Responding to TMM's Comments About EU Tekken Scene

[@awaisakram8573]

I mean he’s not wrong . Asia (Pakistan,korea,Japan,etc) then America and then EU in order .

[@gutts4208]

When it comes to top players yes, but you gotta realize it's like the top .5% of each region. I'd say mid and higher it's more inconsistent when it comes to tournaments because literally anything can happen.

[@yaxxbass]

I don't think it the skill level that's the "problem" it's the statement like top players are lacking fundamentals, just because they aren't using "proper" characters. It comes across as disrespectful, snobbish and plainly wrong. However I must admit, I haven't seen the mainman source.

[@gutts4208]

@@yaxxbass For sure, its typical Mainman elitism. He swears Marduk is op despite having less than average frames, very slow moves, larger than average hitbox, etc... but Kazuya is an honest, poking character with no gimmicks at all. Right

[@awaisakram8573]

Platinum_ Eye_935 he actually says Marduk is fine Lmaoo . He ranted about Marduk having crazy damage in his pay to win rant but all of a sudden since he’s maining Marduk he becomes fair . Biasedmanswe , I never take a word from that man .

[@whatdatdogdo]

@@awaisakram8573 he did just post a vid about how marduk is somewhat cheap or in his words "lets him beat better players". Just saying people can change their opinions, not everything is written in stone.

[@seiryu265]

From the way I see it, every region has he's own type of players, which is what I like about fighting games: every player has he's own style of playing. I thought it should've been obvious. Like, I never seen someone using Yoshimitsu the way Eyemusician do, and Kane and Trench use Yoshimitsu in another way.

[@BandaiSCUM]

Kane and trench plays with hood fundamentals. Eyemusician parties and he's from Korea. What a twist.

[@IAMOP]

People don't seem to realize how hard it is to travel.

[@skeletor1177]

I AM OP what are you talking about

[@multivact3729]

yea especially if you are from europe..

[@jackyv626]

If someone from pakistan with visa issue can don't make excuses

[@sadomi6657]

Yeah that's why a pakistani with visa issues won evo in usa and japan

[@onbekendonbekenedd537]

Who asked you for something gtfo

[@SkogsAelgen]

Solid good video. Only ever hear bad talk about our region so this was appreciated, thanks.

[@K-Wiss]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@jamielong1237]

I've said it before, if Sephiblack travelled more and stopped playing Miguel, he'd be one of the best players in the world. His punishment and placing of moves is up there with the best. TMM himself has been torn apart by Mihawk's Heihachi countless times with simple movement into punishment, so I don't know where he's getting this "lack of movement" bs from. He should've just said he doesn't think EU players are as good. Bringing up fundamentals just showed he was clutching at straws to make up an argument that suited his point.

[@bluigimercury]

I remember subbing, and K-Wiss was still at 1.9K and challenging TMM during the whole 'I'm not in the mood to play a Hwoarang' story arc. And now we're here. I see that 10K. Shout out👌💪💪

[@MrOzzification]

Member when Ghirlanda won the 2018 LCQ from the loser's side over Double? Member when EU defended 2 TWT majors from Koreans well before the US defend one? Member when Gajda (a Jin player with only 2 fingers) came close to beating Qudans? How about when DanielMado placed 3rd in a stacked Japanese dojo event beating Gen, Kouki & Yuu? Sephiblack beating JDCR, Kane&Trench beating Jeondding & Pekos, Kalak beating LowHigh, Gosain beating CBM. The list could go on & on. There's definitely solid talent in the EU region. Its such a really weird stance for someone like TMM to just shit on the whole region like that instead of helping the scene to grow, using his big platform to shine a light on upcoming players to help them get recognition etc. Being a positive force for the scene where he's from rather than a negative one. Also keep in mind that TMM is largely an online player. He doesn't participate in EU TWT majors. So he's making (very generalised) claims based off what he sees online which is a completely different ball-game to offline & tournament play.

[@supersaudisiraj3462]

US is quality over quantity

[@ibrushmyteethbeforeieatass1329]

If you're saying eu has more good players while us has better good players then I agree

[@Pervy]

I mean look at the size of the regions lol....EU is a bunch of countries.

[@arthur4633]

I don't take issue in someone saying that EU is arguably one of the weaker scenes in terms of results and huge wins. I do however take issue with someone claiming that top EU players like Kane or Fergus or whoever else lack fundamentals?? Top EU players are still top players for a reason. They generally do understand the game on a fundamental level and are able to beat other top players for this reason, and as you say the results and footage is there to see. At VSF I saw players like Fergus and Dinosaur go toe to toe with Korean and Japanese legends in top 8 with my own eyes live, and it wasn't free at all. It was top level play. Fundamentals. Very silly thing for TMM to say.

[@Silvers_7]

He did apologize about saying Kane lacks fundamentals, and mentioned that he is probably the most fundamental yoshi player. He supposedly wasn't thinking about what he was saying since it was just a stream, and not a yt video where he puts thought into what he says before uploading it. He also said that If Korea/Pak/Japan were 10/10, America would be a 9.5 and EU would be 9, its not really 'free' either, but yeah.

[@CGoody564]

He was speaking generally, and he wasn't wrong about a lot of the characters having built in defense within their offense. I mean, I could mention a lot of EU players with good fundamentals and movement, and fergus would be one of them; that doesn't make his general sentiment false, especially considering he was comparing them to the top players in other regions.

[@alexnostalgix]

Love the insight on the UK scene and how strong they are within the universe of tekken competition.

[@Caio-vb7vw]

Its hard to define that X region is the weakest when clearly most of the regions have players that stand out, but tmm just saying, out of nowhere, these things is really bad, especially because some part of the people that follow him. And that part about region "locked", like having a bigger focus on certain countries, it just sucks honestly.

[@itbliketht9954]

This episode was sponsored by bed Arizona tea😌

[@K-Wiss]

Can you guys stop noticing my Arizona please? 😂

[@yocelestia]

very restrained and mature response to a very immature guy

[@smudgetk7178]

I agree, I think the skill across the board is stronger in EU than in America, but they have better top players. Thanks for standing up for our scene. The EU is a fantastically diverse scene that deserves its place within the professional Tekken stage. Yes the Asian players are mega, and the top American players are amazing too, but our scene here in Europe is very skilled.

[@luciferverone]

When it comes to online ranked, seein EU general ranked matches at high level or rather any level you can clearly see the difference. You play ranked in asia and ohh boi are people a step above EU players, they move more, they punish more, they press more buttons and dont let you take a rest and so on. TBH if an average player like me who is stuck is yellow ranks and went to EU online to play, im fairly certain i can atleast get to overlord maybe even higher.

[@ShiftingCloudsYT]

I feel like you could go to a higher rank if you play in a different region WITHIN the US. I played at home based on Philly area on my bro’s account and quickly reached red ranks Byakko. I struggled to do it in the Harrisburg area for some reason and I played the same char. So I think that’s not really that reliable of a metric. But I get what you are saying though.

[@07citychamp]

When I get a EU player in ranked I'm pretty pleased, free points more often than not. That's all personal experience though, doesn't amount to much.

[@denis8906]

im in eu and every now and then i play against ppl from the us and i usually win, but its a 3 bar connection so

[@TheNightofWalpurgis666]

TMM living rent free in Tekken players mind again.

[@supersaudisiraj3462]

When he said that the EU is very aggressive and unga, he meant that they are more aggressive and unga compared to the US, KOR, PAK, and JP

[@5izzy557]

Oh, we all know what he meant & didn't? How about ask him?

[@K-Wiss]

The comments about aggression and randomness were made in isolation and not related to any other scene but I still find your interpretation to be incorrect when compared to the American scene

[@grantgarbour]

@@K-Wiss I am pretty unga, I cannot deny 😈

[@ibrushmyteethbeforeieatass1329]

The US is VERY unga so I wouldnt say that

[@ShadowedAgony]

But he also name dropped though.

[@GenLiu]

That's a very basic statement is making here. First of all, he's confusing "level" and "commitement". There's more players deeply invested in the game coming from the US Japan or Korea and as a result, there's a wider player base which increases the chances to see an "over the top" player showing up in those regions. Level is an entirely different topic though. It's more about individuals. There's good and bad players everywhere and once you reach a certain level, every player stand a chance on the tournament scene (this point has been proven millions of times in many, many tournaments throughout history), you can't make a statement as basic as "peoples from this country all suck or are all amazing". It doesn't make sense. Players win tournaments, not countries or continents.

[@maddog788]

my head started hurting because of this discussion but now i read your comment and my faith in humanity is restored. thank you.

[@Z28Gaming]

Well put.

[@bobo_gemini3008]

...tmm....i think that he needs to participate in more tourney to Say that....online tekken IS not the best way to judge players cause believe me if i judged the EUscene only with online tekken of course it would be a mess...there are awesome eu players....anyway this IS m'y OPINION if you're not agree feel free to Say it

[@K-Wiss]

I kind of agree, maybe his experience is skewed based on what he plays online all the time but I can only speculate

[@bobo_gemini3008]

@@K-Wiss yup that's why i said imo anyway nice video it Was very interesting to talk about that

[@kotoyogashi3260]

@@K-Wiss you should do more real tournaments instead of the online ones you play. maybe you'd have a better perspective on tournament competition yourself

[@K-Wiss]

@@kotoyogashi3260 It's almost as if there's some kind of massive global pandemic preventing me from competing in offline tournaments and I have nothing to prove to people like you because my record of multiple Top 16s and Top 8s at Challenger and Master level events speaks for itself

[@kotoyogashi3260]

@@K-Wiss if your not trying to prove anything why did you just spit out a bunch of meaningless facts?

[@elliotsmith567]

EU and US suffer from their sprawling size. Japan, Pakistan, and South Korea benefit from a small consolidated country that can much more easily get their players together and play offline. These countries also have a single language and culture, and that is something that isn't the case in the EU. The US at least has a semi-unified culture, but the scenes are spread way the hell out. From coast to coast, from North to south. I'm east coast, if I were good enough, I could probably make trips here and there to Atlanta. I'm only 4 hours away. However, Cali and NY are too far to be reasonable with work and general life stopping that. Same case in the EU. UK players meeting up weekly in Germany? Or Italy? That's a lot of work and time to devote, and probably a logistical nightmare. All this probably adds up to mean the US and EU are much more driven in the Online environment, and things that work online don't necessarily translate to offline, as we all know. You can't look at these scenes in a vacuum and critique and not look at what the causes may be. The sheer sizes the countries/continents have a tremendous effect on the scenes within them. Netcode changes may have a positive effect on US and EU. Here is hoping.

[@thenightman9189]

EU isn't a country though, we don't class Korea, Japan and Pakistan as the "Asian" scene, even though they are all collectively from Asia. Their individual countries are acknowledged as their own scene. The problem in EU is no individual country has a scene good enough to compete (at the highest level). In theory a country from the EU could appear out of nowhere like Pakistan did, but it hasn't happened yet. I can see the size of the US being a problem for you guys though, that makes a lot of sense.

[@elliotsmith567]

@@thenightman9189 yeah, I tried to clarify that EU isn't a country at the bottom when I said "country/continent." That's my bad for not doing it every time I said country. Should have proof read a bit more. Also, let's not forget that Japan and Korea had an Arcade scene with access to the game a whole 2 years earlier than most players in the EU/US. That is also a factor. Those arcades were a giant gathering location. Most US towns/cities dont have anything like it.

[@thenightman9189]

@@elliotsmith567 You're good, you didn't need to proof read it, I wasn't trying to call you out on EU being a continent. It's just a bit strange that the EU is grouped together as one region when everyone else is grouped by country, I think that's the problem. Say SuperAkouma is the best EU player, I'm not French, I don't want the French to win ( no offence France ) I want a UK player to win. The arcades are a big deal as well, I don't know of any arcades here either. The gatherings at arcades seem to be a good cultural advantage for the places that use them.

[@elliotsmith567]

@@thenightman9189 Ah, I see what you are saying. Yeah, that was part of my point too. The EU is just a horse of a different color. The US is less different than Pakistan or Korea, but it's sheer size and where the best players are makes things difficult. Yeah, the arcades make a huge difference imho. Offline, many machines to accommodate many players, and everyone knows or can easily find out where the scene is going to be. In my area we have to get together at a friend's house and take turns. Which means our scene is tiny, we don't get a lot of the matchups from an offline perspective, and large amounts of down time between sessions because we share a system/TV. It stinks lol

[@saxysen]

A little off-topic but, I do find EU Tournaments way more interesting. It really does come down to the matchups and some guys only win because they were able to avoid a lower rank player who has their number. Sometimes I don’t even watch the beginning of the tourneys here in America because you can kind of just pencil in the last few matches once you see the bracket. I’m not sure how what I noticed could attest to fundamentals in anyway but, I personally don’t see a huge gap in fundamentals between any of the regions. Now, I do see an aggression gap *looking at my fellow Americans*

[@YOLO22272]

Unist music in the background 😤🔥 Does @K-Wiss also stream it?

[@smug5514]

man, another very enjoyable yet insightful video from our boy K-Wiss

[@maycyam]

There’s plenty of aggressive players over here in the US also. I’m sure they’re everywhere Tekken is played.

[@EXDPresso]

Went the extra mile to get the tournament matches you were talking about! Very nice 🙂 great video and appreciate you for backing up EU 🤩

[@MadaraUchiha-ty4rh]

Valid points, but mainly I like that you stood up and spoke against TMM in particular. I like him but imo his head has expanded quite a bit since he gained more popularity and he just throws out some bizarre shit from time to time.

[@ibrushmyteethbeforeieatass1329]

Hes always said stuff like that it's just now hes THE biggest tekken creator now

[@MadaraUchiha-ty4rh]

@@ibrushmyteethbeforeieatass1329 what about his followers? Seems like he doesn't care much about them because he's got so many now. For example, banning or timing out for very little reason. I've seen it happen on twitch, like a TINY reason

[@ibrushmyteethbeforeieatass1329]

@@MadaraUchiha-ty4rh I feel like it's because of how they come across with their rejections, they probably make it seem like he's stupid instead of trying to say something like they get or don't get where hes coming from with his statements. but I dont watch tmm I just assume that from how ppl try to "discuss" in general

[@SankofaNYC]

TMM can be a pretty aggressive player himself at times so it's makes sense that he would say that... But almost everything else I would agree with him... As someone in the US, i wouldn't argue with anyone saying players in Asia are better, cause you know, they are 🤷🏾‍♂️... And equally I think it's fair to say that generally the US has better players than EU but it is definitely closer... But I also understand that it's kind of a discouraging statement to make cause everyone has a chance and there are very good players in the EU... I think TMM actually has a pretty character bias... So in this video you are highlighting Yoshi and MasterRaven players, and as far as I can tell he has minimal respect for those characters, period... Also I think there's a thing of people in the US and EU praising, shitting on, or just generally viewing each other in a competitive lens and I wish it would stop cause despite our similarities, we are two very different places... Starting with, one is a collection of different countries, and one is a mass country in which most people never even leave their own region

[@lurgy5177]

Love how you talk abot this matter, valid arguments no beefs and dramas. Great discussion, K-Wiss indeed is a K-ool guy and Wise person. Cheers

[@Roflo13east]

I'll admit, coming from a pretty uneducated place, it does feel like the EU scene is somehow behind the US when it comes to its tekken scene, though I really can't place why exactly. I'm not sure if historically the US may have just had a better arcade scene to foster FGC culture (from experience I've literally never seen a tekken machine in my like in the UK, and maybe like 1 MK2 machine that wasn't even in an arcade) or if it is just that tekken Internet and social media just seems to gloss over the region. EU players will be able to name US players, but I highly doubt it the other way round. I think as well our 'e sports' culture in the EU has been more focused on titles like Counter Strike so sponsorship wise to get player out there it's in those genres where the money is. Is is all not counting the logistical problems of language barriers, country boarders, and travel difficulties the EU scene as a whole will face. Though I feel as if this argument can't be used as a catch all as there isn't anything to stop an individual EU country from 'breaking out' so to speak. The UK is comparative in size to Japan and yet the gulf there feels noticeable. Again at the end of the day I'm not a pro or particularly knowledgeable, but I think the perspective of the average tekken player is useful too. I know I spent time trying to look for a good EU king player and it was only until you're match with schrodingre that I found him; still wish I could find a solid UK king though to root for.

[@migel_zhen4050]

Well... I have high hope for the EU players now And looking forward to see more amazing EU players in competitive scene...

[@AcidLite]

Very well said in your return debate. That is deep that Jopelix never got any stream time. I didn't know he was EU. I was at the Evo and I remember watching looking at smash gg brackets and watching liquid gen lol.

[@CoviYello]

There's a lot of good players in many different regions in the world, but travel is so expensive that not many can do it.

[@tede4304]

Let's get KWISS to 10k!

[@kami_shinigami_]

Who invoked the EU Saga the Pakistan scene was nothing until u see what behind . And you right the EU don't get the enough exposure.

[@jackyv626]

Pakistan scene was nothing until someone from pakistan (arslan) beat anyone, became a champion then said there's more good player like him and that pakistan have a good offline scene, until someone frome eu did the same they're not getting exposure and from my knowledge offline scene (stuff like arcade) is basically nonexistant in eu

[@SwarmDOTA2]

I like tmm especially his combo damage maximization, but he doesn’t get to say that when he himself never ducks the easiest high-ending strings, rarely punish correctly, and launcher spamming one dimensional playstyle after playing for 17+ years. Never in my life have i seen tmm chickened a parry that even aris can do. Kwiss chickens tho...juicy

[@SwarmDOTA2]

Try spamming AK’s b2,1,2,1 or alisa ws1,2,3. TMM will almost always just stand blocking the whole string not ducking. These strings has no mixup apart from not finishing the string. The only launch punish he’ll do is to probably lars uf3, and akuma/eliza shoryuken. The rest will most likely 1,1,2 punish at most. Just disrespect his wavedash with a hopkick he aint punishing it either way. Trust me i watch a lot of TMM just yesterday i watched his marduk weakness explanation. That, to me, tmm himself is lacking in fundementals and should just focus on entertaining the masses. Dont mess with people who dedicate their time labbing and trying hard to beat their competitors.

[@FGirao]

Being critic of something doesnt mean you arent crictisizing yourself... Its not a matter of hopocrisy, because hes not the best player in EU, so you shouldnt make him as a parameter

[@maddog788]

oh shit real talk *mirror breaking*... i dropped mishima's because i thought "man i can't electric like tmm" so i invested all my time into steve and became a much better player than i would be practicing electrics for 8 hours a day... i think tmm had the same issue troughout his life - wasting too much time on too hard shit not getting better in general.

[@clubnightparade]

Bro please let's get a us vs eu going!! Jimmy, speedkicks, joeyfury, Anakin, shadow, or maybe some mysterious final boss vs a selected top few from the eu. It would be dope ✊✊

[@K-Wiss]

Love for this kind of thing to happen after Covid

[@kotoyogashi3260]

You should keep doing this mainman thing. Its getting way more views then you originally would

[@K-Wiss]

I predicted a stupid comment like this. I have no problem getting views, this was just an interesting discussion topic

[@kotoyogashi3260]

Why would you call my comment stupid? I wassnt trying to bash you im actually a fan of you're well (was) i was just saying stuff like this is good for views because of all the people that follow him..

[@K-Wiss]

@@kotoyogashi3260 You're clearly implying I need to use other people to get views 😪

[@kotoyogashi3260]

@@K-Wiss uhh okay man. Sorry i guess

[@xkai84]

lmao what is this 💀

[@Dalphanation]

i like how mainman talks about EU not having any movement is coming from a guy that only likes to do wavu wavu electric and barely is able to backdash. EU always gets shit talked in mutiple FG but will always shook poeple when they do better than USA at tournaments

[@K-Wiss]

I mean of all things to criticise TMM for his movement definitely isn't the one loool. I agree with your sentiment but let's keep TMM hate to a minimum ay?

[@Dalphanation]

@@K-Wiss well he likes to talk about defense and movement is part of that. whenever i see mainman play he mostly plays in an offensive way and doesnt realy use it in a defensive way. ill give it to mainman for being realy good at execution.

[@raijinxfujin7314]

I think most Of us Eu players aren’t the greatest but the small minority that are, are insanely good and have put the effort in. They could easily give other tournament players a run for their money. By the time it gets to high level tournaments, most players no matter where they’re from do know fundamentals and all round how the game actually works inside out. If he’s talking about the casual player I’d get that but then the argument there is most causal players all over are similar in that aspects.

[@isabella16939]

I think the unga bunga play-style is the reason EU top players don't perform consistently within their own region to begin with. You can't really rely on that, especially when you're well known by other players.

[@CLW1994]

People saying that US players are just as aggressive obviously haven't been to offline tournaments much,most of y'all are speaking from your online experiences which is vastly different than offline at higher level locals etc Pretty sure a few of em are EU players as well to make it worst, there's no need to go at each other like that lets keep it clean. My favorite player in EU is Sephi,big fan of his Miguel and man's been staying with him as well which is commendable.

[@axo4383]

EU LACKS LOCALS

[@frostyy136]

OOooo tmm disrespected the whole EU Tekken Scene

[@AbstractReplayer]

He just says the truth. This is something top players collectively agree on (see Wavedash Podcast)

[@Shun_Monk]

I like controversy, so I appreciate your point of view. It's nice to see a UK competitor talk about these things, it's very welcome. (Edit) Also, I think European Tekken players have gotten much better in tournaments in recent years. It just sucks that there are still no offline tournaments at this time.

[@Pervy]

EU literally has a way bigger population than NA. Of course it's going to have more competition. It just happens that NA has some superior top talents that have emerged from a smaller pool.

[@tantalizingfgc]

I think Mainman has to adapt in his mentality judging players by the characters they use 🧐 I mean, especially by mentioning KaneandTrench and Fergus...he shot himself in the foot there I also believe that the top players from the US are "better" (actually not a word I want to pick there), but the european scene is so diverse and competitive, you can't just say this certain region sucks...

[@undyingsoul3949]

TMM comes off as pretty fake to me. When he says things like this, it's just the people pleaser in him. He's just not real and fully being himself. I clearly notice he's putting up a persona.

[@CGoody564]

How is this fake? That's nonsense. Why would he think that saying a group of people lack fundamentals skills in a video game would please anyone? That's an absurd sentiment. I agree he seems generally fake, but that "hot take" has nothing to do with it; to the contrary, I found this to be one of the few times he seemed to be expressing his genuine opinion.

[@undyingsoul3949]

@@CGoody564 It's never fully clear with him. I just think he already made similar comments about the EU in the past where his followers might have agreed with him too often in the chat. It could be the case that those comments convinced him too much that people like to hear him claim such a thing. He's so damn fake! Aris is such a breath of fresh air after listening to and watching so much fakeness. But if I was streaming, I'd probably the most boring to watch. Because I really hate putting up a persona. I usually don't talk a lot while playing a game. I could add more if I was streaming, but I would never make stupid jokes or statements in order to please the masses.

[@galanoth619]

@@undyingsoul3949 if you were to actually watch multiple TMM streams you would notice he doesnt agree with many in the chat quite often and to be honest making a bold accusation like calling someone fake and not taking notice of the topic discussed just shows ignorance. let me just prefice and say there is obviously some "persona" involved in most big streamers but it has nothing to do with what TMM said.(Ironic you mention aris since its a long running gag in his streams that he is putting up an act which is totally fine and quite honestly i dont really care ive known aris since 2010 and his twitch persona since 2015 is very different from the past) nothing of of what TMM said was factually incorrect and if there were he already corrected it the other day when he replied to k wiss. also i love both guys just acknowledging the obvious skill discrepancy across continents in tekken.

[@denirobernard9745]

In my opinion of course: Fundamentals are based on the character that you play/main. I think if you main a Mishima, your outlook on fundamentals is DRASTICALLY different than if you play Xio. Lei, or Yoshi. Kazuya has no moves or stances that will allow him to just evade everything whereas Yoshi and Xio do. So maybe that's why he feels that way????

[@Danyboyx]

Well the tmms point is clear. EU does lack behind. If tops players in the us are leagues above, this means that they are definitely sparring some strong players at high level play and maybe even lower to acquire those skills. After watching his response I'll say that, K-wiss has no idea whats going on in the tekken scene. And this is coming from a guy from Pakistan who loves this game pationately.

[@slimthug166]

Hey K-wiss just a suggestion: The music you have playing while you're talking especially in your intros can make it difficult to understand what you're saying (especially when watching your videos on mobile). Your voice is very chill and quiet, which I really appreciate but sometimes it can be hard to hear what you're saying. Cheers mate!

[@awwtysm420]

I dont know whats gotten in his head to "attack" Fergus and Kaneandtrench like that. Fergus qualified for the goddamn world finals. No amount of asuka b3 and gimmicks can carry u that far without amazing fundamentals. Taking away from that achievement seems just like a big middle finger toward the European FGC and especially Fergus.

[@forevermtown]

This is weird.... you’re wilding if you think the top 20 EU players can beat the top 20 US players

[@5izzy557]

Well the problem with debates is that you can be factually correct & still lose the debate! Lol we are in trouble as a human race.

[@ShadowedAgony]

This fool TMM tryna say KaneAndTrench is carried 😂

[@GuiltyBystander8]

Its funny because Kane And Trench is one of the most fundamental based yoshi players in the world. He isn't someone that goes party mode a lot, his Yoshi is super vanilla and he plays very patient. Even Knee said it.

[@nospaace]

I love my region, we are fragmented in many countries with many cultures and styles of play but this does not make us weak. Instead of one unified scene we have dozens of different good Tekken scenes in different countries that are all working hard at leveling up. TMMs dumb comments just makes me more fired up about EU Tekken than anything else. I think what Europe really needs is a main event in the sense we need something like EVO that would really bring the entire continent together on the international stage. For example even in the last tour EU master and challenger events were still quite divided by regional participation.

[@KeeperPeace]

Thanks for pointing out the EU players almost never getting favor on the EVO stream, almost exclusively Asian countries and US top players. Or that's largely been the case in the past to my understanding.

[@yocelestia]

what does tmm know?

[@prateekpujara5742]

Just makes memes and catchy phrases and is mediocre in tekken, seeing he is playing more than 20 yrs or something. And really is never won a tournament both online and offline.

[@FiveStringC]

Lol mainman dosent research the matchup or his point gotta love it

[@gabrielbobowski7767]

I don't think the EU is free, I do feel that they are weaker than the US if we are talking about results. Giving comparisons on matches EU players have won (vs US) is important, but I think there needs to be a bigger body of work before there's a claim that they are equal to the US. Again, this doesn't exist because having the resources to travel is hard I understand that. Maybe in the future the EU will be proven to be a stronger scene than the US. I can speak on that we are NOT the best at leveling up our mid level players though, there is a big skill gap here and it shows. I think it's also important to mention that it could be a situation where after we play each other more and understand the individual styles one scene might dominate the other, there just isn't that much US vs EU matches in the record. And as far as TMM goes, I think he's falsely perpetuating a stereotype about the EU that's existed for a long time. Like you said cause its America -centric. And I think the EU should have the time to shine as any other scene. I know what it's like to have our local MD players make top 3 in american majors and not get any recognition cause we aren't SOCAL NYC or ATL.

[@edgarscottkarmacho]

I agree, we need to see less of the american tournaments and look to the other side, i would like to see more from the EU, from pakistan, maybe also alittle bit more of japanese tournaments. I dont know much about top players buti do remember that the US has.some heavy hitters

[@electricwindgodfedora3453]

eu is complaining about nina's df34 string so no wonder

[@dudelove9]

Very well spoken, subscribed

[@lifenote1943]

I mean the fact that there aren't clear dominant players shows lack of competition, you'll see this in other games like SC or LOL where you have a bunch of EU players that are all really good. But then in KR you'll have a bunch of players that are impossible to beat, and then the next bracket down theres a huuuge gap. I dont wanna explain it too much bcs I gtg, but having extremely high lvl players shows a different understanding of the game.

[@Tartersauce101]

Would love to see a Hwo specialist ft10 like K Wiss vs Speedkicks

[@Aceone0076]

Interesting topic, great content bro.

[@1994quez]

he talking past. TMM is talking now.EU has done much lately. just step it up and compete better if you felt offended

[@K-Wiss]

Oh shit you're right, EU should really step up their tournament performances during this global pandemic

[@1994quez]

K-Wiss don’t get me wrong I know the pandemic is here but people are still training and playing. Especially in Atlanta. We mask up and still play weekly. I don’t understand the excuse here.

[@K-Wiss]

@@1994quez You've missed the point but whatever

[@1994quez]

K-Wiss I agree with majority of what you said. No disrespect just putting a small point out there.

[@dabossdafly]

I would love to see someone do a big ass list of placings for each region. Probably be an hour long vid at least.

[@thomasmouzon-keen124]

I think to take it as if that makes you a bad player is to think about it too much. Tekken is made by players playing how they will, and that alone should be reason enough to not take issue. If the aggressive play style works but you want to make the excuse it wouldn't work in tournament thats just minimizing an argument rather then taking a stance on someone's skill. I dont think the stats matter as much as the matches do and tekken is so interesting that a god like player can lose a game and even if he is a storied legend he is a loser right there. There is opinions and playing the game and I'm not saying opinions have no place but to worry so much about a general statement which with perspective could be true is silly. Just take it in and prove it wrong, which to me is what tekken is all about. This also isn't meant to be hateful I've been ghost watching you for a while and I've decided to sub bc I enjoy your attitude.

[@Chooooseeeenone]

ok maybe that DBP clip isn't the best one to use lmao but I do agree with what you're saying

[@yoban360]

You EU players ain’t ready for that smoke with U.S players! But respect to mainman, kingjae, kwiss though!

[@jasonkennedy6844]

Ah, again with that generalizing from TMM. Complaining about aggresiveness when he thinks highly of Boa who never stops pressing buttons (still a great player). And just because Asuka or Eddy have quite a bit of evasion it doesn't mean you don't need defense or fundamentals with them. That is just stupid. Different characters have different strengths. This is like saying that with Heihachi you don't need defense because of his oppresive moves and frames. And it seems even then he makes his mind as soon as he sees what character somebody plays. If you play character he finds easy or something you are simply not that good of a player.

[@zangana3052]

%100 agree.

[@ConfessorCromwell444]

man fully exposed maru for being a masherrrrr

[@maddog788]

"we're not some random hopkick region ok?" fkin true dude give us some stage time guys and we'll show u

[@bartek06xd33]

bruh , if more good players born in US then US will be better we must remember , its still only people . all regions have the same strategy , BUT we decide how we play charaters

[@incognito_donut]

Why was the South African dojo an EU region? We half across the world from Europe!

[@K-Wiss]

No idea

[@thelrproject257]

Because people stay not putting respect on the African continent

[@BBK187]

I agree with kwiss but it doesn't change the fact the EU is the weakest region 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ScorchedEclipse]

i kinda feel bad sometimes for mainman. yes he's a good player and has a big following but sometimes his opinions (and sometimes the way he voices them) just gets taken the wrong way by a lot of people most the time. i remember absolutely hating him before believing that he was a big part to why so many people were like super toxic towards Ling players, but now looking back at it, it really is just someone frustrated with Ling (understandable, i play her and i have no idea how to play against her)

[@ArtySh00t]

I love your tarantula hair

[@aaronjulius9148]

What? Tf does that mean?

[@ArtySh00t]

@@aaronjulius9148 Look, his rastas are like tarantulas legs. They even have the little orange strips xdd

[@nxscythelynz]

10:34 cmon my dudes, why are you taking random twitch chat seriously

[@K-Wiss]

I'm not taking it seriously, I just used it as an example to show that a lot of Anti-EU sentiments are completely unfounded

[@thenrik]

Enjoy the Arizona fam

[@IceManD3]

I like TMM, but he says alot of claims that are completely baseless. This causes his fans to adopt those baseless claims.

[@jonathantorres5037]

I kind of agree with you but I just can't get behind your statement saying that there are no European players in top 8 in other places because they're all in Europe. Well Pakistanis and Koreans travel to America so why can't Europeans do the same ?

[@jonathantorres5037]

And if that's the excuse as to why they aren't in top 8 then it's pretty weak that's like saying I don't go to tournaments but and make top 8 in my own house so I must be good everywhere else I just don't feel like traveling.

[@K-Wiss]

It's expensive to travel to America lol. The top Pakistani and Korean players will normally have top tier sponsors to pay for their travel, I thought this was obvious. Also Americans have less of an incentive to travel off continent because they have more events overall and their tournaments are seen with a "higher status".

[@olishonick]

Exactly. Its expensive to fly a lot of places so just seems like excuses to me. Outside of European tournaments, I don't even hear about most of their players except SuperAkuma and Ryan Heart. That's not to say they have no top tier players but overall they haven't proved they aren't the weakest region in T7 at least. Be cool to see a Euro player in top 8 at Evo Japan or America when we can have inhouse tournaments again. If you wanna change the world's perception of your region gotta level up ya'lls game somehow.

[@olishonick]

@@dante2k26 Of course not but if the strongest players really wanna prove they aren't as weak as everyone says they are save up some money and just go to Evo. Shit get creative and raise money from their own scene to send a few of the strongest people. Actions not words!

[@1Diddums]

Quality reminder that TMM's Twitch chat is a bible of ScrubQuotes.

[@Bajancheese90]

The man struggles against scrubby tactics online and can’t fight his way out of a wet paperbag in the offline tournament scene and has the nerve to talk about the EU scene . I’ve been saying for years this man shouldn’t be leading anyone 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@prateekpujara5742]

Obviously he is mediocre at best.

[@hugobuitendijk8653]

What is the name of the music on 0:56?

[@frostyy136]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJ64aoCOnp6IsJI

[@okarin12]

I really wish you london man showed up against the NY man. Yeah the connection sucks but “some peeps didn’t take it seriously” is a sad excuse that doesn’t hold up (atleast you and sync didn’t troll). Need that run back cos I think England is slept on and EU tekken is underrated. NA tekken mostly carried by Anakin tbh.

[@adamseptian6922]

To prove whos right, i want to see the rematch Kwiss against TMM, who wins than he is right

[@prateekpujara5742]

If K-wiss played it concentrating, I believe TMM is not gonna win 1 set. And will back to spamming hellsweeps and dorya.

[@sakeworld5809]

There’s a lot of good players from each region, can we just leave it at that?

[@zandler815]

Lol tmm just likes to talk without thinking.

[@Theterminato2013]

What’s I call talking based on instinct instead of thinking.

[@sickwicked6640]

Only one question Koreans travel to America to compete but EU won't ? Why ?

[@K-Wiss]

It's expensive lol. Top Asian players that travel a lot normally have top tier sponsors which is why you see them at almost every big event. Also I mentioned in the video that US players aren't travelling to EU in droves as well, why should it be one-sided?

[@TheSellot]

Because Koreans have better sponsorships, its quite clear that being a professional gamer is more accepted than in the EU leading to better sponsorships more willing to have their players travel across the world to represent them. Where as in EU we dont get these kinds of sponsorships.

[@sickwicked6640]

@@K-Wiss cool man thanks for the response

[@sickwicked6640]

@@TheSellot thanks for the response !

[@VulcanBaum687]

@@K-Wiss Honest question. Why is it that EU players don't get the same sponsors?

[@AngryTxicChaobla]

Who cares about some mediocre mishima players opinion, the dude is an entertainer not a professional

[@waveyeddz]

What’s in those cans on the bed 😂 😂😂

[@K-Wiss]

LEAVE MY ARIZONA ALONE!!! 😂

[@enigmasdestiny1355]

Can we acknowledge the case of Arizona in the background though?

[@theycallmechou5396]

Alternate Title: Eu Player Defends his community from BadMainman

[@Sk8nRock]

TMM making dumb statements? Who would have thought.

[@Agent.--.007]

Now i want to see a ft-10 between you and mainman!

[@boltskeystone4045]

Different regions play different doesn't matter where. Even here in the US east coast and west coast have different play styles. So saying that EU is trash is a subjective thing to say. IMO anyone can't beat anyone.

[@Stormbreaker_tk]

I think every person has his own style

[@jaudat17]

Here’s the thing, EU is not consistent at all. One of the EU players might beat a korean/American player 1 day but he will lose for the next 4 days. Like i HIGHLY doubt kaneandtrench would be able to beat knee or lowhigh if he were to play them again.

[@K-Wiss]

I'm struggling to see your point. Very few players on the planet can manage to be consistent in tournament and you happened to mention two that can be because they are the best players in the world. Like, what are you even basing this on? (Also, Kane is one of the most consistent players in EU. His worst performance at Challenger events last year was 2nd place only losing close sets to Asim and Lowhigh)

[@jaudat17]

K-Wiss im basing this on my own observation. Some of my fav Tekken players are from the EU just fyi. Lets take Super Akuma for instance, the best EU player. hes my fav EU player as well and ive watched every tournament hes been in since season 1. He will sometimes make it into top8, sometimes not even top16 and once in a while, he’ll win a stacked master event level tournament. On the other hand, you will ALWAYS see the usual players in US/Korean and pakistani tournaments. They will 100% maintain their level. You will never see chanel place below top 16 for example (maybe once in a blue moon but you get my point).

[@K-Wiss]

@@jaudat17 Like I mentioned in the video, EU is just a hyper competitive region where anyone can beat anyone at any given time.

[@exodia275]

@@K-Wiss that literally means rhey are inconsistent

[@Kopi-rx3tv]

music?

[@4yahwey275]

Here we go tmm and his toxic chat 🤦🏿‍♂️

[@supersaudisiraj3462]

The loud minority are toxic

[@K-Wiss]

That's a bit of a generalisation, most of his chat are fine. I just had a few people to pull out here

[@5izzy557]

@@K-Wiss I'm a main man fan, & found yourself through him, so I can safely say you're correct.(I do agree with your vid) but i don't all of a sudden dislike tmm its like it's OK to have an opinion ;-)(love you man)

[@K-Wiss]

@@5izzy557 I'm hoping I got that across in the video, it's okay to disagree with people's opinions and you don't suddenly hate them lol.

[@5izzy557]

@@K-Wiss You did, unless the person watching is a little slow.