Removing a glued in saddle from a Martin guitar

[@jimmyfranklin3862]

Very good. I have a glued in saddle on my 1952 Gibson J45. It needs to be replaced. Thanks so much!

[@thisNewFoundLand]

...thanks so much for taking the time to make your knowledge accessible! i bought a 1969 Kasuga 12 string (Japan) with a passive pickup installed sometime along the way. Amazing sound -- but the action was ridiculous above the 5th fret. After working the saddle a few minutes with no results, your vid made the difference. i used a hair dryer for heat source -- pretty hot air -- and it took about 2 minutes for the saddle to release. No glue on this unit; but it was really stuck. Anyway, all that to say thanks again and people may find a hairdryer will also yield results. i masking-taped the bridge* and used two heavy notebooks to protect the guitar itself. Subscribed.

[@Bryankimsey]

Check your neck relief too?

[@thisNewFoundLand]

@@Bryankimsey ...hey, thanks very much for responding. Yes, i adjusted the truss rod over a couple of days before going at the saddle. i am no luthier lol, but i like buying guitars cheap (here in Japan) and slowly getting them to a good, playable condition. My favourite acoustics are Pearl (made by Hayashi) -- early 70s, but so many of those "lawsuit guitars" rank up with a Gibson imho. Good luck with your work. Thanks again, and be well.

[@scottcarruthers5127]

THANK YOU!! Worked like a champ. Popped right out!

[@topfloorstudio2684]

I laughed when you said you drop tools on guitars...... I do the same thing! That's quite a large collection of pulled saddles! Great instructional video, thanks!

[@ethanemerald9667]

Wow thats simple but amazing....thank you for sharing it....

[@SurferSix]

That video was really helpful. Thanks! 👍

[@jimkif4110]

Thanks Bryan...nice to see it done before I attempt it myself. The work`s not as much fun if your stressin` regarding possible damage.

[@Dang...]

thanks! very informative and helpful!

[@ReverendGuyWallis]

great job. now if i can just find the patience..... new subscriber here :) good stuff

[@michaelaiello9525]

Thanks Brian ,, anything different I might expect from a 60’s classical guitar? It’s a Harmony and seems to be plastic. Any additional suggestions? Thanks!

[@Bryankimsey]

Plastic is going to melt under heat. I'd run a little hot water on each side of the saddle and let it soak in for half hour or so. That'll loosen everything but superglue and I doubt they used that in the 60s

[@michaelaiello9525]

@@Bryankimsey sweet! Thanks Meistro!!!

[@michaelaiello9525]

That heat lamp worked perfect. I got a bit impatient and cracked the plastic, but no loss. The glue also had an almost PVA gooberish quality that took a while to scrape out, but the plastic didn’t come close to melting and everything else was unscathed. Thanks Brian

[@barters8124]

Good video. Many thanks,

[@BradleyMcTaggart]

Spiffy huh? I love it Bryan! Cheers!

[@dennispurdy3533]

this is a 2 year old video but I have to wonder, doesn't the heat from the lamp soften the glue holding the bridge down? I would think it would and it might be a good idea to wait a few days before re stringing. But as you have done hundreds this way it must be OK.

[@Bryankimsey]

Not if you place the shields well. You can scoot them out of the way and feel the bridge if you're concerned. Also, I'm clamping the new saddle in place and that will clamp the bridge back down (if it was hot), too. No need to wait a few days.... even fresh glue should be good to after 8 hours or so of drying.

[@dennispurdy3533]

OK, thanks @@Bryankimsey

[@9jmorrison]

Your favorite pliers are tile nippers

[@sIRFuNkiFiingeRsFattkatmatt]

Love this guy

[@GIBKEL]

I hope my question isn’t redundant-how close did you place the lamp? I’m Handy ‘enough’ but got an old war horse I have to perform this procedure on. Not sure if it’s hide or super-just looked and it’s hide! Woo-hoo! Love it. Thanks for the rare look at this process.

[@Bryankimsey]

It varies. I watch the bridge and see how it's doing. If it smokes- and some will because of oils from skin and the wood itself- I back it off. If I want to work on a small section, a lot of times I block everything but that that section and move the lamp in. In _general_, I'd say about 8" to start. As I show in the video, I also check under the protectors after a minute or two and make sure nothing funny is going on.

[@Gerthebard]

Hi Bryan, great vid as usual. May I ask you a question regarding my D28, which I bought new in Dublin 2001? I’d like to lower the action a little, and as I’m new to this guitar maintenance thing, I bought a tusk replacement saddle with the intention of using my original bone one as a template. I figured if I replicate the original, then sand it down the worst that can happen is just replace the original. Right? Question is this. Is the original one glued in, it’s tight and I don’t want to force it. It’s a drop in saddle, and I heard that Martin glued these in, if for export. Any advice would be appreciated. My intention is to practice on the tusk one, then when happy with action, and my confidence, perform the sanding on the original bone saddle and use it. Many thanks, Gerry.

[@Bryankimsey]

I have no idea if it's glued in or not... but that's the first I've ever heard of gluing in export saddles. It IS likely to be pretty tight. Why not just get a handful of bone blanks on eBay and skip the Tusq? When you get done, you might have a nice bone saddle. Tusq is soft and will groove quickly.

[@Gerthebard]

Thanks for your reply, I never even thought of buying bone blanks. Makes sense though. That’s the way forward, and they’re now ordered. Again many thanks for all you upload, it’s very informative and helpful to us keen novices in guitar maintenance.

[@squatter24]

Excellent video - thank you!

[@guitarhome3929]

Grateful

[@9jmorrison]

I wonder if an iron and a heated artist knife would be faster and better.

[@Bryankimsey]

I've pulled around 800 saddles with this technique and it is overall the way I prefer. You can figure out a different way if you want. Some people like a soldering iron...I don't want to stand there and hold it. What are you going to use the artist knife for? It's not going to fit between the saddle and bridge, if that's what you're thinking.

[@ensan3581]

You're a legend!! Thank you

[@tommcdonald1746]

Great video. I have a 1997 D-18 VM and I want to lower the action. Would you know on this model if the saddle is bone or micrata and if Martin would have used hide glue or super glue? Also, you mentioned your customer would have 2 saddles and when he decides which one he wants he'll glue it in. Question, is gluing absolutely required?

[@Bryankimsey]

Micarta, superglue. No, gluing isn't absolutely necessary. It just gives a completely solid connection between the saddle and bridge, and adds some strength. I'm in the business of making things as good as I can and prefer glued saddles.

[@tommcdonald1746]

@@Bryankimsey thank you and I was affraid you would say super glue. If the micarta saddle can be saved would you reuse it or switch to a bone saddle? BTW...anybody who watches your videos know you always do it right.

[@Bryankimsey]

Micarta gives a smooth warm sound. Bone gas more bite and treble. I'm going with bone. The question I have is...if it's the right height to reuse, then why are you removing it? If you're adjusting height, you should be doing that from the top and not having to remove the saddle at all. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWnXoqyPerSmkNU

[@tommcdonald1746]

@@Bryankimsey I agree if I wanted to keep the micarta the height adjustment should be from the top, I mainly wanted your opinion between the two saddles. Because if I switch to bone it might require a new nut.

[@Bryankimsey]

Why's that? Your but is Corian and it's decent enough stuff. Nut and saddle don't have to match.

[@silvrface]

Hi Bryan - :I know you've had to stop taking work in, I'm hoping you check in on video comments/questions. What about a glued-in saddle on a vintage ukulele where finish (usually lacquer; periodically shellac) is applied over the saddle? It needs to be replaced because owners attempted to install several modern string sets without without widening the slots that separate the strings, wearing them down at the edges; each pair comes out of a single slot and spits at the saddle over about 7/16", with the pairs separated about 1/8" at the saddle(the saddle top about 1/16" above the bridge top). This is if everything is working as d After trying to jam .036" and .032" strings into slots intended for much smaller strings (thinner gut octave strings or thinner pairs tuned in unison) the slots have worn from the usual rectangular shape into "V" or " U" shapes. Those won't hold the strings in place so they end up with the thicker one of each pair sitting on top of the high octave string, or the high octave is just fine but the thicker/lower octave string just sits on top of the saddle (or in a shallow groove worn over time). Either one causes buzzing and kills sustain. Depending on the customer's specific needs, I can cut new saddle designed for a thick/thin pair for octave-tuned strings, or cut it for "in between" gage unison-tuned pairs. I use the same system as yours on guitars and MOST tenor and baritone-size ukes( which have bone or synthetic saddles) but the smaller sizes and some older models have finish applied over the bridge after the saddle is installed. The saddles are virtually all maple, mahogany, and less commonly koa. I've applied preliminary heat, then scored the edges before pulling; I've tried adding a small amount of hot water and/or steam to the opened "seams" but usually end up with such bad blush that the bridge requires refinishing. In many other cases the saddle has split when pulled. Then the usual solution is with grinding it flush with the top & routing a new slot with a pin router and installing a new saddle (hand-cutting the slot is tedious and more difficult than using the pin router (note: a standard, Trim or Dremel tool router isn't really accurate enough.) I apologize for the lengthy explanation, but I thought some other techs or luthiers may run into the same issues. I was curious if you (or a watcher) had run into the "coated" and/or wood saddles, and how you deal with them. I've always found your work and advice to be spot-on!

[@Bryankimsey]

That's a complicated and unique deal. First thing I'd want to know is "why is the bridge finished over? And does it need to _stay_ that way?" Let's assume it does for whatever reason. The saddle is wood? I'd probably just route it out. I'm surprised that a trim router isn't accurate enough... that's what I use for Martin saddles. You're going to use a bit smaller than the saddle anyway so that you don't widen the slot. Route 95% of the saddle out and use a micro-chisel to remove the rest. You could maybe also use the Frank Ford method of trimming the saddle flush and then using a thin saw to cut down the middle. Use a chisel to then fold the saddle in and remove. I dunno... to be honest, I'd probably just refuse the job since I have plenty of 70's Martins to work on and this a specialized, headache-inducing job that I probably don't have the patience or expertise to do. :)

[@silvrface]

@@Bryankimsey These are all ukuleles - I wasn't clear about that - and applying finish over the entire top with saddle in place was the standard method used by Martin (and many others) on the soprano (the most popular) and concert (far easier to play!) size ukes. My own collection of Matin ukes runs from 1917-1960's; one 1917 is an 8-string Taro Patch, which I'll need to deal with soon - I'm a typical mechanic with the car that is held together with chewing gum and wire - or who has others work on it...why do you think I had you do MY neck resets when I have 3 in the queue here I'll be doing?!! (snicker) ). And to clarify - the pin router has been the best as it's most accurate ( was saying the "hand held" types weren't suitable. I agree with the center-saw/chisel method and have used it as when there's been no hurry - my post was just getting to be a novel as-is so I left it out. I have an old fret saw used only for non-specific width work, but I still take way too much time and am overly anal with it! ;-)

[@Bryankimsey]

You're hand-holding the router? I figured you'd use a jig for it.

[@silvrface]

@@Bryankimsey arg - I left out that detail. Yes, a jig is used with any of them - I only meant “hand-held” to describe the size of the tool!

[@Bryankimsey]

I gotchya! As opposed to a "wall-mounted computer driven CNC router". This uke thing is interesting. I had no idea. Then again, I'm not really a "luthier" in spite of my logo. I have not worked on a single lute, yet!! And very few violins. And I _have_ worked on a few non-wooden carbon fiber things. And now I'm wondering if "banjos" count as a "musical instrument". luthier noun 1) One that makes or repairs stringed instruments, such as violins. 2) One who makes wooden stringed instruments, such as violins, guitars, etc. 3) A person who, or a business which, makes or repairs stringed wooden musical instruments, such as lutes, violins, and guitars.

[@MAP448]

I thought these weren't supposed to be glued in originally from the factory? I have a 1963 00-18 Martin guitar that my Grandfather had bought brand new back in 63 or 64 from a local music store in Ashland, KY. It has never had any work done to it & I've been told that the bridge saddles were not glued in when they left the factory. I am trying to find out if this is true?

[@Bryankimsey]

Long saddles were glued with hide glue. Short saddles were not. Who told you they weren't?

[@MAP448]

@@Bryankimsey Im not going to say whom, but it was obviously people who really didn't know. I thank you for sharing this information. Hide Glue makes a ton of sense, since that is what they were using at the time. This whole world is full of misinformation on just about any/every subject there is under the moon. Thanks for setting the record straight.

[@sagatacity]

Hey man .. need your help!! Have you ever changed the saddle from right to left ??!! So I mean to create an opposite diagonal channel to fit in it with a lefty saddle of course ... Any chance to do it ??!!

[@Bryankimsey]

Easy. Fill the slot, re-cut to a left. You need to change the nut, too.

[@Bryankimsey]

I have one coming in this week for this exact thing.

[@jefferyclark351]

Enjoy the heck out on your videos. Say can you do this procedure if it has a plastic saddle probably super glued in.

[@Bryankimsey]

I've never seen a plastic saddle glued in. Micarta, yes. You'll melt plastic off you heat it.

[@johnspiro692]

Hey Bryan, great info on your Chanel. I have a 2018 hd28 and wanted a through saddle on it. How would you go about that. Would you alter the existing bridge or put a whole new bridge in? It’s something I would like for this guitar. Thanks

[@Bryankimsey]

I'd fill the current slot with ebony and then re-cut right on the guitar. At this point in this video, you can see me cut a short slot in a bridge on the guitar. I talk about cutting a long saddle, too. Many times on current Martin long saddles (which are really long DROP-IN saddles and not true vintage slots), I'll fill and re-cut to get the real vintage look (and maybe sound?). kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4mYq2mtoJl2b9k

[@johnspiro692]

Great !! Thanks for the info. How much would you charge for something like that? It has an under saddle pickup fisherman Matrix.

[@Bryankimsey]

$75, which includes a new saddle. You'll have to lose the UST, though. Won't work well with a long saddle. Go with a K&K (which I sell). Any decent luthier can do this job, though.

[@peanutavalon]

That looks pretty darn easy. I'm not totally happy with my KK mini in my GE. I do like the Fishman UST in my d-18 standard. How much extra saddle work is needed to install a UST pickup? They just work better for me in a live setting. I have tried all sorts of eq-ing with the KK. It sounds good but not my cup of tea. Thanks

[@Bryankimsey]

I hate UST's, myself. First, with the K&K are you using a K&K pre-amp? Because if not, you should as the impedance needs to match and Baggs, etc do not match K&K. If I were gonna run a UST in a GE, I'd fill in the saddle slot ends and covert it to a short-drop in saddle.

[@peanutavalon]

thanks for the info...yes I tried the KK preamp...I guess my guitar is just so bass heavy and I can't get rid of the low end feedback. I may just move it on....thanks

[@sainproduction6575]

Is guleing saddle on guitar changes sound

[@Bryankimsey]

I think so.

[@tricktaylor1983]

Im lefty. Once paid $400 for a luther to reroute a saddle slot for lefty innotation on a $400 guitar. Used to own multiple "Saddleboy acoustic guitar modification kits." It comtained a piece of plastic/bone that fit into a standard righty saddle slot that had a lefty saddle sitting on it. Also came with a lefty bone nut. I loved them but they arent sold anywhere any more. Even the UK where i got a couple and it was invented. How hard is it to replace the entire bridge for a lefty? I cant see how its harder than taking a matching piece of wood to glue in existing spot and then rerouting the saddle slot for a lefty ever so carefully as to not cut too deep, inevitably, hpothetically, ruining the guitar. I can see doing this on a guitar that is too old and expensive to try and remove the bridge entirely.

[@Bryankimsey]

I fill and reroute slots all the time. $75. See the HD 28 videos for an example. $150 for a new bridge. Your guy overcharged. A lot do.

[@juanmigueldelrosario9224]

I cant remove mine. Its glued with super glue. Is it really hard to pull when it is glued with super glue?

[@Bryankimsey]

Yup, harder to do. Pretty much all stock Martin long saddles are super-glued in. I've removed 100's, though, and only broke 3 (saddles....not bridges).

[@rravelvicentaa8036]

What do you call that tool its a flat thing that you use

[@Bryankimsey]

The spatula? www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Chisels_and_Knives/Bridge_Fingerboard_Removal_Knife.html

[@chill1992ful]

Have a Martin OO-18 (2017) which I attempted to remove the saddle for an adjustment but it would not budge, didn't want force to much, Question is the saddle glued in or tight in the slot? I'm original owner and saddle is factory,

[@Bryankimsey]

Are the ends of the saddle round or square? If round, not glued. If square, glued and will take a lot of heat.

[@chill1992ful]

@@Bryankimsey They are rounded at the tops so it seems it is not glued just extremely tight .., do you have a video on easing out a tight fitting saddle? or a recommendation ? thanks for the reply

[@Bryankimsey]

@@chill1992ful I use the same fret cutters I use here and just grip if firmly and wiggle it from E to E (not from bridge to nut). They can be TIGHT. Which I don't really like 'cause what happens when the bridge swells from humidity?

[@davidheenan7432]

Hi Brian, I want to remove the saddle from my D28 and sand it down a bit to lower the action. I dont have access to a heat lamp. Is it possible to remove it by just applying a few drops of boiling water around the saddle? Thanks!

[@Bryankimsey]

Depends... it's probably not glued in with hide glue and water won't do anything with superglue. Get a lamp off Amazon for $13. B003XV8QOU Get a lamp for $10: B000PSJNFK Less than $25 and you have the right tools. You can TRY a soldering iron but you''ll probably burn the saddle with direct heat contact. Acetone will dissolve superglue and will _instantly_ dissolve finish so I never use it. If in doubt... don't do it. BUT... you don't have to even remove the saddle to adjust the action. This is the safest way yet!!! : kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWnXoqyPerSmkNU

[@davidheenan7432]

@@Bryankimsey thank you Bryan for the useful info. I have never taken a saddle down from the top before, but I will watch the video with interest.

[@davidheenan7432]

@@Bryankimsey If I want 0.100 at the low E and 0.07 at the high E, what action should the A D G B srings be set at? Thanks.

[@davidheenan7432]

BTW Bryan the D28 is a conversion built by the Bros. Has a long slotted saddle a la 1937 spec with HHG. I bought a bottle of the titebond hide glue to re glue it back in, but Im not sure whether to take it down from top or just sand down the bottom.

[@Bryankimsey]

Even steps in between. That's a .030" difference for 5 strings, so .006" from each other. In reality, if you got them .005"-007 from each other, you'll be fine. I also often put the D and G the same. .100, .094, .088, .082, .076, .070. I think .070" is too low for the high E. I'd use .075" and then your steps would be about .005".

[@randelcliff2694]

cool

[@christianmendoza6417]

Thanks dude

[@youjanome]

Hi bry. Can i use wd40 ?

[@bluegrasslives]

THANK YOU MUCH!!!!!

[@drocker66]

is that tinfoil wrapped around carboard?

[@Bryankimsey]

Yup.

[@summitjungrayamajhi2496]

What's the another way than bulb? Plz tell me

[@Bryankimsey]

There is no other good way, IMHO. Some people try using a soldering iron, some try a hot chunk of metal.... etc. Some people cut the saddle in half and chip it out. Heat lamp is the best method I've used, on the whole.

[@drocker66]

Hey Bryan, long time watcher first time subscriber, what if i knew someone hypothetically, was an idiot and stained his martin guitar getting stain in the saddle area and it's stuck would your method work in this situation as well, i guess it could be glue too? hypothetically speaking of course. thank you. oh also you said you had a 240 watt bulb so for 120 watt will that work if i do double the time? - well, that didn't work very well cause i'm an idiot Bryan. OK so i some on some Luther site where a guy drilled into a a broken off saddle slot. Of course I thought, "seems right" surprisingly i actually did it with out touching the actual saddle or guitar. no w i have a bunch of little holes in a broken off saddle slot and it still won't' budge. Any ideas from anyone would be grateful. Besides "bring it to someone who knows what they are doing" first of all, you pay for it , then i'll go i don't have the money or else i would of in the first place. That's why i'm here. thank you.

[@Bryankimsey]

I don't want to say anything because I don't know this "stain" is and I don't want you catching your guitar/house/neighborhood on fire. Explain the "stain" and why it locked the saddle in place.

[@nathanralevski3737]

Does a hair dryer work??

[@Bryankimsey]

Not enough heat and too hard to control it- it'll blow under the guard and you'll heat your top up.

[@elclarence4461]

Actually if u search on google the only need to do is to use pliers and u can get ur glue in saddle i try it on my guitar but still thankyou for this video

[@Bryankimsey]

Good luck with that.

[@Guitaristlife-dn9ou]

I have no tools for this no lights, cardboard with aluminum pliers or anything else

[@stevensmaniaci]

It's not too hard, but it's time-consuming and too many steps.

[@Bonzodogdick]

Hi. I've got a 2014 Custom Shop 000-18 Golden Era 1937. Do you think the long saddle will be glued in with superglue or hide?

[@Bryankimsey]

Super glue. Even authentics are super glue

[@Bonzodogdick]

@@Bryankimsey Thank you.