The 3 Wise Men: Ancient Magicians?

[@shodan658]

I was raised in an Arab Christian family, and the Arabic translation of the bible uses the word "Majoos" for the three wise men. "Majoos" in Arabic is the term used to describe Zoroastrians, even till this day. So to me, and probably all Arab Christians who were raised reading the Arabic translation, the three wise men were always Zoroastrians l.

[@Dr_Binx]

That’s awesome lol

[@SunnyAquamarine2]

​@Dr_Kats I knew it! Zoroastrians have a lot of good stuff.

[@orboakin8074]

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[@markjosephbacho5652]

That's interesting!! Wonder if. Abrahamic religions have any influences or connections with Zoroastrianism. 🤔

[@orboakin8074]

@@markjosephbacho5652 oh, funny you mention that. They actually do have strong links to Zoroastrianism. A few ones I believe, are the concept of monotheism that was really prominent in Zoroastrianism and that began to be included in early Judaism and later Christianity and Islam. There is also the concept of an all powerful God on the side of good and an all powerful evil adversary that Zoroastrianism also had. Plus, there is the fact that Jesus himself was influenced by both Greek philosophy and tenets of Zoroastrianism, as were many of the reformist Jews of his time. As a Christian, that stuff has always fascinated me.

[@satansjihad6353]

I live in Brazil, and here these characters are indeed known as the Three Magician Kings.

[@llswol2]

I think the better translation is "The three mage kings"

[@thestalost8486]

In Romania we call them "The three magi from the sunrise"

[@deltaarena2447]

Yeeeees, it's Hermanubis, best god ever hahahahaha

[@emmanuelfernandes5610]

Eu ia falar isso! hahah

[@Silvia_Arienti]

In Italy, we call them the Magi Kings

[@zibarozibaro1875]

As a Persian historian I agree 100% Nice job

[@nayrtnartsipacify]

"I'm a religious scholar"- reza azlan

[@Hermesborugerdian]

@@nayrtnartsipacify Literally F that guy! The Persian community hates him, he didn’t dedicates his time to stupid religion instead of focusing on Persian history

[@sinaazararya7271]

@@nayrtnartsipacify 🤣🤣

[@englishmonorrosana788]

So maybe you can clarify the real origin of the magi... Thank you

[@lindafoxx1659]

@@englishmonorrosana788 they were from Media and king Cyrus had conquered Media and brought them to Persia.

[@campbmichael01]

The story makes me think of the Tibetan Buddhist practice of going out looking for the new Buddha after the death of the old Buddha. The Magi leave their homeland looking for signs to find a new spiritual leader.

[@TheEvolver311]

No they were just famous for being able to divine the stars

[@astraeusgodofthestars676]

Wow, it makes sense

[@jounik8980]

Jesus was a budhist monk

[@nomesa7374]

THere are strong connections between Buddha and Zarathustra's teachings.

[@anime.soundtracks]

or the new avatar

[@alvinlaiman9890]

A close reading of the text will reveal many popular misconceptions of this story. 1. The number of magi was not recorded, probs wasnt 3. 2. They didnt "follow" the star. The star was an astrological sign rather than a road map. They were looking for a Jewish king and went straight to the royal capital where they got directions to Bethlehem. 3. They were used in the text as a political critique of Herod "where is the one born king of the Jews" (i.e. tell us where the real king is). 4. The story of the magi alludes and parallels other jewish traditions of foreign religious priests paying homage to Yah. (E.g. Melchizedek and Abraham, Jethro and Moses.)

[@TorianTammas]

Alvin Laiman - The magoi are Persian priests who practice the art to read the will of the goddesses and gods by watching the stars. This is a practice that is punishable by death according to god’s law in the old testament. So, the author did not know or not care that Jews would never use some heathen priests to give a claim of kingship legitimacy. It works perfectly fine for a Greek/ Roman audience who knew that great persons were announced by special signs. It is a story about legitimacy which is so filled with false claims. Josef is claimed to have followed a Roman Census at a time Rome did not control this territory. So, it is nonsense claim. The story claims that Josef descends from Bethlehem, but he has not a single relative and he does not own anything at this place, furthermore nobody knows him or his family. He is a total stranger.

[@alvinlaiman9890]

TorianTammas 1. Where is it written that they were Persian priests? I mean, they might well be, but the story doesnt say. They could also be Jewish diaspora who rose through the ranks like Daniel. But that is all speculation. 2. The author, Matthew was a Jew and the structure of of the book parallels the Torah and frequently quotes the Tanakh. His whole point is that there is a new Torah and the fulfilment of Israel's calling. So he did care about Jewishness a whole lot. 3. The Tanakh makes frequent references to special signs that will accompany special people. Most notably, all the messianic prophecies. 4. Rome had control over pretty much all of the known world at the time. Herod the Great was half-roman and paid tribute to Caesar. Rome established this since the fall of the Maccabean revolt a few decades earlier 5. Where is it written the Joseph (Yosef) had no family? This is a modern addition to lend more suspense to the story based on a mistranslation of the greek word 'kataluma' meaning 'guest room' as in "there was no room in the guest room". It could mean an inn but in context it refers to a guest room in a family home, as in there were so many people back for the census the family house could not fit Joseph and his family comfortably.

[@TorianTammas]

Alvin Laiman - Magoi is a term for a Persian priests which were reading the stars as they interpreted the wills of the gods through it. The old testament forbids to read in the stars and it should be punished by death. 3. How often does the Tanakh mention persian priests aka magoi follwing a star? 4. You have no idea what a roman census is. It is done in a territory the Romans control as in direct rule with roman officials and not a clientele King. So your claim does not even touch the subject at hand. 5. We have zero evidence for a census of Augustus happened at that time in the whole Roman empire as it is claimed. This is just a story element as so many more.

[@victorrene3852]

TorianTammas Doesn't say they were Persian priest though they could have been Jewish and learnt from Daniel the Prophet in Babylon (they came from the East}. The OT has many prophecies of the coming of Christ. The census could have surely tooken place without a problem, there was more than one census, Acts 5:37 mentions "he times of census taking" Josephus mention a census of Quirinius in about A.D. 6/7 which would be too late regarding the birth of Christ but Josephus could have mentioned the second census by that time, Luke had to be aware of the second one, Luke might have mentioned a prior census. I see no problem there.

[@Amateur0Visionary]

@@victorrene3852 we don't know the precise year Jesus' birth. The best estimates range from about 8 BC to AD 10. Matthew and Mark most likely did not write Matthew or Mark. The authors of the Synoptic Gospels are unknown. Over time, they became traditionally attributed to said apostles. Merry Christmas to all!!

[@ashleyc8303]

Well this is interesting. In spanish bibles the three wise men are actually called Los tres Reyes Magos which would translate to three magical kings so nothing about being wise. Just thought I would add that to this been seeing some of your past videos.

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

Huh, that's really interesting! I wish English translations retained this (though some do say "Magi")

[@ashleyc8303]

Perhaps it's because who ever translated it figured it would throw people off if it said Magi vs wise men. Since magic was suppose to be Devils work. So, culture might have something to do with how things are translated.

[@TheSolfilm]

The same in french ; "Les Rois Mages".

[@henriquegomes9326]

The same in portuguese: Os três Reis-Magos

[@nzsl368]

"What does the Bible say about the three wise men (Magi)?" We assume that there were three wise men because of the three gifts that were given: gold, incense, and myrrh (Matthew 2:11). However, the Bible does not say there were only three wise men. There could have been many more. Tradition says that there were three and that their names were Gaspar/Caspar, Melchior, and Balthasar/Balthazar, but since the Bible does not say, we have no way of knowing whether the tradition is accurate. It is a common misconception that the wise men visited Jesus at the stable on the night of His birth. In fact, the wise men came days, months, or possibly even years later. That is why Matthew 2:11 says the wise men visited and worshiped Jesus in a house, not at the stable. We know that the magi were wise men from "the East," most likely Persia, or modern-day Iran. This means the wise men traveled 800 to 900 miles to see the Christ child. Most likely, the magi knew of the writings of the prophet Daniel, who in time past had been the chief of the court seers in Persia. Daniel 9:24-27 includes a prophecy which gives a timeline for the birth of the Messiah. Also, the magi may have been aware of the prophecy of Balaam (who was from the town of Pethor on the Euphrates River near Persia) in Numbers 24:17. Balaam's prophecy specifically mentions a “star coming out of Jacob.” The wise men were guided to look for the King of the Jews by a miraculous stellar event, the “Star of Bethlehem,” which they called “His star” (Matthew 2:2). They came to Jerusalem and asked concerning the birth of Christ, and they were directed to Bethlehem (Matthew 2:4-8). They followed God’s guidance joyfully (Matthew 2:10). When they arrived in Bethlehem, they gave costly gifts to Jesus and worshiped Him. God warned them in a dream against returning to Herod, so, in defiance of the king, they left Judea by another route (Matthew 2:12). So, the magi were men who 1) read and believed God's Word, 2) sought Jesus, 3) recognized the worth of Christ, 4) humbled themselves to worship Jesus, and 5) obeyed God rather than man. They were truly wise men! www.gotquestions.org

[@pheebsbee1280]

I urge anyone to read the comments section of Religion for Breakfast as it is as dynamic and interesting as the videos.

[@melledevries4685]

My favourite supporting characters are the various farm animals that are present in some retellings for children

[@diedertspijkerboer]

To me, it was obvious that the three "wise" men were astrologers. Any Bible reader could have derived this fact from the text which says that they saw a new star in the east and concluded this indicated the birth of a king. Funnily enough, there are various references against astrologers in the old testament.

[@roncarpenter7240]

They probably weren't men, but stars. They're (and still are) aligned with (or follow) the dominant star, Sirius, at the time of the winter solstice. Pure astronomy/astrology.

[@TheEvolver311]

@@roncarpenter7240 naw just characters used to emphasize the significance of his birth.

[@kellydalstok8900]

The bible doesn’t have a problem with anything as long as it fits the narrative. Hypocrisy is a feature not a bug.

[@Ezullof]

@@roncarpenter7240 Do you have anything to back up this interpretation? Because as likely as it sounds to you, it doesn't mean anything without proper sources.

[@roncarpenter7240]

@@Ezullof Sure I have something to back it up; it's called logic. You only need a decent telescope to trace the location of particular stars at that time of year. I might ask you the same question: What do you have to back up the Abrahamic interpretation of the virgin birth, Noah, parting of the Red Sea, etc? The best you can come up with is that it's in the Bible, Torah or koran. But there's no concrete evidence to support the validity of that bs.

[@timothyodaniell9119]

I'm amazed at how well you speak and your keen intellect. You have obviously spent several thousand hours in classroom instruction and you would make a great professor yourself. well done!

[@jacopoarmini7889]

in italian they are called the "mage kings" and are often referred to as astrologists and mages.

[@truthseeker6584]

Thank you for that interesting information - good to know that the "magoi" not only in the Spanish traductions but also in Italy were referred to as astrologists and mages. Makes the video even more convincing.

[@Silvia_Arienti]

It's actually "Re Magi"=Magi Kings. The magi were the Zoroastrian priests

[@lindafoxx1659]

@@truthseeker6584 you may want to seek more truth.

[@EjPwned]

Same in Spanish. They’re called los reyes magos

[@CadaverSplatter]

Great stuff, glad you're doing these. I am a student of Assyriology, and if I may offer a small detail.The Neo-Babylonian version of the word Magi (since it is in fact a loan from Old-Persion) includes the Case ending (as do all Akkadian words, except most proper-names), which is lexically rendered on the nominative as "Magushu" (Accus. Magusha; Genit. Magushi.) Anyway, thanks for doing these, I love all of the ancient world, even outside of my particular field. Keep going.

[@alfredthegreatkingofwessex6838]

“These characters are known as the magician kings” Latin Americans “you… you didn’t know that?”

[@dipheobes4010]

FR I was like "wise man? Who tf calls it that they are magos!"

[@thebanished87]

At a Christmas play , my teacher gave me the role of Magi... I took it seriously for the rest my life.

[@darrylviljoen6227]

Where did that path lead you?

[@thebanished87]

@@darrylviljoen6227 I became one of them or like them

[@Theshamanomar]

The three Wiseman known as the three kings or the three magi, are Zoroastrian priests/Shaman’s. The high priest or the high magi, worked with a somatic medicine known as “Hoama”, a dmt based tea chemically identical to Ayahuasca.

[@CocTheElf]

Here in Mexico we call them "Los Tres Reyes Magos", which translates to: The Three King-Mages. We even have a special holiday where they bring gifts to children.

[@arx3516]

Same in Italy, but it's the Befana who brings the gifts.

[@joysoyo2416]

Catholics

[@chuckyfire8439]

.🎉. The start of crispr

[@kaloarepo288]

It has been suggested that the story of the 3 wise men in some of the gospels was inspired by the visit of king Tiridates of Armenia to Rome in the reign of the emperor Nero.Armenia was then Zoroastrian and it was the bone of contention between the Roman and Parthian empires which also was Zoroastrian.The embassy stirred up a lot of interest in Rome and may have also given rise to the Mithraic cult, also of Persian origins which had some parallels to Christianity.An Indo-Parthian king was called Gondaphares which may have provided the name for Caspar one of the magi or 3 wise men.The Gospel of Thomas mentions this king as St Thomas was believed to have been one of the evangelisers in the Indian region.

[@vanapple1]

In addition to the three magi in the Gospel of Matthew, the writer of Acts tells the story of Simon Magus. According to Acts 8:9-13, the apostle Peter and the magus Simon both performed “great miracles” (δυνάμεις μεγάλας) that “amazed” (ἐξίστημι) the people. Bible translators often fudge this parallel -- the KJV renders the same Greek words as ‘amazing miracles’ when done by Peter but ‘bewitching sorcery’ for Simon.

[@nschamp7powerboxingseries]

Magic is demonic. Get to Jesus

[@joysoyo2416]

Same Simon Peter who divorced Jesus with a triple talaq?

[@kellydalstok8900]

Just cheap magic trick. Pity James Randi wasn’t around at the time.

[@chibibumblebee3190]

@@joysoyo2416?? Lol what?

[@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745]

​@@nschamp7powerboxingseries isnt Jesus a magician?

[@patmullarkey7659]

They are my favorites in the story. Where I live they are the main characters in holiday events. No Santa at the mall but one of the Wise Men. Decorations are of them, as the parade.

[@alexandercoffman8319]

They are some of my Favorites as well, if not my favorite Bible-Characters.

[@Belnazz]

In Spanish they're called "Reyes Magos", translated: "Mage/Magician Kings". Just a little piece of data. [BTW: I really like your channel, I'm a History student, so I appreciate your show preatty much]

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

That's so cool. I didn't know that. Mage King is a much better name. Glad you like the channel!

[@PeloquinDavid]

Same in French ("rois mages") and, I presume, in other Romance languages.

@@ReligionForBreakfast Same in catalan: reis mags

[@JKARMIS1]

Probably a different translation to the romance languages .In Greek is just μάγοι ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν (Magi From the East)

[@johnnydez4392]

They allegedly saw a special star which some think was the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter . This grand conjunction happened recently for the first time in 2000 years.

[@FirstmaninRome]

Yeah, I was the Magi, with the frankescence in 1st grade christmas play at my Baptist school, and I guess I never got over trying to figure this out, this is great video on this.

[@Dyzinel]

I loved your video. Btw, here in Brazil they're known as the "três reis magos" so "three magicians kings".

[@johannasopanen3490]

Thank you for your channel! I have watched 4 videos so far and learned a lot! You have a very clear and entertaining way of explaining things

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

Glad you like them! Feel free to subscribe and suggest any video ideas!

[@randy2643]

Let's not forget that Matthew was written more for the Jewish audience that might have connected magi to Balaam, and mentioning in the book of Daniel and Esther. As always a great production.

[@eliyahushvartz2167]

Randy Well interestingly enough there were the Ebionite christians, who were jews that had a version of the gospel of Matthew. They denied that Yeshua (Jesus) had a virgin birth and they denied the divinity of him as well. They even insisted upon keeping jewish traditions and rites.

[@feanorofsunspear2320]

In German we call the three Caspar Melchior & Balthasar because the three wise men who go around at Christmas paint CMB (actually christus mansionem benedicat) on every door and peasants thought those were the three’s initials

[@leontarkostas5768]

in modern greek magos( μάγος) still means sorcerer. Even Harry potter is a μάγος

[@rde4017]

You make the Magi almost sound like the ancient British Druids. Fascinating stuff.

[@Jumpoable]

Well, they were Persian druids.

[@InTheRhettRow]

both derive from indo-european nature worhsip priesthood

[@jackpullen3820]

Good work, Andrew! I keep sharing, hope to see you over 50,000 soon...

[@sesa1076]

This is a great channel. I really can’t afford to donate right now, but I’ve been clicking like like crazy and hope it helps the algorithm at least. When work picks up I’ll try to pitch in. Thanks for making interesting content.

[@shadbakht]

It’s not even “three” wisemen or magi. The text says there are 3 gifts (gold, frankincense, mir) but says nothing about how many men there were.

[@Delgen1951]

Gold the gift for a King, Frankincense the gift for a Priest and Mir Gift roe a Prophet. There is a story I heard years ago that the Wise men watched to see which gift Jesus would take/choose, Jesus chose all three as Prophet, Priest and King.

[@facesbysusanna]

The scriptures stated quite clearly that it was 3 WISE MEN!!!!!!!!

[@nth7273]

@@facesbysusanna reference?

[@adamplentl5588]

@@facesbysusanna in English, sure. But the scriptures weren't written in English.

[@cernugaming]

@@Delgen1951 it's 3.. Because there's 3 stars in the sky that point to sirius and sirius pointd to the southern cross.

[@LancetFencing]

I just watched a Yale lecture on witches in England in the 16th century They were really called wise too it makes sense and continued for a long time after

[@lesfreresdelaquote1176]

So now I finally understand the last word of a story that happened to me some 30 years ago. My mother tongue is French, and in French like in most romance languages, we call them: Les Trois Rois Mages. I wanted to explain a traditional festival in France, which we call "tirer les rois" (drawing the kings ???) that takes place on the 6th of January. We then eat a "galette" a sort of flat cake with almond filling, in which a small token is hidden. The person who finds the token is then celebrated as king or queen and is crowned with a paper crown, which are sold in every bakery in France at the time of the year (quite a commercial festival nowadays). So I wanted to explain that this was related to the three kings of the Bible but I could not find a proper translation (this was pre-internet time). Eventually one of the guys who was from Canada said: this must be the 3 wise men, which in my opinion could not be what I was talking about... They had to be kings, right???

[@johnhurt1760]

Andrew: I appreciate your videos. Here are my thoughts: At the time of 1 AD, it was Parthia, not Persia from whence the Magi arrived. By 1 AD, there was a uneasy relationship between Rome and Parthia, as Gaius Caesar and Phraataces had worked out a truce over Armenia by recognizing Roman control there. The Parthians had routed the Romans out of Syria and Judea in 40 BC, and replaced the Roman client Hyrcanus II with Antigonus to rule Judea, who was then replaced by Herod in 37 BC with Roman help. Rome had won back this region for only 37 years. That these three men, who were part of the high priest / astrologer class of Parthia, arrived without warning and asked Herod where the "King" was so they could worship Him was something that rang the bells of the power elite. Knowing this background helps us to understand why Herod would go to the trouble try to kill this infant king as it appeared that Christ was somehow aligned with Parthia, the arch rival of Rome, and therefore Herod. There was something much more here than 3 followers of Zoroaster that came in from the desert. They were much like royal ambassadors. This also explains why they contacted Herod first, as they were considered to be emissaries from Parthia, and that is the proper protocol. Otherwise, they would have asked anyone, like the shepherds, what they had seen, and found the Christ that way. Myrrh is an antiseptic, and was also used as part of the Holy Anointing Oil of Exodus 30:23-25. Frankincense oil will heal just about anything, and was used by royalty to rub over a newborn baby for protection. And the gold paid for their flight to Egypt. It all had a purpose, and was exactly what Mary and Joseph needed for their baby and circumstances. Thank you for your videos. John Hurt

[@truthseeker6584]

Your information about the use of myrrh, frankincense oil and the gold is very interesting. So the three magoi came to protect baby Jesus - due to their deep knowledge of astrology and divination they obviously knew that an incarnation of God would be born although they did not know the exact place where that would happen.

[@AALavdas]

Very interesting contribution, many thanks. Just to add that, obviously it was a Parthian state, but the Pars/Fars region in Iran is literally where "Persia" is, and they might very well have been from there, hence Persian, even though the state was Parthia at the time. There is, by the way, an old Greek Christmas carol song that includes the lyric "...from Persia the 3 gift-bearing Magi are coming..".

[@hughcipher66]

What? The Drummer Boy Christmas special creepy? Man I cried watching that as a kid. I mean that poor little boy & his little drum. It...it *sniff was all he had😭

[@zayden1569]

Exactly, I mean it holds a place in my heart.

[@StudeSteve62]

"This exhausted lady and her new baby need a drum solo..." 😁

[@jopatice6631]

1. It is assumed that there were three “wise men” because there were three gifts. There could be more or less that traveled to see Jesus. 2. What type of “light or star” was it? If it appeared how old or close was the originating light source to reach earth? (Something to think about) 3. Lastly, in the book of Matthew, it speaks as if Jesus was already a couple years old by the time the wise men arrived. A two year trek would mean they traveled further than Persia. Also, they saw the star in the east, wouldn’t that mean they came from the western direction? When I see the sunrise in the east, that means I am to the west of the sun.

[@kainshannarra2451]

Evidence I've found over the years points to the 'star' being Jupiter, and it's path through certain constellations marked a 'celestial king' being born. Hence the reason the magi wanted to go investigate. The star being Jupiter also explains the weird path it took (receding, standing still, etc) and can be used to put a date to the birth of Jesus using astrological software. If I can find the link, I'll share it so you can check it out yourself.

[@MyNameIsCain]

As a Zoroastrian myself, much of my own areas of research have been into the links between groups like the Magians and ancient greco-roman Christians (with mention in places like Mathew) as well as early Muslims (with mention of the Magians as people of the book in the Quran). It's fascinating just how pervasive magic and other obviously pagan practices were in most everywhere in the ancient christian world.

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

+CainGrey Very cool. Since I research magic, I'm familiar with the etymology of the term "magos" and the Greco-Roman attitudes about it, but I admittedly don't know that much about the Iranian traditions that they borrowed from.

[@MyNameIsCain]

I wasn't born Zoroastrian or Parsi, but in my fascination with religion I read the Gathas in my adolescence. That was a big factor in my personal moral and spiritual development. After some discussion with Ervad Dr. Jehan Bagli a few years back I decided to convert to the faith.

[@Art1966]

How did you achieve that, I was told the faith allowed no converts?

[@jetfrog4574]

+Art1966 That's only with Parsis non Indian Zoroastrians accept conversion.

[@shanevan1]

Well, as a Christian it is not that surprising to see paganism imbedded in alot of cultures to be honest. According to the Judeo-Christian worldview from the moment sin and seperating from God began, it had been a slow but sure development of distance from the Creator. However Abraham received a promise of restoration between mankind and the Creator. So following down the generations... Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc. the Creator had a specific nation that the He would use to show the world who is the true God and offer a way to restore the severed relationship in love, whilst still enforcing and displaying justice to the universe. Jacob's name was changed to Israel and the offspring of his 12 sons would be called by this name. It is they who witnessed the Creator's authority and got instructions about His principles and will which they were to follow strictly as the chosen nation of priests and the example for mankind. As the rest of the world continued in the course of Adam and Eve, defining right and wrong, truth and error for themselves under the deception of the fallen adversary, Israel was called to be "holy/"set apart". Hence why they would be the only ones that never (completely) fell into paganism, hedonism and idolatry of their surrounding nations. So personally I see it as logical patterns, but it's very interesting to me in what shape or form different cultures' paganism or even perversions of Judaism were packaged.

[@mykulpierce]

The motif of holding snakes and scorpions while stading on crocodiles is common through ancient Persia and Egypt. There are also variations on the animals that maybe stood on. Which may also connect it to various lightning gods such as Teshub.

[@alexandercoffman8319]

This was great, And that is why I have watched this twice.

[@joeh5538]

This is a really really good video I'm seeing this five years later but, just wow. Five years? Wow

[@babyruthless9670]

Rewatching this on January 6th 2023! Happy new year Religion for breakfast 🌻🌻🌻

[@Hsdias]

Fun fact: in portuguese we call them wizard kings

[@mykulpierce]

One of the problems is that our interpretation of magic is incredibly tainted from printing press era tabloid-like publications on the subject. People taking ancient nuance topics and transforming them into mystical arts that they never once were. The Magi would be equivalent to the Egyptian "Priests" of Ptah

[@landofw56]

Some historians think that they are symbols of the three stars of Orion

[@maxxor-overworldhero6730]

Interesting, but much less plausible.

[@MMc-qv3hb]

Tradition dictates there were 3 Wise Men (or Magi), however Matthew's Gospel indicates Wise Men (plu) bringing/giving Jesus three specifically- named gifts. The number of Magi may have been 2+...?

[@pamelaflavell247]

M Mc This tradition started with John Henry Hopkins, Jr. wrote the song "We Three Kings of Orient Are" in 1857: "We three kings of Orient are; bearing gifts we traverse afar; field and fountain, moor and mountain, following yonder star." Not much is heard of the other song he wrote, When From The East The Wise Men Came: "Led by the Star of Bethlehem, the gifts they bro't to Jesus were of gold, frankincense and myrrh; bright gold of Ophir, passing fine; proclaims a King of royal line." They came from the Far East/Ophir.

[@pamelaflavell247]

D It was because 3 eastern regions were mentioned in the Bible: Ophir (the isles), Sheba and Tarshish. In fact the whole Psalm proclaimed the coming of the Messiah. Psalm 72:10 KJV “10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.”

[@OGDeepStroke]

I went to Lutheran School as a child and they were called “The 3 Magi”.

[@jounik8980]

Witches do magoc

[@OGDeepStroke]

@@jounik8980 magoc

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

thank you for more great content

[@coreymasoy7034]

Great episode !

[@beansnrice321]

A new twist on the magic of christmas, that actualy makes Christmas so much more cool. =)

[@ab-ul1yz]

In Italian we call them "re Magi" that means "kings Magi", is it possible that the "wise men" translation have something to do with Protestantism?

[@OBrasilo]

In Slovenian, they are both the "three holy kings" and the "three wise men", perhaps indicative of the translations coming from two different traditions.

[@ab-ul1yz]

@@OBrasilo That's very interesting, I didn't know!

[@brapboy72]

I remember speaking to Greek Orthodox priests and they said that the star that the Three Wise Men followed was sent by Lucifer to help King Herod find Jesus. What are your thoughts or understanding of this?

[@jmexegesis]

The number 3 with regard to the Maji is spurious. There were 3 gifts not necessarily 3 persons...usually they traveled in larger numbers

[@danielamin]

The word "wizard" is a modified form of the word "wise" though. Maybe in the 17th century when the King James Bible was written the word "wise" also had a connotation of someone who knew magic.

[@charlesmugleston6144]

Yes, on what level does this story need interpretation : The literal, allegorical, moral or Mystical - perhaps all four. Happy exploring and experiencing. Happy New Year as well. Charles x

[@Deo_ei]

I have heard from a few sources that i can't really confirm that the Orion's Belt constellation used to be called the 3 Wise Men or 3 Kings, and that the "3 wise men chasing the visible star" was an astrological sign of destiny. 4 stars lining up in an interesting pattern fortelling of a greatness. But i'm also aware of this more from references to an alleged horus' birth storyline that shares many of the common nativity scene concepts and tropes, including a too young Maryam having a "blessed" child in a cave from 5000 years ago. Has anybody else heard of this alternate take on the 3 wise men?

[@superjfbm]

..what world map is that one behind you?

[@soomkes7686]

Thanks to these 3 magi's i'm free work 1 day of the year. Thanks for that. (drie koningen/three kings)

[@kellydalstok8900]

België?

[@mrheal420]

I really enjoyed this one

[@usergiodmsilva1983PT]

In Portuguese they are also called Reis Magos! The bit about Magi being diviners and astrologers clarifies the myth the star perfectly. The more I see your Channel and other like the Oriental Institute of Chicago, the more I appreciate the Mythology of the Abrahamic Religions, such a rich backround! What about the Gautama Name, can it have anything to do with the Bhuddist/Hindu traditions?

[@moeleobha3585]

yes . It means honor ( worship ) Budha.

[@natasharichard3900]

Good work!

[@marcopolo2395]

i am greek. your greek accent is americanized. but your videos are awesome! i am studying business but i always liked this stuff more

[@xmaniac99]

Interesting choice of nick name, you are Greek and pick a Venetian nickname xd

[@marcopolo2395]

Mediolanon my region was for years under venetian control

[@xmaniac99]

Thanks, I was just surprised to see that since some Greek are a bit salty when it comes to Venice and its role during the 4th crusade.

[@marcopolo2395]

Mediolanon most greeks are more salty due to the fact that catholics heretics didnt help us with the siege of constantinople. But most greeks barely know any history, let alone the 4th crusade or anything.

[@xmaniac99]

The catholics heretics where busy with the Reconquista; a litte war called the 100 Hundred Year War (Valois vs Plantegenet) ; which was in its final fase and the Holy Roman Empire was going thru transtion leading to a civil war. The Ottomans really picked a good time. Except for the pope and some small city states with trade interests, sadly nobody really seemed to care about Constantinople anymore.

[@alexandercoffman8319]

This was a really informative video.

[@TheADHDNerd]

5:30 -Magical light suddenly appears on the wall to your right. :)

[@--------352]

It's called the sun

[@amosnaftali2495]

In Arabic Majusi or Magians or Zoroastrians

[@mrwersa1]

Yeah Arabs used it as an insult to call Persians.

[@arz5944]

@@mrwersa1 sad isn't it

[@mrwersa1]

@@arz5944 It was. It also shows how racist Arabs and their religion of peace are.

[@CStrailer]

That disc looks very much like the drums that the indiginous sami people of norway use for magicial practice. Very interesting!

[@paveldaman1820]

That's what I thought too

[@DarkMoonDroid]

3:55 Why have I never heard of this?

[@AnnhilateTheNihilist]

Andrew - if u think about gold, frankincense and myrrh, ask yourself what do they represent? It's a sign early ppl would have recognised. First - the gold symbolises a King, next frankincence signifies mystical or priestly, and third, the myrrh signifies death. So from the 3 gifts alone, we have 3 very recognizable symbols that accurately predict the life of "jesus"

[@CamaroMan514]

I always thought of the “three wise men following the star” as alluding to the three stars of Orion’s Belt

[@grndragon7777777]

I'm glad you put the spelling for charakteres

[@davidfitnesstech]

I've often wondered about these three guys myself.

[@sverrg]

Great video, love them all! One question, though, why do you and so many in the Christian traditions believe there were three men bearing gifts just because they brought three kinds of gifts? The actual number of magi is never stated, they could have pooled resources and been anywhere from 2 to infinity

[@joysoyo2416]

Their names are listed as the 3 men put into the fire. Google melchior.

[@sverrg]

@@joysoyo2416 I googled it and the first result was wikipedia stating that you are incorrect, Melchior isn't mentioned in any sources until hundreds of years after the death of Jesus: "The Gospels in the New Testament do not give the names of the Magi (or even their number)"

[@betrion7]

Dude, thanks for the comment, very interesting! Yes, I guess it's because of the 3 gifts.

[@buildingracingvideos4714]

I'm thinking magician is the only way to describe three men who predict when and where Jesus was born by following a star.

[@moroii]

Hey. Loved the video. I would love to see a video where you further explain divination magic. What patterns emerge in rituals? Did early Christians use divination rituals? Once again, thanks for the great content.

[@alexandercoffman8319]

Yes, I believe that Early Christian did just that-Well at least certain ones.

[@lukegehring8331]

"Thy nativity, O Christ our God, was shown upon the world as the light of knowledge; for thereby those who worshipped the stars were taught to adore Thee, the Sun of Righteousness, and to know Thee the dayspring from on high. O Lord, glory to Thee. " Troparion, tone 4, one of the original Nativity hymns, still sung in the Orthodox Church.

[@jaycorby]

Luke Gehring I have been an Orthodox Christian for 51 years, and currently the psaltis ( chanter ) at my parish church. The Troparion you so beautifully quote is that of the Nativity of Christ, chanted on December 25 and for 8 days thereafter.

[@Hecatonicosachoron]

I just watched your video on Mithraism and subscribed - cool channel! You mentioned in that one how the magi are sometimes mistaken as a similarity between Mithraism and Christianity and I was thinking "were'nt the magi Zoroastrian priests?" and was about to suggest that opic and here it is - you had already made it! Cool channel btw. You should have more subs. But I am assuming that your channel growth rate hasn't peaked yet.

[@mykewilliamsdorsey2727]

I believe the Magi were Vedic Practitioners from India. They were masters of Vedic Astrological signs. It makes sense that they would know when the Messiah was coming.

[@alfredoquesada7629]

I've always wanted to know if there is any connection between the "Magophonia" described by Herodorus And the purim?

[@zenultimatemaster9752]

Peace to the lord Jesus Christ and all enlightened beings in the universe loved the speech I’m a positive energy healer and I study a lot of positive things

[@linguisticallyoversight8685]

Old Scandinavian cultures also used runestones for basically the same thing they would carve a rune usually of Elder futhark into a single piece of rock something small or out of metal some of these would even be stone inlaid with precious metals a simple example of this are the TYR runestones or Thor or the Odin one's there are some that are dedicated to the viner and some that are dedicated to the icier we also see the same kind of thing done by the Celts and early Germanic

[@det.bullock4461]

In Italian they are called "re Magi" which is an old fashioned (but still commonly understood ) way of saying "'re maghi" which means "mage kings" or "wizard kings". PS: "magi" in Italian is pronounced "maji" (second sillable like in "Meji era") while the more modern "maghi" is the same but with a hard "g" (which is written "gh" in front of vowels that normally assume a soft "g").

[@johaneskrisostomus4863]

In the Indonesian translation of the bible, the three wise men is called the three "Majus" people. Majus is a derivative of the word Majusi which is what zoroastriansim is called here (although modern Indonesians rarely use this word anymore and just stick with "Zoroastrianisme").

[@jamienelson3470]

Doesn't the word "wizard" come from the same root as the word "wise"? And "magic" and "magi" are related linguistically in a similar way. I always just assumed that the words "magi" and "wizard" were sort of synonymous. I mean, not literally if you look them up in a dictionary, but in my head they always were.

[@OBrasilo]

Wizard etyomologically correspond to wise + -ard.and in addition to that, one meaning (probably archaic now) of "wizard" is wise man or sage.

[@WhiteOakAmps]

I have read several places over 20 years ago that the Magi were of the Mitanni people. Were the Mitanni too early in history to be considered the source of the Magi? Also, could these priests have come from different empires to the East. Thanks, I enjoy your program!

[@englishmonorrosana788]

Do you please remember one or the sources you read? Thanks

[@raeray2235]

Magical Christmas 2019!

[@arsavarese85]

I always thought the “Magi” were Babylonian Jews from the exile who knew Baalam’s prophesy from the book of numbers. I enjoyed learning about the Magi from your channel. I always enjoy learning from your content. Please keep up the good work!

[@parthianwarrior1901]

they were kurdish not jewish

[@CMPerry]

My current theory based on what I have learned from both historical and biblical study is that these "Magi" were an order of people who had knowledge of biblical prophecy and ancient wisdom about the stars (now lost to modern people) and that they had been directed to return with these gifts "when the signs of the time were right" by a prophetic command from King David to his son King Solomon an inheritance for Jesus. It is clear that these resources would have easily funded the family's ability move to and hide in Egypt for their extended stay on short notice. On a side note It is also possible that the global trade empire during the time of King Solomon provided a unifying influence that might account for many seemingly random similarities in the global cultures moving forward from that time period.

[@Psiberzerker]

"Wize" has a root in a similar word, Vizier. Also, Wizard, and Wizened. So, I assume that at some point, Magi was translated as Vizier?

[@Simonjose7258]

I always thought it was just a way to say "even the wise men from the east and Africa recognized a holy birth..." like the 3 "woke" people not from "Christendom".?.

[@JamesNicholsonRealtorVetMD]

Was anyone from christendom at the time if christendom didn't start until 30ish years after christ's birth?

[@aryandixit229]

The Magi are definitely Persian regardless of their religious background. It seems likely that they were Zoroastrian priests. There are also many similarities between Christians and Zoroastrians.

[@MarkTheChaldean]

How would you explain the role of Chaldeans in antiquity and how the Greeks and Romans saw them as astrologers too?

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

+MarkTheChaldean Well the Greeks and Romans were kind of notorious for fetishizing the "East." It's not all that much different than the Orientalism that we see in Western cultures today. They saw the Egyptians as mysterious and magical...same with the Babylonians and Persians.

[@pingpong1138]

Fun fact: Daniel predicts the birth of JESUS while in captivity, this was written in Aramatic to the local people. The Magi were probably people who had studied this writings and so when the star showed up they knew what it meant. It's a very interesting detail most people don't talk about.

[@mjolnir9855]

pingpong1138 I used to believe this as well, except the predictions in Daniel 9 are strictly about Antiochus Epiphanes, and how he would profain the temple. It counts down to that date, not to the messiah.

[@dylanthomas3072]

King James Bible translation dodges using magi entirely because, well, it's King James' version. At the time of the translation, James was like the ULTIMATE witchhunter, and basically mention of anything "magical" was taken as related to witches and thereby bad.

[@chilternsroamer872]

Macbeth (the Shakespeare play) has 3 witches playing an important part in it, and was first performed in 1605 (during James' reign). The main character, who listens to the witches, doesn't have a happy ending, and the witches' prophesies all come true, but not in the way the main character thought. So the motif of "stay away from witches and don't listen to them" is still there. Shakespeare's witches are "bad" characters, and I agree with you that a positive portrayal of "magical" was too much for the times (and James).

[@brucep1264]

A keyword to understand Matthew 2 is Worship, in protestant bibles, Homage, in Catholic bibles. Anciently it describes a ceremony where a vassal publicly declares their fealty to their Sovereign either to form that alliance or to renew it. Parts of the ceremony was declarations of praise for the feats of the Sovereign, & the giving of gifts. In Egypt were schools, including schools the Magi went to. Is it only incidental that Jesus and Moses were in Egypt and demonstrated magi-like abilities afterwards?

[@seanwelch71]

I understood that the inclusion of Persian magi represents the idea the the messiah fulfills all prophecies, including a Persian star prophecy. Their visitation is the surprise culmination of their own quest. They come bearing gold and valuable spices, gifts for a Semite king, even if its the son of a foriegn non-practicing woman. This shows a respect for divine action.

[@kellydalstok8900]

They are just stories, nothing more. Rationalized afterwards by people who want them to be true.

[@pamelaflavell247]

Magoi, magi, wise men, kings, elders... It’s just semantics. The gospel of Matthew was an original Hebrew composition. Some say that the author used collections of Aramaic or Hebrew sayings or traditions, then extant but now lost. No original Hebrew or Aramaic manuscripts of the Gospel has ever been recovered. Which brings me to 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV). “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” The original Greek text was "ἰδοὺ, μάγοι ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν" which literally means "idou, magoi apo anatolōn" - Behold, wise men from the Orient/Far East. According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, the word is magos, which means a Magian, an Oriental astrologer. Apo means "from, away from, distant" and anatolon means "region where the sun rises." Magi is a (corrupted) Greek transliteration, derived from Old Persian. If I were to accept that that’s the end-all-be-all, then the magi were Zoroastrian priests, which wouldn’t really make sense. They believed not in Yahusha Jesus, but in Saoshyant, the seed of Zoroaster as their messiah. The wise men were definitely Hebrews/Israelites because they went to search for their Messiah so they can worship him. Don’t forget that the Jews consisted only of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and some from Levi. They were just 2 tribes from the House of Jacob/Israel. There were the other 10 northern tribes of Israel that got dispersed and “lost,” who to this day still follow the laws of Moses. Plus they journeyed for 2 years, which explains The Murder of the Innocents. Herod had ordered the killing of children up to two years. Read Psalm 72, a prophecy about the birth of Yahusha Jesus. It tells you who the kings were: 8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. 9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him...10 The kings of Tarshish and of THE ISLES shall bring presents, the kings of Sheba shall offer gifts...” The key word is wilderness. This is where the wise men came from. The word ties to the Bible when Yahuah God carried their forefathers in a cloud and showed them the way across the Sambatyon River, into the mountains (wilderness), where they will dwell until the end times. And where might this be? Ophir, Sheba and Tarshish: a year and a half journey from Ezion-Geber. These are the isles named after the sons of Joktan from the line of Eber-Selah-Arpachshad-Shem. Do not confuse Sheba, brother of Ophir, with Seba, son of Cush (Ethiopia) from the line of Ham. Back to the 3 kings... they took the same journey as the Queen of Sheba did when she traveled with the King of Tyre and present Solomon with gold from Ophir to build the temple. It helps to understand the ties between these people if you search: Solomon, Hiram, Ezion-Geber, Tyre, Phoenicians, the seafaring people as well as the Danites. Then look up Tyrian purple, the dye used to color royal garments. Then look up The Boxer Codex, a pictographic documentation of how the people of Ophir dressed before the Jesuits/Spaniards colonized the isles. Also, look up Butuan Ivory Seal with Hebrew inscriptions, and Balangay Motherboat. Lastly, look up the ancient Phoenician flag and compare it to the modern Philippine flag.

[@sabin97]

i dont speak greek, and i dont know any greek at all. but i looked up in google translate magoi(the word you used in romanji) translates to english as magicians. it translates to spanish as magos. it translates to portuguese as magicos. in babyl it translates to english as magi, wizard, sorcerer, etc... to spanish as mago, brujo, hechicero, etc. to portuguese as bruxo, mago , feiticeiro, etc... in all cases it fits the description of an old man with a long beard who casts spells and performs other magics....nothing to do with "wisdom", but with casting spells, etc.....

[@sabin97]

@Anthony Tsatsis so not wise men, but basically magic users....or mages....or psychics.....in the modern world known as charlatans.

[@pamelaflavell247]

@@sabin97 Isaiah 60:1, 3, 6 KJV “Arise, shine; for thy LIGHT (His Star, an angel) is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee… And the Gentiles shall come to thy LIGHT, and KINGS to the brightness of thy rising…The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Median and Ephah; ALL THEY FROM SHEBA SHALL COME: THEY SHALL BRING GOLD AND INCENSE; and they shall shew forth the praises of the Lord.” Psalm 70:2 KJV “The KINGS of Tarshish and of the Isles shall bring presents: the KINGS of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.” Yes, it’s the mysterious people whose identity will remain as such until their revelation. It’s the same group of people who diligently voyaged in their “Ships of Tarshish” to deliver gold for Solomon’s Temple every 3 years. They are kings/tribe leaders from Tarshish, Sheba, and the coastlands/distant lands or Isles of Ophir.

[@sabin97]

@@pamelaflavell247 there's a word for that. charlatans.

[@sabin97]

there's already a word for that: charlatans

[@pchee]

I feel like calling them "wise men" is distracting from what they were: magicians. Most others have translations of magic/magi/magicians but here in the west, in the states, I always hear it as wise men. I do prefer magician myself - just feels less vague.

[@mattbugg4568]

The magi are from the east, China, the east would be the area past the mountains. In china early taoism doctrine was very similar to christianity, and they studied the universe and were very well versed in astronomy and astrology through the lo scrolls. So my guess is that the maji were taoist as they have shrines in the middle east.

[@San-b3t1d]

Are you talking about Achaemenid times??

[@troyyoung7495]

Their hats are fashioned after majic mushrooms, they looked like the head of psychedelic. Mirh and frakensense are also(when inhaled smoke were also psychotropic also.

[@starshade7826]

Whenever something looks mildly mystical you don't have to look far to find a mushroom worshiper saying it's TOOOOTALLY a reference to 'shrooms. Next you'll be telling me sikhs are high all the time because their hats look similar.

[@WEJHFFVBWEOZFGAWEF]

I would like to add that in the New Testament is nowhere mentioned the number of “magoi” . The only reason why we ended up with number 3 is because there were 3 gifts