Reacting to Johnny Harris The REAL Story of the Mormon Church

[@tdwagner1]

I am an ex Baptist now Mormon....i never say anything but great words about how the Baptist faith led me to this church. I love the Baptists (although at times they dont like me lol). If you leave your church, fair enough; I did so. But to then turn to tear it down, not a good game plan.

[@sunsolstar]

Maybe is because they still keep lying to people!

[@rachelrasmussen1101]

I have loads of respect for my Baptist friends! Love your attitude!

[@NerdJake]

I don't think that it is his plan to "tear it down", his video would have been different if he tried to do that. I think he is just expressing his opinion. And why shouldn't he do that? It was a very fair video from his side, he didn't bring up any fake news. Everything he says is church doctrine in his video is actually church doctrine. His video was fair.

[@BrianTerrill]

Well, I grew up between the Assembly of God and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as far as I'm concerned with the Assembly of God their music and worship is awesome but their pastors most of the time were kind of nuts. Always screaming, etc.

[@tdwagner1]

I attended one of those myself. and yes def loved the music @@BrianTerrill

Having met Johnny Harris in his younger years, I can't say anything but great things about him. Brilliantly talented guy with a curiosity that is second to none. The fact that he has left the church and that lately he has been open about his reasons to leave isn't at all a reason for me to doubt of his honesty and intent to do what he has concluded to be the right thing for him. I really appreciated his earlier video about his reasons to leave the church, and I took his latest "What Mormons REALLY Believe" as a personal essay supported with sources, but emphasis in "personal" nonetheless. The history of the church as understood today from credible sources provides plenty of transparency to arrive to many of the conclusions he has arrived to. Yet I'm skeptical of anyone, including Johnny, claiming to be the bearer of the "Real" story of anything--and that's where I take issue with the video. Not with the content or even with Johnny's conclusion, only with the portrayal of it in the thumbnail and title as being something like "finally! we finally have the REAL story". We know he doesn't have it. No one really has it. Not even our institutional church fully has it. It is a puzzle that many people across the belief and academic spectrum are trying to put together and therefore is an evolving story. And relying on an evolving story requires a LOT of faith--faith to either believe it, or to disbelieve it. So again, I welcome Johnny's approach to his former faith and his story; I think it is carefully crafted to deliver a tone that is moderate and respectful, and I only wish he (and many others that engage in the online conversation about our faith) were more careful about claiming to be "the" source of truth about this whole thing. Thanks for this reaction video!

[@HalE14]

Ditto. I also find it really ignorant when people claim they know the “real” story so that means that they need to leave and everybody else who stays doesn’t know the “real” story, and they have their head in the sand. maybe this was more realistic sounding years ago, but having experienced people online constantly talking about their decision to leave, most people are not just gonna sit there and ignore it. They are going to figure out why the heck all these people keep making all these claims and research it themselves. And for some, they will probably come to the same conclusion and leave. But for others, it’s just new information and doesn’t change our faith experiences. And also somewhere in between. But I agree that the story, however its told, is full of faith, so there really is no “real” story. You just have to come to your own conclusion because anytime I hear any “real” story, there’s actually a lot that isn’t explained.

[@MrRickb75645]

I've done my research. And every time I research something that is said against the church, I go immediately and find out what happened. And every time I do the research , I find it is not at all what was being said. This Harris guy is lost. Can he come back yes, but he is off. He tells 98 percent of the truth , to wether he did it on purpose or not doesn't , matter it matters , that he is not speaking the truth. Wether through omission , or he is seeing it with blinders.

[@NerdJake]

His title was obviously clickbaty. But what he told was actually pretty close to the first lesson the missionaries teach. His video includes stuff that is not included in this reaction like the first vision. I don't think that his intention was to give some alternative, mind-blowing story, he just wanted to give the real story as the church teaches it including all the details we leave out because "babies need milk, not meat" and stuff like that. I think he was still pretty respectful towards the church with his video.

[@Rudyard_Stripling]

After moving to DC he sold out for the almighty dollar and he admits to the loss of the spirit even though he may not recognize that. If you look carefully you can see the light in him before he left the church and now you can see the light is gone.

[@Rudyard_Stripling]

He never mentions the 3 or the 8 witnesses.

[@Ghenjiro]

I have a question for Mormons, if a man in a similar stature to Joseph Smith were to announce today that he found the plates after the angel Moroni spoke to him to transcribe more of the book of Mormon, would yall believe him and he become your new prophet?

[@JonathanHamilton-t9d]

There have been cases of people trying that. Usually a few members of their family and a few friends join. And that's as far as they grow.

[@Ghenjiro]

@@JonathanHamilton-t9d thanks for the answer, I didn't mean it disrespectfully either. Genuinely just wanted to know. I used to be religious (Christianity) and walked away from it to embrace Deism.

[@bradleydicksoncrazy]

I dont think this would happen.....

[@christopherpeery7436]

No. Only the prophet/president of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints holds the priesthood keys to receive revelation for the whole earth. So a random dude claiming to be a prophet because Moroni appeared to him would make zero sense. The Lords church is a house of order (D&C 132:8) and He will not lead His people astray like that. If the Lord wants to bring forth more scripture for us, He will do it through the prophet (Amos 3:7). Also, you can pray to receive your own personal revelation to know through the Holy Ghost what is true (Moroni 10:5)

[@elijahkropf]

​@@christopherpeery7436​ On this point, the reason Latter-day Saints believe Joseph Smith is different than any other farmboy is that he had the authority to be a prophet, but others wouldn't. This isn't an arbitrary assignment but is rather one based on scriptural prophecy and which is compatible with LDS theology. We believe Priesthood power and authority was missing on earth in Joseph's time, hence the need for a restoration and a new prophet. And we just don't have that need anymore. Also, because it wasn't just a restoration of ideas, but of literal authority from Christ, we wouldn't accept any new prophets or any new world-wide revelations as authoritative. Thanks for the question!

[@elainekoeppel7250]

They came to America to get away from the Church of England which was a dictator. They came here to worship God in the way that they knew. They didn’t come here to abandon religion

[@XiongGou]

That's a key point of misinformation already which is only going to skew my view further of what he has to say. Many of the founding Fathers were religious or believed in God. They weren't anti-religion, they didn't like state sanctioned religion, thus the 1st amendment.

[@allanmason3201]

You're right: the main motivation of the Pilgrim Fathers in setting up the Plymouth Colony was so they could worship as they chose; as far as that goes, the sanitised mythology we were taught in grade school is correct. But the fact is that the Puritans were a bunch of religious fanatics who wanted to create a theocracy based on their narrow understanding of the Bible. Prior to getting on the Mayflower, they lived in The Netherlands where they were free to worship however they chose. But that wasn't good enough for them. In modern terms, they found it constantly triggering to live in a community where they were surrounded by decent people who did not believe as they did, and they were terrified that the general religious tolerance of that country meant that some of their members - particularly their children - might get fed up with their oppressive interpretation of the Bible and move to another church. In short, the true story of the Pilgrims is an ancient one: the men in positions of power in a church found ways of dressing up their moves to maintain and increase that power in holy garb, and they managed to bamboozle most of their gullible flock. (Hmmm... In the context of this video, you mentioning the Pilgrims was actually very appropriate!)

[@theincrediblerodofiron304]

​@@XiongGou There is no definite answer to how many attended church in 1790. The 10% claim was first proposed by a couple of historians in the 1990's But, it contradicts 2 things. The number of chappels and cathedrals that were being built during the 18th century increased. And journals and those who were well known "Even today 27% of Americans qualify as regular churchgoers, according to the 2022 General Social Survey." 1. "(Washington) regularly attended services held by military chaplains, and also with local civilian congregations. As president, between 1789 and late 1790, he worshipped at St. Paul's Chapel and at Trinity Church both in Manhattan. 2. Eli Whitney was known to be a religious person and attended church. He was raised in a devoutly religious household and grew up with strong Christian values. Whitney's family belonged to the Congregational Church, and he was raised with a solid foundation of faith. While there isn't an extensive amount of information available about his personal religious practices, it's widely acknowledged that he had a connection to the church and its teachings. 3. Alexander Hamilton was also known to have attended church. He was raised as a Presbyterian and had a strong religious upbringing. Throughout his life, he attended various churches in different locations where he lived, including Trinity Church in New York City. Hamilton's religious beliefs played a significant role in his life, and he often expressed moral and ethical viewpoints that were influenced by his Christian background. 4. Throughout his life, Jefferson did attend church services at times, but his attendance was irregular and often for political or social reasons rather than strictly for religious devotion. He occasionally attended Anglican (Episcopal) services, especially during his time in Virginia. However, there are accounts that suggest he may have felt uncomfortable with some of the religious aspects of these services. 5. Thomas Paine was known for his skeptical and critical views on organized religion. 6. John Adams did attend church and was a religious person. He was a Congregationalist in terms of his religious affiliation. Adams was raised in a devoutly religious family, and his Christian faith played a significant role in his life and values. Throughout his life, he maintained a connection to his religious beliefs and attended church services. 7. Benjamin Franklin's relationship with religion was nuanced. While he attended church services at times and believed in a higher power, There, that's 4 out of 7. That's almost 60%.

[@latter-daysaintbatman2679]

Ah yes the puritans. They were cruel to anyone who disagreed with them. Alongside the Roman Catholics, the Church of England was just politically involved in everything. Tsk Tsk Tsk. No wonder Jesus said no church that existed were true.

[@jonbaker476]

Actually, you're incorrect and he is in the right, though I don't think you understand what his point is. I think Johnny simply phrased it in a way that made it seem like everyone was an atheist or something. Pretty much every christian religion in America is derived from Protestantism. They were literally protesting mainstream christianity in their day and age and wanted to be able to break free and do it in their own way, with their own ideas, free from the dictations of overlording authority figures. This is why hundreds of christian faiths were created during the time of JS. That's literally what Protestantism is about. Most people in America at the time of JS believed in God but a huge chunk of people were not actually church goers, or they were constantly shifting from religion to religion.

[@elainekoeppel7250]

Joseph didn’t decide to just leave. The saints were driven out with mobbing and burning homes and killing people

[@tykempton8562]

The saints in MO issued an extermination statement against Missourians LONG before Gov. Boggs issued his inhumane and inexcusable order. That said the people in MO did try to find ways to work with the saints there it is just too bad we as a people weren't willing to work harder to get along. We have a very severe persecution complex that exists to this day. Before you reply back telling me that I am a vile anti-mormon please read both volumes of Saints. That is where I got many of my facts from regarding our treatment in MO.

[@michaelbennett7561]

@@tykempton8562 The saints in Missouri were not perfect, but their treatment at the hands of the local population and the state itself was absolutely unjustified. I don't know how you get this both siderism nonsense from reading Saints.

[@kp6553]

Today it would be categorized as an attempted genocide under international law.

[@bartonbagnes4605]

And Joseph didn't just take off the next day, like he makes it sound, or even a week later.

[@bartonbagnes4605]

​@@tykempton8562The people were more worried that the increasing numbers of antislavery supporters would cause Missouri to become a Free State. But they got paid back, for Missouri suffered the greatest loss of life during the Civil War, especially Northern Missouri.

[@geoffshelley2427]

Oh, it's that guy. The guy that left the church and, at the time, claimed to have no hard feelings, and he was all good. Brigham Young was right, they leave the church, but can't leave the church alone!

[@GwPoKo]

No hard feelings. But I'm going to use my very large following to keep publishing videos about my former church in a negative light LOL

[@katieedwards6444]

He spent years of his life, and probably many thousands of dollars to the church- how could anyone leave the church and just walk away without strong emotions after so many years of investment? It’s pretty unselfaware when I see members of the church make this argument.

[@t.j._edits9669]

It's a two way street. Depending on the family is someone chooses to leave the church they'll have family pressure them to come back. Lots of members who leave would not want to justify their position, but when prodded they feel they have no choice but to have to explain why. Inversely, when my dad investigated the church, he wanted to leave the methodist church in peace but his family pressured him to come back. He didn't want to stir the pot, but because of their consistent efforts he felt the need to bear his testimony. I think if both parties were respectful of one another's beliefs, these videos or ex-mormon content wouldn't exist

[@ramsrnja]

​@katieedwards6444 That's fair, I can see that point of view, if someone resents paying tithing for example. But it sounds like he came out earlier saying he left with no hard feelings.

[@epicon6]

@@katieedwards6444I doubt that's what it is. He just wants to sound smart because he thinks he has "cracked" the Latter Day Saints.

[@oliverking326]

Johnny raises the point that some members 'ignore' inconvenient details about church history, and I think there may be some truth to that. I think Johnny and a lot of other ex-members grew up in a time and a culture where some members did obfuscate the touchier subjects in the church's history in an attempt to protect people's testimonies. These members saw the value in the church and its teachings, and believed the best approach to tricky subjects was to not give them any sunlight, or even in some cases shun their discussion in order to not harm their children's growing testimony (after all, details about Joseph's life have little impact on our eternal salvation). Although this may have been done with good intentions, the result was a lot of people grew up without the reasoning ability or information to navigate these nuances, and basically believed the church was perfect in all its facets... so once they finally heard these details about the church from a website or some evangelical, their whole world view was shattered. Saints Unscripted is a real gift for helping people understand the nuances and difficulties behind imperfect people building God's church. Hope to see more people take up this endeavor

[@JasonHouse82]

agreed!

[@reillydevine12]

well put Oliver!

[@HalE14]

I agree. I think this is why I’ve never been angry when I learn something new. I can see that testimonies are so valuable to people, so I really don’t think those people meant any harm but I am seeing a lot of value in just talking about it more. I think a lot more people would be gone if we didn’t talk about it.

[@pollydunn3191]

As a former Mormon this is the first time I have ever heard that the witnesses actually saw the gold plates. I was always taught they were covered and they saw them through their spiritual eyes. And all of the witnesses were either related to Joseph Smith or a friend and his relatives. I have a hard time believing that if they actually saw the gold plates and handled them that they would leave the church just because of disagreements with Joseph Smith. If he really had these experiences and really had gold plates they would have been a defender of Joseph Smith till death as you are. They may not have denied their testimony so they wouldn't look like they had been duped --pride. I don't get why it's a big deal when people leave the church. As a believer and follower of Jesus I don't feel a need for church. I only need a relationship with God through Jesus. He is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE. But for those that do need a church I say go, serve, participate in any church of your choosing but don't look down on anyone or criticize others beliefs. God Loves All His Creation. He Is LOVE.❤ Jesus came and showed that Love.❤ I do see lots of people making money on KZbin using religion and that's fine also if everyone will accept everyone and do it lovingly. I have noticed since Hello Saints started his channel people have been getting less critical and nicer. 👍 to Pastor Jeff. ❤

[@suem6004]

No. We ignore nothing that matters. Only losers fret about 200 years ago while Protestant Ravi Zacharias characters lead Protestants today.

[@elainekoeppel7250]

Joseph was religious. His family read the Bible every day.

[@MickDees]

Agree, many sources (family of Joseph smith) shared they read the Bible as a family and all but father attended local congregations including a 14 year old having a soul search towards a religion. Is that not young enough to be “religious”?

[@towardcivicliteracy]

"Religious" is often used to describe a degree of religiosity--which would include a wide variety of regular practices. It's vague. But, I think, in this context, it just means he's not regularly attending a church. What little learning Joseph had, though, was probably learning to read from the Bible, which was very widespread practice at the time.

[@BubblesLarken-mr7dj]

no Joes dad in woodscrape society weird

[@henrylyons6856]

They were Freemasons

[@henrylyons6856]

His family have a long history of practising magick and the occult

[@scottyproctor3386]

I left the church when I was 16 and I tried many other religions and churches. I came back to the church at 45 because none of those others could explain parts of the Bible to me. I have also heard the spirit of God tell me directly it’s true. So put that in your pipe and smoke it Johnny.

[@mascotbenches5146]

Hehe. You got me. I guess he is one of the few that could put it in his pipe and smoke it. You made me laugh.

[@sunsolstar]

Some people are happier being fool

[@livingtruth2374]

I love it!

[@kristinrichmond8185]

Some people are happier because they have ongoing personal revelation from a Loving and merciful father in Heaven.

[@hrv4908]

​@@sunsolstarNonbelievers have their reward.

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

The problem with his story is that he takes truths and twists and turns them to fit his narrative. The first point begins in the beginning. Joseph Smith was a storyteller. Everyone was a storyteller at this time period. They had no radio, no TV, and newspapers are limited. Indian culture is full of storytellers. Some cultures still have storytelling as a center of their existence.

[@zionmama150]

He makes a monster with the puzzle pieces and tapes it together rather than putting the puzzle together in their proper place.

[@livingtruth2374]

@@zionmama150 perfect, exactly

[@livingtruth2374]

@@gordianknot9595 Baloney. He did not. Only in your anti-view. And btw, I see you're back! Couldn't resist, could ya' - Trolling around on here again on this faith channel, trying to convince the ignorant the Church isn't true - good luck. I'm surprised Saints Unscripted hasn't thrown you off -

[@phadrus]

@@zionmama150yep

[@zionmama150]

@@gordianknot9595 right you know everything from all the puzzle pieces we don’t have and use the changed history to tape the puzzle together into a puzzle monster. Makes me wonder what you think of the anachronisms in Paul’s accounts found in the Bible.

[@khyrole]

As a Muslim, I really love to see what was with LDS and Mormon. It's open my mind and knowledge on this matter. Thanks.

[@lisamaria661]

I'm a member of Tue Church Of Jesus Christ LDS. I have respect for everyone & their Religious beliefs & Faith💙🙏💙 The call to Allah is absolutely beautiful! Blessings to all.

[@ThoseOneGuysInc]

The fact that retelling history is never objective is like the first thing you learn in a decent history class…

[@TaskForceB]

Let’s trust the LDS to be truly objective about their history

[@ThoseOneGuysInc]

They're not. No one is. That's the point I was trying to make.@@TaskForceB

[@andrewolsen2711]

@@TaskForceB I think that's the point. History of something like the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Christianity itself is going to be told by people with extreme biases on the one side or the other. Imagine telling the history of the original Christian church - the whole thing started with a bunch of people who thought Jesus was risen from the dead and now sits on the right hand of God. I'd imagine people saying 'well, where is he then?'.

[@professorchimp1]

@@andrewolsen2711what’s great about this channel is that it dives into the mistakes made by church leaders, exploring all documents rather than a select few

[@professorchimp1]

@@joeoleary9010 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpmloXuErbifpqM kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5S3iGmqZ9SVm5I kzbin.info/www/bejne/gae6gaCCgbtmgNk

[@jennifer1424]

My question is always: if it was all fake, what was Joseph’s motivation?! What did he get from it all? It sounds like Johnny implied he was after power or fame or multiple wives, but looking closer at his actual day to day life- I think there are few if any who’d want to walk in his shoes. It was HARD. There were trials and challenges galore. He was never rich, or “popular” among the general public (quite the opposite), spent time in prison and was killed at a young age. What did he have to gain from it all if it was some complex fraud?! I just don’t see it. He persisted and endured despite trials that would have sent many of us packing.

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

I agree with you on this and then to put his family through all these hardships. One could say he was a narcissist, but historical records don't seem to point in this direction.

[@jacobsamuelson3181]

Why would someone want multiple wives anyways? I mean, isn't it better just to sleep with multiple women, leave and not make any commitments to them. Isn't that what so many 'rich' people are doing today?

[@juliahansen3773]

Possible explanation: Generally, people who are slaves to sin don't benefit from their sin like they expected to. Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin all pursued power which ultimately led to absolutely miserable endings (and lives. Hitler was a mess towards the end, and Stalin lived in constant paranoia). Pursuing power and riches is poisonous, but most men pursue it anyway. Joseph Smith was at least positioned to be the one who had power, if it worked out. So, it can at least be a reasonable explanation.

[@jacobsamuelson3181]

@@juliahansen3773 The difference is those men considered themselves God and sinned by trying to throw the real God out of the equation altogether. They all failed miserably. Joseph Smith at his dying breath recognized God as his only hope. Because of that difference alone, Joseph Smiths succeeded while the others legacies died off completely. By their fruits ye shall know them. Jesus was also positioned with power and in his dying breath commended his life to God. His legacy continues today. So your explanation doesn't work. Whatever Joseph Smith wanted to happen in the world is still living today. And the world is less sinful because of it.

[@juliahansen3773]

Muhammad also has had a lasting impact, and many Muslims will die for their belief. Neither of these two things is strong evidence that JS wasn't a false prophet. As far as a less sinful world, that has been going on steadily since Christ's resurrection, and can absolutely not be attributed to Joseph Smith and Latter Day Saints. Human rights, hospitals, taking care of orphans, charities etc...all greatly predate Joseph Smith (and were started by Christians throughout history). In fact, there were definitely some very QUESTIONABLE doctrines of Joseph Smith that the Latter Day Saints have abandoned - that's a big sign of bad fruit!

[@JacenCB]

I'd be curious to hear what Johnny says about Christianity at large and the narrative of Jesus.

[@techateacha]

To the true Christian, Mormonism is not a Christian denomination. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@jtoddburt1]

he's probably turned to atheism, that's what happens to most of these guys. If they have a modicum of consistency they have to apply the same critical standard to all religions that they applied to the LDS Church, especially just general Christianity. Once they do, they have no where left to go but atheism. Many try agnosticism for a while, but soon realize that's just a cop out. Unfortunately, if they are intellectually honest, eventually they realize that atheism/materialism is in fact just another human created religion, doesn't provide satisfactory answers to life's existential questions and cannot sustain the soul through life's inevitable let downs, betrayals and extreme hardships. Usually then they either finally break down and call out for God when their lives experience these extreme hardships (all lives do at some point) or they double down in their anger and vitriol and die miserable and alone in their perpetual hatred. I pray regularly that those who have fallen away eventually have experiences that humble them and nudge them back to the Lord.

[@deboraholsen2504]

@@techateachaThat’s your opinion. What makes a true Christian? Why are you the authority or judge of whether those who love Jesus and truly believe in Him, believe He is the Savior, and serve Him are Christians?? “By their fruits, ye shall know them.”

[@9000ryguy]

I was wondering if he would get into that. I've been on the fence several times after growing up in the church, but I haven't found a better answer yet other than to believe in nothing but science.

[@techateacha]

@@deboraholsen2504 not judging the Mormon believers. It’s the heretical teachings and beliefs. Seriously, why do you all need to have a Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith to learn how to believe, love and serve Jesus? Isn’t the Bible sufficient? Sola Scriptura, 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

[@jacobsamuelson3181]

I loved the simplicity in complexity. It actually defines any meaningful you are involved in. Think of anyone that is special in your life. Think of all the times you might have been frustrated or angered by that person. Think of all of the things you didn't know about them at first and the struggles you had when you came to knowing them. Any marriage, parent, sibling, friend relationship goes through this simplicity in complexity paradox. The most meaningful relationships are typically ones that survive the complexity. That is why I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and why I love Jesus.

[@Goobersnobber47]

nobody I know married teenagers, sent men on missions and then married their wives, claim that some skeletal remains were those of a white lamanite named zelph, claim to translate egyptian papyrus into abrahamic writings.

[@jacobsamuelson3181]

@@Goobersnobber47 Yeah you must be living under a rock cause I know people who did far "weirder or worse" things than all of those. I know people that have murdered their children in their wombs, after having plenty of premarital sex consensual and nonconsensual to get them. I know people that have cheated on their spouses with pornography and with their babysitters. I know people that have relatives and ancestors that killed other people because of the color of their skin or the hat on their head. I know people who used the Bible and make changes and translations therein to weaponize and monetize Christ to get people to do what they want and build Churches through their priestcraft. I know people that believe stoning women and children for not obeying supposed religious law is alright. I know people who believe in prearranged marriages to teenagers. I know of cultures where the cheif sleeps with the bride before she weds. And this is just the people that I know. If I were to read the Bible, I would find prophets and kings that have done even 'weirder and worse' things too. Like Joseph a almost 40 year old marrying a impregnated 12 year old Mary and birthing Jesus. Like David who sent a man to his death to marry His wife who became the Great Great Great etc grandmother of Jesus. Like Abraham who just abandon his other wife in the desert. Like Moses who built a pagan idol serpant that would magically heal those who looked at it or worshipped it. All of these people that you are mentioning are probably people alive that you know too. If you are so self-righteous and can't associate with anyone that has done weird or worse things than Joseph, you must be a very lonely man who does nothing but share how he is the only righteous person in the world and that he doesn't hang around sinners. The fact is we love sinners being one of them ourselves. We have a Church that is designed to heal this wicked world through Restoration. Not all of us members are perfect and we make mistakes, but that is why we desperately need a Savior to make it possible to get better. I believe His Church was made for this purpose. We as a whole can say that we are much stronger than we were 200 years ago partly because of weird and worse things that Jesus restored. The fruits of this Church are a much better option than what the world has to offer. The moment you see how awful the world is compared to the weird things someone did 200 or 2000 years ago, you might care about swallowing your pride, getting out of your rock and actually learning what this Church really is.

[@willis873]

Amen

[@anonymoustruth5950]

The issue though is you do not know Jesus. You know a false Christ. Not the true Jesus of the Bible. You’ve received a false spirit. Joseph smith was deceived by the same demon that Muhammad was deceived by. The same demonic spirit appeared to both of them and deceived them both. The parallels between LDS and Islam and other cults are all right there if you’re honest enough to look at them.

[@dane_with_swag]

2:04 an objective historical lens doesn't exist. I like how the leading danish science website videnskab dk discussed with experts about objectivity in history, and they said (paraphrasing): History is like a court case. Your role is, just like a lawyer, to give the most convincing, and sometimes even the most appealing, arguments. The theory that wins the most people over gets in the history books.

[@ryanthompson3737]

The history itself isn't objective, but the people who make history their life goals, historians, typically ARE objective when averaged out across the industry. While one may say "this never happened", others may prove "this DID happen, here's the evidence, and your bias is that it makes your family lineage look bad". In that case, others in the field look at the reports, compare against their own evidences, and then, collectively, irons out the bumps of history over time. History is "objective" because the people that dedicate their lives to it have an incentive to NOT be biased, while the industry itself is set up in a way to not have blind faith in any one side. Your historical take is ALWAYS just as likely to be ridiculed as a Christians version of history... and THAT is attempted objectivity. Think of the Egyptian pyramids... for the longest time we claimed it was built ENTIRELY by slaves until Egyptian historians with a bias proved it was not. Of course it went through the wringer of critique before it was finally settled, among the historian community, that they were not, in fact, ONLY built by slaves. This is unlike religious history which includes a lot of blind faith and almost a detestment of any sort of critique or review from other experts. It's a system designed to prevent further developments of historical claims... it just is what they say it is.

[@nicolerubydell]

I’ve recently stepped away from being LDS, I suppose I’m in the complexity phase unsure what’s next! I watched this original as well. I appreciate how level headed your response is and of course some bias is there with both parties but I always enjoy seeing both points of view! You’re definitely the best host of the Saints Unscripted to watch! Thank you!

[@davidcooper1201]

Step into the light and truth found in God's proven Word, the Bible, especially the Book of Galatians and Ephesians. As the whole New Testament will help you become free from sin and have certainty of a true relationship with God and find true peace and hope.

[@jimmycreighton4344]

Good for you, asking the tough questions. May you find your answers and peace.

[@IJN-33]

Thank you! It drove me crazy that he left out the witnesses. It feels like he should have known that and maybe left it out because its a stronger point?

[@HalE14]

I agree. Especially with a lot of the way he “objectively” presents history and doctrine, that is a key element that he should not have left out.

[@IJN-33]

@@HalE14 Yeah, I mean he did a better job than most Anti, but still that's critical.

[@adamb7230]

In his short video about our history he finds it fitting to mention Kolob and Joseph marrying a teenageer, but not that there are witnesses to the Book of Mormon and he doesn't think this is a biased representation?

[@HalE14]

@@adamb7230 exactly. Biased doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a jerk, but it definitely shows what is prioritized in your thinking

[@phadrus]

It’s clearly a hit piece. Google will server it first when people search “Mormonism”. This is how the world works now.

[@captainsirk1173]

My brain is programmed for many things. Staying in the church is not one of them. It’s the thing that most helps me break undesirable programming. People act like we’re trapped in this cult, as if the gospel doesn’t grant some of the best tools for gaining the sort of freedom I’d consider worth having. And it’s not some kind of blissful ignorance.

[@WhiteArtsMagic]

say you're trapped without saying you're trapped

[@hbofbyu1]

It can be counterintuitive but I need outside sources (not just myself) to judge me. Otherwise I don't feel progress and a way to become better. Freedom is progress, not following my own impulses and desires all the time. One thing good about the church as it provides me opportunity to socialize and interact with those outside of my circles, my economic status, even my ethnicity and culture. I've never found anything better.

[@racealexander1660]

​@@WhiteArtsMagictrapped how? No debt? No addictions? Healthy? Most likely with a family and close friends? Where's the trap?

[@brooklynparkse]

@@racealexander1660then try leaving. Have your mother burst into tears because you’re not wearing your garments. Lose a large sense of community because you’ve only ever made friends at church. Feel the guilt of disappointing your friends because they respect you and your opinion but must revere the church’s authority above all else. Be the sort of person they tip toe around because they’ve been taught to distrust people who leave for being “unfaithful” or “selfish” when so many of us leave because the truth may be hard, but it is the truth. You’re not trapped in the sense of chains. You’re trapped by the familial, social, and often mental cost of leaving. And you’ve often had a lifetime of lessons and talks and small social triggers programming you that leaning will cost you everything - even your very family and soul. But being free is better.

[@racealexander1660]

@@brooklynparkse those are good points but also true of any very tightknit group. Not exclusive to our church. I come from a large, close family. My brother left a few years ago with his family. He gets treated the exact same as he did before. Granted, he doesn't try to tell us how smart and free he is and how blind we are to the 'real' truth. We just go about our lives, same as before. He comes to family church events when he can, etc. Same with my aunt and her family who left 30 years ago. She's one of my favorite people on the planet. You also have to consider a different reality. Did you grow up in the church? And have left as an adult? I think you underestimate the blessings you (or others) received by living the gospel for the first 20-40 years of your life. You get taught all the morals, probably avoid addictions, learn hard work and self reliance, have a great friend and family network, the list goes on. And then when you don't believe it or need it anymore, you bow out. Have you ever watched the come back podcast? There are a ton of people who left and got in really dark places by not living gospel principles. And their families in many cases were still there for them. And they were able to pull out with the help of the atonement. Anyway, i really don't believe there's any freedom in leaving the commandments. It can seem that way at first. But very rarely are people's lives better in the long term after they leave. True freedom is found in living God's will. After all, he knows the best life we can have. That's all he wants for his children.

[@bobwilkinson1217]

Josiah Stoal hired Joseph to dig for treasure and finally, Joseph convinced Mr. Stoal to give it up. That is all the treasure-seeking Joseph did and he vehemently reacted to that charge.

[@dr33776]

You should read more, he was involved in dozens of digs throughout the 1820s, even after he supposedly saw the first vision and moroni visited him.

[@bobwilkinson1217]

@@dr33776 You should read more than what the anti-Mormon and anti-Joseph crowd wrote. Read the responses of Oliver and Joseph to such charges. If you can't find it, read Jonathan Neville's works-- he has done more research on primary sources than all others combined.

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

@@dr33776 Even if Joseph did treasure seeking that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Recently, in Utah, there was a treasure hunt and someone found the 25,000 dollar price. People still use metal detectors today to search for treasure. Kids do geocaching. In Alaska, people still hunt for gold. It is all about how your frame it. The Gold Rush lead many people out west and up North, so Joseph participating in some treasure hunting isn't a deal breaker.

[@gordons-alive4940]

@@dr33776 JS married women, including some who were married to living men, in secret and attacked anyone who called him on it. I don't know why LDS find him to be such a trustworthy source when it comes to his own past.

[@bradleyhowell4155]

​@dr33776 also should be noted that originally it was the idea of other treasure seekers that took him as a companion that had heard of his accounts of theophany. He needed quick money to rescue his family from a financial disaster they were in.

[@sleepingwithcats5121]

One can say this about the Bible, any belief... No real proof. It's called, Faith.

[@EricLovesCHRIST]

The Bible is like Santa Clause You have a lot of evidence supporting it 1 my mom and dad say it’s true (they would never lie) 2 I had a wish list and Santa 🎅 gave me everything 3 I wrote a letter to Santa and he wrote back 4 I sat on Santa’s lap 5 I left a cookie and he ate it 6. Tons of Christmas songs about Santa, everyone knows it’s true The Book of Mormon is like the Easter Bunny 🐰 1 A man’s claim The Bible has something called MAPS Manuscripts Archeological evidence (and real cities) Prophecies Scientific Data I am lds by the way, but the Bible takes almost no faith to believe, while the Book of Mormon definitely does

[@Ayala_411]

Exactly, typical enlightened atheist mindset, walk by faith, not by sight.

[@jackdaw6359]

Not really, the Bible keeps being vindicated by history and archaeology. Aside from this we believe in Our Lord because of Israel's prophecies and the fulfillment he brought. That, and he established the church that still stands to this day

[@anniejensen77]

​@@jackdaw6359agree. I love that the Bible tells all believers to test their faith with their brain, that God has, does, and will always provide evidence. That God always causes a public scene when he reveals himself and does not and will not require us to take one man's word for it. I love that the Bible advises us to not trust our feelings alone because they aren't facts. Blind faith, is unreasonable and not what is being asked of us. I LOVE that.

[@ryanthompson3737]

​@@jackdaw6359Yes, and we can vindicate parts of little red riding hood because there ARE random houses in the forest where old grandmothers live, and who's daughter comes to visit... just because it's based on the reality around them doesn't make everything in it real. Unless you can provide the skeletal remains of an angel, or Jesus coming down from the heavens, it's all just historical literature tainted through the lense of a delusional religion. It's like saying 1+1=2 therefore God exists... yes 1+1 DOES equal 2, but your delusional conclusion to God ISNT real. You can find plenty of evidences that 1+1=2, but that evidence does not prove God just because you, erroneously, attributed to someone without any evidence in the first place. I can easily claim it also proves unicorns exist if I just claim everything was invented by unicorns.

[@rdgerdes]

It's kind of hard to see someone's view of the outside of the milk jug if you've only always lived inside the milk jug.

[@robertkinnear9659]

I've lived outside the "milk jug" for many years and have never understood ex-mos and antis. I think most of their conclusions are toxic and not completely truthful. They tend to sensationalize things. At least the vocal ones on youtube.

[@chrisblanc663]

⁠@@robertkinnear9659I think that it’s usually the vocal ones you hear by definition 🤣. I think some people leave for sincere reasons. It’s sad to me, but we must always pray for them, and love them as we do ourselves.

[@Mr-Thou]

@randygerdes That's a silly take. So, you need to be a Muslim to see inside their jug and say their worldview may benefit or harm others? Do you need to adopt every single worldview in existance in order to determine if they're good or bad?

[@rdgerdes]

@@Mr-Thou I don't think you need to do that to determine if they're good or bad, but if you want to understand them, it would help. And, you don't have to understand unless you're curious. It's optional. So Harris is criticizing Mormons, but do Mormons understand why? Do they want to? Some great work done on "Strive to Understand, then to be Understood"...Stephen Covey, I think. A Mormon.

[@Mr-Thou]

@randygerdes Of course it would help you understand others if you've lived in their shoes. Thing is, this is not practical. What, you're going to live each year of your life in a different religion, community and/or country in the world? You might, and this might teach you a lot about others. However, this poses two major problems: 1. Not everyone has access to that luxury, even if they wanted to. The vast majority of people need to work hard to make a living, and that requires stability - not changing your habits and beliefs in revolutionary ways every so often. 2. Beliefs are not like clothes. If you sincerely believe in a Christian morality, but you start living according to an Atheist worldview, then you're betraying your own conscience. And this won't help you live in any side of any jug - it will just create unbearable cognitive dissonance.

[@ThoseOneGuysInc]

One interesting thing about sealings in general (not just marriage) is that originally the idea seemed to be that you would seal everyone to the prophets and apostles whether as children or wives or parents or what have you. The idea was that the sealings are only effective if the participants remain faithful and since many peoples family members had rejected the gospel (like nonmember parents) then they need to be sealed to those who were faithful or more likely to be at least. So even after Joseph and some other apostles had passed if your parents weren’t members or if a woman wasn’t married to a member they would be sealed to Joseph or brigham or someone else who was faithful their whole lives. It wasn’t till Wilford Woodruff had a revelation in the St George temple that they corrected the practice and everyone strictly had their families sealed as they are here on Earth. Doctrine is revealed line up one line. Not every aspect of things was revealed all at once or by one prophet so people tend to imperfectly try to fill in the gaps based on what they do know. All that to say that sealings were understood differently for the first 70 years or so of the church.

[@ruslannykyforov5740]

Revelation be like: listen, folks, stealing children was a bad idea.

[@ThoseOneGuysInc]

@@ruslannykyforov5740 they just didn’t understand yet. revelation is line upon line. the one to Wilford woodruff was almost that blunt though haha. It went more like Wilford- “god should we be doing it this way?” Holy Spirit- “do they have parents?” Wilford- “yes” Holy Spirit- “ then you should honor them.”

[@brianc.1149]

​@@ruslannykyforov5740 The gospel of Jesus Christ is STILL being restored to this day. Believing that all would be revealed immediately is just plain nonsense. This is why Prophets are called of God to continue to restore His gospel. Otherwise, why would there be a need for a Prophet after Moses since God had revealed the 10 commandments already. Mosaic law was continually changed and updated as Hod saw the need to do so. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

[@danbailey2964]

@@brianc.1149 You make a lot of claims. Maybe you could provide a demonstration and evidence for each one that a person could examine and determine if your claims are in fact true.

[@brianc.1149]

Let's just start with animal sacrifice. The firstlings of a flock are no longer taken to Jewish temples to be sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin. There were 48 Prophets and 7 Prophetesses in the Old Testament, yet a God who claims to be the same yesterday, today and forever doesn't have a Prophet among the Jews? In the past few years, gospel changes have been made by Jesus Christ through his living Prophets. While DOCTRINE hasn't been changed, they way we worship has.

[@andrewolsen2711]

43:43 regarding destroying the printing press - the context is needed here. Remember that Joseph Smith is just fresh from the experience of being victimized by mob violence and thrown in prison. Johnny said that 'Joseph was himself becoming militant'. This just isn't true. He was desperately trying to prevent mob violence, which is also why he came back across the river and gave himself up. He wanted to prevent the militia from turning violent on the Mormons.

[@gladbod300]

Well done! Also, it's misleading when he says Joseph kept it a secret until 1823. He told his father the next day, and soon after, he also shared it with a Methodist preacher who consequently treated him with "great contempt". So by 1823, essentially everyone knew by word of mouth and rumor that Joseph had seen a vision. (my widows mite haha)

[@robbiejohnson1013]

It was bugging me that he said that too! It's literally in his first vision account.

[@dr33776]

That's not true, he told people about the plates but he didn't mention the first vision before he wrote it down in 1832. Isn't it curious that no one (not even his family or anti mormons) knew about the first vision until many years after it allegedly happened?

[@gladbod300]

​@@dr33776 Thank you, it’s not explicit that he told his Father (that was about the plates in 1823), but according to his account, it's pretty clear that he didn't wait until 1823 or 1832, and was open about it. And the chance that he didn’t tell those closest to him would be very unlikely: JS_H 1:21 “Some few days after I had this vision, I happened to be in company with one of the Methodist preachers...and...took occasion to give him an account of the vision which I had had...” JS_H 1:22 “I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution…” So yes, if that false claim was true, it would indeed be suspicious, hence why Johnny said it.

[@dr33776]

@jaredjensen3937 I mean, if you take as gospel his 1838 account, there's nothing that can dissuade you to consider that he retrofitted and exaggerated his visions as he saw fit. There are clear contradictions between his 1832 account and later versions of the first vision. Why would you give more weight to a late account than the first and only one written by his own hand? If he told the methodist preacher about it and suffered persecution, why was everyone unaware of the first vision? The first "anti mormon" book mormonism unvailed goes hard after the smiths, talking about seer stones, trasure digging, being lazy, drunks, cheaters, etc. yet not a single mention of the first vision. Not a single mention of a vision by Alexander Campbell. The unedited lucy mack smith biography does not mention a first vision. There was no religious excitement in palmyra in 1820. His family joined the Presbyterian church AFTER Alvin dies, so that messes the chronology as the revival would've taken place in 1824, when he was 18 and after moroni allegedly visited him in September 1823.

[@gburt3892]

@@dr33776 wait, you’re assuming since the chronological ordering doesn’t add up that this makes everything invalid??? I know in your mind you think that makes this whole story false, but I’m a little shocked this would be the basis of your doubts. The idea that everything should have been documented from day one, in the meantime, the smith family had no idea what the outcome would be for many years after, makes a ton more sense why things weren’t well documented back then. If it was, I’d probably have way more doubts. That would seem way more suspicious…

[@mattpowell6291]

Your explanation of the treasure hunter doesn't exactly paint Joseph Smith in a non paganistic light. Just because others that claimed to be Christians believed in a buried treasure spiritual myth, doesn't mean they were according to ACTUAL Christian standards

[@CarlosRomero-pl9tk]

even tho i never had a faith crisis, this channel has helped me know the history of the church in a way that i would not know how to learn it or even have time for it. This channel is amazing, thank you saints unscripted, you guys are amazing!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thank you for your support!!

[@Red-gp9hn]

I fully agree with you! I’m in the same boat.

[@davidsnell2605]

Thanks man! Thanks for watching.

[@CarlosRomero-pl9tk]

I testify that plain and precious things were taken out, and what were they? None other than the doctrine of Christ. In John 1:25, what did the pharisees ask him? They asked “Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?” Why do you think this is important? Conventional christianity would have you believe that the doctrine of Christ came about during the time of Christ. Tell me where is there evidence of this doctrine in the Old Testament? And if not found, why then did these Pharisees essentially ask “who gave you authority?” instead of asking “ what are you doing?” If the doctrine of Christ was never taught to ancient Israel, why was Jesus or any of his apostles never challenged by what they were doing in the sense of knowing where they were getting these teachings from? Paul, being born a Pharisee himself never had a problem teaching Christ to the early Christians who were Jew, why? Because they knew. And the Book of Mormon is evidence of that. That's why Nephi spoke about it with boldness. The book of Mormon is true, I testify that it is. @@brettpinion4233

[@luisfelipefaria9404]

Your church literally banned black people from priesthood for over 100 years + the second leader of your church made Utah the only slave territory in the west + you guys literally believe native Americans descend from israelites + you guys believe that white skinned Israelites formed the original people of Moroni + Joseph Smith held multiple wives + Joseph Smith got his golden tables in a Language that doesn’t exist + the LDS church acts like many mega churches owning land, hotels, genealogy websites and etc.

[@jerry_phillips]

Joseph was such a talented charlatan that he somehow convinced three witnesses that they saw and heard an angel presenting gold plates, fabricated metal plates that he was able to pass off as an ancient record to eight more, convinced Sidney Rigdon that he saw a vision, convinced Oliver Cowdery that John the Baptist and Peter, James and John conferred the priesthood on them, and most amazing he duped me some 143 years after his death that I had received a miraculous witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon that subsequently turned the entire direction of my life. Greatest con-man ever!

[@racealexander1660]

Also remember that the 3 heard the voice of God from the heavens declare they were true. As if the angel wasn't enough! Lol. Loved your testimony

[@chrisblanc663]

Conmen gonna con men.

[@jerry_phillips]

@@chrisblanc663 Even if it takes fabricating a book that draws men and women to a deep relationship with Christ while conning them to believe an angel appeared to them and testified of its correct translation, being tarred and feathered, thrown into jail for months at a time, building multiple faithful communities, sending out multiple missionaries throughout the world, etc. Hey if that’s what it takes to con men it’s all worth it. Am I right?!

[@chrisblanc663]

@@jerry_phillips hahaha🤣🤣

[@carolinasalinas408]

As someone who’s had a faith crisis and is very skeptical, I don’t need another ex Mormon to be the one to explain history. I’m sure he’s done his research, but I really don’t get people who have left for years and still decide to dedicate hours and days and even years to try to prove a religion wrong. In fact it just shows me that he has not healed in a lot of ways. I know a lot of ex Mormons who really are content living life and moving on. But I guess this is the content that brings money and views.

[@jabulani22shepo61]

Of course he is miserable and money comes in to play. Your friends have not moved on I bet they are part of an ex mormon community and roam the internet bashing the church.

[@HalE14]

Exactly. I totally agree that he has not healed. I think the reason so many can’t let it go is because it was such a part of their lives. They probably had lots of family and leaders pressuring them a lot so that doesn’t really go away when they leave because they still feel like they have to prove something. Truthfully, I see this more as a people problem than a gospel problem, but that’s something they have to find themselves.

[@HalE14]

@@jabulani22shepo61 I don’t entirely agree with that. I have family who left the church around the time I was born. They do have their disagreements with the church and have been open about them but for the most part, they really aren’t obsessed with proving anyone wrong or talking about how bad it is. If anything, they actually recognize a lot of the good about church and have attended church meetings with us even when they were definitely out. They know that it has a lot of meaning to their loved ones and they recognize that meaning and embrace it. Maybe there’s a lot they don’t talk about but for the most part, I really don’t think they go to ex Mormon communities and talk trash. They live pretty busy and fulfilling lives and I would be really surprised if they actually spend time doing that.

[@carolinasalinas408]

I think I this is something I’ve observed: they claim the church is binary and dogmatic. But when people leave they leave and it’s allllll out. They still have the “dogmatic” in them. They are in fact being binary in their decisions. Not gonna lie. Im sure Johnny is a great guy but his eyes…his stare is really hollow and he doesn’t transmit any peace.

[@TaskForceB]

Because it’s false doctrine and we must tear it down.

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

The Gold rush was completely founded on treasure seeking.

[@TomorrowsChild86]

I was raised LDS I married a catholic and we have 4 children 2 have stayed active and 2 are not active.. They are not in any way “brainwashed” to say the least .. and I love them all equally and have raised wonderful loving beautiful children who are kind intelligent humans .. do I wish they would all go to church .. of course I do but I know that everything will be ok because I raised them well.. And I know they love the Lord .. you can’t dwell on it .. only take it one day at a time and be a good Christ like example ..

[@carlosjosejimenezbermudez9255]

People love blaming the prejudice of their parents onto the religion they followed, even though the prejudice is against the tenets of the religion itself.

[@general-i15]

Read Proverbs 23:31-33 and Leviticus 20:13. They debunk the Catholic cult. Also, 1 Corinthians 15:29 proves the Church of Jesus Christ true.

[@BEAGS19774]

​@@general-i15No. Nothing in the Torah proves that. You need to use the new testament to prove your faith. I can read Hebrew. Jesus is never mentioned in Tanakh. I'm sorry.

[@libelle8124]

Shame Johnny Harris's video was so short. Mormonism on MythVision Podcast is much more detailed and in 27 videos about one hour each. An eye opener and worth watching.

[@sleepingwithcats5121]

How ironic I'm listening to this a second time how ironic that Johnny says Joseph Smith found audience in doing so... From what I can see, Johnny has found audience in doing so.

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

Exactly, Johnny the prophet. leading those astray and giving validation with inaccurate facts.

[@GregFessia]

Johnny the profit seeker, not Johnny the prophet seeker!

[@ryanthompson3737]

...He found his audience while working at VOX where he wasn't really allowed to speak on his beliefs. He posted that kind of content on HIS channel. Then, of course, he left VOX and started his own youtuber journalism channel which is when it began popping off. He isn't famous because he used to be in the church, that's just a quirky fact about him. He's famous because he does deep dives into global political conflict, completely removed of any sort of religious bias. In fact, when he posted that video his most popular videos were about mcdonalds ice cream machines, why people think the world is flat, and the man putin fears the most, with 7.3, 4.7, and 3.9 million views respectively. He also had almost 1.5 million subs too.. Point is, you'd either have to be stupid or be arguing in bad faith to say he got his fame from abandoning the church.

[@LdsTiktokPreservation]

A great response video that should be mandatory viewing along side Johnny’s explanation of our history. I wouldn’t say all of what he said is what we “actually” believe or I would share his biased opinions. I see all the same history and “actually” believe it differently than he does and there are huge reasons for that. It would be interesting for him to include why people believe differently than he does beyond Joseph Smith being charismatic, and creating something that sounds appealing and as his says “magical.” It goes way beyond that. Many of us for instance have tested God’s word found in these scriptures and found them to be absolutely true to their word and promises. Many of us for instance have seen and experienced the priesthood in action just like people did in the New Testament. Many of us know we don’t have to take Joseph’s word or story at face value and can receive our own divine witness of the restoration etc. The list goes on. I personally see the simplicity beyond the complexity because I know the history of Christ’s church and followers have human flaws. It’s always been that way, as shown throughout the Old and New Testament, so when I here about a church leader or historical figure making a mistake, Christ’s church isn’t a glass house that shatters when a stone is tossed at it. Anyway, this video shouldn’t be called what “Mormon’s Actually Believe” rather “What I (Johnny) Actually Believe Based on My Biased Interpretation and Conclusions” which are not the same conclusions of believing members who look at the same material, without the reductions and facts left out of this version of our story. Anyway, thank you for all the people behind SU. This is a fair and well presented response :)

[@AvantNovis]

Amen and amen

[@deboraholsen2504]

Excellent analysis and explanation! Thank you for being so thoughtful and honest and sincere.

[@philerup.youtube]

lol

[@keepinitreal938]

​@@AvantNovismandatory by whom? No one should be mandating anything to anyone. Especially not a religious video

[@LdsTiktokPreservation]

A mandatory suggestion for anyone who wants to understand all sides of a story. In all intellectual pursuits, evidence is something that needs to be considered collectively. If people like their info lopsided they of course have the agency to accept it as so. If you don’t wish the suggestion, no one can force you to do anything. Change the channel.

[@TheTamihaymond]

I'm so so so so so grateful that your channel exists!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks for your support!

[@RyanMercer]

It is pretty great :)

[@davidsnell2605]

We're grateful you watch it!

[@richardclark2495]

One thing that, perhaps, Johnny doesn't realize is that one of the largest sources he uses to support his views of Joseph Smith and our history is Richard Bushman, a faithful Latter-day Saint. Throughout history, we have seen what happens when society deems a group an "other." Johnny's video, which has over a million views, is just one of many things that contributes to larger society viewing members of our church as an "other." Tell the story of our church, please, but keep out your attempts to make us look strange or weird or cult-like.

[@Justanotherdad17]

As a believing Latter Day Saint, I really love and appreciate your reaction to this.

[@davidcooper1201]

Ah, the Mormon Church has no way to authenticate its history expect internally within the church itself. It makes the claim to restore the lost gospel when the gospel was never lost but has always been clearly proclaimed in the only Word of God, the Bible, not the Book of Mormon which in reality was nothing more but a book that heavily steals from the Old Testament.

[@paulblack1799]

Unless you accept Johnny's syrup sweet voiced setup none of this makes any sense. BTW Joseph Smith Sr. Was deeply religious, holding devotionals twice a day that neighbors made a point to attend. He simply was not swayed by the preachers of the day.

[@latter-daysaintbatman2679]

And people hated him for being right. The church remains true. Joseph Smith was right!

[@Yeayaz]

Very ironic of you to say that his video makes no sense

[@paulblack1799]

@@Yeayaz Not at all... but then, I don't expect that you are very discerning. 😆

[@Yeayaz]

@@paulblack1799 you can believe in your made up story all you want, just don’t go about criticizing others for making no sense when you actually believe that stuff Joseph smith did

[@willcareterana9186]

A few years ago, as I was preparing to serve a mission my cousin visited me at my house one night evening. After learning that I was going to serve a mission, she asked me a pretty compelling question that changed my entire life. "Do you know that the Church is true?" She said, "Do you know that the Book of Mormon is really true?" I was stunned. For the first time in my life, I dug deep into whether I really knew these things to be true or not. I grew up in the church, my dad served as a Stake President before and I've always known that I had to go on a mission. I've always been taught that these were true but I never really had a solid testimony of these things. My cousin, seeing at that time that I couldn't answer her straight, she said, "If you don't know these things yet, please hold your feet that you won't go on a mission because you will just go home." For me, that was a really pivotal moment in my life. So I dedicated a year for me to really know if these things I have been taught all my life. In my search for the truth, I have found out through the Holy Ghost that these are really true. That the Book of Mormon is really indeed a word and a work of God. Joseph Smith was called to be a prophet. I know it and I could not deny it. It is amazing to search for whether Joseph was a legitimate writer or storyteller or whether the Book of Mormon really does connect with the Bible or gives facts about Jesus Christ but I think the most important thing we can do or what matters the most is we will know if the Book of Mormon is true or not. If we believe in God, then we know that He listens and hears our prayers. We can ask. If God lives, He will answer. Through the Book of Mormon, I have come much closer to Jesus Christ along with the Bible. I don't believe it is the work of the adversary himself to make such a thing only for you to have a stronger belief and faith in Jesus Christ. We can always ask, and we can always get answers from the right sources. I used to be a person where everything has to make sense and everything has to connect logically but these things are spiritual, and they can be answered spiritually because Jesus can.

[@robertsmith-hd2lx]

❤

[@danbailey2964]

You found out through the holy ghost? Please describe what that is and how it can be demonstrated as anything other than your emotional bias working to confirm itself. The holy ghost isn't really an effective 'research' method.

[@SabrinaMeShell]

I am a convert to the church. I , too, have become much closer to Christ through the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon. I was baptized Oct 20, 2023 and confirmed Oct. 22, 2023. I believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet. I have great peace. I am learning more about the Bible than I ever did in my former church. I am grateful for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the restored gospel is healing my life. I am so grateful for a living prophet, and all that our Heavenly Father gives us; he gives us revelation, the opportunity for daily repentance, and the gift of the Covenant Path.

[@BddJnr]

@@danbailey2964 Gal 5:16 “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” The Bible itself states that you should be guided by the Holy Ghost.

[@BddJnr]

@@danbailey2964 Joh 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”

[@ethanjohnaldrich]

David, you reacted to this is so much empathy, patience, and tact.

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

I'm failing to see the empathy, patience, and tact...

[@nancyd4250]

@@Compulsive-Elk7103agree, it gave me a headache at how defensive he was every 3 seconds.

[@towardcivicliteracy]

I've watched several of Johnny's videos, on occasion. Usually it's his videos about public policy and politics that catch my eye. Very smart guy. I don't always agree with him, but he gives me much to think about, and I appreciate it. Johnny did a video about why he left the Church before he did the video that was reviewed here, but it seemed sort of vague to me about exactly why he left. He mentioned that he had some psychological issues, particularly on his mission, and his description sounded a lot like a condition called religious scrupulosity. As I have had a similar experience with the Church, but thankfully found help THROUGH the Church rather than leaving it, I can definitely attest to the fact that he's probably had a very hard faith path to walk.

[@starzilla2975]

Yeah, I had something similar, but it was called religious trauma to me by my therapist. My therapist was agnostic, and I was able to get through all my issues without leaving the church. It can get very complicated when personal experiences compound on our beliefs which compounds on our knowledge and understanding of something like this.

[@danielwalker2381]

@@starzilla2975you’re very faithful and brave to not leave! I totally understand why some leave the church, but so many think that we endorse things like SA, amongst other things. I read a comment that got hundreds of likes where someone said that our church supports it. That’s not only so far from the truth, but tries to link the few horribly bad apples with the good fruit. It’s a bandwagon so many hop on, defend, and die on. It’s sad and attempts to disgrace in a way the so many wonderful and faithful members. I’ve had an undeniable witness from the Spirit that this is the restored gospel and the fact that people claim to say they had a witness that this isn’t the true church, I would be very careful in how you discerned that as Satan comes as an angel of light. I know my experience was not from the “angel of light” but was truly from the Spirit.

[@deborahyoung7941]

If I were you I would ignore the bishop's advice not to read "anti-mormon" literature or articles! There is some of that, but there is an awful lot of truth out there too! If you study everything in the church history and can reconcile that with everything you've been told, that should lead you to the reality of the truth. I don't believe most members really know enough about the real beliefs of the church to make an honest belief in all of it. Don't be duped! Look deeply into what they believe before you committ your life and your family's life to it!

[@danielwalker2381]

@@deborahyoung7941 honestly yes. But also, the most important thing is a witness from God whether it is true or not and I received a witness at a time when I was highly mentally unstable and about to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital. When I had the witness from the Spirit (while a friend was reading a book titled ‘The Heavens Are Open’ by Wendy M. Nelson), I literally thought I was condemned to Hell because I was in an ultra delusional state. It took me months before I realized that that was God giving me a witness from the Spirit about the restored gospel. More than anything though, I’m a follower of Christ. I’m not just a 100% listening to church content-no. I go through a lot of content on YT and IG (and some TikTok) from Christian content creators and I have learned a huge wealth of knowledge. Demons aren’t really talked about in the LDS church and I really really wish they were because they are constantly trying to find ways to tempt and open doors to ultimately attempt to steal, kill, and destroy us, like what almost happened to me with an eating disorder and almost dying. I’m so freaking glad that I didn’t die and that I pushed through the physical and mental disability I experienced from it for months and came out conqueror. I can’t thank God enough for giving me another chance to redeem myself, commit myself 100000% to Him each and every day and to better following the callings he’s personally been giving me through personal revelation. Thank you Jesus 😭❤️‍🔥

[@chrisblanc663]

@@deborahyoung7941I find it odd when people say that members of a church don’t really know what they believe. I agree that not everyone can act as spokesman for a church. But a member is THE expert on what they believe. I can only tell you what I believe, and you won’t get a better representation then from me. I don’t pretend to know everything about the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but as a member of the church I can tell you, I believe in a living passionate God. I know Jesus is my Savior, I know the Bible is the word of God and related humanities relationship with God, and the Book of Mormon is its companion in testifying of the mission of Jesus Christ. I know that we can only act in Gods authority with His permission, and that we MUST follow the path Jesus laid out for us. I know God is a God of miracles, and grants the sincere searcher with revelation, and gifts to bless others.

[@AvantNovis]

I don’t apologize for the restoration I own the history rejoice in its divine nature.

[@IuliaBlaga]

The thing that urks me s that he keeps saying the book was written. No author, no matter how talented and knowledgeable, was able to create something as miraculous as The Book of Mormon. Let alone a farmer in the 1820s. This is why we need to rely on The Spirit when it comes to out belief. When we take it upon our own wisdom, as limited beings, we will be easily deceived.

[@tykempton8562]

You should take a few hours sometime and look at some of the great works of literature that were created in the same amount of time as the book of mormon. I was astounded at how many. I am not going to give examples as it just takes a few minutes to put in your own search criteria. I will say it is not uncommon for someone to write a great novel in a very short period of time.

[@zionmama150]

24:12 umm… obviously, he’s never read the book of Esdras, because it talks about the lost 10 tribes, making their way to the land of Arzareth, which is thought by many Jewish rabbis to be the lands of America. You ask any Jewish rabbi where they think the 10 tribes ended up and they will tell you that they ended up in Europe and the Americas, or, as Isaiah put it the “lands of the north”

[@gregorybezanson]

There's no archeological remains of the cities or even the geography of central America talked about in the Book of Mormon.

[@Homepageturned]

The witnesses left the church because they couldn't handle the persecution. They never denied seeing the plates.

[@MichaelOfHerndon]

And Oliver Cowdery rejoined the church.

[@working4ever]

I am so grateful you did this video. I saw that he posted this video, and I saw his original video. I have been studying church history for 15 years now, and it's incredibly frustrating to me to hear him misrepresent the gospel and its history. I feel more at peace hearing you along for the ride, because I was interested in what he had to say, but it makes it bearable with your meek, logical and humble commentary.

[@working4ever]

“We believe in the in the Bible to be the word of God so long as it is translated correctly.” The Old Testament is one of our standard works. I don’t see the jump in logic that finding the dead scrolls equals that the Old Testament is *perfectly* translated or that it would discount the validity of the Book of Mormon. In fact, there are variabilities within the Dead Sea scrolls that don’t perfectly match the Bible and some groups believe this disproves all of Christianity “lore”. The Book of Mormon would not exist without the Old Testament and both are cherished in the gospel. But again, logic alone is not enough to establish a relationship with Christ and understand his doctrine seeing as there is much controversy surrounding the Dead Sea scrolls as well.

[@memahselfni]

Im sorry, where exactly did he misrepresent the gospel or history? I also am an armchair historian of Mormon history and while I did get hung up in one or two places, he’s generally correct from my research.

[@taddy_mason4197]

His video was more than fair towards the lds faith. If anything he was holding way back. That was a very kind video from someone who respects his family and loved ones who still belong to the church. Because the lds church has an endless supply of dirty laundry, he could have chose to air out in this video if he was trying to make the church look bad.

[@working4ever]

​@@memahselfni So, I'm actually not the only one who has a problem with the way Johnny Harris explains history on his youtube channel. You can look up people critiquing his videos claiming he likes to rewrite world history. He says things that with even just a little more nuance make his conclusions deceptive. Like in this one, "America wasn't super religious," that's not true. They were extremely religious, but didn't necessarily have a chapel to attend due to cities being very underdeveloped. He mentions polygamy in ugly terms but doesn't mention any of the context behind it, or question why Joseph Smith, the supposed pedophilic sex addict who was vying for power and married other people's wives didn't have a single child with anyone else. The whole point of polygamy is to garner power in the community through children because it inexplicably ties people to him so that they can't escape. Especially if he shared children with other leaders wives... but he doesn't... and it's super weird. He's either cosmically lucky or... infertile, and he wasn't infertile. All you have to do is look at other examples of major polygamists to see the vast difference in behavior between them and Joseph Smith. Anyways, Harris is very moderate in his approach which makes him look like a proper authority source while he cherry picks the narrative and this isn't the only video he's done that with.

[@working4ever]

@@brettpinion4233 Yes, we worship a living Jesus who continues to speak to us through chosen authority. I believe Christ continues revelation to his children. If Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever, then he would sent a prophet... like he's *always *done. He continue commanding prophets to write down scripture, as he's *always* done. Every generation scorns the idea of a prophet. Even Jerusalem thought they were "too modern" to have a prophet. Do you believe in the same Jesus who commanded and gave authority to specific men to write down his doctrine to preach the gospel? If you do, then we believe in the same Christ, if not, then Bernard P. Brockbank was correct. When I read Mathew 7:15, and it says to beware of false prophets, I think of thousands of christian denomination pastors claiming they have the truth, and that other christian sects are wrong. They are "wolves" in sheep's clothing because they feign not being prophets but they act like they are, claiming their christian theology is superior to others... like the catholics, the mennonites, the protestants, the evangelicals all have their little prophets. My prophet claims authority, he is the head of an extremely organized church with solid doctrine, and has even provided more scripture of *other* prophets. And that scripture you said was blasphemous, that scripture feels not only clearer, but more truthful to me. Joseph didn't sell a lie. Christ commanded it. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Was christ mistaken? Do you know what perfection means? If a person was perfect... what would that do to them? Joseph said perfection means godliness so, unless you have a different definition, that one seems legit.

[@THEMADHATTRESS]

I am in the process of converting to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (I am new and don't want to be disrespectful by saying LDS or Mormon, not sure what is and isn't okay). Since losing my husband to cancer at only 23, I haven't felt this strongly about anything beyond my children. Johnny, in him, I see a lot of hurt and anger and almost defiance? I feel sad for what he's going through as his pain is evident and my experience in the church has been joyful. Like he's almost angry at himself and the church. I would not be suprised if one day he comes back and also if he does not. I hope he finds peace regardless. As for me...I have not found such happiness outside of my husband and children. God is good! I am very grateful for the restored church. And also for this channel 💜.

[@mascotbenches5146]

Look. I'm not sure if the start of his video is where this reaction started but can anyone living in this moment say that they know Joseph Smith well? If that is how he starts then the rest of his video probably continues down the same track. Even if he has read all of the Joseph Smith papers he is not in position to make this claim and him doing so leads to a very large eye roll for me right out of the gate. No man knows my history....

[@chrisblanc663]

I think he meant, know of JS well. I grew up knowing the JS story, and have read biographies letters etc. I wouldn’t say I know him well, since I never met the man, but I have a pretty decent idea about him.

[@Faridenunez]

Do any of you guys know why some people say no one really saw the plates? I heard that on an interview with David Archuleta’s mom

[@jck-nrtn]

So, this comes from the 3 and 8 witnesses. The 3 witnesses claim they were not shown the physical plates, but an angel showed them. The 8 witnesses did indeed testify that they saw the physical plates.

[@paulblack1799]

Rather than calling his video 'What Mormons Really Believe' it would have been more accurate to have called it 'What I have renegotiated myself into presenting as LDS beliefs and history in order to convince myself and others that my waning faith is actually a positive thing.'

[@jessewilson7809]

Or calling it: "another video to get nearly an hours-worth of views from all pro and anti LDS youtube enjoyers because... $$$"

[@AvantNovis]

Or as Peter said “a dog returns to his own vomit” 2 Peter 2:22.

[@blackmber]

The part I couldn't stand was when he "summarized" Joseph's life into a reduced comparison of abusive cult leaders. Would you do that with Abraham, Jacob, or King David? By pruning a story down to three or four points, you can make it sound just like almost any other story you choose. It's even a meme format. The harm is when the audience doesn't know much about one of the stories, and fills in the blanks with the other one. In Joseph Smith's case, the similarity ends with those few points.

[@ashleygetz6314]

You did great responding David! Gracious approach. Thank you for taking the time to do so 😊

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks for being here!

[@anonymoustruth5950]

Come on you all! LDS is such horrific deception from Satan. How in the world do you fall for this nonsense?

[@Mindsetsonfire]

The Bible doesn't tell us that we should go treasury hunting and we help souls from people that passed away. That's the problem with the LDS church. They have so many beliefs and traditions that are not biblical.

[@JacenCB]

From the first moment of the video - Johnny misses Hebrews 12:2 - Jesus Christ is the 'author' and 'finisher' of our 'faith'. Not Joseph Smith Jr. That applies to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints . . .

[@chrisblanc663]

Amen, and amen!

[@cruelcarp5516]

I've been a member of the church since 1988. I heard nothing that Jonny said that wasn't accurate and true

[@sleepingwithcats5121]

I love you David... You are an authentic and Good person.

[@brendakauffman2222]

So much to say, scripture tells us the test for the true prophet: Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Joseph continued to state he saw buried treasure where there was none and that goes against the test of a true prophet, and scripture says if the thing the prophet prophecies doesn't come to pass, it is not what the Lord has spoken. Joseph Smith was into divination, which the Bible says is wrong & most definitely not "Christian" when the seer stone was gotten from a witch. I mean In scripture it says when you go into the world not to take on the practices & "abominations" Plus, one isn't to add to scripture or take away from it, and the book of Mormon goes against actual scripture. Then free masons actually worship lucifer and has occult practices, so God isn't going to weave those practices into a "true church." On Devination: "Deu 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. " I mean Joseph gets a seer stone from a witch( which God told his people not to consult), and he searches unsuccessfully for hidden treasure, and then he uses the same stone to interpret the gold plates that no one but him saw. That isn't a credible person and God isn't going to go against scripture and now say this stuff is fine. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? The key is God doesn't change and he also said not to add anything to scripture: Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus was always God, he didn't come to earth to work his way to godhood: Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Don't add to or take away from scripture: Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. God doesn't change, he doesn't want things added to or taken away from scripture. He doesn't want us using the practices of people who are ungodly, like witches and wizards. Really there is nothing Christian about divination. The key no matter what church you are from, does the doctrine you were taught, does what is claimed match up to scripture? God doesn't change what he doesn't want us to do. Magic is magic and it's not what God wants his people to do.

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

The problem is David, you're not listening. You're already being bias and criticizing johnny. Please listen first and try not to correct him on everything. You're just being defensive every 3 seconds

[@RyanMercer]

Johnny needs corrected, he showed a photo of Joseph's wife and said it was his mother... if he can't get that detail accurate, what else is he lying/wrong about?

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

@@RyanMercer that's now what I meant. If johnny is explicitly stating something false , then he needs correction but to clarify more on my OP. What David fails to do is to listen and have an open heart to Johnny's story, as many current members also fail to do. Many ex members just wanna be heard but the current members have this more holier than thou attitude and wanna be biased and just wanna correct everything. David's not being a disciple of Christ Take this from a never mo Glory be to Jesus Christ ☦️🙏❤️

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

​@@jirohpagesoh I hear them out alright.

[@thelastgoonie6555]

Your MAJOR HURDLE doesn't mention the printer fixing errors, adding punctuation, multiple editions, 1000's of changes, his family members also writing books, Hyrum's education, Dartmouth access, John Smith's sermons...On and on and on. Not only could Joseph write it, Joseph was the only one the content intersects and points to. Of course he wrote it.

[@EricLovesCHRIST]

I used to think the Book of Mormon was demonic and that Joseph used demons to write it When I left the church for a watered down gospel I thought the Book of Mormon was wrong because it was the full version of the gospel (faith plus works) When I left the watered down gospel for the real Christian gospel faith repentance baptism Holy Spirit Endure , I had to also abandon the demon theory of the BoM Mostly though, I am LDS now because God told me

[@zombieslayer2961]

I’m lds but I think your understanding is often weak and shallow, and condescending to real and more rigorous research. You can’t brush of the facts.

[@-tikla]

Its so odd to when former members make it seem like the thing that is so cool and compelling about the restored church is the treasure, magic, wives and heavenly mother, and then declare it was discovering those obscure elements that shattered their testamony? It can't be both!

[@jonbaker476]

I would personally disagree with your statment. To me, it would be like you meeting a girl who's adventurous and exciting and is extremely energentic and bubbly, but then discover that all those endearing characteristics are only a part of her because she's a cocain addict, and she's been high every time you saw those endearing qualities. Suddenly, those endearing qualities take on a very different image than what you had originally seen and had been excited about. That's a weird analogy but the point is that two things can be true at a time. At first, the things you loved and learned were great, but then as you learn more about those qualities, you realize that what seems like a good thing on the surface is actually a bad thing.

[@jonbaker476]

Or, if you're a woman, it would be like if you married a man who was incredibly fit and hard-working but then you discovered he was a drug addict, which was the only way he could accomplish what he had accomplished. What you originally found to be intriguing and endearing suddenly flips and becomes tainted and repulsive. You suddenly begin to question everything, even your own sense of judgment and expectations

[@mkbkjensen]

“Oliver Cowdrey is my guy. “ Oliver is the one that accused Joseph of being a charlatan and having a dirty, nasty affair. He was excommunicated for that and catching Joseph with Fanny Alger. Bruh read more history

[@chrisblanc663]

We all make mistakes, maybe he likes him for other reasons??

[@GStar-qd5oi]

BEAUTIFUL explanation of simplicity beyond complexity......Push through it! Study, pray, humble ourselves, be willing to discover and hope and then it's revealed....Johnny absolutely stopped...I feel for him as well, but maybe sooner or later he will try and push through that complexity and see the simple beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Plural marriage will be explained to us in about 30 seconds in the next life and we will go...oh, now I get it. The complexity is real, it's tough to overcome and the adversary is literally hell bent on messing with us and ruining our faith in JESUS CHRIST...because it's really all about growing our faith in him. Great video David!

[@May-c5q]

This is what happens when pseudo-intellectuals attempt to defend the indefensible. Faith placed on folklore is not a substitute for faith based on empirical evidence.

[@tzuca56]

I’m so grateful for this channel, I watched his video and had very similar thoughts. The fact that he portrays everything from a “more enlightened” position is ridiculous. I can understand coming to different conclusions, but his conclusion is not anymore enlightened or better than ours.

[@baonemogomotsi7138]

Mormonism isn't Christianity, stop. It's just a caricature of it, much like Gnosticism

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"but his conclusion is not anymore enlightened or better than ours." That is *pride* talking. "I was stupid, now I am smart!" And in a year or two or ten, suddenly he will be smarter yet.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@baonemogomotsi7138 "Mormonism isn't Christianity" What a relief! Knowing the answer to simple questions is a relief. Knowing to whom Jesus prayed, for starters.

[@baonemogomotsi7138]

@@thomasmaughan4798Typical Mormon coherence. Read your Bible, pray every day, and find God. Of course cultists wouldn't understand why but may The Lord help you.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@baonemogomotsi7138 "Typical Mormon coherence. Read your Bible, pray every day, and find God." For me the sequence was somewhat the other way round. I found God or more precisely he found me, then I found and read the Book of Mormon and it answered many questions, then I read the bible. I prayed as often as needed. "may The Lord help you." Thank you; he has.

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

Would you please substantiate your assertions that 1.Paul spoke against marriage and 2. He did so because because he thought Jesus was returning soon? I find neither to be in Scripture.

[@BrendonKing]

He did speak against marriage, but not for that reason. Paul taught it was better to consecrate your life to ministry and service which husbands and wives can’t by virtue of having commitments to each other.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

@@BrendonKing I don't consider that speaking "against" marriage (e.g. "don't get married. marriage is lousy, etc." And he did say it's better to marry than to burn, and that a young widow could/should remarry! He was rightly pro-singleness to be devoted whole heartedly to the Lord, and it certainly had nothing to do with how soon the Lord is going to return. This is a video of someone trying to correct someone else and yet they can't get their own points right either.

[@AdamHuishStreaming]

I appreciate both where you and Johnny come from. As a white, lds, grew up and gave my life to the church member for 27 years of my life, I feel connected to both of you. For myself, leaving the LDS church is one of the proudest decisions of my life, I was incredibly brave in the face of massive social pressure, and leaving has been the best thing for my life even though I was so terrified to do so. We are all on this journey together in one way or another. One step at a time, in our own unique individual way.

[@michaellocke628]

If marriage was vital to enter the celestial kingdom Paul wouldn't have said what he did. Also it would've been all throughout the new testament about celestial marriage. Book of Colossians speaks to this and says God qualified us and brought us into the Kingdom. Mormon doctrine is false

[@joeshawcroft7121]

Wonderful response video. Thanks for taking the time.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@teresawilson4761]

Quite frankly I do think that learning the gospel would probably be hard for me to believe if someone just explained it to me, but that’s not why I started going to church. I was going through a hard time and I was confused. I prayed and received an answer for myself. I started going to church and I’ve never felt a joy inside like I do now. People can say anything they want to me about what to believe, but that experience has changed me ❤ D&C 9:8-9

[@jbjefe]

It really bothers me that you think an objective historical lens doesn't exist.

[@amonk32]

Facts can be objective. Historical interpretation of those facts isn't. It doesn't mean the way we interpret history is always wrong, but it's usually very nuanced and one interpretation can't answer for every facet of a particular historical event. And anyone claiming they have an objective view about anything should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

[@emiliawisniewski3947]

Harris’ video is very thoughtful. As a Catholic, I found it useful to watch to get a more balanced view of the church that I myself obviously do not participate in. Although he has some clear bitterness towards the LDS Church, he does point to clear historical fact that should be a point of challenge to all LDS members. The disappointment ultimately is that he appears to now be agnostic towards any faith, which is a complete tragic loss. The LDS church could learn from testimony like Harris’.

[@jjd-6358]

David, thanks for your reaction video. Also, thanks to Saints Unscripted over all these years. Your always giving me the assurance in these types of topics/videos that there's more than just what the critics say. That I can make an honest choice/argument for the restoration and this church and to stay. Looking forward to meeting ya'll at the Gather Together Conference this Saturday!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks for being here!!

[@davidsnell2605]

See you there!

[@elainekoeppel7250]

Talk to Wayne May about what he has found and what he knows about the Book of Mormon

[@matthewfullmer3739]

Fair Mormon has debunked Wayne may. Google it. His theories are interesting but not credible. Definitely not supported by the maxwell institute either.

[@meredithsatcher1714]

the mental gymnastics mormon apologists are able to do to conveniently explain away things puts Simone biles to SHAME. 10s all around!

[@brianc.1149]

Academics lose the concept of FAITH in relation to religion. Also, we KNOW there is only ONE who walked perfectly on this earth. There was a man who left the early church who denounced Joseph as a prophet simply because when he arrived in Nauvoo he met the Prophet while he was playing with his children in the yard. The gentleman felt this was beneath a Prophet of God. You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone.

[@jayholloway7874]

Johnny Harris was completely spot on and if you still believe this crap well then ENJOY

[@RyanWRoehlAKZoomberBoomer]

There is a 3rd Option for Joseph Smith Where he was doing good but he was controlled by the others aka Brigham Young and the other older people who have an Advisor to him and then he was well Younger and he was manipulation and he was doing good but behind the doors his advisors were telling him to do this and that

[@clayhurstfilm]

You’re much more diplomatic than I would’ve been. I do take serious issue with the arrogance of so many people that leave church that claim to be so much more enlightened now that they’ve left, and that active, believing members are being fooled. Like you said, we’ve all been presented with the same information, but have come to a very different conclusion. I feel like I’ve returned to the simplicity side of all the complexities of the Gospel and it’s beautiful.

[@michaelmichaelc1748]

There doesn’t seem to be any mention of What does Jesus Christ say about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. From my own experience l felt the power and presence of the Saviour with the Church membership well before l even heard of the Prophet Joseph Smith. I was taught the restoration story by the missionaries and the Spirit of the Lord was so present with a beautiful sense of peace, joy and truth and l still get spiritual witnesses from time to time today confirming my faith and that this is all God’s work. True l haven’t got every answer for our critics but as the Lord says in the scriptures we come to him through faith but by the power of the Holy Ghost we can receive reassuring witnesses of the truthfulness of the Saviours Gospel. I really enjoy your programs. Many thanks for for the work you and your team do.

[@ItsSnagret]

Just seems like Johnny is trying to deal with his cognitive dissonance of leaving the Church but having no solid worldview to stand one. So by making a straw-man video and having all his non-believing followers agree with his perspective it can help him cope.

[@HalE14]

Yup. The cognitive dissonance was clear to me. I can also see that he was hurt and angry but I commend him for handling it in a more mature way than others would

[@twizms7362]

It's crazy how condescending and hurtful almost all these comments are. I'm no longer mormon but were we not all taught kindness? He's simply sharing his own worldview just like your church is

[@danp1969]

The real story is there is no true Church, just as there is no false Church. There are just groups of people. As long as members of the Church keep demanding fellow members declare other Churches not true, members like Johnny will keep making videos and finding other less contentious groups of people to worship with. Worshiping with a group which declares it has cornered the market on correct theology, but then adopts the mantra "that was not doctrine" leaves something to be desired.

[@EricLovesCHRIST]

God told me 7 times the LDS church is true This is coming from a former anti Mormon

[@BubblesLarken-mr7dj]

Who? Plenty people in crazy psyc wards do same. Dies Lori Vallow talk God yikes

[@latter-daysaintbatman2679]

God and Jesus told me that the church is true over seven times.

[@jackdaw6359]

God told me the opposite many times

[@EricLovesCHRIST]

@@jackdaw6359 tell me more

[@shaneoaks1923]

@@jackdaw6359I’m sorry. I learned that the BOM was true after I went on a “religion quest” at the age of almost 20. I had searched majority of other religions. I didnt search the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints until last because I was from Utah and I thought I knew everything about them. Good luck!

[@JBattlePants]

You bring up contradictions to Harris's telling, such as how the translation was performed. The thing is, you are both right. Joseph told different, contradicting accounts depending on who/what and when. The church also published accounts of the translation process that contradict your explanation. 21:50 If it's a fraud it should be easier to detect...? I am confused by this statement. If you read the book, there are many issues that are easy to detect. The argument that Joseph was an uneducated farm boy actually makes sense to me, but not in support of it. Even setting aside anachronisms such as horses and steel which immediately invalidate the book, the geography never makes sense. Maybe you can make it fit in one location for one part, but then you need to move it to a different location for another. Travel and scale are all out of whack, and no one can make it 100% fit any known geological location. Genetics don't fit - Native Americans are not Jewish at all - not even a little bit. Archeology doesn't fit. It's not that we haven't found anything - it's that everything we've found has contradicted the BoM. The BoM talks about battles fought with millions. No evidence for it. We have evidence of smaller battles fought longer ago, but nothing of these massive battles. The temples in South America only seem to fit because the church's artwork depicts it that way. Otherwise, zero connection to the BoM. Let alone that to accept the BoM, you must accept the literal tower of babel. Tower of babel is obviously a fable, because that's not how language works. Language evolves almost like creatures do, and the evidence for that evolution is obvious. So, yes, I believe an uneducated farm boy could write the BoM. It's wrong at every turn. It reads like bible fanfiction. The only time things look like they support the BoM is when you twist and bend everything to fit it.

[@shaneoaks1923]

Every claim you listed has already been rebutted. If you look you will find the answers, but then you will be faced with other possible historical issues or doctrinal issues. The secondary questions about the church and Christianity in general are never ending. Good luck.

[@jacobbuzan374]

My great conclusion is: Johnny Harris has an imperfect view and inaccurate video about an imperfect man named Joseph Smith.

[@ambersheets8142]

I'm sure you are aware, Pastor Jeff from Hello Saints did a reaction video to this guy's "Why I left the Mormon church" video. Have you addressed these things with him? I'm curious how that went/goes.

[@davidsnell2605]

I have not spoken to Jeff about these Johnny Harris videos, no. Would definitely be an interesting conversation, though!

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

Sorry, just one last comment in regards to Johnny's video is that this lens that you point out that we use to view facts or information also is the same lens that we use towards historical figures in history; but the thing we leave out is that we are also judging these people from our perspective of the 21st century and not from a lens of their time period. I just think we are missing out on a critical point is that no one is perfect. No one! Then where do we go from there this is where your point comes in that faith trumps all of this. Also, would Johnny put his same standards on the Bible, and if so then it is also false because many of the stories are fantastical and outrageous as he calls them. So that means there is no God and when we die we are just worm food. While I have no ability to prove we aren't just worm food and that God exists, I have seen too much to believe that there isn't something else beyond the grave. I would rather hedge my bet that there is more than nothing because this belief and faith in more has led me to have such an amazing life. It has brought me and my family so much joy.

[@chihangbenjaminting647]

I think one very compeling evidence is that I have rarely seen anyone who left the Church become a stronger Christian. In fact, so rare that I couldn't come up with an example. Usually they just quit their faith in Jesus and God the Father altogether. Rarely go to any church, rarely pray, rarely actively thinking and living the teachings of Jesus. I respect their decision because God respects our agency. But is it a good decision? I think by the fruit ye shall know them.

[@jonathanduran8669]

Great reaction video David! I agree with your summary of Johnny’s video. Great production value, clearly biased from his opinion on the church. Johnny has a habit of claiming objective perspective in his videos, but this one is especially easy to see that it’s not objective at all.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks for your comment!

[@LatterDayTimes]

Also…what kind of theological expert do you need to be to create yourself into a prophet as Johnny suggests. As if Joseph was first determined to be a biblical prophet, and then his first act was to write a 500 page book at 23? Yes, much was left unaddressed to make such claims. The Bible would need to talk about an apostasy, a restoration, authority, etc. Joseph would have had to have a very firm grasp about what he was doing before he ever made his first claims. The themes of the Book of Mormon meticulously touch on all these themes and more, all pointing to Christ and bringing Joseph out of his backward culture and transforming him into a real restoration prophet, even though he also had personal failings and human tendencies.

[@jmhatutube]

My biggest issue with this and other videos critical of the church is the a/v style of this and other videos. It starts out with images of the SLC temple, the Choir, filtered with an old and worn-out film filter that is darkened. Very reminiscent to the Godmakers and it's dreary opening on the Washington D.C., depressing music and all. They make the movements of Joseph a caricature, like something from South Park. Actually I think when South Park did a spoof on Joseph Smith and the church, their animation movement was better. I also see some Monty Python influences with Jesus coming up through the clouds. I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think Joseph Smith ever said anything about a Mother in Heaven. There is an old hymn by Eliza R. Snow that refers to a Mother in Heaven, but I'm fairly confident there is no first-hand statement by Joseph of any doctrine of a Mother in Heaven. Now we have adopted "Heavenly Parents" which I don't have a problem with, nor do I personally have a problem with a Mother in Heaven. Personally I believe in a Mother in Heaven. But the idea that not only is there a Mother in Heaven, but that there are Mother's in Heaven has never been taught by Joseph, Nor has the specific act necessary to create spirit children been stated or even inferred except by critics. Yet the culture continues to perpetuate some of this non-LDS doctrine. We're not even sure if there is a need to have a spirit body created because in speeches made by Joseph Smith, like the King Follett discourse and the Sermon in the Grove that occurred just weeks before he died, spirits and an intelligence are often used to mean the same thing. There is, has, and will continue to be all kinds of speculation on how per-mortal beings become spirits ready to be born on earth, but it's unlikely we will know until after we have the capacity to understand. Maybe when we are translated/resurrected, or maybe not until after the millennium. What also strikes me odd is that many of these concepts are biblical. They may not be concepts of the Traditional Christian persuasion, but many are biblical. Joseph, early on, was warned through both spiritual and physical (being shocked when trying to grab the plates) that there was only one purpose for the plates. Any straying from that purpose would result in the destruction of both Joseph's life and soul. After being prepared by Moroni for seven years, Joseph understood his charge very well. Why Johnny doesn't realize this, or maybe he does but won't admit it, baffles me. Maybe my mission, due to the veracious anti-Mormon communities, prepared me more fully for these questions. With everything he has criticized so far, much of it is very superficial and can be applied to any religion or scripture. Applying Johnny's method here, what kind of lawless kook could he make Jesus out to be? I've read, listened to, and heard much more than what is being presented here, and like you, David, even with all the nuances, problems, perceived inconsistencies and anything else I still believe. And quite wholeheartedly, I might add. If one listens closely and applies it to the New Testament, there is amazing similarities. Jesus was accused of breaking laws, living outside the norm, being weird, and making claims that were blasphemous. Modern-day critics of the LSD Church and Joseph Smith sound so much like that Pharisees and Sadducees of Christ's day, it's difficult not to draw the parallel. Maybe that's why most LDS turn to non-belief and atheism rather than to other religions; because the other religions make even less sense, therefore cancel out an option. Facts are relative to individual interpretation. Very few interpret the same facts the same way. If this were true there would be no political, environmental, religious, gaming platform, etc, etc, divisions. Since we know this isn't true then we know that facts are understood differently. I personally have spent over 30 years being necessarily logical because I have to know how to talk to computers being a computer programmer. While I try not to get insulted when people tell me they know the facts and that's why they can't continue to be a member, I'm like "Wait! I still believe! Are you calling me ignorant or stupid because you think you know or understand the facts better than I do?" I try to give everyone leeway based on individual and human shortcomings. The same should be given to early church leaders and other members. Also, it should be given to those who decide to leave or become less active. My only issue with individuals like Johnny is that can't leave the church alone after they decide it's not for them. I have a lot of family, and a child or two who have left the church. As much as I want them to come back, it's not up to me. But I am glad they respect us enough to shove their ideas in our face. This also makes me wonder why so many Like Johnny feel the need to preach the anti-gospel and demean people while doing it. David, great job on the video. I'm not sure I would be as patient. I'm old enough to start seeing this garbage being recycled on younger people and it gets tiring. But I did have a faith crisis on my mission that caused me to search and study much harder than I was. It also made me pray and fast much more diligently. I still think it takes work because if your not going forward, you are going backwards. I see that in my family and with some of my children. I love Saints Unscripted. So grateful you are here. Keep up the good work and sorry this was so long.

[@trevino842]

How come Joseph Smith is not mentioned in the Bible? How can u believe a man over the word of God?

[@MichaelOfHerndon]

There are many Biblical references to restoration of the Gospel. On the other hand, one of the most significant event in Christian history, is the Reformation and the rise of Protestantism. Yet, I have never heard anyone reference Biblical scriptures to this event.

[@UVJ_Scott]

It’s one thing to leave the Church, it’s another to try to get others to join you. Harris’s position is similar to a guy named Korihor: “Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God.”

[@racealexander1660]

The funny and sad thing is all modern day defectors are described to a T in the BOM. Whether it's korihor or sherem or the amlicites or the great and spacious building...it's all there, and yet they use the exact same arguments to justify their rebellion against God.

[@UVJ_Scott]

“… for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.”

[@annem.478]

Joseph Smith was not, never, ever a profit.

[@livingtruth2374]

Understanding how these guys operate who preach and teach against the faith online is key. If you can get this, no one, no matter how "intellectual" or "reasoned" or "objective" will be able to lead you astray. (And the more education we have, the better.) The first red flag on Johnny Harris is the name he uses to describe Christ's modern church - in the very title of his video: "Mormon" Church. No, it's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And he likely knows that the restored Church of Jesus Christ does not identify by that old, tired nickname that obscures who we are - as well as Christ and His Church. Is this the Church of Jesus Christ or is it not? That is the central question they do not want to directly answer - instead, they go in the side door of your mind in their effort to position things. So in the first place they try to go after the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, with the usual drumbeat list of attack points. There's not one original thing in Harris's video. It is not just a "personal essay." He's out here trying to persuade, or he wouldn't be here. Let's not ignore the obvious. And let us not fall for the idea that "objective" reasoning is the best approach to determining truth. Common-sense reasoning, yes. But who is the arbiter of what is "objective" and what is not? As for common sense, it tells me that God and Christ exist, that we are not alone in the universe. The idea that we are temporary organisms that just spring up and live and die and are never heard of again is absurd. Having established that God must exist, then what is the role of Christ, is He God's Son? Is He the Christ? And from there, would they leave us as individuals alone in this hyper-confused modern world? And if Christ's church existed in the meridian of time, is it also on the earth today? Now there's reasoning...

[@phadrus]

Well said. This is clearly a hit piece like any other piece of modern anti-Christian propaganda.

[@kelleynrothaermel2311]

Let us not forget that with such a title, he gets thousands of viewers. These thousands of viewers lead to the lining of he pockets. Huge motivation for producing such a video.

[@GregFessia]

This guy is more of a profit seeker than a prophet seeker.

[@deboraholsen2504]

If I were this guy who produced this video, I’d be ashamed to meet God and Jesus one day. It’s bad enough to leave the Lord’s Church, and it’s worse to persecute it in one’s mind, but to spread these lies across the internet for all to see, young and old alike, is chilling to think about for me!!!!!! My daughter, who had formerly desired to serve a mission, but never did because of circumstances, left the Church a few years ago, and also denies both God’s and the Savior’s existence. It broke my heart when she first told me four years ago!! I can only imagine the agony that this young man’s parents suffer! His persecution of the Church on the internet must feel like a never-ending cancer to them!! 😢💔

[@tykempton8562]

@@deboraholsen2504 I hope you were kinder to your daughter when she told you this than you are to Mr. Harris. I spend all day every day living with the pain that I hurt my children so much as they were growing up. We raised them in the church and they all have and are working through the pain we caused them by using shame as a way to correct behaviors. I am only speaking for myself in this and it is not directed at the mormon church. I know that is the wrong term but I was raised mormon and my children were raised mormon. I was raised with shame as a tool to keep me in line and I continued that abusive method when raising my children. So sad for me to have to look back at what I put them through. Since leaving full and active membership in the church and just using the example of Christ rather than the teachings of men I have been able to see what is so wrong about that method. It is so freeing to realize that the only real commandment is to love God and to love our neighbors and to really study what Christ actually taught without the lens of mormon teachings to blur the view. Good luck with navigating the path as a parent as it is a tough job and I regret so many mistakes I made with our children.

[@Olmec]

Thank you for taking the time to do this. It’s always needed in this online world of information.

[@dwRS1]

I'm going to write a book on what Johnny Harris really believes.

[@jacobbuzan374]

Well put 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@deboraholsen2504]

I just hope he’s not related to Martin!

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

No one would buy it from you

[@lemani2024]

😂😂😂

[@jacobbuzan374]

@@Compulsive-Elk7103 that's kinda the point

[@JayyCoall_]

I think all religions are insane. Some more than others. I think Mormon is kinda wild to believe in knowing the history but long as yall are not forcing laws/beliefs on everyone. Or hurting others believe whatever makes you happy.