We decided to start over | JRM-01 Pt.6

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[@AzzaFortysix]

Loving the series so far. Are you planning on releasing the STL files and plans once you finish fixing all the issues and get it flying? Would love to try and print and assemble one for myself ❤

[@seanday6127]

He has a website where he sells them. He has two others too.

[@AzzaFortysix]

@@seanday6127 Sweet, I'll buy it once this model is released

[@renerosentraeger]

Yes, we will and also make our own website. All updates here on my channel.

[@s__s_6242]

This is truely inspiring I can’t get over how cool this is.

[@renerosentraeger]

Thanks man!

[@dee5556]

Renè, since you are doing a redesign why do you need vertical stabilizers at all? Dual engine thrust vectoring should be sufficient, plus with reduced weight and yaw wind resistance you should have a superior design. If you feel you still need rudders for high alpha yaw control consider long short rudders with no stabilizers. I would mount 4 of them 3 cm high two on the top of the engine bulb and two under also on the engine bulb. Better than rudders for high alpha yaw control would be a nose deflector on each side of the nose cone. A NASA study showed that nose deflectors are a superior design for high alpha yaw. Nose deflectors are pop-out control surfaces in case you were unsure what I was talking about.

[@renerosentraeger]

This is a very interesting point! The V-Stabs are more for save behavior without engine running. It is easy to remove the stabs or ad full moveable one later on. At first I want to know the flight behavior and make it easy to fly as possible. I´ll put it to the following experimental flight chapter.

[@dee5556]

That is a very good point I was not considering. Perhaps a compromise between ideas build a thrust vectoring nozzle with short stubby x config stabilizers added to it. Now it works good for high alpha which you will not do without power and should give you sufficient unpowered control for saving the plane. I would still consider nose deflectors to work in combination with hybrid thrust vectoring nozzles, but have an on/off switch and powered and unpowered settings config. Keep up the great content.@@renerosentraeger

[@L0615T1C]

Why not make parts 2 perimeters, and massively decrease infill? Most of the strength comes from the skin

[@renerosentraeger]

The skin will buckle without infill. Was all tested out. Under 5% infill the weightsaving is marginal.

[@John-gw3mj]

@@renerosentraeger I think the question is whether an additional wall will give you the extra strength you need to offset the reduced infill. I just did a quick test with Orca Slicer on a 100mm cube: 1 wall, 1 top, 1 bottom, 5% gyroid: 102.3g 2 wall, 2 top, 2 bottom, 2.5% gyroid: 96.2g In absolute terms, it's not a lot of weight saving, but it might be enough to get down to the designed TOW without too much fiddling. Of course, this has all the caveats that this is regular PLA on my printer (0.6mm nozzle) etc.

[@rod3134]

Have you thought about using 2 counter rotating fans in the nose? It could help with stability...😮 You may find it easier to scale the jet up with larger edfs. GOOD LUCK 👍🏽 👍🏽

[@renerosentraeger]

This is a very nice idea! I´ll keep it in mind.

[@The_dream_of_flying]

Das selbe Problem mit der Wandstärke hatte ich auch beim Eurofighter. Interessant, ich hatte auch einen Würfel mit einem Hohlraum drinnen erstellt und die Wandstärke immer dünner gemacht, um zu sehen, wie das Gewicht sich verändert. Gleiches Problem, nahezu gleiche Lösung. Ich habe mich dadurch dann für eine Wandstärke im Nasenbereich von 7mm und überall im Hauptrumpf für 3mm entschieden, wenn der Körper an der entsprechenden Stelle auch dick genug dafür war. Daher habe ich bei der SU-27 die Flügel ohne Hohlraum gestaltet, da sie dafür zu dünn sind. Und wo die Stabilität nicht mehr ausreicht, wird mit Carbonverstärkung gearbeitet. Bin jedenfalls gespannt, wie es weiter geht. 👍

[@renerosentraeger]

Ja, sehe ich auch so. Wir haben bei unserem Freestyle-Modell dazu noch die Möglichkeit die äussere Form auf Leichtbau/Leichtdruck zu optimieren. Bei einer vordefinierten Form (Scale-Jet) ist es wirklich mal interessant zu sehen, ob es "Die Beste / Leichteste Lösung" gibt.

[@_serge]

I think you should revise the air intake geometry. There is an all angle of stagnation points (positive pressure rising the drag) between LERX and intake leap. I think the optimum design aerodynamically is this of the air intake of the M-346 trainer aircraft. Take a look...

[@renerosentraeger]

I´ll do so. Thank you!

[@joakimswahn9179]

You could probobaly save 50g by optimizing wire lengths on all your components.

[@seanday6127]

Idk for sure, but I would think slicing it with all the inside walls removed (i.e. as a "solid model") would the the lightest it could possibly be which might be a good way to check overall sizing of the jet before adding all the interior features that are required. That way you'd know if you can meet the weight before doing all that extra work (to make it functional) in the modeling. Also, 3D print lab does a trust style for internal structure which might be a lighter way to get the job done. It would be a crap ton more modeling work but maybe could be used for just some sections? Keep up the good videos and work.

[@renerosentraeger]

This sounds interesting! Do you got a link to the 3D LabPrint structure?

[@Joelmelanie]

Nice video mate, hope it will flies soon..but we learn during build progress to make it better

[@Shadeaflame]

I would love to see what you could do to make a drone that integrates FPV and due to the nature of your designs I think it would be possible to implement a 360 degree view. Keep up the great content I am building a drone myself for my first project going ok so far.

[@renerosentraeger]

An fpv Version is planed 👌

[@cauro8713]

Whats is size hope for EDF 70 mm ( 6s battery ?) with this New design ?

[@renerosentraeger]

We start with 50mm, next is 70mm (yes 6S) and finally 90mm EDF.

[@mytubehkjt]

Remember that with 3d printing weight vs cut out volume is counter intuitive. The bigger the hole you create the more material you need to complete the inner surface. The lightest nose cone for example is one outer shell and infill; or if you don't want infill then one outer shell and ribs but no inner shell. If you don't need the internal space then don't create it.

[@renerosentraeger]

Absolutely, that´s the point mate.

[@narnasqueneth]

Switch that receiver for an ELRS one (which now supports SBUS output) if you really need ctol flight stabilisation, you could run a Radiolink BYME-A gyro. However, overall, I think you should look into using the flight controller more instead of relying on a receiver with stabilisation. Are you aware that iNAV version 7 (due to be released in the coming few months) will support VTOL and CTOL- that might help you. Excellent videos- please keep them coming!

[@narnasqueneth]

also, could you potentially save some weight by running all similar voltage items (eg servos) on one positive and negative wire? There may be some weight savings to be had there.

[@renerosentraeger]

Thanks for sharing this. Yes of cause, FC and iNAV is it´s own chapter and we just started to figure out a fitting solution.

[@sebastiantomczyk4577]

So the airfoild is shrinking proportionally as you move towards the wing tip?

[@mikekelly6774]

I use a similar design technique and found that for many parts I could print with a single wall and set all the infill overlap settings to 0, which keeps the infill pattern from showing through the outer skin. I lowered the weight by quite a bit.

[@renerosentraeger]

Absolutely, I ended up at 8% overlap. The showing through the skin can also be prevented with setting the print order to "Outer wall bevor infill"

[@sampamnl.8964]

Thank you so much.

[@gafrers]

Quality development. Quality project. Wonderfully explained as always

[@renerosentraeger]

Your feedback is gladly welcome :)

[@FP3DStudio]

Amazing project! Is possible to have the source file in solidworks to collaborate to study something for weight reduction? I'm mechanical engineering and I'm working with 3D printers. Where could I send you a message?😊

[@renerosentraeger]

Just visit my website www.composite-visions.de for contacting.

[@MultiHoweee]

👍

[@rawdog7220]

Have you tried a different infill pattern to try to save weight? I have found that the cubic infill can be quite efficient for weight to stiffness.

[@renerosentraeger]

Yes I did this with all available infills. When it comes to 3D geometrie volumic infill, Gyroid is by far the best.

[@clementlevert6059]

@@renerosentraeger I'd love to see data about this affirmation. Except for TPU where I need the object to be able to bend, I have always used cubic infill, which in my experience was more robust and lightweight

[@Hook0403]

This is incredible. I subbed because the quality of content is outstanding and the subject of your content really sparks my interest!

[@renerosentraeger]

Welcome on board man!

[@deannie3088]

Hi there guys, great great video, i was wondering whether you can go into more detail the types of material you use for the printing?

[@renerosentraeger]

Check out my KZbin channel for this 🔧🙌

[@SiThu-xc7rk]

What software do you use to draw and design the model? Solidwork, sketchup or something else?

[@renerosentraeger]

Solid Works

[@andrewklug4845]

Wow fantastic work and information! May I ask if you are going for acrobatic why use NACA 2411 over a symmetric airfoil as many 3D planes would have? Inverted flight would be much easier.

[@renerosentraeger]

I got very good experience with the NACA 24... series on my Su-XR. It also works perfect with droop noses, even during invertet flight. The higher lift coefficient on the 24 is more important for the major flight envelope of the JRM-01.

[@Munky332]

what are you using to design/3d model these aircraft?

[@renerosentraeger]

Solid Works

[@NorixR]

I am in love with this

[@peterstone3878]

Really amazing work! Even University professor can't do this!

[@WernerBeroux]

Reduce the hidden walls. Most 3D printed airplanes have noinfill and just walls are glues (without top/bottom) usually. As long as a wall isn't for strength, remove it. Similar deal with servo. Each servo may be less than 9g however the opening for it and the cables add a lot of weight.

[@smh1448]

CREATE ROOM FOR FPV HEAD TRACKING...

[@renerosentraeger]

For sure 👌

[@trasher2848]

Anstatt solide Wände einzuziehen, könntet ihr in selbige kreisförmige Ausschnitte einfügen, oder generell auf Verstrebungen zur Erhöhung Steifigkeit zurückgreifen. Ähnlich wie bei den Rippen von Tragflächen lassen sich dadurch bestimmt 30%-50% des Gewichts einer herkömmlichen Wand einsparen. Außerdem könntet ihr versuchen anstatt Cutouts zu machen, das Infill größer zu skalieren um es leichter zu machen, also weniger Verstrebungen im Infill für größere Volumen zu verwenden.

[@aarongoebel3979]

so cool gonna try it when i get my 3d printerr in a much smaller scale

[@GuusK]

Can the JRM-01 go from hovering to full flight ?

[@GuusK]

Why not loose the slats to reduce weight? . I thinks they are not necessary

[@jimmy13sloth]

what cad software are you useing to design it

[@abdulmenaftimburlenk1744]

ultimaker cura

[@AzzaFortysix]

@@abdulmenaftimburlenk1744 Cura is the slicing software, not the cad software, it's different

[@abdulmenaftimburlenk1744]

@@AzzaFortysix sorry

[@AzzaFortysix]

@@abdulmenaftimburlenk1744 I believe he made it in Solidworks

[@marcphilippveenendaal4394]

I use SolidWorks- René and I screen share over Zoom to develop the design

[@John-gw3mj]

Is there any kind of expanding foam that you could use instead of the infill? It might be too much of a pain to print and fill but I wonder whether you could get away with 0% infill (or 5% lightning/tree for top-surface support) and then add the structural strength after printing by injecting some lightweight foam in.

[@renerosentraeger]

The whole jet is already printed out of a foaming filament.

[@MikeNugget]

Omg, it is so heavy from plastic anyway. Try high dense foam CNC milling.