on multiple levels - that it wasn't a more interesting character, that the character had little importance to the plot, and that the plan didn't work anyway.

[@projekttaku1]

but why didn't they just make sue storm? I would subvert fan expectations but not completely disappoint them and you could still have a woman

[@zeldablizzard]

Really? I'm looking at transcripts right now, and I don't see any feminine pronouns in regards to Major Goodner. In fact, in the shot right before the reveal, Monica says "Look, there they are".

[@epicbruhmoment6985]

After all the multiverse discourse in Wandavision I started laughing when Loki just brought it up 10 minutes into the show

[@joelmina4517]

I got tired with fan theories the moment Wanda stared at a bug in her home and everyone went, "It's Mephisto, cause he disguises himself as a fly" but it was a cicada in the show

[@shigekax]

@Diamond & Electric plus I think mephisto was uncalled for, with no comics knowledge, wanda doing everything because of grief and not a deal with satan is much more believable, interesting and something we rarely see on high budget superhero films People doing things because they can, want, or feel like it is highly underappreciated in fan theories. And tbh the mcu could drop the whole angels and demons and I would not mind, it's only worth it if you want a lot of ghost rider

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

@Diamond & Electric I belived in Mephisto untill ep3, when someone pointed out; They could never use him in a mayor movie, since China and other markets basiclly ban any movie with demons

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

@@jesusramirezromo2037 They didn't ban Hellboy, which is definitely a character with demonic connotations

[@thepubknight6144]

@rott right the same people are wanting Dr Doom to just show up it's like they don't care why he's showing up (they're still claiming the truck Stephen from moonknight said Von Doom despite they literally showed that it wasn't) I always think, we seen how Thanos was brought into the MCU it took 6 years of a build until we got him in infinity war and when we see him fight he owns the Hulk kills Heimdall and manhandles Loki and breaks his neck with his hand And Dr Doom is a much bigger threat to not only the avengers he's a supernatural threat and a cosmic threat It goes against what Kevin Feige has done throughout the MCU That's the issue, some of these fan theories just don't make logical sense they just want people to show up just to see them The best type of reveals if you do them is "Does this make sense in this film/tv show?" "What does this reveal do to enhance everything going forward?"

[@ghostratsarah]

I only hate fan theories when the creators make changes to their productions based on them. You end up with Voltron, that way

[@AzA609]

Yes! Dr Strange was supposed to be in WandaVision but changes cut him out. 😔 Edit: I misread the comment 🤠

[@KnightRaymund]

@@AzA609 I mean, he wasn't cut because of fan theories. He was cut because they felt he'd detract from rhe show's theme and distract from Wanda.

[@whatdidyousay1235]

And Rey's parents are Palpatine

[@MachStarry]

@@KnightRaymund but wizards

[@ZachBobBob]

Or the Rise of Skywalker

[@mawinstallation6626]

'Theory' is such a misused word. 'Hypothesis' makes more sense. 'Fanfiction precursors', even.

[@driveasandwich6734]

That's more in MCU, usually it's reinterpretations. :P

[@rowandunning6877]

@@driveasandwich6734 or just like any tv show

[@Cheeseit99]

Not everyone has a scientific backing. To the common person theory makes more sense.

[@cantthinkofaname5046]

Theory is more catchy though

[@motoXcR]

totally agree, i feel the same about the term "conspiracy theory" versus actual conspiracies

[@katherinealvarez9216]

I'll be honest: I see fan theories more as fanfiction prompts.

[@SupaSayinSkitch]

For Real Though!!! Lol

[@SupaSayinSkitch]

Honestly in the best way possible, these videos are fan fiction too! Fanfiction that, a lot of times, I enjoyed more than the original.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

@@SupaSayinSkitch I'm actually thinking about doing a Kid Loki fanfiction. I just need time. And motivation. And time.

[@AzA609]

@@katherinealvarez9216 There was kid Loki in the comics and he was sacrificed by adult Loki, I think.

[@mawinstallation6626]

I know right

[@mcclunky4366]

Fan theory: Nando is mephisto

[@arthurbriand2175]

Nando gave Coulson the Presidency and raised the Squadron Supreme as the only super team in the world? All hail Mephisto!!!

[@Amazing24Andy]

im shaking

[@ChocoboKid216]

That's one handsome devil.

[@thetruej7872]

I like fan theories. I just don't get my hopes up if the fan theory doesn't come true

[@KnightRaymund]

Exactly

[@soft_cactus]

exactly. i appreciate fan theories, they’re fun, but you have to be realistic with it

[@jadenmamangon9016]

Fan theories are fine when kept in check. They did wonders for Gravity Falls for example.

[@arnahunas4048]

Exactly.

[@najhoant]

One reason for why it worked with Gravity Falls was that it was a completely original, self-contained series. The MCU, on the other hand, has been going on for over a decade, has many more decades of comics to mine for more stories and millions of fans who desperately want to see some specific character on screen or some specific storyline be adapted, so all Marvel/Disney have to do is dangle the vaguest tease and they all pounce on it with so many theories that it won't be possible for most of them to be right

[@adamscott594]

The writers probably didn't think anything of the whole airspace engineer considering the main writer didn't even know who mephesto was

[@Vor567tez]

Yeah. During WV fans have been so overboard with fan theories that they couldn't believe that it can be just a random person and not a huge easter egg.

[@Romalac]

"Your answer to a question doesn't have to be what the fans say, but it needs to be more interesting than what the fans say." This. To everyone who has ever looked down on and sneered at disgruntled fans because "You're just mad your theories didn't come true!"- no, that's _not_ it, it's that the theories didn't pan out _and_ what we were given wasn't a more enjoyable substitute. If the show does us one better, everyone wins; if it doesn't, then yeah, disappointment will follow. It's not complicated.

[@fortrad5952]

An exception to this tho would be if a character is not very important. If we expect every side character that is being teased to be someone like Reed Richards, there is almost no way a writer could come up with something better than the fan theory. In the case of Hayward, he was always supposed to be a secondary antagonist. These kinds of villains are rarely very complex. I think it's okay to not like Hayward as a villain and expect something better, but a detail like that doesn't ruin a whole finale on its own.

[@bashfulbreloom9294]

@@fortrad5952 The thing is that kept teasing that it would be a cool reveal. Especially with the aerospace engineer. Also Dr.Strange didn't have to be in Thor and Hulk the body cop movie. Spiderman was introduced in a movie where he was completely unnecessary. There is precedent for characters appearing and having little effect. There is precedent for characters being introduced in a movie where they don't have a large effect and/or dont belong.

[@levelroc]

That's a part of the video i actually don't agree with, not totally at least. If it was something like "if you are not going for the most obvious approach at least go for one that is equally/more satisfying" i would 100% agree, but the mentality of constantly trying to one up the fans is what brought us the trainwreck that was the got finale. You don't have to outsmart your audience, expecially at the cost of narrative integrity.

[@StarryEyed0590]

@@levelroc It's not about outsmarting the fans, though. It's about keeping the implicit promises. Brandon Sanderson has a great video about this in one of his writing courses. If you hint to a child that you are going to give him a toy car, and then when it's finally time, you give him a rock, you're going to have an upset child. If you give him the toy car, you've met his expectations and he will be satisfied. If you give him a "life size" toy car that he can ride around in, he's going to be thrilled. Every time WV didn't match the fan theory, the result was boring.

[@mobiusbelts3607]

Your expectation that writers absolutely need to come up with something more interesting than the hivemind of hundreds of thousands of fans, every single time, is simply unrealistic.

[@migeme10]

I think what happened with WandaVision was that since it was a show that actively invited the audience asking questions, the audience was always going to naturally assume there was something more going on than what was currently revealed; which is a problem because WandaVision pretty much dropped all the answers to the main mystery in episode 4. Episode 4 we learned that the hex was all Wanda, who was on the outside trying to invade, and that there was a strong possibility someone on the inside was manipulating/framing Wanda. That's the whole of the reveals that happen at the end of the show, all given in episode 4. So now you have a fanbase that has been primed to examine and theorize about every tidbit of information they've been given naturally trying to expand on the answers given not even halfway through the series; while not actually having the mystery itself progress past that point. I still hold that the full reveal of what was going on would've felt MUCH more satisfying if they played their cards closer to their chest earlier on. Playing that reveal at the end of the show would've been big, but the way it was handled in the show we got just elicited a reaction of "Yeah...we know."

[@Grubnar]

Nando: Throg is the main villain of Loki! Everyone: **Giggle** Marvel: How does he know that? HOW DOES HE KNOW?

[@Keplin1000]

I have found the whole "Mephisto is everyone" theories really kind of frustrating or more so annoying? I always after watching an MCU movie would go watch reviews and some "small things you missed" videos or even some reaction videos but ever since Wanda Vision is been nothing but "is this man in this crowd shot Mephisto????? Is this bug on the wall Mephisto?????" And I find it just a bit much. Like I get buddy might be the next big bad, but lord it's getting a bit much cause I feel it's starting to overshadow the show's themselves.

[@ryzatheduck5195]

Sounds like something Mephisto would say.

[@Tai112336]

"Loki is right around the corner" Me: (looks over my shoulder)

[@TheStormbringer8751]

Hate to be that guy, but this video is about WandaVision. But the thumbnail would have you believe it's about Loki. The flip, Nando!?

[@ponodude101]

I think the idea there is that Loki is now the focus of the fans, so Nando is using the subject of the video, with WandaVision being the easiest target, to say "Maybe chill with this next show" which just happens to be Loki.

[@coolterra8491]

@@ponodude101 Loki is literally full of potential theories because of the TVA. I mean it could be that one dude from the comics who runs the TVA. Can't remember his name. But yeah like I've only seen like 2 actual theories that have some merit.

[@Arkholt2]

"I remember in the early internet days, the 2000s..." Everyone making Twin Peaks fan theories on Usenet in the early 90s: "what is this guy talking about, how young does he think the internet is"

[@dominomasked]

My last WandaVision fan theory: Dottie has turned out NOT to be Arcana Jones... yet. The series is a stealth origin for Arcana.

[@JacopoBasanisi]

The actress herself said (paraphrasing) she'd been cast just so people would think of Anya and assume she'd be someone meaningful

[@NelsonStJames]

The problem we face in the days of the internet that we didn't deal with when people talked at work or school about the show they just watched last night was that fan theories didn't affect the shows we were watching. When directors are on social media saying "your fan theories are wrong", it's almost certain that some fans had probably figured out what was going on, and the filmmakers felt the need to "subvert expectations". This has lead to possibly more bad media than we'll ever know, because a lot of the times (moreso now) fans do seem to have a lot more imagination than many professional screenwriters.

[@wallywest4727]

Thing is with Strange is Marvel said the show ties in with the Doctor Strange sequel what Wanda is in so naturally it was expected he would show up.

[@adambuckley2270]

I never wanted Strange in Wandavision so he could "save the day", I just wanted him there because his absence was distracting. He literally could've had a 5 second long post-credit scene and I would've been happy

[@tamapajamas]

But maybe he's not supposed to know about wanda yet or he knows better to step in bc he can see different futures yanno?

[@space237]

I also feel he neglected to mention the external factors as well like Kevin Feige telling us that this connected to doctor strange into the multiverse and the fact that she's in it. So we were all waiting for him to show up in some capacity to bridge those two stories which this absolutely does not. Why would she be in that movie when I'm reasonably sure they've never shared two lines of dialogue

[@yeahkeen2905]

@@tamapajamas he can’t see the future anymore. Time stone got destroyed.

[@tamapajamas]

@@yeahkeen2905 thought cap put them all back

[@superduperluin]

@@tamapajamas He wouldve given it back to the ancient one which means down the line that stone wouldve been destroyed in her timeline still

[@AndorRobotnik]

The engineer was mentioned ONCE and everybody just creamed thinking about John Kracinski like, DUDE

[@MagnusTNT]

Twice actually in episode 5 and 6

[@aaronfrey4418]

@@MagnusTNT And they emphasized it when she mentioned the engineer. The camera would zoom in on Monica's phone as she was texting them. They made it seem important.

[@cantthinkofaname5046]

They famed it as important, so it’s actually understandable

[@creed8712]

@@cantthinkofaname5046 that was your fault for being perceptive to visual story telling which is how things should be done.

[@Vor567tez]

@@aaronfrey4418 So shouldn't u hv taken the phone is important since it's the phone that was in focus?

[@LetsPlayGamez]

I would also say that a certain "Rockstar" was everyone's downfall into Mephisto-land.

[@username1t1k]

A certain "new" rockstar?😅😅😅

[@slashercat8649]

Erik Voss is Mephisto

[@TheLionsInLuv]

I'd argue that is true as well as a particularly large, maybe even "heavy", "spoiler"

[@anthonybryson533]

As someone that's followed Marvel comics since the late 70's, and was aware of the comic's storylines, Mephisto was a natural theory. It's like as if Jaws left out Quint. When the finale fizzled in brilliant skybeams, yeah, not ashamed to admit disappointment. Just my most humblest of opinion.

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

@@TheLionsInLuv At least they sort of apologysed and admited and jumped ship on the theory NewRockstars decided to die on the mephisto hill even after the show ended

[@DerezzedMan]

Nando: Wandavision is a mystery show Disney: BOHNER

[@TheRockerX]

"The thing didn't happen the way the fan theory said, so it was bad" reminds me of how a lot of people reacted negatively to Attack on Titan's final chapter because their pet fan theory called 'AnR' wasn't made cannon.

[@echotheworld8686]

I like fan theories. I like what people come up with but people always take it too seriously and tell others to "stop fan theories".

[@JordanWheeler1999]

Mcu fan theories are a bit ludicrous

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

But some of them are completely ridiculous and unrealistic. Then people buy into these and then get super disappointed when a quick mention of a random engineer doesn't turn out to be one of the most famous Marvel characters

[@cryofpaine]

I think you nailed it. The problem is when the fan theories are more satisfying than the canon content. The Paul Bettany one was great. It was a fun prank on the fans that wasn't condescending or mean-spirited. Dr. Strange, ok that's disappointing, but at least they said we were right, he would have been there if the pandemic hadn't hit. But the big ones, Bohner and Mephisto - those had two problems. One - there was a lot of stuff teased there. Because they did intend *something* (the cut demon scene) that never followed through. And two - they didn't connect those loose threads to anything meaningful. So there was a clear hole where *something* should have gone. That's when you get a lot of upset fans, is when you set expectations, and then don't do anything with them. You don't fulfill them, you don't subvert them, you don't even acknowledge them. Then of course, whatever the fans come up with is by default going to be better than what is there, because what is there is literally nothing.

[@phil6748]

I’m in a space where If my fan theories come true, cool. If they don’t? that’s cool too. I don’t put my watching experience in fan theories because it takes too much from the story the show is trying to tell.

[@arthurbriand2175]

When you mentionned Mephisto I thought you would include the Mephisto church statue from Heroes Reborn issue 4. That panel was gorgeous.

[@Fungo4]

"Your answer to a question doesn't have to be what the fans say, but it needs to be more interesting" This is exactly my deal with this kind of stuff. I'm just some guy, so if I can come up with an idea that turns out better than something people were paid to write professionally, it feels like a big problem. Of course this isn't truly fair, because even discounting limitations it may very well be that THOUSANDS of people CAN sometimes write better than professionals, and that's just how it goes.

[@jaspervanheycop9722]

No, the reason you figured it out is because the writers did their job well. Beyond blind guess theories (why do people do this anyway?) most theories are based on what is in the text, i.e. what the writers put there.

[@LordSusaga]

I kinda disagree. Everyone can come up with an idea, and people are always going to think their ideas are better than everyone else's. The reason those people were paid is that they were able to put their ideas into a workable script that fits not just the medium but the entire franchise it's built into. In the end, ideas are cheap.

[@andrewshandle]

@@LordSusaga exactly, an idea is worth $20, it's the execute of that idea that is worth 20 million. Anyone can come up with an idea.

[@christianlynch1424]

Wandavision was affected by a lack of re-shoots due to Covid. Some of the rushed elements of the final episode are a direct result of this.

[@ThatFreeWilliam]

I love that in Loki we they're just actively taunting us now.

[@briansilva3344]

I love that they predicted certain hyps, since this was the first series that was green light by Marvel Studios.

[@macmcleod1188]

Kevin Feige's comment on this: "Some people might say, ‘Oh, it would’ve been so cool to see Dr. Strange. But it would have taken away from Wanda, which is what we didn’t want to do. We didn’t want the end of the show to be commoditized to go to the next movie - here’s the white guy, ‘Let me show you how power works.’"

[@ultimamage3]

Cue Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, presumably about the white guy showing the lady how power works or fixing a mistake she made. So empowering.

[@theboywonderlol]

"keep your expectations low and you will never be disappointed"

[@alphabettical1]

If it wasnt for fan theories I wouldnt have been invested in marvel throughout the gap between infinity war and endgame

[@ArnoldiiSaurus]

Actually throg could appear due to Lego leaks of Disney+ Cmf but he's probably not gonna be the villain.

[@Flounderboy15]

My philosophy is that fan theories should be like playing in a sandbox. Make up your facsimile of the actual thing, but be prepared to walk away from your facsimile knowing that it has no bearing on the actual thing. The make believe is the fun part.

[@UnwittingSweater]

"Hope for the best, plan for the worst." Nando is Jack Reacher Confirmed.

[@Holthis]

“No spoilers for The Falcon and The Winter Soldier because that’s not really relevant” proceeds to spoil that Sharon Carter is the power broker

[@ThompsonBrosStudios]

I mean, the thing about the mephisto theories, is it was a way that the show could tie to other future marvel projects. even if it was just a hint at the end, like with wanda hearing her kids calling out for help while she used her magic, all the jokes and memes aside, I think we could still be setting up for him down the road, no reason not to. Also, theory time, just because pietro wasn't really pietro, doesn't mean he couldn't end up as this universes NEW quicksilver. I mean Monica still has her powers, so why not Ralph? It was never really clear whether his powers came from wanda or agathas meddling, so why not? Nothing seems to be off the table at this point for Marvel... lol.

[@Mari0798]

I don’t think Mephisto is ever showing up. China forbids demon/devil figures and lookalikes and whatever in their media, and Marvel is never going to (willingly) lose their numbers.

[@ThompsonBrosStudios]

@@Mari0798 I get where you're coming from, but I think there are ways around that. Maybe he doesn't LOOK demonic, or maybe they explain him sort of like Dormamu, a more cosmic entity who rules over another dimension, or maybe they simply use Chthon instead, etc. Nando even talked about some of these possibilities in a previous video. Either way, rumors are ghost rider will be coming around soon, can't really have him and avoid mephisto altogether...

[@renatoe9648]

i guess they could course correct later like with the mandarin, but as for the show they just dropped the ball cause the writer is unfamiliar with the comics

[@patax144]

True also the fact that there was this deleted scene of confronting the Demon bunny where he was invited for some reason, also the DOFP reference with Tommy and Billy, did uncle P tell them how to defeat cops and steal hats from them?

[@Mari0798]

@@ThompsonBrosStudios you are so right! that is true, i just haven’t thought about it that way, i never could picture it not being a demon and stuff. do you think there’s a change china would ban it just bc it’s public kneeled it it’s a demon? i guess not! anyways i will check the video out, and I’ve seen the ghost rider rumors too

[@The4thSnake]

There's also the fact that Wanda was confirmed to be in Dr. Strange 2. Setting that up here would make sense.

[@wafflingmean4477]

Hayward could have been 1000 times better if they just gave one or two more specific lines of dialogue (and alter or cut the insult at Monica's mother dying), perhaps him believing the world was wrong and Tony Stark was right to create Ultron. And they should have just had him... not shoot at a child? And then boom. Almost no plot points change but Hayward goes from dumb villain to deep antihero.

[@boshwa20]

If these theories actually came true, it would just turn WandaVision into one big advertisement

[@thepubknight6144]

Right isn't what the same fans said about the MCU's Peter Parker that he had to be talked into being spiderman (even though he wasn't) now they want all these X-Men or fantastic four characters to just show up with no build because "it will be cool"?

[@tommygraziano1084]

I love how you mentioned lost because I’ve been rewatching it again with my brother and we’ve been coming up with all our own theories and trying to figure out the whole story and it’s been heaps of fun just revising and theorising after each episode. It’s such a great show to just talk about and give your own interpretation.

[@magotheguy173]

I feel like MCU theories are different than most others because there’s a wealth of material to draw from. The issue is that a lot of the theories should be somewhat right, but for some reason, Marvel keeps hiring people that aren’t fans of the characters they’re writing for OR they gas something up just so they can make a joke out of the viewers for wanting actual content

[@aidanlau390]

I can’t wait to come back to this and praise you for correctly predicting Throg will be in Loki

[@JusRed23]

I feel like I'm the only one that didn't make anything of the aerospace engineer line. It seemed like general conversation to me.

[@byronsenior6499]

Same.

[@perezortegavalentin9343]

Those first few minutes summarized an essay I gave to a teacher literally like...yesterday, the Netflix Chunk release vs Weekly release thing, it was really dope seeing someone I really like talk about the topic and summarize the whole thing in like, 3 minutes.

[@Courfeyracc]

You brought back long forgotten memories of the official Lost message board. Those were fun days.

[@UpgradeJ]

My first experience with fan theories was with anime as people would always try to use knowledge of the writer's style as well as philosophy, mythology, and other mediums to try and predict where the story would go and how it would conclude. For me, fan theories always come from a place of appreciating the work and being inspired by the writer/artist. They would also lead to fans expanding their horizons when it comes to literature, history, and even culture

[@joesterstudios]

Nando: No spoilers for Falcon and the Winter Soldier Also Nando: *Sharon Carter is the Power Broker*

[@warriorlizard7246]

well, he didn't actively say that, i'm only part way through, to the point I know there's something amiss but not exactly what. I wouldn't say that the video necessarily spoils that, I would, however, say your comment does.

[@joesterstudios]

@@kenz526 Not really, because she was pretty prominent in the trailers

[@joesterstudios]

@@warriorlizard7246 5:10 It's pretty obvious what he's suggesting, because shortly after showing a frame of the "Power Broker is right" shot, he starts talking about how he figured out a twist involving Sharon Carter. Plus, he explicitly says that there's a big twist involving Sharon Carter that he predicted, which I would say is a big enough spoiler on it's own.

[@barryallen871]

@@joesterstudios Pretty obvious if you've seen the show or the Sharon video. If you've seen neither, for all you know Sharon Carter gets killed by Zemo and that's what Nando was referring to. Most people didnt even know what/who the PB was before FatWS.

[@warriorlizard7246]

@@joesterstudios Yes, I still think that even saying there is twist is a spoiler, but the implications don't necessarily mean anything if you don't know it, you could put it together from those things, but I hadn't done so, since all I knew was where she was and there was something up. so I figured he just used those shots as those storylines are from the same show and area. Some spoilers aren't actually spoilers if you don't already have the context for them, such as this one.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

Saw this on Nebula, it's great! Excited to hear more thoughts on Loki

[@MONET8iAM]

I like watching recap videos to help me pick on things I might’ve missed or couldn’t read so deep into, but I realized that I come across fan theories (from fans who’ve read source material) too often than I’d like. I know that Lovecraft Country is a book, but I would just be so puzzled as to why people would have such accurate fan theories. Like how were they able to know what changes the show made matched up to something from the book i.e. a character switch?

[@omarimus2260]

The crew behind wandavision said they didn't know who mephisto even was

[@andrewshandle]

What "crew"? Like the camera people? Maybe, but the writers most definitely would since they did pull a lot of things from a storyline in the comics where Mephisto was present.

[@omarimus2260]

@@andrewshandle www.cbr.com/wandavision-boss-never-heard-of-mephisto/

[@DarthRue17]

10:39 they also couldn’t get Benedict Cumberbatch out to the filming location because of the pandemic

[@masterfasterfactor8172]

The real Mephisto was the friends we made along the way

[@meloD30]

If we're gonna talk about this surely we have to talk about KZbin's rumor mill industry. I mean those channels that hype up theories and spoilers non-stop without much thought. Theorising is like drinking, best done responsibly and expect a headache the next day.

[@Stinkoman87]

The problem is, KZbinrs need views, and views need content. So they feel like they have to talk about whatever is new and hot, even if they have to resort to baseless speculation to get the hits.

[@andsotheadventurebegins2030]

But you have your own critical thoughts right? So why would you go into a show believing that a fan theory is 100% correct and then blame it on the person who made the theory knowing that it'll probably be wrong? Fan theories are fun because they hype up the source material and the show/movie you're watching! Not because it's fun to be right about everything!

[@kemdom]

Nando, you just made me ring that bell near the subscribe button. Keep it up! :)

[@NandovMovies]

I love it!

[@Revilod]

Your Throg theory actually has validity to it. There a Lego Marvel blind bag series coming out and the leaks suggest a Loki minifigure in his Variant jacket with a Throg.

[@RaviBMaharaj]

You forgot that Señor Scratchy was also Mephisto

[@kennyholmes5196]

"Just around the corner" You uploaded it on the day the first episode aired. Turns out, the answer to "who's the villain of Loki" is *way* more interesting than it being Frog Thor.

[@Theraot]

Time passes differently in here, you'll catch up.

[@kennyholmes5196]

@@Theraot You mean like with how you have those fancy paperweights? Considering what they are, I think that time happens all at once and not at all.

[@Darkdragon902.]

@@kennyholmes5196 I’m a fan of the idea that they have 14,000,605 sets of those paper weights.

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

Two Throgs

[@user-jb6fo3un2p]

At least Nando got it right. Throg is in Loki!

[@Szanth]

1:40 That's still a dance you have to do regardless of release model, as soon as more than one episode has been released, because you still have to ask how much they've seen to know how much you can discuss.

[@tails1152]

I actually missed the aerospace engineer line when watching initially, and even if I did I didn't give it any thought after hearing it. So after hearing people were getting hype for a Reed Richards cameo I was like "What in the world are you people talking about? It's not impossible that he could make an appearance, but it feels WAY too early into Phase 4 for something we may be only getting towards the end of it or at least years away from relevance."

[@StarryEyed0590]

I didn't think he would make an appearance, but I did think maybe there would be a name drop. It's very similar to things they did in Phase1. Hank Pym and Bruce Banner were casually-mentioned scientists before they started interacting on-screen with the other characters.

[@tails1152]

@@StarryEyed0590 That's makes sense. That does make a lot more sense considering that they know they're gonna use the Fantastic Four, but don't have all the details in stone yet I'd presume.

[@ultimamage3]

@@StarryEyed0590 Doctor Strange was casually mentioned in Winter Soldier. It took 2 years later for him to show up.

[@mblack3450]

I remember those chat rooms for Lost. It was like being in a govt think tank with a ton of crazy people. Lol

[@tabiusthompson8101]

Great video Nando. Hey for a future rewrite can you rewrite Wonder Woman 1984 ? I would love to see what you come up with !

[@bludfyre]

That was, without a doubt, the BEST sponsor transition I have ever seen. It felt more well written and organic than 90% of the movies Hollywood produces

[@alecLogan]

Rather than fan theories ruining shows, expectations poison fan theories. The better written the theory, the more fitting it is to the narrative (as it is understood by the viewer), the higher the expectation that it’ll come about. It goes hand in hand with low hanging fruit; if something is expected because it tracks, that expectation gets roots because “clearly that’s where it was headed already.” And some (possibly a vocal minority) insist on calling it “cliche” (like that’s a bad thing) when it follows through and “subversive” when it doesn’t.

[@alexanderbyrne9684]

9:06 I would 100% be down for that to be/have been Maverick's introduction.

[@Jonnycrs]

WandaVision was also an unfortunate case. I feel like the show did some misleading, red herrings. Which in any other show wouldn't be a huge deal. But, with WandaVision we had, 1. Spider-man 3, Multiverse leaks 2. Dr. Strange & the Multiverse of Madness 3. Wanda leads into Dr. Strange 2 3. Elizabeth Olsen mistaking a Skywalker sized cameo 4. Paul Bettney trolling with his clone 5. The basis for Season 1 being so intertwined with Mutants and Mephisto. Had some of these leaks/rumors not been a thing we would have seen a different outcome. This was just a bunch of things lining up at the right time and Fans just went with it.

[@sagarvishe3463]

Finally someone who do recognise and discuss this problem

[@petecuss8434]

Regarding what you said about Throg, there’s a rumour/leak that he will show up in Loki as he is listed as part of a Lego set based off Loki and the other Disney plus shows

[@mike3325able]

The final commercial (go see your doctor and ask about nexus) was rumoured to have been Benedict’s cameo, but they couldn’t get him for the reshooting so they ultimately just cut his cameo and hired an extra to be the doctor

[@CMAlongi]

I love the MCU and the new Marvel shows. But I have never read the Marvel comics. Ever. Not one. I had never even heard the name "Mafisto" (is that how you spell it?) until today. And I think this makes for a better viewing experience, because I'm not setting the movies up against a vast, complex web of comic book characters and storylines. I'm just enjoying THIS story as it unfolds.

[@dinojonesjr195]

This video was so needed! I went into Captain Marvel prepared for a secret invasion plot line and was super disappointed

[@lordofninjas1]

Well you'll be excited to know that Marvel has confirmed back in December that they are doing a Secret Invasion Disney+ show, with Sam Jackson, Ben Mendelsohn, Olivia Colman, and Emilia Clarke attached to it.

[@nottasker]

Let's go Lost is my favourite show I'm so glad you talked about it.

[@emilyferkin7431]

Very glad I watched Lost before all of these shows started coming out. It really helped to disillusion me from fan theories (in this case, just my own thoughts) in general. Don't get me wrong, they're fun, but I've learned to not get too invested in them.

[@redharvest298]

Thank you for reminding of my wasted Lost mental exercises. I can only hope and pray I can remember to NEVER trust JJ on story resolution.

[@elonmusket5676]

The problem with the wandavision fan theories is that in my opinion the theories were better than the outcome

[@weirdbro6597]

The multiverse ones? Yes, the mephisto ones? No those are dumb

[@vigilantsycamore8750]

I haven't been that into the MCU since post-Civil War, although I did have a theory about who would die and who would live in Infinity War that was... COMPLETELY wrong... But when it comes to DC, I AM going to hold on to my theory that the Riddler in The Batman is a reporter who was framed after trying to expose a conspiracy, wound up in prison, escaped, and is now trying to tip Bats off to the conspiracy's existence

[@edenfahima-ilan1643]

The Court of Owls were rumored to be in the movie, so that sounds really cool!

[@driveasandwich6734]

That's a lot of assumptions

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

I'm gonna say it. The biggest problems were the people who knew/read one thing from the comics, heck, ANYTHING from the comics, and tried to find a way to make the story fit that thing they knew. Essentially grasping at straws to get any and all of their theories out there even tangentially related to the topic. Throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what statistically would stick so that they could wave their flag and be like "See? I TOLD YOU I was right!" I wasn't aware consuming media had become a competitive sport.

[@mr781mass9]

So if you didn't grow up reading a comic book, you can't make a prediction if your just a fan of the movies/shows? I've never read a comic book, i don't hate on any1 who has, i love every thing to do with the MCU & play MCOC daily. I'll look stuff up & get into convos/debates with people who actually read the comics & they're way off & I'm not always right, but my point is, you can get just as much knowledge reading up an entire characters history online, as you can from a comic book you read decades ago. I get your point, but reading comics is far from a competitive sport as well lol

[@thorodinson8185]

Great video. And thank you for being brave enough to admit that in fact, ralph Bohner was hilarious

[@Mr.Gnomebody]

It's frustrating when writers (usually for an ongoing series, but sometimes for movies if the ending gets leaked) seem to go out of their way to avoid using ANY idea the fans come up with, even when the fan theory might be the most reasonable/logical thing to happen. It's like they have this intense need to be smarter than their audience, so if the audience does reasonably predict what could/should happen, they spitefully change it to something (anything) else.

[@k00pa]

Came for the dissection of fan theories as a whole, stayed for the surprise Make Some Noise theme in the background

[@richardhutnik]

Wandavision theorizing ruined things for me, and made me realize that spoilers are more than just the ending that can be spoiled.

[@koalasquare2145]

Is there a way to link to the nebula + segment in the description? Because I prefer to watch on KZbin and it's a lot of effort to go to nebula and find the right Timecode.

[@NandovMovies]

That's a great idea. I can do that.

[@cometpunch]

I think the problem with some of the fan theories was that the actors stoked some of them too, like Teyonnah Parris hyping the aerospace engineer and Paul Bettany with the example you mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel keeps a tighter hold on what their actors say in interviews for the Disney+ shows from now on

[@hunterlawrence3573]

Sure, there's satisfaction for predicting a story correctly, but don't forget how great it can be to be wrong. Especially when all the proper clues are there, but you don't notice them because your distracted by all of the red herrings. It leads to a "How did I not see this coming!?" moment.

[@victorcsavage]

I think the place where fan theories really became detrimental to the show was WestWorld, though it was really the showwriter's fault. The fact that people kept guessing the twists correctly meant the showwriters changed plot points to foil them. We haven't heard a ton from other writers' rooms but considering how Game of Thrones went I wouldn't be surprised if that's become something writers are now thinking about.

[@christianlynch1424]

We didn't technically meet the Aero Space Engineer that Monica mentioned. They could still explain that later, likely in Captain Marvel 2.

[@Vor567tez]

See this is the problem with fan theories.

[@Serjohn]

there are no red herrings, Jac Schaeffer had never read comic books, she didnt even know who mephisto was when the episodes aired, she said nah i dont read comics i like movies

[@ponodude101]

I'm pretty sure that was an exaggeration or a joke. There's no way she could've been involved in implementing certain elements of the show without reading the source material, which she couldn't have done with this specific source material without at least seeing Mephisto.

[@Serjohn]

@@ponodude101 no she didnt, they hired a woman because only a woman can tell a woman's story, they get sjw like that at marvel, and ends up she had never comics, she literally learned who mephisto was from the fan theories

[@ItsIntelligentDesign]

What fan wanted Mephisto involved? I hope he never goes anywhere near the MCU, because I live in fear that if he does we’ll end up getting a live action adaptation of One More Day

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

If Mephisto shows up we could get Ghost Rider.

[@ItsIntelligentDesign]

@@auberginemanproductions1608 We got the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider on AoS without Mephisto. And I'd rather give up Ghost Rider if it means eliminating the threat of a live action One More Day adaptation

[@carealoo744]

I can't believe talking about Wandavision fan-theories is already bringing back nostalgia

[@lilsabin]

benedict cumberbach (DOCTOR STRANGE) was suppose to film a cameo scene at the end , he couldnt because of the pandemic , and it was revealed that some of the anomalies ( the commercial) was DR STRANGE trying to communicate with her .

[@SoundBlackRecordings]

I mean that can literally happen with any show how ever close the episodes are spaced now because we all watch tv at our own choosing since everything is online now.