Repertoire: Haydn's Earth-Shattering Op. 20 String Quartets

[@antoineduchamp4931]

David you have secured your place in heaven in my view for extolling the unimaginable virtues of the Haydn quartets, especially the Op. 20 ones...also your crusade for the Haydn symphonies..... huge respect and thanks from your best fan in the UK

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you.

[@simonballard6413]

My favourite is Opus 20 no 5 also! That extraordinary coda of the first movement that gets itself briefly into G flat (F#) minor is absolutely mesmerising!

[@denbigh51]

Of all the greats, for some unknown reason, Haydn remains the most under valued !

[@cappycapuzi1716]

Run, don't walk to get this set. The 10 minute slow movement of the G minor is also amazing. These Haydn string quartet slow movements are beginning to astound me.

[@MegaVicar]

Haydn is surely my favorite pre-20th century composer. Your book was enlightening and adds to my enjoyment of his music. The same is true of your books on Sibelius and DSCH. I’ve been reading ClassicsToday for 20 years; thanks for adding to my enjoyment of classical music.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank YOU for your kind comments and support over the years. It's such a pleasure that we can all share our love of great music in so many ways, especially now.

[@Osakapete]

Haydn's quartets are my favourite body of work in all of music. There is so much in them. I believe that Haydn was actually the father of modern music, he was the greatest innovator of all. Beethoven gets far too much credit for things that he simply took from Haydn. It all starts with Haydn in my mind. Even his earliest works are wildly creative. Thanks so much David for what you have done over the years in promoting the greatness of Haydn, I just wish more people understood it,

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You and me both!

[@JB-dm5cp]

I don’t know what it is with Haydn, but I find all of his music beautiful and fascinating, really never a dull moment. Thank you for the video and the recommendation!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@chutton988]

I have had the Angeles cycle since its release but the Auryn quartet certainly sounds wonderful. Haydn became something of a musical patron saint to my father and I back in the day. For that I remain deeply grateful.

[@flexusmaximus4701]

Another great episode. Thank you. I have begun to explore more of papa Haydn beyond the symphonies. I think Haydn produced so much, its daunting to dive into, separating the pretty from the great. Paul G

[@episodesglow]

Seven Last Words of Christ for string quartet was one of my more recent Haydn discoveries, it absolutely blew me away!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, I'd like to do a talk on that remarkable work.

[@episodesglow]

@@elaineblackhurst1509 Hi, I am familiar with the orchestral and choral version and just last year heard the version for piano, I was unaware that it was Haydn's own and assumed it was a transcription by someone else as seems to be popular with big works. It was played by Alexei Lubimov on a type of piano I'd never heard before and didn't find its sound that satisfactory. There is one performance on modern piano I have been meaning to hear.

[@frgraybean]

I’ve always loved the Haydn Quartets (along with the Mozart “Haydn” quartets, his best). They are my favorites...even more beloved to me than the Beethoven quartets. My shelves are sagging but I will look for these Tacet recordings.

[@vinylarchaeologist]

I became aware of your videos through a post on a classical forum thread. I am very appreciative of you doing this-this is already a great series and I am very much looking forward to the rest. Subscribed! Keep up the good work and take care. Greetings from Berlin.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks very much. I will do my best!

[@rixtafford]

Dave, I got your Haydn book from the Toronto Public Library (sorry, I didn’t buy it) and I have enjoyed it very much. You extol Haydn’s musical genius very well. One of the CDs is missing from my copy but I have hunted them up on Spotify. I think one thing keeping people from delving into Haydn’s work is the sheer enormity of it. Where do you start? And the standard is so high throughout his work. We’ll, your book is a good start.

[@francoisjoubert6867]

My most favorite reviewers: Hurwitz and Steane.

[@bernardohanlon3498]

David - greeting from the Penal Colonies. Again, thanks for this wonderful survey of the Sun Quartets and your espousal of them per se. I have the following in my collection: Tatrai (great performances in dreadful sound); Mosaiques (I am not a member of the Period Practice Taliban but I love them); Doric; Kodaly (which is the one misfire in the series); Aeolian and the Hagen Quartet (which is not particularly distinguished if you ask me). I will look into your nominations. Thanks again, B

[@fulltongrace7899]

Curious to know why you called the Kodaly Haydn a “misfire.” I have many of theirHaydn quartet recordings and I love their sound. I am living in Queensland Australia.

[@bernardohanlon3498]

@@fulltongrace7899 Hi Fulton - greetings from Victoria. To my ears, the Kodaly Quartet sound like a string orchestra in the Sun Quartets. Best wishes, B

[@fulltongrace7899]

@@bernardohanlon3498 👋thank you for your feedback. I noticed Kodaly records in a church which may give them a fuller bloom orchestral timbral. I confess I haven’t explored much with other string quartets in Haydn, except that I have the op. 76 string quartets by the Takács string quartet and I prefer the Kodaly’s recorded sound to theirs. 🙏

[@stuartclarke4683]

Fantastic! Desert Island Disc stuff! Thank you! I really like it when you play excerpts to illustrate your points. Can you do more of that please?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

To the extent I can get copyright clearance, I will do my best, but it's not always possible, annoyingly. If enough people subscribe I may eventually have the clout to force the holdout labels to give permission.

[@stuartclarke4683]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Let's hope they do. Can't really understand why record companies don't think it's in their interest; after all, they allow Amazon to offer samples before a download purchase.

[@julianl2088]

Thank you and waiting for your take on his Opus 76 (and others) too!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sure thing!

[@Vilebrequin69]

@@DavesClassicalGuide oh! Yes, please!

[@carlconnor5173]

The image of that CD cover is distressing. Like you often say, what were they thinking? I must say, I wouldn’t have cared to delve into Haydn were it not for you, David. I’m eager to check these Quartets out.

[@ftumschk]

I didn't know that the Auryn Quartett had recorded a Haydn cycle. As I enjoyed their Beethoven and Schubert surveys so much, I may have to seek it out.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They are a splendid group, no doubt about it.

[@carteri6296]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I finally got converted to Auryn’s Haydn surveys after listening to the op. 50 set, sonics are terrific. My favourite for op. 20 is the Kocian on Orfeo (hate the Hagens) although the 3rd movement of op. 20 #3 is not the right one on the disc, Orfeo has screwed up.

[@abrain]

Given your comments on Norrington/ Stuttgart, what are your thoughts on the Apponyi Qt OP.33

[@beetroothoven1495]

However, it is also disputed how much impact Joseph Haydn alone had on Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart in string ensemble works. Euna Na points out by examining works composed by Michael Haydn in 1773 ( MH 187, MH 188, MH 189 ), that in string ensemble works, Mozart shares far more linguistic elements such as chromatic harmony and theatrical gestures with Michael Haydn; "Wolfgang seems to have been influenced earlier and more directly by Michael than by Joseph".[35] Striking examples of linguistic similarity are found in the slow movements of Michael's MH 367 and Mozart's K. 465, for example. Professor David Wyn Jones at the Cardiff University School of Music states that "in Salzburg, if not throughout his life, Mozart was writing in a lingua franca and many of the features of that language are to be found in Michael Haydn too".[36] (wikipedia)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, actually, it is not disputed. The above is simply generic nonsense.

[@twigfarm4229]

Hi Dave! Do you (or anyone else) have a preferred/recommended order for listening to this series of quartets? As always, thank you.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't. Do it however you like it.

[@twigfarm4229]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Will do. Thank you!

[@jakobpetropoulos8850]

Eargasm

[@davekeyes5589]

Extraordinary is a horribly overused word these days, but that is what Opus 20 is.

[@ericjiang7801]

Interesting. I recently finished rereading Rosen's "The Classical Style", and he seems to largely dismiss the op. 20 quartets as transitional, immature works, as opposed to the op 33 which really exemplifies the mature classical style (for him). Any comments on this perspective (and thoughts on op 33 overall)?

[@stephenkeen2404]

I'm in the same boat; I didn't think I needed to go back beyond the op. 33 (which are amazing).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@stephenkeen2404 Well, Tovey opted for Op, 20 as the advent of the mature classical style, and I agree with him, but I don't think there's a need to choose. It depends on how you define your terms and Op. 33 is amazing in a wholly different way--I would say they are just as important for what they do, which is introduce humor as an actual structure principle--an amazing feat.

[@bartolo498]

I think dismissal is to strong an expression but Rosen does stress the importance of op.33. However, as Dave points out the op.20 are "romantic" in some sense, they are mostly on a much larger scale than the terse and "comical" op.33 and more overtly expressive as in the two minor mode quartets or the recitative-like slow movement of op.20#2 or the variations in #4, surely one of Haydn's great variation movements. I'd also say that opp. 9 and 17 are very underrated pieces. While they cannot reach op.20 and most of the later ones they are by no means immature and their main fault is dominance of the first violin and a certain stiffness in some movements. (There are some variations in them I find a bit "autopilot" with standard diminutions, a bit like Handel's keyboard arias + variations) But this is mostly nitpicking and there is a lot of great music in them, e.g. again both minor mode quartets (esp. op.9#4), some expressive slow movements (with again a recitative in op.17#5) and brilliant "comic" masterpieces like 17#6.

[@ThreadBomb]

I don't understand how some people can dismiss a composer's work without even giving it a hearing. Especially considering that all Haydn's work is, at the very least, well made and enjoyable.

[@davidhayden5602]

You know Dave, when I first got into great music, I avoided classical string quartets, only enjoying Mozart's: hunt and dissonance. I always hated the minuets. Weak and ineffectual. Not just my opinion, when cpe backs patron( believe his name was Joseph Hiller, (the one who commissioned bachs great hamberg symphonies) stated that he didn't want cpe to minuets because they were like beauty patches on a mans face. However, I started listening more to the later quartets, I believe opus 60, minuets are still there only more sophisticated. Also, wanted to comment about your Brahms 2nd sym. I always considered it the weakest and inconsequential of the three. I remember a quote from a critic of Ralph Vaughn Williams 4th sym, " a cow looking over a fence." That's Brahms 2nd.