Response to George Farmer and Allie Beth Stuckey on Catholicism Vs. Protestantism

[@pantonal]

“Don’t get your theology from the Daily Wire” - Athanasius

[@aheadofmetal]

😂

[@connorsmith2764]

YESSSSSS!

[@tmc1861]

💯

[@willing_spirit6830]

On par with Protestant accuracy of Church history.

[@PDL4747]

So funny!

[@rockpaperscissors82]

There are almost zero Protestants who believe that everyone between Paul and Luther were condemned to hell. I know she's being sincere, but that's so ridiculous.

[@threelilies9453]

In fact, the way of salvation is the same from Abraham to today. Faith in the promises of God centered on the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus. Looking forward and looking back, salvation is obtained the same way.

[@morghe321]

I must say that Candace should know better, especially now that her husband has converted. The fact that she said she is "struggling" with the question and doesn't know what position the reformers held tells us how little she knows about the history of Reformation. I haven't seen the full debate yet, though.

[@haronsmith8974]

As a Catholic Ive been told more time than I can count how I am going to hell by prots.

[@morghe321]

@Haron Smith but of course you have. No one claimed that Protestants believe that all Catholics are going to heaven. That's not the subject being discussed.

[@marinusswanepoel1825]

@@haronsmith8974 Here is the difference. In the middle ages / immediate post reformation every single Catholic including the hierarchy believed that any and all Protestants were going to hell and were not afraid to say so while historical Protestants never came close to claiming this about Catholics. Today there is a small group of highly sectarian Protestant Evangelicals with extremely fringe views like Calvinism and extreme expressions of Lordship Salvation etc. who are veering ever more to the right side of the theological spectrum. I am sorry that the majority of that group lives in your area but they are not representative of mainstream Protestantism. More likely it is a symptom of Western cultural division. For what it's worth I am sorry for what you had to endure. Please take those statements in context. Everyone needs to be saved but that is not the same thing as "anathematizing" someone for simply being Catholic. God bless.

[@meghanyoung]

Even though I am still actively wrestling with Catholicism, I cringed a bit when Candace brought up the idea that Protestants might think nobody was saved for the first 1500 years of church history.

[@Wilkins325]

I really hope she eventually understands the actual Protestant view, which is that Christ has sustained the church despite its errors throughout history.

[@Jessica-rb3ci]

​​@@Wilkins325 as a protestant myself, I'd really like to hear a protestant state exactly what they think Christ has protected of the church (I am being sincere not facetious). Is it just the simplicity of the gospel? We can't claim that it's doctrine when so many of us hold opposing views and some straight up teach heresy or little to no doctrine at all. What is the bare minimum that Christ would need to protect of the truth for his promise to be kept that he will not let the gaits of hell prevail against the church? And is it likely that he would ONLY protect the bare minimum? I strongly lean towards conversion to catholicism over these questions

[@Wilkins325]

@@Jessica-rb3ci I think it’s clear that Christ has sustained the faith because otherwise, the faith would no longer exist today. It would have been wiped out, simple as. However it is clear that there have been “saved” Christians surviving throughout history regardless of them being under Rome or not.

[@jamesrey3221]

The Deposit of Faith, composed of the scriptures and the sacred traditions. Preserving and protecting the bible for centuries. from 382AD to the first printed bible "Gutenberg Bible" in 1455AD.

[@movingamountain]

@@Jessica-rb3cithe gates of hell not prevailing isn’t a reference to error free doctrine for the rest of time. It means that believers will ultimately triumph over death. Throughout the Old Testament, “gates of hell/hades” was synonymous with death. And think of the word “prevail.” If a coach was telling his football team that they would prevail over their opponents, would you expect it to mean that the team would play without error? I would understand it as an extremely hard fought battle, but eventually gaining the victory, even if it comes right down to the wire. I hope that helps.

[@patriotoftruth]

I've been protestant my whole life in a family of protestants and evangelicals. I 45 years I have never once ever heard anyone in any church say no one was saved and went to heaven until Luther. That is straight up some lies from some anti protestant radical. I have studied church history and that was not a belief.

[@dman7668]

​@southfijigal The point Candace made in my opinion is that apparently Christian's didn't know what the truth was in terms of the faith prior to the magical reformation. I believe that was what she was getting at. Keep in mind by dumping Catholicism protestantism has now dumped other aspects of the faith that had no need of rejection. It ended up being a disaster for the reformation and Catholics alike.

[@AlbertMagnvs]

Yet and still thats exactly what protestants act like: you are the true Christians. Well, I got news for you, you are NOT misunderstood, that's Catholicism, and yeah, you do act like the true Church spring up by heretics like Luther and Calvin.

[@clariceadj6313]

I cannot say that anyone at anytime is saved. I only know that through the grace of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, I am saved. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!

[@bhs3871]

I don't think she meant that Protestants actually say that. She meant that they express it in many ways. Protestantism has different ways of salvation than the Orthodox and Catholic churches, the only two churches that have apostolic lineage. She meant that when Protestants vehemently reject the Catholic/Orthodox way of salvation, they are in essence saying that for the first 1500 years no one had it right and weren't saved.

[@Nolongeraslave]

​@@bhs3871It is interesting what one can take from what is being said. The words Candance said are as clear as the light of the day. This argument originates from the Catholic Apologists and is fed to their hearers especially when they are trying to convert them to Catholicism. If one follows the Protestant way of evangelism, they concentrate on converting people to Christ when they preach the gospel, not history of the Church or who did what along the way. Most definitely, like most Protestants, Candace had never been confronted with such a question, simply because it is not been a necessary question in the Protestant Church because of the Protestant view of their leaders, including the Reformers. Protestants don't believe that Luther, Calvin, Zwingil or any other Reformer were the beginners of the Church, nor I am sure that such an idea ever entered their mind. But Catholic Apologists forms that angle simply to undermine Protestantism whom they believe are not part of Christ's Church! They say that Jesus established only one Church, and claim others are not Churches in "proper sense " (Pope Benedict said this); and if you think about it, that actually means that in Catholic sense of understanding Church, Protestants have no Christ, which means they may be entitled to the same question even more! I normally ask my Catholic friends, whether they believe all Protestants are heading to hell for not belonging to the Catholic Church established by Jesus. Apparently, they too are forced to think about their claims. Radical sites like Church Militant do believe Protestants are heading to hell. Personally, I believe the "donkey" work of evangelism is done by Protestants, who adopted the street or door to door preaching of the gospel to the lost (People like Ray Comfort) and his ministry The Way of the Master are doing a great job of facing hostile people to tell them about Jesus. This is what believers are called to do. We don't know who the ELECT are, our job is to present the gospel and let the Holy Spirit work in a person unto salvation.

[@jonthorson3997]

As a convert to the Catholic faith. I love this channel! Of course I disagree but this man is truly charitable when dealing with differences. Anybody who is an orthodox Christian who pursues Christ the king and shares the Gospel are brothers of mine!

[@crab-time1]

As a Protestant, this channel has helped me reaffirm my faith as well as better understand the beliefs of my Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters without reaffirming the caricatures that I've grown accustomed to. In fact, those caricatures have died out as a result. While we may disagree on beliefs and doctrines, you're still a fellow brother in Christ.

[@HiHoSilvey]

@@Southernly he was using the term orthodox to distinguish it from heterodox or heretical. He wasn’t referring to the capital O Orthodox Church.

[@Momof15plus]

He leads people away from the truth. That would include Jesus.

[@knockoutfever4]

The early church was Orthodox.

[@bigdawg1448]

@@Momof15plusnot true

[@pauloofernando]

Here's a great person for Candace to invite to her show...

[@Francoisdp82]

Yeah I actually thought of Gavin immediately when I saw Candice's video. Wanted to comment that her husband should debate Gavin instead.

[@CorbinatorLoL]

@@Francoisdp82 That would be great, but sadly I think her network prioritizes a "culture war" mentality. Thank God Gavin doesn't seem to fit the bill.

[@EmergencyPotatoChips]

@@CorbinatorLoL that’s exactly why I love this channel

[@thomasc9036]

Candace's main interest is not in an actual theological debate but more in YT viewership. There is a reason why she invited her husband and Allie instead of actual theologians.

[@johna6828]

I would love to see such an interaction and it could very well do wonders for the faith. If it's possible to coordinate somehow God willing, I'd encourage it

[@markmorris8410]

Martin Luther was not the first person to stand up against the papacy and the catholic religion.

[@alexpanagiotis4706]

Luther was an idiot!

[@joycegreer9391]

Yeah, just the first one who escaped being burned at the stake.

[@my.apologies]

My wife and I were literally talking about Candace’s video this weekend! It’s so hard to see people struggling with questions of theology when they don’t even have a correct understanding of either side. Thank you for covering this!

[@joeterp5615]

At least there were two sides represented in the video. In many videos it is one side critiquing the other without any chance to reply. And as much as I like Gavin - and I think he tries to be fair - he is often rather dismissive of Catholic responses. This is why it is good to have someone of equal heft on the opposing side who understands all the historical references and issues inside and out.

[@sethmickley5020]

Yeah this really was a sad debate in my mind. Candace from the gate has a misunderstanding of Protestantism. Allie Beth from the beginning says that scripture doesn’t directly affirm sola scriptura. There is no debate to be had if you don’t believe that scripture itself says scripture alone. You’ll always have to talk in circles cause you can never prove your argument.

[@BrianGondo]

@@sethmickley5020 where does the Bible affirm sola scriptura?

[@TheB1nary]

​@@sethmickley5020 sola scriptura, like the word 'Trinity', is not mentioned. But it is implicitly taught.

[@freda7961]

@@TheB1nary No? It’s not even implicitly taught in the Bible. On the contrary, the Bible categorically says otherwise. But it is claimed that later on, there was a paradigm shift when the entire Bible was written. At least, that’s how I understand some people claim it to be. Feel free to correct me though.

[@ogmakefirefiregood]

One time, I asked a protestant friend, "How were people saved for the 1500 years before the reformation, huh?!" Gotcha! "The same way they were saved before the Catholic Church came along." Ouch.

[@novena8743]

So we’re saying that the real Christianity didn’t came until Martin Luther 🙄

[@ogmakefirefiregood]

@@novena8743 I can't seem to find that statement anywhere in my comment. So... that's what YOU are saying. How was Abraham saved? The Catholic Church? Romans 4.

[@RS54321]

@@novena8743 No, Christianity began with Christ, hence the name.

[@alejandrinahs]

Before the Catholic Church was the Jewish faith. They were saved by Christ, wherein we - the church came along.

[@RS54321]

@@alejandrinahs After Christ was resurrected the first church was established in Acts by the first believers/first Christians, but this wasn't the CC...that came hundreds of years later.

[@yvichenj333]

I watched the Candace Owens debate a few minutes ago. Frustrated with the responses, I immediately thought "What would Gavin say?" Sooo excited and appreciative that you already had a response on hand!! Thank you, Gavin for your service to the body of Christ. Your content has gone far to equip me and temper my own tone in discussions with other believers.

[@thomasc9036]

I will be the mean one to say it was like watching the Special Olympics. We want to have sympathy for them but not exactly "fruitful". I am not sure what Protestant church Candace went but I worry more about her.

[@AnselmInstitute]

@@thomasc9036 Such a comment is not merely "mean"; it is false and antithetical to the teachings of Christ. As Gavin noted, these are intelligent people so speaking of them in a way that demeans there intelligence is not only a lack of Christ charity; it is complete nonsense.

[@thomasc9036]

@@AnselmInstitute This nonsense of being nice is an American gospel. The reason this debate even happened is because they were intelligent. They know how to "market". Do you really think Dailywire couldn't invite two qualified teachers?

[@AnselmInstitute]

@@thomasc9036 If you think the law of love was invented in the US, you are mistaken. Calling them mentally handicapped is the modern equivalent of calling them fools and Christ said that those who utter such statements are liable to hell. So you need to rethink whatever you imagine to be a Christian ethic.

[@thomasc9036]

@@AnselmInstitute The belief that the law of love is always being "nice" instead of truthful is an American gospel. What you are proposing is your own cultural twisting of the scripture.

[@valeriewynalda7655]

I had just finished watching both videos of the debate/discussion between George Farmer and Allie Beth Stuckey, when I saw your video in the sidebar. Thank you so much for clarifying these particular points. It was especially helpful to hear the distinctions between early church history (the first 500 years) and medieval church history, and that the Reformers were actually trying to go back to the beliefs of the early church.

[@roses993]

Amen!!!❤

[@dianacelaya3345]

This is my favorite KZbin channel! Thank you for all your doing brother!

[@borisbadenov2744]

I'll take a wild guess that Candice won't be inviting John MacArthur on to debate her husband.

[@edalbanese6310]

That would be like Tyson fighting in the ring with a high school wrestler

[@andrekershaw6244]

It was painful to watch the Farmer-Stuckey discussion. I spent some time in the comments there correcting some caricatures, just hoping someone would be helped. I specifically pointed people to Gavin, so it’s a joy to see him releasing this video. Hope it gets to Candace and her followers, somehow, in God’s providence.

[@danflannery54]

George: I just came across your channel. I am a Roman Catholic. I also struggle with certain aspects of Catholic doctrine. I attend a weekly Men's Bible study comprised of multiple walks of Protestants and non-denominational churches. Through the years, I have been able to bridge a strong understanding between both factions of Christian doctrine. You are excellent and well thought out. Though I agree with much of what you had put forth. I don't agree with everything. With that said, I love your clarity and reference for everyone to review. I love critical thinking people such as yourself. I will continue to follow you. How can I donate to support your channel?

[@Benjamin2503]

Thank you so much for taking the time to evaluate and respond, glory to God!

[@ShamgarSoA]

I’ve been reading through theological retrieval for evangelicals, and much like this video, it’s eased a lot of tension I’ve found within myself. Especially coming from a pretty exclusive Faith tradition, it’s so comforting to know that Jesus has been working through all ages.

[@caroldonaldson5936]

I couldn't believe the crunch question for Candace was "Do you think everyone pre-Reformation went to hell?" It misses the point by a country mile and I dont know of any Protestant, myself included, who believes that! I was so disappointed in Candace's lack of understanding of her own faith.🤔

[@eddardgreybeard]

Ok but consider the outstanding wealth of those that say Catholics aren't Christian And entire denominations are rabidly anti Catholic, such as the seventh day adventists

[@caroldonaldson5936]

@Gregory Mendoza It sounds as though Candace hasn't given a great deal of thought to the Christian faith generally - I hope she does so with folks other than George, on both sides, before coming to a decision either way.🙏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

Just because someone can't articulate a question in the most precise way, it doesn't mean the question has no merit. Ok so some protestants don't believe everyone before the foundation of their sect is in hell, that's nice but that logically means they believe there's an objective point at which the Church Jesus founded no longer works and by following it you are in fact condemning yourself to hell, otherwise any other particular sect would be redundant. The question here is: which year was it? It must mean in the intervening years and until this or that protestant sect came about, there was no formally valid way to attain salvation.

[@mj6493]

@The Dude’s Catholic Lutheranism is all about unburdening the conscience of the faithful. Indulgences, the treasury of merit, purgatory. These extrabiblical teachings unnecessarily burden the faithful in a way that is simply not Good News. It's better to rely solely on the work of Christ on the cross. That's Good News!

[@pinkfariy22]

To be fair, Candace has openly been a christian for only a few years. I remember in her interview with Russell Brand that she mentioned "not being very religious". Unfortunately, I think her faith is a bit of an achilles heel. I remember her making a video about how to argue against abortion with the bible and her arguments weren't very strong theologically. Her take on the Catholic vs Protestant debate doesn't surprise me.

[@Taterstiltskin]

just found this and your channel, and very much appreciate the information. now a subscriber. more than the knowledge, I appreciate how gracious you are to those with uninformed or otherwise wrong views. I'm old in body but young from the second birth, yet even with my level of knowledge hearing Candace's struggle with the 1500 years/no one saved thing was the most utterly absurd argument for roman catholicism I've heard to date. when you addressed it you were extremely gracious to her, which I admit is something I'd struggle with if it were me, so I really appreciate it when I see a good model of Christian behavior, it has definitely pointed out my own issues in that area. SDG!

[@KB-gd6fc]

I went through a sort of Protestant faith crisis and Gavin has been so incredibly helpful

[@apilgrimprogressing5258]

I believe there are larger spiritual forces at work right now then debating Protestant vs. Catholic. If we can come together as people of the faith, I believe we can accomplish a lot more for Gods glory and heal the land. The Bible states, if my people, who are called by my name shall humble themselves and pray. 🙏🏽

[@justinwhitcomb4903]

Dr. Gavin’s charitable nature is admirable! The three involved in the original conversation are clearly in over their heads.

[@LiliesofEden]

This was far more refreshing than their original arguments! Thank you!

[@theosophicalwanderings7696]

This is why we have to beef up Protestant apologetics. Too many people fall for these pop-level talking points. And I discern that Candace probably is as well. My gut tells me she put this discussion together because she is struggling between her intuitions on Protestantism (she thinks its correct) and Farmers talking points (which she doesnt know how to respond to)

[@FloridaManGraham]

Farmer was previously an Anglican, so he no excuse for thinking nobody was saved during the first 1500 years of the church. All he would have to do is read the Anglican liturgical calendar and see all the saint listed and realize his Protestant church does not believe that.

[@mj6493]

@@FloridaManGraham He also seems to forget that Anglicans do have a place for the Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books: "And the other Books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrines." - from Article 6 of the Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion. Also, the BCP includes canticles and readings from these books. How could he have missed this?

[@hometownapologist7879]

@@mj6493 he is making a point to a Southern Baptist who rejects the Deuterocanon. He is asked to quote Scripture concerning Purgatory and states she doesn’t accept what he has to offer, his interlocutor being a Baptist and all. IOW, the Anglican position is an outlier within Protestantism

[@ratatoskr9366]

That's like saying we need to beef up flat earth apologetics. To be "Protestant" is to protest against Christ's Church. Which like its founder Martin Luther, is based in pride and self-empowerment.

[@mj6493]

@@hometownapologist7879 Fair enough. I forgot Allie is a Southern Baptist. By the way, Lutherans never really omitted the Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books either, though Luther did categorize them as helpful to read but not suitable for establishing doctrine. And his view was not an innovation. It was held by many others as Ortlund has pointed out. Most American Protestants included these books in their bibles until the 19th century. I really feel that Catholics and Protestants are not as far away from each other on the issue of canon as people think. Protestants emphasize the "deutero-" part and Catholics emphasize the "-canonical" part.

[@boobookitty16]

Thanks for commenting on that debate! Found your channel from Beckett Cook.

[@rebanelson607]

I have never heard of the idea that Protestants say no one went to heaven until 1500. Goofy idea. How could any thinking person take it seriously?

[@TruthHasSpoken]

I've hand many protestants tell me that Roman Catholics aren't saved. Then they go on to state the Roman Catholicism began with Constantine, some even cite a specific year though there is hardly ever any consistency.

[@VVeremoose]

I think the thing we have learned about Candace and George in the past few months is that they are not honest actors.

[@VVeremoose]

​@@TruthHasSpokenthat's not the same thing as nobody being saved in 1500 years. Catholicism has evolved, even if they pretend it hasn't. That position also completely ignores Orthodox, Coptic, Messianic Jewish, and Eastern traditions.

[@TruthHasSpoken]

@@VVeremoose " that's not the same thing as nobody being saved in 1500 years. " I never made that claim. I simply said, no more, no less : _I've hand many protestants tell me that Roman Catholics aren't saved. Then they go on to state the Roman Catholicism began with Constantine, some even cite a specific year though there is hardly ever any consistency._

[@VVeremoose]

@@TruthHasSpoken that's true that that's what you said. But you said it in response to a claim. Without providing context yourself, it's reasonable to assume you were refuting the claim that Protestants don't say that about Catholics

[@PKAnane]

Dear Gavin.. please keep doing these. Its edifying

[@damiandziedzic23]

In the comment section under that video I was like: INVITE DR. GAVIN! 😂 And here you go. You made a video in response to their discussion! Thanks for your work ❤

[@tsolis7355]

Abandon Christianity?? You don’t think Farmer is a Christian?? Just because he’s not in your denomination? You’re the problem.

[@damiandziedzic23]

@@tsolis7355 unrelated comment 🤷‍♂️

[@lloydfrancis9149]

My Friend this is so sooooo Good especially as you are explaining the Protestant Reformation medieval vs patristic era. The fact it wasn't the intention of Martin Luther leave or start a movement but to reform the Church back to its original roots is astonishing. I prayed about this, it's important that Christians and myself understand true church history in order to move forward with the Glorious Gospel. I also believe that some Catholics are saved despite incorrect theology because of ignorance. I believe in Sola Scriptura. I did Screenshot the Martin Luther and Calvin quotes so I can read them over and over blessed be the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord thank you so much!! Lloyd. I actually appreciate the debate that Candice Owens had.

[@workinabroad]

I'm so happy to have a wide network of Christ following people to look to when I'm stuck on a question. Thank you for running this channel. I hope Candace watches this video at least.

[@annb9029]

Catholic here , the problem is nobody knows anything anymore nor do they care , the Non” s (non religious) have taken over , they are not even atheists they just don’t care and super hero movies are their religion , you and Trent Horn are both lovely apologists by the way. I just watched Ready To Harvest on KZbin he said the Amish will have more members bigger than most main line Protestant churches, Christian no matter Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox have work to do for sure

[@joshuabissey]

I have never heard any Protestant or Evangelical claim that no one prior to Luther went to heaven. I've studied the Reformation, and I've been in Protestant/Evangelical churches most of my life.

[@steeevealbright]

You’re very articulate and good at explaining these things. Thanks for this video.

[@peterburford4210]

Love your work. It's really helpful to me. Thanks 👍

[@Logous]

I already liked this video before watching it completely because I know it will address the points clearly and accurately lol. I’m so glad you did this!

[@verwesne8121]

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@nanowasabi4421]

@@verwesne8121 And it’s easy enough for him to change to a dislike if it turns out he’s wrong. A premature like isn’t cemented in the fabric of reality for all time.

[@anthonym.7653]

One of the more painful debates to watch. Both sides were not qualified.

[@godisreality7014]

That is the problem with "the church" - it makes a fool of itself and has nothing to do with Messiah and salvation.

[@roses993]

I agree. George farmer arguments were terrible

[@MatthewMorizio]

Well done, Gavin! The Spirit of Christ genuinely expresses Himself in your humility, love, and integrity. Thank you for sharing your labors here, desiring all of us to avoid needless 'sectarian' ghettos and dogmatism. Cheers!

[@jennerial]

WOW Im so glad you're speaking about this. WhenI watched it I thought why wasn't Dr. Ortlund invited. 😇

[@2007bing]

This was excellent! God bless!

[@joeoleary9010]

I've never even heard of this before. How many Protestants think no one was saved pre Martin Luther?

[@morghe321]

It's a pretty common strawman that Catholics use against protestants.

[@Kanjiro.D]

@@morghe321 ok so what's happened to those catholic then

[@internautaoriginal9951]

@@Kanjiro.D You don’t understand and make an strawmans

[@morghe321]

@@Kanjiro.D well, some of them were saved, some were not. Also, keep on mind, the Church during the patristic era didn't hold to many of the doctrines that the Roman Catholic Church holds to today, as Gavin has pointed out several times, in this and other videos.

[@Jolene03]

THANK YOU for your opening comments - I had to pause the video after Candace's question (love her, btw) because I was like no no no!! That's NOT what we believe!!

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Thanks again for clarification. The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him. Proverbs 18:17

[@jrponce3732]

This was great, Pastor! It was nice running into you at Grand Central Station in NYC. Your channel is a blessing 🙏🏽

[@TruthUnites]

Great to meet you JR!

[@duckymomo7935]

He was in nyc??

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Hello Gavin. "... most contemporary Protestants have drifted from historic Protestantism in my book... " Exactly. Glad you said that. In fact it would seem that most contemporary Protestants don't even know historic Protestantism. The same thing happened in the Roman Catholic Church, the only difference being that that Church has had about 1400 years to drift while the Protestant Church has only had about 400. Hypothetically, in another thousand years the Protestant Church will have drifted as far as the Roman Catholic Church has to date. Same ol' dynamic. In principle, I personally do believe in the Protestant Reformation (Revolution), but not in the Protestant Evolution.

[@mcgilldi]

You clarify these arguments so well

[@douglasiupati5647]

Thanks Dr Ortland. Great video. Commenting for the algorithm! 😊

[@theknight8524]

Honestly Both of them have a lot learn about protestantism.

[@pchuck1439]

They all have alot to learn about both Catholicism and protestantism. Neither represented their sides well.

[@michellemcdermott2026]

I receive Jesus every day in The Eucharist, nothing anyone can say can ever make me leave Him

[@theknight8524]

@@michellemcdermott2026 Christ dwells inside your heart 24/7 Stop idolizing Eucharist and appreciate it as a sacrament And Allow God to lead you.

[@pchuck1439]

@@theknight8524 It is a Sacrament, but once consecrated, the bread becomes the body blood soul and divinity of Jesus. Early Christians believed this. Jesus said "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” 6:51 "For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." John 6:55 "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. John 6:56 "Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me." 6:57 "This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 6:59 So when you say stop idolizing the Eucharist, you're saying not to worship Jesus.

[@priscillaboatman5682]

Thank you! I know God lead me to your videos. I am stuck between two faiths and your videos are a gift to me! Sincerely, thank you!

[@morghe321]

Glad you made a video on this, Gavin. The original video came to my attention by another youtuber, but it was much shorter. Great video, as always.

[@blesswinjoy4146]

Wonderful work brother ❤ Great video. I have solid ground to stand on the protestant solid faith

[@catholicvidcollection]

I am intrigued! I have not heard of you so now I must do a deep dive! ❤

[@TruthUnites]

hope you enjoy!

[@isaiahceasarbie5318]

These clarifications are so refreshing. Thank you Dr. Ortlund.

[@christinetuazon9700]

So much respect for Dr. Gavin!!! I admire him and trying to also see common ground.

[@avataranime101]

Can everyone in the comments please make sure Allie Beth sees this video?

[@GerardPerry]

She's blocked me, but I applaud the idea, nonetheless.

[@morghe321]

​@Gerard Perry why did she block you?

[@GerardPerry]

​@@morghe321 I think it's because I had some mild critique of something she said in one of her videos. I can't even recall the substance of it at the moment, tbh. Some creators are just thin-skinned.

[@danielsell7598]

I believe Allie did a great job, especially in Part 2.

[@nicoleevans4722]

Thank you for this clarification. As soon as I heard the question, I was shocked that anyone would think it a good challenge to Protestantism. We all have a duty to become certain of the things we believe and why. So thank you for providing your resources. 👍

[@rickydettmer2003]

Always appreciate Dr. Ortlund’s take on subjects like this. As someone discerning Catholicism I really appreciate his take in things. I guess my one bugaboo with this is the quote by Calvin at the beginning. I’ve read Chrysostom’s commentary and have read a decent amount of cyprian as well, I guess I just find it odd that Calvin would appeal to these church fathers when they so violently disagree with him on some key aspect of his theology (ie. Freewill, eternal security, and the depravity of man). And of course you don’t have to take my work for it, Chrysostoms commentary is pretty accessible and another great resource for the pre nicene fathers is the dictionary of early Christian beliefs compiled by David bercot. Also I’m not saying this to dog Calvin or my reformed brothers, just feel like his quote is a little unwarranted

[@rickydettmer2003]

And also, perhaps I’m reading too much into that Calvin quote, if so then I apologize. Trying to be better about giving people the benefit of the doubt 👍

[@Real_LiamOBryan]

@@rickydettmer2003 I don't want to sound rude, so please don't take it that way, but I think that you are reading too much into the Calvin quote. Why? Because, as Gavin pointed out in the video, there are places where the early Church fathers disagree with Protestant doctrine, even sometimes on the most important doctrines. As Gavin said, it's only in the most important areas that Protestants are closer to, but not necessarily in complete harmony with, the early Church, and even on those areas there was some disagreement between the early Church fathers; therefore, one doesn't have to agree with a Church father entirely to cite him as being, in general, in agreement with Protestants on the most important doctrines. I hope you find this helpful. P.S. Thanks, very much, for trying to be better about giving people the benefit of the doubt. This is one of my struggles as well, and we would all do better with practicing this more, as you are doing here.

[@ntlearning]

Try the Anglican divines on the church Fathers. Completely different spirit.

[@rickydettmer2003]

Is that a work or set of works? I’m not familiar with that term sorry

[@Real_LiamOBryan]

@@rickydettmer2003 They're a group of the most influential Anglican writers, but there's no official list of Divines.

[@chrischristodoulou1877]

Please help support this man. He is doing such amazing work and putting so much effort and time in his content so that you don’t have to spend 100s of hours to get answers.

[@wejpasadena1]

Pastor Ortlund this is SO helpful. It’s sad that Protestants don’t study church history so some of us believe that everything that happened between the end of the NT era and 1517 was of no value, or that there were no “true Christians” during that era. This of course is not the case. Unfortunately today many Protestants have a low view of the Church and confuse it with the local congregation. Also the true meaning of Sola Scriptura is lost on many Protestants. We do not mean that all truth is contained in scripture, of course, but that the scriptures are both sufficient and our ultimate authority. Nothing is needed outside of the scriptures in order for us to know God and be reconciled to Him. When Protestants argue with Roman Catholics they are often unaware of things like this.

[@vidog52]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the clarity.

[@mlj6293]

I do Thank You Gavin for your Channel and all your work. You definitely have the gift of teaching. I'm learning a lot thank you.

[@morghe321]

​@Robert Stephenson so you don't think that Gavin has the gift to teach?

[@jeaninegray5600]

Oh how I wish I was smart enough to comprehend all this... so interesting! You are gifted!

[@JubalBed]

We definitely need more people like you Gavin. As a protestant I used to think exchanges and debates with Roman Catholics were an afterthought. The battle was against Atheism and Islam but there's almost always polemics involved when discussing things with Roman Catholics. I love learning about church history and it's a bit sad that we don't put more effort into learning it.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

Are you also a baptist btw?

[@jamesrey3221]

That is true, Christianity must present a solid front against the issues that beset our society. The time of great moral weakness is evident. Self-control in the realm of sexuality and self-discipline in general seem increasingly lacking in our culture today. Many are too weak to keep the commitments they have made to marriage. Addiction to alcohol, drugs, sex, and pornography. Increasingly, people declare that they are not responsible for what they do and/or cannot help themselves. There is a general attitude that it is unreasonable to expect people to live out ordinary biblical morality, to have to suffer or endure the cross. Watered down Christianity demonstrate weakness and a lack of courage, signaling the onset of spiritual starvation.

[@oliveri9407]

Protestants avoid church history because it refutes their entire existence.

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

Please stop calling us Roman Catholics , we are not all Roman catholics. The official catechism of the Catholic church doesn't even say Roman Catholic church, it just has Catholic church. The Catholic church has many Rites/Church , think of them like denominations within Catholicism but they are not all different in beliefs. They are all in communion together under the Pope. But they have different traditions , liturgies etc but all 100% believe the same thing , they just express it differently. The Roman Catholic church is the biggest but their is Byzantine Catholics , Syriac , Ukrainian Catholics etc. I am just a Catholic , if you ask me specifically what type of Catholic then I am a Roman Catholic. Many protestants like to call us Roman Catholic as a derogatory term, so please just refer to use as Catholics. As not all Catholics are Roman catholics , thanks

[@JubalBed]

@@Compulsive-Elk7103 I don't believe that you are THE catholic church. You are asking me to throw the protestant and orthodox churches out of the universal(catholic) church. Why would I refer to you as just Catholic when I don't believe it and it damns my own church? Your head is the bishop of Rome, that is why we refer those under that institution as Roman Catholics. Would you refer to us Protestants as catholic since historically we thought of ourselves as reformed Catholics?

[@willmcauliff506]

Very thoughtful response. It’s tragic how even those of us within the Protestant tradition today have internalized these myths about Protestant belief (e.g. that Protestants supposedly believe that Roman Catholic Church or Orthodox Church are not saved, which the irony being that historically the exact reverse has been true). I think there’s value in these videos which comment on contemporary discussions of Protestantism, even if they do touch on topics you’ve made videos on previously. It’s helpful to unpack the variety of misconceptions out there

[@AnselmInstitute]

Myths about Protestant belief? You seem to think there is one Protestant faith represented by whatever Gavin says. You think this because Gavin gives the false, dishonest impression that he speaks for Protestantism. He doesn't and there are Protestants who think Catholics are not Christians. Gavin doesn't speak for them because there is no united "Protestant faith" led by a pope named Gavin. It is a random amalgam of people who have one thing in common; their "protest" or revolt against Christ 's Church. That Church does have a unified teaching as there is a unified teaching body. This is something that ever splintering Protestantism lacks.

[@brentputhoff]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYG3hIp4ma5lmqs

[@bad_covfefe]

Many of the early reformers and their sects didn't even think the other reformers were saved, so it's no stretch to think they would declare Catholicism to be heretical.

[@dougy6237]

Candice is still Protestant, and not a Catholic, so why worry about what she said? Why not deal with the facts as presented by her husband? I invite the presenter to take up that challange. Also the early Fathers are Catholic on every point of doctrine. The Church deepens it's understanding of apostolic doctrine. The difference betweeen the early Fathers and Protestants is that the early Fathers firmly held that the Church was established and guaranteed by Christ and was the Final Authority. The Protestant rejected this, and as they say, the rest is history.

[@bad_covfefe]

@Dougy for clarity's sake let's say the early church was Orthodox AND Catholic, not just Catholic, as this gives the impression that the current distinct entity known as the *Roman* Catholic church had the same relation to the rest of Christendom all the way back to the first century, which isn't true.

[@MarcoTrusso]

So good. Dr Ortlund doesn’t disappoint!

[@thomascurry4762]

Thanks, Gavin, for this response. As always it was fantastic! Also, I love how you stick to accurate historical Protestantism as held by the early reformers. With that said, I would love if you made a video about the infallibility of the scriptures versus the modern innovation of inerrancy. I would think that the early reformers are more in line with the Catholic Church's view of Scripture as stated in Vatican 2 then they would be with modern evangelical view of inerrancy even before the early reformers knew of science and history as it is known today.

[@Jerome616]

As a Catholic, I was really hoping you would cover this!

[@Baccanaso]

​@robertstephenson6806he moved to constantinople to make the praetorian guard irrelevant

[@deanne.m.sanderson]

I am neither Catholic nor Protestant. I am Christian just like those who believed, repented and were baptized in Acts 2.

[@roses993]

Im a forever protestant, pastor's daughter. And we never believed people went to hell until luther. If you truly understand and believe the gospel and repent, you are saved. Period ❤❤

[@dansands6363]

17:30 to further add to your baseball analogy, would it be correct in saying that the umpire is the church (fallible) and the rules of baseball is scripture (infallible)? In other words, the ump can mess up interpret things wrongly, but the rules of the game are set in stone and can’t be changed or corrected.

[@mashajohns7810]

Thank you for speaking on this important issue. I totally agree with your points.

[@tiredoftheworld4834]

Haven’t even watched the video yet but I totally agree with your Channel name. Only TRUTH unites. So many Christians talk of division is bad blah blah blah. Nah, I think what is really bad is being United in lies. That’s worse. Better to separate yourself with truth than confusion and deception

[@joycegreer9391]

Absolutely.

[@michaelbabbitt3837]

Thanks for this discussion. Well needed today.

[@elizabethmiller4963]

The interview had a lot that left me wondering why some things weren't said. This video is a very good and gracious video. George's reasoning on the veneration of Mary didn't make sense. He said that the council referred to Mary as "the mother of God" so that the hypostatic union would not be discounted. But giving Mary that title doesn't affect Jesus' identity as the second person of the Trinity. He was and is never not God the Son regardless of how he came to earth. It is said "Jesus died on the cross", and not "God died on the cross", and certainly not "The Holy Spirit died on the cross."

[@LPeter-gn4th]

Neither of them adequately defended their respective sides... I did not like it at all. @CandaceOwensPodcast missed a good opportunity to get better-qualified people on their huge platform for such a huge generic topic.

[@X_mano]

Like Gavin and Trent, it would be amazing

[@jopesh5083]

Oh yes, have Gavin and Trent-- both are used to discussions like this while keeping a peaceful but firm tone

[@EmergencyPotatoChips]

Because they literally think they know everything and their pride won’t allow for it

[@EmergencyPotatoChips]

@@X_mano the difference is that Gavin and Trent are actually knowledgeable to speak on the topic…

[@jopesh5083]

@@EmergencyPotatoChips I haven't seen their discussion but I heard it was still pretty interesting and informative

[@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom]

This was awesome! 👏

[@malcolmlayton2050]

There were proto-protestants before Luthor ... arguing against the perpetual virginity of Mary , monasticism and celibacy ... and as to whether the apocrypha or various books of them should be considered as canon was an ongoing dispute (Hebrew scholars do not consider the intertestamental books to be inspired Old Testament) ... to present Roman Catholicism as this monolithic lump that existed from the 1st century on is disingenuous ... and some of the voices from either side wanting to demonise the other is worrying ... we have bigger things to worry about ..

[@joycegreer9391]

Yes there were, from the beginning.

[@jessicamiller1548]

Thank you! Very helpful clarifications!

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

No lol everybody didn't go to hell until Luther. Nowhere near the majority of Christians believed all the Roman Catholic doctrines Rome teaches today. For the first thousand years many clergymen and teachers (and even a pope) rejected the idea of "real" flesh and blood in the eucharist. Priests married and there was no notion of a celibate priesthood. Nobody had an idea of Mary being sinless (that started based loosely on gnostic teaching), or her being "assumed" bodily into heaven. The idea everyone was a modern Roman Catholic with totally uniform beliefs until Luther is such a ludicrous fantasy it is hard to fathom anyone believing it.

[@kale6264]

I think I have a new favorite channel, thank you sir.

[@TruthUnites]

glad to be connected!

[@jonasopmeer]

Appreciate the commentary. Wish more people knew about this channel.

[@JHH1027]

I am a Catholic and disagree with Gavin Ortlund’s beliefs but sincerely appreciate his charitable explanation of Protestant doctrine and attitude toward Catholics.

[@johnsambo9379]

So you follow a pedo Pope. Got it.

[@benjaminledford6111]

On that first question Candace poses of "was nobody saved for the first 1,500 years of church history?" my mind also went immediately to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox exclusivism. As Protestants we can affirm that there were saved believers in both the east and the west for those 1,500 years and for the last 500, too. It's the RC's and EO's who deny that and claim a monopoly on salvation.

[@danhickey1227]

Hi, Catholic here. Agree with you somewhat, there are some radtrad types who try to monopolize salvation, but I've also seen protestants write diatribes on why Catholics are damned. In the nicest way possible, I'd say that it seems to go both ways. God Bless!

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

Lumen Gentium addresses this.

[@ravissary79]

​@@danhickey1227 on why SOME are, it's not exclusivistic. Because we dint claim salvation through an institution, but faith in christ alone, it's literally impossible for an educated protestant, on principle, to say no catholics can possibly ever be saved. When they do what you're saying, they're presenting a view of a person in that institution, doing or living or believing a certain way which they believe precludes salvation, but even the most extreme version of this is conditioned upon the hypothetical people they're condemning being like they're describing... and it's impossible for this to apply to every individual. They're just very cynical about how common they think true Christians are in catholicism, but they aren't making a true exclusivistic claim, because we believe it's not about the institution, but God's relationship with individuals, who could be anywhere. Hence why we believe in "The Invisible Church": that all believers everywhere are the church, and they could be anywhere, regardless of their membership status.

[@godisreality7014]

Any and all who call upon their Creator can be saved. We are made in His Image - we know. Doctrines of devils prohibit and inhibit belief in the truth, which is God, the Creator and Redeemer and Messiah.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@godisreality7014 This is too broad, not only does islam also worship the creator, most pagan religions have a creator deity even when it isn't the most important one in their pantheon

[@peterw1177]

“The appeal of Protestantism was a return to and retrieval of the early Church” A Protestant needs to ask himself or herself, how did Chrysostom, Basil, Cyprian, Ambrose and Augustine live and practice their faith? Does it look anything like what we see with the various Protestant denominations today? The reformers were quick to use the ideas of the Church Fathers in defending their arguments, but none of them points out any single Church Father as a model to living and practicing faith as a Protestant. Why?

[@harrygarris6921]

This needs to be clarified as some of the ideas of some of the church fathers. The reformation was not a true attempt at recovering the early church. It was an attempt at cutting out the Roman Catholic theology that they viewed as disagreeable and replacing it with their biblical interpretation, some of which was in part guided by patristic writing, some of which was not.

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

Wrong. The Protestant should asking themselves how did Christ live or what He taught. _Christ_ is the example of what Christian living is supposed to look like, not some "church father". Catholicism and Protestantism are both fundamentally false religions because they have lost sight of that. Their pride in their traditions amount to absolutely nothing because they're not based on truth.

[@christaberit]

It is implied by the term Protestant Reformation that the church was being “reformed” not declared false from the beginning.

[@dman7668]

Good point!!

[@VESPVESP]

reformation is a weasel word for rebellion

[@joycegreer9391]

@@VESPVESP RCC was the weasel.

[@Athabrose]

This is so good. Straightforward and with clarity. Thanks Dr. Ortlund.

[@jfitz6517]

This KZbin channel is a God send. Along with Jordan B Cooper’s channel, you guys are a blessing to so many.

[@dougy6237]

Candice is still Protestant, and not a Catholic, so why worry about what she said? Why not deal with the facts as presented by her husband? I invite the presenter to take up that challange. Also the early Fathers are Catholic on every point of doctrine. The Church deepens it's understanding of apostolic doctrine. The difference betweeen the early Fathers and Protestants is that the early Fathers firmly held that the Church was established and guaranteed by Christ and was the Final Authority. The Protestant rejected this, and as they say, the rest is history.

[@mr.charlesharvey1582]

Yeah, it was painful to watch. I couldn't sit through it. Nothing against either of them but they both needed someone more knowledgeable helping them.

[@henrybayard6574]

Gavin I appreciate your personal opinion on this however there are MANY pastors who say Catholics and orthodox are lost!! The chief of these are John MacArthur, Todd friel and justin Peters just to name a few. Aren't they protestants or are we mistaken??

[@TruthUnites]

I think the testimony of Luther and Calvin is more determinative with respect to "historic Protestantism" than that of MacArthur or Friel or Peters, by a wide margin.

[@mcocknoxy]

​@@TruthUnites preach!

[@SCOTTISHSOULFOOD1]

@@TruthUnites amen!

[@joycegreer9391]

No, they do not say that. They do not say that individuals within those churches cannot be saved. It depends on the individual.

[@henrybayard6574]

@@joycegreer9391 I'm sorry but you are incorrect. They all say that if you believe in the RCC you are lost. You must stop believing what the RCC teaches. Which catholic is going to do that and remain catholic??

[@carolynbillington9018]

excellent concise teaching on these subjects

[@heartofalegend]

Gavin, this short video packed a wallop of truth into 25 minutes! If believers would take the time to just watch this and internalize this info, 99% of what they get hit with by Rome would be easily dealt with in short order, I'm convinced. Just some BASIC church history is all it takes to dispense with the claims of Romanism and you proved that, here. Thank you!

[@TonyKeeh]

lol

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

What's romanism?

[@joycegreer9391]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj Catholicism.

[@johna6828]

Amen Dr Ortlund. God bless you! This video is a rich blessing and I thank God for your truth and love for the church (body of believers) dispensed in it. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[@ColleenB10]

As a Catholic, I was embarrassed for her (Allie) and her replies. She didn’t do her homework and clearly did not understand Catholic theology.

[@drewwilson6639]

She's brand new to any kind of real Christian faith. Imo she didn't properly represent either side

[@jaredlowry3547]

Who? Candace or Allie?

[@drewwilson6639]

@@jaredlowry3547 candace

[@RedMcgive]

Candace wasn't debating. George won the debate. He had truth on his side.

[@ColleenB10]

@@RedMcgive i was referring to the other woman, i don’t know her name because I have not seen her before. Allie i see it is.

[@ProverbsOne7]

I am an "ex catholic" born, raised & harvested a catholic. I then in my 30's became a biblical Christian and entered the Protestant world. I have never looked back. All glory to the Name of Jesus Christ. The ONLY name whereby one can be saved. And, oh how great is His salvation! Great informative video btw Thank you and God be with you to protect His Great Name.

[@MPH552]

@@ProverbsOne7 me too! I was 30-1/2 years old . Never ever looked back!

[@ekatrinya]

It seems like every Christian from all denominations and all Catholics call themselves biblical Christians. I've never heard anyone say they're a non biblical Christian. My understanding is that a Christian is a follower of Christ, who is God, and that one only comes to knowledge of Jesus from the Bible itself or being taught about the Bible. So I don't understand what Bible Christian is supposed to mean. Bible Christian as opposed to what? All the different denominations and Catholics are getting their viewpoints from interpretations of the Bible. I guess what I'm saying is I have never come across a Christian who believes in his heart that he is going against the Bible or not in need of Scripture.

[@flavadave3943]

I so love your videos. You are concise and rational. Not to mention the fact that you appreciate logic along with inherent nuance and biases. Every point you make, is another reason I consider myself to be a Protestant Christian. Thank you so much for these thoughtful and educational videos.

[@jgiaq]

The fact that Candace Owens (and so many others) would have such a wrongheaded view of the Church and Church history is deeply saddening. In each clip you used, I cringed at the lack of clarity and poor understanding of the issues. They used sloppy language and displayed no nuance at all. Not trying to be mean, but man... All I can say is thank you for making this video! Hopefully all three take notice.

[@jamesrey3221]

Just show us that not all people, even intelligent people like her, can read the bible and can fail understand it correctly, while most people do not even read a bible, or do not even own one. This why, in His wisdom, Christ, meant the official teaching of the apostles and of their successors in the Church to be our guide, not the written Bible which is so liable to misinterpretation by its various individual readers, however sincere they may be.

[@Danaluni59]

Without the

[@billlee2194]

I recall one thing Candice said after George had mentioned something contained in church history...she responded 'I didn't know that' and that is the big thing missing from my Baptist roots. We didn't know church history or only what our pastors wanted to share with us. The primary sources are all available and probably many in pdf form online. Men like Clement of Rome 80 AD, Ignatius of Antioch 107 AD, Justin Martyr 155 AD and Irenaeus of Lyon 180 AD. If those men don't convince you that the Church Jesus left us was Catholic, I don't know what would. God bless

[@godisreality7014]

The "church" does not save.

[@godisreality7014]

@@billlee2194 Messiah never talked about a "church" - He went to individuals and healed them. The verse about "peter" being "the rock" is bogus, there is only one rock and that is Messiah, who is God.

[@kentemple7026]

Dr. Ortlund - Excellent! So glad you did this, and so fast!! I just watched the George Farmer & Allie Beth Stuckie video yesterday and also noticed those same things. wow, you responded fast. Great job on those 3 big issues. And another thing - George Farmer said the Assyrian Church of the East (called by Rome and Constantinople as the Nestorian Church) - that they were completely wiped out by Islam - not true. Some have survived in Iraq and Iran. Some are in Syria and Turkey, although many many have immigrated to the west to escape persecution by Islam. Pope John Paul 2 had some kind of get together with them in the 1980s and Rome agreed not to deem their Christology as heretical anymore (a centuries long, millennium more mis-understanding - Nestorius actually agreed with Leo's Tome (Chalcedon, 451) after he was exiled (431, Council of Ephesus). (Nestorius, The Bazaar of Heraclides) , although I don't think the Eastern Orthodox have ever accepted that church as not heretical. I hope George and Candace Owens see this soon. Both your video and my comments about the Church of the East. Is there a list of Ex Cathedra Statements by Rome anywhere? I have never heard that it was only used 7 times in history (per George's statement). Jimmy Akin and other Roman Catholic Apologists usually give some kind of vague statement that it could be 16 or less. (from my memory) You are right that they debate over when it was actually done in history. Very obscure.

[@ThePlagueGameing]

Fantastic teaching! Thank you! ❤❤❤

[@jamesg6297]

Thanks for this! To many people rehash bad arguments and don’t bother to read the verifiable evidence which leaves an ignorant hole in there views and bad attitude in disagreements. Keep at it Brother!

[@prime_time_youtube]

Thank you, Dr. Ortlund!

[@MrKingishere1]

Awesome video Gavin ! I’ll always love your sola scriptura videos.