Regrinding Coffee - A Surprising Result

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[@tomjagiello5119]

Huge thanks for making a video about this James! I honestly think it's rather interesting and shines more light on how burrs work. I'm fairly sure this is obvious to some people (burr designers are probably saying duh!), but for most it's going to be an eye opener. The whole bean-by-bean feeding came about when I realised how single-dosing causes a coarsening grind profile ie. you get more fines at the start and the as the burr chamber empties, the grind goes coarser. Trying to minimise this I played around with weights stuck on top of beans, but that made it worse (way finer grind at the start and same coarse grind at the end). So I went the other way and figured out super slow feeding means you always end up with the "coarse" portion of the ground dose. Bean-by-bean feeding is of course taking this idea to the extreme. As for regrinding, I find it produces a much cleaner cup on a 71mm conic when using a V60 / pour over methods. Less silt, less muddy notes, just overall better. Augers are the way to go imho, gravity feeding and single dosing isn't perfect imho. Btw the "disk" on the Niche is "inspired" by the above ideas. As for stacked burrs, look at Versalab, they had this idea absolute ages ago, with a cut down conical to pre-crush and a flat burr for proper grinding, all this to avoid gravity and emptying burr chambers affecting grind quality. Last but not least, as I said on Twitter, huuuge props for proper surname pronunciation!

[@Frantixj]

I have the same last name and it really surprised me how well he pronounced it!

[@kasahacker]

in a way, that's similar to how roller mill grinders work, multiple grinding stages. And they're known to have a superb particle size distribution, so probably if you can manufacture the multi burr grinder very well it could lead to a better result than a single pass grinder. I reckon the main difficulty is consistency and relatively slow output.

[@voidremoved]

just don't go inventing my coffee teat... this bean by bean grinding... Just don't go and do bean by bean brewing and attach it to a rubber nipple that dispenses coffee when you tongue it

[@humphrey2703]

You did the "single bean grinding" with conical burrs. Or did you also test is with flat burrs? Would be interesting if the effect is equal or different depending on what type of burrs you use.

[@tyroneedge8267]

Great post- I second your comments about the Versalab- I have one and it is a spectacular grinder, and its small footprint is a huge bonus that grew on me exponentially over time. I understand that they recently released field installable improvements, but I haven't ordered the upgrade kit yet. I can't say enough good things about this grinder- it is a pleasure to use and is really a classic design.

[@bushputz]

Making coffee used to be so simple. Then I found your channel.

[@Vercus100]

This comment is tragically underappreciated. This pretty much sums up my coffee experience over the last several months.

[@tannerrussell9697]

Used to be cheap too. 😏

[@MrMexi-oe8eq]

I used to be happy with keurig pods. Then my I got a French press and grew taste buds

[@Butterratbee]

@@MrMexi-oe8eqyeah but a French press is only complicated comps to pods

[@ola_vii]

Amen. But then again, I’ve managed to make better coffee for example with my moka pot ☕️😊 Thanks to this channel.

[@mirnajimenez.hernandez5896]

I got a Nescafe ad before a James video. The AUDACITY.

[@mimachado5546]

Mirna Jiménez.Hernández 😂😂😂

[@laura-lydia7610]

Same. I have a Keurig and now I feel bad about it 😂

[@timothy2204]

Hahahah me too

[@neogenzim1995]

Indeed, how dare they?! *sips offbrand instacoffee*

[@jonathandavies9451]

Ha ha me too! It makes me feel good that Google ads aren't as clever as we sometimes think they are!!

[@flatulenzio]

My wife when she sees me grinding already ground coffee: "you did watch a video of that britisch guy again, did you..?!"

[@przemek7229]

Haha, fantastic! :D

[@Joker-qy2fv]

Neeeeee, hab ich nicht. (Nase wächst exponentiell)

[@hair2050]

🤣

[@blackforest_fairy]

Das ist aber auch kein echter Brite... Hoffmann ist ein deutscher Name...

[@flightofthecorvus6411]

🤣🤣🤣 the struggle is real!!

[@alharris8861]

Tried this with a hand grinder. Still grinding.

[@SmokinRoach]

underrated comment

[@sosasoseante8757]

Are you done yet?

[@Daphne0804]

It was funny coz i tried double grind before this video, wish fine grind can be finer but end up never pass thru the hand grinder.

[@Martioflorence]

Legends says he still grinding to this day

[@colinmaynard2879]

Steadily grinding one bean at a time!

[@spencersmustache2844]

I could see this opening up the doors to multiple stage grinders.

[@michaelguieb2084]

If I'm not mistaken, double grinding was used by a competitor on the WBC few years ago.

[@speaknup8009]

Multi-stage grinders, OR, perhaps grinders that have a way to control the rate of feed of beans to the burrs.

[@JDMeister]

Like the DRM burrset?

[@chahahc]

Wonder if some company will make a residential roller grinder.

[@corwinblack4072]

Or grinder with feeder.

[@remnant24]

For god's sake man, I'm trying to SHORTEN my espresso prep time.

[@jameshoffmann]

I know, me too! (Also sorry)

[@mimachado5546]

Vodkainum I hear you!

[@willnzsurf]

Haha as a former Barista, I felt that.💯Lol😊

[@mikasuryapranata8107]

I laughed too hard 😂😂😂

[@JoeHoltPiano]

Hahaha yes! 😂

[@tkaotic]

I did this! I set up my beans in a funnel with a little arduino gadget blocking the opening to regulate the "bean flow rate" for a really consistent drop time (extra I know) and overall I noticed a super super consistent grind more so than just filling the hopper and tested this with 3 different coffee I get from Trade. I was able to use nearly a 2 stop finer setting without choking and my crema and flavor was so much Richer across the board! Really interesting concept.

[@x.zubayrkhandwalla1965]

Can you provide more info on your arduino gadget? I’m super intrigued to try this out

[@mattferguson674]

I made a comment as I sat down to watch the video that Jame was doing the work so we don't have to. I've finished watching and it ends up, I was wrong. We've been given homework! Time to grind...slowly.

[@jpjay1584]

careful with those early likes. I will not do the homework (due to absence of a grinder) so I won´t regret my like. I hope he doesn´t find out.

[@Koorstag]

I always grind slowly because I only have a hand grinder. lol

[@satriyodibyos1930]

@@Koorstag Me too hahaha

[@mrkesu]

@@Koorstag I hadn't thought about that, but it's interesting to think about it. I wanted to get a hand grinder for travel, but now I have another excuse, scientific comparisons!

[@mattferguson674]

I've been curious about this topic ever since Kruve released their sifters. I mean, what else to do with the boulders? But luckily I live in a world where James can do the tests so I don't have to. Keep up the good work!

[@darknessblades]

Maybe James can do a Battle of the Kruve. VS a vibrating sifter used in labs. {with Sieves up to 1200 Micron} {Since the Lab equipment serves the same purpose but it is only automated, and has more sieve choices}

[@Roont3]

Avid Kruve sifter user and data recorder here. For about 80% of coffees (light roasts), they're clearer and sweeter as a V60 with the grounds sifted, and then the boulders re-ground one time. I toss about 2-3 grams of fines per 15g dose.

[@billtotman]

@@Roont3 - Thanks for sharing. Since I use a Clever, I would just throw the finer grounds on top of the crust and stir it in later in the brew cycle.

[@DJxSGGxNeo]

I tried this years ago, my coffee grinder jammed up. So be careful.

[@BariSaxGod25]

I just tried this with filter coffee, and it was interesting but probably not worth the effort. My grinder is a Baratza Encore, and i used a plastic v60 with unbleached tabless filters. I did 20 grams of coffee to 330 grams of water using Hoffmann's ultimate technique (45 second bloom). Before doing this, I thoroughly cleaned the burr chamber and the chute that leads to the grounds bin. I had to put 20.5 grams in to get 20 grams out of a totally clean grinder for this. I usually grind on 13 for this coffee, and for this I ground on 11. My coffee was a medium roast Colombian. Grinding was PAINFUL. In the Encore, beans spin around between the burrs for a second before actually grinding, so it took 5-10 minutes (not sure exactly) to grind 20 grams. Upon a cursory visual inspection, the grounds looked about the same as usual, maybe a bit finer and with fewer fines, but it's hard to say. i brewed as normal, and the coffee drew down in about 3:20, as opposed to the usual 3:23 with this coffee. As far as taste goes, it was a little bit sweeter than usual, but that wasn't the main thing that I found interesting. The tasting notes on the bag are green apple, mandarin orange, and toffee. I find those to be pretty accurate, so they are what I will use to describe this coffee. Usually when I brew, the most prominent note is green apple, but with this new technique, the mandarin orange note became far more prominent, and the green apple sank into the background. The toffee note was also more prominent. It was also less bitter than usual. The bitterness wasn't a problem previously - it was the good kind of bitter, and was not too prominent - but this was nonetheless quite interesting. I'm tempted to try this again, but I've already had too much coffee and I need to be productive now. I hope this was interesting. Thanks for making this video, James. Super interesting.

[@LILB33623]

Calvin Rey Hey Calvin thanks for sharing. I have this exact same set up. Wondering what brand of colombian you use. I've been using the scott rao method for my v60 just because it seems easier. To follow the Hoffman method do you use any app or just rewatch the video? For the Scott Rao method I use his app called Brewtime.

[@felixbach379]

Great comment, enjoyed reading it, it's really interesting.

[@henlolneh]

thanks for the info! what blew my mind the most is that you grind at 13 for v60!

[@lizcademy4809]

@@henlolneh I grind at 10-11 for my Melitta - but I'm using cheap beans from Aldi. [For their cost, they're the best cheap beans you'll ever find. Not excellent, but good enough.] I use 29 grams per 500g water.

[@ashishmittal1078]

@@henlolneh i have also found 13 a good grind setting for medium roast. However, my encore is new and i was wondering which setting u use for a medium roast coffee for a v60?

[@stanislawcronberg3271]

EK43: I can grind 20g/s James: No

[@dsacul]

It may be why EK43 is so good. Given it's speed and single dosing it is by default equivalent to grinding few beans at a time. Hence why it need very fine setting for espresso...

[@mikni4069]

The EK43 has a feeder so it’s basically feeding those massive burrs a few beans at a time, secondly there is never bean pressure on the burrs this is both an effect of the beans fed behind the burrs and the orientation of the burrs. It has therefore close to no effect to feed it slower.

[@gaiabravo]

I really appreciate how transparent you are, how you admit and make up for any mistakes, and respect conflict of interest issues etc. Not enough youtubers do this, and it really speaks to your high level of ethics.

[@alanz90]

Bruh we know he's fair skinned but isn't 'transparent' a bit racist? :p

[@b1_ferg]

@@alanz90 😂

[@finspin4984]

Been drinking Square Mile Los Ancestros all week. Between the coffee and your fun and light videos quarantine is that much more bearable.

[@rurikau]

When I worked on a brewery I used to run my grain through the mill twice. The first time the rollers were set so they would just crack the grain. The second pass the rollers were a set a touch finer than normal. I ended up with little bits of malt with less flour than in a single pass. By doing this I got a higher extract effiency and faster lauter.

[@ilturcocinque1003]

Changing the amount of coffee that goes through the burrs affects the load of the burr, its speed, and therefore the ratio between cutting,shearing and compression forces,resulting in different grind profile. A higher load produces a "finer" grind, with more fine particles, while a lower load leads to a coarser and more uniform grind (it obviously depends on how you measure uniformity. Controlling the feeding rate of coffee mass is one way to manipulate particle size distribution. multi stage grinding also has a similar effect and its based on a similar principle. Splitting the load of the grinding process into multiple progressive stages produces a more uniform grind,with lower temperatures and higher output. multi stage roller mills used in coffee industry have this kind of features, with controlled feed rate, 2 or plus stages of grinding, adjustable rolls speed, various rolls teeth profiles,densifying stage etc. allowing for a complete control of particle size distribution.

[@vlcr]

I totally believe that this comment should be higher up the list. From my side I'd just add that you can try to measure and control the particle distribution in the final load of coffee being used for brewing. By using tools like KRUVE Sifter or any other sieve set of known sizes and a scale, you should be able to tell how many (in terms of weight) particles of given size range are in the load. Different particles distribution profiles will effect the extraction during the brew and of course the final taste of coffee. I would be happy to see someone (hopefully James himself) digging more into the subject.

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Multi-step grinding isn't new, but it is new in the hand grinding industry. It is a game changer, opening a whole new world of coffee grinding. The challenge is how to produce uniform particles fast without too much fine

[@notphilipbrown]

i would like to see one niche grind coarsely directly into another niche grinding finely , double instantaneous grinding.

[@UncleSkiBum]

It would be like some Wallace and Grommet crazy wacky invention

[@WonderHugo]

This is the future.

[@albuu77]

Yaaaaaassssss!

[@stirfryjedi]

Sounds like that would put it in a very niche market sector (sorry I had to)

[@damfadd]

double. burr set under one another

[@pashasoofi30]

Its 11:00 pm, I tried it and yeah it is sweeter, and noticably so. But I can't sleep now😂.

[@naturligfunktion4232]

But you did good for science!

[@whazzat8015]

That's why god made Scotch whisky

[@zoes7434]

2 years too late but I tried slowly grinding my coffee beans in my hand grinder, I didn't add the beans slowly I just ground a lot slower, and I'm genuinely blown away by the results. An amazing cup of coffee! Everything else was the same. Same grind setting, same beans, same ratio, same brew method, same timing.

[@Cezve_340ml]

Another late response but still: does this mean that potentially slower settings for the grinder's motor would do the same job without need to slowly feeding the beens?

[@thekiwisage]

@@Cezve_340mleven later response, but lance hedrick has commented a lot on how lower RPM grinders produce less fines and have less retention

[@raphaelmcginnis3835]

hey james, I would like to know if you would be intrested to make a video on how you clean your equipement. Maybe talk about the effect of different cleaning methodshave on your extraction. I do believe that most people (me included) do not maintain our tools well enough.

[@SteveFullerBikes]

THIS

[@UncleRiotous]

Yeah. Me too.

[@ericrogers4690]

This would be great. I’m a relatively new V60 brewer, and desperately trying to figure out why my it is taking twice as long as it should to finish brewing. The only way I’ve been able to get reasonable results given this brew time is setting my Baratza Sette 30 on the coursest setting (30). I have attempted to clean it many, many times, but maybe it’s not sufficient. If a proper cleaning doesn’t yield better results, then, we’ll, I have no idea what else to try.

[@dompercy]

I agree with this idea too

[@AquatikZero]

@@ericrogers4690 Hey I can probably give the assist on this one-- Are you stirring/swirling your v60 too much? I found there was a sweet spot for how much you want to agitate your v60 brew around. His v60 tutorial video has tons of depth but.. Try giving this a shot for a comparison: when you brew next time try not swirling/stirring and avoid running water on the sides. You'll see the brew time go down quite a bit. I personally got into pour over about two weeks ago; realized I was stirring too much and it was okay to be a little more aggressive with the first half of pouring. I don't make a perfect cup, but it's definitely gotten better with practice. 😀 TL;DR- swirl lightly. use hot water. pour faster in the first half of the brew and level for the second half!

[@feliciabarker9210]

Hoffman big brain: What if we could combat regrinding... by regrinding?

[@colinmaynard2879]

Felicia Barker Indeed it’s the same with “how to get the best brew from a french press”...don’t press!

[@luke78333]

Hey James, I've recently come across your videos and since watching them, the coffee i'm making at home is the best I've ever had anywhere. I hope people realize that you have brought world-class barista coaching to every day people, using every day language people can understand in some super entertaining videos! Thanks heaps! Luke

[@petarzadraznik5422]

After watching this, I tried feeding my beans into a hand held grinder a few at a time. V60 pour over method. Definitely a slightly sweeter result with the same beans and method that I had been using everyday, for at least a week. The conundrum: knowing my coffee could taste better...but having to grind for ten times longer to achieve it. For some maybe an easy answer:grind longer. Makes me question just how far I will go or how much of a perfectionist I am. My coffee making has become an S & M experience. LOL!

[@keijimorita1849]

Your last sentence applies to lots of things when taken to a high level!

[@ellenmarch3095]

You had me at coffee. You kept me at S&M. 😂

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

MOMENTEM, the true dual-burr hand grinder that makes regrinding simple and fast, no more suffering for regrinding

[@snowdogs5432]

You could make a multi-stage grinder as some have mentioned- you could also refine things and have a grinder that only allows one bean in at a time to REALLY slow things down while letting you "set it and forget it."

[@YouEligat]

Aaand by dealing with single coffee beans (or quantums of coffee) at a time, you could call this new machine... THE QUANTUM GRINDER!

[@MelindaGreen]

One *could* do all kinds of things, but first we need to know *if* it works, and if so, *why* it works. Asking thousands to test it is the right way to start. Innovation will happen if it's needed.

[@worawatli8952]

I can see the future of hi-end grinders with 4 stages. lol

[@Stoney3K]

@@worawatli8952 I can see such a thing working for people who are really, really adamant about getting the perfect espresso. Most mainstream grinders are intented to have high throughput because they will also be run in coffee shops. Such a grinder would be a huge... niche... market. The Niche Quantum?

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

@@MelindaGreen It works, MOMENTEM works

[@carlosbornes]

I've built what I call a small feeder to feed beans into my Baratza Encore I noticed that like this I can get a much more uniform grounds. But I need to select a much lower grind setting.

[@UncleSkiBum]

Ooh interesting will have to try this on my encore

[@lizcademy4809]

Plans, or at least some guidance? I was thinking of trying this with my Encore this weekend, when I have time to feed beans in slowly.

[@William_Saint-Agne]

How have you made it out of?

[@rbain2813]

How would one go about that?

[@carlosbornes]

Nothing super fancy I just 3D printed a funnel like device with a small hole that allows feeding 1 bean at a time. With smaller beans feeds more than one and bigger one do not work but anyway it works for me for sure you guys can think about something better suited

[@The34gl3]

Spending hours re-grinding coffee? Sure. Ironing my shirts? Waste of time. Love your videos, I also find ironing a waste of time.

[@Call-me-Al]

I mean, there are plenty of shirts made to not wrinkle so you don't need to iron them... Non-iron shirts I think they are called, even though that sounds like you can't iron them and not that you don't need to.

[@ilrompiscatole5414]

Two months ago I didn’t really care about coffee. My coffee tasted like burnt tires and so I just didn’t drink it 😬 Now I’m using the right water, measuring things, timing the shots, trying to taste different coffee, investing in better equipment and pulling shots just to improve my technique. James, what have you done 😂

[@anonym_s5031]

But does your coffee taste better than burnt tires though?

[@rhetwylie1786]

Nope, but it's the journey not the destination. -_-

[@justme...]

You ruined your peaceful life

[@colinmaynard2879]

So you had an espresso maker just sitting there? Jealous...

[@petegalvs]

@@colinmaynard2879 My thoughts exactly!

[@danielarms8192]

Hey James, I'm a barista from Aus and drink almost exclusively filter coffee at home. I use a commandante hand grinder, and I have taken to grinding with it on its side to slow the coffee down before it goes in. I find that it gives much cleaner and sweeter coffee profiles. I know hand grinders are a different, much slower beast then electric but I think that it still hold merit. Thanks for your videos!

[@RedmanJones]

Always a pleasure seeing an upload from Sir Hoffmann, patron saint of coffee

[@benfan7434]

Hoffmann*, put some respeck on his name.

[@RedmanJones]

Respek restored

[@baronasmedyje]

9:21 I was screaming when you were holding your fingers in the grinder

[@aaronlarson479]

I just tried a variation of this as a pour over. I'd been wondering about double grinding for a while, but this idea of feeding the beans slowly was intriguing enough for me to finally try it. I slowly ground a 22g dose at the coarsest setting on my Baratza Encore, then set the grinder about 3 clicks finer than usual and fed the grinder slowly, about a pinch at a time. Then I brewed a V60 at 16:1. I don't want to comment on quality until I've tried it a few more times, but even at a significantly finer grind setting the brew finished about 30 seconds earlier than planned, and drawdown didn't slow near the end like I'm used to. This would seem to indicate a much lower amount of fines.

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

How about the cup taste?

[@marcelmoura1774]

I absolutely love how this guy is 100% ready to question and put to test his own ideas again and again. To me this is the signature of scientific integrity. As a porous media scientist myself, I sometimes feel that this kind of approach is frequently lacking in much of the scientific community. Not many people have the guts to question their own beliefs and claims, and the lack of this questioning halts much scientific progress. In a world where people are ready to question their beliefs, science moves faster and coffee tastes better. Thank you again James!

[@GrumpyGrunt]

"Little" Niche? That thing is an elegant beast. The one piece of gear you have that I really, really want. Stay well, James.

[@nofam]

It was James' initial review and the fact that it kept popping up on subsequent videos that led me to order one. Only shame is that I have to wait until August to get it!!

[@abubarista]

The title sequence was absolutely brilliant!

[@inuyashaspet]

I actually found out about regrinding from Jianing Du, the brewer champion from 2019. She recommended grinding at the coarsest setting, then SIEVING the fines through a 1000micron mesh, then regrinding it at the desired setting. That might have your desired effects without the problems of creating extra fines (since you sieved it away) and not having to worry about the slow grinding.

[@user-om8uj3uq2e]

Same here, I recently found about Jianing Du, and I heard from her this first, I might try it to my beans

[@chadrobert116]

I don't even have a grinder, why do I keep watching these lmao

[@bertocentofante]

Dude I love this stuff! Will I ever try it, probably not but at least I know about it now. Thank you for making your curiosity public, this channel keeps getting better !

[@nibsabbath1825]

I just tried this with my morning brew. The results are definitely interesting and noteworthy. I use a plastic v60 pourover, Baratza Virtuoso, and a locally roasted Colombian coffee, prepared using your pourover method. On the Baratza, I typically find myself grinding somewhere between 16 and 20 on the dial, depending on the beans, but for this experiment I took it down to 10. I performed the experiment by dropping 2-3 beans in at a time and letting them grind the whole way throigh. 20g beans in, 250g liquid out. The Virtuoso is pretty consistent as is, but I was genuinely surprised to see how much more consistent the grind particles were. As for taste, the resulting cup was just about perfect for this roast. It was significantly juicier and more balanced then my previous brews.

[@t23wang]

this reminds me of Jia Ning Du's winning recipe for 2019 world brewer's cup. Granted it was a pourover not espresso but she also grounded her coffee twice, once coarse and then again finer.

[@SteveFullerBikes]

I was wondering if this was applicable to those of us who are primarily pour over people. His comments about the end of the grind being coarser make me want to give the "slower bean feed" option a try.

[@Fatbutnotflat]

Also her intention was to remove silver skin using Commandante grinder first.

[@danielpincus221]

I took the challenge. Brew Method: James's Ultimate French Press Baratza Encore grinder set at 12 39g Intelligentsia El Gallo Peru blend 656g NYC water Brita Filtered I turned on the grinder, then slowly fed the beans into the chamber. I didn't time it, but it did take longer, though not as long as I expected. Result: The foam sitting on top of the cake was a bit smaller than usual. More central rear-tongue engaged in the flavor. Less complex in a nice way. Sweeter and cleaner taste. No doubt, fewer fines. The acid test, so to speak, was the 2nd cup, some 20 minutes later. No overextraction and souring. Next time, I will carefully inspect the ground coffee. The only negatives: extra work, time and noise. Conclusion: Big improvement. and worth the effort.

[@arathorn8]

So no 2nd grind, just slow feeding the beans to the grinder, yields a big improvement. Interesting.

[@SentriSable]

Everyone: NO you cant just regrind ground coffee! James: Coffee Grinder go brrrrr

[@benjaminwilliams2859]

*coffee grinder go burrrr

[@mattjanzen2344]

I'm wondering how this ties in to grinding at a colder temperature - if part of the equation is that the grinding process inherently increases the temperature of the beans, and breaking up that process might allow the bean temperature to come back down. Also, consider the process of bruising mint and other herbs. Damaging the cell walls releases bitter compounds while only bruising the exterior allows the oils to be extracted more sweetly. Perhaps the extended grinding of whole beans when the hopper is full serves to extract more bitter compounds. Take a page from Dave Arnold and employ liquid nitrogen.

[@Stoney3K]

There's been a long-standing myth that grinding frozen espresso beans will lead to a more consistent grind. I wonder if someone actually ever tested it in a more scientific manner.

[@hans-martinlauer2959]

This was exactly the thought, which came up in my mind when I watched this video: What impact has the (increased) temperature, when the beans are "stressed" in the grinder for a longer duration? And vice versa: Could this effect be compensated by using deep frozen coffee beans? Any experiences with that?

[@pmmp7641]

I've ground beans very slowly on the coarsest setting in my Encore and reground very slowly three clicks lower than usual for V60. It worked! It was more uniform, and the cup was cleaner and sweeter!

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Regrinding is becoming popular, and there is a hand grinder made for regrinding coffee :) MOMENTEM

[@AM2PMReviews]

Me on the phone with customer service...🤓 "James told me to do it!"

[@williamredner5979]

I didn't realize regrinding could cause problems, I'd never thought about it before. Last week accidently ground some coffee with the setting at it's coarsest and just threw it back in and turned it way down. I forget what I was using, maybe the Areopress, but it turned out okay, it wasn't undrinkable like a lot of my recent experiments.

[@LordDemonos]

I've been a subscriber ever since I saw your french press method. I've grown to have a much better appreciation for my coffee and am always trying something new. Videos like these are absolutely fascinating! Keep up the good work!

[@brettfuller6603]

I am seeing people complaining about how this experiment is amazing but so time consuming. Just buy a sloth and train it to drop beans into a hopper - great coffee, saves tons of time, and a new pet.

[@Call-me-Al]

I personally would prefer building a Rube Goldberg machine over a sloth. Especially as the former can include a sloth or a dozen if one wanted. And as you know, the more sloths the merrier!

[@Mrch33ky]

Now that's using the Ole Noodle!

[@pedrolanna1551]

Thanks to this, now my little nephews have a job.

[@Karreth]

At my summer house we have an old wall mounted coffee grinder that's set up for grinding very coarse coffee for boiled coffee (or whatever it is called in English). We've found that if we run the beans through twice, it produces coffee that's perfect for filter coffee. Tastes great. Though everything tends to taste good there, sea, sun and vacation sets a great mood.

[@MirrorCoffeeRoasters]

A surprising result is an understatement haha. This is so strange yet it is what it is. If the shot was tasty then it's hard to say otherwise. Thanks for the video James!

[@JohnLee-ud8tw]

Wonderful video, James. I love the content you produce. Now I’m waiting for an inventor to produce a two stage, single dosing grinder. Can you imagine? First chamber produces the “unusable” coarse grounds that it is slowly fed downward into a second grinding chamber to be made into espresso grounds. Sounds crazy, and expensive, but what is coffee without ridiculous innovation and technology pushing the boundaries?

[@GregHall66]

I’ve been watching your videos for a couple of weeks now and I have to say that you have changed the way I look at coffee and how I am going to brew it as well!

[@davidfriend5808]

In a way I've been doing this with my pourovers recently. Stuck at home with my basic hand grinder, I've been sifting the boulders and then regrinding those in order to get a more uniform grind and not waste beans. I do notice it doesn't quite get as fine when I regrind the boulders, but I could change to a finer setting for the second pass on the boulders. Great insight and video!

[@Namulous]

James, thank you so much for sharing this. I tried using my comandante ironheart hand grinder tilted at an angle to limit the feed rate. Huge difference in grind and taste. Used to do this to decrease resistance when the lido 3 was my daily driver per orphan espresso's recommendation.

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

What if there is a hand grinder with two burr sets designed for regrinding coffee? MOMENTEM

[@Semiosphere]

Seeing James put his finger in the coffee grinder for quite a long time while talking was just kinda scary.

[@garygreene8551]

As a practical approach/experiment while making my pour over this morning I fed my Baratza Virtuoso a teaspoon at a time, placed cover on to keep beans or fragments from hopping out, listened for burrs to clear and then added more. Took longer as expected but not painfully so. Grind was coarser and more uniform. The burrs were also much cleaner when all was done. I then made a pot and 2 clicks finer than usual seems to work pretty well. I like the technique and will continue grinding this way trying different settings. Thank you James for all of your helpful information given in such an enjoyable way. I look forward to what you’ll come up with next.

[@tireld17]

i'm loving your cool intros. First, the zoom in on all the instant coffee types before exploding on the ground. Second, this portal looking, in through the top, out through the bottom flow? So creative!

[@danielpincus221]

I continue to be happy to report that the time spent putting ten or so beans into the chamber at a time yields a superior brew. When it's my time to go, I will not regret the perhaps few extra days in total it took me to grind coffee properly. Those will be remembered as grinding days well spent.

[@Rekmeyata]

What? there won't be coffee in Heaven? are you sure?

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Morning coffee becomes afternoon coffee because of regrinding LOL, how about a manual grinder with two burr sets? MOMENTEM

[@UncleSkiBum]

I can just see it now "this coffee has been triple ground for a smoother flavour" 🤣 will be like tripl filtered vodka etxy

[@Sojourner88]

Here comes the $2000 grinder. 🤣

[@Call-me-Al]

Alice: "This coffee has been ground at a rate of 0.1g/s!" Bob: "Well ours was ground at 0.07g/s!!" Charlie: "LOL, how quaint, all the high end brands do 0.01g/s these days."

[@Stoney3K]

@@Call-me-Al "These beans were stale before they could all pass through our grinder." Not a flaw, but a unique selling point.

[@Call-me-Al]

@@Stoney3K no no, not stale, "oxygen dry aged". Gotta get the terminology right ;D

[@RayCornett]

Great video. I thought I was the only one who reground grounds. I do not as of yet have an electric burr grinder but do have an old style traditional burr grinder with a hand crank. Once I got it dialed in and learned exactly where to set it to get each grind I wanted I began regrinding commercially purchased coffee as necessary with great results.

[@danielkbishop]

I tried this out with my cheaper oxo grinder for this morning's v60. Dropped the grind setting from 7 to 6. Slowly fed in beans. Got a fantastic cup. Looking forward to playing with this technique more! Thanks!

[@johannesbrahms9528]

This pushed my morning brew from "pretty good" to "excellent." Feeding my Baratza Virtuoso (old model) whole beans at a slow pace definitely made a difference, and even more so did feeding in coursely ground beans. Gone is the hollow taste from my morning brew and right up front is all the tasty goodness. This is now a part of my daily routine.

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

How about we make your grinding routine more pleasant and short, would you like to try MOMENTEM, a dual-burr hand grinder?

[@johannesbrahms9528]

@@IMNOTABARISTA I'm down.

[@ColinRobinson666]

As an industrial mill operator, mill feed rate effects the mill gap because of quill lash; the slop in the mechanism that adjusts the gap between rotor and stator. The higher the throughput or load on the mill, the more the gap between rotor and stator increases, thus when feeding slowly, product will be more finely ground because less load is not forcing the grinding surfaces apart. The quill lash is the measure of the difference in gap between grinding surfaces completely unloaded versus loaded. The density of the material being ground can also effect this delta between where the grind is set and how course it ends up in reality one the mill is under load.

[@mberghahn]

Awesome James, and it makes so much sense! I already had a feeling that as my grinder start to accumulate coffee on the exit, the result starts getting finer and finer, now I know why, and that I´m not crazy. Just have to clean the grinder more often, maybe get a new one with lower retention. And I definitely will feed the beans slower. Thanks, I´m already drinking a slightly better coffee. Glad to part of your Patreon.

[@siddharthkrish]

Thanks a lot, James (& Tom) for adding another few minutes to my coffee routine. You mentioned in another video that buying an espresso machine at home is because you want another hobby. Trying all these things is part of having a hobby... I did two experiments, 1st - ground coffee twice & put it in slowly both times, 2nd - ground it once very slowly and OH MY GOD! I will not be able to go back to just dumping the coffee in the hopper ever again. The coffee is sweeter and fruitier. Is it the best coffee I've got from my machine? no... but it's so much more consistent & Oh so close to the greatest shot I've pulled. I prefer the 2nd method, i.e. putting coffee in very slowly (took me 90 seconds to put in 15 g). I did have to grind the coffee finer than I normally do. I don't mind that at all, I've been unhappy about the coarser setting in general for a while now, finer would choke the machine often, but this time, no choking at all. I'm using the Breville smart grinder pro with the Breville express. The puck was prepped with a distributor & a calibrated tamper (I'm still far away from being able to tamp properly without it).

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Awesome happy Sid K :D regrinding now is possible even on hand grinders, check MOMENTEM, dual-burr hand grinder makes regrinding easy and fast :D

[@SebatRavhin]

In the end, it is all about grinding the beans with a high uniformity and consistency - a very narrow, but high gauss curve. Everything you do, needs to be better for at least one, and equal for the other. I am very curious to try this with my mini moca but I would also like to use the grind size software you used earlier to see if you can see a difference instead of tasting it (I trust your taste buds more than mine). We could even do a small design of experiments to see how robust the system is - yes, I gonna try!

[@MarkEichin]

Yeah, after *making* coffee with it, the next thing to try is either filter sampling, or just "spread one gram out on some white paper and photograph it" and get some idea of the grind size distribution. (A single-bean-at-a-time grinder could have some very different design approaches...)

[@hans-martinlauer2959]

Let me know the results! Very curious....

[@arthurskudra50]

Greetings from Canada!! I think you're on to something here James!! I just tried out slowly putting a measured (18 g) amount of beans of one of my favourite locally roasted single origin coffees (B.F. Crow El Paraiso) into my Baratza Virtuoso grinder, and biases aside, I gotta say it made what is usually an impressive cup of coffee noticeably better!! I will have to experiment more!! It was very apparent that the grind consistency was the best I have ever seen from this grinder, I had less "fines" accumulate on my paper filter, and the bloom seemed a bit better as well. But first, I think my grinder deserves a thorough cleaning this weekend!! My procedure: 18 g coffee beans, Baratza Virtuoso grind setting of "14", slowly added the beans to the grinder while running over a period of about 45 seconds. Aeropress inverted method, filtered water just off a running boil, 50 g poured over the ground coffee for a 35 second bloom, then another 150 g of water added, at the 60 second mark I stirred 10 x, let stand for 30 seconds, used an Aesir paper filter, squeezed out what air was trapped at top, then flipped the aeropress and extracted the coffee into a mug until the 2:30 mark. Added 50 g more hot water to the mug, then poured it all into an Avensi Alto glass to enjoy!! Gotta try this again!!!! :) bfcrowcoffee.com/product/el-paraiso/ www.aubadecoffee.info/online-store baratza.com/

[@jeffsullinger9565]

I made my afternoon coffee right after this video. I used only 5 beans at a time in my hario slim plus. The grind was still no where near being uniform but the cup of coffee tasted noticeably better than normal. There was absolutely no bitterness and it was much sweeter.

[@alexanderreynolds6610]

Instructions unclear, I poured bloom sludge in my grinder

[@frankfang9304]

You probably did it the wrong way. I think it should be the leftover sludge lol.

[@Stoney3K]

Now I understand the "KEEP WATER AWAY FROM GRINDER" warning that is so blatantly displayed on my Barista Express. I wonder if I could regrind espresso though...

[@pawenowakowski4209]

You made my day with this comment man 🤣

[@yoditonugrahacky765]

Du Jianing used similar technique on her 2019 World Brewers Cup winning recipe.

[@garychisholm2418]

I've been doing this with my Porlex Mini for a while. Same grinding setting twice, it's a MASSIVE difference in consistency for such a basic grinder.

[@YourLocalGuatemalan]

I tried this with my v60 just now. I preemptively set my grinder finer in anticipation for a drastic change. It seems I didn’t set it fine enough -maybe one or two clicks short- because this method provided a much courser overall grind than I was expecting. Still, there were visually less fines in my brew and the grind seemed consistent enough. My biggest finding was how my final product -my drink- was noticeably less acidic than normal. It’s important to note here, my brew time was also 40 seconds shorter than usual. This could be due to not grinding fine enough but I certainly don’t feel the coffee is under extracted. It has a very pleasant mouthfeel to it and many of the origin characteristics still shine through. All in all, the coffee is still delicious. I may have to continue to play around with this while keeping notes to truly compare and contrast. I do find the staggering difference in grind size to be pretty interesting, though. Perhaps this may even benefit from pouring the beans in slower since I maintained a slow, yet moderate, pace for the sake of time. I’m sure you’ll reach diminishing returns at some point or maybe you’ll invent a grinder that does one bean at a time, first. Either way I’m glad you’ve introduced us to this new area of technique. It opens the door for even more nuance in an already over complicated process...and I love it ☕️

[@ruthersplat]

Just had a go - full beans fed slowly. Grounds were visably coarser and I pulled an 8 second shot rather than my usual 25-26. It was underextracted (as expected) but still tasted ok and I think I also got more sweetness but you may have just made me imagine that with your analysis. Will try again at a finer setting.

[@baselsalam]

He did mention you have to grind finder, but the uniformity you'll get will be improved.

[@twinkmaster2]

For your test with filter coffee could you see with the kruve sifter, if grinding like this improves grind uniformity?

[@wallacezeng8643]

Thanks for all the awesome videos James! I'm currently using the Wilfa Uniform and brewer , I managed to go 5 clicks finer and got good results. Flow rate was similar to previous brewings and taste of coffee has improved. Much sweeter beverage and more subtle notes are coming through. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Regrinding theory works, tested by many coffee experts and homebrewers. The result also depends on the coffee and the roast profile, but MOMENTEM is here, with two burr sets built into one small hand grinder, it will revolutionize the hand grinding industry.

[@jasper915]

Haven't reach this advanced stage of the coffee rabbit hole yet, might come back in a couple of months. Thanks though James!

[@brekkoh]

James new scientific method, take something we've done one way for decades, assert it could be wrong, then spend 15 minutes proving the answer is... possibly.

[@MirrorCoffeeRoasters]

He does it far too well.

[@r_bear]

That's a pretty standard thing in science, actually 😅

[@JaxMerrick]

@@r_bear I was about to say, isn't that a core concept of "null hypothesis"?

[@stirfryjedi]

I just love how "taste" remains the standard of measure with James

[@Call-me-Al]

@@stirfryjedi what else could be?

[@parsleysprinkler6477]

Back when i was competing in a local filter coffee throwdown, I was told by my instructor to regrind my coffee. The purpose was to remove the chaffs so it doesn't bring any unwanted flavours into the coffee. We ground our coffee in the courser setting, blow away the chaffs and reground it to the desired setting, and the result was... negligible, I would say.

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Depends on the coffee and your brew methods?

[@obedcheung]

Hi James, i saw your video earlier and decided to try this technique on hand grinder and v60 filter coffee, i used the setting i normally do and the brew time was HALF of what it should normally take! Interesting finding!!

[@dahlinsprilla8081]

Wow! This is a game changer for me. Been doing this for the past 3 days now and my coffee (v60) is way cleaner, sweeter and a nicer acidity. I have a wilfa uniform grinder and had my grind setting around 26, but with this method I can brew with the setting at 22 with less bitterness and more sweetness than the original setting.. just wow!!

[@maximeveron1111]

Just did a nice cup of coffee in a V60 slow fed beans into my grinder nearly bean by bean at the usual grind settings. I would like to not have tried that... Because it made a great cup of coffee, if not one of the best one!

[@pp-xu3rm]

which grinder do you have?

[@JanPopieluch]

I would try this on my Comandante but I'm too lazy to do it :p Anyone ready for the challenge? :D

[@gpmenga]

Single grind, right?

[@maximeveron1111]

@@pp-xu3rm I don't know if the brand is particularly good or popular but its a Graef electric grinder. Does a decent grind for me (no espresso machine)

[@maximeveron1111]

@@gpmenga single grind pass yes. Though I'm thinking (to avoid jamming) if I could not do first pass in the electric and second pass in hand grinder...

[@stevedimitriadis]

What if you ground coarsely, blew away chaff and skin, then reground...

[@jerther_]

Wow! I had coffee beans that produced significantly more fines than usual in my already-not-so-great Capresso Infinity, so I tried feeding the beans in very slowly and the result is like night and day! Almost no fine! This combined with the water spray trick, I feel I now have a very decent grinder, and our brews are significantly better! Thank you so much! ♥️

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Regrinding is possible :D

[@_boltspeedman_]

This video came at the perfect time for me! I use a Bodum burr grinder (not sure of the model). Recently, it has started producing roughly french press size grounds where I normally grind for pour over. My 'fix' was to slowly add in the grounds a second time, at a slightly smaller grind setting than normal. This of course required me to adjust my pour over a bit, but I feel the resulting cup was more flavorful and balanced than before. Even my wife agrees. This has only been going on for a few days, but now I'm curious to further test how this affects my brew times and taste. As always, thanks for the great videos!

[@brekkoh]

Please let the answer be 'no' I don't have the time to grind by hand twice every morning.

[@hjaltihjartarson]

Hand grinding is already slower and should have a cleaner throughput already I would assume. Will it do a difference? You should try it!

[@tysonking1805]

Hjalti Hjartarson I think it has to do with the coffee in the chamber rather than speed

[@NeoAkira101]

@@hjaltihjartarson Did you even watch the video? Cause you clearly didn't.

[@454Casull]

@@NeoAkira101 Well, we don't know what the impact of the burr speed is. Maybe this "undesirable" regrinding effect is negligible at slower speeds such as those you might produce in a hand grinder.

[@hjaltihjartarson]

@@tysonking1805 Yeah, you are right :)

[@thwifty]

The 2019 WBrC champion Jianing Du mentioned that grinding twice is good and that was what she did in the championship competition.

[@nedimgoktepe9973]

That's an intriguing topic! I think the 'ideal' grind size is something constant and this is another way to reach that goal with a different grind setting. However, slowly feeding the burr may increase grinding constancy which greatly contributes to the extraction quality (hence sweeter coffee from less dust) and is the only variable that we cannot dial-in (if you don't stiff it afterward). I will try to 'popcorning' with a slightly finer setting since there won't be any excess coffee to put weıght to the grinder.

[@farcenter]

Your channel is a master class on how to make quality content on any subject. Cheers!

[@no_activity]

I would be interested in knowing what the grounds look like under a microscope. The geometry of the grounds almost has to be different in some way.

[@daisy180709]

James` next experiment surely ???

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Yes, it must be different, waiting for something to share that experiment

[@y2kkmac]

Interesting, I recently started using my grandma's old manual grinder to make Turkish coffee. The only real way to use it is to hold it horizontally and knock a few beans into the burrs while continuously turning the handle. Too much at once and the grinder just seizes up and is impossible to turn. However, it only took fingertip amounts of grip on the handle once I got the hang of feeding beans at a slow enough rate. Not exactly a scientific report, that's just what this video made me think of.

[@anwarulhakim9066]

Love that I stumbled upon your KZbin channel, I used to subscribe to Square Miles coffee subscription and love the sense of design and class put on the finishes of the packaging. And now, get to know the actual man behind it and learn a lot more here is great! My setup probably can't cater for the experiment, but glad to learn new thing.

[@rikmcrae]

I have run filter ground coffee through on a Turkish setting in an emergency and it turned out very well. No better than grinding from whole beans but certainly a perfectly acceptable cup.

[@MattPerger]

Roller mills triple stage grinding before it was even cool.

[@dnebdal]

The Austrian/Hungarian roller mills for grain were invented in the early 1800s, I believe? (They were the first mills to give fine, uniform, wheat flour, and are the main reason Vienna was where a lot of modern pastries and white bread was invented.)

[@moonlightbuildscy4325]

JUST had this question this morning and then hoffmeister dunks on me with this

[@squirrelzar]

Awesome video, just recently found the channel and have been loving the journey to better coffee

[@bradleyreed5762]

The heavens opened up here just North of Bristol in the UK so I decided to give this a try. Unusually for me I watched the entire video and followed the instructions. The espresso is delicious. Love the videos!! Thank you...!!!

[@ThePlayahans]

James, you are such an MVP for giving away free Coffee for people who appreciate it but potentially cannot afford it right now. That is such a nice move of you! Luckily I live above the store of a local coffee roaster which is really affordable but my god, I think you really make some people very happy with your coffee packages. Btw: We are still waiting for the Tiramisu-Shenanigans.. I hope you havent forgotten ;)

[@HomunculusPrime]

Hey James, just a question - do you think this experiment would translate to hand grinders? Would grinding slower using the hand grinder produce a similar effect?

[@alitavassoli3717]

Me too

[@MosaTrio]

Same here! Eager to try this on my HG one.

[@AlvinAriesta]

I only tried once, my coffee was with milk, and it was less bitter. Still far from any conclusion though.

[@olivtrees8749]

I don't see why not. Just load the hand grinder with a few beans and grind them before putting in the next few beans, etc, etc. Would probably be easier on your arm muscles too.

[@JC-fj7oo]

I know a lot of hand grinders don't like to grind espresso/turkish level grinds in one pass. You can do it but the beans don't feed well and you end up with a lot of work and fines. What a lot of people do is pre-grind their beans coarse (could use a cheap grinder or even a blade mill for this) and those smaller pieces will feed into the burrs faster and easier, which pushes out grinds faster so they don't "regrind" And this makes sense. Asking any device to turn a half-inch bean into a powder in one step is a tall order. But crushing beans into coarse grounds? simple. Grinding coarse grounds finer? fairly simple. And with the ease of cleaning out a hand grinder, Why not test it? For grinders that are easily adjustable, you will probably spend the same time grinding because that first coarse grind will go very fast. And the second grind should be quicker and easier than normal.

[@jononthejourney]

Imagine this relates to keeping the hoppers full for espresso preparation to keep a consistent grind. Have always seen a noticeable change in particle size and shot times as the hopper gets more empty causing the need for finer grind adjustment.

[@marcusannegarn8497]

Interesting results with the second experiment. The general consensus is that the Niche Flow Control Disk made a noticeable positive impact on grind consistency

[@mrankitku]

My moka pot arrived today. Brewed exactly the same way as Mr. Hoffman taught.