The HYDRA Problem - Captain America: The Winter Soldier

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Captain America: The Winter Soldier is held up as one of the best movies the Marvel Cinematic Universe has to offer. But, with one small change, could Winter Soldier deliver on some conflicts set up in the first act to tell a more interesting story?
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[@_carsonhayes_]

Nando revealing all his Captain America merch: I can do this all day...

[@acgeewhiz]

I understood that reference!

[@norae5801]

He puts Coulson to shame

[@Wyeuca]

Nailed it.

[@hdesale2]

this

[@jomz2058]

@@norae5801 please 😒

[@blipmachine]

There's one BIG reason this rewrite doesn't work: The MCU has consistently established Fury as the one person who firmly believes in the Avengers. He'll never go down the "there are some things the Avengers can't solve" route.

[@IAmAPhan]

Yup! It simply won't make sense if he's the one who established the Avengers only to undermine it by having an automated targeting system.

[@Getwright-]

He already did, in the first act of the actual movie. He knows about the helicarriers and the targeting system. Thats what his whole conversation with Steve is about. Yeah he believes in the Avengers and that theyll be able to handle stuff like loki or if the Kree had returned, but he doesn't think the avengers will covertly assassinate a foreign dictator or anything, which is what the helicarriers were made to do (at least thats what Fury thought they were built to do)

[@blipmachine]

TheBd62 yeah I realize he said that in the movie. I meant he won’t go to these lengths and become the bad guy. It feels pretty out of character.

[@Getwright-]

@@blipmachine yeah, the whole sending buck after them on the freeway does seem like overboard and out of character for him. Those parts would need a rewrite. But the manipulating EVERYONE around him thing seems right up his alley. It would build on that scene in avengers when we see that he literally went to colsons locker and got the cards and dipped them in colsons blood just to make them more impactful (we also we find out in agents of shield was transporting colsons body to storage so he could secretly bring it back to life) An easy write around would be that he wanted Steve to save Bucky somehow (he just didn't want Steve to destroy his helicarriers)

[@aidancurry218]

He could always have a justification like: The Avengers were assembled to handle international, extraterrestrial threats, and you have succeeded thus far. But there could be bigger threats out there. Thor isn’t here right now, is he? That’s one heavy hitter. Hulk is always rarin’ to go, but he can’t be controlled. And as much as I hate to admit it, despite their talent, agents Romanoff and Barton are only human. That leaves you and Tony. Two men against an alien army. Imagine what would have happened if we hadn’t found you in time. Heaven forbid it, New York would be rubble if Stark hadn’t been kidnapped a few years back. The Avengers are powerful, there’s no doubting it. But if we are gonna avoid using these, we’ll need a lot more Avengers.

[@thisislydiarae]

I like this, except for one thing. If Hydra isn't the villain, then we don't get Cap's badass elevator move in Endgame. I still get excited when I watch him whisper "hail Hydra," and waltz out of the elevator with the mind stone.

[@EmperorSteele]

*Loki's Staff/Mind Stone =)

[@thisislydiarae]

@@EmperorSteele Whoops! Fixed it.

[@srstriker6420]

StandingWind Productions I think other villains should have been in endgame

[@johnbalk6091]

StandingWind Productions I’m sure that Nandi will clarify all that stuff in the second video.

[@harryeast95]

Just change it up a bit. Pierce is anti-Insight and Fury is pro-Insight and STRIKE is on Fury's side. A sort of factional conflict within SHIELD (a bit like Real SHIELD vs Coulson SHIELD in AoS S2). And so Cap says "I'm with Fury" instead. The question I have is how does Hive fit into it? Before the Sony deal, AoS and the movies were pretty clearly working in tandem to develop the Inhumans plotline (which was thrown out the window because Spidey).

[@hashbrown9541]

"oh so he didn't have things to decorate the background with" ... "oh wow okay nvm"

[@timhaldane7588]

They had us in the first half, not gonna lie.

[@FlackNCoke]

The other reason they'd never have done this is because making Fury the out and out villain means he can't be used in later movies unless they go out of their way to redeem him. But doing that would require time and focus that they just didn't have.

[@StormyKopaAMVs]

Fury appeared briefly in an arguably non-crucial role in _Age of Ultron._ After that he wasn't seen until the _Infinity War_ post-credits scene, and then Tony's funeral in _Endgame._ It really wouldn't have been hard to write Fury as being on the run following _The Winter Soldier._ In fact, the moment he calls Captain Marvel could have been his turning point, when he finally accepts that no amount of firepower in the name of "security" could have protected the Earth the way the Avengers did. It would have made his presence at the funeral feel that much more impactful.

[@rangerwickett]

@@StormyKopaAMVs Or imagine he pops up briefly in Civil War, and gives help to Tony to track down Steve, because he's got a bit of a vendetta.

[@TheDarkDrummer43]

@@StormyKopaAMVs Yeah at first I thought this plot would jeopardize Fury's future movie roles, but now that I think about it, he wasn't very consequential in future movies. The only problem might be that if the audience sees Fury as this antagonist to the Avengers, it'll be harder for him to help Spider-man (I guess it was Talos but same idea). But, I suppose if they went with this plot they'd have plenty of time to fix that, or just use Maria Hill herself. Then as Ryan said, he could have an interesting role in Civil War in returning to hunt down Cap.

[@trentonkearney4087]

Could have been put into infinity war/endgame where he has a sort of “I told you so” kind of moment. I mean they kinda made TWS absolutely pointless when they decided “hey, wouldn’t it be cool if Tony secretly had a weaponized satellite he never used.”

[@fatball9084]

I believe it would be not necessarily a lot of time if you rewrite the age of Ultron, as Tony's and Fury's projects have a lot of similarities (or at least I see a lot of similarities). Just let participate in the project (like bruce) and redeem him seeing how it destroys all or let the arc be offscreen and make it that Fury is the one to save Jarvis because he was spying (remember that he is a spy) Tony to frustrate the Ultron project. This can be 5 - 10 minutes and can give enough to justify his future films. But you could do the age of Ultron so Tony and Fury do the same redeem arc but different and do it through all the film.

[@junglekiity]

If this was a stand alone movie, I feel like this take would work very well. However, since this movie has to play well with others in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I'm not sold on turning Fury and SHIELD into the antagonists. Well, maybe SHIELD, but not Fury; he just has too big a role to play in stories to come. Also, I really love evil Robert Redford. I would say the easiest fix would be to give the Helicarrier tour and "Grandfather with a Gun" story to him, instead of Fury, to build him up as a non-hydra bad guy.

[@bartholemeowthefirst]

Really? One post credits scene in infinity war, the eagle hellicarier scene in AOU, and the funeral scene? Honestly, i have to say that it would not change much.and would in fact make for some awesome character growth and change throughout the mcu. Id explain more but im on a mobile device.

[@harryeast95]

I mean, Fury's been on the run from the establishment in the comics fairly often anyway. And it's not like his role in the subsequent films is that big either. He turns up with the Helicarrier in AoU, which would have some complexity given the role of Helicarrier's in Insight and before that helps Tony in Clint's barn. So, then you move into Civil War and Cap's sceptical of Tony because he thinks he's maintaining links with fugitive Fury. I'm blanking but what else was Fury in other than Age of Ultron? Was he in Civil War? In any case, the next important film is Captain Marvel which is a prequel so that's unaffected and then we've got Far From Home which should be fine as is. One, Cap's dead (well, they make it sound that way). Two, Peter's very much Tony's guy, not Cap's. Three, Talos!Fury is kind of underground a bit. Only real problem is Maria Hill. Although maybe the second half of the video addresses that. Guess I'll check that tomorrow. (If it was the comics not a problem at all... Fury would just be rolling with Daisy Johnson instead. But she's obviously in AoS and definitely leans towards the "freedom" over "security" angle so...)

[@captainobvious90]

​@@bartholemeowthefirst the way I see it, the Avengers was apart of SHIELD since it was conceived by Fury under the circumstance of Avengers 1. They need to remove the control of SHIELD and the hold the Security Council have on them so that the Avengers can operate much more freely and without jurisdiction the way we see them in AoU and Civil War. Also in my opinion, Project Insight without the Hydra element and the algorithm is almost the same like every other weapons the US has right now. Fury wouldn't have the motivation to assassinate civilians that could pose a threat to them like Hydra would. I couldn't see Steve punching his way to stop its launch due to these reasons, or he would have to go against the entire US for all the weapons they possess. He probably would just quit SHIELD and fight through other means.

[@RM-cn8pw]

Bartholemeow The first That’s not character growth though. That would literally be disregarding character for the sake of an arbitrary twist.

[@marcusduck]

that's the problem with fans trying to "fix" the mcu movies. They don't look at it from a bigger, cinematic perspective.

[@dennisconnors2178]

The contrast between Captain America and Nick Fury about being the idealist and realist honestly reminds me of the interactions between Charles and Erik.

[@tugboatyan]

“Let’s say his loyalties changed and he just Paperclip’d into Shield.” ...I see what you did there, and I both understand that reference and appreciate it!

[@Shadowwand]

well I'm not sure I do

[@RoofTopRenegade]

@@Shadowwand real life Operation Paperclip en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

[@ChazNatlo]

It's been a while, but don't they make explicit reference to operation paperclip in the movie?

[@Shadowwand]

@@RoofTopRenegade oh thanks. I knew about recruiting the German Scientists, I just never had heard it referred to as Operation Paperclip.

[@jerrymathewninan6739]

@@Shadowwand They explicitly name drop Operation Paperclip in Winter Soldier.

[@bigcreme4366]

The enemy isn't Hydra, the enemy is Steve's reliance and trust in a system: something that will always relegate him to just being a weapon and as a weapon, he has little to no say in who he's pointed at.

[@icecreambone]

i disagree that it shouldnt be hydra, but i think hydra could've been handled much more subtly. most of the shield hydra ops shouldn't know they're working for hydra; they should be manipulated into believing they're working for their own ideals. that would preserve the conflict of ideals AND hydra's involvement as an educational commentary on how nazis have evolved in the real world, co-opting and corrupting our ideals for their own purposes also zola shouldn't have been a supercomputer they could talk to. he should've just been straight up dead, albeit still responsible for the direction shield is going in. maybe the movie shouldn't have had a truly evil antagonist at all, only people continuing to carry ideals that have been corrupted by evil people. there not being a true mastermind (alive) would've made a great reveal imo

[@LarryBonson]

This needs more likes.

[@synteis]

Agreed.

[@zemaumm]

That would have been a great reveal as well ( zola not being alive and having no major antagonist ). Cap / Falcon / Black Widow goes further and further down into a rabbit hole, and the big reveal moment is that there wasn't a big mastermind. That it was rather people worshipping a dead ideal that instrumented into a secret organization.

[@MetalMarauder]

I agree

[@TACHY0N0]

I agree with almost everything you said. Only thing I would keep is only have the Strike Team be active Hydra agents. Say if Hydra is more subtle, Pierce is still running things so he would most likely want a skilled team watching SHIELD’s top two agents, Cap and Widow, in case they ever caught on.

[@TheDersitePhantom]

I think this would be a great idea if The Winter Soldier was a standalone movie, but it's not. It didn't need to resolve the "Captain America defying a law he considers unjust and going against the government" arc, because that arc was always meant to be finished in Civil War. The Winter Soldier acts as a midpoint between the First Avenger, where he is totally loyal to the government and doesn't have to make hard decisions, and Civil War, where he decides to value freedom over security and defy a law he considers unjust. If the arc was finished in The Winter Soldier, then you'd essentially be ending his character arc in the second film of the trilogy. I do think that your rewrite would have made The Winter Soldier a bit better, but I think it would have made the MCU worse, so I'm glad the creators made the decisions they did. Of course, maybe your upcoming video on Civil War presents a compelling substitute for the third part of Cap's character arc that keeps the continuous feel across the trilogy. If so, I look forward to hearing it.

[@wisdommanari6701]

But fighting against nazis is the eazy thing besides its different. One is fighting against his own government the other is siding or aligning with the UN.

[@RM-cn8pw]

Doubtful. Also, he’s got a video on Civil War upcoming? 🤦‍♂️Ugh.

[@romxxii]

​@@wisdommanari6701 No point in being different for the sake of being different. That's so juvenile.

[@yuvi3000]

Plus, it essentially ruins the point of S1 of the Agents of SHIELD show which focused heavily on HYDRA's invasion of SHIELD. I loved that show and I wouldn't sacrifice it just to change a small plot point in an already great movie.

[@williamdaviddiazcuchimaque7511]

Nisiquiera pensaban hacer civil war solo lo hicieron porque dc iba a lanzar bvs

[@alphamega1811]

"Unfortunately, all i had was..." *proceeds to name all 7,312 items he owns of Captain America*

[@xlz24]

Making Fury the antagonist would have been more in the spirit of the paranoid thriller genre The Winter Soldier (sort of) belongs to, but I think the movie already accomplishes the same thing you're getting at, just in a more oblique way. From 2008-2014, SHIELD was the connective tissue of the MCU, and was of particular importance to Cap; revealing that it'd been a front for fascists the entire time forces him to question his loyalty to institutions, to the point where he's on the run from the government two movies later. Additionally, from a thematic standpoint, I don't think the "SHIELD is actually Hydra" plot point is necessarily a cop-out. That Steve wants to (and does) tear down SHIELD as a whole, and not just the Hydra elements, makes the message of the movie especially clear: the surveillance state is inherently immoral, and can easily be co-opted or manipulated by bad actors (i.e. fascists). The fact that events in the real world have only borne this out makes it even more resonant, not to mention prescient.

[@mon_nobi]

I agree with this take

[@trailblazer225]

I agree to an extent, but once SHIELD is revealed as a front for Hydra, it's hard to imagine an ending where Steve says, "Okay fine, let's fight SHIELD, but instead of going nuclear let's only fight people who reveal themselves to be Hydra and allow the rest of SHIELD to continue to exist." Like I understand that that's the point, that SHIELD is a stand-in for "generic security-oriented government institution" and the message is that the surveillance state is immoral because that power either corrupts or is taken over by the evil, but it's not like Cap exactly had to make any difficult or character-defining choices at that point.

[@thebuddercweeper]

I think people also forget that the people inside SHIELD aren't mind controlled or brainwashed, these are real (fictional) people who have made the conscious decision to uphold Hydra's standards. At the end of the day, what does it matter what the organisation calls itself? This is an international intelligence and enforcement agency which is doing bad things, Cap is still going against his superiors because they're doing something he thinks is wrong.

[@marcd2726]

Came here for this. This is a flaw that we as humans have and to make it seem like it can be all blamed on one guy instead of a societal problem that we all contribute, even through inaction, by accepting the ends justifying the means, ignores a fatal flaw in us all that we must be on guard against. The line between SHIELD and Hydra isn't wide and even those actions that are seen as justified because you know someone is guilty have had very really consequences for those most vulnerable to an institution.

[@jasonpratt5126]

Hm. I think I missed the part in this rewrite where Cap somehow showed Fury that he's wrong about people? -- which was supposed to be the thematic point (not simply punching out the super-snipe-y helicarriers.)

[@wolverineminer]

Fury isn't really wrong about people, that's the point. It's supposed to be about whether he's wrong about the balance of security vs freedom or not. If he's provably wrong than that undermines the issue which is the whole issue with Hydra anyway.

[@BubblesZap]

well, their was the part with the guy at the computer who refused to launch the ships

[@ravindrabisram137]

Agreed. I really feel the movie or rewrite needs to tackle how naive Steve is at times because the attitude of "Steve is always right" doesn't really make sense to me. At least then if he saw there was a need for some sort of oversight he would actually have his beliefs challenged

[@Ryan-vi5mz]

So, in this theory, Sam Jackson is actually Palpatine, rather than Mace Windu

[@KellyJoule]

I always read Hydra as unconsciously manipulating and lying to Fury behind the scenes into making Project Insight so they could use it for evil, not to steal and use those weapons like stolen property. That being said, you kind of opened my eyes on how that wasn't really what happened here. The opening conflict and themes really are thrown out the window in the first act, huh... I never noticed that.

[@RM-cn8pw]

Probably because it isn’t true. Literally none of the themes or opening conflict are thrown out the window at all. Let alone in the first act.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

I disagree.

[@minervevalery5250]

kelly joule agreed

[@minervevalery5250]

@@RM-cn8pw it is in the third act

[@RM-cn8pw]

@@minervevalery5250 Again, no. It isn’t. Not the third or any act.

[@spitperson69]

I don't entirely disagree with the premise of this video - I really like the idea of Fury being the primary antagonist, and I do like the more straightforward message of Cap having to fight against an inherently corrupt part of the US government. What I do disagree with, however (and this is just my reading of the text), is the idea that having Shield infiltrated by Hydra separates and dilutes the power of the ultimate conflict. In my opinion, they're kind of one of the same - the fact that Shield is even capable of being manipulated into carrying out Hydra's plan means that the US government isn't infallible - it isn't holy like Cap thought it was at the beginning of the story. I think that Cap raging against the American machine and Cap raging against Hydra in this movie are essentially the same conflict. It's about finding the flaws in a system you once believed in and being forced to reconcile that contradiction. I think this is further backed up in his conflict with Bucky/Winter Soldier - that's a microcosm of the whole bigger story. Bucky, like the US government, is someone that Cap once thought of as morally infallible. But, again like Shield, the evil forces were able to corrupt someone even as incorruptible as Bucky. At the same time that Cap is forced to realize that the country he loves is capable of corruption, he's also forced to see that same corruptibility in his friend. He has to learnt that you can't take the morality of any person OR any institution for granted, and you can't trust in anyone in perpetuity. All of Cap's trust in the country he loves and the person he loves are stripped from him. Again, that's just my reading, and I'll admit it takes a bit more mental gymnastics and reading between the lines to see, and for a comic book movie maybe you don't want to rely on forcing the audience to connect a bunch of dots to get to a conclusion, so in that sense the story you proposed absolutely works better. But the reason this movie is probably my favorite in the MCU is BECAUSE it at least allowed me to connect those dots and form those conclusions myself. It not only forces Cap to deal with the fact that he can't inherently trust his institutions - it makes the audience question whether or not they should trust those institutions in the real world as well. In short, I don't think making Hydra a factor in any way cheapens the fact that for whatever reason, Shield was able to be deeply corrupted to the extent that it was willing to commit evil. I think that either way, Cap is forced to face the fact that he can't always trust the institutions or the people he once thought he could trust.

[@thebuddercweeper]

I completely agree, and I think that, taking it further, SHIELD is still doing these bad things, it's not like "oh it was just Hydra all along," it's more like "SHIELD is doing bad things because it is run by bad people" those bad people being members of Hydra just works well to tie in Bucky.

[@BlazeMakesGames]

To be fair, this theme does at least sneak its way into the film a little bit. I mean as you mention at the beginning Cap is against the project and Fury is for it well before either of them know Hydra is involved. And at the end well after they know Hydra is the main threat here, Fury tries to find a way to make the plan around the idea of salvaging the carriers while taking out Hydra and Steve rejects it in favor of blowing them up not just because of Hydra. And I think that one of the reasons it's considered so great is that it does at least touch on that kind of stuff. But yeah it would be nice if it was more of a focus of the film rather than getting mostly sidelined for "oh wait hold up on the political commentary we got nazis to punch"

[@RM-cn8pw]

But none of it was sidelined for any such thing.

[@minervevalery5250]

@@RM-cn8pw it was

[@RM-cn8pw]

@@minervevalery5250 No. It quite literally wasn’t

[@dcmarvelcomicfans9458]

@@RM-cn8pw yes they don't believe sport the theme of Freedom vs. Security they just address it that's it and then that use Hydra is actually controlling the government so the big threat of stopping the super weapon is a lazy cop out to the answer

[@RM-cn8pw]

@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 “yes they don’t believe sport the theme of Freedom vs Security” That was not a sentence. “they just address it that’s it” That’s not eve remotely it. It’s a driving theme of the film, and informs the decisions made by the characters. “and then that use Hydra is actually controlling the government” Except if you had watched the movie, Hydra isn’t shown to be controlling the government. Only to have infiltrated it. And them having infiltrated it only supports the theme. “so the big threat of stopping the super weapon is a lazy cop out to the answer” It literally isn’t, because the answer they have to it is the opposite of lazy or a cop out. They literally have to sacrifice the entirety of SHIELD altogether just to stop HYDRA. And even this doesn’t eliminate them.

[@icefrout]

Still worth it for what we got in Agents of SHIELD.

[@ThanosDestroyeryearsago]

True.

[@tonycook4629]

AoS is so underrated.

[@bartholemeowthefirst]

Agreed, CAWS messed up AOS from being AOS for two seasons.

[@pance_9912]

I freaking love this show. It really deserves to have blown up but it never did.

[@modernkennnern]

AoS is, imo, the best Marvel-related Show, and it's easily the best super hero (non-anime :s ) Show

[@jaxontee3201]

Me: *binge watching Nando V Movies videos* Nando: “Boom, you lookin for this?”

[@MR._3]

I was just re watching his justice league rewrite series when this video showed up

[@codymar4515]

"Is that the end of the story?"

[@jaxontee3201]

Cody Mar “it’s a war machine story...”

[@hunnibuttr]

I'm gonna predict that you'll have winter soldier have his mask on for longer

[@clark5317]

@Sam Iam How?

[@snakesnoteyes]

As a huge Cap fan, I absolutely agree. My favorite Cap moments are the moments in which he stands against US jingoism because he stands for the ideals the US purports to uphold. Cap isn’t nationalist. That said, I mildly disagree with Nick Fury being the big bad because the first Avengers movie sets up the secret council so well as being bad guys, so maybe Fury is the the middle boss who Cap reasons with and he comes on side.

[@Jeddostotle7]

I think that would've been especially helped, in the movie as-is or in your proposed revision of this rewrite, by Nick's advocacy for Project Insight seeming more like something initiated by those above him, something he's not really truly comfortable with but nontheless feels compelled to defend/justify it to Cap in that situation for reasons.

[@snakesnoteyes]

Jeddostotle7 I think that his previously established characterization in the MCU and his dialogue with Cap at the beginning of Winter Soldier actually do a lot of that leg work already, but yeah

[@hectorarredondo6929]

Yes. The council could be like the real world illuminati conspiracy. A council of world leaders who control the decisions of how their respected countries deal with world issues

[@Tom-hn9ey]

I understand your points in the video but the revelation of hydra gives us the beginning of the rise agents of S.H.I.E.L.D as an incredible series . so let's keep that

[@maggiewussow2278]

True! I will always be thankful to Winter Soldier for that. Also I do believe AOS did the hydra reveal better by making it personal and plausible by having a trusted team mate be hydra and it also raised the stakes for the team.

[@ethanrichmond3992]

Part of me was thinking the whole episode would be you just pulling out more and more Captain America merch for 25 minutes.

[@darrienjones8917]

I probably still would've watched it

[@Lanceawright]

I want the waffle iron!

[@spadezap9728]

Lance Wright I was going to say that too lol

[@maximogallardo1841]

Everyone does

[@vincentbatten4686]

I actually got it for Christmas one year and while it looks cool it cooks sort of unevenly.

[@Spyweb88]

I want waffles!

[@TheBigWetCoach]

I had one that’s now my brothers, we love it

[@jaceface1173]

Aww man, I liked the title "Up All Night To Get Bucky" 😅 But great video, as always.

[@vanlooney2012]

1:35 Imagine calling Civil War “not an avengers movie”

[@emiliodelbozo3155]

its pretty much an avengers movie, marvel just doesnt call it that

[@princessleia2187]

Yeah i said it's more like A Iron Man/Captain America Movie with the avengers as background characters

[@JcFerggy]

I would really be interested in your thoughts on Agents of Shield. With it ending in 2 weeks and subsequently added to Disney+, it would be the correct timing.

[@RedJax69]

I like the reveal because it asks the question of when security becomes fascism. Hydra was doing the same thing as Fury, so what is the difference? If Peirce had waited a few years, he would have had control, with Fury having had set up everything.

[@scotscovenanter]

Respectfully, I can't go with this. Hydra's presence makes sense, and actually helps The First Avenger retroactively. Hydra's then threats about defeating them (the old "cut off one head..." speech) aren't empty. It's got weight with them being around the whole time and adds another level of depth to SHIELD as a whole. This is thoroughly explored in Agents of SHIELD, which, the episode that aired the week right after Winter Soldier's opening weekend, I believe was the HEIGHT of the MCU collectively (not including the Infinity Saga's end). The feeling of hype as a fan was escalated, and suddenly AoS naysayers stopped complaining and the show added backstory that influenced how you perceived Age of Ultron, Civil War, and finally culminates with the Hive arc.

[@android19willpwn]

the thing is, having Cap go rogue that early means he's effectively on the run from then on, and not only does that mean Age of Ultron has a harder time happening, but Civil War has a *much* harder time happening. And as things are now, we get a three-movie arc where Cap goes from trusting the government, to doubting the government, to turning against the government. We have him take a hard stand against the legitimate authorities that he's willing to fight for in movie WS, there isn't really anywhere left for him to go in CW.

[@byronsenior6499]

I really respect you trying to keep their vocal cues in check with your impressions.

[@snazzy-hood9988]

Captain America waffle Iron,for when you need the taste of freedom with your breakfast.

[@tailedgates9]

Gotta love that taste of freedom. :3

[@Blueeyesthewarrior]

I agree that the reason introduced Hydra is because it’s too hard of a question for the audience. It’s too real, Project Insight is too close to our real world Patriot Act. That’s why they decided to drop it.

[@SanjuroSeaCow]

Unfortunately, so long as the department of defense is so entwined with Marvel, I don't think you're going to see Captain America fighting an agency that's not artificially, convolutedly corrupted from some outside force.

[@RM-cn8pw]

There was nothing artificial or convoluted about it though.

[@RM-cn8pw]

Snehil Shrey I’m not a fanboy for calling out something that isn’t true

[@RM-cn8pw]

Snehil Shrey But this ISN’T “indeed true.” Or true at all.

[@minervevalery5250]

@@RM-cn8pw prove it

[@runningwithscissors8612]

Great change, but there’s one huge issue if HYDRA isn’t the bad guy ...We wouldn’t get the Hail Hydra moment in Endgame

[@Skyewardbound]

That, and the fact that Hydra being revealed is a massive turning point in Agents of SHIELD S1

[@dcmarvelcomicfans9458]

@@Skyewardbound well Marvel was originally going to get rid of Hydra in Winter Soldier but Joss Whedon thought they wanted an agent of shield series when Marvel didn't so Hydra taking over shield in the TV show does not connect with the MCU at all

[@buffnipz]

Who cares? its just a throwaway moment and kinda falls apart when you think about it

[@lithantushelo7932]

@@buffnipz THANK YOU. I'ts only cool because of the twist from the comics.... I'm not hard pressed with not having it.

[@codecatx5]

Cap doesn’t have the power to get in the way of project “insight”. That initial mission was Fury being worried which is why he sent Widow to get the data off the Lameria Star. Fury had reservations about Insight from the beginning. Your change doesn’t work for this movie.

[@christianopper8095]

I feel like this would’ve taken out a lot of urgency in the finale. In the original it’s a ticking clock until hydra murders a bunch of people. In this version it just seems like the ticking clock is for when the hellicariers are in the air, from which there’s probably a lot more time to stop it

[@natesavage3576]

The NANDO Problem - Marvel: KZbin Videos

[@francisjomergallardo4593]

I love Nando's rewrites, but if there was one small change to his Spiderman Civil War rewrite video it would be

[@natesavage3576]

@@francisjomergallardo4593 What a great change, I could have never thought of that. *claps*

[@Liv24_Productions]

i love this concept but then a lot of agents of SHIELD season 1 episode 17 would have to be changed completely

[@maggiewussow2278]

And honestly it changed AOS for the better. Also, AOS did the hydra reveal better by making it personal, plausible, and raises the stakes

[@PineappleTheft]

I don't think they''d necessarily have to change too much in AoS S1, you could theoretically keep everything the same and just change HYDRA to a rouge faction inside SHIELD

[@srstriker6420]

olly_b2006 yeah because I thought that agents of shield should be more Dog the Bounty Hunter

[@Liv24_Productions]

Ben Green but then seasons 2 and 3 would be very very different as their story arcs are heavily influenced by hydra

[@srstriker6420]

olly_b2006 and don’t forget season 4, 5 and now 7

[@sirfriendzone1228]

"Nazis are bad and we apparently need to be constantly reminded of that."

[@bartholemeowthefirst]

Bingo, got it in one.

[@Carabas72]

Well... based on the last couple of years wort hof political news, yes, apparently we really do need to be constantly reminded that nazis are bad, and clearly we have been doing it way too subtle in the past.

[@sylvioze6729]

Yes sir, should be reminded all the time

[@ishaanbrar4302]

This aged well

[@Starcat5]

@@ishaanbrar4302 Like a fine wine, or a sharp cheddar.

[@Laboccadelfuoco]

I remember feeling disappointed when hydra reveal happened when I first saw the winter soldier. I thought it was lazy bringing back an old enemy and what you brought up was also there. I just couldn’t articulate it. Over time and everyone spouting their love for this movie caused me to grow to love it and forget about my hang ups. Thanks for this video.

[@ddmirolli]

Dude, I've been saying this for years and you just said it in 25 min more eloquently than I ever could. Dangerous Freedom > Safe Slavery

[@VaderTyrannus]

But you missed the part where Fury and Cap argued about salvaging the helicarriers.

[@tristanneal9552]

That collection went from surprising to funny to concerning to sad to frighteningly obsessive in like a minute :D

[@Hexamath]

"Unfortunately..." *Proceeds to flex on his viewers with his Captain America merch*

[@JamesLawner]

I actually liked the whole HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD thing, but I feel like HYDRA could still be a threat in the MCU, because they just dipped after this movie and Age of Ultron. Also, Agents of SHIELD’s tie-in eps for this was amazing!

[@AM-kr1pc]

Fury as the secret antagonist would’ve been amazing.

[@veryneatguy-838]

Nando could live off his captain america merch for a year

[@BetterCallStan]

I would have loved it if Coulson had given Tony the pep talk in Ultron as it could have tied in AOS.

[@markdoherty6610]

I really like this but then it would tremendously change AOS and I'm not sure how well it would go

[@platypus6810]

Nando: unfortunately, all I had was... Me: oh that’s a shame Also me 1 minute later: wait. How is he still going

[@jacobberry6267]

i think if pierce was still in the movie as a red herring villain that would be cool he could maybe not seem convinced by project insight and then he comes in on the helicopter inspired by caps speech and decides against fury

[@bulldogsoccer222]

Rian Johnson is right about Rey's parents!

[@KarlMalowned32]

Hmmm, interesting idea. I guess the change I would make instead is Alexander Pierce is in charge of Project Insight. I think Cap and Fury should be on the same side (Both Idealists who believe in the Avengers), while Pierce believes humans can’t be trusted with their own freedom...which is why he designed and is leading this project. Gives Pierce more agency.

[@srstriker6420]

KarlMalowned32 or he should have been Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker

[@nodeberiaestaraqui93]

I agree, for Pierce being the main antagonist, he had wayy to little time to show him in more depth or nuance

[@srstriker6420]

No debería estar aquí yeah because what was his motivation

[@ViccVegaa023]

My issue with this is I think that this wasn't so much of an error as it was a deliberate choice. Lord knows the Captain America comics weren't ever shy about using SHIELD or the US Government itself as an antagonist when they wanted to. I assume everyone involved considered it and just thought better of it. Pierce would have even allowed you to have an antagonist SHIELD without permanantly heel turning Nick Fury and they still didn't go there. I think your instinct that the movie audience wanted no part of that kind of reveal or it's implications (is CA:WS a message movie? Is it an allegory of some kind?) is correct and the creators kinda knew that going in.

[@unik124]

Would you ever considering doing a rewrite for the end of Game of Thrones? I feel like if anyone could make it right you could!

[@AxeloftheKey]

Prediction: You're making Zemo in Civil War Hydra. XD

[@srstriker6420]

Alex Dunn yeah and hopefully the purple mask

[@verylostdoommarauder]

14:48 But isn't that kind of true? Yes, terrifying tentacle monster from space disguised as a cat, but still not a particularly traumatic betrayal.

[@markmazza5968]

Fury losing his faith in the Avengers undermines the end of The Avengers when Fury was talking to the world security council about not putting more protective measures in place after The Avengers separated at the end of the movie. Fury trusted that the Avengers would return and deal with necessary issues. Re-writing it to this, makes it seem that he has done an entire 180 for no apparent reason because there has not been a conflict that the Avengers have not been able to handle.

[@markmazza5968]

If this plot did happen the way you write it, you would complain about how it breaks continuity from The Avengers.

[@Thisguy38]

The one thing that doesn’t sit with me is I don’t see Natasha and Maria turning on Fury.

[@StarryEyed0590]

Yeah, Maria Hill, at least in the MCU is utterly and completely loyal to Fury. Absolutely no way she sides with Cap against him.

[@truekiropfan8329]

@@StarryEyed0590 That's putting it mildly. To put it in Psych terms, she's Juliet O'Hara to Fury's Carlton Lassiter. Fury basically treats her like a partner almost. And she seems to think of Nick Fury similarly.

[@NeiyonSpyder]

Nobody: AOS fans when Nando changes a movie deeply related to AOS: Um, actually no Nando, cuz that'd ruin my favorite show and we can't have that. (Its me, I'm AOS fans)

[@Volvagia1927]

I do love Agents of SHIELD, but, well, ask what would SHIELD being in tact at the end of this change in terms of plot? There's the end of S1. And maybe the first half of S2 could do some more done in ones. But the entire rest of the show, back half of S2 onward? Not really any major changes.

[@msmarch33192]

@@Volvagia1927 You would also lose season 3, the framework in season 4 and the back half of season five. So it wold heavily mess with the entire show.

[@Volvagia1927]

​@@msmarch33192 I didn't say no changes, just not any major ones. The explanation for ATCU? That'd change. Hive's final form? That'd probably be the same, but how it gets there might have changed. What would go on in the framework? That'd change. Talbot's reason for being against the agents in S5? That'd change. But the broad strokes of the plot? Not really.

[@msmarch33192]

@@Volvagia1927 Getting rid of HYDRA to keep the very theme that HYDRA has served in the comics for 80 years seems really extra. Alot of noncomic fans seem to want to erase the organizations and villians that have been built up ad crafted to represent the themes they want covered in the stories for "realism". The plan of taking HYDRA out of the story just to do what HYDRA is for threw Fury is wasteing two characters when you can keep both is kinda dumb. The MCU has already handcuffed themseves by useing AIM in Ironman 3 (and wasteing AIM by the way), in exactly the way he proposed useing HYDRA in Winter Soldier.

[@NeiyonSpyder]

@@Volvagia1927 Fury being the antagonist means he doesn't save Fitz-Simmons or gives Coulson the toolbox to rebuild Shield. That directly affects the back half of season 1 (obviously), the real shield arc of season 2 as well as Dr. Whitehall being around at all which changes Daisy's story since he affects her family greatly, it changes season 3 with Hydra still needing to be taken out and, ya know, Hive, and it affects season 4 since its a reverse of season 1 with Hydra winning in the framework, which is the strongest arc of season 4, and it affects season 7, which has ties to all of the past season. Basically, making Hydra not exist changes the entire series.

[@forzaflash]

The music on this video is surprisingly on point. I appreciate that. Amazing changes as always Nando! Great vid

[@unclehobby6296]

Nando back in form, I love it.

[@lukewright2979]

I like the idea but I'm not sure I agree that HYDRA being the villain simplifies the moral conflict of the film. The Winter Soldier is a stepping stone in Cap's journey towards a healthy scepticism of authority. For me, HYDRA as the villain makes the focus less about fear vs freedom and more about the susceptibility of any power structures to corruption which is just as valid a conflict

[@mikeandrews3361]

This change kills the tension because the there is no ticking clock because it is hard to believ Fury would use the superweapon. He might not even have the incentive that it actually work (he came of age during the cold war, so his goal might be deterrent). Without the feeling that the moment the satellites connect, millions die, the ending is limp.

[@thebuddercweeper]

Agreed, this rewrite falls flat fairly often in my opinion.

[@ShinAkuma204]

I think you misinterpret the Project Insight conflict. That conflict was not meant for Cap, it was meant for *Fury*. It changes how Fury sees the actions of Shield leading up to Insight. Steve simply maintains his position with a different enemy.

[@AlexanderKahrs]

I think the movie was still great for what it was, but I really like this alternative. Funny thing is, either route could've translated to Agents of SHIELD in an interesting way (I.E. Coulson and his group dealing with overbearing SHIELD bureaucrats instead of covert Hydra agents)

[@technocore1591]

You know, you could make the argument that Fury arguing for compartmentalization and not trusting anyone, but then showing Cap the Insight Helicarriers, he was setting up Cap to take them out. Because he suspected the rot inside of Shield he had to play the part of the advocate of Project Insight, but despite his own protestations and the arguments he used, he clearly pointed Cap like a gun at Project Insight and pulled the trigger.

[@thebuddercweeper]

I agree. While this is nothing more than headcanon, it does make sense and align with the reason he sent Natasha on a separate mission to begin with - he suspected something was off about Insight from the very beginning of the film.

[@IronyNinja]

"Any hero would do the same! After all, they're Nazis!" -Sweats in American

[@darrienjones8917]

Yeah when he said that I was just like...."Uh are you sure about that?"

[@meduimrareberries5888]

Any HERO would. But not all Americans are heroes, unfortunately.

[@alinac5512]

@@meduimrareberries5888 you took the words out of my mouth. Id argue that on the world stage the us is rather a villain at the moment.

[@t.h.mcelroy6597]

I was introduced to your content only a few days ago, but I have yet to watch one of your videos that I haven't thoroughly enjoyed. Keep at it, brother 💛

[@mcarpen89]

"Paperclipped" I see what you did there

[@JGAcquiesceNZ]

Nando, hear me out: Nick Fury is actually written as part of hydra, this whole time, in all the movies.

[@emiliodelbozo3155]

i would like a video providing some possible evidence, still would be a cool idea

[@cisalzlman]

1. Winter Soilder is still great 2. this version is better and more complex 3. the big issue is Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D needs to have S.H.I.E.L.D dismanteled maybe Cap. gives his big spheech to America instead of S.H.I.E.L.D forces the organization to go underground for a while

[@koji6745]

Oh go off Nando! Just the video I needed rn ❤️✨

[@masquerader101]

You KILLED this! 💪 you know these characters so well and how to subvert our expectations. Keep up the stellar work

[@anitrahooper5031]

While I can appreciate the points you made, I have a few thoughts as to why it actually works better as is than you may think for the times we live in (beyond just what works for cap). 1 a strong black character who is allowed to be a complex character, while not inherently bad is important to see. Meaning making Fury the bad guy isn't actually as engaging for me, it feels lazy. 2. Since we live in a world where there are many who have ideas that align with those of the mazi regime that we believed we had defeated at the end of WWII, Hydra being inside SHIELD is not that far off from reality. For me, Winter Soldier is the warning many needed. Current events will always flavor the content. All that said, I really did enjoy this journey in exploring a different way of constructing the movie.

[@simonegreco1958]

I mean you're not wrong about freedom/security, but this is just making TWS more similar to CW than it already is, also it kinda repeats the conflict of the argument scene from The Avengers

[@ponodude101]

I like how he showed off all his cool Captain America merch only to have his face shown in the beginning and end. Respect.

[@Wyeuca]

I gotta tell you Nando. I follow a lot of great and entertaining channels, but yours is definitely one of the most creative and insightful ones of the lot. This is a great video and a great set of observations. 👍

[@thegamer74717]

Instead of "there's some problems the avengers just cant solve" I would have wrote "sometimes the world doesn't need avenging, it needs protection" that clearly shows that nick is set in his ways and that project insight HAS to be destroyed (giving the movie its whole action packed third act) and it also gives a strong connection to Tony's and Caps confrontation in civil war when the sokovia accords get introduced.

[@xrphoenix7194]

"Heres how Captain America: The Winter Soldier should have been" **proceeds to describe the plot of Captain America: Civil War with Fury instead of Iron Man**

[@srstriker6420]

XR-Phoenix yeah and Maria Hill because she was a major in civil war comics

[@xrphoenix7194]

@@srstriker6420 sure, but I think the movie parallels are more obvious and on topic

[@srstriker6420]

XR-Phoenix yeah so?

[@xrphoenix7194]

@@srstriker6420 just saying

[@srstriker6420]

XR-Phoenix okay then

[@boldlybekah2938]

“Winks under eye patch” 😂

[@pgplaysvidya]

those pieces of paper really should be framed or at least put into a more durable plastic sheath. I'm terrified of it getting dog eared

[@M2Dv1]

"give this thought experiment a chance" Another Nando tell that hes reaching the bottom of the barrel for ideas and its best to not waste your time watching this video.

[@loganbigmo]

Wow. _Captain America: The Winter Soldier_ to me is not only my favorite MCU film but the best one. But your idea, of it being S.H.I.E.L.D. and Nick Fury, being the perfect foil to Cap... would've made the movie better in some ways. To me the worst movie of the MCU is _Ant-Man & the Wasp_ so they definitely should have you writing the third one. Do Ant-Man justice!

[@driveasandwich6734]

9:08 "That's a reasonable extension of his decision to create Ultron, and eventually eat it."

[@feanor411]

I don't agree that TWS would have had more impact if Hydra wasn't controlling SHIELD. If that were the case, we'd have a well structured, exciting story, true. But, the Hydra storyline has a larger role, it has an effect on a lot of things moving forward. It also reveals a huge change in Steve's perspective. Going into the movie, Steve is the epitome of a patriot. He's still a soldier, working for SHIELD, honoring the same values he always have. During the course of the movie Steve finds out SHIELD has been infiltrated by Hydra. He does what a patriot would, he fights them & stops their nefarious plan. He does something that really interests me. He announces to the control room that SHIELD is actually Hydra, which he didn't really need to do. It would have been more efficient if he just stopped the button being pushed, but he gives the information to everybody in the room. This is the essence of Captain America. He knows that Hydra grew in the dark, and the only way to kick them out forever is to expose them to the light. Later on he says "Shield, Hydra...it all goes." At the beginning of the movie he seems put out that Natasha is dumping all of SHIELD's secrets on the net, but in the end he seems to come around. He realizes that the problem wasn't just a few bad guys who pulled off an evil plan. The problem was institutional; the compartmentalization Fury talks about is exactly what allowed Hydra to grow undetected. Instead of just blindly following orders, Steve recognizes that the institution itself is the problem, and following orders would be the wrong thing to do.

[@alfonsoromero659]

I never thought this movie had some issue, but as always you show a movie is never too perfect for the Nando treatment :)

[@nothisispatrick6528]

I’ve got to be honest I really don’t like this new plot it seems to much like soap Opera. And I don’t really get why fury would have himself assassinated

[@nodeberiaestaraqui93]

If you ever read the comics, Nick Fury's schtick is all about him playing 5d chess with people and the big powers

[@Ben10man2]

Why do I always love your changes so much

[@DaryllJosephHUgpo]

I just rewatched the Sharon Carter vid, and I'm so amazed at how much this channel has progressed, congrats man. Also, as always, you have a point.

[@Crick1952]

This also kind of messes up your Ant-Man 3 pitch (still my favorite video from you)

[@trugguff9632]

Nando looks like he cries whenever he finds the smallest imaccuracies in movies

[@H.P._Lovecrafts_Beloved_Cat]

I’m dying over this “winks under eye patch” thing😂

[@TheStephenStephen]

It does feel like the Hydra and Bucky reveal was only added to try and tie the movie into the first one despite it being completely different times

[@justinmango2000]

I like most of your ideas but I dont think this works. First, I feel that if hydra isnt behind it, there wouldn't be enough pressure to actually make Steve take down the helicarriers. At the start when hes shown them he doesn't like the idea at all, but it's not like hes now planning to attack Nick Fury and shut down shield just cause they have a philosophical disagreement on how to protect the world. Also, while I like fury being on opposite side of the spectrum on project insight, if hes also controlling bucky it quickly goes from him being an understandable antagonist to being pretty evil, which is just too much of a 180 for me based on how hes portrayed in previous films. I think he serves his role in the actual movie much better when he grudgingly is forced to agree with cap after all the events in the movie that validate Steve's argument. Also, I like how he was used to highlight captain America's leadership when he falls in like with his plan, which is significant as fury is the one who originally assembled the avengers in the first place

[@thebuddercweeper]

Agreed completely, not to mention the fact that Hydra is a large part of the MCU going forward from this film, and removing it from Winter Soldier derails a lot of what comes next.

[@AJFStudios]

I feel like you’re just pitching Civil War. This progression of Cap’s trust in the Governor is mean to evolve in each move. FA: loves America hates Germans. Black and white. WS: doesn’t love America the same way and while still gets an easy villain looses trust in America. Lastly CW shows the payoff of that where he directly goes against the government, no Nazis or cyborg Bucky to justify it just his ideals and experience

[@michaelboyd2404]

💯HARD AGREE!!! Cap's arc is about examining the selflessness of soldiering. In FA he's 100% In Avengers he's 75/25 In WS he's 50/50 In Ultron he's 25/75 In CW he end's up at 0%

[@Saimeren]

I'm living for that dorky Cap flex in the beginning. I love it when people take pride in their fandom!

[@leyenda6149]

I struggled to understand all the points in the video until Nando started talking about Fury as the antagonist. Points seemed very well explained but I just was not tracking