Responding to Calvinists on Total Depravity

[@chrisharris9710]

Warren is a deceptive wolf. Avoid him.

[@IdolKiller]

Thank you for that thorough refutation. You've given me so much to consider.

[@obrien709]

Yeah he’s a wolf to your idolatry.

[@chrisharris9710]

@@IdolKiller that wasn’t for you, it was for those who come to your channel. It’s funny how you cut things up to put words in the mouths of people in order to narrate the story……. Such as clipping me saying we take people at their word of profession. Which of course is referring to someone you don’t really know anything about. So while you do profess to be a Christian, your works prove that to be a false profession. You hate God and his truth and have fabricated your own god by your own truth. So, you do need to repent of your sin and come to Christ for your salvation. I do pray that happens.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

Chris Harris Justin Martyr said the devil wants you to attribute your sins to your Creator so you will burn with him. How does that make you feel? Jesus said that to call a man "worthless" is to put oneself in danger of the fires of Gehenna. Now Warren may warn you but not as severely as the great Confessor of Samaria nor the High Priest and King of Jerusalem, but he is at least addressing the same issue. Invasion of your soul by a soul raping demon is no assurance of your salvation, quite the contrary. Your spirit is antichrist.

[@brucegolston6507]

​@@IdolKillerseriously, it's not fair that you continue to post clips from all these calvinists who don't understand calvinism. You are supposed to overlook these things so these calvinists don't have to openly contradict each other while trying to refute you, only to later admit to the point you were making when they think you aren't looking. Clearly, you should be marked and avoided.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Well done. The non calvinist teachers and preachers are growing in viewership: Flowers, Thompson, Winger and Warren of idol killer. More will be rescued from Calvinism, thank God.

[@johndisalvo6283]

Brian of Faith On Fire too

[@RuffCut]

I like the way you think

[@quadrasaurus-rex8809]

If only winger wouldn’t take such a limp wristed stance on Calvstianity and stop platforming them without actual correction. That chump who goes on about “theonomy” is really worrying. Dangerous ideas, and to not seriously put up a fight but rather let them influence our brothers on your own channel? That’s a serious compromise in my eyes.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@quadrasaurus-rex8809 No, it isn't a compromise. Winger approaches error in his own way. Not every difference requires blazing guns. We Christians have real battles, and Mike Winger is not one of them.

[@omnitheus5442]

@@sheilasmith7779 Winger has some weird ideas. Having attended a Calvary Chapel and seeing their fervour for unbiblical doctrines - Moses model and rampant pretrib dispensationalism - I get why some of his views are pretty poorly constructed. Still a ‘good’ guy who means well. I’m a lot slower at labelling others ‘wolves’ or ‘heretics’. Early church as a group were patient for the most part too. I am much more patient with people who have differing views on the Trinity or some other stances others would call sacrosanct. Think it’s a good spot to be in. I’ve got enough going on with myself to start sniffing around for others. Particularly on pretty difficult concepts. And no Calvinism isn’t difficult, it is straight up illogical.

[@primeobjective5469]

The Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity is a smoke screen, designed to silence & pull the wool over the eyes of the opposition, from seeing the logical flaws found within their own systematic. For example, at 9:10 John MacArthur says "When you give someone the gospel. Because it's the truth, they can't believe it." In other words, "Calvinism is true, and if you deny it, that's evidence that your will is in bandage to sin." I equate "the gospel" with "Calvinism" for 2 reasons: 1. Calvinists themselves boast that "Calvinism IS the gospel." 2. If Limited Atonement is true, the reprobate rightfully denied the gospel, since they NEVER had propitiation for their sin to begin with, and NEVER had a Savior to repent to. The wrath of God was purposely designed for them "since before they were born or had done anything either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue", according to their teachings of Romans 9. As a matter of fact, within Calvinism, the calvinist God sends His followers to command the reprobate to "repent and believe" a gospel that was NEVER for them to begin with, AS A MEANS of revealing more "Elect", and further damning more reprobate. This is where they err, because they do not know the Scriptures. The God of truth does not command sinners to believe lies. In Calvinism, He most certainly does.

[@Eskon2]

God elects, so if we evangelize with our limitness, foreknowledge is not our problem. At best it's a comfort to the saved as redemption is not founded on our merrits. Calvin adressed it as it came by but did not make much about it. Its with Arminius that blew the lid off.

[@a.k.7840]

It's like intellectual baby seal clubbing... "Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself." 😂

[@joshuaham31]

Great work, Warren. Just preached this morning on Romans 3:9-20 and had to deal with this very topic because of how vs 11 is misinterpreted.

[@gracemercywrath8767]

Can you send me a link to your Romans series?

[@biblicaltheologyexegesisan9024]

The whole house of cards comes down when the light of scripture exposes their eisegesis

[@a.k.7840]

Now that I think about it, this was an intellectual self-clubbing on the part of Mr. Harris. "Stop hitting myself. Stop hitting myself. I CAN'T!!"

[@roddyk2655]

🤣

[@omnitheus5442]

Sad thing is his retort is Warren chopped up too many short clips and misrepresented what he was saying. He used the same defence a while back on Leighton Flowers who kindly gave him plenty of air time and easily picked him apart. He completely missed the humour of Warren chopping his face in half in the replayed clip. I’d take that over the garbage Wazza copped from Slick that was actually personal. Blessed are the humble.

[@TheOverlapLifewithTimBarber]

Outstanding work, Warren. I know it's a lot of work to put these together. I am grateful that I will share an eternal existence in the New Heavens and New Earth with these men. Grateful that Calvinism's repeated assaults on the character of God and the character assassination of His non-calvinist children will cease. Grateful that all confused thought, faulty reasoning, and dishonesty will be done away with. And I am grateful that I will be there, because I did not deserve it. Not only that, but I will be freed from the temptation to be sinfully angry against those who claim the name of Christ and yet slander Him and flout his command to be loving, humble, and self-sacrificial at every turn. I am often angry at this systematic. I don't think that's wrong. It's all heartbreaking and frustrating. But it is good to remember we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against Spiritual forces of darkness. And that God already has in hand the ultimate victory over all of this, by which He has made us more than conquerors.

[@dennisatkins9837]

Was Chris the neighbor to Tim the tool man Taylor?

[@IdolKiller]

😆 🤣 😂

[@SpielbergMichael]

This video is stunning. Great job!

[@mresab1997]

You’re the only person in the theological world that I’ve encountered that understands and employs undercutting defeaters. Perhaps maybe Kevin Thompson too. Excellent work. Calvinism is rank Gnostic heresy. Facts.

[@IdolKiller]

Tim Stratton uses it in regard to Exhaustive Divine Determinism as well, but youre right that we don't see it that often in theological circles

[@mikelyons2831]

Pinocchio to Prince Charming in Shrek: "Well, I can't exactly tell you where he isn't?"

[@pipkinrahl7264]

The amount of mental gymnastics that Calvinists go through to support their false doctrines is amazing.

[@Eskon2]

Or we use the correct terms instead see and compare 2:40 and 8:00

[@pipkinrahl7264]

@@Eskon2 Calvinism cannot survive without the redefinition of terms, the taking of Scripture out of context, and the twisting of it's meaning.

[@Eskon2]

@@pipkinrahl7264 Claims without good example are proof you lie.

[@brandonpemberton5707]

Oh yes, imagine reading Romans 9 and 10, Ephesians 1 and 2, John 6 and 10, then concluding God elects conditionally🥴 Oh yes, such tioling to twist scripture.... by accepting what it repeatedly states in the plainest concievable language👌

[@pipkinrahl7264]

@@brandonpemberton5707 Imagine reading the Bible as a whole and not believing that God elects conditionally, especially when that condition is the belief of the one who is to be elect. That's the problem with proof text theology, when you set out to prove your doctrine, you always will. The LDS do it, the SDA and JW do it, Calvinists are no better than these cults.

[@aaronhaskins9782]

it never ceases to amaze me how Calvinists deny their own beliefs, then teach what they deny.

[@justin_messer]

And then they get annoyed when Non-Calvinists compare them to Muslims and the idea of taqiyaa.

[@John3.36]

It is the nature of holding to a deceptive teaching. When you hold to that, you become that.

[@stephenrice2063]

"We deny what we teach and teach what we deny. We're consistent that way." 🤪

[@Dominick7]

Might it help to just strip away the theological terms and describe them directly as gaslighting duplicitous narcissists?

[@johnhoran9840]

Please explain why someone who believes the gospel of grace is a narcissist. @@Dominick7

[@nphoenixcrimefighter]

QUESTION: How might Cain and Able's Total Depravity be explained? Able seemed to know what God wanted in an offering, and Cain either didn't know or wanted to choose what God should want in an offering. I'll assume the Calvinists ignore the if/then statement in Gen 4:6 After the murder Cain talks with God, (fairly directly) and is under a curse. The curse comes after the murder. Was Cain Totally Depraved and still cursed? Was Cain Totally Elected and still cursed?

[@nphoenixcrimefighter]

Also, it seems God does not like Veggitarians. :)

[@IdolKiller]

In Genesis 4:6-7 we see God speaking to Cain and negating the claims of Total Depravity... but they tend to ignore this 😅

[@obrien709]

@@IdolKillerYeah they don’t like it when you bring up verse 7. Where God literally tells Cain that he should rule over sin.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

How can one read Romans 1 where it says "although they knew GOD" and then think "right there in Romans 1 it says nobody knows GOD but instead all are born not knowing GOD" That is the "illumination" of the false created light, the working of great darkness!

[@obrien709]

@@joshualeibrant3443 To go even further it says: “because ➡️what may be known of God⬅️ is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭19‬ They read this and constantly claim the exact opposite of what this verse says.

[@andrewlineberger7544]

Warren Killin Idols!

[@RexNicolaus]

The question is always asked about the unregenerate is why is the predetermined person who will never accept Christ in their heart be blame for something they were prevented from repentance and believing and being obedient to the Law? It’s taking away the responsibility of man’s sin. Why preach to an atheist that is bent on rejecting it? According to Calvinism, they’re the unregenerate and would be a waste of time to evangelize them because they’re prevented from seeing the truth. Repentance is our responsibility to do as part of our faith in Christ. It’s a command from the Lord. Why command someone to do something they’re predetermined to not be able to do?

[@RuffCut]

your killin em :)

[@janvisser6643]

I always have the feeling that most calvinist don't understand calvinism.

[@AidenRKrone]

My favorite Calvinist rejoinder to perfectly reasonable non-Calvinist objections is "You can't presume to know the mind of God!" Well, yeah, no kidding. I wasn't doing such a thing. I was asking a legitimate question about the apparent inconsistencies of Calvinist theology. Every time Calvinism is fairly questioned, Calvinists assume the questioner is trying to elevate himself above God.

[@tedfordhyde]

One of the most spot-on theological videos on the internet! We have to expose their errors in order to bring the truth in the fullest light. Thank you Warren for doing that!

[@briancross9571]

It's somewhat amusing to watch Calvinists like Chris flop around like a fish on the deck. Even quoting back exact quotes from himself, he would answer with "that's not an accurate representation of what Calvinism believes". Almost all Calvinists do this. Their primary defense is to claim they are being misrepresented even by people like myself that went to Calvinist seminaries.

[@sharonlouise9759]

I am confused as to why anyone would question the salvation of anyone when they have trusted in Jesus for their salvation. Are they not afraid of what Jesus thinks about doing this....especially since they cannot know the heart of another? Do they not care about bearing false witness. Rejection of Calvinism does not equal rejection of the gospel. I have heard Calvinists give a giant list of things that a person needs to believe before they can be saved. None of those things are in the gospel. We could accuse them of preaching a false gospel when they "add" things that aren't found in Paul's gospel (1 Corinthians 15).

[@IdolKiller]

Me: "I trust and follow Christ. I just disagree with Calvinism, but I don't kick Calvinists out of the Kingdom." Online Calvinists: "Repent, wolf."

[@sharonlouise9759]

@@IdolKiller and neither do I. If they have trusted in Jesus for their salvation then I call them brother and/or sister. I believe however that they overcomplicate the gospel and upon coming out of "reformed" thinking that it distorts your world view and can lead to a nihilism filled with hopelessness and despair. I find that many calvinists have a difficult time of extending the right hand of fellowship with those who disagree with Calvinism and are too quick to call others "wolves, dangerous, heretics, deceptive", etc. I was once called a "Jezebel" by a pastor who didn't even know me.

[@obrien709]

@@sharonlouise9759A Christian who rejects Calvinism is doing the opposite of rejecting the Gospel. Calvinism is not the Gospel in anyway in fact it would be terrible news not “the good news.”

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@sharonlouise9759 Unfortunately, Calvinism does not afford any assurance of one’s own salvation. No one can know if they’ve received the “ Gift of Perseverance” on this side of the proverbial ‘grassy knoll’. It’s so ironic they would pass judgment another when an honest Calvinist cannot even look at themselves in the mirror with confidence of their own ‘election’. (brings to mind the “mote and the beam”) There are hard-core types on both sides of the aisle who each deny salvation to the other. They should not. I think both are ignoring what scripture says about how salvation occurs. God saves those who will believe on Christ unto their own salvation. The argument is not “if” they believe in Christ, it centers on “how” and “why” they come to believe. As for anyone who affirms and believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and his virgin birth, and sinless sacrifice for our sins unto their own salvation, I have no reason to doubt their salvation, regardless of how confused they might become as to how it happened. Apart from, perhaps, the Presbyterians, it seems the majority of Calvinists were believes in Christ before being convinced to accept and believe 'TULIP' by someone more skilled at arguing for their cherry-picked proof texts than the non-Calvinist was at placing them in their proper non-Calvinist context. This is even true if Sproul and Piper, etc. by their own testimonies. Using their subtly crafted Calvinist arguments it is possible to convince the unprepared non-Calvinist they really have been a Calvinist all along and just didn’t ‘know it' inside of 30 minutes, it happens every day.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@ManassehJones On the contrary, I believe the scripture which says God has promised to save whosoever will believe and confess unto their own salvation... I qualify.🏆 Rom. 10,“ 8 The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” However, Calvinism contends that all are "born" unable to believe, and will never call upon the name of the Lord unless God 'regenerates' them first, and forcefully causes them to believe (against their own will). BUT.... this is equally as true of those demonstrating apostasy! With this being their fundamental premise, on what basis does a Calvinist/determinist have a nail upon which to hang their own hat? 🤔🤷🏻‍♂ Manny, seriously, how do you even know you are 'chosen' for salvation and not just an episode of Evanescent Grace... before you die??? That is a question I've asked before but you have never addressed it.... If I claimed your doctrine... I'd ignore that question too. Any honest Calvinist/Determinist who truly understands their doctrine sleeps with one eye open.

[@tedfordhyde]

Gave this a thumbs up before I even watched it ...😅

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

It would seem that Chris doesn’t agree with the top Calvinists of our day. Maybe he should spend his time correcting them instead of you, Warren. They certainly are deceiving huge numbers of people.

[@inTruthbyGrace]

GREAT advice!!

[@DavidOhlerkingII]

Top Cs!

[@erixxu3260]

Dear brother Warren is doing a great job, against Calvinism wrong doctrine, fighting for truth. Wish God with you, and bless all your valuable works.😊👍🙏💪

[@MrConsto]

So an unregenerate person can rightly divide the word of God but he can’t choose to accept or act of those truths prior to regeneration. Hmmm, so is he dead or not? He is only dead to choose God but he can choose and rationalize intellectually like a not dead man.

[@sharonlouise9759]

Awesome video! Every single time that someone comes up with a "perfect" argument that refutes Calvinism, they make adjustments. "Oh, we don't mean they can't do anything good at all, but that the good they do is done with wrong motives." Now, "oh yes, they can understand what Scripture is saying (which is spiritual truth) and actually arrive at the truth, BUT they will ALWAYS hate it...they will ALWAYS reject it...they will ALWAYS....(add your own made up reason here because any old reason will do) because it directly contradicts their doctrine. They must "save" their doctrine at all costs.

[@alonzoharris9049]

You are right. Just like trinitarians make adjustments to try to make the trinity work. All adjustments fail.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

@@alonzoharris9049 Then go with the ancient definition of the absolutely simple monad who rules within the Triad. You can't go wrong with that! It doesn't contradict itself or scripture in any way.

[@cfrost87]

​@@alonzoharris9049have you read John 1 or Hebrews 1?

[@Eskon2]

It might be in order to attack Calvinism they have to straw-men it first?

[@joshualeibrant3443]

@@cfrost87 The scriptures you use to prove that Jesus is a part of a single "He" pretending to be three "He's" actually assert the Monarchy of the Unbegotten Father. You should not get your doctrine from a douche bag of theology which is the Catholic Church and her abomination known as the "Athanasian Creed" know in the Eastern Orthodox Church as the "Pseudo Athanasian Creed". Protestantism is a GOD forsaken mess of slander abomination and spiritual whoredom. Let me make one thing absolutely simple. The Monad is the Father. The Triad is the Father plus two more rightly called "God" capital "G" because in ADDITION to the person of GOD there are TWO also Divine BY NATURE.. Cut the crap and let some other ignorant person spew trash from there faces. Be Clean for Christ's sake!

[@Dilley_G45]

Calling someone's criticism "dangerous" is what the woke atheists do. It's the whole gaslighting / ad hominem / false dichotomy playbook

[@IdolKiller]

Yep.

[@exjwlaura]

Crushed it!

[@IdolKiller]

Thanks!!!

[@a.k.7840]

Quick! Somebody get Chris a Coogi Sweater! Turn that frown upside down!

[@JonathanGrandt]

Coogi is TIGHT

[@st.christopher1155]

One of the most hopeless and deceitful things I have ever heard out of a pastors mouth (in this case John MacArthur’s) concerning evangelism is this: “Because it is the truth, they can’t believe it”. I know that many “pick on him” about his absurd mark of the beast beliefs, but this is INFINITELY worse because of the gospel subject matter at hand. ✝️🙏🏼📖

[@AlexanderosD]

😂 Love you Warren! Your ability to lay down the satire while lathering it up in truth, makes my heart happy.

[@IdolKiller]

Thank you!!!

[@wareaglejf]

Absolute baller intro music.

[@roddyk2655]

It must be wonderful to be a Calvinist... you get to say anything you want no matter how ridiculously inconsistent and then pretend like that proves Calvinism true then project their obstinance onto non-Calvinists... I live in a world where I accept the possibility that I could potentially be wrong, theologically speaking... so that's why I constantly examine myself and what I 'believe' to find areas I'm wrong in or where I've accepted unbiblical interpretations of other as truth. I just wish for one day a Calvinist would consider for may one second that they could in some possibility be wrong and that Calvinism could potentially be wrong and just consider what life would be like if Calvinism were wrong and maybe they'd see the Light... I mean, I do that all the time, I put myself, mentally, in Calvinism and examine the ramifications on myself, other and the bible if Calvinism were true... but no... all you get from Calvinists is the S.I.G.N.... Shame Insults Guilt and the Need to be right... it's down right sociopathic... PS - I almost forgot to worship you Warren... All Hail the Grand Pubah Maharishi of The Idoluminati 🖖👌🤘🙌👐🙏🙇 ..

[@janetdavis6473]

Hey Roddy, I love your S.I.G.N. acronym! So true! My dad is a diehard Calvinist and just says NO outright if I try to present another possible view. Won’t even consider anything other than Calvinism. Sad.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

@@janetdavis6473 I sat down with my dad who is an unrepentant adulterer, and for the first time he seemed to listen to me, to hear me out. He has repented, but he may have made the first step which is to start listening. I showed him how his "independent" hypocritically "non Augustinian" "freewill" Baptist was actually undermining the incarnation of Christ our rescuer with his theologically retarded affirmation of inherited original sin and damnation doctrines. I hope the implanted seed of the Word will overcome his mental slavery to Satan but I have little hope. I can tell you Jesus is able if we are willing to listen to Him, truly only GOD can open the eyes of those who think GOD made sin natures

[@philipmurray9796]

Most Calvinists today, like myself, used to believe what you now believe. They used to believe in free will, no predestination, etc. So what appears as a stodgy stubbornness could be just that they see things differently now and there's no going back. It would be like a girl that grows up as a liberal progressive Democrat from Portland slowly becomes a conservative after hearing some talks from Jordan Peterson or Thomas Sewell. Her worldview changes. Then she later comes across old college friends who are still liberal, and they accuse her of being a traitor, stuck in these backwards bigoted ways. And they can't convince her that there's another way.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

@@philipmurray9796 I will acknowledge that Calvinism is the logical conclusion of Augustinian presuppositions held by both Calvinists and Arminians, and Roman Catholics. I grew up freewill Baptist (Arminian) and became a Calvinist preacher. Then I found out that both are "liberal" by bible standards and that their beliefs are nothing but a false tricotomy. within western "Christianity" and is nothing but internal feuding between sacramental and non sacramental Catholics.

[@roddyk2655]

@@janetdavis6473 I'm sorry you have to deal with that... it's hard especially when it's family...

[@dannymcculloch462]

I had a 'deja vu' moment when seeing the comments Chris Harris made about Warren on Twitter. They reminded me so much of the response of Jordan Riley when I commented on one of his videos.

[@IdolKiller]

You mean Calvinist Fred Durst?

[@MarkRidlen]

I missed the part where he refuted you.

[@casparjw]

Are you kidding me? How in the world could you miss Chris' epic refutation on Twitter where he called Warren a deceptive wolf that needs to repent? 👍

[@stephenbaughman3006]

If we are totally incapable, why then does Paul say he "reasons with" (dead men??), persuades men, and convinces men. Dead men? 2 Corinthians 5:11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. Acts 9:22 Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. [Who is Paul "proving" it to? Dead mean? Irresistibly-drawn men need no proof.] 1 Cor 9: 19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. [Paul is going out of his way here to show that what he does makes a difference.] Acts 17:2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures [You cannot reason with "dead" men and irresistibly-grace-elect should not need to be reasoned with. Here again, Paul is claiming that to some degree, his reasoning is making a difference.] Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. [Paul is "trying to convince them" (even the ESV says this!!). Again....he is claiming that to some degree his "trying to convince" makes a difference. NOTICE in all of these.....it does not say anything about an extra work of God. NO... all these passages talk about Paul (his efforts) and man's "reason". They certainly contradict your "man has no whatsoever share in it."] Acts 28:24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. [Well, there you go..... the Bible clearly says that the words of Paul were what convinced some. So I guess you could say that his words had something to do with it, right?] Acts 18:4 And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. [More persuading!!] Acts 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God. Over and over. Persuading, convincing, and reasoning with. You dont do that with dead men.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees! I knew Calvinism/Deformed theology was wacked when I introduced myself to someone who said to me, "I attend a Calvinistic church. Where do you go?" "I attend a Christian church, bye."

[@shepherd7744]

Warren you ARE the OG baby...!!!

[@joshualeibrant3443]

Warren is a good disciple of the O.G.s disciples. Like any of us we cannot be the O.G.s no matter how much we try. We are 2000 years late and separated from the apostles and their bishops by language, culture and geography, but we can get ever closer by faith and I believe that even though we be unbaptized we shall undergo the reality of death and resurrection symbolized in baptism and be united to Christ at the great consumation of the marriage feast of the Lamb. May GOD bring us safely into His kingdom even if we are the lowest of His servants.

[@TimBarr-e8p]

The Calvinists particularly Calvinist Teachers hold that God can violate the Laws of Logic. They hold You can't make a square circle but God can and then cover there Irrationality with the claim that it's just a mystery. See Dietrich Bonhoeffer's "Theory of Stupidity"

[@joshualeibrant3443]

They are not the only ones. Nearly all "Trinitarians" assert that one plus one plus one plus one is One GOD. This first presupposition sets the stage for all other illogical beliefs

[@roddyk2655]

Amen.. 💯💯💯

[@sharonlouise9759]

@@joshualeibrant3443 no, my friend. You have the wrong math equation: It is 1x1x1=1

[@joshualeibrant3443]

@@sharonlouise9759 Then you deny there are three persons. Myselfxmyselfx myself is only one person myself. Me+my comforter+my First begotten=three called adam.

[@joshualeibrant3443]

@@sharonlouise9759 Adam+Eve+Seth= three called adam by substance/essence/nature. Even as there is but one called GOD in the Trinity of three GOD/God by substance.

[@tedfordhyde]

I love just the mere fact that your expose of platonism / Calvinism gets these cultists panties in a wad. There's no more God-slandering, Christ's sacrifice despising, scripture twisting, biblical narrative denying group of people on the face of the Earth. Too bad there can't be a whip of chords driving certain folks from a sanctified place episode that would actually be feasible nowadays. It is very deserved.

[@justin_messer]

I mean this doesn’t even get into the whole notion of evanescent grace. If man’s imago dei is totally broken, as Calvinists assert. How do you tell between the two graces? Total deprevity suggests you can’t. Thus defeating the very concept of Sola Fide in one fell swoop.

[@meganotofthisworld]

Audio Bible, what translation it is and can you provide us a link? Thank you.

[@RevReads]

I felt bad for @chrisharris9710 by the end. How is his knowledge of his own view so off base from the rest of his group? If I was him I just wouldn't know where to belong after watching this. He can't really count himself a Calvinist even if he wants to be one.

[@Eskon2]

Exactly, my gripe as a Calvinist with these many straw-men swinging about, they sure are easy to hang out to dry.

[@618society7]

Well done.

[@CosmicalChrist]

Two verses that blows Calvinism out the water Matt.19.23 - Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, *IT IS HARD* for a *RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN* Matt.19.24 - Again I tell you, *it is EASIER* for a camel to go through the eye of a needle *THAN FOR A RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM of God* How does this resonate with Calvinism?

[@franciscafazzo3460]

who would want to be called a calvinist or any other ist, or ism?

[@ru-noble6730]

Good one! Very effective. We can now all put the Letter "T" in the trashcan.

[@EnriqueMateo0125]

Calvinism is the good ole boy club. This guy is inarticulate and trying to regurgitate what the other club members spew out. I used to be a Calvinist. Thank God he is not static but actively engaged in bringing us to our/his senses!! Thank you Jesus!!

[@contemplate-Matt.G]

Corey Minor just put out a video using, actually abusing, the Greek to turn Jn 3 16 into a Calvinist proof text. How low can it get. Leave Jn 3 16 alone! God so loved the world that whoever believes in Jesus is saved.....even in the Greek

[@Sine-of-the-Times]

Good job on this one, Warren. The McArthur, Slick and Lawson clips are important. I urge folks to even look at the greater context of these sermons so you can see how quickly these "great preachers" divert from the truth of Scripture, into meta-physical gnosticism...

[@Over-for-now]

Iam SO SO thankful that we are all on the same ground before the cross. Jesus came for SINNERS ONLY. We are dead and God in mercy saves

[@Myrdden71]

So when Jesus was amazed at the unbelief of those he spoke to, did He just not know about Calvinism's Total Depravity and Inability? When he marveled at the faith if the Roman soldier, did He not know how faith is given by God? Asking for a Calvinist friend...

[@nphoenixcrimefighter]

If Calvinists truly believed in predeterminism they would have come up with some sort of "test" to determine who is predetermined. They would NEVER argue or debate the issue, as changing minds is impossible. Instead, they would be an ancient secret society moving in the shadows looking for those only they can know are, like them predetermined. They would have zero concern for the rest of doomed humanity and no heretical preaching would be of any concern.

[@obrien709]

And to take it further everything that is “bad” like heresy for example is actually from God and for His glory so all things are actually good. Of course in determinism God has determined all deception and all their thoughts as well so they have no way of “knowing” anything really. Even if they could “know” something what they “know” could be deception.

[@petromax4849]

But they're predetermined to debate as if they weren't predetermined. They can't help it, that's just how God likes it.

[@Eskon2]

We believe it but as it can't be leveraged. Calvinism is a theology looking at the bible with God in the center. God foreknows, we dont. At best we Calvinists use this golden chain of redemption to find comfort in God as solely responsible our salvation if we get saved. Thus to God all the glory.

[@obrien709]

@@Eskon2 Every Christian believes God is the One who saves. That’s not a Calvinist belief. What Calvinists do is create a false dichotomy claiming that if God has created people able to respond to Him and “choose life or death good or evil” then that means they save themselves. It’s just not true. Same thing with foreknowledge. Foreknowledge doesn’t equal causality but Calvinist will attempt to make people think it does.

[@nphoenixcrimefighter]

@@Eskon2 Calvinism is an ideology looking at the Bible with it’s system at the center.

[@lize7665]

Consistent Calvinists view non-believers as zombies instead of image bearers of God.

[@EulersIdentityCrisis]

You're flattening it out ;(

[@obrien709]

Yeah it’s more confusing, I mean multidimensional than that.

[@douglashall7400]

Brilliant!

[@heathporter752]

Is this the same Chris who’s always challenging Flowers?

[@GinnieKateCritters]

It’s terrifying how easy this doctrine is for teachers/preachers to be able to gaslight and abuse their congregations. Absolutely terrifying.

[@Nehemiah277]

I've seen a lot of his videos before. He does have a faulty logic, and often does not accurately represent the views he's critiquing, does not engage with the actual argument, or simply, as you noted, equivocates on his own views to "dodge the bullet". I'm on the fence as to whether he does this intentionally or that he has just absorbed the general Calvinist methodology of inconsistency and illogical fallacies. Perhaps a bit of both.

[@richsellskc]

9:14... what crock. Gospel of John 1:9..."The true light, which gives light to EVERYONE, was coming into the world." God gives all, without exception, the ability to see. It is up each individual to work it out or not. It is also up to the bold and simple preaching of the Word of God for anyone to know Christ's work. Hence, "go into the world, preach the word because the harvest is plenty, laborers few" also see Romans 10...on and on and on, simple truths get twisted as excuse for why God "is not working in my church"...wah! So, let's create a new "construct" and fill the pews with lies?

[@AlanaL3]

This is hilarious

[@johntrevett2944]

Alana, I know you went on with Leighton and that was great. These folks disagree with the doctrines of original sin and total depravity. They also believe a born again, regenerated, Holy Spirit indwelt believer can lose salvation. Do you now hold to this and how exactly do those that hold to this theology, truly have thier faith in Christ alone?

[@AlanaL3]

@@johntrevett2944 I do not believe in “original sin” either. We are born fallen, aware of good and evil, in need of a redeemer, but NOT guilty. God is just and judges people according to their deeds. What sinful deeds has an unborn child or a young child committed? Where there is no law, sin is not imputed. You are guilty when you know you’re doing something wrong. God is just. Also, no scripture that implies we are born guilty of someone else’s sin. We become guilty when we sin, and everyone will sin because everyone is “fallen.” Again “lose salvation” not in Bible. Harden your heart and fall away from the living God yes in Bible. Apostate, yes in Bible, shipwrecked faith, yes in Bible, IF you hold fast, yes in Bible. Hope that helps:)

[@johntrevett2944]

​@@AlanaL3Thank you for the response. I'm trying to understand how believing salvation is up to an individual "keeping/maintaining" the faith once regenerated/born again is compatible with the gospel. There is nothing in scripture that true faith can go into unbelief or that a born again believer can "lose" salvation. A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13-14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory. A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.

[@TroubadourMusic]

NEWS FLASH: It's not a sin to be a human being. Total depravity is the ultimate excuse for sin and they know it, and they are purposefully deceitful about it. Chris is very confused.

[@matthewford4050]

I encourage you all to lookup scroll publishing and David Bercot.

[@matthewford4050]

I am thinking of doing videos myself to refute 1. Calvinism 2. Hebrew roots The main thing i see as a root for all these problems is the view of atonement and what is meant by in the "likeness of sinful flesh"

[@huey7437]

Yup, @chrisharris9710 really exposes his own ignorance or his own duplicitousness and bad-faith argumens at @7:17 , @10:40 , @13:47 , and @17:21-18:18 It's pityful to see him, a parker no less, engaging in such potty trollish behavior. I wish he'd just engage honestly with the controversial topics instead of No True Scottsman, ad hominem, and caricature

[@tricord2939]

Please help. Why won’t my Muslim or Hindu neighbors choose to receive Jesus as there savior and become Christian? What can I say or show them?

[@davidochiengbuoga7165]

Just preach the gospel of God to them and leave the rest to God. It is God who opens people's hearts to believe in His Son No one can believe unless he is given the heart to believe, the saving faith. God will reveal His Son to anyone He wills That doesn't require your labor, efforts, ability to convince, but God Himself "(Romans 9:16)

[@ProclaimingtheLight]

As a Calvinist I'd love to discuss this stuff with you sometime.

[@EstelleWalter]

Calvinism makes me mad. I genuinely want (and sometimes actually do) click off any video that has a hint of Calvinist doctrine in it. It's poison and it's hurtful. Btw, saying that our works are byt filthy rags, is that from Calvinism or what doctrines does it come from? Anyone knows?

[@IdolKiller]

It comes from Isaiah "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our wrongdoings, like the wind, take us away." Isaiah 64:6 This passage speaks of the individual becoming unclean by way of committing sin. However the Calvinist sees this as saying we were created sinful and guilty in our mother's womb. So while Isaiah says our righteous deeds have become corrupt, the Calvinist says there are no righteous deeds.

[@EstelleWalter]

@@IdolKiller So that's too from Calvinism. According to the context, it seems to be a prayer of confession since Israel has been working iniquity and Isaiah then says that their righteous works are thus filthy rags in the sight of God. Which, if you're working iniquity seems legit since those who do good works are dressed in fine linen according to Revelation. So it doesn't mean that all our works are filthy rags and that men can't do anything good. It just means that when we're sinning and working iniquity that's probably what God sees (and it makes me think of other verses linked to those who return to their vomit and those who lie in the evil one and the pids who roll in their mud). But those who do good and righteous works have washed their garments and are clothed in clean fine linen. Revelation 19:8: And authority was given to her to clothe herself with shining clean fine-linen. For the fine-linen is the righteous-acts of the saints. The righteous deeds becoming like filthy rags might also be related to that passage: Ezekiel 33:13-16: When I say to the righteous, You shall live; and he trusts in his righteousness, and shall commit iniquity, none of his righteousnesses shall be remembered; in his unrighteousness which he has wrought, in it shall he die. And when I say to the ungodly, You shall surely die; and he shall turn from his sin, and do judgement and justice, and return the pledge, and repay that which he has robbed, and walk in the ordinances of life, so as to do no wrong; he shall surely live, and shall not die. None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered: because he has wrought judgement and righteousness; by them shall he live.

[@Myrdden71]

MacArthur: "Because it's the truth, they can't believe it." Jesus: "and the truth will set you free." Also Jesus: "Seek, and you will find." Calvinists seem to have that completely backwards. You cannot seek until you've been regenerated. Of course, then you won't need to seek, right? You will have found, or rather been found. Seems like Calvinists are saying "Seek, but you still won't find."

[@Drspeiser]

I never knew Mr Wilson was a Calvinist with his own KZbin channel!

[@IdolKiller]

Howdy ho, neighbor!

[@Drspeiser]

@@IdolKiller *Hi dee ho!

[@franciscafazzo3460]

when do they tell you about Christ? these men have no gospel. just fear

[@brandonpemberton5707]

Yes. You get them! After this they'll sure depart from giving God ALL the glory, to a man centered soteriolgy where God elects as a reactionary to viewing mans faith which they somehow conjured up within themselves with a bit of nudging despite being spiritually dead👌

[@IdolKiller]

As you've exemplified rather well with your comment, it's hard to set the self-deceived free as they've willfully rejected the truth. When you actually care about such things, hit me up. I'd be happy to help introduce you to the Living and Holy God of Scripture.

[@raybrensike42]

We really ought to break our own boxes. It's better that way. There is always more of God outside of a box than inside. Way more.

[@granthollandvideos]

It seems we do come to Know Jesus, but this isn’t at the start a personal knowing , they seem to be arguing for a different type of knowing , it seems to me that it’s this different knowing that saves them and not Jesus per se

[@broal122]

I know Adam talked with God after the fall. I don't understand too much of this total depravity. I know Nann seek after God but this idea God can't talk to you and you can't talk back or respond back how's the devil get by with it all the time

[@AtomicGarden68]

They really have this crazy ego that they have God figured out and I believe they are the Pharisees of Christianity along with being wrong. Always condemning no love whatsoever. Ever see the congregation at a Macarthur sermon in his church? I compare it to a funeral.

[@graftme3168]

They always talk against emotions. Imagine being blind for many years and suddenly you can see. Well, they must still be blind.

[@jw2442]

How does not believing in total depravity / original sin / pre-faith regeneration according Calvinistic doctrine equate to not believing on Christ The Redeemer? The Pastor does have a point, though. It seems to me, the Council of Orange states that it is impossible for an ungenerate person to happily accept the truth of The Gospel. They, however, can understand it and articulate it extremely well, but they can't believe and accept it.

[@christophersnedeker]

Here's an interesting thing I thought of today about calvinists who believe unbaptized babies go to hell. Ask these people "if someone was baptised who didn't believe would they be saved?" "No of course not" "Then how does baptism save babies who can't believe and confess the faith?" "Their parents speak for them" "Can an adult who does not believe be saved because of the belief of their parents?" "No.... but then how then can a baby be saved?" "According to your views they cannot"

[@sheilasmith7779]

How then did Abel, born AFTER, the fall, make a righteous decision, and obeyed God. Argue what one will, but the evidence is in scripture. No where does it state in scripture that Abel was given the H.S, so that he could respond to God. Abel, freely chose to obey God. As did Moses, Abraham, Noah etc. In our nature we are Adam and Eve. Follow the evidence. No, Total Depravity.

[@LindsayJackel]

Amen. So true Sheila.

[@Eskon2]

So do you not believe in the holy spirit? Or do you belief the Holy spirit is a temporal creation who wasnt around with Genesis?

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@Eskon2 I certainly do believe in the H.S. The H.S. is so important that it is mentioned in scripture, telling me that God wants me to know of its importance, it's power and its role. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned or suggested in the story of Cain and Abel, Moses, Abraham, Noah Job, etc... so what does that tell us about the choices of these men? Each of these men, and others, were under the influence of God, by their willingness to be so. Study the life of David. Notice his choices, his decisions and his actions.

[@Eskon2]

@@sheilasmith7779 Okay sorry to ask such a question, but now it makes quoting the bible meaningfull. My gripe is with these 2 statements:'No where does it state in scripture that Abel was given the H.S, so that he could respond to God. Abel, freely chose to obey God.' The 1st might be a straw man of calvinism The 2nd a simplification negation of God's work in mankind. Now however you said this: 'Each of these men, and others, were under the influence of God,' God is omnipresent, if we go to hell we can be rebuked for rejecting God's work. There is a reason however some people do not respond to God. If we do respond to God, the reason is because God has drawn us.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@Eskon2 The word, draw: Draw: to attract, entice, allure, as to draw a crowd. Can you think of anything we move toward that we are not attracted to? It's the stimulant that moves us in everything. Cain and Abel were both drawn to God, aware of God, attentive to God. It is necessary to be drawn to God, but not sufficient to be saved. Sometimes we make things far more complicated than they are.

[@lifelinesoutreach]

What sin is controlling your life?

[@IdolKiller]

Not so low key ad hominem

[@lifelinesoutreach]

@@IdolKiller Psalm 58:3

[@lifelinesoutreach]

@@IdolKiller Name the last person you shared the Gospel with, when, and what happened? Matthew 4:19- Mark 1:17

[@IdolKiller]

@@lifelinesoutreach I LOVE Psalm 58 as it utterly wrecks Augustinian anthropology. www.idolkiller.com/post/understanding-psalm-58

[@lifelinesoutreach]

@@IdolKiller So who is the last person you shared the Gospel, when, and what happened. 1 John 2:3-4

[@grantvv8971]

Love what your doing, and agree with you, but I think you could go about this is a more loving, less condescending way 😊

[@IdolKiller]

I hear you! Those efforts were exhausted prior to producing this video. Sometimes a stern rebuke is what's needed to get through to some people. That's why I waited months before doing a response video, I kept messaging and tweeting him but he moved further and further into dishonesty.

[@skyt54]

A Calvinist is totally depraved in that they are unable to see or understand the truth of the Gospel because their minds have been taken over by Augustine's and Calvin's Gnostic theology and they filter all, ALL, of Gods words through the false paradigm of the Manichean Gnosticism that Augustine was into before he came to the Catholic Church. If they were interested in the TRUTH, they could see it if they simply read Gods' word with the intention of learning what the Apostles were preaching.

[@KrisVComm]

You are very confused. I would be interested in speaking with you.

[@IdolKiller]

Why don't you start by giving some examples?

[@kevinmorris4517]

I think many of the errors in Calvinism stem from approaching scripture as an intellectual pursuit from a Western mindset and not a cultural, relational, Hebraic perspective. Without an understanding and appreciation for Jewish idioms and cultural definition of terms, Calvinists pour their own meaning into the text instead of extracting from it. This also explains why replacement theology and anti-Semitism go hand in hand with Calvinism. From personal experience, verses about being born Dead in Trespasses and Sin at first glance seem to support Calvinist doctrine. After all how responsive is a dead person? A Western mindset thinks of death as cessation of life. But a Hebrew mindset of death is separation, which means the person is capable of actions (including repentance) even though there is a barrier between the two. This is exemplified in the story of the Prodigal son who while separated from the Father (dead to) was able to make a choice to return to (repent) and the Father upon seeing him off in the distance coming home ran to embrace his son. What an amazing, loving God who reveals His Father heart in scripture. Notice the son still had free will to stay in the pig pen or to turn to the Father. He was not stuck in his depravity unable to take action without his Father taking further action.

[@lifelinesoutreach]

Psalm 51:5

[@IdolKiller]

Great example of a prooftext that doesn't teach what the Augustinians claim. Here's an old article I wrote addressing it. www.idolkiller.com/post/understanding-psalm-51

[@lifelinesoutreach]

@@IdolKiller What sin in controlling your life?

[@IdolKiller]

@@lifelinesoutreach what sin is controlling your life?

[@lifelinesoutreach]

@@IdolKiller I am Born Again? Are you? Romans 8.

[@Over-for-now]

Why do we need calvin? God receives ALL the GLORY and HE WILL NOT share HIS GLORY with another

[@iglesiadedios.8816]

I thought dead means dead, like dead, really dead, totally dead. ¿You know?

[@IdolKiller]

Like a "dead man walking" on death row?

[@John-Christchurch-NZ]

The lens you come to scripture with will determine what you see in it. Having been on just about every side (Churches, Doctrines) in over 40 years of following Jesus I believe I can't understand where they are coming from and why they come to the conclusions they do. I’m thankful that after an encounter with the Jesus through the Holy Spirit, I fell in love with Jesus. I am also thankful for the understanding imparted to me by my early mentors. Turns out they were right, though that was probably the Holy Spirit. The Bible is about real people in real situations, Not philosophies we call doctrines. His name is Jesus. HE is the Gospel

[@thevocabularychannel6883]

If a word or phrase is not in scripture, you're under no obligation from God to believe or affirm it. Total depravity, limited atonement, trinity, etc. God will judge you by his words: John 12 vs 48

[@ArcLightShock37]

Hilarious to hear this kind of garbage from Steven Lawson in particular. Also love how much Justin Peters wants him completely swept under the rug as if he weren't idolized by him and other 'wise' men for years.

[@joehancock5119]

Interesting that rightly rejecting and calling out the falsehood of Calvinism, a set of doctrines that first infected the church in the 5th century, somehow makes you the wolf, Warren. "And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

[@chaddoyle9009]

Proverbs 16:4

[@jamesedwards.1069]

In our flesh dwelleth no good thing. So, where does anything good come from? God, obviously. Ipso facto, Q.E.D. Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me GOOD? there is none GOOD but one, that is, GOD: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me GOOD? there is none GOOD but one, that is, GOD. Lu 2:14 Glory to GOD in the highest, and on earth peace, GOOD will toward men. Lu 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me GOOD? none is GOOD, save one, that is, GOD. Romans 7: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

[@brucebishop9021]

0:09

[@TheMaskedBaptist]

Chris' logical inconsistencies abound here. From a "salad bar" Calvinism.

[@Eskon2]

2:40 IS INCORRECT Its not intellect but nature, more encompassing. Also dont know anyone believing what is expressed in the last sentence. About incapable of naturally understanding God or rightly understanding spiritiul truths. As God can make us supernaturally understand making it natural as well. Quoting the council of Orange as authoritive also means you have to deal with grace by baptism making you either Catholic, Lutheran or Kuyperian all false doctrines or in case of Lutheranism believers in total depravity or bondage of the will. The quote from the institutes does not even mention prevenient grace. Using terms outside of the bible will just dilute the debate, coupled with the fact no opposite term is mentioned. Note that prevenient grace is also part to classical and wesleyan arminianism. 8:00 Lawson total depravity: human NATURE. Called it 9:40 human capacity 0 but God's capacity is infinite. And God speaks to us trough scripture.

[@IdolKiller]

This video is focusing on one aspect of TD, not claiming this is all TD is. Check out the entire series, starting in E1 where it's Steelmanned. I do not regard the Council of Orange as Authoritative. I quoted it as often Calvinists reference it as such and it presents a specific condemnation related to how we are to see man's nature.

[@Eskon2]

@@IdolKiller So your argument is that this part is not the whole, and seen complete your argument is utterly false. The solution is to not cut it in part that do not rrepresent Total depravity. It is not steelmanned but strawmanned. The council of Orange is not like the Heidelberg Cathechism a statement of our faith. Its a council contra semi-pelagianism, do you hold to that position that you get this trown your way? As only other party to quote it to would be Catholics as they have to ascribe some authority to it.

[@omnitheus5442]

Ah Chris Harris the master of obfuscation and running away from the topic at hand. How he still bothers to think he has a shred of credibility on this topic is the real conundrum.

[@gunstonerocks1427]

"Calvinism is false and that is great news." Yahsir!

[@fernandosviewpoint]

Isn't it hypocrisy to call to repentance and conversion those who any way will come and to chastise and condemn those who can not repent?