René Meulensteen & Simon Jordan CLASH Over The England PENALTY & If It Affected The End Result 👀😤

Jim White and Simon Jordan talk with René Meulensteen about England vs. the Netherlands. Rene and Simon disagree about the penalty incident.
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#talksport
#netherlands
#engalnd
#euro2024
#kane
#PremierLeague

[@jimhuf8102]

Last night proves its pointless for the ref to go over to the monitor, the decision is already made at that point

[@paulhynes170]

The ref already had made his mind up it was not a penalty it was the other officials on VAR that told him to go to the screen

[@theoneandonlygus1]

@@paulhynes170 I think thats what Jim above means. VAR had decided it was a pen told the ref to come look at it again and changed his mind as they always seem to do.

[@GlovesareoffSweetScience]

​@theoneandonlygus1 It doesn't work like that. VAR asking a ref to have another look at the incident is so the ref gets to see it again. Properly. The ref and VAR know the decision is still only down to the ref and the ref only. VAR officials aren't influencing refs decisions. Refs decisions are changing because of the slow and multiple angles they get to see it again and again from.

[@gostepsenglish4431]

@@GlovesareoffSweetScience Nonsense. The 'go and have a look on the mointor' call means 'change your decision, son'.

[@theoneandonlygus1]

@@GlovesareoffSweetScienceyeah I kind meant that but worded it wrong, kinda. lol.

[@leeds85]

Hope Graham Taylor is somewhere looking down smiling at the penalty decision and saying "I do like that".

[@nickgoatham7981]

Well said mate. Sums sport up, not a top manager, but great human being. Top players were injured during his campaign.

[@TBrl8]

Do I like that, I think it would have been.

[@keano1983]

Karma can have a long fuse

[@znjebdreb]

@@keano1983 Why are you guys keep going on about that game where Rijkaard had a clear goal disallowed? Same exact game.

[@pennywise146]

@@znjebdrebBecause Koeman should’ve been sent off…that’s why!

[@jayem1980]

England were the better team get over it ..we have hsd to take plenty of bad decisions on the chin.. just like in 93 when your current manager should of been sent off

[@ostemad5985]

You were only better after the pen because you had the momentum

[@jayem1980]

@@ostemad5985 we were better before the penalty.. Netherlands were good for about 5 minutes..it's football good luck to the Dutch in future games

[@ostemad5985]

@@jayem1980 sure m8

[@znjebdreb]

Oh you mean that game with Rijkaards clear goal disallowed?

[@jayem1980]

@@znjebdreb yeah that one Netherlands actually deserved to win that game.. just like England did last night

[@harrydrake4173]

What about Saka's double handball leading up to the pen? How did VAR miss that?

[@lombekabaso301]

This ref was by the way suspended for a bribe he got

[@jm-np4mu]

@@lombekabaso301 Why was Saka's goal disallowed late in the game when it was 1-1 then??

[@lombekabaso301]

@@jm-np4mu it was offside

[@neilcassey1421]

I don't know what it is about Simon Jordan but I've started getting up earlier just so I can dislike him for longer.

[@joshuamatheron1]

Wasn’t aware 10am was early. Most of us are awake at 6

[@arctain1]

I got up at 4, after partying all night(and still drunk), just to dislike him longer…

[@ermencg1630]

I'm sure simon jordan cant sleep at night because you dont like him. Hell, even i am completely shocked by your absolutely irelevant opinion.

[@arctain1]

@@ermencg1630 - perhaps. But, even having no sleep, and still half-pissed, I can spell irrelevant - and apply it to your sycophantic inanity 🙄

[@TheEpicestGamers]

@@joshuamatheron1 Definitely not most...

[@leeandrewclarke]

The penalty was never a penalty but, given how Koeman cheated us and got away with it in 93, this feels like a long-delayed 'justice.'

[@marcus8030]

I respect this comment best comment I’ve seen.

[@Redders-hk5du]

31 years in the making - that penalty, Suck it up Koeman,

[@proudman6598]

Yea a bit like the Russian referee cheating west Germany in 66 final.

[@NaciMahmut-rf5xf]

You must be 137 years old.

[@TFB97]

​@@proudman6598keep crying clown 😭

[@DenD]

I cannot get over English media; They get angry when decisions don't go their way and get angrier when they get them 😂

[@usernameheda]

they're mad at VAR and useless officials not the decision

[@spm36]

English media? He's chuffing Scottish!

[@CraigWhyteCSC]

Means there doing there job calling out bad decisions?

[@Beepbeepbeepbe]

English media? You have 1 English man 1 Dutch and 1 Scottish. It’s muh British media. Love the taste of foreigners tears

[@BC-th3mx]

They're perpetual victims in their own eyes, pretty pathetic 😅

[@user-xd9ht5bk3d]

The Dutch got one against us Koeman should never have been on the pitch to score that free kick what goes around comes around.

[@basic3496]

Elaborate?

[@seanhickin9959]

​@basic3496 in 1993 Koeman played against England and should've been sent off for a foul on David Platt when he was through on goal

[@MrJevman]

Correct. In ‘93. I remember it well.

[@Jamie-Lancs]

​@@basic3496he doesn't need to elaborate if you was old enough to watch it bk then you know exactly what he means.

[@andyeveritt385]

Karma has a way of correcting all things doesn’t it 🥰

[@Sigma1_969]

Never really watched much with Simon Jordan, I can understand why some people don't like him very much, I'm not one of those people. He is brutally honest, quite intelligent and just very open minded.. I can really appreciate that. This is the second one in a row I've seen of him, there will be lots more, new subscriber.

[@marcbrown9001]

The amount of times England have lost because of a decision going against them, but this time it went England's way!

[@Tinywars]

Yep.

[@transparent6748]

Yeah especially in 66

[@marcbrown9001]

@transparent6748 do you mean 86, or are you being a douchbag? 🤔

[@neilmyers605]

the correct decision too.

[@marcbrown9001]

@neilmyers605 personally I agree 👍🏻

[@akwamarsunzal]

Was never a pen! VAR worked for England last night!

[@spm36]

😂try and cope babe

[@Jupitersonlyson]

You crazy!!? How was that not a pen? Clear contact.

[@ianbarrett4166]

@@spm36why so angry 😂 I’m happy we got the pen but don’t change the fact it wasn’t one

[@richiestockton]

you bitter bellfruit listen Dumfries didn't make contact with the ball so anywhere else on that pitch the foul would be given

[@Tinywars]

I totally agree but that’s modern football. VAR is not a good thing but here we are. Saying that, England were by far the better team.

[@martinguy7609]

Oh is that Rene who was certain Netherlands would beat England?

[@gregordrizzlewing7339]

I mean a cheat pen and you’re on your high horse. Brits are funny

[@MoTHFC]

You can only win by cheating i guess😂

[@OhioRed55]

@@MoTHFC England didn't cheat. The ref got it massively wrong. Happens every week in the Premier League.

[@poonchild]

@@MoTHFCCope, lad. Ronald knows it’s par for the course.

[@Fcker-oi8ex]

​​@@OhioRed55yes, which is why VAR should be scrapped, it isn't working. They are using it too much for small things, it wasn't supposed to be for every single little thing. They are micro-refereeing the game.

[@terencewhite8105]

Whether it was a penalty or not if it had gone the other way to the Dutch they would have been celebrating and not saying it was not the correct decision

[@piregister]

no, we wouldnt

[@morientesmuscat1168]

How was that not a penalty please. Dumfries was reckless and got none of the ball, he was second to the ball and it was late with his studs up.

[@dontbewoke]

Yep. Its kind if inexplicable that even England people like Gary Neville are saying it wasnt one. He mistimed it and struck Kanes foot , not deliberate but it doesnt have to be.

[@michaelgonzalez6523]

as there was two handballs before it even got there....

[@salsabil44]

WALOFS! Dumfries put his foot up to block the shot, as every defender is expected to do, and Kane merely kicked his foot with his follow through. Dumfries did not kick Kane.

[@user-kt2tk5ql9l]

His studs were up because the ball was in the air, you melon

[@pinkfloyd870]

@@salsabil44 He put his foot into the strike zone, studs up, resulting in an ugly contact that could end a career.

[@paulbaxter8651]

Terrible penalty decision. Any English fan who says they wouldn't have been aggrieved if that had been given against them is lying.

[@IWTBF]

100%

[@jm-np4mu]

@@paulbaxter8651 True, but still a penalty as it was clearly a foul & inside the box

[@jayem1980]

Last night i was convinced it was a harsh penalty.. but if that was anywhere else on the pitch its a free kick..i like the Dutch but England were better last night

[@damarmar1001]

I agree as a Dutchman. It wasn't a penalty but the English were better.

[@Fcker-oi8ex]

So kicking through in to a player on YOUR follow through is a foul to YOU? Back in the 70s folk would get headbutted and get up and start scrapping.

[@Joca497]

Genuine question. Do the laws of the game say that there should be more leniency from the referee for fouls in the box? Because if they do then it's a scandalous decision. And if they don't, then if it's a foul anywhere else on the pitch, it's a foul in the penalty area. And a foul in the penalty area means it's a penalty. Or is it an unwritten rule that the ref should be more lenient on fouls in the area so as to keep the penalty count down?

[@jayem1980]

@@Joca497 I don't know

[@erikdejong9728]

Changed momentum with a rigged penalty

[@thomascooper1144]

One thing I believe most people can agree on is it certainly wasn’t a clear and obvious error from the referee so VAR really shouldn’t have got involved but I’m glad they did lol.

[@nicholasbaldwin4897]

So you only want the right thing done once it benefits you

[@thomascooper1144]

@@nicholasbaldwin4897 I just said it shouldn’t have been given, what more do you want from me? 😆

[@gaborzachar203]

100% Agree penalty wasn’t given so no way in hell it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to be over turn the decision

[@beefsuprem0241]

The phrase "clear and obvious" is used by the PGMOL for the premier league. UEFA use different definitions...but it was the softest penalty in long time.

[@dez9459]

It was a clear and obvious error...anywhere else on the pitch that challenge is a foul. Tell me the last time a striker closed down a defender and when the defender kicks through and hits the strikers foot its not given as a foul? You can't!!! its a penalty!!!

[@Jackahuahua]

Absolutely spot on Simon, England were the dominant side for the first 45 minutes, 50/50 in the second half with no real danger coming from either side tbh. Also England have been on some appalling decisions over the years in tournament football. The penalty... My initial thought was a penalty should be awarded as soon as it happened before the pundits and ref reviewed it and so therefore the referee got it absolutely right after the VAR check, no question. No contact was made on the actual ball from the Dutch player whilst trying to clear it and also the players studs were showing too so this could be deemed dangerous play (which is being fickle yes) but let's have it right here, if you follow the laws of the game then this is a penalty regardless of it being a stonewal penl or a soft pen, tbh the Dutch guy is actually lucky he didn't get sent off either with it being in the 18 yard box and a pen was awarded if you really want to nit pick and analyze the situation. It just went our way last night, and we did enough to win the game in 90 mins imo anyway! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@tampiperson373]

I’m Scottish and here’s my view. If that happens anywhere else on the pitch it’s a free kick. Though it pains me to say it, that’s a stone wall penalty

[@jonb4248]

Thank you. I agree. Studs up, missed the ball, knee high. Kane couldn’t magically make his foot disappear on the follow through of his shot. If the Dutch player managed to keep his studs away somehow then I’d say it wasn’t a penalty. However it was dangerous play, although a genuine attempt to get the ball and it could have injured Kane very easily.

[@neilmyers605]

Exactly, studs showing is dangerous play by the Dutch player.

[@SaDTV]

What? 😂

[@bibsteenson]

Not a penalty but overall England were the better team. England had more possession, more passes, more pass accuracy, more shots, more shots on target etc. Deserved winners

[@leonhughes9014]

110% a penalty , outside the box its a foul everytime... doesnt matter of the ball has left the players foot.

[@samcarter687]

I no I don’t get it if he’s not got the ball then it’s a late challenge

[@Moore-nz1wp]

Anywhere else in the pitch, studs up is a foul... wake up!!!

[@seanhickling7340]

Late challenge, studs up and got absolutely nowhere near the ball... What else do you need for it to be a penalty??

[@Geffo555]

And Rice was fouled when the Dutch scored. So fair do's overall.

[@billdoor3140]

The failed carphone warehouse owner knows nothing about football

[@DX_2_words_4_ya]

Failure eh? His net worth is circa 85 million. What a failure.

[@billdoor3140]

@hotrodssr91 really? Then Why's he working on a failing radio station selling fake outrage to plastic fans?

[@billdoor3140]

@DX_2_words_4_ya and yet he's now working on radio selling outrage culture to people too uneducated to see he's a poundland piers Morgan 🤣

[@sorrynationst3685]

VAR getting involved in things that aren’t clear and obvious is becoming a massive issue. Also, why bother with getting the ref to look at the monitor when it was revealed last week by that American that they h e to go with the VAR call?

[@garethparry6673]

But was a clear and obvious error. The Ref missed a stone wall penalty.

[@marcus8030]

@@garethparry6673That’s never a pen how can Kane follow through and get a foul? That was a foul on Dumfries if anything just play on

[@mresquidgeward5965]

​@@marcus8030 what are you talking about? Follow through has nothing to do with it. Dumfries lunges at him with his studs Its s foul anywhere else on the pitch so it has to be a penalty Not sure how people are actually questioning it. And no....im not English

[@davidhoban3825]

​@@mresquidgeward5965It wouldn't happen anywhere else on the pitch as he was shooting at the goal. If by some strange reason it did, let's say in midfield, then if anything Kane would have been penalised for having his foot too high up. Anyway it wasn't a foul.

[@marcus8030]

@@mresquidgeward5965 He doesn’t lunge what are you talking about? Honest what incident are you looking at ?

[@stephenpodeschi6052]

The ref would of given a foul outside the box so it was a pen imo....

[@mcharrisment4765]

I will never ever defend England or GS , however , if that challenge had been made anywhere else on the pitch it would of been a Free Kick - so I agree with you - it is a pen

[@unextraordinaryzing8360]

Top comment. Accurate.

[@cillianhart6469]

You're all piss takers. Only england and Man City get that penalty you tossers

[@deanpratt1602]

could of, should of would of. ffs if you want your comment to be taken seriously then at least get your basic grammar correct, it could HAVE should HAVE would HAVE. 11 year olds get it right 🤣🤣🤣

[@znjebdreb]

This ref gave fouls all over the place when there was nothing going on, if that's your logic then every game should have at least 5 penalties.

[@otey7326]

According to the rules as they are, its definitely a penalty.

[@fanfam]

Nope it's not. Listen to the referees out there speaking out.

[@dannylad1600]

​@@fanfam anywhere else on the pitch its a clear foul, but for some reason its not a foul when its in the box.

[@neilmyers605]

A clear penalty for sure and if the Netherlands had got a similar penalty decision it would have been a definite penalty according to the Dutch fans. I can't remember any Dutch fans complaining in 93.

[@stievboyo636]

Would have been a free kick on the halfway line so it's a foul

[@TJTOPBOY]

Not one England player even challenged it. Not a pen.

[@russellstanton7583]

Because it was in the box it doesn't mean it's not a foul. As has been said in many posts anywhere else on that pitch it would be deemed a foul. A foul in the box is a penalty. 🤷‍♂️

[@thebossman4875]

​@@TJTOPBOYNot true, Saka put his hand up for the penalty

[@marcus8030]

It would be a freekick to Dumfries Kane literally follows through some that Casemiro gets yellow cards for after he gets the Ball

[@marcus8030]

@@thebossman4875Saka also had his hands on the ball in the build up but you clearly didn’t see that

[@prideofdurham4776]

Was Kane denied a goal scoring opportunity? No! The ball was going over the crossbar when (if) any contact was made , and Kane made a right meal of that "injury" because he was playing like a dick again.Still , when your name is on the trophy things go your way.

[@utdfortreble]

Doesnt make any difference where the ball goes.

[@jm-np4mu]

@@prideofdurham4776 Everyone else makes meals of challenges - numerous times in every match! It's down to the Refs & VAR to get it right

[@thunderpot]

have you every hit the studs of another player. It's painful. Obviously you've never played the game.

[@jossym]

The only baffling thing about this whole incident is that anybody - including former players - doesn't think it should have been a penalty. I missed it in real time but that's what VAR is for - to reach the correct decision. The defender has his foot up high, studs showing and doesn't get anything on the ball. Kane's studs aren't showing and does play the ball. It is the very definition of a high, late challenge. 'But Kane kicked him' - no. He took a shot and that is the end motion of that sequence. If you're making a tackle anywhere and your studs are showing and you only get there once the attacking player has played the ball, you have committed a foul. Don't be swayed by ex pro's and pundits not understating the rules - there are many examples of their lack of knowledge when it comes to refereeing decisions.

[@johnhopkinson7573]

To be honest aside from the penalty decision the dutch deserved to lose, like Koeman said post match England was the better team 1st half and 2nd half it was a 50/50 match..The stats were all in England's favour, more possession, better XG, more chances created...

[@leannecampbell4551]

The penalty changes the game completely though, which affected the Dutch big time, psychologically, because they knew they were up against cheats.

[@19822andy]

​@@leannecampbell4551woah, woah, woah, England didn't award themselves a pen.

[@cdawg6150]

@@leannecampbell4551Against cheats? All the decisions against england in the past 30 years one had to go their way. Everyone just hating on england whilst doubting them could just make them cause an upset vs Spain. Remember this comment

[@imadbasayev8541]

Why stick the studs out in the box? Why not block with his body?

[@davidatkinson-lifematters4826]

Never played football, eh?

[@philiplewis7572]

@@davidatkinson-lifematters4826no he’s not a professional like u

[@ianwhite3616]

Said by someone who's obviously never played the game....melt

[@erikdejong9728]

It was HANDBAL of Saka, look it up

[@imadbasayev8541]

@@erikdejong9728 That doesn't answer my question. Why didn't he block it with his body? Why stick the studs out waist high? Everyone knows what happens when you miss a challenge with the studs out.

[@hicks3749]

The Dutch also got one over us before the 1994 World Cup, definitely a red card for Koeman which he admits himself and he also scored after it so he deserves this more than anyone.

[@neilcassey1421]

Never mind, Holland, it's not all bad news. I just got my best ever score on Cloudlands Mini Golf VR 2. 😂😂

[@Tom-bn8ok]

Genuinely delighted that the penalty was awarded but the day penalties are given for blocking a shot is shocking

[@pinkfloyd870]

Putting your footin, studs up into the strike zone as the striker takes a shot is DANGEROUS play. The contact from that DANGEROUS play... is a FOUL. Look at the contact... that can end a career.

[@jamesjarrett52]

That one was for Graham Taylor, so kiss my a..Koeman!

[@ScootMcNoot]

Get the violins out boys! 😆

[@KM-yg1tb]

Says a person probably still going on about Mexico ‘86!!!!!!

[@ScootMcNoot]

@@KM-yg1tb whaaa whaaa cry more pal

[@Robertsmith001]

@@ScootMcNootSpain will avenge this 💪🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸

[@HappyBob701]

Paid referee and you lot are celebrating it disgusts me

[@Emanuel-bm9vn]

@@HappyBob701now say that again without crying

[@DarthBreezus]

It was a bloody penalty!!! Dumfries knows what hes doing, he leaves his foot there knowing Kanes guna follow through and hurt himself!

[@ElgrandeRick810817]

Handball Saka just before

[@jm-np4mu]

@@ElgrandeRick810817 No

[@Vince_Paul]

We have players like the 16 year old Spanish player. The problem is clubs don’t bring them through to the first team quick enough. They get farmed out to the lower leagues or are kept in the youth teams. If they are lucky they get to train with the first team squad. But they will never get a lookin playing international football. As it’s the media and management that basically picks the international squad. It’s always been the media go on and on about a player and the manager ends up picking them. Remember when Steve bull got picked for England and the media went mental because he was playing in the 1 division and not the premier league. Even tho he was the top scorer and best in the country at the time. They always state a lack of experience as the reason. An forget the skill and talent of the player in English football. In other countries it’s totally different as shown with this 16 year old playing for his country.

[@jamesgunn7]

England were by far the better team. It's a foul anywhere else on the pitch - stop crying about it and move on!

[@frankmachin5438]

It’s such a moot point. Whenever I look up the result on the internet it’s England 2 Netherlands 1. Every match has its controversies, England has been in the end of more than i can recall. Get over it

[@LANMEE2]

I agree with Simon that VAR is and should be just a tool, ref is the one that pulls the trigger on the decision even after getting the help of VAR. However I completely agree with the decision that it was a penalty. I personally had the same situation where I was sidelined for 8 months with the broken foot injury, because someone blocked the followthrough. It is pretty lazy to think of this situation as if it was not affecting the play because followthrough largely controls the direction where the ball goes. I would also add that rules should not be protecting defensive players and plays. Each year football is becoming less of an attractive game, and having rules that support defense instead of promoting offense will just continue to make the game more boring and scripted.

[@neilpearce]

England were the better team, whether that was a penalty or not. But I agree, that was a harsh penalty decision.

[@MikeyNottz]

That’s why I’m soo annoyed tbh, why didn’t the England Players & Southgate go out in the second half & win 4-1/5-1, then this “penalty decision” wouldn’t of been relevant at all, 🤷‍♂️ But now it’s all people are gonna talk about cuz it was the decisive goal & it looks like we’ve Cheated the game, it’s disgraced the country!! 👎😤

[@anthonykey9706]

I think it was technically a pen, but a harsh one.

[@pinkfloyd870]

@@MikeyNottz You do realise what you just wrote in embarrassingly dumb? The internet has taught me that the level of intellect in the human race is immeasurably lower than I would ever have guessed.

[@krishnamootoosamy162]

England fan here…. Never a pen!

[@user-xh4bw2zc4g]

It was and Saka for me wasn't even offside and certainly wasn't effective the keeps line of site I the first phase of the play. Should have been 3-1

[@nathanaelyoung9797]

Outrageous foul trying to break Kane’s leg. Should've been 2 penalties.

[@sonnyirish3678]

At least you are honest.Its the best policy because if its the other way round then people would be furious.

[@Nedchilvs]

So you don't know the rules then? Take the player, not the ball in 18 yd box, it's a penalty. it's been like that for that past 150 years of football.

[@GavinStannard-hu6sj]

Best team won

[@psingh23]

Stop making it like Yamal is a world beater and that you need to be worried! ENGLAND are just about beating average teams! And all the fans are getting excited LOOL

[@NY-Dani]

The guy went in with his studs and didn't touch the ball. It was late, it was a foul. So what if he was blocking the ball, he made contact with his studs.

[@herbert9241]

Exactly, simple as that. Anyone not seeing this should find another hobby.

[@tempusfugit9796]

If that penalty incident happened on any other part of the pitch, it would be a foul and a free kick. We see it on a regular basis. So why should it be any different in the penalty area?

[@safecrackergold3743]

If a player raises his foot and doesn’t get the ball then it hits the players foot it’s deffinetley a free kick it just so happens it was in the box so penalty

[@grahamdoyle4916]

Doku on macalister

[@salsabil44]

Two things about the Euros: England have been sponny bastards - piss easy draw and they still play shite. Secondly, VAR has been a disgrace.

[@user-xc5yo6rt5j]

As simon said - we were due one. Just of the top of my head i can think of half a dozen critical decisions that have gone against us: Hand of god, koeman yellow card, beckham red card, sol disallowed goal Argentina, sol disallowed goal portugal, lampards non-goal, rooney red card portugal, non-penalty calls vs france. Its about time we got something at a critical stage in a competition!

[@m0o0n0i0r]

for me its a penalty, leading with your studs. If it was anywhere else on the pitch its a foul.

[@jelle-2554]

it was handball from saka 1 sec before so the dumfries incident is irrelevant. Attacking handball is ALWAYS a foul. they disallowed belgium goal but now they give penalty?

[@m0o0n0i0r]

@@jelle-2554 The law-making body International Football Association Board (Ifab) says that if the ball is either kicked or headed by a player and the ball then goes on to their own arm, it is not handball unless the ball then goes directly into the opponents' goal or the player scores immediately afterwards.

[@cuibono6872]

It was and it wasnt, studs up over the top of the ball, very dangerous indeed, 6 inches higher would have been Harry's shin he is connecting with and its a broken leg, desperate situation, last gasp tackle, but turned out to be potentially a career ending challenge, on balance, right decision.

[@user-yu8yz8rb8t]

😂😂😂😂

[@unruly7516]

Like I wanted England to lose but, the man’s studs was showing and he was rushing in, he made contact with the man, why are people upset with the decision,, I actually played football and understood the rules, why are they saying it’s not a pen.

[@gostepsenglish4431]

It wasn't a tackle though. He lifted his leg to block a shot and Kane kicked him.

[@unruly7516]

@@gostepsenglish4431 Kane kicked him? Kane kicked the ball, the defender rushed in studs up and make contact with the striker in the box, you can’t tackle like that in your own penalty area, matter of fact you can’t tackle like that anywhere, am I in an alternate universe? What do you mean it wasn’t a tackle, did you see the play, high studs, in his own area and make contact with the opposition player, it’s a pen, it doesn’t matter if he ment it or not, it’s not a handball, wow, it’s scares me how many people don’t have a clue about football, i actually played at a few academies so I have to understand the rules, it scares me how many people are wrong but think they are right. I would love to say England won because of the ref bad decision cause I really didn’t want them to win, I just don’t see it.

[@theblues8840]

@@gostepsenglish4431 it blatantly was a tackle though, I don’t even support England but he challenged for the ball studs up and caught the man. Blocking the ball is when you try and get in the way of the ball, not when you try to kick the ball

[@ElgrandeRick810817]

The VAR also missed the handball made by Saka just before Kane pulled the shot and hitting Dumfries. So it was not only a bad VAR call, it was also a mistake to look only at the "foul" and neglect or miss the handball.

[@RuinMassia]

Disagree with Rene. The Dutch going in front actually helped England as we had to chase the game, England’s problem is when we have something to hold onto, we go into a don’t lose mentality instead of going out to win the game

[@kailashpatel1706]

The thing is its it was not just the penalty, in the 88th Min Guhei lost the ball from Gakpo's challenge and threw himself to the ground and it was deemed a foul with Gakpo free on the right...A corner off Stones in the 86th min not given...

[@CTOTHER]

Nice to have René humbled. He should focus more on Netherlands’ short comings rather than obsessing over England.

[@gerryz8216]

Scraped past a Dutch team missing De Jong, Koopmeiners and Depay came off in the first half… it’s coming home?

[@CTOTHER]

@@gerryz8216 ah here come the excuses. Big losses for sure but England had their own injury problems with Maguire, Shaw and Kane looks at 50%. Why didn’t Koeman use his stacked bench more wisely? Frimpong & Maatsen would’ve caused trouble. No winger despite Bergwijn on the bench? Scraped? England were the better team aha. No idea if it’s coming home, but we deserved to win last night:)

[@Dingbotz]

@@gerryz8216 oh my precious bitter Celt. How it pains you to see England succeed that you manifest pure delusion.

[@Dingbotz]

@@CTOTHER Exactly. England were dominant in every area and had twice as much possession. Holland were also saved by a goal-line clearance, a post and the tiniest of offsides. Even in the second half, when the Dutch flooded midfield, England's goal was only subject to two spurious attempts. Depay is not a world-class player, not even EPL class, whilst England had a bench full of stars. The cope is strong with @gerryz8216

[@gerryz8216]

@@CTOTHER lol oh no your missing Harry Maguire! How could the greatest team in history survive ? De Jong is their best midfielder and Koopmeiners is coming off his best season of his career not even comparable. Xavi was destroying England through those middle if he didn’t have to switch positions England would have been fucked.

[@toddy505]

Did Jim sell many ice cream cones ? 😂

[@richardbradley322]

Defender has 2 feet off the ground at point of contact with Kane's shin. Defender has studs up at point of contact with Kane's shin. Defender is not even looking at Kane at point of contact with Kane's shin. It's not just a stonewall penalty, if the defender travels with more force, it's a red card.

[@tomhermens7698]

This german referee was a disgrace to Fifia and to Germany.

[@rodneydelaney9227]

The Dutch wouldn't be complaining if that penalty was given the other way.

[@liamharvey2053]

Still wouldn't make it right

[@andrewwright4195]

​@@liamharvey2053what about ltaly 3 years ago non red card last man 90 minute

[@gregordrizzlewing7339]

@@andrewwright4195give it a rest that ain’t a bloody pen isit 😂😂 complaining at scraps at this point.

[@liamharvey2053]

@@andrewwright4195 hahaha! Ffs

[@mtho3509]

England dominated Netherlands completely in the first half, and it became more fair in the 2nd. Southgate as much as I dislike it, outsmarted his counter.

[@Tinywars]

What’s Rene on about in the second half? We scored twice. One ruled out and the other stood. As for the penalty. Well you wanted VAR and we’ve got it.

[@kph1034]

Absolutely not a penalty

[@spm36]

Checks stats...yep.. it was

[@alextoumazou2812]

Absolutely was a penalty, casuals like you just need to stop wacthing the sport. If that was anywhere else on the pitch it would have been a foul and because it was in the box it was a penalty. The rules are very clear that when you challenge for the ball you need to do it in a way that does not cause unreasonable risk to your opponent. Dumfries went into that with the sole of his boot vertical with his studs up and his leg at knee height, Kane got to the ball first and because of Dumfries poor challenge he got the penalty. If he didn't have his studs up then it more than likely would not have been a penalty and just a poorly timed challenge. The fact he had his studs up made it a poorly timed and dangerous challenge

[@tg007ful]

​@@alextoumazou2812 you're forgetting one thing genius...Kane was the one that made contact

[@stephenalex4345]

​@@alextoumazou2812kane kicked Dumfries looolll. Never a penalty.

[@karaperrio-du5gs]

so you think it wasn't a freekick and yellow card outside of the box?

[@MatthewBaker-nq2cb]

Never a penalty ,but given by a corrupt ref who's reputation was already tarnished,& what's worse Kane rolling about as if he's being mauled by a lion pathetic.

[@johncummins3860]

Yea, just like Robben - professional diver !

[@mresquidgeward5965]

You're whole team was pathetic though. So...🤷‍♂️

[@dondamon4669]

Every country has been doing it for decades and England have only just caught on with the cheating and look what happens

[@SlekelekeSwela-du4mw]

Thought for sure he'd be plastered up & on crutches, Amazing he recovered so swiftly to take the penalty..glad rugby has not reached this point..Bokke by 20 vs Ireland on saterday

[@patrickryan5570]

A rather balanced discussion between René Meulensteen & Simon Jordan - It was nice that they both agreed England was owed one of those barmy refereeing decisions... What I would love to see is a ref disagreeing with the VAR intervention for anytime they go to the TV they always point to the spot.

[@JimReid-cb8lx]

Definitely a penalty. It was a foul inside the box. Could have been a red card also. Studs onto opponent’s shin with no contact with ball. End of story.

[@simongray9530]

Well said, I cannot believe this is even being discussed

[@alexunitedstand2210]

As a United fan I love Renee but he's beyond deluded here, England were far better and if it went to Extra time England would've scored there because we're bringing the likes of Palmer and Watkins on and they're bringing on Weghorst lol

[@william_marshal]

No VAR England's goal in the 78th minute would have stood ... people don't want VAR when the decision goes against them but want it when it goes their way. VAR is not ruining football, it has stopped a lot of cheating in the game, like holding an opponent in the area when a corner is taken.

[@TheEnglish1969]

Bottom line. 1. It was a studs up tackle. 2. If that was in open play, its a freekick and most likely a yellow. Therefore, penalty. Dont really see what all the fuss is about.

[@hooman9e]

It’s a foul. A foul in the box is a penalty. I’m sick of hearing how a penalty should be treated differently.

[@MrShotta1989]

Then Spain will get a whole lot of penalties Sunday. Every corner the defence is making fouls

[@mr.perceval6811]

It was not even a foul.

[@carlwoods640]

Never a pen u clown

[@standemanonoman408]

the foul being what? if he didnt hit him the ball would have gone over the goal anyway, and also kane hit dumfries so there was no foul so shush.

[@MrBannystar]

The foul was Kane kicking Dumfries......

[@Bert-lw1ot]

I wouldn’t be happy if it was given against us, but I can see why the ref gave it

[@magicmajeed]

I think the issue is that the ref didn’t, which is key to this, VAR got involved

[@whydouwanttoknow1945]

It was the studs being up and pointing at kane that did it. I wouldn't give it as a pen myself because it was more a reaction then an intention but anywhere else on the pitch it's definitely a booking and a free kick.. possibly even a red for the studs being up.

[@magicmajeed]

@@whydouwanttoknow1945 it won’t be a red mate come on, the shot was taken and contact made after. Agree that if this happened in the middle of the pitch ref would’ve called a foul. But in the penalty area I think there’s a lot more tolerance. Just like contact during corners.

[@whydouwanttoknow1945]

@@magicmajeed I did say I wouldn't have given it myself for the exact reasons U mentioned but footballs changed and I think var just focused on the foot pointing the studs up and that's now seen as dangerous play. Decisions are no longer made using common sense it's about the action and could it have caused an injury. We see decisions every week in the prem that most of us would agree couldn't be helped because it's a natural movement but it gets given because the outcome could've been dangerous.

[@billneave5537]

​@@magicmajeed if its a foul anywhere else on the pitch then it's also a penalty you just can't say you get a free kick for that and a booking and in the same breathe say its not a pen cause it would be to harsh the same rules apply everywhere on the pitch, so it was 100% a penalty and if it was given against England I still wouldn't complain as a foul is a foul anywhere on the pitch

[@paulhanson5164]

Anywhere else on the pitch that would have been given as a free kick, yellow card and nobody would have questioned it, Dumfries was nowhere near the ball and was moving towards Kane with his studs showing. It wasn't an incorrect decision, just a bit surprising as Refs usually let things like that go unpunished when its in the box.

[@psychedelicelvis-777]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="76">1:16</a> VAR hasn't "broken football" Ronald, it's only broken the dirty tactics of Dutch football on this occasion, as it probably would've done in 93'!

[@newhappiness4410]

Respect to Rene I think he was right agreed to disagree I suppose. England would’ve drawn level eventually just having that quick response helped us win the game in 90 mins

[@Corfecastle]

Stop crying Rene. Footballs coming home. Poor Holland 😂😂😂

[@davinnicode]

I wouldn't call it "football" what England is playing during this tournament but the cup is coming home.

[@harryf1ashman]

Rene is projecting. There is no way he can say that the penalty changed the outcome of the game. If England had gone in at half-time one down then perhaps Southgate may have made those changes sooner. I remember that game against Germany when the Lampard goal was not given. The Germans were clearly in the ascendancy and I doubt it would have changed anything. There were some dodgy calls right throughout the game but overall I think England deserved the result. England had the ball in the net twice in the 2nd half only one was a fractional offside. Before var that goal might well have stood.

[@ibrahimisa7928]

Both The Netherlands & England Don't Really Deserve To Be In The Final However Someone Had To Win On That Side Of The Draw But Spain Will Win The Final Regardless They Have Been The Best Team In This Tournament & The Most Deserving, My Prediction: Spain 3 England 1

[@carpet6986]

We're unbeaten in the tournament. Of course, we deserve it....

[@ibrahimisa7928]

That's only because England have played Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia, Switzerland etc while Spain have played and beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany & France.

[@carpet6986]

@ibrahimisa7928 Croatia are poor, Italy equally poor and France scored a single goal from open play. FIFA rankings are also BS, you can only beat what is in front of you. Everyone said Switzerland would be us, and when they didn't the the Dutch would. That also proved not to be the case. Spain has had a good tournament, but it's one game of football now, and anything can happen. After all, Scotland beat them in the qualifiers, and they may be due a bad game....

[@jm-np4mu]

@@ibrahimisa7928 England got onto the 'right side' of the draw by winning their group. It's all fair & above board

[@KhanivoreQniba]

Rematch! But seriously, sour grapes from Rene!

[@georgemckinlay5935]

England , the worst team ever to get to a major final, all said it, you’re better being lucky than good, Spain will hammer them .😂😂😂

[@historymatters6627]

I'm not English or Dutch. That was a disgraceful call. Never a penalty.

[@Two_Seat_Pete_FatA55]

You're probably Scottish

[@xioshen2058]

No but you're mad and blind

[@samuelfletcher382]

Going in, foot at waist hight with your studs up, thats a penalty im afraid. You cant go in with your studs up, especially in your own box.

[@herbert9241]

Exactly this. Case closed.

[@JFP1988]

Whether or not it's a bad call is beside the point. Dealing with bad calls is all part of the game and there will always be people who'll disagree with decisions. It might have made a difference but England were very dominant for the first half, the only reason Simmons scored is because I think it was Rice who slipped, leaving an opening for Simmons to run through and shoot. Had the penalty not been awarded, England might still have scored in the first half, if not then perhaps England wouldnhave scored 2 in the second half or in extra time. Second half Netherlands were playing more wide, preventing England from getting down the wings but we still had some shots, including a disallowed goal. I'm confident based on how they were playing we'd have still clinched it, but who knows, and it really isn't worth speculating. The referee interprets the rules and makes the ultimate decision, whether we like it or not England won and anybother team would be just as happy to get a penalty decision. Winning a tournament requires skill and some luck. England put on a good performance last night and had some luck as well.

[@Leogunner2]

Dumfries said it was a foul.

[@stefansibbes2440]

No he didn't. He said he takes responsibility but never said it was a foul. He said he wouldnt know how else to challenge Kane there as a defender.

[@mresquidgeward5965]

​​​@@stefansibbes2440get the ball? Don't crunch your studs into someone's leg in the box? Either of those

[@taykitrleevitt4314]

​@mresquidgeward5965 As an England fan, kane's boot was high and should also have been penalised... you can't expect a team's defender, allow a free shot at goal in his own box.

[@hotdog9262]

denzel really puts the dum in dumfries. his previous game as well, jesus

[@stefansibbes2440]

@@mresquidgeward5965 ok thanks for your input. You a professional player?

[@ryandudley3616]

Scotsman here: it was a penalty.

[@stevenlobban8162]

Scotland officially disowns you😂

[@alansmith4655]

It wasn't. It wasn't a challenge/tackle, it was a block. Kane followed into him. Are defenders not allowed to put their foot up to block a volley?

[@ryandudley3616]

@@alansmith4655 defender follows through with studs showing; it’s a foul on any other part of the pitch so why not inside the box?

[@herbert9241]

Englishman here. If anything I don't want Gareth Southgate's tedious methods vindicated, I'd rather we didn't have VAR in the first place (or maybe only use it retrospectively where violet conduct or outright cheating is missed in real time - not in any way holding up the game or undermining the on-field officials), I wouldn't necessarily expect them to find the right decision even when VAR is implemented in real time. They found the right decision. Studs-up challenge. Studs-up 2' off the ground challenge. It's actually a bona fide kung fu technique designed to temporarily 'raspberry ripple' your opponent - as evidenced. It's not even a new rule, nothing to do with millennial wenis anxiety confusion. Case closed. Gary Neville has no idea what he's yapping about. He's just as much an embarrassment to the national game as Southgate. 'Violet' is an intentional solecism and precautionary measure against the jejune, book-burning algorithms plaguing this platform.

[@zeupel]

I'm from the Netherlands, waiting since 1988 to take a title, because i can't recall the 1988 win, i was too young. It is sad the Dutch always seems to lose in a quarter, semi final or final, so close every time. I hope to experience a win before i leave this planet but i don't believe it anymore. We are cursed, we are missing real talent now, like Robben, Huntelaar, Van Persie etc. This team had some luck but let's be real, England would have won anyway, penalty or not. But i am still proud, as a small country, we managed to come close many times ❤

[@Viewer41]

Funny how no one talks about Saka's goal, that shouldn't have been disallowed. He was not involved in play and was onside when he was active.

[@naughtynightlifeasia857]

It was Walker who was offside before he crossed it.

[@tg007ful]

Walker - who provided the assist, was offside. Wakey wakey

[@davidatkinson-lifematters4826]

It was Walker who was offside, you melt.

[@dalj4362]

If it had been anywhere else on the pitch, it would've been a free kick. It's 50/50 to give it or not.

[@Theganjaman88]

Studs up at knee height, reckless challenge. Defo a pen in my eyes

[@user-dc8sr2fx6v]

The trouble with VAR is that if the ref hadn't given the penalty after going to the monitor he would probably not be put forward to be in charge of any further games. It takes some bottle for a ref to stick to their original decision. VAR is meant to be for clear and obvious mistakes and this wasn't one of them.

[@pcprincipal9889]

it wasn't a penalty and Simon is right, the ref didn't have to give it. He could've seen the same pictures everyone else saw and known it wasn't a penalty

[@garethparry6673]

Stone wall penalty. Either learn the laws of the game or take up a new sport.

[@stephenalex4345]

​@garethparry6673 no it wasn't. Dumfries is entitled to block the shot. Kane kicked the underneath of his boot. Explain how it's a penalty.

[@michaelpower4372]

The Bellingham statement before the game influenced the refs decision. NEVER EVER a penalty. Kane had allready taking the shot and it few over the bar without any infringement for the defender. Not a penalty in a billion years.

[@karaperrio-du5gs]

was that not a freekick and a yellow card anywhere else on the field?, we would have easily beat Holland without the pen we were vastly superior all over the pitch

[@michaelpower4372]

​@@stephenalex4345kane was the one who kicked the defender's foot and the ball wasn't going anywhere near the goal for it to be a penalty it few over the bar Awful decision by Ref who should have been replaced straight away and penalty disallowed.

[@jacklyons2088]

was never a penalty, england have had so much luck in the draws and with this decision its hard to believe we deserve to be where we are

[@Shdjdjxbdksk]

😂😂😂 Keep crying mate we love it

[@wackyadz06]

Grow up

[@henrypage8951]

Surprised England fans haven’t demanded that the final be played at Wembley. Insufferable people.

[@wackyadz06]

@@henrypage8951 Based on all your comments on this page, I'd say you're a little jealous. You got nothing better to do with your time? You're a little obsessed, kid.

[@Shdjdjxbdksk]

@@henrypage8951 hahahahaha keep crying Henry

[@christianargentiTalkTV]

I’m not English or Dutch. That penalty was a disgrace. It’s this sort of use of VAR that is going to destroy the game. England were the better team overall and deserve to go through, sure. But the penalty was an atrocious decision.

[@NellyGandhella]

Lmao cry more 😭 😄 🤣

[@mikefriend1514]

Rene’s argument that Netherlands game is possession based and they would therefore have gone to win had the penalty not been awarded would make sense if England hadn’t dominated possession immediately after the Netherlands took the lead. It didn’t take the penalty to swing the game. The signs were already there that England dominated the Dutch midfield and were operating in acres of space. Where I would agree is that had the Dutch held England off until halftime, when Koemann rejigged his midfield and Englands energy levels and possession stats dropped, they may have had a better chance of seeing out the game. But it was still a penalty because that same challenge anywhere else on the pitch would have been deemed a foul. It makes no difference that Kanes momentum took his foot into contact with Defries. That’s what happens every time a defender sticks a leg out in the penalty area and an attacker trips over it.

[@alansmith4655]

Lucky again.

[@jayem1980]

Again how many times have England been on the end of wrong decisions

[@trudeausbackbone1304]

Biggest test yet to come for Wokegate.

[@trudeausbackbone1304]

​@@wackyadz06 😢

[@johndixon7007]

If the roles were reversed and VanDyke was clearing a ball out of the box in the same manner. Harry Kane was having a shot and a striker left his leg on the clearance it would be a foul and the striker would probably get a yellow

[@andrewstone1999]

Holland did get a grip on the game in the second half , but then englands subs changed the game , if the penalty wasn’t given it would of gone into extra time , no one knows how that would of ended

[@chrisnaude2929]

The Dutch were hard done by there. Terrible decision.

[@julianhodgson1961]

But on the night England were the far better team(somewhat surprisingly)so I don’t think the Dutch can feel too hard done by - they just need to suck it up and move on just like we English always do.

[@jordanbrooks4834]

“The Dutch were up in arms” that is a foul anywhere else on the pitch, he’s gone in for a challenge and he’s late, in midfield that’s a free kick and we carry on with life.

[@NealSinclair]

He got his shot off perfectly(sailed over the bar) then caught the guys leg following through wtf were you watching 😂....

[@jordanbrooks4834]

@@NealSinclair what in midfield you think the ref doesn’t blow for a foul there?🤣 what sport have you been watching mate

[@NealSinclair]

@jordanbrooks4834 why would he blow for a foul when there wasn't one he didn't blow for any foul on Kane he gave a by kick,VAR made him give it,so in midfield the game keeps going.

[@jordanbrooks4834]

@@NealSinclair what you reckon if a player passes the ball, and another player steps on his foot just after, and the team lose the ball, the ref just keeps the game flowing? Idk why I’m arguing with someone who clearly doesn’t actually watch football😂

[@si4632]

@@jordanbrooks4834 he's Scottish🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@robertw.1499]

World Cup 2010, England v. Germany. The world saw that goal go behind the goal line, the ref didn’t. England flew out of the competition. In this Euro Championship, Germany against Spain in the semis. Obvious Handball in the penalty area, the world saw it, ref didn’t award it and Germany flew out. This foul against Kane will be discussed for a long time, this and all the others from this competition.

[@marieduncalf9296]

I haven't heard d the word "burk" for years. What a flash back 😂

[@aaron8968]

Studs up it’s a penalty.