The Shocking Reality of Ranked Mode in Tekken 8 pre v1.08 patch

[@TrickyEileen]

due to popopular demand. Here's a link to the green screen version of the "this is atrocious" . Please use irresponsibly. playlist of versions kzbin.info/aero/PLMYO0hTvc3gMMjRHKoc41hgXTK0I_7Wiw

[@sethandrews401]

First video I’ve ever watched subbing for sure

[@TrickyEileen]

Song list in order in description

[@TrickyEileen]

@@sethandrews401 thnx and welcome

[@braindeadbrick553]

aint nobody picking up this horrible 200 moves on 1 char essay of 20 years game ofc there wont be new players

[@PhiDX]

What an intro 😂🔥 I'm a stats scrub so this is super helpful

[@TrickyEileen]

I got your back if you ever want a stats crash course. lol 😆 glad you liked it. There is always space for a guest anchor ⚓️, just throwing it out there

[@CymroMawr]

Collab? 👀

[@ccpIz]

Yep, imma need more Tricky Weather Forecasts because this format is phenomenal and Tekken’s temperature is out of wack

[@TrickyEileen]

😂I have like 3 older ones. Glad you enjoy them!

[@TrickyEileen]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5DZdKWkfJlofbcsi=lRcfn_1Z3D182vLI but the audio was so damn bad. This one here is my best one so far imo.

[@VolTheProducer]

Im like 3 seconds into this vid and I already agree 😂

[@citrusblast4372]

It feels like a sermon

[@TrickyEileen]

@@citrusblast4372 well I am a preachers grand daughter

[@Jaynaa]

God, a green screen version of that opening "This is atrocious" would have so many potential uses.

[@TrickyEileen]

I mean I have it. . . I could release it

[@KIDCON26]

@@TrickyEileen Please do, would do platinum numbers..

[@deathonadinosaur]

Yeah I could use that meme for so many things.

[@TrickyEileen]

​@@deathonadinosaur here's two versions one with and one without music kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJC2i6WKYpqSm68 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXW8aJWVpN6GoZY

[@TrickyEileen]

@@KIDCON26 ​ here's two versions one with and one without music kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJC2i6WKYpqSm68 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXW8aJWVpN6GoZY

[@eddietheyeti123]

Good video. It's really difficult to improve when you're constantly playing people way worse/way better than you

[@TrickyEileen]

Yes this is it exactly.

[@lollaloopa]

The problem of having BOTH ranks and tekken prowess to measure player proficiency. They used to only consider ranks in matchmaking. As a result, high ranked users ranking up their lower-ranked characters became more noticeable. So people complained. The devs had a VERY easy answer at their fingertips: strengthen alt rank bonuses so lower-ranked characters (i.e. characters that you never played or played less of) would start at a higher rank than before. Maybe a 2~3 rank difference from your main. What did they do? They SPLIT THE MATCHMAKING BETWEEN SIMILAR TEKKEN PROWESSES. The problem? You split each rank into several matchmaking pools. For example, you have 100000~ mmr pools, 150000~mmr pools, and 200000~ pools IN THE SAME BLUE RANKS. Why is this a problem? Well, 1. Splitting your playerbase severely breaks matchmaking. Suppose I'm a blue rank player, and have 3000 people with characters that are at the same skill level as me. This system makes it so that 1000 of them are stuck at ruler ranks than me due to them having a higher tekken prowess, and I'm left with god knows how many after excluding people in different regions. 2. The Tekken prowess system is trash. Most of what it does, is it compiles the ranks of every character you have, and apply different weights according to how high their ranks are. This is good, since it means the player with two blue ranked character doesn't get double the tekken prowess of someone with one blue ranked character, but more ranks=/=better player. There are some benefits to playing multiple characters, but at the end of the day, your rank is how good you play that character. If I play worse than the average, I rank down. if I play better, I rank up. Having ten more blue ranks doesn't mean jack if I can't beat fellow blue ranked players. The problem? If you level up multiple characters, you are raised to a higher matching pool than your actual skill level. Suppose that I'm a blue rank player with 10, 15, 20 alt characters that I play. That would inflate my prowess to ~Tekken God level players, and the result? I get matched with Tekken Emperor~Tekken God alt characters 80% of the time. I get obliterated. Then I'm stuck at ruler ranks with ~80% of my prowess left, and I wait for 5~10 minutes every match to meet SOMEONE at ruler ranks with similar prowess as me. The tekken prowess system is trash, but it didn't matter since they weren't used in matchmaking. Now that they ARE used, it destroyed the matchmaking system. I still don't understand how they thought this was a good idea. Thank you for this video, feels like something was lifted from my chest.

[@TrickyEileen]

yeah and like it would maybe work if you could meaningfully lose prowess when losing games but it pretty much is a perma buff to your MMR

[@fredericksacramento677]

​@TrickyEileen this is also the same problem with other games for example in moblie games or other game you play is that the difference between someone who does push rank and not even trying to challenge against high ranked or people just boosting their way and lying to the rank claims like i am in purple rank and when i played against my brother who is also at flame ruler i felt like hes more better than me in terms of skills. To add to insult to injury is that players who use we called the help friend need just makes the lower rank benefit them to rank higher where the guy who is carrying them dont even benefit their losses which is a losse to him since he dosent take a challenge to face better opponents.

[@jrreplays77]

This is why I take a 1-2 month break whenever I rank up 1-2 spots. I play quick/player matches to get comfortable fighting “similar” ranked folks before I jump back in. The skill jumps are wild sometimes

[@Vulpesune]

I've been considering doing just this. Just made it to Tekken King and got an almost 50,000 prowess jump. Faced Tekken Gods and got my butt beat over and over.

[@ImCaliFresh]

This is precisely what I do. Makes the eventual ranked play less stressful imo

[@PITBOSS_]

Same. Gives me some room to improve and adjust to better players

[@PivotDJ]

Idk man I hit battle ruler and there absolute gods hiding in quick matches lol or just refuse to play ranked. Maybe it’s just the times I play but I was playing my flame ruler only getting tekken gods and raijin match ups

[@chocobolord_]

I took a 3 months break because it felt unfun to rank even in the lower ranks, I really enjoy Tekken at a higher level. I think I will try what you did and get comfortable with matchups and playing a lot of quick/player match instead!

[@BanditRZO]

I had a promotion match against a 375k prowess fujin Eddy… mind you I was at 164k prowess. I felt so cheated. Now on my way up to raijin- one step at a time.

[@TrickyEileen]

let's just hope they fix the prowess matchmaking the same way they brought it in, silently without ever talking about it. Let us hope

[@quikdeath100]

I feel for you. I once had a demotion match as a fujin against a god of destruction. No idea why they can’t program common sense into their system

[@Sicknificant1]

What? At raijin at only like 170k prowess? My highest is Fujin and I am at 220k. I really messed myself up playing too many different characters huh? Lol...

[@chacazulo1987]

That would happen to me, but i wouldn’t rematch a dlc character, at least one i didn’t buy. You can’t take over ur character in the replay vs a dlc character. Really scummy from Namco. So one n done anytime vs dlc.

[@BanditRZO]

@@Sicknificant1 I was going from battle ruler to fujin- my prowess is now 186,614 in fujin so the raijin bump will be nice- that specific match tho, yeah that was where I was at. I only have a Jin in purples otherwise- my character rn is Asuka.

[@DJDizzy8]

Tekken's ranked system needs a complete overhaul. It needs to copy something similar to Street Fighter 6, IMO. SF6 does a decent enough job of keeping weak players away from strong players and has an elo system takeover after you reach the max rank.

[@Vanity0666]

Sf6's ranked system is great but it still has a problem with its player distribution in ranked, platinum 4-1 is such a wild variance of people who are actual killers to people who have one character gimmick that is difficult to overcome or relies on knowledge checks.

[@DJDizzy8]

@@Vanity0666 You are correct. SF6 naturally pushes people into master rank so the elo system can take over. It wants everybody in master eventually. You can get to master with a 45% win rate. You cannot get to 2000+ MR with a losing win rate. So once you do hit master, the real filter begins. In a vacuum, I don't mind it.

[@Mrbookworm-k4v]

@@DJDizzy8 yeah the ranked match one is good, casual match making one is garbage sf fan here

[@MachinimaNinja]

Yeah ngl I'm hard stuck in the fujin bracket because I'm either fighting god rank alts or I'm absolutely stomping poor purple ranked players who have no idea what's going on.

[@vontecontroll1556]

Dont forget the multiple shiryu'd in a row for no reason

[@GreenwayOo]

fujin is just one rank above poor purple lol

[@omegaweapon116]

Blue ranks are so hard to get out of lol, took me forever. Gets a lot harder once you get to Kishin and Bushin

[@gregi696]

I definitely hit a wall at Garyu. Been ping ponging back and forth between Garyu and Eliminator. Currently on my longest run in Garyu, but sometimes it feels like I'm just getting fed to better players.

[@jazzoj5]

Just made Fujin yesterday, but I was hard stuck at Garyu for the longest time, it's the first big wall a lot of players encounter, just keep at it and you will eventually get comfortable in red ranks, the skill gap between them and purple isn't as bad as that first jump from orange to red.

[@Kate-356]

Keep at it! I was stuck at Garyu for almost a month, it was an amazing feeling once I hit Tenryu. You will get there too!

[@BlackStar300]

Same I'm in garyu and bounce as well. I know im not the best but it is frustrating. I need to better defense for sure. I lab, but it don't stick. I think I'm just gonna play and try to level up my skill but playing and playing

[@TheScepter25]

Going through that right now. I keep getting put against players with 200k prowess and a lot of blue ranks. It doesn’t help that you lose more against people who are a higher rank than you. Thankfully the next patch changes this and hopefully we both get past this wall.

[@evanwesley387]

@@BlackStar300 practice makes perfect bro! just keep at it

[@SlimeGoneWrong]

I’m currently a 275k prowess Tekken god solely playing Jun but then I went to play a second character and see how it felt to play in blue again I found matches in blue were a lot of GoDs on a second character making games as sweaty as my main and when I find someone who’s a real purple I feel so bad for them cuz they get whooped cuz the huge gap in skill

[@arielmadridejo]

This is sooooo true

[@Gg.giantsfan]

Hit it on the head I feel so bad one game then get humbled the next

[@kna_8910]

Oh yes. Totally true I stupidly tried to get my fujin as new patch release and faced a bunch of Tekken kings/ bushins trying the new character. Persisted and got it though 🤙

[@gabrielcedeno1290]

5:02 that was unbelievably the most gangsta realest gang response you could've said

[@otherGuise]

I started Tekken 8 last week. Did the usual look up a guide for my character, put about 20 hours in the practice room, then jumped into ranked. The issue I noticed in the beginner ranked were six figure (or 80k+) prowess and full S+ players being matched to me about 80% of the time (tracked my own metrics). My ranked filter is +-2. I've been told at beginner ranks prowess and all that doesn't matter, but (s+ XXX,XXX prowess) players consistently full combo, do not miss punishes and constantly deconstruct my playstyle. Explanations given have been "all players have to rank up and tekken has lots of knowledge and a high skill player base", but that was 7 months ago when the game came out they should have moved on to higher ranks, right? On matches not against S+ high prowess opponents I have about a 60% win rate. That'd be fine if those were my primary opponents, but they're not. This has made ranking up very slow and honestly it's making the game boring. To further discourage me I disabled the rank filter, got matched back against 2 warrior ranks, and won 3 to 0 each time; they both opted not to fight again. Contrasting this with the +-2 filter is a little abysmal. Crawled my way up to ranger yesterday and my current strategy is to just take an L if their prowess is over 80k or they have all S+ stats. Save my energy for matches I can actually win. The other players tend to get upset when I let them win, but they're doing perfect frame lightening fists, Korean back dashes, and have had 7 months to not be a 0 dan. I'll keep grinding the game up, but this whole experience of being farmed at beginner levels has led me to not recommend this game to any new players.

[@jon630]

Regardless of the ranked system, Tekken is extremely rough for new players. I started late into Tekken 7, and I think it took me around 50 games to get my first win. My biggest advice is to just focus on yourself and ignore the win/loss screen. Imo the most important things to learn are figuring out how to string together a bit of pressure, identifying where your opponent likes to duck/mash, and creating/punishing whiffs. Blocking and string defense will come with time, so don't stress about knowing every string just yet. You're bound to lose every game to knowledge checks in the beginning. Thank you for your positive outlook on maintaining the grind! Don't give up!

[@bpmproductions5946]

Want to add to this.. i am emperor with 260k prowess (i main shaheen but like to play other characters too and have maybe 7 or 8 fujin-raijin characters which inflated my prowess a bit). I have been hard stuck at emperor for over 2 months. More often than not i am matched with players with 350k prowess and i get wrecked, i get demoted to king, get my rank back by fighting blue ranks with 200-230k prowess, then immediately am put back to fighting monsters at 350k+. Not only that, it will match me with the same high rank players 4 or 5 ft2s in a row. Its been the most brutal experience of any ranked game for me. On one hand i like the opportunity to play real killers, but i feel like i havent gotten any better for it. Its totally possible ive peaked/need to hit the lab more but god damn this shit sucks and i feel like im actually getting worse only fighting people higher or lower than me.

[@TrickyEileen]

See and the issue is there are tons of players who you could be fighting that are actually close to your actual skill at the game. But the matchmaking thus far just breaks at higher prowess. Whatever settings they have it on, needs to be fixed. There are tons of folks across different skills but for one reason or another , it won’t match us

[@omegaweapon116]

Damn, I just got into gold ranks and you're making me worried now lol. I hope this last update fixed that matchmaking issue

[@Karaage_]

It's rough - 1v1 elo is a solved problem, one single metric to determine matchmaking and it should be the same metric that goes up or down when you lose. If you don't have a proper bell curve on the ranked distribution then you failed. Nice video.

[@BigDaddyWes]

Well that's not exactly a perfect solution in this case since, unlike in a game like chess, not every character is the same. At some point you have to make a decision as to how someone's mastery of their entire pool of characters factors into the equation. Having the entire roster of the characters you've never played rank up to the bottom of the tier below you when you reach a new personal best rank does help with that problem, but it's still not perfect. There is no perfect catch all solution and everyone seems to oversimplify matchmaking in their heads.

[@Bankai90]

​@@BigDaddyWesye the initial state of the game was atrocious for new players, it was just convenient for longtime players and that caused a massive uproar lol I think my winrate to garyu as a tekken beginner and already sweat gamer from other games was like 27%. It was the worst gaming experience I had, just awful

[@jon630]

@@BigDaddyWes Start everyone at some starting number like 1200 or 1500. Glicko-2 or Trueskill will very quickly calibrate where you're supposed to be. Whether you start unplayed alts at your highest achieved elo, that same 1200/1500 starting point, or somewhere in between, the system will figure out where you're supposed to be within 10 or so games.

[@AzanLdn]

me watching this knowing i'll rank down tomorrow 😂😂

[@TrickyEileen]

its okay, we suffer together

[@simonclifford2143]

Right there with you, friend 😅

[@chacazulo1987]

It happens to everyone, specially getting cheesed to death, it’s like you didn’t even get to play, and that is really frustrating.

[@florianneumann9441]

Ok… thanks a lot for that video, explains a lot about me currently having such a hard time getting out of blue ranks… I haven’t reached king yet but broke through to bushin and stayed their for a while… now I am back at fujin and busting my ass to go back up. I am pretty sure my quality of play hasn’t degraded that much, so I think your theory rings true

[@TrickyEileen]

Yeah. I can say my opponents now are way stronger than the ones I faced at lower prowess at the same rank. It’s silly and not how ranks are supposed to operate lol

[@pablo.G28]

I rarely play tekken and I feel highly educated. I see how some of the statistics apply to street fighter. Interesting video yet again.

[@TrickyEileen]

Thnx. Yeah I’d like to do these for sf6 too. But I have to tear myself away from tekken to do it. Hard

[@OG_Fireflare]

The Soul Calibur Music in the last segment? Hell yeah! Great video!

[@TrickyEileen]

Yes I love maxi themes and sc3 was peak ost imo

[@toneydahtygah7661]

The crash out at 5 minutes is exactly how I felt when I went from Bujin to flame ruler

[@tmac326]

Been hard stuck in red ranks for months. Gotten 3 separate characters to Garyu (got Lidia to Shinryu a few days ago) and from that point on it’s exactly what you said, either I face players who are extremely easy to beat or I get players who are my rank or higher but yet play like they have been playing Tekken for years and can read almost everything I throw at them. Matches when I get to red ranks go something like this usually… Win, loss, loss, loss, loss, de-rank, win, win, rank up, win, loss, win, loss, loss, loss, loss, de-rank, repeat process again. There is a bit of nuance to this and it’s not exactly like this every time but it just seems impossible to get out of red. Luckily, I even got Lidia to Shinryu but guess what? Yeah, I won like two matches and got steamrolled all the way back down to Eliminator where I easily beat all players and got back to Garyu again… Now, call this a cope if you want but I work a full time job, other responsibilities and things that I need to do so I don’t have a lot of time to learn Tekken as much as I would like so I’m not the greatest player but the fact that this is the way it has been for months and that this is how it ALWAYS goes tells me that ranked is unbalanced or just completely broken. Not to mention that how much xp you get or lose based on if you win or lose is just ridiculous.

[@axellyann5085]

it is broken bro. It happen the same to me but around blue and purple ranks. Even the win-loss streak you mentioned, it's exactly the same for me. I just never went down to purple ranks because at this point true purple ranks (and fujin) are waaay behind in skill.

[@vassili3000]

Man, im exactly like you! Having a job and a family I can only play couple of hours per day and sometimes it’s super frustrating in ranked. Just yesterday I had lost to three Tenryu in a row (who were clearly deranked Mighty Ruler)! I wish I could play more people who are true Garyu like myself.

[@Brqinstorm]

Nah it's really just you coping tbh. Players that have an alt in red rank aren't far off from where you're at. You're absolutely not affected by this especially since the pool of players at red is gigantic.

[@tmac326]

@@BrqinstormYou see, you say this but yet when you compare Prowess scores, sometimes they are vastly higher than mine. Ranks should be based on Prowess in my opinion.

[@Brqinstorm]

@@tmac326 drop your tekken ID

[@Neppah]

Wish people would talk about prowess more. They say they're improving the match making but didn't mention prowess at all. An MMR system where you can't go down? Who thought this was a good idea?

[@JohnGlow2]

I have no idea how prowess is even sposed to work when I have 230k and am being matched with with people who are legit 500k+. Like the learning experience is great, but eventually the gap between players is so huge you don’t truly learn anything

[@elaxlol223]

THANK YOU!!! I thought I was tripping. I started maining Hwoarang after dropping Victor and I while I did hit Fujin and plan on hitting Tekken King I can't help the fact that I'm either playing against people that are much worse than me or much, MUCH better than me(smurfs that are TG+ rank).

[@ThatLadyAgatha]

This was my first Tekken and I'm still new to fighting games, so I decided to set a challenge for myself to learn the game. I would get all the characters to red ranks. I did this, except for Lidia. In terms of learning I think it was a good choice. But in terms of ranking up, it was a terrible choice. My prowess is higher than many blue players, so I face many Bushin and higher players while my highest characters are at Shinryu. And yet if they are playing a side character that is Destroyer rank, I work my ass off and get no points for winning. This makes it feel grueling to rank up at all. I wonder if I'd just stuck with one character, if I might've ranked up more by being more appropriately matched with people closer to my skill bracket. Could this be solved by making matchmaking based on actual rank? Great video Tricky!

[@Kenlac92]

Its interesting because while your true skill level may feel much lower, it pushes you against higher competition which is demanding more skill expression from you at an earlier time. And while you may not be totally ready for that, it does also set a precedent to learn characters using fundamentals rather than their individual knowledge checks and gimmicks. If you have the fundamentals to reach red many times over, anyone would be hard pressed to say its a fake rank.

[@omegaweapon116]

crazy thing is that if you would've stuck with one character and ranked up you might've just had all your other characters automatically rank up to red anyway

[@Kenkyou_Nogata]

Just subscribed this is so good. Been researching for a while and never really got to understand what was going on. I never played ranked past Garyu but my partners are purple-blue in T8 (We were all blue-emperor in T7). I beat them consistently 5-3, 5-2 or 5-0 in sets. But the other time I play ranked, found 2 players who were very clean. Cleaner than all of us) in Garyu with the best Devil Jin and Bryan I ever played in T8? Near perfect fundamentals, matches were always close in final round but felt like tournament sets. Meanwhile next opponent gets perfected 3-0 or 3-1 and felt beginner-like to me. That contrast is just insane.

[@DaSickness]

The mega man zero music is hitting.. so good

[@Dragun57]

Great video. I'm actually one of those hovering in orange folks but that's partially because I decided to get 50 wins with each character before deciding a main and so I hover between playing quick play until I feel like I can pilot (usually 10-20 matches) then I do ranked until I hit orange and 50 wins then back to character select. Even at my low skill level overall, it's helped me recognize when I'm piloting a character at my relative skill level (i.e. I feel like my latest character is as good as my best). The knowledge and stuff it takes to get higher will come after I finally decide a main.

[@big_guapo]

the analysis on the ranks you've made so far have been very eye opening and explains my experience a lot. I hit fujin first with Raven back in early march and by early april I had done the same with bryan after clocking about 500 hours or so at that point and at both points couldn't really explain why the game felt blatantly unfair in it's matchmaking and point distribution systems after a certain point and just thought I was getting bored and burnt out after playing so much and have given the game a break from my serious attention since then. glad to know I wasn't just going crazy and the game's matchmaking seemingly was designed to bore you after a certain point, and that I wasn't alone in my experience. I'd love to give ranked another serious go if they wanted to make it worth my time and effort.

[@atkhodier]

I’m a Raijin Law main and also have a Flame Ruler Eddie…the worst part about blue ranks is mfs always one and done you or plug you cuz it’s just so hard to get to blue ranks cuz so many ppl are hard locked in purple or red which makes it so toxic. On PSN I get messages from nasty ppl every day and I’m only a Raijin. Every time I have a promo to Kisirin it’s against a Tekken King who’s way better than me or I win but get plugged…so frustrating. Ppl are hard locked in the first rank of red purple and blue cuz they plug on demotion matches. I’ll win 3 in a row and get plus 250 and the lose IN ROUND 5 by a hair to a mf about to hit Tekken King and boom minus 1000…it’s so lame.

[@royce536]

Blue rank ain't that tough ngl

[@atkhodier]

@@royce536 okay nice opinion? What’s the point of your comment dog. Blue ranks is right before the extremely good ranks that hardly have any players…if you make it to high blue ranks you for sure have a mastery of one character and understand the game. You’re far better than most players in blue ranks lol.

[@ELFUICHE]

I believe they are making it hard to rank up because of rankflation. If most people get to the higher ranks, then there wouldn’t be any more reasons to continue playing online. The fun will be kind of lost. Ranking up satisfaction is what online play is all about.

[@CoreyWilliams-y5v]

Thank you for saying something I feel like nobody has noticed this or said anything about it I've realized this a while ago from playing quite a few characters it boosted my prowess up a lot when Eddie came out my competition completely changed

[@Dragydragster]

just ranked up to tekken king for the first time, had to come check this out. Great video format great content, glad to have found your channel

[@TrickyEileen]

Welcome aboard!

[@zhenli9101]

I realized this the first time i reached Fujin. It was more than just fighting players of a higher rank, they were a different skill caliber. I noticed it again when I reached Tekken King. It even seems to impact quick match. It's like you get moved to a different "bracket" of players once your prowess reaches a certain point. I do feel that I get matched with players who have prowess at least 100K higher than mine more than someone of equal prowess.

[@briansarchive3805]

This video makes a ton of sense considering my own experiences. I got TK once and i havent been back yet but I do find fodder in blue a lot unfortunately.

[@Sk.rrtSkrrt]

Thank you for clarifying at the start that the chart is only the highest ranked char per profile. Always got confused on these charts till now.

[@TrickyEileen]

Yeah I’ve done a few of the so wanted to address the common misconceptions asap

[@AntagonisticArtichoke]

Holy crap this explains so much I remember the day I made it to fujin then got deranked back to genryu and had the easiest climb back just to only fight people 1-2 ranks above me again.

[@GuntanksInSpace]

Quite the analysis and excellent music choices too. That really explains the weirdness of Red Rank onward lol (I'm also hard stuck on 140k-ish at the Red Ranks). Not that I care too much about grinding that one out really but just very peculiar.

[@eromoseleodionunuabona2892]

The bit about deranking around 5:30 onwards is so facts I remember when I first got to Kishin and deranked all the way down to Flame Ruler. I was like wtf HOW!!!! this time I got up to Bushin and now I'm comfortable at holding Kishin at 190,000 Prowess

[@rebelian7]

Totally going through this, hit tekken king -> fujin, changed mains and finally hit bushin again. Super demoralizing initially but also grateful bc I was pushed to improve fundamentally much more by getting my ass beat so much. Still not a sensible system overall

[@TheDimsh]

they should implement MMR after Tekken King, cause this shit is crazy, after I hit 230k I have been getting matched but nothing but GoD's and absolutely no bushins or kishins. What's worse is once you get 230k prowess it doesn't drop back to bushin prowess, but you keep getting matched with the same players in that bracket, like that's insane

[@sablephoenix4rce]

One thing I'd have loved for you touch on is how much fewer ranks there are compared to Tekken 7. On average, there are 3 titles per color; prior, it was four. There need to be additional ranks added, I believe that in addition to what they've done with prowess matchmaking would go a long way to alleviate these valid complaints.

[@Dumah36]

Bell Curve is the normal way a chart like this should work. I am not sure but the problems i think are multi tiered. You have ranks that you can't derank, then just get enough points and at the highest is based percentage of win/lose. Prestige system is also a problem. I get it because the idea i believe is "if you've gottem this far you should be X good!" To stop ppl stomping lower players but ot really doesn't work.

[@nogoodchad4473]

@5:00 pure unbiased analysis at it's peak. Love it.

[@velocity6306]

You’re walking down them blue stairs and unlock ranked 2.0 and them players send you right back up the stairs 😂🤣

[@ronnieleebriggs]

I am really glad you made this video. I thought it was just me and I was going crazy. Took forever to get to tekken king on my main. Once I finally did, I deranked back to Fujin so quickly.

[@TrickyEileen]

Glad I could help

[@Bankai90]

Tekken8 is my first Tekken and I been pretty much stuck in Fujin/Raijin. I don't mind it cause I'm well aware the difference between Raijin and Tekken King is just massive and I'm not willing to put in the work in to get there. So I'm destined to be here till T9 which imho is fine Really enjoying Tekken8, last one I played was Tekken3. Tried T7 but really didnt like it and quit within like 3h lol Having a blast with T8

[@jarynlandrum7474]

I’m at about 180k prowess. Blue Eddy and Purple Jun. I honestly don’t even want to rank up past Fujin. The difference in the 220k+ players is VAST

[@SMHETDovydas]

I feel you, as a 240k player blue rank player myself, whenever the ranked system decides to match me up with a 180k player, it's just an annihilation of the 180. The skill gap is HUGE.

[@fatalgod1231]

I'm a give you a hint. I've played a lot of yellow red blue and purple players. You would think there are large differences between the ranks but truthfully on a consistent basis these ranks cannot whiff punish a move unless it's with a launcher. These ranks do not know frames, don't do frame traps, don't know the frames of the character they are playing AS. Quite honestly, blues and purples are just more adept at landing launchers than red and yellows. Too many players are stuck because they know next to nothing about frames. Don't know when their turn is over, and don't know what to do when a player blocks their last 5 of 6 launch moves. lol

[@SMHETDovydas]

@@fatalgod1231 of course they don't. But they are figuring it out slowly however. Reds know which of their moves are plus, and purples know which of their moves are plus and minus, so they start blocking more. Blues start to figure out where the opponent is plus or minus, but they still can't select the options that will surely work. And even if they do, they sometimes react too late for it to work. But there is still a huge difference between a red rank player, and a purple rank one. To tekken kings there is not of course, but when you are a red yourself, purples seem very strong.

[@cheifwaffle]

I have 190k. Prowess matchmaking isnt always consistant. I still get ppl my prowess or as high as GoD. Just learn, play the player and the character

[@McJorneil]

Maybe they should insert challenges in each rank where they become more difficult as you progress, but they help you build your skills (like the combo challenges in practice mode), and that allows you to rank up in a way where you can more easily come across players at a similar skill level as you (because they'll have a comparative amount of challenges completed to you). So someone who's completed 30 challenges wouldn't be randomly thrown up against someone who's completed like 200 challenges. It could be things like "Counter this type of string 150 times in online matches", "Parry this character's snake edge kick 100 times in online matches", etc. Basically assign character-specific challenges that help you train against that particular character so you can then learn how to deal with them in the future battles. Idk, maybe that sounds dumb or it'd be considered too much hand holding or too much micro-management from the development side. Just throwing the idea out there.

[@deathonadinosaur]

This is my new favorite format for discussions like this. Love the weather forcast style. Much more engaging then most vidios like this.

[@TrickyEileen]

Thank! I figured what else is super boring but we like it, and I thought weather reports! And here we are

[@SekaiichiCS]

Glad i stumbled upon this video, as a 240k+ prowess player the matchmaking experience has kicked my ass. Hit tekken king and never actually faced other tekken kings, i fought GoD on their 5th character with 400K prowess, eventually i got demoted a bit to kishin and now its a guessing matchmaking, i either stomp a true blue or face another demoted gold or fight tekken gods and up on alt characters, really miserable sometimes

[@Redx_2003]

Why did I have to find this video after I hit GoD? This would’ve so much sense to me on why I was trying so hard after I hit gold ranks💀 great video explanation ❤️

[@pf3305]

Just recently got my 2nd character to Tekken King, now I’m starting the journey from Fujin with my 3rd. I try to make sure I have new tech and stronger fundamentals than before when I enter ranked, best part is my third deranked from Raijin so I have nothing to lose and more to gain. I expect a rewarding experience going for a TK hat trick

[@TrickyEileen]

That’s the perfect mentality

[@pf3305]

@@TrickyEileen the only way to see real growth and you have to be prepared to demote for it

[@denzelbryant5859]

I have to agree with this. I'm in flame ruler, and I'll fight fujins that are good, but a lot of the time, I'm trying to figure out how they made it that far

[@99biff]

This is phenomenal. I am showing this to my AP Stats class this week. No joke.

[@TrickyEileen]

Have them talk about how if you took the peaks (that are both 1 standard deviation away from the mean) and distributed them in true home of the bell curve middle portion. Then cut the remainder of the blue Fujin and put them after tekken king. You might start to see a normal curve.

[@erichthegraham]

Looking at the way T8 has been handled, and finding your channel through those really cool videos you did with Loops, kinda makes me want to play Virtua Fighter more than T8.

[@TrickyEileen]

Come to the promised land of VF

[@erichthegraham]

@@TrickyEileen you know, I think there's a Vortex Gallery tournament coming up for it soon...

[@TrickyEileen]

@@erichthegraham link?

[@TrickyEileen]

@@erichthegraham also we have pretty regular online sessions in the NA and EU regions. @akai @chanchai run them

[@erichthegraham]

​​@@TrickyEileen nov 2 I tried to post the link but it wouldn't let me...

[@xarezarcs4125]

I think a large part of it is the also the large boost when going up a rank so you dont really fall, just kinda stagnate as you lose a bunch then get a quick win and shoot back up. Also I did hit mid purple and stop playing ranked altogether. Now I just play in lobbies with friends.

[@EvilPineappl]

Spikes at the start of each rank color makes sense. A lot of people have a goal rank, but often it's a color and not an individual rank. You can look at street fighter as well. The first rank of every division but masters is the most populated of that division.

[@TrickyEileen]

Yes but they do decrease similarly across all the ranks in a linear pattern. This is different

[@El-Burrito]

I got to Garyu and pretty much quit playing. Felt like a good place to stop before I lose my mind. The peaks in the first tier of each new colour make sense to me, it makes me think of the SF6 rank distribution. I can imagine a lot of people just hitting that ranked goal and stopping. I am looking forward to the 1.08 update where they at least change how points are earned and lost against ranks higher/lower than you. I'm gonna try it out again and see if it feels any different.

[@HelterSeltzer_the_one]

Ok. I never thought about prowess vs rank before but this resonates with me so I am going to pay attention now. I have Lidia and Kuma in red ranks [about 121,000 pr]. It really is that I go against a yellow/brown OR a purple. I always thought it was weird and I did get this game since the first week.

[@Sloppyjoey1]

This explains all my suffering as a Flame Ruler and getting most of my matches from Blue & Gold players.

[@chacazulo1987]

My story: i was ranking up, i was excited to be in blue ranks, when i hit fujin it felt good, i got raijin, i couldn’t believe it, when i got kishin i was feeling good about myself, when i reached bushin, i was like damn!! at this point i was super focused trying not to tilt, i already knew tekken king or even tekken emperor people were gonna be super good, one day i was focused a lot, making reads, everything worked out. I got tekken king, prowess went up to 240k. Now i’m getting stomped, and i hang around bushin or kishin. I can’t get tekken king anymore. And the sweats are insane. There are a few wack players at tekken king, but not many i can say for sure. I’m just happy to be at the ranks i am and not be demoted back to fujin or eternal, that would be the worst.

[@LBS851]

Can we take a moment just to appreciate the creativity and unquie presentation of the video. Excellent as Lee would say 😂

[@TrickyEileen]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@johnryan461]

Was stuck at garyu since like launch. Up my game last month and got to tenryu only to be knocked right down back to garyu lol. Took a break. I'll try again with Heihachis launch. It's so painful. But I'm glad to know it's not because I just completely suck

[@jamaledwards8118]

"Thats this is some bull shit" caught me off guard. Great video!!!

[@jamaalchardavoine1453]

I’ve been talking about this exact thing but what hurts the most is that my friend got out of the hell and made it back to king and I still can’t

[@REPIN156]

New subscriber here. Everything you’re saying is spot on. My biggest problem is definitely the matchmaking prowess. I just hit Tekken God but my prowess is 262K. No way in hell should I be matching up with 430K prowess.

[@hotcoldman9793]

Great video! I hard agree. You unlock extreme difficulty if you rank down a lot

[@nok9926]

I agree prowess matchmaking sucks, but peaks at new colors isn't abnormal, its how it is in other games too.

[@jasonnash4452]

what a good video.what makes this funnier is my first reccomended video under this is a tmm video called "rank inflation"

[@TrickyEileen]

😂

[@willthelemon5681]

I had a goal to hit purple with Lidia but before i could i deranked back to Shinryu and after that i haven't touched the character and play on an alt account where i dont have to care about rank i can just play and learn characters. I genuinely start sweating when I thinking about trying again.

[@SmilePecoSmile]

I really had no interest in prowess or rank distribution but I found this very enjoyable. Glad I watched.

[@TrickyEileen]

I'm so glad you gave the video a shot and found it enjoyable!

[@전병조-g5v]

In my view, they've set up one-way fish traps in the river. Once fish swim into the higher waters, there's no going back. The waters at Garyu and Fujin ranks become stagnant, mossy, and toxic, making survival tough. Both small and large fish are caught together, making escape increasingly difficult. While they grow, the larger fish prey on the smaller ones. The skill disparity within a rank is vast, and some larger fish choose not to advance, preferring to dominate the lower waters. Survival is ironically easier in the higher waters, but it requires luck and preying on the smaller fish. Reaching Tekken King means a Tekken power over 200,000, and entering the domain of Krakens and sharks, where you encounter secondary characters from the God of Destruction players. This system seems less like fair matchmaking and more like a jungle, focusing more on whom you match with rather than actual gameplay performance.

[@Bestboymiles]

I have MIXED opinions on this. I do agree this system makes ABSOLUTELY no sense, especially coming from other fighting games were rank was just a linear increase, rather than all these random factors. HOWEVER! I wouldn’t be as good as I am now if I wasn’t FORCED to change up how I viewed the game as a whole, and truly leveled up to handle the crazy players they were throwing at me.

[@gilet102]

Honestly I’m the same way that’s why I didn’t really make a huge fuss about the prowess matchmaking. Once you reach a threshold, the game throw you to the sharks and says sink or swim. I don’t really mind it personally, I’m forced to adapt. It actually gave the rank system a nice adrenaline rush for me.

[@Bestboymiles]

@@gilet102 Honestly the only I’d personally fix about rank is running into people who’re way higher or lower than you. Theirs no reason a Fujin player should matching with people 5 ranks below or above them like- wtf? It never felt this bad in t7

[@gilet102]

@@Bestboymiles yea the game usually do that when it takes longer to matchmake you with someone close to your rank/prowess.

[@TrickyEileen]

@@gilet102right cuz it’s filtering by prowess first then rank. Which is kind of backwards. It should be rank, then prowess within that rank distribution if they want to keep the prowess matchmaking feature. The filter order is backwards

[@WeMissDimebag]

The point about there being 2 sets of blue players is true but I think the inflation at Fujin is more easily explained by the win/loss penalties changing. Blue ranks is the first time where losing hurts you more than winning and you need a consistently positive win rate to climb. So consequently it is much easier to reach Fujin than it is to reach any rank above it, because you it’s literally the first point where the game starts expecting you to be a winning player to rank up.

[@TrickyEileen]

Why do we have a peak At red tho? That is also a very good theory

[@AstronauntSpace]

@trickyeileen do u host matches or lobbies ? Love to get some knowledge in

[@TrickyEileen]

I’ll be doing one in the near future to celebrate hitting 12k subs. Whenever I hit a new K number I do a viewer battle stream. Then we take a group photo in tekken lounge

[@AstronauntSpace]

@@TrickyEileen I’m down just keep me posted !

[@EnvyMizuhashi]

I simply chose to stop at blue, but at that time, I only knew how atrocious the point allocation was. I thought the Prowess matchmaking wasn't _too_ bad, but when you factor in that it doesn't function the same as standard ELO/MR, and that you're "caged" into fighting similar Prowess players regardless of the rank you fell into...yeah, I think I made the right call. 😂 And I don't think the rank points changes in 1.08 will address the Prowess issue, as far as we've been shown.

[@TrickyEileen]

yeah I don't think it'll fix the cage issue

[@Icycrackedpanda]

Man I’m at 201k prowess and I’m having the hardest time of my life the skill gap is above my experience level but slowly starting to hang with the much better players

[@manu-xiaoyu847]

When I started playing ranked more often I was around Tekken Emperor and stayed for awhile because i didnt touch ranked because i thought i needed to prepare myself before climbing but i wasn't fighting the same skill level of players in ranked as i was in quick match in ranked i kept facing 350K prowess players(Max Ranked Players) and quick match i was facing same rank and same rough prowess which I was able to stomp which didn't seem real for the rank. Anyway I started only playing ranked and facing stronger players which ultimately made me stronger and able to break into the God Ranks

[@GarrickJohnson-pc6ws]

Wow she is so right I can't get passed red rank and when I get to red rank I get deranked all the way back to yellow which makes it so hard to keep playing trying to rank up

[@RenTheDragon1975]

The other Reason the Fujin bar is so high is because when you hit Blue you now lose way more point to losing to ranks efffing higher than you than losing to ranks below you .... which is stupid enough before you hit the 230k gate ..... but gets elavated to a new level of Wank when you go through the 230K gate because you are now fighting MUCH better players ranking up a pocket character, AND dealing with the wank points system ..... lets hope the 1.08 patch fixes this Bollox ..... or at least takes the edge of it.

[@Aintnohope]

This actually explains why i keep facing players that i feel are so weak for their rank. I used to play nearly all of the roster in tekken 7 and now in 8 i don't do ranked much but when i do i switch characters alot. If its matching me against people that their mains at that rank instead of other higher ranked people on their alts that would explain why alot of the red ranks i fight feel like green ranks from tekken 7.

[@TrickyEileen]

Go to opponent profile and hit their ghost data. They’ll tell you if they have alts and their ranks

[@liquidjackson7172]

You know what? This content was so unique and funny that I’m definitely going to sub and watch your channel blossom. Hahaha love it!

[@TrickyEileen]

Wow, thank you!

[@liquidjackson7172]

@@TrickyEileen Thank you for bringing something both original and awesome in 2024 sis! Only the beginning.

[@TF-iz4my]

I’m new to Eileen. This is sick. Much love!

[@trinixjin8039]

remember when warrior and then at the end of season 4, genbu were the only peaks in tekken 7 ranked. The old rank system was perfect for keeping people in their actual skill bracket, rank point gain and decrease were consistent as well and the stupid promoting sending you to the half point of the next rank didnt exist either.

[@Taylor-nw3dp]

I can explain, when i hit red, i started grinding other characters to get good enough to get to blue. I did the same when i hit blue. This trend is because it is beneficial to play other characters to get better defense with your main.

[@Mcsham22222]

I’m at Tekken King but have been fluctuating between TK and Bushin/other blue ranks for several months now. This “hidden level” of blue ranks who are actually just alts for Tekken Gods - Gods of Destruction basically has me hard stuck. I don’t want to complain because the game is supposed to be competitive and difficult, but the reward to punishment ratio for wins and losses just feels wayyyyy off when you get to this level. Like if I saw as many normal blue ranks as I do players whose highest rank is Tekken Emperor/higher I’d definitely be Tekken Emperor by now. And I don’t one-and-done or anything but it’s gotten so bad that I almost don’t blame other players for one and done-ing if I run right through them and they care about not losing a ton of points for going on a losing streak.

[@SkynnyAnimation]

Very interesting stuff! I switched my main after hitting blue with Bryan, been stuck at tenryu/ mighty ruler cos everyone I fight is a bushin-god on an alt. Definitely feel like it’s helped me get better tho and I can feel myself breaking through the gate and I can now keep up with most of those players so I don’t mind it too much tho it is very stupid. It would be interesting to rank up a fresh account and see how high I got cos my prowess is cooked 😂

[@koketsoletlapeYT]

I knew reading comments Id find a similar take. My understanding is, you should fight stronger opponents to get better, not the same opponents you left behind. Being in red and purple and fighting blue rank players makes sense to me. You'll get whipped for sure, but soon you'll adapt to the speed and playstyle of better players. Thats why in higher ranks theres faster less spammy play. What we idealize as TRUE TEKKEN.

[@Fizzix]

I feel sane after listening to this. The only way I could rank up thru red was to turn the matching to +/-2 ranks because the second I hit Tenryu it was nothing but battle rulers amd fujins stomping me down to garyu. I touched Mighty Ruler for 2 fights and have been living in reds for over 6 months now 🙃 It's all broken and nothing seems fair

[@IfYouInsist]

What you’ve described at 3:50 is exactly what my experience with this game has been in the last few months when I can find the care to play. I either stomp someone or get stomped by someone in flame ruler on a sub character.

[@TrickyEileen]

Hi @IfYouInsist, thanks for pointing that out! playing on a sub character can sometimes lead to unpredictable results. I hope future patches help stabilize the matchmaking and provide a more balanced experience.

[@Sicknificant1]

Like half of garyus are just hardstuck purple/fujins on alts going 1 and 1 destroying garyus and losing to another fujin garyu. The actual garyus are getting farmed. Sadly, before the "smurfs" would at the very least quickly rank up and be gone. Now Mr. Gotthegameamonthago has to go against me and wonder how Tekken thought it would be a good idea to put a garyu against another garyu with 200k prowess. He loses. Then I the next game get to go against a tenryu with 240k prowess. I lose and lose more points too. Meaning my pubstomp on the actual garyu actually was for nothing and if I am lucky i will queue into him again to farm some points. Used to be you just quickly ascended through the ranks while saying sorry to the people in your way but at least it was quick. Prowess sucks as anything more than just a reference number.

[@TheArmoryArchive]

I LOVE the direction of this video!

[@TrickyEileen]

Ty🙂

[@nav7083]

As an additional comment, region at least in my experience has played a huge part in it, as someone who lives in the Caribbean the skill distribution is almost non existant, one game i can go from playing a master ruler and next game a GoD trying to rank up his 4th character. (just for reference i am currently in Kishin)

[@the_gratefulgamer]

I checked last night. There's probably over 500 Lings that are Fujin. And I'm one of them.😅

[@vontecontroll1556]

I dont think in the early ranks you should lose matches without consequence it should be as hard as red rank in the first 3 ranks and after that it should get harder and harder.

[@scooottbruh7849]

From my experience, Wavu Wank's mmr calculation is far more accurate. I am a hardstuck Shinryu and man is it so discouraging to play, and when I look at their mmr in wavuwank I always say "that makes sense."

[@carsnanime4719]

I think they could add 2-3 more ranks in between Tekken King and Emperor

[@WEST-LINE]

To be honest i gave up on ranked for always feeling cheated by way higher prowess players, sucked the fun out for me. Now i just chill in quick play or the tekken lounge for some group matches, you can go against ppl over and over again and pretty much lab frame data/ flowcharts all in one place. Im flame ruler devil jin main, and im suprised to see so many green/orange hell even freakin beginner ranks who got mad fundies and know how to play just chillin in the lounge. Until they fix the cespool that is ranked, im staying far far away to keep the stress levels low and just have fun playing

[@narcissisticnarcissus4956]

The peaks are due to getting extra points when you win a promotion match + (if I had to guess) people who take ranks seriously are hesitant to play ranked matches, when they get promoted and are afraid of getting demoted again.

[@TrickyEileen]

Then you'd see peaks consistently, but purple shows that's not the case.

[@krodmandoon3479]

Oooh I get it, it's like the Soul Memory system in Dark Souls 2 that *everyone hated with a passion.*

[@mariop8852]

damn I dont think I've ever seen anyone really break down brackets like that, super fascinating.