"The wings haven't fallen off yet" sent shivers down my spine thinking about the PA28 spar failure accidents :( If you get the chance you should see a modern glider spar. We rig and derig them much more frequently and it's educational to get a good look inside your aircraft, as you're doing here :)
@austinformedude2 жыл бұрын
After personally taking an Arrow apart, I will never fly one again. They are built to an absolute minimum spec with zero margin for error. With age, they are just getting worse and worse.
@danosterdahl9988 Жыл бұрын
Hi. I am looking for a used aileron right side for my Piper Pa 28 140 . Or where to find skinmanufacture ?
@joncarlmatthews2 жыл бұрын
Wow! Wasn't expecting the metal spar to look that short! I'll try to keep that image out of my mind the next time i'm up in a PA28...!
@sheldonholy50472 жыл бұрын
PA28 spare aren't the biggest, hence the ADs. Have been a few in flight breakups
@relativenormality2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, when you think about the fact that all the upward force is transferred to the fuselage through that tiny bracket that doesn't go that far in. I wonder if it was larger/longer that is actually more detrimental giving more surface area for flexing of the bracket?
@Robinbamv Жыл бұрын
It is good that you report from the maintenance hangar and show the time that it takes to accomplish the maintenance tasks, There is a large section of the GA community that is convinced that having a maintenance engines license is an easy way to make a living.
@davelee2122 жыл бұрын
Great video. Aero Anglia maintain our PA-28 as well (just out of its annual). Being a bit of a geek, it's really interesting to see what's involved and how much of the aircraft is exposed. No wonder it takes a few weeks to get an annual done!
@anon0815de2 жыл бұрын
I love the calm pace of this video.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
I like it too!
@lawrencemartin11132 жыл бұрын
Until the bit where he is handed the bill....they had to edit that scene out as it was far too distressing!
@TheLincolnshireFlyer2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video Jon. Really like these behind the scenes engineering/maintenance type vids. Hope to see more.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
I agree..it’s fascinating isn’t it. Will endeavour to bring further engineering updates.
@MrAlwaysBlue2 жыл бұрын
That plane must cost more than the NHS to run. You should get a Permit aircraft.
@2bincwrkshop2bincwrkshop872 жыл бұрын
Leak down test is the compressed air. They time how long the cylinder holds above a set psi. Compression test is the manual rotation of the prop to read the peak psi reading. Two similar tests measuring different aspects of cylinder health. As an owner of a PA-28 I found the video interesting and can empathize with the pain in your pocket book.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video. If you fly to save money, you won't get very far!
@JustinBellingerTV2 жыл бұрын
Lovely episode, and good to see the old girl pass with flying colours. Thanks for sharing.
@dhdove2 жыл бұрын
Hi Jon, as an ex GA engineer it’s worth pointing out that your paperwork AD/SB/lifed item checks should be current hours plus 50, thus picking up any items that will fall due before the next check. I presume their software does this automatically.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
I’m certain they will be all over that.
@marc-andremuller19542 жыл бұрын
Here in Canada AD compliance is the owners responsibility and has nothing to do with signing off an annual. I did the research for my aircraft when I purchased it a few years ago and found several ADs that hadn’t been complied with. Luckily nothing too expensive.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
It's quite common I think for these things to be missed. A good maintenance organisation will be very thorough to check compliance. After-all, they're audited regularly to ensure these jobs are done.
@av8tor261 Жыл бұрын
AME here. Before I do any annual inspections I start with a through AWD review. I've found some AWD signed off and after checking I found that they were never done. You have to be careful. It's the owner/operators responsibility. There just way to much "pencil whipping" going on.
@paulmark632 жыл бұрын
Hi John Paul from Orpington great video they do a brilliant job aero anglia keep up the great work
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul. Aero anglia is the best!
@donaldalmeida2483 Жыл бұрын
I always thought that all wing spars ran through the fuselage (rear seat area), wing-to-wing. Thus the reason for the cramped leg room in the rear seat. The U.S.Navy had a land-based twin engine patrol plane called the P2V Neptune. The wing-to-wing spar was so massive, one had to crawl over it from the cockpit to the spacious rear area where the anti-submarine warfare electronic equipment was located. I'm a former PA-28 180 owner (before the AD).
@bencoffman14942 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Ben. Much appreciated.
@kevchilton9082 жыл бұрын
Great video, Jon, full of interesting footage you wouldn’t normally see 👌👏👏👏
@davidwilkinson9882 жыл бұрын
excellent video. my PA28 is still in its annual and now I know whats happening!
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
It's a thorough check!
@XCougar85X2 жыл бұрын
That was a really nice video. really interesting footage. I am not going to lie though. Those tiny stubs that keep the wings on, that was a poper surprise indeed. I mean ofc it is safe but that image really almost scared me.
@musoseven82182 жыл бұрын
Fascinating stuff. Thank you to one and all for your time and efforts in sharing, filming etc. Long time since I've seen this sort of thing, I wasn't as interested back then either😳🙄😄😄 I am now😊👍 May I be indelicate and ask how much such work normally costs (without the wings coming off)? I was pondering the value for money aspect of Eg Light Sport/Microlight categories (perhaps more expensive to buy, but more modern aircraft that are cheaper to maintain and operate) vs GA metal aircraft, such as; C152's, Piper Cherokees, Tomahawks et al (perhaps cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run and to train on/for a licence etc?). These sort of questions will no doubt come to the fore, especially now, re; stagflation, recession, fuel and labour costs, relative to a hobby pilot's, wants, needs and 'mission profile', safety and budget etc.
@FunFlyingPilot2 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed your video greatly. I have nearly identical aircraft. My wing spars were checked and passed last year - only a normal annual this year - I hope.
@davechapman77356 ай бұрын
thanks for a great vid with lots of interesting info, cheers PPL NZ
@sollerovagen2 жыл бұрын
Nice great video, very interesting. thank you
@stratotramp62432 жыл бұрын
Very informative thanks. Regarding the wing attachments. Sometimes the more you know about aviation the less you want to know 🤣
@chrisc1612 жыл бұрын
Just found this channel. Love it. I have the T-tail turbo version so this is so helpful to see.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Welcome aboard.
@The_Flying_Pig2 жыл бұрын
Crazy when you see what's holding something together
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
I know, right!
@romeojames89 Жыл бұрын
My dream is to fly a PA 28 piper Cherokee 👍🏿🥳😎
@asmundlunde77622 жыл бұрын
How he is making this so interesting to watch, is a work of art:)
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Asmund.
@harrymckeever79522 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much Harry.
@Oglongs2 жыл бұрын
Nothing more painful than getting those wing bolts back On and that little plate that sits in the top part of the spar channel that you have to get on first. Enjoy that. Can’t tell you how many of these I’ve done. The pain still there hehehe
@flyingphobiahelp2 жыл бұрын
Great video Jon. Hear of these checks but never seen them in person
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
It's worth spending time watch your mechanic - gives you a whole new perspective.
@brucefox65802 жыл бұрын
I cant fathom that spar holds that wing on, engineering is so great.
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Now we know what VNE is for!
@peterstretton59542 жыл бұрын
I realise my Rotax is not certified but I’m gobsmacked seeing spark plugs being wire brushed. I just change mine every 100 hours. Also I had an inspector who used to test the compressions, he used a standard tester like used on a car, for each cylinder he attached the gauge and turned over on starter. Checked to make sure all cylinders the same. Around 200 psi I seem to remember.
@sheldonholy50472 жыл бұрын
Rotax spark plugs are standard motorcycle spark plugs and cost a few $ each for new ones. New Champion spark plugs for a conti 360 will be about £150 _each_.
@sheldonholy50472 жыл бұрын
Also a compression test like you describe is pointless, a leakdown test is quite different
@WickYTcodm10 ай бұрын
My friend just passed away after the PA28 warrior he was flying broke mid flight ( the right wing broke) on an emergency descend maneuver. If there are any experienced mechanics who could shed some light into how probable is that to happen on a maneuver specially when you are exerting G's on Va, or what to look for on the wing on the pre flight inspection, it would help me ease into training specially now that I'm am training for my CPL and have to do the same maneuvers but on an Archer and always have that incident in the back of my head, thank you.
@johnball48262 жыл бұрын
On your pre-buy inspection did upcoming wing off inspection, enter purchase price discussions ? We would all be interested to know the full price of that Annual inspection ? Certainly owning an LAA aircraft, where you can do you own maintenance to a certain extent makes it far cheaper to run, although admittedly most LAA aircraft are not as complicated as a Turbo Arrow. Your engineer is right, don’t always baby the engine, get it up to altitude and fly at 75%. After all that is why you have the turbo version, not the normally aspirated Arrow 3.
@flyingphobiahelp2 жыл бұрын
Concur. I fly a turbo Saratoga and routinely fly at 75% at 8-10,000”
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Yes, the pre-buy spotted the cracked wing walk and was part of negotiations.
@johnball48262 жыл бұрын
In fact if you read the original flight test on the Arrow Turbo by Alan Bramson in 1977 or 78, he points out that the only reason for buying the Turbo version was to fly high. At lower levels the ordinary Arrow 3 performs just as well, without the complication and higher maintenance of the Turbo. Also in the Arrow 3 you have the very reliable Lycoming IO360 200 Bhp 4 cylinder, which I believe is more reliable and stronger than the Continental IO 360 6 cylinder which has a shorter TBO, but being a 6 cylinder it is smoother. Not that I fly an Archer 180bhp, but those that do will tell you that the performance is not far short of the Arrow, but with less complication and maintenance as fixed prop and fixed undercarriage. That is why it is almost impossible to find one for sale at a sensible price as they are so much in demand, also more capable than a Warrior 160.
@flyingphobiahelp2 жыл бұрын
@@johnball4826 yeah, normally aspirated peak at about 6,000’ MSL above which the turbo starts to shine. My TAS continues increasing the higher I fly (to a point) and with our flying club Saratoga turbo I get 175 kts TAS at 9,000’. Alas, in the 🇬🇧, airspace restrictions (eg airways which are Class A and at altitudes
@marcelflying2 жыл бұрын
Bedankt
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much Marcel for the tip.
@davidnash13262 жыл бұрын
Good video .
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thanks David.
@bmatt26262 жыл бұрын
1:48 I need this in my kitchen.
@austinformedude2 жыл бұрын
They don't call them Paper Pipers for Nothing. The Arrow is easily my least favorite airplane. They glide like a brick, and are not overbuilt by any stretch. Not to mention the Wing Spar issues.
@DeadReckoner2 жыл бұрын
Well that was fascinating. Thanks so much for filming this: every owner is curious to see exactly what happens during maintenance!
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Pleasure.
@RobManser775 ай бұрын
Interesting. I’m a car person, but I’m intrigued by the spark plug testing. Each of my three cars, even the V8, can have all of its plugs replaced for under £15. I’m assuming it’s far more than this for the plane’s engine. Is that right?
@ajpdaniels2 жыл бұрын
My goodness - and I get nervous when my car is in for an MOT and needs an oil & filter change - and the bill after a couple of hours labour!
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
You don't run an aeroplane to save money - same with a classic car really.
@ajpdaniels2 жыл бұрын
@@TheFlyingReporter I know - the point I was making is that I get anxious enough with my £300 quid (usually, hopefully) annual bill on my classic sports car so this must be a different league for you!
@tlangdon12 Жыл бұрын
My experience was that an annual inspection would cost a minium of £2000. Luckily I was a member of a group and there were four of us sharing the cost.
@av8tor261 Жыл бұрын
"Buying an airplane is cheap, properly maintaining it is expensive." The cracks in the wing skins could be an indication of a bigger problem.
@Robinbamv Жыл бұрын
The cracks are in the walkway doubler and due to people getting in and or the aircraft, I would guess by now the only PA28’s that don’t have cracks in this area are the aircraft that have had these skins replaced in the last five years or so.
@andywilkins66572 жыл бұрын
Interesting video, Jon. I suspect you had a big bill afterwards 🙄
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy. We're not in aviation to save money. These machines need care and attention.
@lindsayrixon74026 ай бұрын
I find it terribly disturbing that someone buys an airplane and then discovers how expensive it is with all the many costs involved. So they then decide to start a YT channel and beg for Patreons and seek donations to allow them to continue their hobby, but paid by others. I find that very offensive. However it’s these people that donate that are the real fools. I have found that the most interesting channels are made by those that are keen to share their passion and don’t beg for others to support them.
@TheFlyingReporter6 ай бұрын
So sorry you were disturbed by this. If you take the time to know me, you'd realise that the judgement you have come to is not accurate. I have published more than 300 videos to my public, free to watch channel, which all do as you desire - I share my passion for aviation, and inspire people to get into general aviation. I would urge you, if you can face it, to watch some of my other content, before coming to a snap judgement about me and my motives. Here's are a couple of my videos that really are typical of what I do. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHq1mJZ5d5yJb9E kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH_caqKHeLitatU kzbin.info/www/bejne/omTYmYaojNaorrs kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqSznYl_aqqfjbM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKiqZIqha7irerc This inspiring and educational content takes a lot of time to produce, and is very expensive. I'm most grateful to my Supporters' Club members who help me make this possible. Unfortunately, a small UK based GA KZbin channel, does not make very much money at all from advertising alone. I know it's hard to change someone's first impression, but if you can face it, and have an open mind, do check out some of this other content and then give me the courtesy of coming back and sharing your informed opinion.
@hansadler67162 жыл бұрын
What did this annual inspection cost?
@marsgal422 жыл бұрын
Nice to see India Victor getting the TLC she needs, though I did a double-take seeing a six cylinder Continental engine under the cowl. Had to look that up. Nice! My Musketeer has an AD for reinforcement brackets on the spar (73-20-07R2), visually inspect every annual, dye -penetrant every 500 hours, plus a Service Instruction for spar corrosion inspections. This year's annual was clean, a far cry from last year's Annual From Hell. The only challenge was lining up a new shop to do the work since the shop I had been working with have since gone out of business. Nothing to do with me and my plane. I hope... 😀
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
I suspect you kept them in business for that year - shame they went out of business afterwards. Gosh, that's quite a drag, with the checks on the. spar. But, these machines are getting old. I doubt they ever believed they'd still be flying 50-60+ years on.
@acengineer7372 жыл бұрын
Looks like Dave came out of retirement to give a hand getting the wing off
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
He's often around to lend a hand.
@flytoinspire2 жыл бұрын
Having had a lesson in a PA28 recently where my instructor did a rather steep turn, I'll try to keep how short the wing spar is out of my mind 😬
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
They've been flying without much incident for 60 odd years...
@flytoinspire2 жыл бұрын
@@TheFlyingReporter this is very true and they are still very safe aircraft 🙂
@ricardodelosreyes29355 ай бұрын
SB 886
@jonathanlambert70042 жыл бұрын
how much does something like this cost ?
@tbeevers2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Just curious of the total time on this airframe?
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Just over 3000 hours.
@ShaneFleming2 жыл бұрын
What’s the average cost of annuals?
@TheFlyingReporter2 жыл бұрын
Depends so much on type, year, quality of the maintenance organisation and how well the aeroplane has been looked after in the past, but I guess £3500-£5000 would probably be a reasonable bracket to budget for on average.
@sotecluxan42212 жыл бұрын
Paid how much?
@adrianssolutionsgwm2 жыл бұрын
This is WRONG. A compression test is NOT a reliable way of assessing engine health. Just try getting a so called fail , flying the aircraft half an hour and rechecking. A reliable way of checking engine health in 2022 is with a borescope The compression test was recommended when such technology didn't exist