The tap is broken. I'll try to remove the broken tab! #metal #cnc #lathe #fanuc #korea #work #job #cncmachine
Пікірлер: 3 100
@danielzunigagutierrez63002 жыл бұрын
I was supervising a new employee that broke a 5/8 tap on a $2500 stainless shaft. He asked me if I was going to fire him. I told him: think I'm stupid? Now you know how to break a tap, and you also learned what not to do to avoid breaking a tap; that is called experience. What do you think is going to happen if I hire a new guy with no experience?
@upward_onward2 жыл бұрын
Wise employer😁😁😁
@danielzunigagutierrez63002 жыл бұрын
@Neander Thal in part, you are correct. But probabilities to break a tap, lessen by about 70%. Remember: nothing Is absolute.
@iwaswrongabouteveryhthing2 жыл бұрын
Smart
@fz1000red2 жыл бұрын
That is the kind of reaction you see in a new employee who has worked for some shitty employers or supervisors in the past. He'll get over the past experiences after working under a boss that is more interested in facilitating the new troop's knowledge and training than throwing him under the bus for every screw up.
@robertthomas59062 жыл бұрын
I remember what happened when I did it. He said - why did I go and break it? I said - I didn't have anything better to do than to drill it out. That's exactly what I did for the next few hours.
@rob11132 жыл бұрын
I love the fact there’s a whole industry of tools that exist only to fix other broken tools mistakes
@aljosasinadinoski60322 жыл бұрын
Actually its used for machining parts, but it has other uses like this
@daleburrell62732 жыл бұрын
@@aljosasinadinoski6032 ...I can't see how THIS particular setup would be any good at actually MAKING anything- but if you are referring to the technique of "ElectroDischarge Machining", you're quite right.
@e.b75882 жыл бұрын
@@daleburrell6273 it can be uesed for making start holes in hardened steel for WireEDM
@MishkaBTS-kim2 жыл бұрын
P
@randytolle67062 жыл бұрын
My neighbor had a motorcycle with a broken dowel pin in the crankshaft. (Rotary valve Kawasaki.) A machine shop turned an EDM electrode to the exact diameter needed using a lathe and used EDM to cut the pin out to the depth shown on the print in the shop manual for the bike. The EDM cut it perfectly. This was about 1969.
@tonyfolsom14742 жыл бұрын
I haven't had lots of experiences with broken taps but I discovered something amazing during my first encounter. I broke a tap off in an aluminum supercharger. I called machine shop they refused to work on it. I researched and found out alum powder used to pickle veggies mixed with water and heated will dissolve ferrous metals like steel and iron but will not harm nonferrous metals like aluminum. I tried it and dissolved the tap completely for less than $10. Pretty interesting
@raymondzhao95572 жыл бұрын
interesting, I will try it in the future, thanks!
@mxnb_67302 жыл бұрын
Some1 like so i can come back to this some where in my life when i need it
@kaloosh26392 жыл бұрын
well done🌊
@POTGIETERDAVID2 жыл бұрын
That's pretty darn kwl
@doaSkid692 жыл бұрын
I won't lie I read this comment like whaaaat naaaaa Then searched it and wow that's a bloody brilliant way of doing it Lots of how too guides on KZbin to confirm what you say ! Makes me want to break a drill bit into some ally just to try it 😅🤷
@dewindoethdwl27982 жыл бұрын
My Grandfather was a toolmaker and had a set of taps that had a hole cored down the centre with a reverse thread. In the kit we’re these recovery tools, like a reverse thread bolt with a shoulder. You were to wind the recovery bit down into the central hole until the shoulder stopped it going any further. You then kept winding and the snapped part would back out. I think 1/4” was the smallest tap with a tiny recovery bit. He proudly boasted he’d won them as an apprentice, used them regularly and never blew a bit in 45yrs. Sometimes, seeing him work metals in his seventies it was wholly credible.😉
@fattyshtc2 жыл бұрын
That's the route I would of took personally.
@JohanDegraeveAanscharius2 жыл бұрын
That is exactly how it should be done, not smashing it into pieces. First a hole with the edm, the a reverse tap used to remove stuck broken bolts etc...
@coltraindontworryboutit99902 жыл бұрын
Obviously the two commenters have never worked in fab shops or machine shops. When a bit gets stuck like this in a solid steel part like this, you aren’t going to just reverse the tab and pull it on out. The steel will shrink and bind it up after it cools down. And other factors are at play as well
@JohanDegraeveAanscharius2 жыл бұрын
@@coltraindontworryboutit9990 It's M20: plenty place to edm a hole and use reverse tapped conical bit to unscrew it. The hole will shrink the tap's volume. Anyway, you are right that other factors play as well, but using a hammer and chisel are the last resort. He just was lucky not to damage the thread. This shows how you can make a hole in such hard metal using an Edm, but after the Edm, other tools exist. He had to use the Edm 3 times, normally you do this in 1 go with a recovery bit. Anyway,, the guy that breaks an M20 tap, was not using the right tool nor torque.
@rapidrrobert4333 Жыл бұрын
@@coltraindontworryboutit9990 One of the most difficult problems we come across.
@bigbob16992 жыл бұрын
Broken taps are why toolmakers and machinist drink .
@LordOfChaos.x2 жыл бұрын
Can confirm 😂
@DonnyDarko132 жыл бұрын
Man i Had that Broken Tap in a Roll of really hard castiron. It makes me sleepless 😴
@perceive81592 жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t know, I’ve never broken a tap😁😂
@LordOfChaos.x2 жыл бұрын
@@perceive8159 i am glad u didnt , hope it wont happen
@bigbob16992 жыл бұрын
@@perceive8159 1st yr apprentice or a form grinder ?
@Croft_Customs2 жыл бұрын
This takes me back. I was everyone’s favourite apprentice because I saved everyone’s work by getting out all the broken taps.
@phuckyoutube59272 жыл бұрын
@Jun Cali getting them stuck?
@weldingbilgin2 жыл бұрын
👏
@TomokosEnterprizeАй бұрын
You must be my twin at work, LOL.
@jodygwiinn1233Ай бұрын
Use helical tornado down use old junk carbidr tool grind relife shank and flood hell out of spin tool fast and helical down bout .001 at a time but helical dia of hole 5hen tap will blow out pick out rest watch when get towards end tap as let go will break tool and goug wall bit
@Nobody-Nowhere-USA Жыл бұрын
I so understand that sickening and sinking feeling you get when you break a tap off during one of the last operations of making an expensive part! So much easier to fix today then when I started working as a machinist!
@lukequigley121 Жыл бұрын
YES, In my days as in the deburring / finishing dept of a 40person shop w/ no edm they would always send the part to DEBURRING for me to get out and make like new..Retired now YEAH..
@BradM76592 ай бұрын
The worst feeling is getting a tap out of an expensive jnconel part, then immediately breaking off a defective tap in the hole. Back to EDM for the next few hours…
@TomokosEnterprizeАй бұрын
Yea but we are the few in the world that can extract them old school out in the bush.
@df71091Ай бұрын
I literally had just one tap left, measured that i need to go one milimeter deeper and that last bit made it break
@JimP2262 жыл бұрын
This is about the most expensive and technical way you could possibly do this job. Especially with a 20mm tap. My go to for tap removal was always TIG welding. I would create a puddle of metal as wide as I could make it without contacting the threads. Then keep building and building until I had nub protruding from the hole about 15mm. When done welding I would lube the hole with penetrating oil. Then grab the nub with a pipe wrench and back the tap out. Depending on the size of the tap, it would usually take about 10min start to finish. Worst case, it would break off again and I would have another go. Removed hundreds of broken bolts and taps this way. Very effective.
@keatmany2k5 Жыл бұрын
Can't weld to a tungsten carbide tap tho, hence why we use tungsten electrodes
@mikeydudek28853 ай бұрын
@@keatmany2k5I was wondering why you were going down the overkill route. At first I thought it was just for demonstration purposes, but I never considered that they were tungsten carbide taps, no wonder it broke.
@Yeakerr3 ай бұрын
Tig welding was my go to method
@bryantburns36642 ай бұрын
@mikeydudek2885 the tap in this video was not a tungsten carbide tap. It was a hss tap. The guy that posted that comment is a dumb fuck. Tig welding method is great
@thebigdustin2 жыл бұрын
That sounds like a very angry Geiger counter.
@cr125kid12 жыл бұрын
This has got to be the most interesting extraction process I've seen! Thank you!
@andyjohnson37902 жыл бұрын
I love that this super detailed and expensive looking machine for the fix is also brought with what looks like a sweet old hand me down wooden handle hammer.
@Shortsfilm11232 жыл бұрын
I am also a CNC-EDM machine operator in taiwan, and this is one of my masterpiece, I also can operate a surface grinding machine for it is very important to our job to prepare or shape an electrode used for the machining. Tapping or make a repair like that on the video are one of our job. I really missed it!
@jodygwiinn1233Ай бұрын
Hurco jurco made twain
@user-tq3dh4hn1nАй бұрын
来大陆cnc 放电🎉~大陆工厂多😅……你还可以去台湾公司当领导
@charlesdavis24062 жыл бұрын
I have been removing broken taps for 40 years without damage to the part. One employer bought an EDM machine before I came to work for them. After I showed them how to do it they sold the EDM machine. All you need is technique and about $400 in tools. Happy to teach anyone how it's done.
@charlesdavis24062 жыл бұрын
I never use a power to to remove the broken tap it's to time consuming to set up the X Y and Or X it only take about 1/2 hour to remove a tap as small as 3/8" up to 1" no matter what material it's in.
@fuzzfacelogic789Ай бұрын
I actually managed to do it twice using the tappy, tap, tap process.
@mycovoreАй бұрын
Tell us your secrets
@ronnymcfarland7775Ай бұрын
You’re an old pro!
@fredfred4086Ай бұрын
Make a video, put it on KZbin, earn money from it.👍
@beentheredonethatoriginals56732 жыл бұрын
The key to tapping stainless is more frequent reversing and backing out completely and removing all the debris. I learned to not use taps too many times on stainless, instead grab a new tap after 5 to 10 uses and move that used tap to your mild steel case. I still broke plenty in my line of work but always used another sharpened tap to remove the broken one. Saved a lot of time with these two practices.
@trillrifaxegrindor44112 жыл бұрын
if the tap has a shine or makes any noise,get it the hell out of the part....that "KINK" sound makes your asshole clench up😆
@KeithBair2 жыл бұрын
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 I worked at a automation shop running a manual mill, building custom robotic machines and was one of 4 machinists there. I was always into the more tedious work and thinking outside of the box. I got stuck with setting up compound angles with a vise inside a vise and trickier stuff like that. The most puckering job I did was drilling and tapping mount holes in some 300 series stainless gripper jaws. The holes were m1.6x0.35, freaking tiny. The guy who ran the wire edm quit and I was the only one willing to take his place. Taught myself to run the edm and honestly had a blast doing that. Crazy what can be done with a edm
@TheDennisZb2 жыл бұрын
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 that "oh f@ck" moment 😄
@aksourdough48902 жыл бұрын
I used to tap 4" bearing cap holes on an 18 ft forged and machined $500k crankshaft for 5000 hp diesel engine. Using radial drill press. Was paid about $8/hr (1979). Never broke a tap but was always nervous as hell. Bottoming tap out is very common way to break it.
@jasonw81242 жыл бұрын
Stainless is the damn devil
@MayanMercernary2 жыл бұрын
Wow! Dude. I didn't expect to actually stop whatever else I'm doing and just watch. Oddly satisfying.
@jamesdewer Жыл бұрын
Removing busted anything is an art as much as science. I learned many techniques while in the Navy. On an all steel ship. It made me an indispensable shop hand. Absolutely vital skill.
@dayofmone2 жыл бұрын
You could try applying adhesive plastic tape around the area, it should prevent the surrounding metal from being damaged by the process? That's how electric etching is done, you apply an adhesive plastic tape with cutouts in the shape of the etched mark.
@user-lm6lq8yc9p2 жыл бұрын
Try nail polish. 👍
@Mike-ff7ib2 жыл бұрын
Kapton tape is perfect. Its rated at 500deg F and would perfectly mask the area and the adhesive would not leave any gummy residue. It peels off perfectly.
@modevans35692 жыл бұрын
@@Mike-ff7ib knapton tape is amazing stuff
@curtis1332 жыл бұрын
I personally use zinc epoxy paint , it's tough to damage , slightly conductive but comes off with solvent later leaving no trace , tape sorta works but in a shop environment occasionally gets a crease or a bubble or a pocket under it and then the spot still gets damaged after so I tried various paints and epoxy paint meant for painting iron after welding or galvanized steel etc ended up working like it was made for the task
@bsimpson62042 жыл бұрын
The top of that part is a mess, it certainly wanted protecting by something, kapton tape sounds a good try for starters. I like the copper tube idea too to slice through the webs of the tap, that would be beautiful to see.
@DIYToPen2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the man with the machine, that does the thing.
@johnbrewer17682 жыл бұрын
That was so awesome!!! I've never seen or heard of that process before. Unbelievable!!!
@heyitsme1534 Жыл бұрын
I don’t use tap’s all the time but after 21 years of using them I can honestly say I have a love hate for them. As an electrician it’s very convenient to make your own hole when needed but sometimes I have to ask if it’s worth it because most of these taps are made like garbage. I had to tap a couple stainless cabinets before and every one day scepter the last I had an issue with. Now I let the young guys do it. When they mess up they give me that look but they know me. They know I’m not the one to freak out. I’m the one that makes them do the challenging work so they get experience and build confidence while applying their trade. And I never knew such a machine existed! Totally cool!
@marcusaguirre70322 жыл бұрын
We had an edm collecting dust no one wanted to "figure" it out. So I took the initiative. These things are worth their weight in gold. Holy smokes I can't even tell you how many parts I fixed over the years. Every shop should have one imo.
@Febloop2 жыл бұрын
Also a tool room.
@SarahandJim12 жыл бұрын
What is a tab? Also, twice the depth to the diameter of the "tap"
@williammccafferty85582 жыл бұрын
Edm I'd the thing you name it lol it can do it edm machining is still the top dog to hard materials wire eroding machines make taps lol dies all sorts yep it's an art form new a guy from wetland helicopters he used to run one total respect
@PhrozenCPU2 жыл бұрын
@@SarahandJim1 I kept noticing too. It is poorly transcribed... tab =tap
@ipick4fun272 жыл бұрын
It’s useful more than just fixing tools. Imagine drilling holes on harden parts. I have suppliers plugged the holes all day long. Makes some tough job much easier with the right tool.
@ColKorn19652 жыл бұрын
Any machinery that has a claw hammer in the tool kit is bound to be good
@Bassist58582 жыл бұрын
old school wood
@rhythm242able2 жыл бұрын
Who has a claw hammer in an engineering tool box, obviously proper technical work this
@andrewbeck8105Ай бұрын
I just learned what EDM machining is. Fascinating stuff!
@Potrvlb Жыл бұрын
Amazing. Simply blows my mind that men think about these tools in their heads and draw up plans then create them, build them. Fascinating and really fun to watch them in action.
@curtis1332 жыл бұрын
if you spray on a zinc laiden epoxy paint over the work area the outflow passes ( just plug the hole with your finger) you won't have any ugly pitting on top, just wipe it off with thinner after. Just try it ;) takes 2 extra minutes to do and makes the result look perfect for the client! That aside nicely executed!
@williamoliver65502 жыл бұрын
It just looks such a bad way of removing it! All that chipping bits out with a hammer and punch, marking and levering against the threads is bad practice. Could've got 10 broken taps out in that time with some nickel rods and a few bolts to weld on 🤔
@jodygwiinn1233Ай бұрын
Use castrol tap wax and grind drill bit offcenter will open hole little larger help keep tap from blowing but only do with bigger size taps engineers say tap will pull and could risk life but 33 years never saw anything happen unless eyebolt was 80 years old and bent alwYs hide when osha come thru along with nylon straps only used for flipping parts over osha see snag and have scrap out why usa get n ass kicked by china
@niczoom2 жыл бұрын
Great work! I learnt something new today and have now read up a bit on EDM machines, thanks for the video.
@72151 Жыл бұрын
Beautiful workmanship
@TomokosEnterprizeАй бұрын
I was the one they called for troubles like this. No fancy equip, just me and a lot of experience to bail them out. This likely took the same amount of time and resorses a torch, hand drill and purpose ground chisels to do the same job but WAY cheaper/less expensive $
@Silky_boi2 жыл бұрын
This was such an interesting video, I never knew of such a trade. Excellent and clean work!
@georglimiux6772 жыл бұрын
Cool little EDM machine. Could almost smell the burning oil even after nearly 40 years of being away from them.
@birkettaustin2 жыл бұрын
for someone with no clue what that machine does, it was fascinating and entertaining. thanks for sharing
@fullcirclerepair2655 Жыл бұрын
As a retired Aerospace prototype Machinist, nice job I love the portable EDM
@andrewmawson68972 жыл бұрын
When I'm EDM'ing broken taps I use a thin wall copper or brass tube as an electrode of a suitable diameter that it can cut all the webs at once. No chiselling necessary !
@theoldbigmoose2 жыл бұрын
Plus get the dielectric/electrolyte right to the bottom to flush the crud out of a deep hole
@palleppalsson2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant
@SmilingDevil2 жыл бұрын
That thought crossed my mind, Why use a solid Rod, if all You want is a thin Cut to make manageable pieces… and pumping it through the rod to flush the gap is a total bonus… hell you could vacuum pump it back through the rod when applying it to the outside, probably even making less of a mess…
@stephenc41612 жыл бұрын
TAP
@larryrestainer99492 жыл бұрын
Lots of suggestions...use magnetic scribe or probe , small air nozzle to get to bottom if possible, electrode of tubing vs solid. As tool and die maker of 43 years, burned vent holes in hardened forging dies as small as .5 mm with rotating electrodes......very interesting.
@wesleywright58252 жыл бұрын
This is the first time I’ve seen one of these at work. When we break taps, we usually use carbide end mills at high rpms and a very slow speed rate. The bit a little smaller than the drill used for the minor diameter of the tap. Normally with the part left in the fixture or the vise. If you have a part this size already out of the machine or fixture it was in. I could easily see where this equipment would come in handy.
@trillrifaxegrindor44112 жыл бұрын
i often use a ball nose and not very high rpm,under a 1000 rpm
@moritzedelmann6102 жыл бұрын
We do it the same way, using carbide endmills to remove broken tabs but i could see this come in handy in removing a broken carbid tap.
@jesusislord65452 жыл бұрын
Repent to Jesus Christ “Lord, you are my God; I will exalt you and praise your name, for in perfect faithfulness you have done wonderful things, things planned long ago.” Isaiah 25:1 NIV
@fall221232 жыл бұрын
Same. In my last job, we had sinker EDMs, and fast hole machines. But to have them burn out a tap, there was paperwork to fill out, they could never get to it right away...management wanted to know why you broke a tap...removing them by plunging an endmill through them became my go-to method.
@lemonypeach6866 Жыл бұрын
@@jesusislord6545 stop trying to force religion on everyone. People have to find their own way. Either way Jesus was a con man who masterminded the greatest con of all time. It's hard to believe in something where the people running it keep asking for your money. Besides if you want to belive in a religion probably more feasible that one should believe in the first one. Hinduism.
@mosler3022 жыл бұрын
I've removed quite a few broken taps in my day but not that way. As other commenters stated, a carbide end mill, or in my case a carbide drill or diamond core bit. Don't go all the way through, just go deep enough so a broken screw extractor can jam in there & spin it out. If that doesn't work, drill all the way through it & chip the tap flutes with a punch. Doesn't take long.
@Backyardmech1 Жыл бұрын
I would’ve been at that for an hour or two with an air hose and a punch, trying to back that out. I’m glad there’s an industry in tools to help fix these mess ups. Happens to everyone at least once in the machining industry. Just fess up to your mess up and ask for help. Stuff happens.
@williamwixon2 жыл бұрын
That’s a beautiful thing! A human defeating a formidable foe! Congratulations! Victory!
@jimurrata67852 жыл бұрын
It's a good thing the mag base works on that material. Great save! 👍
@peterfitzpatrick70322 жыл бұрын
It wouldn't be a big deal to clamp a steel plate onto the workpiece.... there are even holes tapped in it !! 🙄😂
@Th4thWiseman2 жыл бұрын
I've done this 100's of times for multiple customers on both small and large taps without the need of an EDM, my best advice is GET SOME DECENT PUNCHES for starters and patience is the key to successful extraction!
@csl51652 жыл бұрын
Just talking about portable sparkers the other week, never seen one in use. Nice. Not something used often, but when you need it, you need it.
@byronlovesdrifting12 жыл бұрын
Never heard or seen this process before very interesting
@jay715122 жыл бұрын
Yeah same! I've also spent many hours drilling and hammering out broken taps lol.
@c0rr4nh0rn2 жыл бұрын
EDM is very good for high aspect ratio and fine holes. .1 millimeter holes through a 50 mm piece of metal? No problem. I was surprised at how large this electrode is though.
@Electricz02 жыл бұрын
If you want to learn more, check out this video by Applied Science. It explains the process very thoroughly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKGrinWwbLmif6s
@jasonk7952 жыл бұрын
I use a small chisel and break it apart chip by chip. The taps are really hard metal and breaks easy. Takes about ten minutes. You have to be careful and precise. Works every time. Diesel Technician, trade school graduate, 25 years in the field.
@tj93822 жыл бұрын
Are you saying you can remove any broken tap?
@tothenext63322 жыл бұрын
I dont believe it. You need space so when you break the tap there is some room to play with. By hitting with a chisel without creating a cavity you will just compact the problem. That's why the video showed what he did. He made space then he used the chisel.
@jasonk7952 жыл бұрын
@@tothenext6332 when they are broken they are wedged in there. You break off enough chips and it frees up. Then pull out the rest. You don't need a cavity.
@iknowyourebrokeauto4682 жыл бұрын
I have done that a crap load of times. I've also sliced open the hole like a really deep flat screwdriver to the bottom of the tap knock out the pieces weld up both sides and retap hole.
@Neildo430ci2 жыл бұрын
Used a good center punch on a broken 8m tap before.
@bulletproofpepper2 Жыл бұрын
I have seen this done on a job sites hardened bolt and carbide drill was broke trying to drill it out. The EDM was a different design or manufacturer but portable, the technician use a type of wide vinyl tape and plumbers putty to protect the surface. I was his assigned helper and learned a ton cool tricks. He made three over lapping holes, pulled the core out and the broken carbide drill, made three sided key shaft, and pour in liquid butane, installed the three keyed shaft and turned the shaft with two pipe wrenches.
@VirginiaWolf882 жыл бұрын
That was neat. I've never seen electricity used to weaken metal like that. Thank you for sharing James Park
@jodygwiinn1233Ай бұрын
Spark erosion can set electricity higher use rough electrode then finish trode better turn elec down will undercut if not
@shutdowndll61402 жыл бұрын
In my old workplace we used to precut the thread just enough so that we can later finish it by hand. Usually with a part that runs for half an hour, you got enough time to do it.
@slidey17882 жыл бұрын
I'll often do similar, threadmill to rough out and hand tap afterwards to finish. More effective that pissing about getting the threadmill running nice for only one or 2 holes.
@davecowell51832 жыл бұрын
I used to operate ecd and ecm machines so this video was really interesting to watch as I couldn't see this process while the machine doors were shut
@iaincowell9747 Жыл бұрын
What are the fucking odds! 😆
@ricardoarroyos80932 жыл бұрын
Where I worked we use to use a ball nose end mill and feed it slowly in the pull out the chunks. Worked every time. We worked only stainless parts and we used tap-matic tapping oil and it worked like a Charm every time.
@felixcat9318 Жыл бұрын
As a mere independent motorcycle mechanic, its interesting to see that engineers in far loftier establishments than mine have succumbed to the dreaded broken tap in the workpiece! Nice to see a professional at work making it good again. There will always be broken taps, hence the need to always be able to extract them.
@sailingkulali2 жыл бұрын
That was amazing. Didn’t realise that exists
@mizarstifmeister72982 жыл бұрын
-Use tabs to remove foreign substances from the threads *breaks tap again*
@brahtrumpwonbigly73092 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the nightmare fuel. The only thing worse than a broken tap is work hardened holes!
@closeenoughmicron2 жыл бұрын
He shouldve used a pick and a magnifying glass, thats what i used to do before running the tap in the thread.
@cadlabCNC2 жыл бұрын
This was so satisfying to see some one beat a broken tap
@aquarius99092 жыл бұрын
Another great video. Keep it up. Protecting the area around the hole with non-conductive layer of material e.g. some kapton tape with silicone adhesive, could preserve the initial surface quality and eliminate the cleaning of discharge marks ?
@TEFox2 жыл бұрын
I wonder what diaelectric fluid he was using, and whether a change would eliminate those surface marks. Oil instead?
@Bizzon666 Жыл бұрын
@@TEFox It probably is oil, sinker EDMs use it in most cases.
@TonyTheKiwi62 Жыл бұрын
he should do something - those marks were deep
@ReiniGrauer2 жыл бұрын
I've gotten some smaller broken taps out on my milling machine, with the part still in the fixture. I took an old, worn center cutting carbide end mill with about the same diameter as the minor diameter of the threads and ran a drill cycle, extremely slow feed rate (like .0001" per rev or something like that), down into the tap with lots of coolant. Basically ground it down with the end mill. It turns the tap into dust and the end mill still looks basically the same afterwards.
@knockout14762 жыл бұрын
I usually use a small broken carbide endmill I grind a special point to drill out broken taps. I take out broken taps all the time from other machine shops.
@ellisosmond63882 жыл бұрын
Yes it works great done it many times
@iknowyourebrokeauto4682 жыл бұрын
Did same thing in a drill press
@thelastgearbender11582 жыл бұрын
When I break a tap I beat my wife and turn to alcoholism ,also curse the universe for my existence. It's not standard engineering practice but it's alternative engineering practice.
@GeneralChangOfDanang2 жыл бұрын
@@thelastgearbender1158 This is the way
@Jefflove792 жыл бұрын
I always just used single flute carbide drill bits to get out broken taps.
@jstengineering15132 жыл бұрын
But obviously you can't charge a fortune like this guy, if you do it simple lol
@thebrowns53372 жыл бұрын
Was about to ask why the hell is he doing it like this...€£¥ of course!
@Jefflove792 жыл бұрын
@@jstengineering1513 very true! 😁
@sstorholm2 жыл бұрын
The difference is this, if you do it yourself and wreck the part, no biggie. If you’re called in to remove the tap without wrecking the part, you use EDM to make absolutely sure you don’t wreck the part, as if you do, you’re quickly approaching a reality where you don’t eat. This is why professionals are so expensive, a big part of the price is the fact that the pro is absorbing the risk, aka. the guarantee that they’ll fix the problem within a timely manner, not the work itself.
@Jefflove792 жыл бұрын
@@sstorholm i’ve never wrecked a part with a carbide drill bit, that’s why you use a carbide drill bit.
@wwsjr2Ай бұрын
Amazing! The EDM I ran back in the day was the size of a small car.
@NightriderX22 жыл бұрын
I still have PTSD of working at Pratt and Whitney and being put on an Inconel 718 rocket ring with 24 holes that need to be tapped. The amount of frustration and broken tools haunts me to this day. Nearly 500 shop hours on that part before I saw it.
@ArifKamaruzaman2 жыл бұрын
I'd tape the metal. The finishing looks weird and probably etched. Adding extra works.
@augustrush24492 жыл бұрын
súper inteligente!
@alakani2 жыл бұрын
I would use stick welder and/or vice grips with nicer looking results. How do people afford these toys
@joelayoub27742 жыл бұрын
Im guessing they didn't care about the surface and the taps were used for moving the tool
@danfarris1352 жыл бұрын
That’s a nice big tap. I probably would have drilled it out with one of my personal home made carbide drills on the large milling machine here. My last resort would be to send to the EDM guy here. I wouldn’t mind having this portable hole popper around though. It definitely would come in handy once in a while.
@bobbygetsbanned6049 Жыл бұрын
Doesn't even need special tools, just a carbide endmill slightly smaller than the hole would do the trick.
@peterharrell7305Ай бұрын
This reminds me of my first week in auto shop class. I crossed battery terminals and fried an alternator. My sho teacher said "Great. Now you get to go learn how to rebuild an alternator." I spent 2 days off site at a shop with a friend of his. It was awesome.
@sirdej98022 жыл бұрын
Hi relatively new to machining couldn't you weld a bit of stock to that tap and use a some type of wrench and slowly un-tread the tap or when it breaks is it usually friction welded to the inside?
@eviethekiwi71782 жыл бұрын
I’m surprised that part is only $5000 haha
@danielzunigagutierrez63002 жыл бұрын
I know. The material itself.
@beny71602 жыл бұрын
Not wrong. Just the material here in Aus would set you back that much.
@GoxMM2 жыл бұрын
im surprised it actualy is 5000 , my company would make it for legit 200-500
@indydominator11802 жыл бұрын
@@GoxMM unless your company makes it out of paper you can’t get a part like that out of aluminum for that cheap
@tiagolomar2 жыл бұрын
5000€ part??? Made in China right?😂😂😂
@rarbaugh072 жыл бұрын
I would have to laugh like doctor evil every time this fired up lol
@Neildo430ci2 жыл бұрын
Gab a pair of 50mm goggles.
@gregorycotter64612 жыл бұрын
Nice job saving the day!
@michaelw54562 жыл бұрын
spiffy, first time seeing one of these used, and i've been doing, conventional ram, cnc 4axis ram, active spindle, hole popper, and wire edm's for 14 years. Always just tossed a custom drill chuck to a erowa head and clamped in the desired rod set 0's and go!, Just a FYI, carbide edm electrodes are best to remove carbide tools, it's expensive as hell but i got through 3 6inch broken drills with 2. Tungsten will build up recast from the bolts/studs quicker its more material dependant.
@edastro77072 жыл бұрын
No one will ever know a machinist's anguish when the tap breaks on the last hole of the last part and you have to mill it out. I nearly walked out after breaking a 1/4-20 tap on a stainless steel part. The boss ordered thread Mills the next day. Lol
@inconel71852 жыл бұрын
Thread mills are very nice, if it breaks you just pull it out, we always use them in difficult materials
@LordOfChaos.x2 жыл бұрын
@@inconel7185 thread mills are ussually more cost effective They are expensive but they hold 10 times longer than conventional tools We only use them since 2016
@geminisduerme52662 жыл бұрын
I am inexperienced compared to my coworkers but I saw they kept breaking their taps in hard steel and recommended a thread mill ...I earned a little respect after that
@LordOfChaos.x2 жыл бұрын
@@geminisduerme5266 thread mills are overall better and more cost effective For example we had go make 600 parts which each had 6×M5 taps Conventional taps broke after 50-60 parts And thread mills held for 450 parts till we completed the contract and i think it would have held even longer The thread mill was 120 euros And the amount of taps we broke with the Conventional ones took us around 280 euros So idk I would never go back from thread mills
@stefanhauser28042 жыл бұрын
@@LordOfChaos.x where can you get a thread mill for 120€?
@lunchboxproductions11832 жыл бұрын
Have you ever tried clay as a way to protect around the hole and create a dam to funnel the used coolant away?
@davidharte4703 Жыл бұрын
I used to use a little edm machine similar to that....we used to build plasticine bowl around the top that kept the coolant always inside the thread or hole we were working on. One of those jobs where you had to be accurate and patient...
@TheHeavyMetalMan112 жыл бұрын
Nice work. very interesting to watch.
@bret_Lambky2 жыл бұрын
I have to wonder how well a thread gauge goes into it! The bolt fits, but a go / nogo is the true test. EDM machines are very cool. Being a tool and die guy, I have my own bag of foolproof tricks… !
@Bob_Adkins2 жыл бұрын
I've had pretty good luck with a left hand carbide spade drill if the broken tap has a flat place big enough to start it.
@Spongebob09112 жыл бұрын
Nice job. I learned that taps that break off while cutting (turning in for right thread) are harder to remove than those turned back to break the chip. My boss told me that that was the first question you had to ask when someone broke the tap. Taps with a bigger inner diameter we drilled a hole in the center to put in an extractor tool, trying to pull it out in its whole. If that didnt work we often referred to what you just did. Breaking off the tap bits could damage the inner thread though.
@kymerrington6044 Жыл бұрын
Hahaaa good job, what i love the most in fabrication industry is that every tool has a multi purpose, hence the burring tip of a diagrinder being used as a punch / chisel LOL. Great vid good job 🤜🤛
@davec.3198 Жыл бұрын
EDM is cool stuff! I saw it in use a great deal when working in aircraft engine part manufacturing. Super hard high nickel content alloys are very hard to machine and you either grind or EDM them.
@jimsvideos72012 жыл бұрын
Nice job! That EDM machine is a lifesaver!
@thomass64342 жыл бұрын
Electronic Dance Music Machine! Yea!
@thomasmore2602 жыл бұрын
M20 is also easily removed with a cheap plasma cutter.
@thomasmore2602 жыл бұрын
@Iniaes In Space The brittleness is not changed. The material is removed. The core of the tap is simply a little bigger than the hole made in to it and it's the left over material that get's destroyed with force.
@wersusjohn69532 жыл бұрын
Выкручивать то хоть пробовали?
@chrisguy972 жыл бұрын
Everybody gangsta till the carbide bit breaks inside the piece
@Split10uk2 жыл бұрын
You can EDM carbide.
@JordanBeagle2 жыл бұрын
@@Split10uk Electronic Dance Music? 😄
@DaIssimo2 жыл бұрын
@@JordanBeagle Sure..... ;p
@olduhfguy2 ай бұрын
That's a nice little niche market you have there. They may not need you often, but when they do they really do ! Kind of like a fireman.
@grenademagnet9516 Жыл бұрын
Just a question, but could you not weld something to the top of the tap and then twist it out again? Or would that not work?
@luke-thurston2 жыл бұрын
its always the last hole in an expensive part, that is super urgent, in aluminium tooling plate. found a new use for out galvo laser marker, great to be used as a tap edm, if you remove the laser shroud and manage to get the plate under the lens. Does the trick lovely without any heat to the ally.
@maxsolo26522 жыл бұрын
I was just thinking about using “freakin’ lasers”
@markwhelan16522 жыл бұрын
Aluminum tooling plate? Tap remover tool with prongs, dry ice, a MAP gas torch and some 3 in 1. That aluminum will grow a lot. Probably enough to loosen the jam especially if you can drop a couple small chunks of dry ice in the hole.
@maxsolo26522 жыл бұрын
Mark Whelan Or just drill the holes with freakn’ lasers
@markwhelan16522 жыл бұрын
@@maxsolo2652 easier said than done. No lasers in the shop 30 years ago either.
@danwerkman2 жыл бұрын
Although this video has no narration , I can still hear the eco's of the swearing when that tap snapped.... 😂
@Stopbeingnosyffs2 жыл бұрын
Not something I would normally watch but I must admit I really enjoyed this 👍
@kreglamirand26379 ай бұрын
I don't work on huge expensive parts like you have here (although sometimes, I probably have similar hours into something like this) but breaking a tap can be a special type of hell. I'm much more careful these days, I've learned the most expensive taps are almost always the "cheaper" option, and when possible, drill and tap as soon as order of operations allows.
@shug8312 жыл бұрын
Had that job numerous times in the past but we could machine up different sized electrodes to suit the hole. Found copper pipe good because it could cut through all the tap webs at one go and it quickly because you were only cutting the thickness of the pipe wall.
@sanches22 жыл бұрын
That is clever!
@brahtrumpwonbigly73092 жыл бұрын
That's an awesome idea
@krishnamurthynrk68422 жыл бұрын
Where this machine is avaliable I need to buy
@teamidris2 жыл бұрын
Nice one :o) Many comments about tape around the hole or putty. I’d give it a blast of primer from a rattle can. *evertime I see an eroder I feel I need one. So many useful uses like alien key plugs.
@TheTheo58 Жыл бұрын
Pretty slick equipment for extracting a broken tap 1st with "spot welding?" a rod onto the steel to break it down. Then a center punch followed by additional spot welding or cutting. Finally clean up and re-tapping of the threads. Final check with a test bolt of the same size.
@Duif_RS62 жыл бұрын
I know this a great tool, but a neat trick I learned as an apprentice in marine service, is if you had a broken tap, you could just heat it glowing red, and then punch it with a center punch. Usually it made the tap shatter in pieces and you could pick it up with needle nose pliers.
@bryantburns36642 ай бұрын
Ya, usually doesn't work that easy
@Duif_RS62 ай бұрын
@@bryantburns3664 of course if you scale it up, it becomes harder to do this trick but it works.
@martinbooyzen1562 Жыл бұрын
Note the dark region around having a rough finish(still visible after being polished, almost looks corroded). Does that fatigue the metal in any way or is it a thin surface
@brooklynperson590 Жыл бұрын
I'm also curious
@salimanangadi50212 жыл бұрын
Hello , if you use square type electrode, you could get easily because you can use a square type shaft then remove them..
@apsdev2 жыл бұрын
i tought when he was making the 2nd hole that he was making a slot to stick something in like a screwdriver. Maybe use 2 thinner electrodes and make the holes off centre so you can insert a tool to make the tap turn .. cant they make the tap so its entirely square .. not just the tip heh.
@charlescoleman81392 жыл бұрын
@@apsdev step the electrode up to a few thousandths smaller than the minor diameter of the threads and it would be cleaned out in one pass. It would take a little more setup time but overall would be quicker.
@JaspreetSingh-fo2qe2 жыл бұрын
@@charlescoleman8139 I guess it would damage the threads that way. Note the damage on the face.
@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty2 жыл бұрын
@@charlescoleman8139 Maybe set the diameter of the electrode to the web size of the tap.
@cncmoh2 жыл бұрын
Great job man!
@MotosAndMachines2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thanks for sharing it. What model EDM is this?
@156dave2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the old sparkatron we used in the tool room for removing broken drills also used it for making hard patterns
@jonredd6502 жыл бұрын
It's nothing like that!
@chrisyoung97912 жыл бұрын
$5000 dollar part and you are going to tap! Crazy! Use a threadmill!!!
@Bloodbound892 жыл бұрын
even then.. could be a defect in the tap structure like mine .. i broke m45 by hand ..
@D3nn1s2 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure they originally did. And just for recutting the last time its perfectly fine to do that by hand. With a mill theres no way youd get the thread started in the same position anyways.
@dalesmth12 жыл бұрын
@@D3nn1s A threadmilled part won’t break a tap. A chase tap is used only to de-burr the minor diameter.
@D3nn1s2 жыл бұрын
@@dalesmth1 it can still happen whenthe tap is dull or there was a chip in the hole. Maybe programmingerror, maybe the tap wasnt cooled properly. There are so many things that can go wrong on a mill as well, we dont know what happened.
@dalesmth12 жыл бұрын
@@D3nn1s A chase tap is post milling. Usually done by QA/QC (in smaller shops).
@bowbender50952 жыл бұрын
I have been in industrial maintenance for over 25 years and have removed a few broken taps by crushing them with a good punch and a hammer, I’ll bet I could get that one too!
@donalfinn4205 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting. Never seen this before!☘️👍
@TheExplosiveGuy2 жыл бұрын
I've done this _way_ too many times, though I had to use a much simpler head without the nice fine control. The coolant was pumped through the electrodes which were molybdenum tubes instead of solid carbon, and the electrode was vibrated up and down inside the head unit rapidly to form the arcs. I turned into the go-to guy for burning broken taps out because I didn't gouge the threads like everyone else lol, I had a special touch with the janky spindle system which had a bad habit of swerving at inopportune times. Those burners are indispensable, the only alternative to getting broken taps that big out is clamping them into a mill to cut the HSS tap out with carbide, which typically wrecks or breaks at _least_ one cutter. I've gotten lucky and backed a few out with a hammer and punch but that's rare, they usually fracture in multiple places and wedge themselves tight. Ohh, the joys of working on giant parts, the fun never ends...
@AntalopeAUT2 жыл бұрын
3-flute drills kill HSS-E taps securely and a bit cheaper than an endmill :) Just use the drill as if you had to drill into something with 58HRC ;)
@HousesandCars2 жыл бұрын
Do you know the name of this machine?
@TheExplosiveGuy2 жыл бұрын
@@HousesandCars I don't know this specific machine brand, I've only ever used one type made by a company called Electro-Arc which I can highly recommend but I'm sure there are cheaper options out there, they aren't exactly cheap but last literally forever, the unit I used was at least 50 years old and had burned through several thousand taps before I got to it, which I promptly doubled lol. If you just want the name of the tool itself they're called EDM tap burners, there are dozens of different companies that make them. If you're in the market for one I would recommend finding the style that pumps coolant through the electrode itself, and if you can use molybdenum electrodes (available from Electro-Arc), they last by far the longest. The brass electrodes commonly used these days (for their low price) burn through very quickly compared to molybdenum, they last at most 1/4 the amount of time as molybdenum and also cut slower, and contamination in the threads increases too, brass disintegrates and leaves oxides all over the place where the molybdenum doesn't.
@HousesandCars2 жыл бұрын
@@TheExplosiveGuy Wow thank you much. Actually I have this problem... a broken tap inside my engine block and it's 4 inches down. I was thinking about calling around to see if different shops have them in the Dayton area. It would be nice to get this car on the road.
@TheExplosiveGuy2 жыл бұрын
@@HousesandCars I'm not sure what happened, I had a detailed reply for you but youtube must have been hitting the bong again, you know how they are sometimes😉. To recap, you can either find a local machine shop that specializes in larger scale machining or some automotive shops, someone is bound to have a tap burner around you, you will just have to look around. You can also buy a $200-ish chinesium model from amazon or ebay, for your one-off need it might be a bit costly but maybe it will pay off later, assuming you can't find a local shop that can do it for you. Also, if you do end up doing it yourself (even if you don't, make sure whoever does the job follows this advice), if it's 4 inches deep into a threaded hole you are going to need a non-conductive sleeve bushing with coolant pass throughs along the side to guide the electrode down the hole without gouging out the upper hole/threads, think a section of hard plastic tube with an ID of your electrode OD and the same OD as the thread minor ID (or just a nylon bolt with a hole drilled through), with a slit cut down the length along one side, the width of a cut-off wheel on an angle grinder works perfectly. This will guide the electrode straight and centered down the hole and allows coolant to pump through the electrode and back out the hole to flush all the debris out. That deep of a hole will need a lot of coolant flow to remove all the debris created so this _has_ to be done. Of all the tap removal jobs, deep hole removals are the most difficult and risky, so be careful however you proceed.
@kalebbooher80922 жыл бұрын
I was onboard, and then the grinder on the machined surface threw me off😭
@RageXBlade2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I would have stoned it down, of course I don't know the flatness or any of the other tolerances so 🤷♂️
@keithland8252 жыл бұрын
Scotch Brite pad
@y0Special2 жыл бұрын
All the youtube mechanics are at it again I see
@matthewfrost36772 жыл бұрын
The real question is why someone familiar with this method would not mask It off to begin with. It would have taken less time than grinding or stoning and wouldn't have left a pitted surface
@ctdieselnut2 жыл бұрын
That wasn't a grinding wheel. Looks like a scotch brite type of material. Notice no sparks, and it did nothing to the light pitting around the hole.
@boydovens41802 ай бұрын
Great video nice equipment , but unfortunately most of us do not have access to such technology, and have to make use of what you have to hand . Thats when the creative juices get stimulated .
@pillpoppingemo Жыл бұрын
Eugene taps are great. They rarely break on us.
@greggminkoff67332 жыл бұрын
Breaking taps is a common occurrence when using 4-40 and 5-40 taps in air hardening tool steel like A2 , M2 and P2. We had a very large 100 gallon tank filled with oil. We would submerge the part along with the electrode and burn out the tap with an EDM machine. Worked every time. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
@f.d.66672 жыл бұрын
Haha ... EDM machine was my first thought when I saw the video thumbnail!
@Skrillfreak2 жыл бұрын
8:00 that is exactly what a carbide burr is used for
@chetmcmasterson2 жыл бұрын
I thought I was going crazy, lol
@Dhagen62782 жыл бұрын
Yeah no offense to this guy running the EDM machine, but besides running that equipment he seems really sloppy/unprepared or maybe just inexperienced. Use the right tool for the job...
@anomicxtreme2 жыл бұрын
That's what I thought.... That was totally overkill to remove a broken tap. (tab? Lmao) We do this a lot on aluminum racing blocks and have never seen anything like that before. That's like using a plasma cutter to cut a pilot hole in a piece of wood....
@JohnIsett2 жыл бұрын
The use of a carpenter’s hammer was.a clue we’re not dealing with a master machinist. Sorry, but this looks like heck. I can only imagine the threads were equally corroded and likely molecularly compromised. Thumbs down.
@antonmaier22632 жыл бұрын
@@anomicxtreme nitric acid is an elegant solution too
@rogerbean3932 ай бұрын
We used to do that 35 years ago but we had to drop the electrode manual every 5mm and adjust column height. And top the tank up . You just have a digital one now !
@FullMetal3722 жыл бұрын
That's what my wife says: "It's still hard, needs discharge one more time".