Repairs, Issues, & QC in the O Gauge Hobby!

Bad QC, sub-par electronics, cheap parts, and more in the Lionel and MTH O gauge/scale train room

[@3RailTom]

Zac, thank you for not kissing any ass with this video. You hit the nail on the head for a LOT of people that are getting silenced in the hobby, some even by hobby shops to just “complain to the manufacturer” and not to take to social media. People have been getting blocked when questions are posed on livestreams, it’s getting bad. You are the man 💯 I stand with you!

[@jub856]

Zac it’s sad but true there been issues with everything lately. New stuff arriving from the factory with screws and details just laying in the package. Repairs, maintenance, and lack of care from the manufacturer or previous owners. The cost has been passed to the new owner without care or concerns

[@eal8645]

Except Lionel comes with significant larger amount of defects.

[@Dakman]

I will be making a similar video in the next 3 weeks only with the Lionel made in Vietnam scale freight cars.

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

Look forward to seeing it!

[@jimmelchin1531]

Zach....a tip of the engineers cap to you. If we don't speak up with our issues, they would never be recognized. This video is a learning tool in itself. We should expect to obtain what we pay for...no matter what the price or the product. Thanks for reaching out to us ! 👍

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

Thank you Jim! I hate doing these types of videos, but it’s definitely been bugging me. Felt good to complain about it somewhere LOL Hopefully someone from there will listen, but I’m not holding my breath…

[@jimmelchin1531]

@@CountryBunkersTrains Good things come to those who wait ! 👍

[@nickpandolfi2234]

When are people going to get it through their head all the ranting and Raving on the Internet is not going to work for the love of God quit buying their products

[@MH-ey4co]

@@nickpandolfi2234 Did it. In 2018 (my first year in O), I had 3 engines returned for repair to Lionel and 2 more returned to dealers for refunds. That was all the convincing I needed. Since then, I have an absolute moratorium on new Lionel motive power. They better clean up their act and soon. The legions of baby boomer apologists won't be around forever.

[@davidgeorge8828]

I tip my hat to you Zac for telling it like it is. Lionel use to be a great company but today it is how much can we squeeze out of our customers. I wouldn't buy any of the high dollar engines they offer. You are right when you said Lionel loyalist get mad when you tell the truth about the bad quality of their products. This hobby started out as a toy for kids and the Lionel products of the 50's and 60's were very reliable. With technology of computer boards and the like the cost have skyrocketed. The price of new stuff today has taken the young people out of this hobby. To each their own, everyone has a favorite brand they like. I have been a Lionel person for a long time but not anymore.

[@williamlee1429]

You know where these are all made don't you? We need to look to who actually produced it. Lionel had nothing to do with it.

[@davidgeorge1560]

Yes, I know where they are being made. That is NO EXCUSE for Lionel because they are responsible for Quality Control. @@williamlee1429

[@mal15102]

"Prices have skyrocketed"? I'm not so sure. Seems like my dream loco in 1955 or so ... totally beyond my reach, was about $39. That's the equivalent to about $450 today which is more than a Chinese conventional loco would cost today. In fact, the Menards engines certainly offer more features for far less. Having said that, I too long for the bullet proof lionel of the past. I can't imagine my grandkids treating a $1200 loco of today like I did my old Texas Special.

[@jsallscales7856]

This is a video that I think many people have been waiting for. Funny enough, as I was watching this video yesterday the smoke unit in my Legacy class J quit working. I bought it on Friday and I fixed it myself last night. Not even 24 hours into owning it and had it apart 4 or 5 times. Which is a shame to me because otherwise it is a great model and beautiful runner. All 4 of my powered Lionel engines have had critical errors and operating limitations that needed work before I could run them, whereas only two of my 10 MTH engines needed major work, both PS3 that needed new boards, but they each lasted at least 1,000 or more scale miles before incident. None of my PS2 5v engines have given me issue. I don’t want to dislike Lionel but their current track record and my own personal experience leaves me practically no choice. I like the Lionels I have but unless they really improve their QC I don’t think I’ll buy another one going forward. Great vid, your honesty and delivery is very refreshing, especially now since it seems like people try to shame and silence anyone who has something even potentially negative to say about Lionel or one of their models. How can improvements be made if everyone wants to ignore and silence criticism? Perhaps I may touch on this subject myself in a video.

[@thetrainboard2772]

As a long term train guy, I applaud you and motocraze 2018 for addressing lionels apparent total lack of quality control, made even worse by lionel very high prices. My mth experience has been better, but I've got many mth deteriorated speakers. Worn out smoke fan motors, blown sound boards. I did find mth did have replacement parts but many more of us must learn to repair these engines. Hopefully, the ogr forum, john Nestlerode, train doctors, the henning boys, will help teach us repair skills.

[@jpthepenguin3833]

The crazy thing about all these comments is we want Lionel to fix it! To address, to comment, to understand and listen! Most, if not all of us have cherished, believed, trusted the legacy. Put up with China, Mexico, Vietnam production from oppressed 19 year olds spacing 16 hour days, (my opinion/and guilt), really how much more 19:35 expensive can domestic production be??? Yet what do we really hear from Lionel - silence. No acknowledgment, no “we hear you”, just silence. Damn right for 2,500.00 it should be right out of the box the bix I don’t want fix anything!

[@walteranderson5090]

I disagree! Lionel has to improve quality-control. The dissatisfaction from Lionel hobbyist is growing louder and stronger. As noted on the back page of the 2023 catalog. Lionel went out of their way to have statements by people about how happy they are with their products. The OGR forum dampens the criticisms and disappointment by owners who have received damaged and missing parts in new expensive items. That can be understood. However people are going to have to continue to put up videos and comments on forums wherever. And continue to hold Lionels feet to the fire.

[@jarhead58884]

You are not the only one having issues with Lionel. I hear a lot of individuals on KZbin having the same problems that you described. Me being an MTH fan I tried to stay away from Lionel products. I do get tempted every once in a while to go on the other side of the track and get into the Lionel System. But every time I think about it, I noticed another video being published about the horror of the quality control of Lionel. The second issue that I have with Lionel is their rolling stock. Their prices are more expensive and the details are not as good as MTH. And that’s sad. I do have some Lionel rolling stock, but all my powered engines are MTH and rolling stocks are MTH and Atlas with a handful of Lionel rolling stock.

[@jjbarrosjr]

I bought two Lionel Verandas brand new. Both of them were in pieces when I took them out of the box. After seeing this video and understanding the issues both of us have had I am more than confident that Lionel does NOT test anything electrical. Engines, remotes, transformers, absolutely nothing. Their QC department is the worst I’ve ever seen. They probably don’t even have one and just hope for the best after final assembly. Very disappointing the Lionel corporation is to me. We can only hope the MTH makes a come back someday. I really wish Mike Wolf had just sold MTH as a whole to someone who really would have cared and continued making catalogs. It’s an absolute shame that we as the consumer do not have many options to chose from.

[@jerzeydolphins]

Heres something you didn't say and I will say for you, all the time wasted on these broken trains has taken away from you making your Train Rooms even better,

[@bobdutka1176]

Things are only going to get worse with Lionel now that MTH isn't much of a threat in the marketplace. It's already showing in their exorbitant pricing. As for the wiring China doesn't do AWG wire ratings.. if you look the wire looks the same gauge but look at the copper content or aluminum, China has only 1/3 the amount the rest is plastic insulation.... garbage!! Sssoooo unless your getting smooshed by Lionel and opening your packages with a 1948 African Bull Snott reversible double hook limited edition Stanley knife things are not going to get better. A new person to this hobby... will quit! Thanks for the vid.👍👌😄

[@georgewoodget271]

Zac you paid good Money for those Lionel Engine. You have the right to demand a quality product from Lionel Trains. I also sent a new ConRail SD70 Ace and a Southern Pacific Steam engine back to Lionel for repairs. They worked good for 1 day And completely broke drown again. Now I have to drive about 4 hrs round trip to get these engines repaired. No more Lionel Engines for me. MTH or Williams by Bachman only.

[@stephenrickjr.7519]

Thanks for reinforcing my decision not to buy lionel for more than 10 years now. I feel for you good luck with getting your engines repaired. 👍!

[@dewittkandle5674]

Zach you're absolutely right, you never know when you open up a box coming from Lionel what to expect.It's always a mystery what you're going to find and the real scary part is when you get something from Lionel and you shake the Box and you hear something rolling around in there that's when you really start to get scared. Lionel has absolutely no quality control,the people that make their products don't care if they drop it on the floor they'll put it right back in the box.

[@dalediethorn1481]

Zack, you’re right on with QC issues. 2 brand new engines, both over 1k and parts loose in box. WTF Both lionel, on 1 rather than sending me the part, attached w 2 screws they want me to send engine back. Double WTF. This causes me to rethink anything in 2023 release engines

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

Ouch!! That’s terrible! I know it all too well though. This Class A had loose screws with it, I’ll be damned if I know where they go.. just keep getting worse and worse it seems.. same here! I couldn’t bring myself to order any engines out of the new book..

[@unclebuck5592]

Great video. Glad to see the problems being posted on You Tube with regards to the poor quality products that we are paying big money for. I too have had my problems and I am going to tell everyone about them. I had ordered the re-introduced MTH Big Boy . Unpacked the engine, put it on the track, went through the basics like horn, crew talk, tower talk, started the engine in motion and it only went a few inches. The drive wheels locked up due to not being properly assembled and with power to it the main board it fried. Contacted the shop where I bought it, told them the problems. I shipped it back and went for the refund. I had waited how many months because it was a pre order and that happened. There wouldn't of been a problem if there was any Quality Control. Now I'm out my return shipping cost. Now I don't have the new BAD boy because they were all gone. I had ordered the Lionel Legacy Army version of the Veranda Turbine. Opened the box, pulled back the wrapping paper and one of the powered truck units was hanging down, not even screwed in. Contacted the hobby shop and returned it for another one that was properly assembled. Apparently there were other engines with the same assembly problem. Where is the quality control? Had another lionel SD90 Legacy 6-82763. There were problems with the main board. Ordered another board and it didn't work properly. Contacted Lionel and they said I must of gotten a bad board. Well I'm out my money for that defective board and now they are unavailable. Once again, where is quality control? It would be great if the manufacture's would stand behind their products! Haha. We pay a lot for these high end train engines, how about a long and lasting product? now that we are speaking out, I'm sure there will be other customers that will voice there opinion. We are the customers that these manufacturers make their income off of. If they loose the customers, they loose their income!

[@whitmorestrains]

It’s going to take a voice as big as yours to be heard. Thank you for doing this! I have been having issues with almost all of my Lionel engines lately. It is frustrating for sure. We are forced to preorder, wait 6 months, then it comes in and doesn’t run. There really isn’t any acceptable reason for this. All you can do is speak on a platform where the most people can hear you, and stop financing it through the preorders. I just tell myself that it isn’t going to work when I get it anyhow, so I saved myself $5k this catalog.

[@rolandmetzner8177]

Thanks for your review. Its the very reason I try to stay away from electronic engines. I enjoy my prewar postwar & MPC engines. Have an 1928 #248 electric that I've had less trouble with then some of my newer engines. Enjoy my Williams for trouble free running. Hope it all comes together for you. Enjoy running them trains.

[@jerzeydolphins]

I really can't express my true feelings on all these issues stemming from Lionel, Commonsense should come into play here and i get it you hobbyist that heavily invest into these AWESOME Trains just want to enjoy your Hobby and i don't blame you, so please a bit of thinking and researching and you will see, LIONEL MUST start another Manufacturing plant here in America.

[@Frank-is9ke]

Lionel has some really good tech.....but, Trains, yes plural and rolling stock, you have to keep your fingers crossed anytime you have something on order from Lionel. Sad but true. I've been in the hobby for 2 years. 90% of what I have is Lionel. My first train was a disaster! 2 8 4 berkshire LC+2.0. It went to the warranty dept twice before they replaced it. They replaced it with the same model, including the same defect. Very frustrating! You would think they would've examined the second, NOPE. So I am moving on to MTH, Alas, 3rd rail anybody but Lionel at least for now!

[@mfog5543]

I love my MTH trains........always will.

[@VintageRenewed]

I do love new engines with sound and detail along with the postwar stuff Something that I have done though is that all of my new built highly Detailed engines and cars are all HO scale While all my O gauge stuff is postwar Even though I only have space for an o gauge layout, I find that it works out kind of well having the super detailed stuff as a separate scale

[@wclaurence]

I live vicariously through you, and a couple of other KZbinrs, who have these gorgeous O Scale locomotives. I also belong to the FaceBook group 'O Gauge Model Railroading Tips & Tricks and more'. I have heard the complaints regarding the cost, and of the faulty workmanship of brand new locos right out of the box. I feel your pain. I commend you on your diplomacy. I have a small collection of Lionel traditional O gauge locos and cars from the '80s, '90s, and '00s, that were inexpensive, and that I run conventionally with CW-80 transformers with no issues. I find them attractive, in their own small way, and fun to run.

[@jimdavis3913]

Zach very informative video.I have mostly mth ps2 engines.have had very few problems with them.Lionel seems to have lots of problems from what is on you tube.

[@robbern2150]

Sorry to hear about all your problems, Lionel's QC leaves much to be desired, but you have had exceptionally bad luck even by Lionel's standards. Over last ten years, I have accumulated the same number of Lionel locomotives, I have had 1 complete board failure (due to underlying causes), 1 dead on arrival (which I exchanged), and almost all of my Lionel locomotives have their quirks and blemishes. MTH has somewhat better quality control, most of my collection is MTH diesels. The PS3 wireless draw bar is a brutal design, and source of many problems. Your Vision Line Class A is fabulous, I own one myself, and run it all the time. Stick with it, I think it will be a great runner once you work out the teething issues.

[@franciscoppola1129]

Well put Zac. I have been experiencing many of the same problems with Lionel. I too have a Lionmaster Challenger and it lost its sound after only a few hours of use. Lionel cannot get me a new sound board and so if I want to use it….no sound whatsoever. Almost 20 years of disappointment. One of many electronic problems with Lionel. I have a ZW-C that has never worked and Lionel couldn’t find the problem so I use the two 180 watt bricks that came with it as power for command control and Lion Chief locos. I also use my 2 275 watt ZW transformers through Lionel power distribution lock one for circuit protection. Those old transformers have never ever failed me! I have not had much luck with MTH locos either. I keep 2 of my main lines on one of the ZW transformers just for my post war locos. Those old engines {and I have upwards of 40!] never fail! And are easy to rebuild and maintain.. by the way I have been in this hobby my whole life , starting with my father when I was a tot and I will be 70 in a couple of months, and I am a big fan of your videos

[@tomrogers5516]

A really honest and thoughtful survey of your real life experience with high end Lionel and MTH models, Zach. I'm not surprised to hear about frustration with Lionel's newer products. They seem to not have any consistent quality control over the manufacturing anymore. I don't know if their production is based in China or Viet Nam, but oversite is definitely not a priority. I think MTH has had their production base in South Korea (I think). Now that Mike has dropped the reins, I don't know what's happening, so I hope they're still dependable for your sake. Lionel seems to be all about making lots of money with cheap parts. Trying to pass off a 'silk purse, made out of a sow's ear', as my grandmother would say!!

[@larken24]

Honestly you’re spot on with modern Lionel, that’s the main reason why I only target things made before 2007, because they’re more reliable, sound better, and give me nostalgia

[@jebbthetrainkid1281]

Lots of Times we purchase a Second Hand Engine we are purchasing someone else's Problems. Especially on Ebay. Not everyone is Honest. It's a Chance we Take. New Lionel Engines suffer from poor quality control from China. Lionel needs to return back Home to the USA.

[@simonetaormina7080]

I was in an O guage club, old the old timers, Lionel swear by it and walk in with MTH trains still making every excuse to defend Lionel. Todays world. If it sucks ass defend it anyway.

[@ghettobat1097]

I got into the hobby about a year and a half ago. I made some posts on the O gauge formum and was quickly bashed. Had these people telling me I need to have patience with all these problems I was having. Patience is not in the vocabulary for a toy that cost $650. Got items back from Lionell that were more broken than they were being sent in.

[@Robs3railtrains]

Have a PS-2 triplex I picked up at York a few years ago. Ran around the layout a few times and started jerking terribly. Sound went out as well. Had it upgraded to PS-3 and ran great for a week until all the inner components failed and the tether and most wiring melted. Put a front coupler on it, removed the drivetrain and it’s a dummy engine. Oh well

[@105C09]

Lionel continues to have neither quality control nor a decent standarization of replacement parts. Too oftern, a product 5 years old or older is no longer supported. This should have been addressed years ago and a better parts support network. I still amazed at the prices for DCS or Command Control handheld controllers. There's no justification for charging more for these units than a better smartphone!

[@scottstrainloft5965]

Thank you Zack for the honest and up front discussion. I have a few MTH issues, but overall very happy with their products. Between your comments and Mike’s recently, I am happy I have avoided Lionel as I have gotten back into this hobby. Thanks for sharing.

[@henryszubielski8601]

Zach, I understand your pain. When it is new, it should be right. But, sometimes that happens. As long as the manufacturer takes care of it. Second hand is a crap shoot. Like you, I was fortunate ending up with two NOS. A Reading T-1 and a WM H-9 by MTH. A NS SD70ACe, by Lionel, had to have its couplers replaced. The originals would not open by the remote, without help. Both looked slightly twisted and the knuckles looked slightly bent inward. I replaced them myself. It was cool of Lionel to take care of you Legacy remote! I hope all of your other locomotives come back operating correctly. For the price of some of these "toys", the quality control should be better. The manufacturer should also be carrying the replacement and repair parts for a longer period of time. That's how they'll prove they support the customer. Good luck! And, keep enjoying your layouts and trains. Your video's are always worth watching!

[@tallmanfromcornwall1229]

Thanks for posting this. I personally struggle with this hobby for a number of reasons. And I'm very close to abandoning it. I have LCs, LC+ and LC+ 2.0 engines only. My experience is similar to yours. My LC+2.0 lost the smoke unit in the first week (brand new purchase). Rather than pay through the nose to ship it, I tried to fix it myself. Ended up frying the motherboard. I ordered another motherboard and installed it myself. It wasn't hard, and I swear the engine runs better than new. Smoke still doesn't work, but at least it has sounds and runs. You have helped me confirm what I've been doing. I won't spend more $ for higher end Lionel. It's one thing for a $300 or $400 engine to fail... a $2000 vision line? Not a chance. I don't have $2000 in my entire layout. QC has gone in the toilet across the board. From fast food to surgery. Not many people take pride in their work anymore. Sad.

[@Nick-md2ro]

I hear you I'm going to be sticking to Lionel's older tmcc engines and the atlas with tmcc control from now on. unless Lionel decides to catalog an dummy legacy engine I wouldn't mind having

[@trainman07011]

Being in HO, I am always jealous of the size and bulk of O gauge. HO is definitely not without similar problems that are outlined here. However I will say that Lionel has been a miserable failure in HO more than once, MTH was never more than second class to other HO brands and Bachmann (Williams to you) is, well, Bachmann... We have a far better QC and longevity record in HO. The issues being outlined here are some of the primary things that keeps me out of O.

[@charlesmcclure5994]

Well Zack I think you did a great job it looks fantastic and if you're happy with it that's what counts 👍👍

[@ryans1010]

I’m so happy I made the switch over to MTH! I had issues with Lionel and their track

[@jsgtrains3176]

Hi Zac, Thanks for doing this! Let the truth be told. I too have loved Lionel over the years, but these wuality issues are crap, snd need to be addressed. I cannot believe they feel they will be around for another hundred years, by not addressing this? I have cancelled all engine preorders based yours, Mike Lovasco's snd my recent quality issues. You hit the nail on the head. You should not have to open a top of line 2k engine period!! The other part of this is, I live on the west coast. Shipping yo and from manufacturers is not cheap. Plus, there is always a concern of my item coming back scratched, or even worse, someone else's loco. I recently bought a simple boxcar, and box received in perfect condition, however, upon opening clam shell, both trucks were off, and bushings and screws were gloating around. Could not remove screw on shell to put back together as it was stripped. This was a $90 car!! I am done! BTW. I love your movie inserts to videos, especially the one with garbage bags!! Joe Gozzo

[@georgebenson6036]

I have an L&N GP-9 525 and mine works well still.

[@Apache-fm8tc]

Zitniks is the only dealer I use. Dave and Gail couldn't be greater people than they are . I always say if Zitniks doesn't have it or can't get it , I don't need it .

[@markharrison3445]

You are very good humored about your troubles. I will stay with my conventional locos. No smoke, no sound but they always run with minimal maintenance.

[@jarhead58884]

BTW, excellent review and thank you for sharing your experience 👍👍👍

[@MH-ey4co]

Nice job on this video. It's not a hatchet job. It's an honest assessment of one man's challenges (and my experience is similar). Lionel's recent performance is poor relative to their own history and relative to their contemporary competitors. Nostalgic baby-boomers have kept them afloat for far too long. In large part, Gen-Xers, Millennials, and future generations see (and will see) Lionel trains as just another toy/brand. Most didn't grow up with a Lionel train as the prized possession of their youth. I'm in that group. For me, it's a model train, an adult toy that no child could afford. When I lay down that kind of dough, it damn well better work as advertised or that s__t is going back! Companies change. Hopefully, they improve.

[@northwoodstrains7182]

Nice video Zach and thank you for your overview. Can I ask your thoughts on using ZW power with the slow breakers with the new modern Era locos? Especially MTH? Thanks in advanced.....

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

Thank you! For the ZW’s and modern trains, I can’t say I fully “recommend it”. Would definitely advise installing some fast acting breakers if possible, but personally have never experienced much issues out of them. I did have one a while back going off with my MTH Rio grande. It shorted and I didn’t catch it immediately. The engine had a light aroma coming off of it, but it didn’t seem to really hurt it. It’s still working 100%. Luckily it seems to have powered through that with no issues. But I would say it is a gamble….

[@garyruark9506]

I wish MTH would release wiring diagrams for Proto 2. I could fix them if I knew specs. There are days when I'm ready to sell all the trains. It can be very frustrating and as I age I don't need frustration.

[@trainwild]

Hi Zach, good for you for bringing up these issues. They really need to step up their game and pay more attention to customer service and Quality control. All of these products are very expensive, and we should get what we pay for. Good job bringing these issues to their attention. At some point, things do need to get better! 😜

[@genemanno1533]

You pointed out the reliability of post war and ease of repair. That is enough for me coming from a respected guy as yourself to stay with post war engines as I have and remain as such. The “board” issues and cost alone will eliminate me from any possible interest in newer engines. Maximum plastic detail when delicate worries me for breakage. Scale or Lionel sub sized engines is not a concern of mine. But then again my layout is small with tight curves of 027 track. I can honestly say the most expensive post war engine cost me $75 last year. Currently, this year, I haven’t spent over $65 and that was for Lionel 2023 double A combo. The $100 engine and $12 car limit is my wall to spend on post war (prior to 1959) toy trains. And I have not had trouble staying under it. You have performed an honest evaluation IMHO. I like your presentations. THANK YOU

[@Tonyfishtail]

For that amount of money it should be flawless!! You calling it like you see it is always a good thing!! The craftsmanship can't compare to the 70 year old trains still running on and on. Bravo my friend!

[@simonetaormina7080]

Your absolutely right you shouldn’t have to open a new 2K locomotive, excuses, excuses, wait till we see what Atlas does to MTH. That’s the real question

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

It will be interesting to see how well Atlas is able to do with the old MTH engines. A couple of them seem to have recently shown up, but have yet to really hear of anything about them.

[@joeystrains.9316]

Hey Zach, maybe you and motocraze40 2018 together can bring change. He's selling all his newer Lionels because of the inexcusable behavior of the Lionel corporation. Great video!

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

Doubtful, but it would be nice to see a better end product for sure.. he’s definitely been moving some product! Thanks Joey!

[@KiskiDivisionRailroad]

Very well made video with great points. It makes me happy that a large 3 rail channel isn't afraid to tell it like it is with these manufacturers, something that is severely lacking in this hobby in my opinion.

[@curtislynch8189]

Lionel’s factories must not have much oversight from the company itself. Most of my stuff works great and isn’t missing anything, but the new class a was missing the headlight bezel out of the box. I think it was a combination of fed ex and the gloss paint not allowing the glue to adhere. I have the frisco 4-8-4 and one of the handrails has come loose from the pilot and the whistle steam has never worked. If you flip the switch to on the engine won’t move. I have an A-B-B-A Norfolk Southern executive set of f units and they are terrible. The powered b unit was inoperable out of the box, traded it for a working model from the store I got them from. The left side of one of the a units is missing a marker light. There’s no hole, no lens, it’s just smooth. When they’re lashed they don’t run too good either so for now they’re sitting in the boxes.

[@azslotracer]

Thanks Zach for the honesty! I just can't watch anymore and feel your frustration. This will lead me to keep running my dependable MTH engines and postwar pieces

[@lionelmpc]

Great video Zac! I have a postwar style layout and most of my trains are from approximately 2000 or earlier - mostly pre and postwar, with some MPC and LTI. I've stayed away from modern Lionel because of issues like this. I just can't understand how anyone could ship out a $2000 locomotive with issues. One thing I've experienced with Postwar Lionel that is almost never mentioned is that there were quality control issues back then too. I've bought several high grade Lionel postwar sets and locomotives in the last few years, and nearly all of them had some sort of serious defect with the E-unit, motor or chassis - likely from the factory - so they barely got played with. Being postwar they were all easily repairable, but I can't help but imagine some poor kid's Christmas in the 1950s getting ruined! The vast majority of trains were fine, got played with and show it. Most people that run postwar aren't so picky about them being in perfect condition. Most high grade items end up on a collector's shelf. I would bet that is why you hardly ever hear complaints about old Lionel. The big difference is that the trains Lionel makes now are not toys in the same way old Lionel trains were. Most are far more complicated scale models made in far lower quantities with a price to match. Given the price and target market you would expect that they would have far more stringent quality checks. From the amount of complaints I've seen that apparently isn't the case. If I bought a $2000 locomotive and it arrived with problems I'd be mad too! Something definitely needs to change. I feel like I should mention that I also have a modern Marklin HO layout. I have engines from the 1950s that I've installed DCC decoders and 5-pole motors in, and I've done a few decoder upgrades on newer engines as well to get more features. My modern Marklin locomotive fleet is 100% MFX/DCC sound and all of my steamers have smoke units installed. I enjoy command control and sound as much as anyone. I've had virtually no issues with my modern Marklin equipment, most of which I purchased new. If Lionel had the same quality control I'd be buying new trains from them. I just have no faith that they will show up without serious issues, or that I will be able to repair them 4-5 years down the road!

[@jbatman5092]

No apology needed, Zach! Well done to create a forum for us all. As you can see, you're not the only one left hung out to dry by Lionel. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us!

[@carlmiles8655]

Zack Good going there speak your mind nothing is more worse than spending our hard earned money and receiving a model train that dosent perform as intended its not to be negative or bash anyones favorite manufacturer the trains we purchase should perform stellar out of the box I LOVE PEOPLE WHO LOVE TRAINS NO MATTER WHAT SCALE SALUTE TO YOU ZACK ;-)

[@gusshadleythelunaticfromar7125]

UNBELIEVABLE,, I got a C&O freight set, it had a wiring issue I got Big Otis to rewire it, lost the sound, aside from that I run it like it. I was miffed at 400 buck 2000 I would be livid.

[@corbinoreilly194]

Great video. I have a LionChief Plus 2.0 GG1 that is with Lionel right now because all the sounds quit on it. Last week my LionChief Area 51 ET44 quit altogether. Put it on the track, apply power and the Z-1000 circuit breaker trips. Going to give Lionel a call about that one next week. Purchased it last August.

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

I’m sorry to hear that. Hopefully they get both engines taken care of real quick for you. The little experience I’ve had with customer service from the repair center has been pretty decent. I’m sure they get an ear full everyday..

[@mslickstrains]

This is a sad video Zac. Nobody likes to have issues with their trains. Makes me nervous with the Lionel engines I have on pre order

[@monarchco]

I have 3 comments: 1) I don't know how the youtube algorithm landed me here. 2) I'm glad I do N scale. You can pretty much purchase any new engine you want, and expect it to just work, if DC or DCC. I don't know anything about O gauge, but it seems that different manufacturers have different control methods in O gauge, while N scale, and of course HO run off relatively standardized DCC control. It could also have to do with the refinement in N scale over the decades. Kato is of course the gold standard for motors, but it seems everyone is striving to compete with them. And for controllers, pretty much every company with very few exception uses either digitrax DCC boards or ESU boards inside their engines. 3) In your first pan over the room you showed a corner of the room with clouds up in the sky above the track. I thought this was really cool, and something that I don't think I've ever seen in N scale. I may try to replicate this for N scale. I think that could be cool. A manufacturer has a system for thunderstorms that includes LED light strips, and sticking those inside the clouds could be cool. Thanks for the idea!

[@marcsoscaletrains]

You definitely share our frustrations. I'm going through similar situations. Its terrible and even more frustrating that they don't have a voice out there letting us know how they are trying to improve these frustrating situations. Thanks for posting.

[@Broncort1]

Every Lionel Legacy steam engine I buy new has an issue right out of the box. Just picked up my Blue Goose 4-8-4 and the headlight wasn’t working. On further review, the black wire was pulled off the headlight and blew the LED. They don’t even run these things after they’re built to see if everything works!

[@markhellman-pn3hn]

i have an O-scale MTH NYC R-12 subway set (used) ... shortly after i bought it, MTH went out of business ... parts are SUPER RARE now, & it took me FOREVER to get what i wanted !! ...but it was worth it - i get non stop compliments when its on the track !!

[@billharvey9836]

Zach Santa FE never had the DD35 only UNION PACIFIC but it looks great in the Santa FE colors

[@traderalex1]

Just discovered your channel. Discouraging, from the standpoint I worry now of troubles yet to come. I will never buy a pre-owned loco, again. I have a Lionel BNSF SD70Mac, believe circa 199 catalog, seemingly new in box. Same issue you reported, activated sound, and loco would halt. Front motor mount constantly coming loose. Been to authorized Lionel repair, twice. Motor comes loose hauling anything longer than ten cars. May use loctite to hold down mount, if problem persists. Second issue, I have a lot of late 1990's early 2000's Lionel hopper cars. A lot of trucks need replacement-style of truck in which there is a center post needed for the mounting screw, for the right position on the rail car. The latest replacement Lionel trucks still have that center post, they no longer tap and thread that post....I will need to try to manually drill and tap, myself. Insane...why leave the post on the truck design but not tap it so that owners of older rolling stock can easily use it?

[@geraldmosley2195]

Hey, Zach I justed watched your cool video about issues with these train manufacturers and I ran across some of the same issues, and for us in California we can't get track from Menards, meaning they won't ship to us because it is labeled a get this! A CANCER CAUSING item. I think this is B.S. 😮 then I have purchased buildings and they were UNGLUED and fell apart or the gears was broken. Love your patience while explaining your experiences. Can you leave a link to some of the repair shops you work with. 🤔

[@itsskaii7315]

This man is a legend. Using the platform for what its here for. To fun and to have voice. Lionel and mth take notes or were all switching to HO.

[@kidamere2408]

You know they.have the same issues

[@H.O.Scalemodeler4501]

Come to the dark side! 😂

[@eal8645]

@@kidamere2408Stay away from BLI.

[@carlmiles8655]

Thats why Zack I love ordering my own parts and do my own repairs like I said its stress free very enjoyable

[@timothymaroney2121]

I've been very lucky with my lionel trains so far. But the Quality control at lionel needs a lot of help. Small things so me. And as much as the want for this things they need to do better .

[@joecarlson6428]

It is sad that new out of the box locomotives have so many critical defects. I have a 4x8 layout. I have one command locomotive, a MTH Imperial RK Santa Fe 4-8-4. Almost everything else is postwar. The layout is tubular track and O22 switches.

[@RD-qb7sd]

Great content. I love to hear honest opinions.

[@daivdwalker2374]

Also it sucks you've had badluck I'm just getting back into the hobby I have a SD70 and a sd90 BNSF AND Canadian National army addition gunna be building a new layout cause we recently moved otherwise i was always postwar Era but like you I wanted the fancy engines now lol

[@hikingmansteve]

Hey Zach,. thanks for the very informative video. It makes me appreciate all of my older Lionel that much more. SR

[@bethanythedford9226]

Zach, i’d like to say i’m so glad i found this channel, it seems like when we buy trains from manufacturers, it fails as soon as it’s out of the box, i can speak from experience, the first train i got had a number of issues, cars derailed, wheels came off and was n scale rather than ho scale, not that n scale is bad or anything, heck i’m considering ading an n scale narrow gauge layout to my standard gauge ho scale one, i bought said train on amazon and the listing said ho scale but i got ripped off, another thing i hate is those stupid plastic wheel sets! Do these companies not realize the track’s basically a giant four to eight foot battery plugged in to a power source? Hmmm i guess not, so i’m building everything out of wood and some motors i have arround my house

[@MrDanielmarlowe]

MTH is better as far as repairs in my experience. Most of my Lionel’s have had issues.. a few MTH as well. Lionel’s customer service is good now and MTH is if you’re dealer is holding on to parts..

[@garyruark9506]

Are you using Lionel ZWs to operate the electronic engines? I would use Z4000s. The ZW doesn't have close tolerances for electronics. I think Lionel engines may like steel track too. MTH Realtrax is nickel silver. After 20 years and a million miles my MTH premier Pennsylvania K4 started acting up. It was losing power intermittently. It needed a new tether. Mike fixed it. It's a proto 2 5 volt engine but it has 2 batteries. Really unusal. The batteries have never been replaced and they tested good. MTH has built some dogs over the years. I have 4 old MTH railking diesel engines with metal casting desease. The white metal is falling apart and there is no way to fix it but at least I have proto 2 diesel parts. I've already used a couple of the smoke units 1 MUX board in other engines. I have 3 proto 2 5 volt steam engines that failed. 2 of them were favorites and I miss them. I don't buy any proto 2 5 volt now except maybe a diesel. I've never had a diesel fail and I think maybe they run cooler because their bodies are plastic and they tend to have more air space around the boards. I will buy Proto 2 3 volt. You know how to determine what an engine is? Get the MTH part number. You know 20-????-? Then go to MTH parts sight and search that number for parts and it will probably find it. It will state what version of Proto it is. I spent a lot of time on proto 2.5 volt trying to determine what fails on the board. There is a purple capacitor on the board next to like 3 other capacitors. I noticed that this capacitor swells up on some engines. The top of it isn't flat anymore. It has a crown to it. I have replaced them with success. It isn't easy to do but I have a procedure to do it. You have to replace it before it fails because once it fails it takes out other board components.

[@northpennvalleysteamrailroad]

Hey CountryBunker’s Trains! Have a great weekend 😊

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

👋 You as well!! Thank you!

[@eddiewillers8379]

Honestly I prefer 2000 and before years for Lionel trains they were just better quality and the post war many times was manufactured up North by Union workers. you will not get that quality today while it's being fabricated overseas

[@southshoreoscale1983]

Thanks for this video! I had no idea Lionel still did warranty repairs to the Cab 2 and Legacy base. Sent mine off a few weeks ago and got it back with a new brake wheel and key pad. Almost ordered a new Base 3, but thanks to you I didn't have to. You saved me a ton and I can't thank you enough!

[@simonetaormina7080]

China has us by the short ones, everything is crap out of the box. Been doing this hobby since 6 years old no joke. I can’t believe what comes out of the box. I have modeled all three scales. Even in the smaller scales many problems with newer stuff.

[@steveashcraft718]

I returned a scale Polar Express passenger car that had issues. It was damaged at the factory not in shipping. I'm not buying Lionel anymore and if I can will switch to H O.

[@charlesbrown959]

MTH has done more for model trains than electricity. Just consider they have every roadname you can spell. I don't have any Lionel trains.

[@darrenhenricks5472]

Was thinking of getting some lionel engines I think I’ll stick with MTH I never have problems and if I do I usually can fix it

[@BK-oo1bl]

It’s all about how much money can be made not quality. I refuse to spend $2000 on a steam engine and then have high chance of not working properly when it shows up. Don’t get me wrong they are still awesome to run

[@hpelisr]

What is coal extension's? Clearly a difference in the way the book presents the ad, One ad with the word coal and one not with the word coal. Sounds like confusion to what extension's means? Yes Lionel should clear the issue.

[@eddiewillers8379]

Perhaps if enough hobbyists get together and complain to Lionel they can start manufacturing here in the United States again intead of being greedy and charging twice as much for junk!!!

[@brianbright7501]

Just to take up for the manufacturers a bit, we are asking the trains to do more and more and more, it is not like the old days with Lionel made a train that looked similar to a train and the sound was ball bearings in the tender rolling around. So yes quality control needs to be better on some things, but I think we expect a lot as well. That being said so happy we get more and more model railroaders to keep the hobby alive.

[@johnchase7667]

You are not supposed to have to work on the new high tech engines and yes if you do try and work on them while they are under warranty you do void the warranty. The new hobby is not like the old hobby where we had to be good at working on them. You are so right that 2000 dollar hobby equipment should work right every time.

[@walteranderson5090]

Love your stuff Country Bunker. Heck even the smoke unit in my refrigerated box car quit. Just one more item that has to get taken care of 😡

[@devenfoxx3647]

Please let me know how you open the top just to make sure the screws are tighten or are they supposed to be a little loose up and down? RBP trains has an example of the gap and this looks similar to MTH class A tooling

[@corntater5848]

I'm with you on the beef with lionel I purchased a lionel american flyer polar express set test ran the set to make sure everything worked put it up than got it ready for Christmas Tree noticed small screws in the stir Foam cradle all the truck screws were loose and 2 were out so I got out the lock tight and fixed all of them all I can say is glad it was not on the track when they came out the quality controll at lionel needs to be addressed not over looked you are Wright in your opinion in my book

[@markcopeland4344]

Could you have some of the new Lionel stuff coming from VietNam?

[@daivdwalker2374]

Be interested 2 find out with other train enthusiasts like Eric's Trains with the hundreds of engines he owns how many problems he's had too?

[@avsavannahvalleyrailroad9479]

I went through all of this years back not nice, and they do not care even on old new stock warped in the box no warrantee

[@thebachboyimtoolazytoedit2825]

Wait a moment the more I look at this one shot the more I notice you have Jersey Central baby noses man you're cool

[@August-e5h]

Giving me hell yeah

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

HELL YEAH!! 🍺 LOL

[@scotthubbard973]

Zac who did you get that long elevated trestle from ? and how much roughly was it"?