Regrets of an Ex-Evangelical Pentecostal Pastor (ft. Timmy Gibson)

[@timmygibsonkc]

Thank you so much! What a great time, always a joy!😊

[@greendragon4058]

It was a great time thanks for coming on

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I feel like we could go on for hours! Thanks for joining us again!

[@TheNurseWhoLovedMe89]

@@CultstoConsciousnessEncore! Encore! 😁🙌✨💖✨

[@TheNurseWhoLovedMe89]

Timmy, your laugh is infectious! Thank you for being you! 🙌✨💖

[@sarahissersohn5495]

@@CultstoConsciousnessdon’t threaten us all with a good time! We would love more conversations between you two. Great energy- great honesty; love this 💜⚡️

[@allthemomthings9897]

I mean he HIT THE NAIL on the head. I’ve looked for this type of content on KZbin over the last 2 years. I’m excited to see one of my favorite channels discuss this topic. Former Pastor’s Wife for 16 years. 👋

[@kavitadeva]

@@allthemomthings9897 AGREE 💯

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@allthemomthings9897 OMG! So yes, you know exactly what’s up! I’ve not had a chance to get through all the comments, but there have been comments from people who clearly don’t know what it’s like to be a pastor and or the spouse of a pastor. As a pastor you genuinely do want what you think is best for your church and for those who attend. Clearly, this is based upon what we think we know to be the truth at the time. It’s taking me many years to come to terms with having a false belief system that I perpetuated and promoted. I thought it was THE TRUTH, until I realized it wasn’t. Life is such a journey!

[@NekolatheDruid]

I'm really glad that you addressed hesitation bringing him on. It was very healing to hear a former pastor acknowledge that they were wrong.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@NekolatheDruid I so appreciate that!

[@MelboCreations]

I'm glad someone from the Assemblies of God made it here. I was raised in the church too-my father was a minister since I was five Until I was 19 attended North Central Bible College and even spent some time at Evangel college in Springfield, Missouri. Now, I consider myself agnostic, and my family has distanced themselves from me because of our differing spiritual views. It frustrates me when they say, "I'll be praying for you" It feels dismissive and insincere, like they're saying, "F you." we are so opposite and politics and spirituality. It is wonderful to finally hear somebody is my age. I am 55 that went through similar movies, no dancing etc.

[@sharileesprowls6215]

I was raised in the church as well. When they say, "I'll pray for you," they're purposely insinuating that your beliefs are incorrect and you're going to end up in hell. I've actually told people no thank you I don't know who you're praying to and I question your sincerity. It's as if they're looking down their spiritual noses at you. I'm glad we both got away from them.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@MelboCreations Thank you so much! Sounds like you know exactly what I was talking about! Looking back it’s just nutty, but at the time it seemed so normal, and right “godly” ya know?! Wild stuff indeed.

[@kansashighlights624]

I'm sorry you had that experience. For me, whenever I say I am praying for someone. It means that they have told me that they're dealing with an illness. Or something and I tell them I will pray that they will have a speedy recovery, etc. But if somebody has a different belief system, I don't tell them that. I pray for them after I go home for example. But I don't tell them. I'm praying for them if I think they're headed down a destructive road. It seems as if a lot of people have had bad or strange experiences with people, that have caused them to fall away. But I always wonder what their personal experience with God Himself is.

[@sharileesprowls6215]

@@kansashighlights624 You're pushing it. Would you want someone to pray to Vishnu or Allah or Gaia for you without your expressed consent?

[@sarahevans1580]

​@sharileesprowls6215 ugh I know what you mean....but for me those words sound completely patronizing. Telling certain people how much I despise Christianity (having lived it personally growing up),the smug superiority of them continuing to pray for my soul is deeply offensive.

[@Kirbygal55]

I find this conversation so interesting and can relate in so many ways. I was involved in a Pentecostal church for many years. I no longer attend church but still believe in Jesus and the price he paid for mankind. I can say so much about my journey as a born again Christian. Good and bad, but I don't think I can condense my experiences here. All I know, is that Jesus is still very real to me and I am amazed and surprised at his goodness towards me even though I no longer go to church. Who would have guessed eh.

[@thankubelle]

timmy is very charismatic and an easy person to listen to! i can see how he was a pastor! he has a natural gift of leadership and i appreciate how he is using that gift now. be well, timmy!

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@thankubelle Thank you!

[@jeffolson7369]

some leader all his followers will buy into nihilism

[@blessedhitchhiker]

Oh my gosh...Shelise asking the question about smacking someone in the forehead , and hoping they fall back. So bang on. i was in one of these sevices and went up for "healing". The guy smacked me in the forehead and I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. But I thought I better lay back cuz that's my part in this charade. I lay down and kept thinking the whole while, can I get up now? It was ridiculous to me, but it was a distraction from all the chaos in my life at the time. Great interview!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😂 thanks for sharing!

[@reflexxuns767]

Lol! I did the same thing! Ha! I've been out of the church for twenty years, and I won't go back. Life has been so much better!

[@mailill]

Lol, I remember a pentecostal pastor in the "healing business" pushing my forehead really hard, and me pushing stubbornly back, as I was a Catholic at the time, so I was unfamiliar with the expectations

[@helenadoran9834]

I always felt that there was something wrong with me because no matter how "encouraging" a shove I got from the preacher, my legs always stayed rock solid! Just thought I wasn't spiritual enough 😂

[@sonyagraske376]

​@@maililldid you stand your ground? 😂 I wish I could've seen that. 🎉

[@easybreezy4559]

I know several pastors and they have struggled so much. I am so glad that Timmy is willing to talk and admit things. love this!!!

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@easybreezy4559 Thank you!

[@ellyne3863]

Watching this channel, it's really making me think about how strong we naturally as humans have a desire to belong to something, and have structure. How easily we want to 'fall in line' with whatever or whoever puts structure or a group out there, whether it's a church, or in my life experience, a single person who wants all the control and power, and creates a family group where one person is in charge and calls all the shots and everyone else follows their direction without question. Timmy mentioning how dark and difficult it was when he left the church, is also my experience leaving my former 'group' that I knew did not have a healthy mindset. And as unhealthy as that group was, how lonely and isolating it feels to leave. I find it interesting that maybe some people are happier simply not thinking for themselves but simply following the leader and falling in line. It really does seem like that's human nature.

[@mailill]

I took acting classes as a child. We learned something very similar to speaking in tongues, just without any spiritual/religious explanation. We even had long speeches and debates in our personal spontaneously made-up languages. I think none of us would ever be able to participate in a meeting where people speak in tongues without assuming it was the same thing as we had learned in acting class. (Edit: typo)

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@mailill Very interesting! I would love that. I still love listening to music without words and I just make up my own words! We actually did this in Bible college, it was called singing in the spirit! 🤦🏼‍♂️😂

[@SandnSea23]

I've had the literal opposite experience of this. I'm 61. Grew up Baptist. Always went to either a Baptist, Presbyterian or Non-denom church. In my quiet time in scripture and prayer I've absolutely "heard" God on my spirit. I've prayed healing over myself in Jesus' name and received 2 undeniable healings -- as radical as watching a shingles rash slowly disappear. Just 3 days ago, all alone, reading the Word, a supernatural feeling overcame me and I just started speaking in tongues. Unbelievable! There are many years of following Christ involved here and countless experiences left out that would need a book to detail. There are lots of cults, but authentic love for Jesus and obedience to Him alone (not a pastor or anyone else) is freeing.

[@kansashighlights624]

Beautiful comment I love it!

[@wendychavez5348]

You are quite perceptive, @dianedahlhleimer4414! I am Catholic, went to junior high & high school at a Methodist school, married a Muslim, and currently practice none of it. There is no one way to experience that connection --nor can anyone say that anyone else is doing it wrong! That is between the individual and God, or however that person calls that entity.

[@Abbasgirl312]

Amen sister!

[@donnavickery9623]

Timmy, whether you realize it or not - you helped more people than you realize. Your intentions were good. This makes an enormous difference in everything you do in life.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@donnavickery9623 Well I appreciate that! I know at the time I meant well. It was all I knew.

[@RavenMelonai]

Millions of people are good without a god. I'm glad more are waking up and finding better ways to engage with the world.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@RavenMelonai Absolutely!

[@halfatheory]

i was always taught "speaking in tongues" was speaking in a language that literally everyone could understand, not a language no one understands. because God gave the gift of tongues to the disciples to go teach and everyone was tripping that they understood. at least that was my understanding.

[@kkietzerow]

Thank you so much for having Timmy on. It spoke to me because I was raised fundamentalist Baptist. I could relate to much what he was saying. Your channel has helped me so much over this last year as I have left that life behind. I left the church 15 years ago, but it was only in the last year that I really started to deconstruct. Keep up having the great guests on.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing that!❤️

[@reflexxuns767]

I left the pentecostal church over twenty years ago. Personally, I never stopped believing in God, but not as a divine man sitting on a throne. I believe in God as the creative force of our universe, but that's just me. I believe that we are here to experience and learn. Lol! Everything he has said about the church is so accurate! 😂

[@מאירבןלזר]

You are to be commended for the hard work of bringing people to the podcast

[@xochitlkitty]

The way you said this Shaliese, “hey Hod gave us doctors. Let’s look into that before assuming it’s demon.” Made me laugh.

[@lizahernandez950]

I was able to catch the last 20 minutes or so of the live broadcast but it was great. I’m glad Timmy was able to come back and share more. It was validating and encouraging for me to hear more from him. Thank you Shelise and Timmy for this.

[@cc-hk5ih]

Definitely could see the charisma and why Tim had a following. !!! Certainly, physical appearance gives off the Jesus vibe!! I do remember praying when my sibling in her prime got cancer, and after she died, I realised that a little bit of my blind faith died with her. After that, I found my own way with my own religion, and as you say, I totally have respect for those who believe strongly in whatever they need to. My parents got great comfort from their faith to the end but never forced it on me. We had great dialogue and just enjoyed our time together. Life needs to be lived now. There is too much emphasis on what may happen when.... means we may lose out on precious time with others. Being kind, not doing harm to anyone enjoying life is the way to go! Ps. Learning about other religions and listening to your channel has been a great educator. CC

[@daniellepyle5844]

Timmy, walking down a new path, enjoying the beauty of just life for what it is, may be hard but beautiful. So glad you were able to see the path, and step onto it. Thanks for sharing.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@daniellepyle5844 Thank you for listening!

[@iw9338]

Deconstructing at 62, it's difficult. Thanks for sharing your story 😅

[@laurenl720]

Another great interview! Glad I caught this live!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks for listening

[@PatriciaTennery]

Tim is safe with me and plenty of others. I always hoped he would finally think it through. That makes you smart. No embarrassment. You have done well. I have enjoyed hearing about your open relationship with your wife. Sending love. My husband and I found truth too. Love❤

[@mailill]

Open relationship? That's interesting. While I don't think it is inherently wrong to not want monogamy (if everybody involved are truly on the same page), I've really never seen open relationships work well over time for _all_ involved parties. Usually one or two of the involved get to have their cake and eat it too, and the rest feel increasingly breadcrumbed (or have to swallow a herd of huge unsavoury camels), but somehow believe they are not allowed to stand up for themselves.

[@helenr4300]

When was that mentioned? I heard nothing, and skimmed the transcript too

[@VectorRabbit]

@@mailill It takes good, honest communication for sure. I wouldn't be able to do it, but I have friends who do and find it fun and fulfilling :)

[@danielx555]

I quit going to church and over the years stopped believing in any of the stuff. But I still pray when I'm upset, and I pray when people are sick or for positivity. I don't think anyone is listening to me, but the action of prayer is very natural.

[@elizabethwarman9028]

Hi, thank you for such a great conversation.

[@allthemomthings9897]

So excited for another video!

[@Suprachiasmatic]

As an ex-evangelical who was a former member of a charismatic church, I've found your conversations with Timmy profoundly healing. Its just nice to know that there's a chance that the pastor who used to hurt my heart on a regular basis may someday see the error of his ways and make changes in his life.

[@tamarf4596]

Another great interview. Shelise, I love how you thought about keeping the channel a safe space for cult survivors/ex-cult members and really chose the perfect person to talk about being a cult leader. It's clear that he's done so much work on himself and that the deconstruction was not an easy process, and that he's being as real and honest about his process that he possibly can, that I can't see how anybody would be offended or feel unsafe to share. It's also a credit to you, Shelise, and your wonderful sensitivity and interviewing skills. As a social worker, who used to volunteer in an organization helping ex-ultra-orthodox Jewish youthes to integrate into general society (in Israel), I find your channel fascinating. (Also, I keep wishing you would do more interviews with ex-Haredi Jews, because those are the cults I know best 😄)

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@tamarf4596 thank you so much!

[@tamarf4596]

@@timmygibsonkc thank you!

[@tia-flame]

What an interesting perspective. Thanks for another great interview.

[@Theendofeverything7036]

I really enjoyed seeing Timmy again and appreciate his honesty. Excellent interview!!

[@sunshineinarizona1726]

He is nice looking. His eyes and smile make you want to trust him. I subscribed to his channel. Although I'm not religious, I study different religions because it's interesting. Love this channel. 🌻

[@greendragon4058]

I came across a music channel I love listening to music and they were really good come to find out that they were Christian it didn't change my mind on the music I thought it was very good and some lady questioned my Christianity and I said I am not Christian I am a shaman and she said well if you pray hard enough and I said thank you but I've been down there I was born in a cult I am no longer Christian but I respect your belief and thank you very much and I hope you have a blessed day and she was so amazed I didn't give her a bad time or didn't say a snarky comment to her it was so weird

[@Tokeokarma123]

​@@greendragon4058some people are really mean to Christians today. Some people can handle it. Some can't.

[@serendipity1237]

@@greendragon4058. Ok, but what’s the channel. 😛

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@sunshineinarizona1726 Thank you! ☺️

[@StaceyMifsud]

I was soo excited to see that Timmy reached out, I commented on his 7M video saying he should reach out to you and did a happy dance when the video popped up. I live in Australia but went to churches with the exact same teachings that Timmy preached. These have been an amazing couple of episodes and I look forward to further videos and collaborations 😊

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@StaceyMifsud Thank you for the recommendation!

[@katwitanruna]

Break the silence. Break the cycle.

[@kathytillotson4238]

This conversation is so helpful to me. I have been deconstructing fundamentalism since 2012 when my world turned upside. My sister is still 💯 dedicated to Assembly of God church and lives it to her core in the all the good ways. Breaks my heart. She loves God so much and believes it all. These conversations are so so very important for so many different reasons. Love you guys!!!

[@lonia.5283]

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

[@lonia.5283]

Have you never felt God's love embracing you? Have you never felt the forces of darkness attacking you? And sometimes God lets things happen so you would draw near to him. You are deceived. I am so so sorry. May God give you ears to hear and eyes to see, for in Jesus Christ's Name, I ask and pray. Amen ❤

[@madhattie2952]

@@lonia.5283 Why are you doing his? There is a person deconstructing from a fundamentalist church. You don't know then, don't know what they have gone through and what made them realize that the teachings they grew up with didn't work for them anymore. And the only thing you can do is to shame, juge and demonize their decision? I normaly don't juge anyone but i'm really tempted to make an exemption for you. Love and peace and healing. Greetings from Austria

[@lonia.5283]

@madhattie2952 because I know, that I know, that Jesus Christ is real, and I don't want anyone to go to hell because they didn't believe in the only one that can save you from hell. This man is reinforcing a message that is not true, regardless of what he faced in his life. I am afraid that he will pull away people from Jesus Christ.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@kathytillotson4238 thank you!

[@brendabatt6874]

If you have food, thank a farmer

[@OspreyFlyer]

I spent part of my childhood in the Word of Faith movement. I believe Timmy is talking about Rhema Bible College founded by Kenneth Hagin. As a child I went to Hagin's weekly teachings in downtown Tulsa. This was before Rhema. It was a very detailed worldview with good and evil forces and principles to follow. I left the Charismatic and Pentecostal movements as a teenager.

[@maegannorris]

My family went to a retreat type healing camp thing (I really dont know what to call it) where I was "healed" of an anxiety diagnosis as a teenager. Which resulted in me not getting proper treatment, medication or therapy for 15 years. The teachings were from a book that listed every diagnosis you could have and what sin was attached to it. I wish I could remember the name! Wild stuff.

[@eevans02]

I wanted to make this live, but ended up missing it. Timmy hearing your POV and how you express things from BOTH perspectives is so refreshing. I grew up Southern Baptist, and as we got older drifted into more non-denominational Christianity, and my parents were often asked to not bring me to the children's Sunday School classes because I asked too many questions that they couldn't (wouldn't) answer. All my life it was "you're too much. Just don't ask so many questions. Just go with it." But listening to episodes like this help me deconstruct not only the toxic teachings I received from church, but also the personal trauma of being "too much". Shelise and Johnothan, please keep this channel going. Y'all are helping so many people. If you aren't going to toot your horn, I'll toot it for you!

[@MarinaMandarinaWoolyWorld]

Love it! Thank you!

[@BrandHilton]

Former attendee of a charismatic church here, thoroughly enjoying watching Shelise react to what she's learning about Pentecostal church services 🤣

[@robertjanis9142]

There is absolutely no reason to equate those churches to true Christianity...that is a simpleton cop out of these "atheists".

[@BrandHilton]

@@robertjanis9142 Ever heard of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy?

[@robertjanis9142]

@@BrandHiltonAww did you hurt yourself trying to be clever? 😢

[@OspreyFlyer]

As a child, I initially went to a Methodist Church. Then at about 8 years old I was taken to a Pentecostal revival. I still remember it 60+ years later. I was in shock! I had never seen such a loud and lively meeting! 😂

[@KanraLovesHumans]

“You can come on the show but you have to be sorry!” 🤣🤣 Okay but yes lol, and what a great couple of interviews as a result!

[@Happydealhappyday]

God bless this pastor for being open to seeing that this theology is so messed up!! I came out of the same teachings from my cult church and I've never heard of a Pastor repenting of this mindset before. So refreshing for those of us still pursuing healing from the damage this "faith" did to our spiritual lives, and more importantly the twisted representation of God that is very unbiblical.

[@sharonminer9350]

Timmy is a fun interview! Thank you

[@michellenelsen6969]

My childhood now sort of makes sense. When I was about 7 or so years old, my parents started taking us to a "holy rolling church". There was soaking in tongues, healing services and believing that you could hear angels sing if you got into that mindset. At one Bible camp, they had girls "giving birth" to new souls in heaven. All completely weird. We stopped going to that church once I was in high school because my brother saw things in the church that just didn't seem right... so he encouraged my parents to start looking at other churches. As an adult with kids of my own and listening to podcasts like C to C and watching the different KZbin creators who got out of scientology, I wonder if I too was in a cult, so to speak. As an adult and married with kids if my own, we haven't really subscribed to going to church on the regular. Whenever I go to church, I get so emotional and can't really pinpoint why. Thank you Shelice and Timmy for bringing his story to light.

[@OspreyFlyer]

You make a good point. In the early 80s books and teachings came out in the Christian charismatic movement warning of non-Christian cults. As they would list the characteristics and signs of a cult, it also applied to them, the Word of Faith, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Holiness movements in Christianity. I was like, wait what?

[@fugician421]

These two are so great together! 💯

[@amyshew1151]

I ask the “believers” to get up and take action after they pray . I believes that’s respectful and from my perspective , great advice .

[@greendragon4058]

I like this guy we have to have one more interview with him I had to subscribe this this is real down-to-earth I like stuff

[@ovirago8314]

I just want to thank you both so much for doing these interviews. After watching the first one with Timmy I thought to myself “damn, that was healing to witness!”. Having grown up a pastor’s kid and ending up in the path of deconstruction in my early twenties in tandem with realizing I was queer, I’ve struggled for the last decade with unraveling the impact of my religious, dogmatic upbringing. I love studying the psychology of cults and found this channel about a year ago; I believe my interest in cult psychology hails from my own religious background, and I wish more people were having these conversations that allow for people to see the parallels between religious doctrine/practices and cults and how they operate. I hope this discussion continues to expand so more people can feel comfortable to make these comparisons!

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@ovirago8314 thank you so much! I really appreciate your kind words!

[@amyshew1151]

I have a lot of respect for anyone who who examines their closely held beliefs and decides they were misguided, or wrong, and have the guts to publicly share their path to making an entire world view life change . To me ? That takes a lot of guts and a real effort to perhaps reach others to examine their own beliefs too . Respect to you sir for waking up and sharing your path to change .

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@amyshew1151 that means a lot!

[@ajh3301]

Absolutely! Being honest with yourself is difficult. I’m questioning my faith and it’s really hard

[@catsanddogs8983]

Wonderful, thank you so much for this, the honesty is so refreshing.

[@renee8833]

This kind of gives me hope in humanity tbh

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@renee8833 That warms my heart!

[@least.114]

Such a bright personality and glowing person! This was such an awesome guest to have on your show. It's nice to see someone that was a pastor talk about this. I remember when we stopped going to church was I was younger, my amazing step father went with us and they started doing that weird stuff, I remember I felt uncomfortable and sort of scared. I never said anything but my dad felt the way and we never went back. I appreciate him for that.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@least.114 Thank you so much!

[@terrytrammell7388]

I grew up in the Baptist church and it’s comforting for me to believe that I will be reunited with my grandparents, parents, brother, cousins, aunts and uncles that I still love so deeply. It’s a personal preference and at 81 I doubt that I will ever change my feelings.

[@Kurtsyboi]

Hi Shelise and Timmy for both conversations. I was born and raised Mormon in SLC, moved to the Midwest as an adult, became a born again Christian and joined a very toxic cultish wildly charismatic church for 16 years! The church sounded like some of the worst Timmy described and more. I believe everything Timmy shared was authentic, I understood so much of what he described. OMG I went from thinking charismatics were of the devil when I was Mormon, to then thinking mormonism was demonic when I was born again! One main difference I want to call out about hell, Timmy’s parents worry he will go there, well Mormon parents at least believe that their kids that fall away will still make it to the lowest kingdom (where we are most comfortable- wink). So much for me to unravel being a part of these two different but so similar systems for 48 years. I find your podcasts helpful on my journey. Thank you both for your sensitivity and kindness with such personal subject matter.

[@swk258]

"(D)on't ruin your life..and don't ruin your future because of some past silly stuff. But look back in the past; fix it, repair it, don't do it again." Words to live by. Didn't know how much I needed that.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@swk258 ☺️

[@sarahissersohn5495]

As always, very engaging and entertaining interview, and guest. I have huge respect for anyone who voluntarily goes through the long dark teatime of the soul, where foundational beliefs are deeply examined and fully assessed both with intellect and intuition (the sniff test) Extremely intense emotional labor; definitely not for wimps

[@batyaswiftyasgur9500]

Great interview! Really important to hear the "insider's story" of what it's like being a "cult leader" (or "cult-adjacent" leader). I am curious how Timmy's spiritual evolution affected his marriage and would have asked him if I had been able to attend the live chat. He mentioned that he is divorced and is now happily remarried. Congratulations on your grandchild and I'm so happy that you have found a loving and compatible life partner! I know that spiritual changes within one member of a couple can have a profound impact, especially if the other member of the couple is still committed to the original belief system. Of course, this can also have an impact on children, parenting, etc. Couples who start out on the same page religiously/spiritually ("'praying together") and one of them moves away from the faith often go through turbulence and divorce as they grow apart. So I'm curious how that played out here, if that question isn't too personal. Again, kudos to Timmy for your honesty and integrity and willingness to follow your moral compass.

[@carabeingblue4016]

Oh man...after a bunch of people prayed over a terrible injury I received, a man from the prayer group looked me in the eye and said, knowingly, "People are going to want to see healing, now." Like there was something I was supposed to do to heal myself quicker so people would see evidence of their prayers. I just stared back helplessly in disbelief. Like, what? This is the same dude who called me a "fallen woman" when I stopped doing an extremely unhealthy diet plan and put some weight back on. Mind you, this guy suffered from muscular dystrophy - I was like - heal your own damn self!!!

[@OspreyFlyer]

I noticed as a kid some of the TV faith healers wore eye glasses. I was like, hello?, why can't you heal your eyesight? 😂

[@frietjemayo2620]

I'm so happy you did this part two! Thank you

[@jaysonjacob2891]

Great discussion! Thank You!

[@sommerhougo5159]

Thank you so much for bringing up Word of Faith. It doesn’t seem well understood in this space and I’m not sure why there aren’t more folks speaking out. Is it less obvious cultiness or just a smaller group of folks or fewer defectors?

[@OspreyFlyer]

I can't speak of the present. I saw it grow from small numbers in the 60s into and through the 90s. The number of churches and attendance exploded resulting in the mega churches. I also studied in depth the doctrine of the Word of Faith and Charismatic movements. Based on numbers there should be a lot of former members out there by now just through typical attrition.

[@OspreyFlyer]

Originally it had all the characteristics of a cult. As popularity increased it became more mainstream and toned down.

[@name.of.some.kind....]

Please remember everyone, if you have any relatives with schizophrenia - even if you haven’t personally experienced hallucinations and it’s just family - please have extreme caution or refrain completely when it comes to the use of psychedelics, it can trigger long lasting schizophrenic symptoms and can be dangerous.

[@janana6786]

You're very right!

[@wendychavez5348]

At age 15, i was in a car crash that resulted in a traumatic brain injury (and other injuries that seem less important because they were mostly healed by the time I was aware of them). As I recovered, I realized that death doesn't worry me, nor does whatever comes next. My nephew died last November, and that hit me hard because he was 34 and had just gotten his Masters in engineering. I celebrate his life and acknowledge that the world is a better place for his existence--which doesn't stop just because his life did! Timmy, you have that kind of exuberance. I admire you and Shelise for it!

[@leona2222]

I lived right next-door to Pentecostal Church, but we were not religious. However, everyone in the neighborhood was and attended. One Sunday a friend in the neighborhood invited me to go. I was about 12 years old. So because she was my friend, I said OK. I saw the first speaking of tongues there and hands on. It seemed insane to me. And I still remember to this day one of the words that were spoken, “Sol a men a mum” I don’t know why I remember that.

[@tangerinefizz11]

It sounds like the person was just saying amen with two different pronunciations.

[@xochitlkitty]

@50 min. I admire him for being able to look back on his actions and own up to any harm he might have caused. To do it publicly like this is also admirable. This also gives me hope- if a pastor who had power and a decent income and belief can see his way out of it, then maybe more others will as well. It’s great to see that people can reject authoritarianism.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@xochitlkitty I really appreciate that!

[@quarterpint3730]

Fellow exmormon here-they technically do believe in “weird alien stuff” but tend to not think of it that way. Mormons believe that Elohim and his wife (or wives) are beings with physical bodies who live on another planet called Kolob. Elohim and the resurrected Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in a beam of light, which also seems rather alien to non Mormons who think about it. Also, it’s heavily implied in the theology that the gods came from other beings (their gods) who inhabit their own planets. And that one day, if we are good and faithful, we will be resurrected beings with our own planets. So Mormons believe in lots of aliens. They just would be offended if you frame it that way.

[@cosmicproductionsone7112]

Timmy grew up and left the school ! Now he's evolving and enrolled in the university! 🎉

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@cosmicproductionsone7112 Woot woot!

[@annina_pure_creativity]

Thank you for this Interview. I can 100% relate, leaving the evangelical pentecostal charismatic circle, 5 years ago.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@annina_pure_creativity so you know exactly what I was talking about!

[@donnavickery9623]

Timmy’s church was over the top. The Methodist Church I grew up in was NOTHING like this. They did not try to control you.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@donnavickery9623 Yes, this is true! I realize many “Christians” are not even close to being as weird as I was! 😂 But it is my story.

[@donnavickery9623]

@@timmygibsonkc You are not weird. This is what you were raised to believe. But you are not calling your church out by it’s denomination. You are implying that ALL Christians hold the beliefs that your church or your denomination held and that is not true. Your denomination took everything to the extreme. The Mormons are a cult. The Catholics are a cult. Muslims are a cult and your church was a cult. Cults shame, manipulate and control their members. That is all I am saying. It bothers me that you use the word or term “CHRISTIAN” to describe your church. Why not use the name of the denomination? That would be much more accurate. As far as you go. I think that you are a wonderful person who genuinely believed that you were doing your very best to serve God. And you were. I am sure that you helped many people who were lost and who needed direction in order to give their lives purpose and meaning, You truly believed that you were doing your best to serve God and your INTENTIONS were genuine and pure. You are an extraordinary human being. Let go of the shame and guilt that you have been programmed all of your life to carry. By coming out and telling the truth and helping others to see the truth-you are truly fulfilling God/Source’s purpose for your life. Do what makes you happy. Do what fills you up . This is your purpose. God Bless you and keep you. P.S. The Council of Nicea of The Roman Catholic Church was corrupt and they altered and corrupted the Bible so that they could control the world. Jesus is real and his teachings on love and forgiveness are real. They teaching come from The Law of One. Where we go one, we go all. Source is real and he dearly loves you. Keep doing what you are doing. You are fantastic and don’t you ever forget it.

[@TunziSNORT]

This was a game changer for me. Timmy you are brave and what we need. Very handsome as well

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@TunziSNORT Awe! Thank you so much!

[@kidchriz]

Thank you Shelise (She Lies😉) and Timmy for a wonderful hour - I love the honesty and humor. So refreshing to hear you talk. So empowering. I deconstructed in ‘87. There was no internet then. Discovering these channels recently is like reliving my deconstruction. A homecoming of sorts. Both of you are therapeutic to me now. What was heavy then truly changes into something much lighter and funny even. I studied at Moody Bible Institute. Got married - but was gay … praying couples are staying couples. Not! All good now.

[@rainbowwwkim]

Loved the heavenly cookie comment 😂

[@jenn2712]

Hi Shelise, love your channel! Would you consider interviewing John Collins from the channel, Leaving the Message? "The Message" is/was one of those post-WWII healing revival cults. Thanks

[@מאירבןלזר]

To me, he sounds like a nice person to talk to. Thanks for the potex. It was very interesting. I went out with the religion at first. I also resisted everything, but now I say live and let live.

[@sabo5080]

Timmy explained his past beliefs well. I have respect that he tried Christianity and realized it wasn't for him but he didn't trash the experience for others. I'm pentecostal and still am after hearing you. The problem is that the system forgets pastors are humans with desires and faults. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@BrandHilton]

The neanderthal comment around 37:30 resonates with me SO HARD!! One of the first steps in my journey away from fundamentalism was the first time I told someone outside the church that I believed the Bible was 100% true, and that Genesis was literally true. In my mind, I had always imagined that the conversation would be an argument and that my opponent would be awestruck by my faith and would desire to be close to God like I was. In reality, this guy, whom I respected VERY much, just looked at me with such pity, and I felt SO STUPID.

[@ninaschultz6922]

Congrats on your journey 😊 gotta start somewhere, and please do not feel shame for knowledge that you simply did not have. I was never religious, but I was blind in many ways anyway 😅 Huge cudos to you for not shutting down, not doubling down on beliefs you had, but that you actually wanted to know, asked more questions and have gone on that journey 🎉❤ big wow 🎉 ❤

[@robertjanis9142]

Wow you won't believe how stupid you will feel when you stand before a holy God with only your hubris and lack of understand between you and His wraith...but hey as long as a fellow humanbeing doesn't make you feel stupid!

[@melaniehuff1047]

I went through cancer treatments at sixteen, and my parents asked the elders of the church to pray over me. I still remember the weight of all their hands, pressing down. It didn’t feel like healing, it felt claustrophobic and stifling.

[@kansashighlights624]

I actually think that had less to do with the theology and more to do with your personality type. Some people just don't like people crowding around them, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[@melaniehuff1047]

@@kansashighlights624 That could definitely be a contributing factor. However, there was a lot of other stuff going on with this church and group of people that really doesn’t fit in a KZbin comment section.

[@dreamingofMUSE]

I grew up listening to men like him in the church. My gut is just thrown by this guy. Still love the channel.

[@serendipity1237]

“Thrown”, in what way? (Just curious)

[@starri9103]

Oh yes, the charming and manipulative ways they have and employ. Even people in these comments are making reference in a rather 'worshipful' way. Easy pickins' for the type.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@dreamingofMUSE Totally get that. I’m sure it comes from all those years of being a preacher! But don’t worry, I’m not asking for anything from you! I don’t have land to sell, or even a book to buy! You’re safe to observe! I remember as part of my therapy I did some group sessions and in these group sessions before anyone could actually meet anyone else we were to go around the room stand face-to-face with other members of the group and tell them exactly what we thought of them at first Bluff . This was a very interesting exercise and I found that my look alone “smile blue eyes, blonde hair, tattoos, exuding confidence “actually made some people instantly not like me. But what was cool is at the end of this group session and we all got to know each other after the weekend full of Therapy we did the same exercise face with people that we went through deep dark things with and it was at this time that many of those that didn’t like me instantly now loved me as I loved them. So I take no offense at someone’s opinion of me when they don’t know me.

[@Fullmetal1890P]

I grew up Pentecostal and I can attest to all of this happening. Being slain in the spirit was one of the most terrifying and traumatizing things I've ever been through, and I was forced into it when I was only 14. It was insane.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@Fullmetal1890P it is insane! Though at the time it seemed so normal. The further I get away the more I come to terms with just how off it was!

[@inchristalone25]

Religion gives people toxic shame. Jesus rebuked religious people the MOST.

[@stacey5440]

First, thank you for everything about this. I also want to thank Timmy for saying, “I’m *only* 55” because that’s exactly how it feels. 😂 We’re not dumb, we know we’re not young! But I still feel like I have so so much to learn that it’s hard to remember I’m the adult in the room sometimes! Thank you. 😊

[@jennifererickson2355]

I remember the first time I seen someone speaking in tongues. I was at my aunts church and this was standing on his head worshiping in tongues. My 7 year brain in that moment was so confused.

[@CAROLHELLER-h2i]

Interesting discussion!I like to hear different perspectives!

[@abigailgingerbear359]

I think whats confusing as a Christian is because I don't understand how you could know Jesus and then deny him. God is as real to me as any earthly person I know. I have an actual relationship with God so I don't understand if someone has that they could then deny it. When I accepted Christ I actually knew internally he was in the room with me. I was awestruck and it was undeniable. I also wasn't caught up in any "religion" christian or otherwise. It was just a one on one relationship with God directly. I think a lot of people that claim to be "Christian" are actually just caught up in religion and never actually developed a real relationship with Jesus. There are a lot of wacky Christian religions out there that don't have much to do with the real Jesus at all. God loves us he doesn't expect us to jump through hoops for him. He doesn't need us - we need Him. Also it's His faith we live by not our own. He gave us His life, he doesn't need us to give Him ours. We need Him and he is happy to give us everything we need including his faith. All he wants from us is a relationship nothing more. If we are sick God loves us through it, He doesn't always heal us. I've been through some really awful things that God used to teach me certain things. He loved me through them and I'm am better having gone through it. I wish people would give him a chance and go directly to Him apart from religion. He's not the demanding tyrant he's made out to be. He's the kindest most giving and patient father anyone could have and our sin is gone to him because of what Jesus did and that includes all of us. He's not focused on our sin and he's not mad at us. He is FOR is NOT against us!! Unfortunately He's been filtered through religion and it has distorted his true character so much He's become unrecognizable. The same thing happened with the Jews which is why Jesus tried so hard to provide them with a real picture of who his father truly was.

[@janana6786]

Thank you, Abigail. ❤ My feelings exactly. I love the Lord and I'm sorry for these people who were deceived.

[@kansashighlights624]

Amen 👍👍👍

[@suzetteemberton4368]

Please - please - don’t presume to know someone else’s heart and mind. Instead of filtering their story through your beliefs, listen - really listen - and hear what they’re saying about their life experiences and beliefs. You’re starting with your belief of “once saved, always saved”, and that’s causing you to automatically disregard Timmy’s lived experiences. The reality is that people can and do change sincerely held beliefs for a variety of reasons.

[@tinkerbelle_belle1980]

I remember when I was around 16 years old I was in a minor fender bender. Little did I know it was one my friends and her older sister, who were Pentecostal. Since it was so minor they decided not to contact insurance...IF I would visit their church once. That day was wild for me!

[@OspreyFlyer]

I mentioned on here going to a Pentecostal revival as a kid. I had only been to a Methodist church. Yeah, it was wild! 😂

[@haylebales]

Wish we could see the live convo from this event there were some very helpful gems in that dialogue

[@helenr4300]

maybe it is time? - now 2 days after it is there as replay. I have watched former lives shortly after and they have not had the chat replay but appears in time

[@haylebales]

@@helenr4300 Thanks so much for the heads up :)!

[@mailill]

Very interesting topic! Looking forward to this! (The start is promising, I haven't watched all, yet) 5:05 About the "positive thinking" and putting things out in the universe (manifestation?) . I'll challenge this a bit by recommending the book _Bright-sided_ by Barbara Ehrenreich. (Though, I do believe a certain degree of positive thinking is probably a good thing - as long as it doesn't become a fake fantasy bubble. )

[@BramptonAnglican]

Thanks for the great interview. Also he’s a whole stud muffin.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@BramptonAnglican Ha ha … well thank you! ☺️

[@BramptonAnglican]

@@timmygibsonkc lol anytime. You have a great personality. Keep up the great work. Definitely glad you’re sharing with us.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@BramptonAnglican ☺️

[@BramptonAnglican]

@@timmygibsonkc ❤️❤️❤️

[@kristinbond7506]

“Do what thou wilt” Alister Crowley

[@elleryrhodes8818]

33:42 some people also laugh when they're anxious/uncomfortable/nervous. I know I laugh a lot sometimes at things that are horrible or I'm sorry for because of nerves. The charisma and open, playful tone of this chat is extremely welcoming and honest in my opinion.

[@timmygibsonkc]

@@elleryrhodes8818 Well thank you. I’ll need to watch the video again, but I’m normally a very jovial - upbeat - laugh - easily and also lighthearted kind of guy. Well that’s until the cops knocked on my door at 2am looking for my kids who were were out teepeeing 😂😂😂 (damn preachers kids stirring up trouble!)

[@wendychavez5348]

"The right interpretation" is absolutely subjective! I learned that at the Methodist school I attended as a Catholic child for grades 7-12. The Bible they used in all the "religious studies" classes, which changed at least once during those 6 years, was approved by the Catholic church because they did want to cover the Apocrypha for certain classes, and since many of the students were Muslim or Sikh (both of which have sizable communities in north central New Mexico), those views were also covered in both chapel services and the classroom. I love that you currently embrace tolerance, regardless of what you may have taught in the past.

[@graceelizabethhoskins6379]

Next episode with Timmy: "Ex cult leader learns that the voice of God speaking to him was actually undiagnosed ADHD" (said in the most loving joking way possible lol)

[@AZensibleOption]

Reposting a version of my comment from yesterday only bc it’s happened again LMAO 🤣: “The way Timmy’s describing his congregation [slithering on the floor & falling to the ground when hitting their forehead] immediately made the Crash Test Dummies’s song “Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm” pop in my head🤘🏽🔥🤘🏽” Sorry Shelise, but I’d put all my money, deed to my house, next born grandchild on Jonathan knowing the song before you left the LDS church. (Just to clarify - since my kids will not be having kids, you’d be getting a puppy & not a baby)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😂😂😂

[@sbobbyboi]

Rhema Bible Training Center…I’ll name it (and claim it, lol) that’s the school he attended. I grew up in a church in the pacific northwest where the pastors were trained there and adopted their doctrines. I also left that church after high school, and ended up at another church rooted in the same Bible college. Both were very abusive to their congregants, manipulative, greedy, and the pastors were like gods in the churches. I can’t even talk to the people who I used to be friends/go to these churches with, as many of them are still in the cult. Glad I made it out!! After years of therapy I’m more in touch with who I am and happier than I’ve ever been!

[@OspreyFlyer]

Yeah, I'm familiar with Word of Faith doctrine, Kenneth Hagin, Rhema, and knew or met quite a few graduates over the years. It's a different world out there at Rhema.

[@TheNurseWhoLovedMe89]

I grew up Anglican (it was pleasant! I’m not Christian anymore but those were honestly pretty okay times!), and I still remember a few times when our church invited other Christian congregations to come to our church to do a combined service, with the goal of building a bigger community between Christians. I tell you what, the Pentecostal church members were something else😅 I remember watching them doing the dancing and hand waving and thinking, “Man, they are SO KEEN on Jesus😶” lol. There was no talking in tongues or isle snaking, so I wonder if the pastor told them to keep it toned down for the boring Anglicans or if it was just understood that they probably shouldn’t do it if they’re guests in our church or something?🤔 They knew how to hype things up though, they literally brought their full band with them and it was like being at a legit music show haha. It made such an impression that our church put together our own band after that too😅 Very interesting to think back on now! The early 2000’s were a wild time🤷🏻‍♀️😅🤗✨💖

[@StaceyMifsud]

When we visited baptist churches as pentecostals or they visited our church we didn't speak in tongues so as not to offend them. So yeah they were probably holding back.

[@TheNurseWhoLovedMe89]

@@StaceyMifsud That’s so interesting to hear, thank you for replying! 💖✨🥰

[@OspreyFlyer]

I saw the bands (drums, guitars, keyboards, etc.) spread through the American churches in the youth groups. It started in the charismatic churches. Most others had only choirs and an organ.

[@lydiaheijne1476]

You look so happy!

[@rosepurdy6301]

My boy just turned 6 mo (just want to say girl you look so good and healthy) also i am a weird christian (meaning not liberal, not conservative, not extreme .... havent found a denomination... ) absolutely love your channel ❤❤❤ supporting the concept that folks need to think for themselves.👣👣 hope you dont mind, but blessings on Your bb, and fam, and channel 🙏

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you so much! Congrats on your little one too!

[@afterthestorm221]

Thank you so much for validating my belief that pastors are just as human as anyone else, as that is not an accepted opinion in my family.

[@our3geckos]

Watching replay 👍🏻❣️ 💞 ALOHA FROM HAWAI'I 💞🌹 LYSSA 🌹