Repairman's Overview: Conn 10M Tenor Saxophone

[@StohrerMusic]

You can hear the horn I used for this video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmTLiKuemblofJo

[@StohrerMusic]

Thank you! I was very burnt out at the end of a long day in a series of long days when I made this, so I'm glad it turned out ok. Especially since it would be a little while before I got another one this clean in the shop. I love 10Ms.

[@ladyface37]

Hi Matt I'm a semiproffessional saxophone player and woodwindteacher who lives in Sweden. For about twenty years ago i came over a 10m Naked lady with serial 282814 wich was manufactured about 1937. At the moment i was playing a Selmer mark VI from 1961 which was really good horn but not with the sound i "had in my head". A friend of mine whi owned a music store, and knew my ambivalence about the Selmer, called me and sad he had the horn for me. I went to the store and was astouniched. This was the sound i've been looking for. I've played it since then in bouth Soul, Blues, Musical (Chicago for example), Big band and even classical venues where my teacher at the time said it was the best intonation he ever heard on a tenor. So i agree with you. It is for me the best horn i ever played and i have tryed out hundreds of horns trough my over fourty years of playing. Thanks for a good video and keep up the good work. Mikael Högdahl

[@fraserfilms7380]

Mikael Högdahl I have a 1937 10m. as well but it has nickel keys

[@beflat10r]

I bought my 1st horn ever- a Conn10M- off a repairman in Philadelphia named George Sarkis. I was 15yrs old at the time (decades ago ) and just starting out on saxophone. Studying bassoon and started out on clarinet. Of course I was consumed with the music and everything and everyone saxophone. I was so enamored of shiny horns though, so I had it re-lacquered. Then I became enamored of Selmer balanced actions and sold the 10M back to Sarkis. Great video/horn work. You must be the cat in Chicago.

[@melvinbridgewater6402]

Conn-gratulations on such a rich source of educational (musical) information. I have a 1935 Conn 10M which is probably relacquered because the 10M symbol is missing.

[@iBug]

Wow, great condition ! Lovely original engraving. Hard to believe this one's over 70 years old. Thanks for the tips on what to look out for and what to expect.

[@sequoyahcisneros8719]

I'm lucky to have an excellently playing 307xxx pre wwii conn 10m as my first professional, love it so much. Thanks for the helpful info

[@henrymarocchi7844]

Very cool, I just purhcased my first pro sax and among the ones I tried were 2 10ms I just wish they were prewar because the ones I tried were awefull. I ended up getting up a Yamaha and I love it, it's an absolute dream to play

[@sequoyahcisneros8719]

@@henrymarocchi7844 nice, I've heard some ups and downs about Yamaha, and of the ones Ive played, I like purple labels and the custom Z, but imo it was just too much money for just not the same sound as the conn, but the action on it and its ability in altissimo is outstanding. What model did you purchase?

[@henrymarocchi7844]

@@sequoyahcisneros8719 I tried all of them and went with the 875ex. Not sure if I mentioned but its a tenor. Out of everyone I played this one was the most free blowing and easy to play while being versital Enough to play the music I have for jazz as well as my classical pieces. I agree with you that it was a lot but I'm only 15 so I've got plenty of years ahead of me to get my money's worth.

[@sequoyahcisneros8719]

@@henrymarocchi7844 lol neat, I'm 15 too, I was just curious, I personally prefer vintage for jazz, and specifically Yamaha for classical, I think I've heard of yours before, my Conn cost me 2800 with a meyer 6 opening mouthpiece

[@henrymarocchi7844]

@@sequoyahcisneros8719 yeah I agree with you but this I felt like was good enough for both styles. Im playing on a vandoren Java but I hate it and everything about it. Good luck with playing it was pretty cool talking to someone who is so similar to me.

[@phooesnax]

Good Job.... A very forgiving horn. Many play great and in tune and then you toss a light in and find out that even with leaks they are pretty good. Tight they are awesome. The rolled tone holes are awesome and very easy on pads. The set screws when in good condition seat on very nice pivot screws and allow nice adjustment. Nice job Matt.

[@joshcharlat850]

phooesnax I had mine repadded and adjusted. Now I had that low Bb and ... WOW!! You're so right.

[@jtheriault16]

Great video of a great horn! I was fortunate enough to own a pre-war 10M when I was 13 or 14 years old. Unfortunately I didn't appreciate the horn at the time. Like a fool, I later sold that saxophone. Since I have returned to playing after a long break, I have really been kicking myself in the tail for selling it. Someday I will replace it, even it is just for nostalgia!

[@edgarallanpoestheblackcat6613]

Wow, it's like in mint condition

[@FoundSounds51]

I play a post war 10m and the G# key was always sticking. ALWAYS. I tried a few things to get it to open properly including some oil that my repairman told me to try, but I finally solved the problem by putting a small wedge of silicone in the pinky table to hold the G# open while in the case. Since I started doing that, no more sticking G# and no more wrong notes. (mostly...)

[@thomaskipfer1008]

Your information is very important to me. I have a late '69- 10M. Immediately after mine, the quality started to falter. Mine looks like a war happened to it. Perfect playable condition. I'm lucky to have an underslung neck, it plays like a dream horn!

[@codyunczur7527]

Love the pre-war 10Ms. I've got one from 1937. Most of my lacquer is gone now, but it is simply an amazing sounding sax. Not the most ergonomically friendly tenor, with the neck and unbalance strap ring placement, but plays great.

[@00DirectorsCut00]

Great video . Can you feel tone, volume, blowing or other differences between a mint condition like this and a natural time unlaquered one? Thanks

[@StohrerMusic]

Not if they are in equal operating condition, in my experience. People tend to ascribe the things they hear to the things they see, and there isn't much more obvious than color. Horns that are in better condition are typically easier to repair, so they might be in better shape more often. Horns that have been relacquered are typically harder to make reliable mechanically, for instance. But the difference is always in the actual playing condition, not the condition of the finish- although there can be a correlation between the two, it is not necessary.

[@00DirectorsCut00]

Stohrer Music thank you very much for answer

[@davidsmusic]

what a great video!! I am from chile but I live in Germany and I play the tenor horn shooting stars (mexican one), it has a huge sound when I had compared with chinesse students horns, of course the mechanism is not so friendly but with my hands has been fitting (specially the palm keys); I wanna upgrade in the future to the naked lady, everyone that play it sounds incredible!! Regards and I am suscribed yet! :D

[@sapwood]

I appreciate your videos. They consistently help me better understand my vintage instruments and their care. I recently purchased an original lacquer 1946 10M that has a cracked in the tenon receiver as you describe. Do you have a machinist fabricate these? Thank you.

[@StohrerMusic]

depending on how severe the crack is, yes. A minor one can sometimes be worked around, major ones often mean the tenon needs to be replaced. I have wondered about the possibility of brazing the cracks, but I think that would deform or weaken the metal at that point (since brazing temperatures partially anneal that spot) and simply create more problems down the road. Usually a tenon/receiver set is what you will need, and after soldering them on you will likely find you still need to do at least a bit of neck fitting to get it perfect.

[@sapwood]

Thank you. I wondered about brazing, but you make a good point.

[@sapwood]

I had a new tenon and receiver manufactured by Michael the Barnes in England. He even made a new plug for the receiver, He did a great job, and everything matches the originals very well. Do you generally leave replaced parts unlacquered on try to match the original lacquer?

[@super20dan]

you didn t mention the strap ring is located for playing sitting down. its awkward to play standing up. I added a second strap ring

[@rufusrepublic6910]

I found the body of a 10 M in an antique store, and they only wanted $80 for it.

[@live4491]

What?????

[@ericwobschall8410]

Was probably going to be a lamp. Or maybe someone stripped it for parts.

[@wyattb954]

I just got a 10M for free😂 it sat in someone's attic in florida for years and got corroded but now I have a 10M I'm working on repairing

[@vintagesouthern54]

Why do you think Conn quit using rolled tone holes. I have a 1947 Conn 10m 32689x, It has the straight tone holes. I think that it was one of the first non-rolled tone hole versions.

[@Merf1195]

is it possible to manufacture an SML RevD neck tenon for a Conn 10M? And if so, how involved a process would it be?

[@xanderhofferman3157]

Zaelo911 If you check with the music medic/saxpro shop, I've seen some of their custom bueschers, and I think they consider what you're talking about a pretty standard modification. You could always contact them about it

[@RhondaChalonemusic]

I have a 1933-1934 transitional Conn Tenor. It's been overhauled and re-laquered in the 80s. It's the last year before the official 10m. Other than the re-laquering (takes away from value, I know) it is in fabulous shape. I also have the original case which is in great shape too. It's only been in my family. What range of value (to sell) would you put on it?

[@RhondaChalonemusic]

I have a 1933-1934 transitional Conn Tenor. It's been overhauled and re-laquered in the 80s. It's the last year before the official 10m. Other than the re-laquering (takes away from value, I know) it is in fabulous shape. I also have the original case which is in great shape too. It's only been in my family. What range of value (to sell) would you put on it? I'm happy to send you pics.

[@lapressedelalex2836]

I bought a 1932 Conn transitional tenor ten years ago, it cost me nearly 2000 euros at the time in a specialized shop. I'm searching for pics from this particular model for a while on the web but never found exactly the same. Mine has split bell keys and very few engravings. I'd be interested in some pics of yours if you have some.

[@RhondaChalonemusic]

@@lapressedelalex2836 I do. What is your email?

[@lapressedelalex2836]

@@RhondaChalonemusic ax.bourgois(at)gmail.com thanks !

[@ShadowSpartan9x]

I have a post-war circa 1960's double socket neck 10m that has poor tuning. How can I get it more consistent before adjusting embouchure?

[@mateuszosuch8828]

what is the best serial number of Conn 10M ???

[@captainsuperfly]

Great video. Thank you for sharing.

[@xaviermaulave1423]

Hello Matt, I hope you are doing very well despite the Covid disaster!........ Music will surely help us to survive! We had the chance to chat some years ago. I have a question for you today if you agree; from the Master Luther point of view is the tuning on a vintage in general and a 10M in Particular a potential headache? Is it (in absence of micro tuning screws) all about adding/removing corks thickness to interact with the height of the keys and find the sweet point? I have a 1939 Conn that do I maintain by my self for years; so far so good ( I am a goldsmith so we are sharing lot of things including bench and tools) The only slight issue I found is the tuning my horn plays sharp (a quarter tone sharp on the whole range) I cannot pull out my mpc more as it will fall on the floor! Do you have any advise please? Wishing you a Merry a very Safe and Happy and Peaceful Xmas and New Year 2021. Thank you so much in advance! Kind regards, Xavier

[@gcrav]

What type of mouthpiece are you using? 10M intonation is good with a large-chambered piece, such was standard during the time the 10M was designed. It can be wonky with a smaller-chambered piece. Playing unsolvably sharp suggests inadequate chamber volume.

[@xaviermaulave1423]

@@gcrav Hello and Happy New Year all the best in 2021 especially Health! Thank you ou for this reply. I am playing 10mfan Robusto and Showtime. Love them so much but need to flatten the whole range a bit! Thank you again!

[@gcrav]

@@xaviermaulave1423 Huh... I'm stumped. Anyway, best wishes back to you.

[@yasirudhananjaya6029]

Verry usafull viedeo thanks

[@TheFozzy222]

Hi there, ive just found this video and ive got a Conn tenor sax with a serial No of M197988.. Would you know what model this is Please? Ive been looking at various sites but cant find any info.. Thanks Paul

[@Jimoff2Gaming]

I have a question about my 10m and I was wondering if anyone can help me with it. My 10m is from 1941, and the person I purchased it from said it was all original, but I'm not sure. The laquer is a little lighter than most 10m's I've seen. The other thing that makes me question it is it has silver key work. They didn't put nickel keys on until the 50's, and the body of mine is for sure a 41. Any info? Thanks!

[@rkomada88]

It's very possible your saxophone had a key transplant, where keys from a 1960s horn were placed onto a 1940s body. So, why? The originals could have been destroyed in an accident, possibly, so it was just easier to get a used Tenor of a less valuable vintage, and then do the transplant to save a more valuable 1940s horn.

[@wckoek]

Hello, I am looking to buy a vintage tenor under $1,500, I heard that the newer Conn 10M wasn't as good as a "ladyface". There are 3 horns available to me: 1962 pre-Selmer Buescher 400 ($900), 1967 Conn 10M ($1,200), 50's "The Martin" Committee ($1,500). I wondered which one of the three do you think is a better horn?

[@classified9668]

Reminds of my aristocrat tenor, great horn

[@chitotanada1389]

hi you said the pre-war horns were built better than the post war....how? ive seen two of them side by side and I couldnt tell..

[@StohrerMusic]

I don't think I'd be able to tell just by looking at them either. There's two main categories: actual cheapening of the design. This happens over time but is much easier to see. First major step is losing rolled tone holes in 1947. Second category is actual decline in craftsmanship or material quality. This is not easy to see. The metal alloy seems to change over time, this is tangible on the repair bench when repairing bent keys. Earlier stuff is stiffer but also tends to be stronger. Later stuff is much more brittle. The workmanship in general also declines over time, probably the most visible aspect of this is the engraving- although that has nothing to do with the sound, it is a tangible marker of what is going on with the rest of the horn as far as precision and fit and finish and quality of materials.

[@chitotanada1389]

@@StohrerMusic Thanks a lot for the reply Matt. Will keep this in mind. More power to your channel !!! More videos on 10Ms please :-)

[@motivation89742]

What’s your opinion on the 6m alto? Is it as good as the 10m just in an alto version?

[@kevinngo9138]

What is that fourth key pearl do on the right hand?

[@KnobleKnight533]

It's an extra key for G#. I think main purpose is to help trills on that note

[@jazztin1219]

Can new wonder II ‘s left hang high D# key fit the new wonder I ??

[@richardcasey7521]

I can’t get comfortable with the position of the strap hook ring. It’s up too high. Surprised you didn’t mention that.

[@1dotele]

That is a common complaint that's why they are sometimes called conn cobras because they will bite you, music medic or Steve Goodson's Sax Gourmet have the 3 ring like on an old King and you can have it soldered on where you like it

[@RogerNordling]

Hi Matt, Thanks for your great informative videos, they ae really interesting and I learn a lot! Right now I have a Silver Conn 265xxx tenor on loan. The seller advertise it as a 10m ladyface, and yes it has the lady face engraving but no 10m stamp above the serial number. It has the bell keys on the left side and the left hand pinky table looks just as on this video. So my question is, is the horn I got a 10m or a chu? Thanks!

[@melvinbridgewater6402]

Thats a 10M....I own one serial # 265775. They have the engraving M before the serial #. They modified the fingerings and place bell keys on the left side in '35. Horns before 1935 were either New Wonder or modified New Wonder with many 10M qualities. You may have a Conn Transitional ?

[@MrDavePed]

My 10 M is # 276841. Thinking about selling it. I never play it. I also have a couple naked lady altos of the same pre-war era and a 1972 Yanagisawa alto. I bought it new at the time. They're in good playable shape. I had a local repairman get them all in working condition a while back. Except one old alto is missing a neck but the body is in great shape. I need to find a neck for an old naked lady alto. ..

[@billykahkonen5411]

Good morning Matt! I have a naked lady but I think she's a later transitional as it has split bell keys and the G-sharp nail file. The lady engraving is still sharp and beautiful though. Thoughts?

[@gcrav]

Lucky guy! Gold finish?

[@billykahkonen5411]

@@gcrav just regular brass but it's in incredible shape!

[@gcrav]

@@billykahkonen5411 Bare brass? Is your lady inside a pentagon or another shape? Portrait style or full figure? What's the rest of the engraving like? Floral? Scroll? Art-Deco?

[@billykahkonen5411]

It's brass lacquer with a regular naked lady

[@gcrav]

@@billykahkonen5411 Interesting. The earlier bare brass or lacquered ones didn't have the lady and were pretty plain with the engraving so I'm going to guess it's a later one, like 1934-ish.

[@maf9314]

Matt how do you compare the sound of 10m to new wonder 1

[@bigdaddy6119]

Your tenor doesn’t look like it’s oxidized at all! How have you kept good care of it? Mine on the naked lady part is a completely different color and there are oxidation spots all over

[@jrbeckman2194]

It's because that horn he has there has been relacquered. It's totally obvious it's not original finish as he claims. The engraving looks right because it's also obviously been recut. All super obvious.

[@MrRiguepeu]

I've got a Conn 10m naked lady 51 and its the best sax in the world.

[@alogenomontero9065]

Very Beautiful Saxophone Wonderful

[@VenhaVe]

Nice video! It's a good idea on these horns to move the connection for the neck strap to below the post of the side Bis key. Otherwise the snake might bite you.

[@gcrav]

That's easily solved with a brass repair plate such as you can buy in hardware stores. They have four holes for flathead screws. Attach the strap ring to the second hole from the top with a screw/nut combination (correct diameter is important for a snug fit). Ream out the hole you wish to use so your strap hook will fit through it. Be aware that the hole will eat a plastic strap hook, but brass hooks are better anyway.

[@cemi_llerena]

Hi Matt! what pads do you recommend for a 10M with Rolled tone Holes?

[@chriss1152]

I'm looking to buy one like this my budget is 2500 could you help me with this

[@StohrerMusic]

you will not find a mint condition freshly overhauled pre-war Conn 10M for $2500. At least one of those variables will have to change- condition, age, state of playing condition.

[@AlexWonderful]

How are the conn 16m saxes?

[@gcrav]

The earlier ones with "Elkhart" or "USA" engraved on the bell can be ok as far as student horns go. The ones produced in Mexico are best avoided. One can make a case that an American 16M is a safer bet than a later 10M because their simpler keywork was more suited to the quality standards Conn had when the later 10Ms were being produced. The double socket neck Conn put on the later 10Ms was also not a good feature.

[@SkylersRants]

I've never played a pre-war Conn, but my experience with Conn saxes in the 70's and 80's makes me really wonder what anyone could possibly want one for.

[@garylnsmith]

A lot of the vintage makes were totally different horns in the '70s and '80s compared to their production runs of the 30s, 40s, 50s, and sometimes 60s. As in, totally different horns. The Martin, for example, was a good horn in the early/mid 20th century, but they bought the name and stenciled it on totally different horns later on.

[@fabiobinda2662]

Hi. great video. My conn is 301459, they are twin

[@bradhollis9936]

My 10M is a 301162. Very close. They could have been womb mates.

[@fabiobinda2662]

+Brad Hollis Great

[@live4491]

Is this Stetson's 10M?

[@StohrerMusic]

Travis Cobb yep

[@live4491]

Knew it! This saxophone truly is phenomenal! You gave me a lot of insight to it, so thank you! I know he truly loves this sax as well Beautiful sound.... gotta find one

[@StohrerMusic]

Travis Cobb cool! I found this one for him, if you'd me to find and overhaul like one like it, get in touch.

[@live4491]

Let me save up a little first, but I definitely will!

[@rogerioaraujo9581]

preço?

[@Acorparation]

preceded and succeeded

[@ApartmentKing66]

Not to be a word nerd, but the opposite of "preceded" is "followed."

[@timmo491]

or 'post-dated'

[@TonyAguirreJazz]

no more sax porn

[@raefblack7906]

0:33

[@janjoop1]

My lady =from 1938

[@Craig2760]

Sax porn, plain and simple.

[@rkomada88]

If this is wrong I don't wanna be right.

[@timmo491]

Ante-ceded.