Replacing Noisy Hydraulic Lifters in a Kohler Engine Part 1

Free Craftsman LT 1750 (CV17.5 Kohler) runs great when warm, but first 5 minutes cold it makes a loud ticking noise. Bought some used lifters off another Kohler CV engine, hoping this does the trick. Lifter tool is from Performance-Tool, model W84004. I have no affiliation or make any revenue from the link, just want to share good tools when I come across them.
www.amazon.com/Performance-To...

[@BillGoudy]

Looks good... Craig... It will be nice to see part 2!! ;-)

[@RustyGlovebox]

Nice work on swapping the lifters out

[@garycholder]

I don't know about this particular engine, but on a Kohler Command 22 HP V Twin engine, you do not have to remove the heads to replace the lifters. All you need to do is remove the valve covers, rockers, pushrods, then you can pull the lifters out with a mechanic's magnet (or this special lifter tool). I just did this on my Exmark zero turn mower. You may try this before going to all this trouble.

[@trevorschick1730]

Just tried your magnet trick with a 17.5 with the cylinder head still on and it worked perfectly. So glad I read this comment. Saved me time and money!

[@nickdipascal8124]

Nice to hear from you ...take care !!

[@CraigArndt]

Thanks, you too!

[@garrykrause2375]

MANNN GREAT JOB--YOU JUST TAUGHT ME HOW TO DO MY MOWER-JUST ABOUT THE SAME ENGINE AS YOURS....

[@NormanMcGregor]

That is Amazingly clean for it age.

[@CraigArndt]

Hi Norman, it really is. I've taken the heads off a bunch of tractors and the insides are usually brown, oil stained and show years of use. Hope you're doing well.

[@not2fast4u2c]

I Like that lifter tool ..My brain is designing a mod to have a socket thing on it to slide in and tighten the nut...Not too much wear on the lifter bottoms ..Failed lifters are usually something inside ....It would make a good short video on taking a lifter apart ..I have done it on an old oil sledged car engine and put them back in and the engine ran fine after all the work ..Nice looking engine for 20 years old

[@CraigArndt]

Oh thanks for reminding me, I was supposed to put a link of where I got that tool. I may take these apart, that's a good idea. Saw it done a month ago on KZbin, but I'd like to see what makes it tick.. lol

[@edr1234er]

I thought the something, making a slid tool to slid down and tighten the expander on the lifter?

[@NoPeoblem389X]

I wanted to give a little advice when replacing hydraulic lifters always put them in oil and completely cover them you will notice there will be bubbles this is oil going into the galley and when they are compressed oil will go into the push rods providing oil for your rockers. What happens is if they are not full of oil on start up you stand a chance of the lifter not pumping up causing a miss or lifter noise. I am not wanting to butt in I am just sharing a little bit of my 45 years of experience to try and help. With Respect. RR

[@CraigArndt]

Appreciate it Raymond, I am always learning.

[@CSERepair]

Just my cents , could be reading it wrong but I was told for hydraulic lifters , before re installing they have to be bled from the oil or they would bend a push rod immediately ?

[@miker8368]

Excellent video...I have a Kohler Command CV460 that's got the same lifter noise as heard in your video. Did you state that you installed used lifters that your purchased from EBAY, or were they purchased new? Also, before installing them did you only coat them in oil? I've read where purging them prior to installation is not necessary. Did you coat the lifter bottoms with cam lube, or just the synthetic oil that you're running? Great tool for removing the lifters, as well. I've heard of people removing the lifters with a telescopic magnet, as well...although, I don't know if that would do the trick. Anyway, your video is the only one I've seen dealing with lifter removal...nice job!

[@CraigArndt]

Thanks, The lifters I bought were used, I have another video in Part 2 where I show they were full of water. I wound up taking them apart and cleaning them and found a lot of water. Maybe they were in a parts washer or something, but I'm glad I took those ebay ones apart. I only coated with synthetic oil, I didn't have cam lube around and really, as long as its oiled its fine. I didn't fill them though, let them pressurize dry, wanted to see how long that took and they pumped up within a minute or so. I just started it after sitting 2 weeks, no ticking.

[@miker8368]

@@CraigArndt Nice job & thanks for the informative video!

[@edr1234er]

Say on those hydrolleak Lifters what is the torque spec's! On that kohler engen?

[@Neighborhoodgo2guy]

Craig, I'm working on a ezmark with a Kohler CV13T engine. The homeowners said it used to be easier to start, it only has a pull cord. The CV engines have only hydraulic lifters and thus don't have clearance to adjust the valves. I thought maybe the exhaust was out of it's correct number making it harder to start? Do you have any ideas that could be helpful? Thanks in advance.

[@CraigArndt]

You don't have to worry about the valves, since this engine is hydraulically operated. Hard to start can be a head gasket, lack of general maintenance or just a dirty carburetor. I would start by determining the basics. Does it have good compression? Does it have good spark? When it runs, does it surge or does it just not start at all? Once you identify that, it will point you to where the problem is. Just let me know if you have questions I'm happy to help.

[@Neighborhoodgo2guy]

I appreciate the response, I should've clarified better that it's difficult to start, because the pull cord is hard to pull. I thought maybe the exhaust valves, but like you stated the hydraulic valves don't allow for adjusting, So now I'm thinking it could be the flywheel key being slightly sheared. Thanks again.

[@ZippoVarga]

Nice one Craig! Zip~

[@miker8368]

Craig..finally finished installing new lifters in my Kohler Command. I'm experiencing a supremely slow cranking engine with a NO start. Any ideas other than the battery? It ran fine ( other than lifter noise ) prior to the lifter installation.

[@CraigArndt]

I've had stuff like this happen, its always something small. First- battery needs 12.6 volts. If it's less it needs a charge. 2nd, if battery good...Take the plugs out, use a socket or turn flywheel by hand and listen. See if you hear anything, should just be compression. If you feel anything weird while turning it, take the heads off, make sure your rods are where they should be... on the rockers. 3rd- I'd re-check a feeler gauge on the intake and exhaust valve.. because that can be the cause of a whole bunch of issues. Hope this helps, just try to re-trace the steps. And taking apart is a lot faster once you have done it a few times... haha. Been there!

[@miker8368]

@@CraigArndt Thanks, Craig...everything is alright, now. The battery was at 12.9 volts, but still barely cranking. I removed the spark plug and turned the flywheel to TDC on the compression stroke. Replaced the spark plug and it fired, immediately. The lifters made noise for about 7 minutes, but then quieted. I let it set a day, then restarted. The lifters sounded pretty darn good...no tapping. Thanks for the video...it helped, immensely. This was my maiden voyage with replacing lifters, so I was just a tad on the uneasy side doing the job.

[@ZachLovesFord]

Very weird you had a crease mark on both of the lifters. When I did mine I only had a crease wear mark on the exhaust lifter and not the intake lifter. I assumed the crease wear mark only on the exhaust lifter to be the compression release but I guess not, weird.

[@jacobtomb4856]

I have the same engine and noticed these lifters have hole on them on the side Does this need to line up with the holes where they go in that sleeve to let oil flow? You made no mention of that and I’m curious and trying to find that before I crank it up

[@CraigArndt]

No, the hole on the side doesn’t line up to another corresponding hole, that’d be just about impossible to line up. There’s an oil galley inside the engine to pressurize the lifter. Just use assembly lube or synthetic oil before you put the lifter in. Should pressurize on it’s own and shouldn’t need to be prefilled with oil.

[@jacobtomb4856]

@@CraigArndt thank you the manual just stated it should be placed in the orientation in which it was removed.... who remembers that ?! Lol

[@jeremy888ferris7]

in case you see this, i have a twin cylinder kohler command 20 that won't start, battery sounds like dying (but its good) - I can usually get it to start by pouring gas in air intake (but still cranks poorly) I thought valves might be out of adjustment, but when I took the valve covers off there's no set screw and the plate that contacts the valve is curved so it doesn't look like the valves are adjustable, finally i see a video with yours in it, that looks like mine, apparently unadjustable valves with hydraulic lifters. So I'm stuck - any ideas why it may start so hard?

[@CraigArndt]

There’s a number of things that it could be. I’d load test the battery, get a cheap tester if you don’t have one. Had lots of batteries I thought were good, they weren’t. If the battery is bad, it won’t have power to turn the starter or enough to produce a hot spark. If it tested out good and you suspect valves I’d look at the push rods make sure one isn’t bent.

[@jharps8012]

Kinda playing with fire not looking at you cam as well! I had the same tic and luckily I went further in a found a wiped out lobe! Weird part was it was only one lobe on the number 2 cylinder exhaust side. This was on a kohler 27 hp

[@CraigArndt]

It was the lifters, if it was the cam the tick wouldn't go away, it would be present all the time. This tended to get quieter after the lifters filled and then totally disappear within 5 minutes. The other issue these engines have, is poorly manufactured oil passages in the block to fill those lifters. Had that on a Cub 1515, which I had fixed under warranty, but in that case the lifters couldn't get enough oil to fill properly. A new short block fixed that. Thanks for checking the video out. Subscribe if you like the content.

[@sirkorndogg6593]

yes the iron axle swap is 100000% worth the $50 bucks. I have the same tractor lt4200.

[@Spazin0ut]

Nice video I have a cv30s that does the same thing. Do u know if the lifters are the same?

[@CraigArndt]

I know the lifters are the same for vertical and horizontal shaft Kohlers up to 23 or 24 HP, but not sure if they cross all models. Uploaded part 2 today. I think cleaning the lifters should be tried first. If they have any gunk in them, they'll have a hard time pressurizing.

[@Spazin0ut]

Ok thanks man.

[@WILSON.1]

Is top dead center necessary if you put it back exactly as it was taken apart and preload the lifters?

[@CraigArndt]

TDC is how it’s stated in the service manual, with them loose to adjust.

[@WILSON.1]

@@CraigArndt Thanks

[@jhuerta9578]

Other tool that works great is a telescoping magnet

[@rayaratkon1654]

Hi, it's a good video! How to reset the valve on this engine?

[@CraigArndt]

There isn't any valve adjustments on these Kohler Command engines, they use hydraulically actuated lifters, so no adjustments are made. It is a good idea to make sure the valves are properly lapped and free of carbon, but that should be it.

[@rayaratkon1654]

Thank you so much for your information it's helpful 😊

[@MitzvosGolem1]

Mine starts to click loud after 30 minutes full speed on my Vermeer stump grinder. I put Mobil 1 10-40 synthetic oil in it and it stopped .

[@CraigArndt]

Usually at operating temp you wouldn't get a lifter tick, since everything is warm and flowing... but, hydraulics work on flow, so a low viscosity oil like Mobil 1 may make things better. Frequent oil changes with Mobil 1.. and making sure the machine gets to operating temperature for a good period of time, helps.

[@MitzvosGolem1]

@@CraigArndt this happen s when hot and it's loud. Then stops.

[@jaysonjackson7272]

I thought I heard you say "NEW USED" lifter? On automotive engines with flat tappet lifters using a used lifter from a different bore has potential to chew the lobe off the camshaft. By the looks of the wear pattern on that exhaust lifter the cam is likely already damaged.

[@CraigArndt]

Yeah, I don't think any of that is at play here. The engine was in immaculate condition and the lifters I rebuilt were in great shape. They pumped up quickly, the tick stopped. The cam isn't damaged.

[@johndeeretractorguy.9855]

Lifter tool is nice. How long did you preload the new lifters?

[@CraigArndt]

They went in unloaded. Just assembly lube and they loaded themselves up within less than a minute.

[@glennlevesque6330]

You can always just take the lifter apart and clean them and put it back together.

[@miketodd8895]

If the lifter is worn like that then the cam is to works the same way with a car engine

[@anthonycolombaro6565]

How do you adjust the rocker arms

[@CraigArndt]

The lifters are hydraulic so there is no adjustment.

[@anthonycolombaro6565]

@@CraigArndt thanks wasn't sure

[@philliphall5198]

They have to have the oil changed regularly and no if’s or butts about it Poor maintenance will cause lifter failure, might try some mmo

[@Z-Ack]

So it doesnt make a difference to use the joy jelly the new lifters came with or to fill em up with earl then i guess... dont have that fancy tool you got for it but got em out with needle nose and a pick.. guess gonna try to get em back in same way.. i odd though it doesnt matter whether you prime the tensioners before putting em in .. i just got done putting some in on my truck and had all kinds of warnings for those and they looked exactly the same as the ones in the kohler except triple the size.. had to get a cup of earl and squeeze the things together so hard if id a farted i woulda seen breakfast again... and once you got em primed they would not squeeze any more at all, couldnt get a toe hair out of em were so tight with oil.. but timing belt tensioners gotta be stout i guess.. but hey thanks for the video there bud.. you got like a mustie1 thing going on for ya.. way you talk to the camera.. if youve never watched any of his videos than you gotta be his long lost brother or something... mustie looks more like an albino squirrel when he sports his mutton chops mustache combo.. ha!

[@AmberOliver-xx3fx]

A 18 hp Kohler lawn mower

[@charlesflaco7976]

You don't even need that tool the valves come out easy with your finger or a magnet

[@CraigArndt]

You're right, live and learn. And I will probably forget next time one rolls into my garage. :-)

[@sirkorndogg6593]

camshaft is worn out....lifters are supposed to SPIN via the camshaft lobe is NOT flat ...but has a slight angle on it to induce lifter SPIN creating a circle pattern on the lifter.OR lifters are worn out as THEY are NOT flat but "crowned" to induce spin. Different models different ways.

[@pinkhead6857890]

Nerd, just place some old pushrods on those lifters and give em a smack! Yer jerb is to put asses in mower seats, not play mechanic and go pulling headings and cleaning piston's!

[@robertlay5108]

if the bottom side of lifters arnt worn out you can rebuild the lifters i did it a couple of times i rebuild these type of motors all the time i tell ya riden lawn mowers and small motors keep me swamp with work year round

[@CraigArndt]

Yes exactly. I did clean those but probably needed to soak in gasoline or kerosene to soften the carbon and gunk. I still have them to try on my next CV series engine.