Response to Johnny Harris' "Real Story of the Mormon Church"

[@whatsstandard]

I'm a simple man. I see Don Bradley tackling church history, and I like.

[@telestial_mormon]

Hey I like Don too but there is a reason he stays on podcasts friendly to the church’s white-washed narrative. He can seem really open minded on these types of podcasts. But I asked him to actually explain the lost 116 pages on one of ward radios live streams a few weeks ago-and he couldn’t articulate well why the south park episode on the lost pages wasn’t a compelling argument. You should go back and listen to it. Nice guy but isn’t going to say anything against the church narrative now that he has come back to full activity in the church

[@lindamartinez7006]

Oh stop . That’s because he knows the church is true and has a lot of evidence .

[@TheBlegere]

when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. Every mormon prophet fails this test

[@Herm.Q-92]

I can’t find this guy proving any of this outside of these Mormon channels. It would be nice to see him in a debate, and prove what he says he’s found.

[@tiffnickk]

Thanks to Don Bradly for sticking around for so many episodes. He has such a wealth of knowledge with such a kind heart!

[@jack-q8y8b]

Don Bradly needs to be a regular. I listen to anything he's in.

[@landenmcniven7963]

Fr

[@angelalewis3645]

Agree!

[@AnnieWinter148]

I left the church for similar reasons as JH. Had many anti Mormons throw nonsense my way over the years. Im 67 today and I know the church is true despite being inactive. I think JH will come back someday as the Holy Ghost won’t let him go.

[@ramsrnja]

Thanks for sharing your testimony

[@scottmitts6870]

Thank you for sharing, as a person who also went inactive I plead with you to do what it takes to get back to activity, it makes all the difference.

[@Lola-sz8zu]

Hello! I pray that you find strength and comfort and healing. Ask for Gods guidance to help you find your way back to the gospel.

[@anacleiawalker]

Hi my friend, please come back to church. No matter what you are dealing with, please come back to church. At least once a month. Your presence and knowledge are very much appreciated. We all deal with issues. Some of us with small and some of us with very big problems. However, we need each other company. We need the warm heat of camaraderie among other humans. I remember when I was on a mission in Brazil, I know a lot of folks who could not be baptized due to not being ready to live the law of chastity, word of wisdom or the laws of tithing. But they went to church because they wanted to learn more about God and be with the Saints. In your case, you’re already baptized and have a testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We need you back. We need your smile and all the greatness you have to offer. Even if it is just once a month. Please, come to Church🙏🏽

[@shireecox122]

I truly hope you’re right. It’s good that you came back.

[@heberfrank8664]

Claiming to have the "Real Story" is the first clue he is putting himself on a pedestal. He has the right tell us what he understands. But why is he the one that the whole world can trust to tell them the "Real Story"?

[@krismurphy7711]

Joseph Smith claimed the same. Brigham Young claimed the same. Every Prophet since has claimed the same. The Church claims the same.

[@Eagle_Powers]

Oh so yours is the real story?

[@markhayward7411]

I think the point Johnny is making is that the "real story" is the story that isn't talked about.

[@krismurphy7711]

FOR GOOD REASON. I doubt The Church would exist if ALL the info and stories had been known to Members@@markhayward7411

[@treystone9464]

@@krismurphy7711 Joseph should know his history at that time better than his bitter enemies recalled 40 years after Joseph died. Treasure hunting myths Joseph refuted and polygamy candidates claiming to have Joseph children, when modern DNA tests refute those claims.

[@TroyLeavitt]

I think Johnny Harris is very sincere. He is simply telling his story as he sees it. Hence, I also think it is unfair to characterize him as being motivated specifically against the LDS Church. Rather, for being a former member, I see him as being really quite fair and kind to his former religion.

[@bradwitbeck]

I agree. I think the worst of what he says comes from things he is saying that he actually believes but ultimately seem to stem from some older anti Mormon arguments that he may find convincing now, but might change his mind on if he were to be aware of some of the further evidence that Don is.

[@krismurphy7711]

LIKE THE JOSEPH SMITH MONEY DIGGING TIMELINE YOU ALL DID NOT/DO NOT KNOW??? @@bradwitbeck

[@hrjosh27]

@@bradwitbeckget off the fence… defend the gospel with some cojones

[@bradwitbeck]

@@gordianknot9595 so, I currently find Mark Alan Wright’s “Heartland as Hinterland” theory the most compelling right now - that the core of the Book of Mormon took place in Central America, but that the northern migrations that happened in Alma 63 were significant. And I haven’t talked with any professional linguists about it, but I don’t have any on speed dial haha. Though I may actually know one, so maybe I should reach out to him about it. As for Rogers and Hansen, I feel Stubbs’s 44 points of rebuttal do a good job of answering their concerns - though Hansen seems to have more valid ones than Rogers. I think we’re going to see a shift in acceptance of Pre-Colombian contact in the next few years, and when that happens, maybe Stubbs’s work will get more attention :) By the way, where do you think the Book of Mormon took place? (My guess is your response will be something along the lines of “in Joseph Smith’s head” but I’m genuinely curious) And if you think Joseph Smith just made it up, I would like to know how you think he managed it. Is there a particular theory or combination of theories you find most compelling?

[@bradwitbeck]

@@gordianknot9595 that’s a fair point. I still believe there are many evidences for the Book of Mormon, though the archeology of it is complex, and that it is an ethnocentric book that doesn’t really mention the other peoples they interacted with. I don’t think the Americas were unpopulated when Lehi and his people arrived. I’d definitely be interested in hearing more specifics around how you think Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon. I too often hear that it’s plagiarized from books that I then read and don’t think it aligns with all that well, though it sounds like your theory may be different than that.

[@ranaemonsen1003]

Just recently found you guys, immediately became interested and purchased Don Bradley’s book. One thing I appreciate very much about Mr. Bradley’s experience/talent is his ability to know how to make sense of hundreds of accounts and make inferences and conclusions that bring about greater understanding of things and people. Of listening to him talk about experiences in Joseph Smith’s life, for example the accounts of Joseph’s parents trusting their son’s words, because of how his personality and watching his growth and development his whole growing up. How for example the bone situation- a child who reacts the way he did, and continues to react up until the time of the first vision, Joseph proved himself to be a trustworthy son. His parents had no reason to doubt their son’s account. I myself have always admired Joseph for things he suffered, endured in his life, but not having the mind set of a historian, I’d never taken those various ideas and joined them. I’ve been learning a new way of looking at things, and therefore developing a new profound insight and greater appreciation for Joseph Smith. Thank you Mr. Bradley for sharing your experience, understanding and wisdom.

[@brendakauffman2222]

Want to know the history of the Mormon church check out the book "Rough Stone Rolling," by Richard Layman Bushman. This is written by a Mormon church member and can be purchased in Mormon Bookstores. It confirms the history as written by Fawn M. Brodie, "No Man Knows My History."

[@UtahKent]

Don Bradley is the FACT-MAN. Jonny Harris' approach is 90% spin and 10% "inaccuracies". Is the music intentionally dissonant? Absolutely! Jonny, we'll be here when you get your ego under control. Check with Don Bradley. Come home.

[@ItsSnagret]

100% - it just seems like Johnny is wanting to ease the cognitive dissonance of not having a worldview to stand on after leaving the church and so he wants to build a straw man for other non-believers to affirm his tenuous conclusions.

[@icky5157]

And it’s the 10% inaccuracies that makes you wonder about the framing. As soon as you discover something is cropped and framed, what has been cut out and why don’t they want you to see it?

[@robjaeger2132]

How did he spin it? Were his historical facts wrong? He was actually quite generous in not digging into more core issues with church history.... we are told in the church to NOT read anti LDS literature or question anything. If the church is true, it should be able to hold up against any false claims.

[@joewest7813]

​@@ItsSnagretthat's not a very compassionate or understanding take on johnnys or many other members experiences. I wanted and still want the church to be true so bad. It would mean that all lives deep questions have been answered, I'd know exactly what my role is in life, i could be married in a way that would make my parents proud. I honest to God just don't think it is after studying for years. Ultimately I've had to wrestle with the fact that God never once answered my prayers like moroni 5 states even after reading the BoM 12 times. I could never figure out how prophets can confuse prejudice with divine inspiration. The brethren always talk about being special witnesses of Christ but in a way that hints they've seen God while maintaining plausible deniability. I can't rationalize the sketchyness of polygamy. Latter day prophets don't really seem to heal or prophesy today. I hung on to the hope it was true but eventually accepted that I was being dishonest with my observed experience.

[@ItsSnagret]

@@joewest7813 I sorry my man, i wish you the best going forward. I’ve come to different conclusion and hope that you can eventually come to those too and feel that peace/confirmation.

[@scottmitts6870]

Most people don't realize that Missouri Executive Order 44, (Mormon Extermination Order) wasn't repealed until June 1976. My wife and I were sealed in the Kansas City Temple where one of the common images is the olive branch. It is a great temple experience.

[@shireecox122]

It’s so interesting to me that most anti Mormons don’t include all the horrible things people did to our pioneer ancestors, and everything they sacrificed to get us to where we are today, in their anti Mormon rhetoric. Our forefather and mothers gave all so some of their terribly ungrateful heritage can bash them and rake them over the coals just as bad as their earlier oppressors did. It’s absolutely disgusting and shameful.

[@MichaelSmith-fq3pg]

​​@@shireecox122People didn't start hating those mormon ancestors without cause. Neither side was/is innocent. All these "churches" claim to be Christian but seldom (if ever) are. That includes the Mormon Corporation and its followers.

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg Just following your logic....we will be evicting you from your present domicile due to your lack of perfect innocence. :-)

[@MichaelSmith-fq3pg]

@@DaremoDaremo Do you always dismiss such serious things, or just when it's convenient for you? The regular foibles of people being people and living together within the law is one thing. It's another thing entirely when the governor issues an extermination order against an entire demographic. That doesn't happen without serious reason. Something truly egregious had to be happening for a response like that.

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg Brother Michael Smith, so, truly egregious is it? And what exactly does that mean? And what is the basis for the same?

[@devinolson9053]

As a member who fell away for 7 years and then came back, the best way to make yourself feel better about leaving the church is that your decision is correct, any way you can. I believe this is why JH frames this video the way he does. It would be embarrassing to his friends outside the church if he still had an inkling it was true. I feel bad for him because it will make returning to the church that much more difficult 😢

[@lesgraham7722]

Don Bradley did worse and came back, so that is no reason to not comeback. Anyone can repent and come back.

[@jacobjohnson4580]

That may have been true for you, but it's not true for everyone. Some of us don't believe it at all anymore. We don't have an inkling any more than you have an inkling santa is real (I don't mean to equate the church to santa, I'm just using that analogy because we all understand it).

[@devinolson9053]

@@jacobjohnson4580 I like your analogy! But I didn’t say this was everyone’s experience. I said I believe this is Johnny’s experience and that is based on the way he frames the video. Just my opinion.

[@devinolson9053]

@@lesgraham7722 sorry, didn’t see your comment till now. I agree with you. Anyone can come back it’s just more difficult when you’ve declared something the opposite from the “rooftops” like Johnny has

[@1pt21jigawatt]

I have a nephew who left the church and now is constantly seeking validation to anyone who sees things his way. They almost invariably seek likeminded anti's to commiserate everything they feel is wrong with the church. He used to be a happy kid, now he looks miserable.

[@sherriedix5837]

I know I should be more charitable like Brad but I always seem to respond like Cardon. Great discussion guys!

[@GMMXX80]

What an interesting perspective, like a Sunday School answer

[@WARDRADIO]

That’s because you are experienced, wise, and see the current battlefield for what it is.

[@james8996]

​​@@WARDRADIOThe Mormon Church is nothing but lies, in Fact it's not a church at all , The mormons make up lies Every Sunday Worshiping Satan, Isaiah 5:13, tells us that the church that Jesus started went into Captivity So that Disproves The Mormons just 1 Scripture, The Mormons say that Jesus visited America after his Resurrection ( ACTS 1:1-3,9-11 Proves that's a lie, The Mormons Say that they lived in heaven ( John 3:13 Proves that's a lie, The Mormons Teach that a Israelite family Migrated from Jerusalem to America in 600BC ( Jeremiah 15:1-4) disproves that lie, The Mormons teach that ( Ezekiel 37:16 the Stick of Ephraim is the book of Mormon Ezekiel 37:22 Disproves that lie, The Mormons are teaching that they the priesthood ( Exodus 19;1-6 Disproves that lie, The book of Mormon teach that Negroes were cursed With black skin ( Song of Solomon 1:6 , Revelation 1:14-15 So GOD is a Curse because the Bible tells us clearly that GOD is black Jesus is black the 12 tribes of Israel are black, Adam was black So it's obvious That Joseph Smith never read the Bible, and Last the Mormons say that GOD appeared to Joseph Smith ( Amos 3:1-2, Psalm 147:19-20 Say Joseph Smith lied because the Bible Clearly tells us that's the GOD of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has never dealt with no other Nation of people but the ( 12 tribes of Israel a Nation of Black people, So the Mormons do one thing very well and that's lie

[@paulblack1799]

A better title of Johnny's screed would have been, 'How I renegotiated my understanding of history to convince myself that my waning faith is a positive thing, and now wish to lead you down the garden path so you will see as I see and I will be accepted.'

[@wes2176]

Lol!

[@WARDRADIO]

Hoh, snap. This is great!

[@ItsSnagret]

Facts lol

[@Themanyfacesofego]

He is right to lead the Mormons ' down the garden path ' seeing as they've been led up it by their leaders!

[@paulblack1799]

@@Themanyfacesofego 😆😆😆😆😆 hahaha, Ego. We have been led, by Christ, to happier more fulfilled lives and will continue to follow Him. Thanks.

[@derek_davidson]

Saints Unscripted had a really good reaction to this

[@carlavegas887]

Yeah I came across that one. Pretty good indeed.

[@sethhousley5940]

This is the most egg-shelled-walking ward radio episode I’ve ever watched. Whether Johnny deliberately had inaccuracies or not, it was inaccurate. And the visuals are very misleading,

[@creb2429]

so true

[@davidgafo]

Mormons that know all of the real stuff and still believe are not really that different from flat earthers.

[@nello1591]

What inaccuracies? According to the church maybe they claim they are inaccurate but according to history, plainly accurate

[@sethhousley5940]

@@nello1591 you didn’t watch the video did you.

[@sethhousley5940]

@@davidgafo guys who make fun of LDS without knowing even 1% of our beliefs are no different from everything atheists hate about history.

[@edu.santos]

The Uto Aztecan reconstructed homeland was in between California and Utah (aztlan), so apparently some of their cultural descendants moved from the current US territory to Mexico and El Salvador, founding the Aztec Empire, the Toltecs, etc, while some related groups remained along the way

[@shibainferno]

The beautiful thing about the gospel of Jesus Christ is Johnny can change his mind again in the future and be welcomed back wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, that video will probably have fewer views than his original 😂

[@waynenewcombe7600]

He's got like 1000 times more subscribers than this small time channel.

[@shibainferno]

@@waynenewcombe7600 yes but even if Johnny posts a comeback video on his own channel, it would have fewer views

[@krismurphy7711]

You know The Statistic? Adults who leave the Church stay out. Once they feel they have been lied to and misled, they are gone.

[@toddbender3463]

​@@krismurphy7711 Mormon adult- never does any of their own studying about topics that have been raised and answered for decades before they were even born..... Ex Mormon adult- "they lied to me 😭😭"

[@StompMom5]

​@@krismurphy7711 Actually, people who leave the church end up spending their lives obsessing over it🤷. They spend every waking moment thinking about it, hating on it, looking for videos to argue with. They actually spend far more time "inside" the church than they ever did as active members. I personally find it hilarious 😂. If people actually studied the doctrine the same way they study the anti doctrine they would have understood the gospel more 👍😊

[@derickocampo2880]

I just watched Johnny's attempt to unravel the "true" story of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Let me tell you, his narrative reeks of sensationalism and a twisted agenda. It's clear he's out to make a splash, but his portrayal of Joseph Smith and the church's history is far from balanced or accurate. He claims to have found the "truth" about the Book of Mormon's origins and Joseph Smith's character, calling him a brilliant storyteller turned conman, unrepentant polygamist, power-hungry manipulator, and even a destroyer of printing presses. Seriously? His attempt to paint him as some sort of cultish villain is laughable at best. Oh, and let's not forget his oh-so-enlightened stance on anyone who disagrees with his newfound "wisdom" being brainwashed. What an arrogant and dismissive way to belittle the beliefs of countless individuals who have found meaning, community, and solace within the church. I see through his smug demeanor and his claims of feeling "free" now that he's left the church. Newsflash: leaving a faith community doesn't automatically make you an expert on its teachings or the experiences of its members. His self-righteous attitude screams of someone trying to validate their choices by tearing down what they once believed in. Unlike him, I walked away from the church as a teenager but managed to hold onto some respect for the community that shaped me. I've had my own journey of exploring the world, education, religions and languages, and guess what? It led me back to the church community, which I've found to be a beacon of stability and support in a chaotic world. So, Johnny, should enjoy his KZbin platforms and Emmy awards, but don't think for a second that his one-sided tirade is enlightening anyone. His attempt to diminish the importance of faith communities in today's tumultuous world is misguided, and frankly, his smug smile and supposed expertise can join the rest of the garbage he's spewing in that handbasket headed for oblivion. In a time when understanding and empathy are needed more than ever, his narrow-minded approach is just adding to the noise. He should try engaging in meaningful conversation instead of shallow sensationalism if he ever hopes to make a real impact. But hey, I won't hold my breath.

[@Normankennedy-j3q]

His narrative is no more twisted or sensational than Joe Smith's.

[@dcarts5616]

⁠@@Normankennedy-j3qSo you agree, that JH’s narrative is twisted and sensational. Very nice of you to admit that.

[@istj509]

Thank you for your comment! Very insightful and well-written analysis.

[@johnnytucker6709]

I'm gonna preface the opinion I'm about to give, with a brief exposition that hopefully adds some credibility to that opinion... I am not a Mormon. I wouldn't even call myself a Christian. However, I have so much respect for people of the Christian faith (I was raised as a Christian) that I would never disrespect it nor intentionally disparage it in anyway. And also, even though I don't believe, I would never attempt to encourage others to let go of their faith. I'm fascinated with the Bible, particularly the new testament, and I love learning about different interpretations and applications of Scripture, and how it shapes not just a single person's perspective, but also how it shapes society, and a society's morals and values. So when I came across JHs video, I thought "ok since I know nothing about the church of LDS or Mormonism, why not" (btw I'm still not entirely sure about what the difference is with those two labels but I would assume that one is the name of the church and the other is the name of the doctrine? Please correct me if I'm wrong) Now here's my opinion of JHs video, and of your comment. Typically when someone loses their faith, as far as I've noticed, they become bitter and hostile towards it due to a feeling of being tricked into believing something that in large part dictated how they should live their life and the dire consequences for not doing so. So they tend to lose respect for that belief system and sometimes they will attack it aggressively through mockery and an appeal to empirical evidence that seems to contradict a lot of that belief system. It's rude, disrespectful, unnecessary, offensive etc.. But it's not obvious to me that JHs video is guilty of any of that. Actually, it almost seemed like he was trying to defend Mormons to a certain extent, by rationalizing their faith in Joseph Smith's story, even though he no longer believed it himself. And as an outsider looking in, I can tell you that a lot of the details concerning Mormonism and the Book of Mormons, would be easy to make fun of and ridicule as a laughable work of fiction. But he didn't do that. He seemed to respectfully explain his understanding of Joseph Smith's story and how it ultimately lead to his exit from the church. Was it necessary? Probably not. Was there an underlying malicious purpose for the video? Tbh, I think it's possible, but most likely no, imo... It seemed like he just wanted to tell his story and at the same time try to show Mormons in a more sympathetic light, instead of as a bunch of weirdos that believe some crazy shit. But your comment on the other hand seems angry and filled with contempt for someone that it seems like you should want to pray for. Your comment does nothing positive for Mormons or the church of LDS. He addressed Mormonism far more respectfully than most people would have in the same situation, and you still attacked him for the crime of telling people why he no longer believed. You mention the need for understanding and empathy, but in that very same sentence you call him narrow minded and say he's just "adding to the noise", (which is just a really strange sentence to string together). But my point is that your comment is far more inflammatory and aggressive than his video was, and maybe you should take your own advice and try to have a "meaningful conversation" with non-believers, instead of angrily insulting one because you disagree with his opinions. I doubt Joseph Smith would have been able to spread his message effectively and attract such a large following in such a short time if he had done what you did in this comment. Just sayin Anyways... that's just my opinion on it and I only offered my opinion because I think that I have a fairly unbiased and specific perspective that might be useful to you, but since it's unsolicited and super long, maybe you'll just be irritated and dismissive, who knows....

[@IJN-33]

I just need to appreciate Cardon's commitment to keeping the video moving. Made this video much more engaging while still allowing for great discussion.

[@wbball15]

Cardon is why the videos are sooooooooo long.

[@Allthoseopposed]

@@wbball15 But also why they are so damn entertaining!

[@DCunkown]

Cardon is why I can't take these guys seriously.

[@davidmlowery]

He worked for Vox but left for what ever reason, wink, wink, nudge, nudge...

[@DrNES73]

'Husbands, love your wives, even as Brad also defended Johnny Harris, and gave himself for him.' -Ephesians 5:25 🙃

[@dalfar1161]

I have never understood why treasure hunting is a criticism. Everyone at the time was looking for treasure or gold. If I thought there was a treasure around my house I’d look for it too. I don’t even find the magic/witchcraft claims to be all that damning either, assuming they have any validity in the first place.

[@kevinedward118]

Because telling people that you use seer stone to find treasure is demonic. Becuase not ever producing any treasure is fraud. Because being arrested for treasure digging documents the offense to society and state of mind of Joseph Smith.

[@tiffnickk]

I feel like in 200 years people are gonna talk about geocaching that way 😂

[@brettfidler5656]

To start, like fraud today, treasure digging was illegal.

[@mahonri69]

@@brettfidler5656 can you mention your sources pleas?

[@dalfar1161]

@brettfidler5656 treasure digging has nothing to do with fraud unless you commit fraud in the course of treasure digging. Also, I can't imagine it being illegal since California exists.

[@riskkerroo724]

I’m literally so happy that Don Bradley and ppl like him are members and use their amazing intellect and delve into church history and doctrine. The insights we would have missed out on blows my mind!

[@Greg-McIver]

Everybody needs to read "By Means of the Urim and Thummim" by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville. It slays the Stone in the Hat narrative helps you understand that "If the anti-mormons are making stuff up about this what else are they making stuff up about?" Would love it if you have them on. Hannah Stoddard and others like her have far more correct information The Real Joseph Smith than this supposed professional journalist. Cute graphics and good storytelling is just that. The truth is the truth.

[@krismurphy7711]

So The LDS Church and current Prophet Nelson, who say Joseph used a Rock and a Hat, are wrong/lying??? "dumb dumb dumb"

[@michaelhutchings6602]

Hannah Stoddard is a right wing apostate who believes Russel M Nelson is a false prophet.

[@shireecox122]

I agree 100%. I don’t care what other’s say about the heartlanders. At least they give Joseph Smith the best respect of any other group out there. There’s way less speculation on how he did things, because they stick with what Joseph said, did, and knew.

[@brendakauffman2222]

The read "Rough Stone Rolling," by Richard Layman Bushman, a Mormon church member and historian that the Mormon Church asked to write the full history of Joseph Smith.

[@paulcrave3112]

I think that because Joseph Smith was not affiliated with a sect, that may be why he’s saying he wasn’t religious.

[@blendbeast7322]

Its 3am. I am forced to choose to between dunking on antis or sleeping. Give me an alley oop baby.

[@madmanmanx]

You are strong and mighty…

[@Killthesefears]

BAM

[@DannyAGray]

Middle of the night, man, welcome to my everyday

[@krismurphy7711]

So when are you going to do any "dunking".....I'll wait.

[@DannyAGray]

@@krismurphy7711 I think you enjoy it too much; it's not any fun with you.

[@dbat480]

The guy opened by talking about Lucy Mack Smith and showed a picture of Emma. Lol. Loses most all credibility.

[@WARDRADIO]

That would be our producer.... we'll dock his pay... oh wait.

[@mickski548]

@@gordianknot9595lol you antis love to be dramatic usually sitting back and chilling out is a better option

[@mickski548]

@@gordianknot9595 if you truly believe that, what’s the point of watching these videos? If you already know the “truth” why keep coming back to see what’s goin on? Are you still interested in the church? What motivates you to watch these videos and crap on them when in reality you wouldn’t go on these guys show and debate them

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@gordianknot9595 Brother Knot. What exactly is common sense? The way you define it? Or the way a Japanese person living in Japan would define it? And on and on. In my common sense, we are eternal spirits who chose to follow Christ from before the Creation to come to this realm to gain a body and continue in our eternal progression.

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@gordianknot9595 So, Brother Knot, what is the procedure, that is the same no matter where you go, regarding discovering evidence of Israelite migration to the Americas?

[@joshleenall]

It is amazing what people are willing to believe.

[@stevenfoerster9095]

This video needed more Don Bradley and less of Cardon Ellis' knee-jerk defensiveness. I would invite anyone to review Jared Halverson's "Dont Let a Good Faith Crisis Go to Waste" before responding to perceived religious opposition.

[@alienwarex51i3]

Half the people in the room are hyper fixating on every little possible thing in the video that could be perceived as a "gotcha" or "anti," with Brad even going so far as to think that Joseph's little head bobble in an animation was sinisterly snuck in to subconsciously unsettle you about Joseph Smith; and the other half are actually trying to look at this video in context.

[@matildabanana3516]

I do like the varying voices and tempering the more emotional people in this group. What other reason would they do that head bob though? It obviously takes effort to put it in, and it is in fact unsettling. They know what they’re doing when they make these kinds of videos.

[@alienwarex51i3]

@@matildabanana3516 Almost as if he is gesturing while speaking to a large crowd right? Arms wide open and moving up and down slightly with a slow head meandering, as Johnny describes that Joseph Smith is "becoming a prophet." Anyway, they can't watch the video without pausing to talk about how Johnny's eyes are "below center" (they aren't), again implying that he's trying to express some subliminal uneasiness. There are many other characters that are animated throughout the video because just going picture to picture without animation feels like a PowerPoint and really dulls the mind after 5 minutes. I don't even know why this needs to be discussed, these just aren't things that people outside of the Church pick up on when watching Johnny's video. It really seems to highlight a sort of victim complex, even a "persecution fetish."

[@annroe1088]

Thank you for getting right on this "The real story of the mormon church" I thought he was hilarious and stupid that he goes on with so much research out there. . I'm just on my soapbox how much this stuff deceives people. My husband believed like this, But is a little bit smarter now but still isn't back in the church. I'm Thankful for the truth you put out there .

[@krismurphy7711]

Your Husband is not suffering from DENIAL. ALL THE PEOPLE ON THIS VIDEO, apparently don't know the Joseph Smith Moneydigging Timeline. 1819-1827 BEFORE...AFTER The First Vision and BEFORE and AFTER and DURING the Moroni Visits

[@WARDRADIO]

We're glad to help! In the end, Johnny lacks the meekness necessary to believe. Christ wasn't flashy or a know-it-all, he was lowly. Johnny Harris and the AntiMo Inc will always have more money, more marketing and more mojo. But Christ and His Church have the truth.

[@krismurphy7711]

Antis have more money? HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I thought The Church had over $100,000,000,000??? @@WARDRADIO

[@krismurphy7711]

The Church has 100,000 Teens out knocking on doors???@@WARDRADIO

[@krismurphy7711]

You have THE TRUTH IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES...YOU DENY THE TRUTHS...FACTS. That makes you a LIAR@@WARDRADIO

[@treystone9464]

50:14 ... he just lied, the original wording of the Introduction to the Book of Mormon said, "the principal ancestors of the American Indians.” Anti-Mormons see the word "Principal" which means "the most important" (the principal violinist of the orchestra) and confuse it with "Principle" which means "single" and "unique". (Edit: Oh, you got it)

[@krismurphy7711]

WHERE IS ANY ....ANY DNA TO BACK UP "ANCESTOR"?????

[@Themanyfacesofego]

I see the word 'Principal' as meaning the most important, and actually a majority of the ancestors. 'Among' ( i.e the 2007 wording in the intro to the BOM) could be a minority though. The church seems to be trying to create space for more than one view here.

[@treystone9464]

@@krismurphy7711 Its called Deflection to shift the focus away from Johnny's attempted jab. There is no known information about the DNA of Book of Mormon peoples, and even if their genetic profile were known, there are sound scientific reasons that it might remain undetected. Indeed, if Lehi was merely a "Principal" ancestor, an important one but not the only or original one, and the Lamanites were mainly the descendants of the Clovis, bottle necking and genetic drift can eliminate Lehi's DNA, even if we knew what it was, but we don't. You should follow Johnny's advice and visit FAIR sometime. There is new data all the time, the Clovis Complex dates much younger than previously thought and that Clovis has a much shorter duration than we thought, they aren't likely the "Principle" ancestors of all South Americans. Chili was founded long before anyone came over any ice bridge. Yet, where's the DNA evidence of those people?

[@krismurphy7711]

HAHAHAHAHA.... So you are pinning your DNA hopes on tracking down some of Lehi's DNA amongst the entire South, Central, and North American Indigenous Peoples???? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Were there not Three Migrations in the Book of Mormon from "The Holyland" ???? And were there not MILLIONS OF THESE PEOPLES AT THE END OF THE BOOK OF MORMON....AND THE LAMANITES (cursed dark skin Jews) SURVIVED!!!??? Talk about deflection...rising to BS and total denial. @@treystone9464

[@krismurphy7711]

You mean The Church is watering down revelation/doctrine???? Wow...BACKTRACKING@@Themanyfacesofego

[@jerry_phillips]

14:16 sounds like Don went from complexity to informed simplicity or from antithesis to synthesis or from the Fall to the Atonement. Pick your analogy.

[@123mneil]

So if you visit the comments section in Johnny's video there are a lot of people that comment that they think it is fair reporting. I understand that carden isn't happy with the video. I also don't think some exmos would be happy (too much benefit of the doubt for JS). It seemed pretty middle ground to me. I was bracing myself for a one sided take when I saw Johnny's video pop up in my KZbin feed and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't.

[@Hundmist]

When I was a little kid, I played outside a lot. Always exploring the woods, hills, and in the dirt where I lived - Seattle area, then Tucson, Phoenix, and Denver. I was a lucky kid as I would find money, coins, old toy cars all the time. A treasure hunter in my own right.

[@krismurphy7711]

Did you find a cool rock...put it in some dark place and then tell ADULTS you could see where treasure was? Be so convincing that they followed YOUR direction to where to dig...and then again did they believe you when nothing was found? And you were able to do this over and over and over for 7-8 YEARS!!!???

[@jacobmayberry1126]

​@@krismurphy7711thank you for doing God's work.

[@krismurphy7711]

Assuming Joseph and HIS Church was/is a huge fraud, then maybe I am. I make no such claims. I do try to keep an open mind and be sensitive to "promptings"...nothing has made me feel like I'm doing the wrong thing, just the opposite. @@jacobmayberry1126

[@treystone9464]

@@krismurphy7711 The treasure hunting myth is refuted.

[@krismurphy7711]

BS....it's acknowledge by The Church!!! LOL @@treystone9464

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

Wow, Johnny's video is approaching 2 million views....That's a lot of impact. I"m glad he was pretty accurate in his presentation.

[@kristinpruett7733]

There are so many falsehoods in that video. The first thing is a picture of emma and not Lucy smith. From there it just goes downhill.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

@@kristinpruett7733 Well, he's hitting 2 million views... So he got a picture mixed up? Kinda like the Church did with all of it's visual depictions of the dictation process for its' entire history up to about 5 years ago?

[@ABSTRACTSHNITZEL]

@@kristinpruett7733 Well the picture of white Jesus isn't accurate, but that's the only picture of Jesus I've seen in an LDS church. Does that make the LDS church have many falsehoods too?

[@kristinpruett7733]

@@ABSTRACTSHNITZEL seriously? Comparing someone's artistic ability to a real photograph of someone that is the wrong person. Ok then.

[@kristinpruett7733]

@@rodneyjamesmcguire ah yes rodney, I see you on a lot of threads. It is true there are a lot of coverupa and falsehoods. None of which were brought up by johnny I suppose since his research team is failing him. Could've been a great documentary, but it's the worst thing hes put out. I would not be proud if I was him.

[@ashleyingoldsby]

Johnny's a super talented youtuber and artist, and I usually agree with Brad on everything, but Cardon is 100% right on this one.

[@ivonna.tinkle]

I believe Jonny Harris worked for Vox not Vice news.

[@colewarner]

The dude that's just hating on Johnny is hard for me to stomach. if it's wrong, please fight it with logic and counter evidence. Raging at the guy drives people like me away

[@Hundmist]

Don Bradley’s book on the large stolen section - it was way more than 116 pages and he explains thoroughly in his book, is very insightful. Worth reading. Great discussion guys. Include Shaun Bailey’s comments in a follow up video. We would have loved to have heard more of his comments.

[@brendakauffman2222]

Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Layman Bushman, a Mormon church member and historian. It confirms the history as written in the book, "No Man Knows My History."

[@WordsofMormon]

Deep down inside, all these ExMos have a common problem. They were first ensnared by some kind of sin which they were unwilling to renounce… The next step is always to justify it. At this point the shield and protection of the Holy Ghost is removed. They then become vulnerable to the lies of the Anti Mobsters and are blinded into a belief that they are now on a righteous quest, which eventually is followed by a realization of their error, in which crossroads is presented to knowingly fight against the church, or to seek redemption

[@blackhazzee]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[@racealexander1660]

I don't think that's exactly right. I do think it's a loss of the spirit, which can come from sinning but can also come from laziness or even from diving in and listening to anti voices. Heber J Grant, apostle and prophet prayed every day that he wouldn't lose his testimony, which means that if we're not actively building and defending our faith, we can be suseptible to losing the spirit and then our testimonies.

[@jonathanwhite8904]

I would saw that I am a friend of Johnny's. I served with him in the mission. He did the photography at my wedding for crying out loud. Haven't spoken in years, but I can definitely tell you that he is a sincere person and believes what he says. He does what he does because he wants to help people. I don't agree with him on most things, never did. But he is an open minded and sincere person.

[@oshemer5066]

Why aren’t you uploading to Spotify anymore? Please do.

[@dfre102]

I second this. I get that I can get more by watching, but I prefer listening when I'm at work in a warehouse. I've been running the videos through KZbin in my pocket, but I'd love to be able to turn my screen off and save data while listening 😅

[@edwarddiviney5226]

The problem with the urim and thumin is that R. M. Nelson now has given his support for the Stone in the Hat.

[@dcarts5616]

Support for the possible use of tools to translate via the gift and power of god. Sounds good!

[@krismurphy7711]

support is not the right word. Endorsement or Confirmation are more exact....and hard to squirm or snark out of.

[@teralynyoung-ux5ws]

We look at all the information in the world on the tiny computers in our hands and have to find shade to see the screen when it’s bright outside. Lucky for us, we have a brightness slider. Rocks don’t have that. God is creative in using what He has to work with! 😊

[@1961Tuber]

The Problem with The Rock in a Hat "translation" method was Joseph's use of a Rock in a Hat to lie, deceive, con, defraud people by telling them he could SEE buried treasure in the rock...guiding victims to a specific location. NOTHING EVER FOUND!!!@@teralynyoung-ux5ws

[@nerd_patriot_disciple]

For portions of the translation Joseph used a seer stone in a hat. Moses used a stick . God has prophets do miraculous things with basic items some times.

[@salemthorup9536]

I'm gaining more and more appreciation for those who leave the church but don't stop talking about it. They probably have a better chance of coming back than anyone.

[@krismurphy7711]

Why would I come back? Joseph's lying, fraud, sexual predation won't change...history is history

[@ericreed4535]

The math doesn't support your opinion. Most I know are healthier and have more peace being "out". This removes any desire to return. I know some cool believers though and wish them well. I hope someday they drink from the intellectual honesty well. It's so refreshing 🙏.

[@Allthoseopposed]

That is so nice to hear, just that you can better understand those who leave. Thank you. That’s all many of us really need is to be heard and validated. There are true issues and concerns.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@ericreed4535 “give me free” (Amistad)

[@harshitgarg419]

healthier and more at peace comes with being "in" we need to get people to see thar@@ericreed4535

[@kaitlyndobson3281]

Yall need to do an update because johnny Harris did another mormon video

[@theincrediblerodofiron304]

That study of 10% went to church was based on some historians making some calculation back in the 1990s. The problem is no church kept attendance. We dont know. But we we do have record of are meeting houses and chapels that were being built. Every town had multiple church buildings.

[@jonathanschroeder9]

Sorry but Jonny's "research" seemed to just come from sub Reddit and nothing more.

[@dcarts5616]

Or your typical John D deceptively named podcast. Honestly, with JH’s huge team I thought it would have been better. He will help many more out of the church I guess. People looking for an out will find it, people looking for a well organized community of faithful Christ believing disciples will look for and find reasons to stay. Free agency has truly become exactly what it says it is; an opportunity for people to choose to believe or to choose not to. It’s pretty simple.

[@markhayward7411]

Have you read, No Man Knows My History, Rough Stone Rolling or In Sacred Silence? I thought it was pretty good. Sources are accounted for too. Worth reading. I heard the arguments in the books in his video.

[@zandersturgill]

Good job guys. My thought: Johnny Harris isn't famous for simple summary videos. His videos are more like essays. He presents an argument to prove a point. In this case, it's that learning Church History should lead you to avoid the Church. That's a message we just can't agree with, since we have learned the history and have come out with faith. I'm happy you guys brought Don onto this, because he's the best example of this. Now, since Johnny has a message in this video, when he attaches this with a title that says the "REAL History" and a thumbnail that says "What Mormons REALLY Believe" then we've got to take issue with that. Look at the credits and he's got a huge team on this. It's not a simple "why I left" video. Things like his camera angles and maybe even his shirt are intentional. I work in the film industry, and professionals purposefully change camera angles to build that "tension". Here's another reason why this isn't simply a story of someone leaving the faith: He did that in his last video. His video "Why I left" was his personal story of leaving the faith. I didn't watch it because I understood that was his story. This video is different. This video is being presented as the official history of the Church. And since his last video got six million views, it's the right thing for us to respond to this one, since this one will likely surpass 6 million views. This will likely become THE MOST popular critical video about the Church on KZbin. And unfortunately, it's got some key things wrong about us in it, and it's how how millions will perceive us.

[@davidgafo]

Mormons that DO know the history of the LDS Church and still believe are even more delusional than flat earthers

[@Thehaystack7999]

Well done. I wouldn’t be surprised if that “motivation” Johnny feels is the Spirit reaching out to him. But what sparked this readdress of his leaving? Likely due to that motive, he obviously spent a lot of time hurt over this and still must have some conflict which he is probably attempting to resolve through his own justification. He has conflict, he wants to feel like he has been fair, but he feels betrayed. Because if that he does not apply teachings he gained such as forgiveness, repentance and will only endure to his own ends. The fact the conflict is still there now, shows a sensitivity to truth, but also he has built up so much, started a life, has a spouse he may lose if he chose to apply faith and with the stakes soo high now, he is pressured to address and does so openly to seek validation and make it harder to return, he casts additional weight towards his own desires to numb the call to return. Perhaps.

[@Allthoseopposed]

Is it justification? When you make an effort to sort things out and gain more clarity on something is that what you are doing? Justifying. If those of us who lost our faith by setting out to disprove accusations and help others in their faith found evidence that our integrity would no longer allow us to continue professing, justifying. We didn’t ask for this. We were not looking for this. Most often it was the opposite. We are the apologists, the seekers, those who trusted truth would prevail!

[@harshitgarg419]

then talk to your own community and seek answers and be willing to change his mindset is the solution

[@freyast2213]

I remember hearing his story about when he left & it was very different, not from people, but from what’s put on the internet about people who’ve left. He basically said he left almost as a believer, but didn’t want to raise his son in this way.

[@peterblair4448]

Holy cow another Don episode! Man you guys are cool. I love your videos

[@WARDRADIO]

More to come!

[@timmiestabrnak]

Are cows really holy? Does that really respect Christ? Is this video (and their others)being dishonest & disingenuous really cool?

[@Eagle_Powers]

Joseph Smith had a “seer” stone as early as 1820 according to the official LDS articles and foot notes. So what was he doing with it all that time before Moroni came? He was treasure digging. Every time Cardon gets so offended and makes a big sigh when treasure digging comes up the next thing you know they are all talking about how Joseph Smith actually did do treasure digging. Cardon why do you keep saying it’s an anti Mormon trope and get so defensive and then turn around and talk about how he literally did treasure digging. And he used some rock that he found in the ground according to official church info long before Moroni came along. I would love to point to what the church has said here but it won’t let me. Do some research for “Book of Mormon Translation”. I wish I could tell you where to find it but stupid KZbin won’t let me. Let’s just put it this way. It’s an official article from the LDS church.

[@krismurphy7711]

Joseph Smith ADMITS TO SINNING EVEN AFTER HIS FACE TO FACE WITH GOD & JESUS & MORONI. WTH!!!??? GREAT PROPHET MATERIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Eagle_Powers]

@@krismurphy7711 Good point.

[@brendakauffman2222]

Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Layman Bushman, a Mormon church member and historian and can be bought in Mormon Bookstores.

[@Eagle_Powers]

@@brendakauffman2222 What about it? Are saying I should read it and for what purpose?

[@ryanbradley3293]

I remember seeing JH’s video on why he left, and in it he said he didn’t want to become a “raging anti” and then he made this video like 6 months later😂

[@scottmitts6870]

Brad is my hero, he should have been cast as captain Moroni in the Book of Mormon movies!

[@cinsains1957]

Especially appreciate Luke’s testimony at the end! Thank you!

[@ingramwifey2016]

You guys crack me up 😂😂 love the discussion!!

[@vaughangarrick]

People can leave the church but they can't leave the church alone

[@t.j._edits9669]

1:40:20 - I don't know where in the CES letter and Johnny's video does it imply that the people who believe are stupid. It may imply that people were duped, but that's not an insult to intelligence, nor should somebody take it as such. One other thing to note is that when it comes to leaving it's a two way street. If exmos are complaining that staying in the church is stupid, that would be re-enforced by the fact those who leave the church are labeled as well, "apostates" "lazy learners", the fragmentation of families because of the beliefs that members hold. Same with "why won't exmormons leave us alone" when there's literally a call to action to proselyte and bring people to Christ, including in-actives and people who left entirely, as well as familial pressure. If leaving the church were as simple as pressing the unsubscribe button there would be less contention. But because of how fervent the beliefs and doctrines are, any sort of neutrality one side would expect from the other I think is rarely possible. I've since found belonging in Christianity after leaving, and it's helping me to make peace and accept the good that came from my church upbringing, but even being Christian is something I fear will stir the pot and ostracize me from my loved ones. This is a very tough issue, and I respect and thank you each of you for your perspectives. I hope that someday there can be a culture of understanding from all parties for those going through those struggles.

[@WARDRADIO]

I think Don made a good point, ExMos often think they've found the great secret, because they know somethings most LDSs don't. That usually gets them to stop looking. I dug up troubling things too, but I'm glad I didn't stop. Because the more I looked the truer the Church became. I think some highly toxic and vocal antiMos poison the well pretty hard. It's hard to hear the kind and respectful ExMo through the hateful din.

[@DaremoDaremo]

Brother t.j._ edits, wait, you are claiming to be a Christian now as if to imply you weren't a Christian when you were a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. How did you manage to pull off not being a Christian while being a member of a church that bears Christ's name and is headed by Jesus Christ Himself?

[@krismurphy7711]

TRUTHS ARE TRUE....FACTS ARE FACTS.... Moneydigging (lying and fraud). Polygamy (sexual predation and lying).... Land Speculation-Lot Sales (profiteering)... Bank Fraud (Federal Law Violations) .... False Prophecies..."Go to Kirtland"...."Go to Missouri"...."go to Nauvoo"...... Lying to The Church about Polygamy....Destruction of a Newspaper Printing Press (Violation of The First Amendment)@@WARDRADIO

[@t.j._edits9669]

⁠@@DaremoDaremo I came to that conclusion through learning about the core tenants of Christianity and what separates the church from other Christian denominations, mainly Grace and the Triune concept of God. When I was a member I did actions out of fear, which would have made me a follower only by name. I have more of an enthusiasm and an enabling power to practice now that I’ve come to a personal understanding of Christ through the New Testament.

[@WARDRADIO]

BS. I call BS. No member does things out of fear. BS. Go harass some other religion. You evang haters are the absolute worst christians.

[@Allthoseopposed]

Thank you all for your good faith interpretation on this one. I do have to say, I’m a smidge disappointed in Don’s lack of correction on a few things but I get it, it’s Carson’s show, He has to play the game.

[@mikedavis8880]

Yeah I would like to hear from Don more. I guess I'm a nerd and want to get straight to the nitty gritty from the expert... but I do like the vibe of the lads. Cheers 🥂

[@ChrisWhite-fm8tg]

Non biased here. Sorry guys but he was actually fair in the presentation. It hurts your feelings perhaps, but he is entitled to his opinion, beliefs and choice of lifestyle.

[@TheAlchemist1]

Phew... glad we got a non-biased take from Chris White. It was a total toss up for me before I read your non-biased youtube comment.

[@k4949]

If he's saying stuff that has already been debunked it's not really fair.

[@MissMadisonRuby]

It’s not really fair if he’s being misleading… 🥴🥴

[@ChrisWhite-fm8tg]

Humm shocker that I have an unpopular position here. Believe what you want.

[@brendakauffman2222]

@@MissMadisonRuby Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Layman Bushman, a Mormon church member and historian shows that what Johnny said in his video didn't mis-represent the history. It's a book that can be bought in Mormon bookstore and which the church approves.

[@devinbateman243]

6:10 Carden I challenge you to take on the exact same challenge your asking Johnny to do. Approach what you would call an "anti mormon" with "eyes wide open, not just towards [horrible, surface level apologetics], but towards the whole entire picture,.... and, maybe this narrative I've been told about [anti mormons] isn't bad,... and really the [anti mormons] are not the ones standing in the way."

[@WARDRADIO]

We aren't just told some narrative about AntiMormons, bruh. We experience them daily. They are vile humans.

[@rusochileno639]

⁠@@WARDRADIO are you really characterizing all people that don’t agree with your beliefs as vile humans? That’s pretty vile

[@DannyAGray]

More Midnight videos like this! Gives me something to watch on my drive, yo!

[@mickski548]

You better not be watching video while driving you could die

[@THE_KlNG]

Im watching this at the gym

[@DannyAGray]

@@mickski548 I can neither confirm nor deny....

[@jonathanduran8669]

8:15 You’re right he didn’t start with that, because he knows that doing so would turn people off at the start and may not watch his video. That’s why he saved exactly that statement for the end!

[@Thehaystack7999]

1:36:37 thank you DON! I have been saying this for years! Excellent!

[@thomasveech7456]

Woooo! You've talked about Johnny before. I've seen his video. Good to see you guys discuss this.

[@madmanmanx]

Word

[@jordanturner4783]

First, just got to say Don, i’m on a quest to find every video of you because your mind inspires me. I also really love how you guys disagree. It is so refreshing to see a discussion within gospel/historical context and not being afraid to say your opinion. A lot of the times I’m a little nervous to put anything out there cause I’m afraid people assume that I am representing the church as a whole with any statement that I make. So thanks for your banter. It is freeing in a way.

[@mahonri69]

Light, light, light aka Eternal Truth, is there only for the honest, humble seeker. Eventually he will return to the first love,I hope and pray for hem and for al true seekers.

[@krismurphy7711]

"Eternal Truth" actually includes ALL TRUTH....even inconvenient FACTS. Young Joseph Smith's dishonest, fraudulent moneydigging is a FACT...and a TRUTH. Frankly I believe it is a disqualifying truth-fact.

[@establishingzion688]

This morning in my scripture study, I found an awesome Joseph Smith quote about persecution from apostates, "Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates after turning from the faith of Christ, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes. From apostates the faithful have received the severest persecutions... From what source emanated the principle which has ever been manifest by apostates from the true Church to persecute with double diligence, and seek with double perseverance, to destroy those whom they once professed to love, with whom they once communed, and with whom they once covenanted to strive with every power in righteousness to obtain the rest of God? Perhaps our brethren will say the same that caused Satan to seek to overthrow the kingdom of God, because he himself was evil, and God’s kingdom is holy." -Joseph Smith Jr., TPJS Pg. 67-68

[@WARDRADIO]

This is awesome. Great find!

[@istj509]

I love that! Thank you for sharing! ❤

[@silent229]

okay. now Johnny Harris should do the 'real story of Catholics' and then the 'Real story of Islam' and then the 'REAL story of the Jews', and so on. Since he doesn't mind making videos of things he doesn't believe in.

[@Clarkwilcox8]

Brad, where can we learn more about that linguistic evidence you mentioned?

[@bradwitbeck]

Probably the best place to start would be to google Brian Stubbs, Changes in Languages from Nephi to Now.

[@Stoogie23]

Great Video, I watched JH’s video a while back and I definitely had some doubts in the church after, its cool to hear the other perspective and have a group of people discuss what they think is fair and not from the video.

[@davidfayfield6594]

Kwaku you absolutely nailed it! Treasure seeker establishes cult for sex!!! That was perfect !

[@devinbateman243]

33:20 Carden what is the "correct" way then to frame the "translation" process. Actually come down and hold a position on something, instead of just belittling everyone else who actually has the balls to hold an position.

[@smoothie7362]

When you realize brad is the guy who plays mosiah in the Book of Mormon videos

[@fightingfortruth9806]

It would make a lot of sense that Joseph became very excited about buried artifacts AFTER Moroni told him about the buried plates. The concept probably got him wanting to go looking for other possible relics from the past buried around his area. This lends credibility to the timeline Joseph gave for Moroni's visit.

[@krismurphy7711]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joseph started "scrying" in 1819. Got his brown rock in 1822. Didn't stop the scamming until 1827. BEFORE, AFTER, BEFORE, AFTER, DURING "visits" by "Heavenly Messengers."

[@lukehanson_]

Didn't think of that, very true!

[@krismurphy7711]

LOL.... Joseph was already interested in that kind of thing...REMEMBER what his Mom said about his storytelling to The Smith Family....VERY DETAILED...DESCRIBING DOWN TO THE CURRENCY/COINAGE USED BY THE ORIGINAL NATIVE INHABITANTS!!!@@lukehanson_

[@adamgonzalez8668]

I don’t know why Kweku and Brad keep giving this guy more credit than he deserves. He is obviously trying to discredit the church without all the harshness.

[@krismurphy7711]

EASY to do.

[@advocate7643]

Church discredits itself by its history alone.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@advocate7643 It is that simple.

[@krismurphy7711]

YOU MANY FIND THIS HARSH...BUT TRUE: Claimed “First Vision” Accounts I INCONVENIENT TRUTHS about the official “First Vision Narrative” Joseph Smith LIED about WHY he claimed to go and pray. Joseph Smith ADDED (lied) his encounter w/ “evil” to jazz up The Story. Joseph Smith ADDED (lied) seeing/hearing God the Father. Joseph Smith CHANGED (lied) THE MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST. Joseph Smith LIED when he said he told people about his "Vision" & was persecuted. 1832 - First Version - Written down by Joseph Smith himself. 1) Joseph says he went to pray because of a concern about HIS sins. 2) Joseph says “The Lord” (Jesus) appears to him. 3) Joseph said Jesus criticized “the World.” Said no one does good. 4) Joseph claims he told Others about his “Vision” 1838 - Canonized Version 1) Joseph says he prayed to find out which Church to join. 2) Joseph says he was enveloped by darkness and evil. 3) Joseph says Two Personages appeared to him. 4) Joseph says Jesus told him to join none of the Churches. 5) Joseph says he told Others about “The Vision” but was persecuted. CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE TWO VERSIONS - 1) Joseph tells Two Different Versions of why he went to pray. 2) In 1838, Joseph leaves out any mention of encounter with evil. 3) In 1832, Joseph never mentions the presence of God the Father. 4) The Two Versions conflict about what the Message from Christ was… World is full of Sin OR None of the Churches are true??? 5) There is no record of Joseph Smith telling ANYONE about the claimed “First Vision” for years AFTER it supposedly happened. No Human Being on This Planet, after having a Face to Face with BOTH God and Jesus, would forget that. OR about a run-in with Evil. OR about why he went to pray. OR about what Jesus told him.

[@bradymoon1889]

My biggest critique of Johnny's film was he didn't mention the 5 first visions and that the one he choose to depict wasn't even the first version of that first vision.

[@harryabelpotter9630]

Here is some background on Mr. Harris: His first video on the Church was: "Why I Left The Mormon Church" If you want to know why ~ keep reading... . Here it is... A hand-made word for word transcription of his most important statement. @ 3.52, Mr. Harris said: quote " “One of the things I loved about Mormon Doctrine at the time was that there was always a push to ask God if it was true ... not to trust any people or any organization, but to, like, get on your knees and say, God, is this true? Is this church actually real? Is all of the things that they say actually the real deal? I had 'kind of' taken advantage of that promise before, “but never really.” I'd always been in a setting of pressure, whether it was my home as a kid, or on my mission, or BYU. In other words, there was always an incentive to believe. So I'd never really been in a situation where I could truly ask this question and not feel like there was some price to pay, if I decided I didn't believe. end. Able response: Harris went along to get along. Harris went along to collect the incentives. Harris went along to avoid paying some price. Harris said that he felt that there was some price to pay ~ if he "decided" that he didn't believe. Notice the use of the word “decided.” In other words, Harris at a young age decided to believe. And hence... Harris was a N.O.M., a Name Only Member ~ Harris went along to get along. Years later, Harris decided to leave. Harris decided, not to believe. Harris decided to collect the incentives that came with his new vocation, documentary short film, and his new family ~ the Washington D.C. crowd that supports left-leaning, progressive sociopolitical issues. . I know, with absolute certainty that ~ Someone who “never really prayed” cannot truthfully testify to the affirmative ~ I Know That My Redeemer Lives In other words, Mr. J. Harris' entire life in the Church was a lie. Period. And here are just some of the lies that Mr. J. Harris told. . In the Church before someone is baptized there is an interview. There is an interview for most of our milestones in life. Mr. Harris could not truthfully testify to the affirmative on ... 1) his baptismal interview 2) every priesthood interview 3) worthiness interviews 4) birthday interviews 5) every calling interview 6) every talk he ever gave 7) interview to receive endowments 8) mission interview 9) every mission discussion 10) marriage interview. Harris could not truthfully testify of the Gospel Harris did not “know” if the Gospel is true or not. He could not truthfully testify of the Gospel to his family, nor to his friends nor priesthood leaders nor investigators. nor neighbors, not even to himself You can't pray a lie. … said Huck Finn. . Harris never really prayed to God. And here's what's sad about that: He lived with this burden his entire life. And that is very sad. . Nevertheless, to his credit ... He “believed” as a Latter-day Saint, even though he knew in his heart that he “never really prayed.” He “identified” as a Latter-day Saint, even though he knew in his heart that he “never really prayed.” That's a heavy burden. And he fooled everyone. He is so intelligent that ~ He even fooled himself. Everyone thought he knew. . I didn't say it; Harris said it. and it's worth repeating ~ Harris said that he “never really prayed.” He did a lot of things in the Church, but, he “never really prayed.” At approximately 4.15 Harris tells us about prayer... namely ~ the prayer, the Moroni promise. And I quote, “ "I had kind of taken advantage of the promise before, but never really.” . Later in his life... Harris prayed for a sign. Finally … After he had collected all the incentives which come along with being a member of a faithful supportive Latter-day Saint family and the incentives that come from being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ … After he had a child, graduated from BYU, and moved away from home. Then and only then did he seek for a sign from God. . But … he did not receive an answer to his prayers. And … this is the big mystery to me and many others. Why do some receive answers to their prayers and others don't. Indeed, to mankind, God's ways are mysterious Even so, we know that ~ There is a big difference between seeking God and seeking a sign; and, in the due time of the Lord, after the trial of your faith, God responds to the former type of seeker but never to the latter. Nevertheless, We can't judge Harris, Only God can judge... Mr Harris spent 23 min 22 sec. saying that ~ He was born as a member of the Church; And, then finally, after his formative years... after all the details of his life ... mission, BYU, temple marriage, a child, he got his dream job in D.C. after he moved away from home ~ after all of that ~ he finally prayed, and, he didn't get an answer. . On the other hand... There are many adult converts to the Church, They have prayed and They have received answers to their prayers. They know the truth. I am one of them. I am a witness . While on the other hand... Mr. Harris does not know what we know. Instead … Mr. Harris is in the same position of the agnostic, atheist. Here is the rule they operate under... THE ATHEISTS GOLDEN RULE The one and only legitimate statement that an atheist or agnostic can make regarding the significant issues concerning religious doctrine or experience is - I don’t know. And the same is true for Mr. Harris. The only honest video Mr. Harris can make is ~ - I don’t know. And that my dear friends while it is the one thing that they should say... it is also the saddest thing that a Born in the Covenant ex-member can ever say. . Nevertheless.. He is rich now. He has that going for him. He has life... He has his wife and children. He is intelligent and creative. He is sooo blessed. . And here's the part I don't understand: Instead of saying: I respect the testimonies of those that have them. ~ his family, friends, people like you and me. Instead... he attacks us. and that is sad too. but what should we do? We can do a background check. We can set the record straight. We can stand up to him. and we can pray... Let us pray for his soul... that God will be merciful to him. . peace brothers, peace. from your neighborhood, we are the greatest generation. Latter-day Saint Boomer. :)

[@derekalineal]

Well said. You articulated perfectly my reaction to the referenced Harris video and I left a similar comment. NOM. I was born in the covenant. I have exercised Moroni's promise since I was a young lad. My prayers are always answered with the same surety that Joseph Smith was a prophet and the BoM is the word of God. I know it. Thank you for your comment.

[@KahlessTheUnforgettable]

Touch grass

[@TheBoyd88]

Drink some Mt. Dew everytime Cardon says "tropes".

[@krismurphy7711]

Why didn't Don mention Joseph starting "scrying" in 1819? Why didn't he mention Issac Hales rebuke of Joseph in 1827 for moneydigging? Why doesn't he know that...OR DISCLOSE THAT????

[@jamesbayless5842]

In the early parts of the episode Don references Lucy smith's memoir, is that not the same memoir we find her recounting j.s. telling b.o.m. story around the family as a young man?

[@WARDRADIO]

Yes it is. Your point.

[@jamesbayless5842]

I did appreciate your having Don on. It's a big breath of needed fresh air and understanding.

[@DaremoDaremo]

Bro Hal (Jared Halverson) calls it the Creation, Fall, Atonement cycle. Johnny is the the Fall stage of that cycle.

[@krismurphy7711]

LOL. And what % go through the "Atonement" part and come back to the 0,00075??

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@krismurphy7711 Brother Kris Murphy, I don't know. But, I have been enjoying the Come Back channel and I have been noticing a trend in the wards I have been in since I came back of people coming back as well. I do believe, regardless, however, that we all are eternal spirits and children of our Father and will all make it back eventually, one way or the other, including you. (I put your name on the temple prayer roll BTW. )

[@krismurphy7711]

Did you think of me/my name when you thought about having your throat slit or being disemboweled???@@DaremoDaremo

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@krismurphy7711 Brother Kris Murphy, no I did not. I do think and pray for you from time to time though. You are my eternal brother after all.

[@thekalechipsvendetta]

Great episode, discussion, gaffs, and pleasant ending.

[@Martinmd12-zt7vu]

17:37 Look at Cardon with his film knowledge! Fist bump!

[@LeaSaSuEntertainment]

I totally agree with Cardon.

[@ED-wired]

Right on, Cardon!

[@kylegene7359]

Now let's do Don Bradley vs Kay Godfrey (Epic Historian of Joseph) and see who knows more about Joseph Smith Jr!

[@six1nyne]

My moneys on Don. I'd go to Kay if I wanted to hear the same played out church approved narrative byu produces day in and day out.

[@kylegene7359]

@@six1nyne ooookay

[@six1nyne]

​@@kylegene7359okay okay

[@aaronm1466]

Haha! Luke. That’s funny. “Hey what about me?”

[@kalinbutler9525]

I’m with Cardon, he’s lulling his normie woke audience with enough interesting “facts” that any sincere positive discovery of the gospel is buried by his dismissive narrative of the restoration. At the same time appealing to current members that are in some way or another closer to the xmo fence to make climbing it easier. In some ways his subtle presentation is much more dangerous for both sides to ingest if they don’t have a sturdy hold to eternal principles. He fooled himself with this thinking. Frog boiling pot.

[@MichaelRogerStDenis]

Great host, great topics - Great show!

[@matthewblanchard1824]

Hello Kwaku. i don't know if you'll read this of if you're genuinely interested in an answer to the question about why ex-mo's are so disturbed by the burning of the press, but I'll take a stab at it. It's really the whole narrative. Look at every church production about Joseph Smith. Does a single one mention the Nauvoo Expositor? Through these productions and manuals about the life of Joseph Smith, i thought i was educated. I thought that materials i was handed at church educated me about what really happened. I was wrong. I was taught that Joseph was an innocent lamb led to slaughter, guiltless and spotless. I was taught that Joseph and the church members were persecuted solely for their beliefs. I never heard that Joseph had a militia that he marched around to threaten other territories. I thought the church members were persecuted and didn't fight back, only wanted peace, fled from one place to another. But the fact is that within Nauvoo, Joseph Smith was Mayor. He had political power. and you can argue all day that it was a vote, but at the end of the day, the Mayor is accountable for lawless behavior like this. And yes, it was "ordered" by Joseph. But that's only part of the problem. The other part of the problem is the REASON WHY the expositor was destroyed. What did the Expositor say Kwaku? Anyone else? it exposed Joseph's polygamy. I'm sure it wasn't a very charitable framing, but the essence of the Expositor was truth. Joseph lied about his polygamy and lied about what the Expositor was exposing, wanted it covered up, and had it burned. He not only abused political power contrary to the constitution, he lied and abused his political power to cover up the truth. Not very Prophetic behavior, I'd say. Wouldn't you? Also, Kwaku, making an equivalence between burning the press and Lynching is a pretty bad look too. Both are illegal, and i wouldn't deem any man committing such acts as worthy of Praise as a Prophet of God. And for the record Cardon, I am very disturbed by the burning of the Nauvoo Expositor, and I am *not* a "progressive who wants all conservatives cancelled." I am moderate on most issues, and if i had to choose between Trump and Biden, I'd vote third party. Probably libertarian or something like that.

[@WARDRADIO]

1. Mayors can't order anything. City Councils aren't the military. People pushed against Joseph all the time. 2. Lots of presses were destroyed back then. Ever hear about those? 3. How many children have you buried? We don't sweat if you think our "look" is bad. Joseph was the GOAT

[@matthewblanchard1824]

@@WARDRADIO man. Do you know how you sound? 1) Joseph Cant order anything = Joseph isn’t to blame and makes you sound like you’re trying to excuse this act. And yes he did order it, after it was voted on. Just cuz it was voted on doesn’t mean it wasn’t an order, this apologetic is weak. To the Marshall of Nauvoo: “You are hereby commanded to destroy the printing press from whence issues the Nauvoo Expositor, and pi (sic) the type of said printing establishment in the street, and burn all the Expositors and libelous handbills found in said establishment; and if resistance be offered to your execution of this order by the owner or others, demolish the house: and if anyone threatens you, or the Mayer or the officers of the city, arrest those who threaten you, and fail not to execute this order without delay, and make do return there on.” How can you guys claim to have studied this and be so dead wrong?

[@matthewblanchard1824]

@@WARDRADIO 2) lots of presses were destroyed: so that makes it ok? You’re excusing illegal behavior because others did it? Oh I guess it’s just the wild Wild West so we just shouldn’t expect anything more from Joseph and the leaders of the church than we should of normal average Missouri folks. Is that the message you wanna send here?

[@matthewblanchard1824]

@@WARDRADIO I have buried one child, and doing so didn’t make me want to do anything illegal. His name was Michael Aiden Blanchard and if you’re ever in colorado, I’ll take you to visit his grave where you can apologize for making light of his death

[@matthewblanchard1824]

@@WARDRADIO last but not least, you have completely glossed over the worst thing about this whole issue. I could take or leave every other aspect of this. What makes this disturbing is that the burning down of the printing press was performed to cover up truth. If Joseph Smith came out and admitted all the truth within the Nauvoo expositor, how do you think people would’ve reacted to the act of burning it down?

[@shireecox122]

Brad and Kwaku, I’m a bit confused at how you’re defending an anti M. I thought you two stood up for the truth, not defend those who try to bring it down. Guys like Jonny Harris are no better than the John Delin’s in the world. He is just like them. I don’t care how amazing his maps are.

[@bradwitbeck]

I don’t see him as a John Dehlin at all. He left relatively recently and the way I see it, he’s trying to share what he believes now, much like how we’d share a testimony. I think once he learns more, he’ll follow in Don Bradley’s footsteps and realize that the narrative he has bought into now doesn’t hold up to the real story of the Church’s history. Us lumping him into the same bin as John Dehlin won’t help anyone.

[@krismurphy7711]

BS BRAD!!! You didn't say a peep about Joseph Smiths dishonest and fraudulent moneydigging "career" timeline. Luke didn't have a clue. Don didn't know. Cardon DENIED....you said....squat.@@bradwitbeck

[@darrinsmith2571]

Good gosh guys! It was almost 11 minutes until you let your guests speak! I was waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting...

[@THE_KlNG]

Johnny Harris is a good example of what happens to a member that stops reading the Book of Mormon, stops praying, and stop going to Church and starts watching John Dehlin.

[@mahonri69]

He claims he prayed one year, one year hard to believe. Investigators sometimes don't even aske God, I just see here like you said he stopped holding the iron rod. I left the church for 20 years and the Lord's Spirit came on several occasions calling me back to church, in 2016 I went back to church and had numerous spiritual experiences. Church is true I love the gospel, love the Church.

[@Themanyfacesofego]

He started thinking.... and not relying on subjective emotions.

[@dcarts5616]

@@Themanyfacesofegofancy psycho-babble has always been used to mock people of faith and their experiences. What you said there is nothing edgy, new or groundbreaking.

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@Themanyfacesofego The conviction of the Holy Ghost is not subjective emotions. We are dual beings, eternal spirits in a mortal shell. Our physical senses and physical emotions are just the shell of our true selves. When we are convicted by the Holy Ghost it is direct to our eternal spirit, our true selves, to our spiritual senses. Now, of course, having the Holy Ghost come upon us will likely not just stir our spiritual senses, but in so doing, stir our physical senses and physical emotions as well. That is, while our configuration of eternal spirit and mortal shell is not perfect right now, it is sufficiently integrated that the spiritual can affect the physical and the physical can affect the spiritual.

[@DaremoDaremo]

@@OmegaMan28 Brother Omega Man, are we to take what you just chimed in with there as a non-biased perception? :-) :-) And, while you are at it, can you please provide an example of a non-biased perception?

[@brendakauffman2222]

So much to say, scripture tells us the test for the true prophet: Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Joseph continued to state he saw buried treasure where there was none and that goes against the test of a true prophet, and scripture says if the thing the prophet prophecies doesn't come to pass, it is not what the Lord has spoken. Joseph Smith was into divination, which the Bible says is wrong & most definitely not "Christian" when the seer stone was gotten from a witch. I mean In scripture it says when you go into the world not to take on the practices & "abominations" Plus, one isn't to add to scripture or take away from it, and the book of Mormon goes against actual scripture. Then free masons actually worship lucifer and has occult practices, so God isn't going to weave those practices into a "true church." On Devination: "Deu 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. " I mean Joseph gets a seer stone from a witch( which God told his people not to consult), and he searches unsuccessfully for hidden treasure, and then he uses the same stone to interpret the gold plates that no one but him saw. That isn't a credible person and God isn't going to go against scripture and now say this stuff is fine. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? The key is God doesn't change and he also said not to add anything to scripture: Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus was always God, he didn't come to earth to work his way to godhood: Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Don't add to or take away from scripture: Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. God doesn't change, he doesn't want things added to or taken away from scripture. He doesn't want us using the practices of people who are ungodly, like witches and wizards. Really there is nothing Christian about divination. The key no matter what church you are from, does the doctrine you were taught, does what is claimed match up to scripture? God doesn't change what he doesn't want us to do. Magic is magic and it's not what God wants his people to do.

[@evanbailey8294]

It says not to add any scripture yet tons of scripture was added after that verse. So is the rest of the Bible false?

[@calebringger8703]

A lot of your comments were almost exactly what I commented on Johnnys video when I saw it a week ago. Ex-Mormons can’t help but act like everyone in the Church is either ignorant or in denial of “the truth.” Besides being completely condescending, it’s just incorrect.

[@desmondcole5605]

Having a gay black dude on here is my favorite part😂 Joseph Smith ROLLING in his grave hahahahahahaha

[@WestLight-l3u]

I don’t know why you assume he is gay? And Joseph loved black people like he loved everyone else.

[@jerry_phillips]

37:36 which is ironic because Johnny’s video is filled with “micro aggressions” 😂

[@Lola-sz8zu]

💯 facts! 😂

[@WilliamPhillips-m9j]

Been a member for over 55 years. Best decision I ever made. Detractors come and go with same tired, recycled stories. Nothing new here.

[@davidfayfield6594]

Im happy to come in to see if cardon and the boys can turn me into an antiscience, antiquestioning, antiwoman, homophobic human being. I’d also love to go to magic mountain by the way !

[@krismurphy7711]

You forget "head in the sand denier"

[@philandrews2860]

If you're willing to be open minded, they might be able to convince you that they aren't any of those things that you mentioned :)