Who were the Sea Peoples? | The Bronze Age Collapse

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

Signup for your FREE trial to Wondrium here: ow.ly/8J1C30spaZa

[@adityajaiswal70]

Make videos about hinduism

[@dr.floridaman4805]

This is why invaders are to be eradicated

[@davidplowman6149]

Report something new or my board game about the Bronze Age or the Bronze Age Collapse will arrive and confuse players. You have ten years! The first is simply a Bronze Age in equilibrium and the second is the Bronze Age constrained with disasters adding to limited resources. I could send anyone the map and rules if their interested, but if I ever go anywhere it’ll be for space games.

[@MAKDÁVID-KRIŽ]

So fundamentally Jews are a Greek like SeaPeople who’s heritage is Mediterranean and have invaded coastal groups of the continent?

[@KnowThyself47]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6PdZZSwapeKetU kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYnTp6SlpMxrn68

[@RandyJamminMusic]

I love that one of the great mysteries of all of history is just "Sea people"

[@DzinkyDzink]

At least they are not called "Sea Men"

[@RandyJamminMusic]

@@DzinkyDzink Good. One. Lol.

[@Ezullof]

I don't know any "mystery" without a simple name.

[@herratr9168]

The sea is full of misteries 🤫🤫🤫

[@lunchbucket2494]

Lol yea. I think the fact that we are only able to call them the "Sea people" really shows how much we don't know about them, which, for me, makes it more interesting.

[@fakeplaystore7991]

"Hey, have you tried being stronger than you enemy?" - Thanks for the valuable advice, King Obvious I of Cyprus, that really helped a lot.

[@naptime43x]

"git gud" - king of cyprus, probably.

[@atticusrussel3485]

To be fair, he probably means it in the "formidable" sense. Like, make thick walls ehich are strong, be defensible.

[@whoknowswhocares885]

Ancient translation, "We are all safer on an island and not helping, deal with it yourself."

[@jackieclaremont3227]

Literally. I think the subtext was more like “yo, you’ve got an army, why do u need me?”

[@juanfisi]

The "make your self strong" can have different connotaciones beyond thenliterall translation. Could mean to be defensive, to make your position strong rather than engaging the enemy on open field.

[@douglasboyle6544]

The "Sea Peoples" and the Late Bronze Age Collapse is quite possibly one of the most engrossing historical mysteries there is. The high-level view of the basic facts is intriguing and the more you drill down and the more you learn, even after dispelling myths, it just gets more and more interesting. It also doesn't hurt having a charismatic guy like Eric Cline do presentations about the archaeology and scholarship he does about it.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Libya was a Phoenician Principality. Phoenicians were also the Priest Class of early Egypt. Israel is the Phoenician word for Saturn, or El, Fruit of Isis and Ra

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@uncannyvalley2350 israel is a hebrew word

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482 Google

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Google can tell you vaccines can cause autism

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482 I wasn't telling you to Google vaccines champ Red herring

[@RubricalChain25]

“Hittite, Assyria, Canaan, Egypt. Long ago, these four nations lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Sea People invaded.”

[@wawaweewa9159]

😂😂 a TV series following the lives of multiple families, one of each civilization at the same time would be amazing

[@lucasortiz9108]

​@@wawaweewa9159 i love that idea bro

[@DONKEYWALK]

i know it is an avatar reference but canaan and egypt lived in anything but in peace

[@j.m.w.5064]

Obviously Egypt did an excessive amount of earth bending. But in the end all the bronze age dudes vanished when the metal benders entered the stage ....

[@ryanmuro]

@@wawaweewa9159I second this

[@dadventuretv2538]

This was excellent. My undergrad thesis in 1994 was on who the Sea People might have been. My conclusion- they were Greeks (when I say Greeks I am referring to the entire Greek world, the mainland, the Aegean Islands and Crete, what is generally lumped in as Mycenaean). The basic facts I found persuasive for coming to my conclusion were: - Moshe and Trude Dothan’s archaeological work on the Philistines which even back then convinced me they were of Greek origins. The pottery and writing similarities were too convincing. I’m glad to see that DNA evidence has pretty much proved this now. - The fact that the Greeks/Mycenaeans were not a homogeneous people and would have been viewed by the Egyptians (and themselves) as separate groups with different names. - The similarities of the depictions of the helmets and armor of many of the Sea People by the Egyptions to the depiction of Greek warriors on late Bronze Age Mycenaean vases and pottery. - The fact that during the bronze age trade was wine and olives and olive oil from Greece to Egypt and grain from Egypt to Greece. - The changes in climate that would have caused crop losses and likely famine just before the Sea People’s appearance - The fact that during the Bronze Age (and even during the Classical Period) Greece could not feed itself without importing grain from Egypt. Egypt was known as the bread basket of the Mediterranean after all. - The fact that the vast majority of the Sea People were uncircumcised- in addition to cutting of hands for the body count the Egyptians cut off the phallus and kept detailed descriptions of whether the severed phalli were circumcised or not- Greeks would have been uncircumcised. - The fact that prior to the big battle with Ramses cities and lands from the Hittites all along the Levantine coast were being sacked. - The were said to be from the North and came by Sea on boats. - The remembrance in the Iliad and in Odysseus’s journeys in the Odyssey of general eastward and southward migration of Greek warriors and people. There may have a few more but these were most of the big ones that I can recall. My hypothesis was that we know that Greece needed to import food, we know that just prior to the Sea People’s appearance climate was changing, Mycenae and the Greek world was facing wars (maybe with invaders, maybe among itself, or maybe both) but had both famine and a political upheaval issues, we know that Greeks were getting fed by Egypt, we know that the destruction started in Asia Minor along the coast and along the Levantine coast prior to battle with Egypt, and we know that right around the time of Ramses battle with the Sea People the Philistines, who are Greeks, pop up settled in the Levant. We also have similarities of the armor and helmets from the drawings and vases, and this remembrance in Greek culture of a vast migration of warriors and people to Asia Minor and further south along the Levant in the Iliad and the Odyssey. So my hypothesis was that there was famine, war and turmoil in the Greek lands, that as a result people from different city-states got together at different times and went eastward and southward, either to migrate or get what they needed and bring home, that they started with the closest lands in Asia Minor and proceeded down the Levantine coast until ultimately coming to Egypt’s borders (it would make sense that if an inability to feed itself due to harvest disruptions from war and climate change and trade route interruptions, they would eventually go where they knew the food came from- Egypt) and having the battle with Ramses. Along the way, and particularly after the battle with Ramses, they either settled, or perhaps were encouraged to settle by Ramses as a sort of vassal buffer states, in Canaan and quickly commingled and became the Philistines. All of which is remembered in the Iliad and the Odyssey.

[@eduardorubiano9661]

Great work 👏

[@bledarndreu2895]

The mycenean were of Yamnaya ancestry haplogroup J-L283 huntergatherers same as illyrians the sea people have been E-V13 farmers these haplogroup should belong to pelasgians, ancient grandfathers of greeks and albanians, same as J-L283, and R1b the three haplogroups dominate nowdays in albanian and greek populations haplogroup E entered Balkan peninsula from Levant and had a strong presence in Egypt and the rest of north Africa besides Balkans and the rest of Europe it has been before J-L283 and R1b haplogroups in Balkans so its the main candidate for being the pelasgian haplogroup

[@SidewaysBurnouts]

philistines are native to canaan, phonecians are the sea peoples of modern libya..

[@knuknarot]

​@@bledarndreu2895 typical delusional Albanian

[@ermioniburgess8720]

Found potery from Cyprus and Crete in Ashkelon the Philistine City.Also DNA from the pigs found to be South Europeans.They were Achaias and Myceneans.

[@adammarktaylor]

I think regarding the Sherdana/Sardinia connection, as well as the linguistic link, they've also found carved warrior figurines in Sardinia whose armour, in particular the distinctive horned helmets, match up with the Egyptian depictions of the Sherdana in the battle reliefs.

[@c.f.okonta8815]

The sea people were probably Greeks or southern Italians invading the eastern Mediterranean

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

Yes, but we already know about that connection. What you don't know is who were they. I will reveal to you. The sea peoples, were Egyptian races (from which came Philistines), along with others in a coalition against Egypt, and this is their origins: *MITSRAYIM* (Egyptians): *Ludim* (Lukka, Lycia- Lod/Lydda, levant) *Caslukhim* (Tjekker- Dor/Sicani, Sicily) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians) *CANAAN* (Natufians/Phoenicians{Tyre}): *Yebusites* (Weqshesh- IBIZA/Levant) *Girgashites* (Weshesh, Karkisha/Caria- levant+Hatti●) *Hivites* (Ahhiyawa, anatolia, Lebanon, Hermon)

[@elimalinsky7069]

While the horned helmets are quite distinct, the feathered headgear was quite common throughout Greece, Sicily and Sardinia and is a vaguely South European feature of warrior attire in the bronze age. That is one of the reasons why scholars are convinced that we can be almost entirely confident that the Sea Peoples came broadly from southern Europe. Where exactly in southern Europe is anyone's guess.

[@tonybrowneyed8277]

little factoid: there shardana on both sides of the battlefield.

[@icecreamman4eva]

what other culture was known for horned helmets and raiding coasts with ships? hmmm looks ancient Scandinavia

[@ChrisVillagomez]

Both History Time and The Histocrat have created documentaries breaking down who the Sea Peoples might have been as well, I love learning about this kind of investigative archaeology, keep up the good work :)

[@Richth76]

Love The Histocrat before bed

[@alexnelson5662]

Fall of Civilizations covered the Bronze Age Collapse as well. Highly recommend

[@typo4859]

Yeah don't forget to show epimetheus' bronze age videos some love

[@KnowThyself47]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6PdZZSwapeKetU

[@paulnolan4971]

Wasn't Santorini goin nuclear a factor

[@alessandro_natali]

I love the Sea People. I believe that the Shardana may really be the Sardinians. There's a lot of similarities between the iconography of Shardana in the Egyptian sources and the iconography of bronze statuettes of the Nuragic Civilization (horned helmets, same type of sword and more: the eponymous god Sardus wore a feathered hat)

[@TheScandoman]

Yes, clues are there: people seem to forget that language barriers are not new! Just as, in English, we call them Germans, and they call themselves Deutsch! And also (even barring derogatory epithets), different languages work differently, and there can be cultural effects. For example: in English, we refer to Austria, and AustriANS; and, if you look closely, you can see the parallel as Germans call it Õesterreich, with Öesterreicher iving in it (Öesterreicherinen would be Austrian women.) But, you can see it break down as 'eastern kingdom'...but, no matter what the deluded pseudo-purists will try to say, 'English' is really a messy mash-up of several languages, with a LOT if shortcuts taken, and mistakes made! (Note: we made it even worse in the Americas!) So, we shouldn't expect the Egyptians to pronounce the names for these peoples the same as they said it themselves, nor the same as the Hittites would! Of course, the other issue is while it is clear that some of the 'Sea peoples' died and didn't go anywhere else, it is also pretty clear that the 'Philstines' did NOT go back from when they came! Others may have, but might also have escaped the battle(s) in Egypt, and gone on to other, 'new' places to settle. So, it's a little hard to say whether they got called 'Shekelesh' because they came FROM 'Sicily'* or WENT there... * (or whatever the Egyptian pronunciation...) Same with 'Sardinia' and 'Sardinians'... Personally, it would seem to me that just as we call people from Virginia, Virginians, or from Florida, FloridIANS, and we see this sort of modification on other languages, that ' 'Peloset' are people from 'Pelos' which is not much of a linguistic stretch from Pylos, and who know how the people in Pylos pronounced 'Pylos' 3200 years ago!

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Libya was a Phoenician colony, Phoenicians appear to be a collective of Celtic Tribes that stretched from Iberia to Ugarit and the island chains in between. Iberia means Over, and has the same root as Hebrew, as in overseas. People with sails would've seemed magical and the Phoenicians pioneered maritime navigation using the stars. They were also the Priest class of Egypt, and among its founders. Israel is the Phoenician word for Saturn, or El, Fruit of Isis and Ra. The region of Georgia on the Eastern shores of the Black Sea where we find the Dolmens of Iberia was also called Iberia, and was home to the Colchians, who would eventually become the Armenians. Herodotus lists Colchians as one of the few to circumcise themselves, as well as the Egyptians. He makes no mention of Jews

[@TheScandoman]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Well, the Phoenicians got around; but don't forget that that there were already people there when they founded Carthage...I haven't read up much on their origins...

[@ThePrinceofParthia]

@@uncannyvalley2350 There is absolutely no evidence for Phoenicians being in any way Celtic. Celtic is an Indo-European people-group, whereas Phoenicians were Semetic culturally and linguistically.

[@Baccanaso]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Phoenicians spread out after the bronze age collapse and spoke a completely different language than Celts, not to say also different in genetics, religion, customs, etc. They were closer to the Israelites and other Canaanite groups than anything.

[@eleonb]

This topic is absolutely fascinating, I’ve seen several other videos about it, but this one might be my new favorite. Thank you very much and congratulations!

[@kellyezebra]

I don’t think I’ll ever get enough of the sea peoples!

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

Well, this is the ultimate truth about it...The sea peoples, were Egyptian races (from which came Philistines), along with others in a coalition against Egypt, and this is their origins: *MITSRAYIM* (Egyptians): *Ludim* (Lukka, Lycia- Lod/Lydda, levant) *Caslukhim* (Tjekker- Dor/Sicani, Sicily) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians) *CANAAN* (Natufians/Phoenicians{Tyre}): *Yebusites* (Weqshesh- IBIZA/Levant) *Girgashites* (Weshesh, Karkisha/Caria- levant+Hatti●) *Hivites* (Ahhiyawa, anatolia, Lebanon, Hermon)

[@lindaperes112]

Maby you are right but you should keep in mind that Albanians consider themselves as they're sucsesors and refer to them as they're ancestor's

[@hismajesty6272]

Maybe the real Sea Peoples were the friends we made along the way.

[@corsaircaruso471]

It sounds the Sea Peoples could be more a symptom of the Bronze Age Collapse rather than a cause. Large scale migration due to the various factors (plague, famine, and apparently large scale earthquakes, according to some scholars) that caused the Collapse. Dissatisfaction among the migrants and the disadvantaged may have led to invasions and uprisings across the various city-states, already weakened by whatever natural disasters had preceded. With each major settlement loss, part of the economic web that sustained the cultural complexity of the region was lost, which led to further losses, etc. Eventually most of the major nations besides Egypt fell apart, to the point that, famously, technology like pottery and writing were lost or became much more simplistic across the Mediterranean.

[@Pyjamarama11]

Sounds very contemporary

[@lyricofwise6894]

Precisely, why wouldnt they TRY to take advantage, when all these things were happening anyway outside of any doing with the Sea Peoples. With the bronze age collapse and sea peoples, Egypt and Assyria civ left intact but weakened

[@wawaweewa9159]

Very good point about fall of some cities dominoing others into disarray

[@isomeme]

It seems to me that the "Sea Peoples" were simply aggressive outsiders who took advantage of the weakened and fragile state of the Bronze Age societies of the eastern Mediterranean. An empire at the height of its power is unlikely to be toppled by "barbarians". It's much like how someone with a compromised immune system might die from an infection that would be a brief inconvenience for an otherwise healthy person. Yes, the infection killed them, but that's not the best explanation for why they died. I find it interesting to consider the similarities between the Bronze Age collapse and the end of the western Roman Empire.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

There's also the Minoan collapse and vulcanism that kicked off the Greek Dark Ages

[@nosuchthing8]

Why does everything have to be about the covid pandemic?

[@isomeme]

@@nosuchthing8 , well played. :)

[@Zodroo_Tint]

"simply aggressive outsiders" With all due respect you sound like an american. :) I can imagine a bronze age W figure who says: "You either with us or with the Sea People..." Usually nothing is this simple. I think there is a chance Sea People were came from the answer to the destruction of Troy and the danger the Phoenicians faced in that time. I think they were mercenaries of the Phoenicians and they came from the lower Danube area.

[@isomeme]

@@Zodroo_Tint , that sounds like a description of outsiders who were aggressive -- nobody pays passive mercenaries. 🙂 So what is our disagreement?

[@alexandrawilliams1801]

I absolutely adore learning more about this topic. I'm writing a fantasy novel, with the Bronze Age Collapse actually playing into the mythos. So the more I can learn on the subject, the better. And that you come at this from an Egyptian perspective as well? *chef's kiss*

[@bradleylaford1526]

A Fantasy Novel based upon a Real Era?

[@alexandrawilliams1801]

@@bradleylaford1526 Heavily based on IRL folklore and mythology. So, no, not like a sword and sorcery of Medieval Europe. More taking the Ancient Egyptian pantheon, and extrapolating that with the bronze age collapse, giving a mass migration of 'the old gods' and they spread across the globe, giving a much more mixed and murky kind of 'where are you really from' feel... It's hard to explain without actual specifics, bu that's the gist of it.

[@michaels.maguina6526]

@@alexandrawilliams1801 that sounds REALLY interesting. Best wishes for your novel!

[@alexandrawilliams1801]

@@michaels.maguina6526 Thanks! Hope it turns out right.

[@toocutepuppies6535]

I love historical novels! Good luck! 👍🏼

[@sono_chi_no_sodium_chlorid7635]

I always loved the name "Sea People" because it reminded me of some fantasy story when you have the "People of the Forest" or "The Nation of Light"

[@blackbird5634]

Much more romantic than ''boat people."😆

[@bobSeigar]

Literally just searched for Sea People. My favorite channel releases a video 2 minutes ago. My eternal gratitude for the well of information.

[@dmw0077]

Excellent analysis (as always). I tend to study Far Eastern history more than Middle Eastern, and your quote of Cline's hypothesis reminded me of another hypothesis about why the Mongol army had been so successful in the 13th Century. Western scholars tend to credit the Mongols with superior weapons, horses, armor, etc--things virtually all their defeated opponents had (and in greater quantities and quality). However Genghis Khan successfully united his neighboring tribes at the same time literally all the major civilizations around him were busy infighting and imploding. In fact, it appears many (if not most) of his "horde" was made up of soldiers (and their families) who joined the Mongol side rather than continue to support their previous masters. Back to your video, it would make perfect sense if many of these "Sea People" were locals who saw no future continuing to serve their current leaders, and switched to the "Sea People" side in an effort to get out of the perceived downward spiral that existed in their own culture/government.

[@AMR_k400]

Iron age levantines and iron age eurasian settlers from the horn of africa (who reprsent the largest eurasian admixture the region ever had) have more similarities with minoans in terms of dna than they have with their neighboring semites , 80%anatolian neolithic and 20% caucasian huntergatherers(in case of the horneurasiasn) ,that's exactly the same with minoans. how did anatolian neolithic reach north Eastern africa and the levant if Mediterranean people didnt migrate to those regions, most native semites have above 50% caucasian hunter gatherer ancestry (bedouin arabs have 60-90%), so yeah Mediterraneans did migrate to the those regions.

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

The sea peoples, were Egyptian races (from which came Philistines), along with others in a coalition against Egypt, and this is their origins: *MITSRAYIM* (Egyptians): *Ludim* (Lukka, Lycia- Lod/Lydda, levant) *Caslukhim* (Tjekker- Dor/Sicani, Sicily) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians) *CANAAN* (Natufians/Phoenicians{Tyre}): *Yebusites* (Weqshesh- IBIZA/Levant) *Girgashites* (Weshesh, Karkisha/Caria- levant+Hatti●) *Hivites* (Ahhiyawa, anatolia, Lebanon, Hermon)

[@usergiodmsilva1983PT]

11:50 Pigs bred by the Philistines also match that of European boars, not from near Eastern ones. Eric Cline's lectures in the Oriental Institute are awesome by the way.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Iberians, Iber has the same root as Hebrew, and means Over, as in Overseas. The same metonic calendar and Megalithic structures followed wherever they went. The Galatians were even Celts, from Galicia in Iberia

[@MattBellzminion]

+1 re. historian Eric Cline! For the Cline-curious: I watched a great lecture of his, "1177 B.C.: the year that civilization collapsed" or similar, a while back, for free and right here on KZbin. It turns out there are several such videos on YT now, but different lengths and from different academic events and venues, so just pick one that fits your schedule, and enjoy!

[@tonybrowneyed8277]

@@uncannyvalley2350 the place-names for celts, galicia-gaul-wales-kellatoi etc (g-w-k), are variations of the same name. i am not sure the galatians came from iberia. they were in greece since 300 bc, and the tribes' names were not celto-iberian ones it seems. most likely they came from the danube region.

[@yonidellarocha9714]

@@tonybrowneyed8277 Indeed, the galatians might have come from the other galitzia/gallicia, which is a region in eastern Poland and western Ukraine, north of the Danube. This is where every gaelic groups seems to have originated before moving west 4300 years ago, evidently some of them remained in the region and maybe other groups went elsewhere.

[@yonidellarocha9714]

@@uncannyvalley2350 You seem to have fallen into a very common trap, which is taking the name celtiberian at face value. It's just a name that encompasses both populations, it doesn't imply that they are one single group, and genetic data shows them to be different groups when they started living alongisde in Iberia around 4000 years ago, which happened when the gaelic people arrived with their oxen driven carts. The iberian were already there and were mostly farmers, and goat herders, and of semitic origin. As for the megalithic structures, it is understood that it predates this era and were probably constructed by the ancestors of the iberians and other mediterranean/anatolian farming populations, maybe even of the canaanites too. There is a lot of study of this inside judaism, as several passages mention Aaron setting up the early Solomonic temple on top of an already existing structure that their ancestors before Abrahams migration to Egypt already knew how to use. The modern academic study of the Torah proposes that the ancestors of Abraham came from the northern Levant/Anatolia and built a megalithic temple with astronomical significance regarding Venus and it's relation with fertility of the land and people, then spread out along the mediterranean (including the ancestors of the iberians), and some of them ended up in Egypt (abrahamic branch). So when the israelites came back with Moses, Aaron had the knowledge to locate the place and to set up the early structures so that the religious rites could be performed, guided apparently by the shekinah, which today means presence, but it's understood as a venusian astronomical phenomenon, used to reestablish the calendar in its proper cycle/phase. It's an intersection topic for sure, and opens up several more possibilities, like these anatolian populations being related to the cucuteni/trypillia farmers who then could have migrated back to their southern lands and started building these megaliths all along the mediterranean, once they mastered boat building in the black sea, which meant that they were competent in woodworking and lifting heavy things. I'm inclined to believe it went from Anatolia to cucuteni in Moldova, back to Anatolia, then a large population explosion in the eastern mediterranean around the early 3rd millennia (picking up their semitic lineage by mixing), and then everywhere else, including Iberia.

[@DKforever24]

There is archeological evidence that one group of the 'Sea Peoples' had come from the area of the Po River in Northern Italy. They had found evidence of widespread drought during the late Bronze Age, where many of the small villages had been abandoned and the few that weren't suffering from drought saw a large population boom. It is known that those people were actively trading with Sardinia, Sicily, and Greece at the time, so it is possible that some of the people that lived on or near the coast had decided to migrate to the Eastern Mediterranean after hearing about how bountiful the land was and how rich the people were.

[@nope929]

If a group of people could destroy the Hittites, Egyptians, and Assyrians then it's more than just the Italians who did it

[@ezrajrperida100]

@@nope929 Do not underestimate the power of the Italians

[@Norwoodg00ner]

Some were celts. No I won’t elaborate

[@GizzyDillespee]

It was aliens. No, not space aliens.

[@Norwoodg00ner]

@@GizzyDillespee wow you must be very intelligent

[@neutronalchemist3241]

We know that Pharaons tended to embellish their achievements. Already Ramses II turned the battle of Kadesh, at best a draw and more likely a defeat, into a great victory in his account. Based on the fact that Egypt abandoned its belongings in Asia Minor and retreated beyond the Sinai after the battle, again, it's unlikely it had been more than a hard fought draw. The Sherden having settled Sardinia only after the battle is higly improbable. The Nuragic civilization doesn't show any significative break in 12th century BC, nor in pottery, burials, art, etc. The supposed invaders should have brought to the island nothing but their name.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

The Battle of Qadesh is simultaneous with the Battle of Troy, the battle of Megiddo under Tutmoses III is analog with the battle of Jericho under Joshua. The Battle of Urshu and Akkad is synchronous with that of Solomon, where Solomon enlists the Hittite General Uriah, and his Chariots

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@علئ ياسر or maybe he was a Pharoah

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@علئ ياسر No he was a Unicorn and a Hippopotamus

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@علئ ياسر you don't have to be sorry, clearly you were dropped on your head, and think the only reality is the one in your head

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

The sea peoples, were Egyptian races (from which came Philistines), along with others in a coalition against Egypt, and this is their origins: *MITSRAYIM* (Egyptians): *Ludim* (Lukka, Lycia- Lod/Lydda, levant) *Caslukhim* (Tjekker- Dor/Sicani, Sicily) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians) *CANAAN* (Natufians/Phoenicians{Tyre}): *Yebusites* (Weqshesh- IBIZA/Levant) *Girgashites* (Weshesh, Karkisha/Caria- levant+Hatti●) *Hivites* (Ahhiyawa, anatolia, Lebanon, Hermon)

[@TommyStubbs]

the late bronze age is my favorite time period, the sea peoples are my favorite historical anomaly, and religionforbreakfast is one of my favorite youtube channels! super stoked about this!!

[@pizzagogo6151]

A little different from your usual content, but as I have a huge interest in Ancient history, this was excellently done! Thanks!

[@usergiodmsilva1983PT]

Love the Bronze age coverage! I bet the Iliad is somewhat inspired by the Greek/Sardinian coalitions attacking the Hittite kingdom during this period.

[@KeganTheTowel]

I've seen dozens of videos about the sea peoples, and while I assume this won't be any different I just love RFB content so much Imma watch it.

[@kellyezebra]

Same! Love hearing about the Sea Peoples and Bronze Age collapse, and when one of my fave KZbinrs like RFB make a video about it I’m there!

[@rickmcdonald1557]

Another great video-as usual-and I have my Tuesday Morning History Lesson under my belt. Andrew always does a perfect job of Narration so easy to understand. I appreciate all his work on these video classes~!!

[@monkieassasin]

This is the best video I’ve watched about them so far. Good work.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

I've figured that a lot of Sea Peoples were likely Mykenaean in origin. Poems regarding the Trojan War frequently state that the Mykenaeans raided and plundered several other peoples, and that the plunder of Troy was insufficient, which caused more plundering of the surrounding areas as well as many turning to piracy. With the Hittites and Canaanites being allies of Troy, it isn't hard to imagine some members of the Mykenaean alliance turning their ire upon them for helping Troy drag out this war.

[@haroldcruz8550]

But the Egyptians already have trade relations with the Mycenaeans, The Egyptians would have named them instead of calling the invaders "Sea People" if that was the case.

[@agentofchaos7456]

@@haroldcruz8550 The Egyptians apparently did name the Mycenaeans as being one of the Sea People. The Sea People were more than one nation.

[@DoctorBiobrain]

This is interesting but it only brings up a bigger mystery: What are Sea Monkeys?

[@concernedliberal4453]

"See People and me!!!"

[@tonybrowneyed8277]

the c people's pets?

[@Crecganford]

Very good presentation, well balanced, I do like Cline's work and feel he is probably more on the right track than most.

[@Kyryyn_Lyyh]

It’s often useful to remember that anything left from ancient Egypt is literal state-religious propaganda. Immensely valuable but immensely biased. It’s like trusting the death counts in Caesars journal :D

[@rtlgrmpf]

Yeah, but that goes for nearly all historic accounts. On the one hand it's better than just a few bones. On the other hand it can be totally misleading. But even if it was pure propaganda and total BS, they did it for a reason. Some parts must be true.

[@el_equidistante]

no it's not, there's literally letters between the great empires of the time

[@MerkhVision]

@@el_equidistante they don’t mean the whole thing didn’t happen, just that specifically what the Egyptians wrote about it were exaggerated to make Egypt and their Pharaoh look good lol

[@Kyryyn_Lyyh]

@@rtlgrmpf Absolutely, a biased source is a great way to learn the biases of people!

[@Ritz1256]

Fun fact: One Ancient Egyptian propaganda was able to be uncovered because all the writings about the military stuff suspiciously only wrote victories. Scholars was then able to conclude that Ancient Egypt only wrote victories, and was able to uncover what actually happened, by looking at the fact that victories were recorded closer and closer to the Egyptian heartland.

[@Fabboi_unl]

"you're about to be invaded? Make yourself strong bro" "Thanks for the advise...💀"

[@calvingrondahl1011]

Science is careful, history is a science. Thanks Religion 4 Breakfast for your careful honesty.

[@drgeorgek]

Absolutely brilliant discussion on this subject. Have watched many of these but the research behind this and information gleaned in only 17 minutes is by far the most I’ve learnt. That lightbulb moment that the so called sea peoples were probably the effect of an already occurring collapse and not so much the cause of it was inspiring and makes more sense… seems like everyone was migrating at the time for food and resources due to famine, plague etc, resulting in conflicts along the way. Bravo on a great scholarly piece.

[@DrBrianaJackson]

Awesome inclusion of archaeology! Fantastically narrated and illustrated and as usual your editing is 🔥🔥🔥🔥 Probably, maybe, possibly, the favorite words of Bronze Age scholars 🤣

[@BucketBoatable]

"Sea people are coming!! Help!!" "Just be strong bro." Great advice. Maybe it meant ab ancient state equivalent of "switch to war economy"?

[@iBullyDemons]

"Have you tried not losing?"

[@theeddorian]

There are details of armor, especially feathered and horned helmets correspond between the Egyptian depictions of the invaders, statuary and and engravings in Sardinia and Sicily. The Egyptian inscription also mentions their islands. So, there is some archaeological support for the idea that at least some of the "sea peoples" may have come from the western Mediterranean.

[@ebell404]

Thanks for doing an episode on the Bronze Age Collapse! I appreciate your take on the subject. It's one of my favorite historical eras, and I hope we'll dig up more evidence in the future.

[@ghouldishanimal]

Ramses: You know what they say, history is written by the victors! Sea Peoples: Written?

[@TransSappho]

One thing I find interesting is that a substantial amount of the Mycaenean forces settling the Levant seem to have done so as a reaction to a similar societal collapse in their own homelands. The entire Bronze Age collapse seems to have been a chain reaction at multiple levels, both administrative and in terms of migration

[@tonybrowneyed8277]

in crete, they found 80 sites, or more, were entire villages moved to a mountain top to better defend themselves, around that time. it is very like that some of the cretans joined with the invders. if you cannot beat them...

[@r0ky_M]

A Historical Perspective: 19 A D. Roman General Germanicus toured Egypt visiting the ancient site of Karnak-Luxor, which was already as old as many of the imperial Roman sites we visit today.

[@josephmedina6403]

Germanicus ! That’s a hell of a name .

[@Flasa]

The Sea Peoples are the Cotton-Eye Joe of history: “Where did you come from? Where did you go?”

[@rujerez]

Excelente video. Este es uno de los temas más interesantes de la historia antigua. Una síntesis buenísima de un tópico muy complejo.

[@elimalinsky7069]

Genetic studies have shown that the early Philistines match quite well with the genetics of Mycenean Greeks, while later Philistines are almost indistinguishable from Canaanites, having assimilated and diluted the Greek element in both culture and genetics. I think we can broadly assume that most if not all of the other Sea Peoples came from the Aegean. Whether they were Greek-speaking or Anatolian-speaking initially is up for debate. We can try to extract Lycian from Lukka or Dannan (one of the names used to refer to Greeks in the Homeric epics) from Denyen, but without strong evidence and other independent sources we simply cannot be sure. I personally believe that we actually have a first hand account of the Sea Peoples told from their own perspective, and it's an epic poem called "The Illiad", written about 400 years after the events, and which seems to have echoes of a collective memory from the Mycenean Greek era.

[@AdmiralSnakbar77]

As someone who is hoping to go to grad school to study the LBA Collapse, I really appreciate you making this video

[@rhm35z]

This presentation is the very best I have ever seen involving the "Who were the sea people". Excellent job.

[@EladLerner]

Speaking about the Philistines, can you please make a video about their religion? Who were their deities?

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

This is an excellent idea.

[@Calyrekt]

@@ReligionForBreakfast a video on this topic would be appreciated greatly! ♥️

[@pablogats4627]

@@ReligionForBreakfast weren't the Philistines from Mycenae? I read somewhere that they left their old relegion behind when they settled and mixed with the canaanites, you should def make a video about it

[@PhilloTBillo]

Fast moving, informative video. Perfect.

[@Vanalovan]

I remember reading a paper a few years ago that was emphasizing how superficial the links between Phillistines and Aegean culture was and that it was just as plausible that they were canaanites who had absorbed a lot of cultural influence. I thought their argument was convincing but I’m alway thrilled to hear new information has come out and the link is now more concrete

[@uncannyvalley2350]

As I understand it there's a direct link between the Phillistines and Minoans, both sharing the same love for Purple Seasnail Dye as the Phoenicians

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@علئ ياسر yes, and Canaan and Hebrew both spawned from Phoenician who share an awful lot of cultural connections with the Celts, another mysterious group that we know were skilled mariners from their many colonies. We also know the Galatians were Celtic, which is where we get the sea of Galilee

[@ערביפחור]

@@uncannyvalley2350 the Phoenicians had a burgundy color/dye, which they brought from the Arabian gulf. It is the same color on the Qatari flag 🇶🇦

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@ערביפחור Tyrian purple, also known as Phoenician red, Phoenician purple, royal purple, imperial purple, or imperial dye, is a reddish-purple natural dye. The name Tyrian refers to Tyre, Lebanon. It is secreted by several species of predatory sea snails in the family Muricidae, rock snails originally known by the name 'Murex'.

[@ערביפחור]

@@uncannyvalley2350 it was neither purple nor red, it was Burgundy. They extracted it from a species of Shellfish found almost exclusively in the Arabian gulf. Both Herodotus and 400 years later Strabo wrote that the Phoenicians come from eastern Arabian Peninsula.

[@YellowFacedMunchkin]

@Epimetheus covered the Sea People extensively. Very worthwhile to watch.

[@froggystyle642]

It's always good to remember that just like the Bronze Age Mediterranean, our way of life is not certain to continue indefinitely. Especially these days. Parallels can be drawn RIGHT NOW, even if things are contextually different.

[@DzinkyDzink]

There is a major difference though - a concept of scientific method had been formulated and it yeiled exponential growth over the past 200+ years. People know what it is and that it can bring tremendeous power with it. Any leader worth a damn will try to pursue it and it will make them stronger than the rest. In a sense one could say that a new God was born. One that can challenge the primordial Gods of Elements and everpresent Gods of Social Laws...

[@Sikader]

Yes, if you get an eruption of the volcano in Santorini again (or Pinatumbo or any other large volcano) our way of life shall change dramatically...

[@juniorloaf12]

Eric Cline has a fantastic presentation on this topic found easily on KZbin

[@Magplar]

Absolutely in love with your content and way of presenting it. 10/10

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

The bronze age just tickles the imagination like no other point in history!

[@nosuchthing8]

Maybe because we are close to an information collapse

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

@@nosuchthing8 Erm... Probably not. I don't think anything short of nuclear war would cause a comparable decline. Not to say things couldn't go very badly, just not "civilization disappears" bad.

[@nosuchthing8]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 a coronal ejection from the sum could wipe out and and all electronics. No electricity anywhere. That could do it.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

@@nosuchthing8 Even if a significant EMP happened, it wouldn't really be the end of civilization since most of those electronics could be repaired, albeit it would be a hassle.

[@nosuchthing8]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 it could be repaired, but it could take a long time to rebuild all those transformers and such

[@Palemagpie]

I still think it was the Irish, they've been breeding their way across the face of the earth since they first worked out how to get on a boat.

[@matthewwallack601]

“Who were the Sea Peoples?” Are we sure they weren’t actually the C-Peoples, a group of students with 2.0 GPA’s?

[@rtlgrmpf]

The C-Peoples? Driven out of their homelands by the C++-Peoples. Burning down the mighty and ancient FORTRAN and COBOL empires. Okay, okay, I find out myself...

[@brucenorman8904]

A bunch of frat boys prone to mass alcohol consumption, debauchery, and violence

[@feligv729]

😂

[@usergiodmsilva1983PT]

Shardana warriors also display some weapons and helmets similar to iron age warriors from Sardinia. But, like you said they could have settled there after the collapse.

[@pino2483]

there is no evidence of an invasion or political instability in Sardinia until much later

[@goatsun1300]

Most of our monuments and archaeological finds in Sardinia are from the bronze age, so it was probably our wealthiest age in ancient history not only because of commerce, many of those finds are "military" related

[@shahana_style]

Mother of Mothers, Mistress of Delights, Lady of the Stars... Hathor has always been my role model. Thank you for making a great video i can share with newbies.

[@mr.nonamanadus4463]

Climate change was the leading cause for so many civilizations collapsing at once. Economic failure in an agrarian society would hit hard, purchasing power disappears and famine strikes. This would cause large migrations pushing people into already occupied territories (which in themselves are experiencing the same thing). This leads to reoccurring wars as people are fighting over the same resources. What part is missing in the video (if there is information available) is how the far western parts of the Mediterranean were coping (consistent crop failures). Typically roving bands of marauders should not be able to defeat established empires that themselves are founded on conquest. Economic failure caused by low food production is probably the root of the Bronze Age Collapse.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Question is what was the cause, there seems to be a correlation to the eruption of Santorini, and the whole region is volcanic, but the official timeline doesn't match up, unless we were to adjust it by about 150 years. It's plausible the ash has affected carbon dating and fluffing the results, but it's also plausible there was another event with larger implications

[@Randomuuzv]

Here we go with that climate change bs

[@raider363]

In my ancient bronze age history class in college I actually attempted to write a research paper aboit the sea peoples but quickly realized my university just didn't have enough sources to do so. All our data bases only had a couple of references. Very fascinating topic that really shows how sometimes, with history, we just don't know.

[@mako9986]

Would you ever consider doing a video on the Cathars? Or recommend any particular viewing/reading on the topic?

[@kenweidemoyer2221]

Very well done and Thanks. I learned a lot.

[@fallenCat5]

According to a documentary I saw on TV a long time ago, a serious lead pollution problem occurred in the Northern Hemisphere as a result of Santorini's ancient undersea volcanic eruption. Perhaps the BBC documentary in the UK. At that time, Santorini had a Mediterranean international trade market, where lead was used as a weight.Those weight were vaporized by the heat of volcanic eruptions and spread to the northern hemisphere with volcanic ash. Then even in Ireland(?Iceland) and elsewhere, the growth of trees almost stopped for several years. People who deal with the collapse of the Bronze Age on KZbin don't really mention this. Of course, there's dispute about the time of that eruption, but it's said that the trees didn't grow around 1500 bc, maybe. Before and after the Hyksos era, there were signs of eruptions of volcanos in Ethiopia, which could have caused pests and drought in Egypt. And I think this is important, after that disaster people around santorini stopped believing "old God". Sadly I cannot provide evidence now, but there should be, guess. ////// Although the cause of the sinking is unknown, a huge amount of copper was found on a ship that sank during that time. If the raw material of thousands of bronze swords was on its way to cities that were trying to arm themselves to survive in chaos, the cities that didn't get the copper would have been destroyed.(From "Study of Antiquity and the Middle Ages")

[@thefreshvince879]

the hekla 3 eruption in iceland is more significant

[@TheScandoman]

Don't forget, Iceland has its own volcanoes...in addition to volcanoes in Italy, Sicily, and somewhere else, in between...and other mega-eruptions across the world have affected weather and plant growth, world-wide...

[@creatorsremose]

I love how the Bronze Age collapse is mirrored in modern times. We're experiencing (the beginnings of) a gradual collapse these days, followed by hordes of refugees into European cities, often instigating vandalism and personal crimes (not because they're bad people, unclench, but because harsh conditions in a foreign environment often lead to desperation). This trend is only worsened by contemporary social decay stemming from (among other things) lack of identity and culture. All this has happened before and is happening again. I simply find this poetically symmetrical.

[@hokeywolf3416]

Thankfully, they aren't organized(yet). It's harder to sneak up on anyone today like they were able to then.

[@jonathanbyrdmusic]

I’ve always wondered if the Vikings were also a lot more mellow, and we just think they were brutal and relentless because they didn’t write about themselves.

[@davidkinnear1905]

We have a lot of information about them actually, both from primary and secondary sources. And yes, they were much more mellow compared with say the Irish in the middle ages.

[@brucewaite3733]

Sometimes i wonder if that's the army of Agamemnon. The way the story of the Odyssey ends, an army that essentially won, but most it's leadership could easily have gone on a rampage

[@mrvnoble]

This is a good historical example of correlation not being causation. The relationship between the invasion of the sea people and the bronze age collapse are not simple causation. They could be reversed, both caused by other factors, or entirely coincidence! Data inconclusive.

[@MatthewQuigley]

Very well there may be causation behind the correlation. You just don’t know if A caused B or B caused A. A common problem in my field of science which is geology.

[@nosuchthing8]

I prefer the peaches and poison ivy example. Poison ivy blooms when peaches do, but eating peaches doesn't give you poison ivy.

[@ScenicFilms]

Great presentation! I enjoyed it very much. I'm glad we're unwrapping the scapegoating and looking deeper into the archaeological evidence of these peoples.

[@MrNickMulgrave]

Isn't The Illiad the story of 'The Sea Peoples' invading the city of Troy? In the Iliad, the Greek Catalogue lists twenty-nine contingents under 46 captains, accounting for a total of 1,186 ships. The Sea People were most likely the coalition of Achaean city states as described by Homer.

[@stuckupcurlyguy]

Nah. Too simple.

[@TrueFork]

Most likely the sea people were displaced by the migrants who fled Atlantis

[@ne0nmancer]

@@TrueFork Atlantis is a myth

[@VergiliosSpatulas]

@@ne0nmancer Or so you think.

[@eodyn7]

@@ne0nmancer It's in the Pegasus Galaxy.

[@culturescience8458]

Great editing and pleasant presentation

[@helpconflict9851]

everything changed when the sea people attacked

[@formulahank1250]

I like to imagine that their identity was lost in the Library of Alexandria, but I’m not sure if there’s anything to that

[@scaevolaludens679]

I don't quite remember which one but I'm pretty sure one Greek source mentioned Sardinia taking its name from the Shardana, since it was one of their major ports but not necessarily their place of origin. It's also noticeable that greek lacking a SH sound would make Shardania and Sardania the same. Also, pre-roman sardinian bronze figurines often display headgear with feathers or horns and some other artifacts are shared with the rest of the mediterranean but that a lot of commerce was taking place at the time is no secret

[@tonybrowneyed8277]

little factoid: the ancient hebrew sources would write the "plst" name with "Ph" or "F" sound character. hence the filistine-palestine (as the romans called them) dicotomy.

[@helenamcginty4920]

We most of us love a mystery and I love a good story. I have heard several historians and archaeologists speak on this topic Thank you for your clear and concise summary of the main points. I liked your maps as well.

[@grapeshot]

I know that people theorized that they could be the Philistines. Since the Philistines originated on the islands off the coast of Greece.

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

Indeed. The Philistines were almost certainly one of the Sea Peoples.

[@skepticalorganism6007]

@@ReligionForBreakfast You don't have any proof of it...philistines maybe an imaginary race created by judeans to complete their scripture, infact I think judeans are all descendants of the so called philistines...

[@josephlaferriere4515]

No. They were centuries apart. Most historians say the Philistines were refugees from the Trojan War. Sea Peoples came from farther west, mostly Italy.

[@skepticalorganism6007]

@@josephlaferriere4515 refugees from trojan war? why wud anyone leave anatolia and move to arid canaan? makes zero sense...also trojans were long gone before philistines appear...

[@josephlaferriere4515]

@@skepticalorganism6007 Why would refugees flee a war zone? I can think of reasons

[@waltersstreet]

This channel never fails to be fascinating

[@videosefilmes22]

It's a good day when religion for breakfast posts a video

[@fratercontenduntocculta8161]

We're so fortunate that Egyptians covered every surface with writing!

[@kirstencorby8465]

Great video. You explain it very well. I enjoy your content on the ancient world. I studied ancient history in college. TFS. Have you read the novel The Black Ships, by Jo Graham? It tells this very tale, the Bronze Age Collapse, through the aftermath of the Trojan War. I love fiction about the Bronze Age.

[@kinanbarakat775]

This is the best video I watched about the sea people, amazing work

[@DavidJamesHenry]

The human geographical motivations that led to the Sea Peoples' migration likely also had an impact on the large civilizations

[@docbrosk]

Thoughtful, balanced and informative. I am impressed.

[@barrybarlowe5640]

I believe they were the people called "Philistines" in the Bible. The last nation of these people was Carthage which was destroyed by Rome. The peculiar headresses seen in the artwork, may be limed hair, to make them look bigger and more threatening to their adversaries. Some German and Celtics warriors did this as well, and may have picked up the idea from Hannibal when he came at Rome with his elephants, through the Alps. There is also a common God here. The Philistines worshiped several: Dagon was the principle Philistines God in the Middle East, but, as I recall, Baal, was also mentioned. Baal was a main deity of Carthage whom Hanni-Baal, was named for. Germania tribes worshipped Wotan, Tiw and Donar, but you find references here and there of Bel, God of fire, which might be a corruption of Baal. Bel is principle a Celtics God, and at that time, Celts ruled Gaul, some parts of Britain and Ireland. All of these were potential markets for the Sea Peoples.

[@aa4a-a4]

The Carthagenians were Phoenician, not Philistine

[@juliamacdonald3767]

Great presentation. Concise, well illustrated, well spoken. Very interesting. Thanks.

[@hrizonsdebbie]

Great video. More on BCE Sardinia and Mediterranean, please!

[@MartijnVos]

Still no definitive answer to who the Sea Peoples were! But linking the Philistines to Greece is new to me, so that's nice.

[@melomateus_m.r]

Random Bronze Age person: "Now, you see people..." Bronze Age people: "Did you just say 'sea people'?

[@SmashingCapital]

Thats a cool photo at 4:30

[@Thessalin]

Awesome information and wonderful work. This topic has always fascinated me since I studied a little bit of this for a book character background. Thanks!

Archaeology is such an act of love towards the human race. Like a love letter to the entire population of this sacred planet. And one of the great things about it is that it is all so factual.💙

[@liamredmill9134]

The horned helmet's are key,and the description of them as an island confederation,and the plausible story involves the tin trade empires (Sardinia being an ancient source,and trading empire)Corsica had an advanced horn Helmut and metallurgy and trade(look for bronze statuettes wearing horned hats,also in common with Greece)great show,thanks

[@JCShadow0202]

Bronze Age Citizen - Who attacked Bronze Age Citizen - idk some people Bronze Age Citizen - Where they come from? Bronze Age Citizen - The Sea Bronze Age Citizen - THOSE DAMN SEA PEOPLE

[@The_Cooler_Will]

This reminds me of *Iltam Zumra Rashupti Ilatim*

[@kuweit]

Bronze age memers when someone says bronze age (it's a bronze age memes reference):

[@odmcclintic]

The best informational and concise video on the the "sea peoples". Thank you!

[@algepaca]

This is just long enough to get me through the rest of my trail ride home from an exhausting convention day lol. Perfect timing! :D

[@danielescobar7618]

Great advice from Cyprus. "Hey if you get in a fight, it's prosperous to not lose"

[@gentlerat]

I'm curious about theories regarding the sea peoples' relationship to the legends that the later Greek people would attach to the probably mostly fictional Trojan War and its aftermath. I remember seeing someone theorizing that some of these events or general circumstances got remembered in faint form as the "lying" version Odysseus tells of his travels in The Odyssey when trying to pose as other people. It seems like it's hard to speculate, and probably a stretch, but it might be a parallel to how stories about King Arthur ended up getting attached to a period of British history that in reality seems to have also been a period of collapse and decline.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Arthur comes from Attis, and Thor, Phoenician Gods, which is why he has 12 Knights on a round table, and references Karmelot, named for the Karmel mountains above Tyre, which means Rock, and sat just offshore from Urshu Shalom, City of the New Moon, the root word of Jerusalem. The 13 signifies the 13 starsigns, being 13 points that encompass 12 signs. Also because the concept of zero didn't appear until 3BC. This is why 13 has such an esoteric importance, especially to Masons, Tyre being one of two key centers Freemasonry, the other being Thebes. The story of the Trojan War may be real, it happens at the same time as the battle of Qadesh, near Tyre, but takes the form of the Zodiac, with Philostetes being bitten on the ankle on Lemnos island, home to the Cult of Hephaestus and the Bronze Serpent, later using the venom to lace the arrow he strikes Archilles ankle with. These are both reference to Orion and Eradinus, and probably allude to the 2.5 year Metonic cycle (it's smallest form) because all religious allegory encodes the Zodiac and the seasonal calendar. There is also a bas relief carving on an old Fortress wall at Tyre depicting Archilles being held up by his ankle.

[@Baccanaso]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Thor isn't Phoenician and Arthur is based off 2 people, Lucius Artorius a legendary Roman Prefect of Britannia once they stopped receiving help from the western empire, and Charlemagne which is where the round table and Excalibur ultimately come from.

[@brixcosmo]

Great Doc! Best Regards from Portugal ❤🇵🇹

[@kactus_3008]

The Sea People myth was pretty well described by Greek epic poem Odiseea, where the Argonauts left Greece in seek for the golden fleece. They returned eventually and seemingly no one could recognize them. That because MY PERSONAL BELIEF is they had mixed with Cananites thus forming the Phoenician mariners...

[@JohnTheStun]

Can't really use "IMO" for anything though. Archaeological and historical evidence all point towards the sea peoples originating from southern Europe.

[@chrism7199]

Hi it’s a good theory, but just to make sure: the Odessy ( Οδύσσεια) was one of the 12 parts of the epic cycle . It described Odysseus 10 year trip home to Ithaca after the Trojan war. Best estimates date his trip to 1250 BC. The Argonautica (Αργοναυτική Εκστρατεία ) is a separate Greek legend which took place a generation before ( maybe 50 years) that of the Trojan war. It highlighted the round trip adventure of Jason and the Argonauts to modern day Georgia , back up through the Danube and back down to Greece. This trip was estimated around 1300 BC

[@kactus_3008]

@@chrism7199 Thank you for your argument, Chris! There is lots of sea wondering, don't you think? What in the world had happened between 1250 and 1300 that startled a rather sedentary population to become a race of mercenaries?!

[@chrism7199]

@@kactus_3008 That’s the million dollar question.. it’s great stuff I love ancient mysteries.

[@aymenhjj322]

there is a connection between the Sea Peoples and the Amazigh people of North Africa. The Sea Peoples were a group of seafaring raiders and invaders who were active in the eastern Mediterranean region during the late Bronze Age, approximately between the 13th and 12th centuries BCE. While the exact origins and identities of the Sea Peoples are still debated among historians and archaeologists, some theories suggest that they may have included various groups from different regions. One theory proposes that the Sea Peoples included some Amazigh tribes from North Africa, along with other groups from the Aegean, Anatolia, and other Mediterranean regions.