Responses to Objections about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (Calvary Chapel Tucson)

[@honestarizona4301]

Response to the responses, YES he's coming, but NOT until the trumpet blast! Here is the PROBLEM with the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE story..............now really think about this, I mean really think it through ok?..........Being ready for ESCAPE is hugely different than being PREPARED for tribulation. Wouldn’t you agree? Seriously, stop and think about this and consider the "what if" I'M wrong on timing. WHY are there approximately 1100 verses old testament and 1300 verses new testament talking about Christs return, (as ONE EVENT not two) AND there is NOT ONE one mention of an early escape to a party for the last generation to join the body of Christ, getting a free pass on tribulation. Not one teaching by Prophet or Apostle on ESCAPE. NOT ONE verse in the Bible confirming an early rapture! NOT ONE! You can argue all day long that the "lights will never go out" meaning you get a free pass, you get to escape all the suffering, the great tribulation and trials ahead and when you realize this is WRONG, not true, you're going to be in the DARK, confused, angry, feeling lied too, mislead, betrayed, unsure what to do next, feeling lost, very LOST! Time will prove God true and the pretrib party a lie and you need to be prepared. YOU SEE HOW FAST THE WORLD IS CHANING. And when you are running scared, in hiding, hungry and the bad guys catch you and give you the choice between watching your family be beaten, abused, tortured and killed OR DENYING CHRIST to live and save them, what are you going to do? Don't be so foolish to think this will never happen in America. Jesus says we will be HATED by ALL nations, not some or many, ALL, (get in your Bible, yourself, please). The RAPTURE happens AFTER THINGS GO BAD, not before (Matthew 24:3-31 / Mark 13:5-27 / Luke 21:8-3 / 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 / 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 /2 Thessalonians 2:1-11) READ THEM! It won't take you long. Read them now please, this is important. And NOTICE I did not give you cherry picked verses with my opinion! Each conversation is complete. And I can give you tons more, consistently the same, (one event not two). Don't be in the dark or trust what has been told to you. You're smart, you can read, you're not lazy, this is important. Hugs. The PREtribulation rapture is a fantasy story that became popular with John Darby in 1830, (google it). All other Christians in history have gone through testing and tribulation. Never has there been an escape and Jesus didn't plant a mystery event, about the last generation being treated any differently than any other Christian in time, get real! Stop sitting around with your bags packed, checked out, waiting to ESCAPE and get prepared to answer that question, (torture/denial). GET IN YOUR BIBLE, don't listen to others, you can read it yourself. Jesus himself warns us of great deceptions so good even the elect can be fooled. Don't be that person because you never slowed down and read your Bible beyond a few verses, read it for real. Start with Matthew 24 and listen to Jesus. He talks clearly and you don't need someone to explain it to you. Put on your armor of God, get into his Word and realize there is no party pickup. And before you get mad at me and argue timing, you can keep your delusion, just don't sell it to others, please. And get PREPARED! Said with Love, Honest.

[@RobertFurrow]

I appreciate your passion, and understand that I am well aware of the content of the passages you cite. I simply disagree with your interpretation and understanding of prophecy. My concern is with your view that those who believe in a pre-tribulational rapture are somehow delusional. Likewise, there is no reason to think that those who hold my view are not prepared. In fact, the urging is to live for Christ daily, with the understanding that he may return at any moment for his church.

[@laurensquires6324]

AMEN brother!!!!!! It seems so obvious when you read it all!!

[@mitch511]

All of the evidence says you are correct.

[@michaelwallace2927]

The saints who died in the tribulation will reign the 1000 year millennial then Those that remain will be called up

[@250miles2]

It seems weird to have "Said with Love, Honest" in the same paragraph as, "You can keep your delusion, just don't sell it to others, please." Just wanted to point that out... With all that said, I think there are several major flaws with the post-Trib view that, even now, I still haven't heard fully rebutted - one of them being, the impossibility of the Gog/Magog war. If all Scripture must be fulfilled, then the Gog/Magog war of Rev. 20 must happen. And yet, if you hold to the post-Trib view, and you believe that the Rapture happens right before the Millennium Kingdom entrance, then there's no opportunity for a war because 1.) everyone entering the Kingdom would have been a believer in Christ that's eternally sealed (1st Thess. 4:17) and 2.) everyone entering the Kingdom would have been a spiritual being and unable to procreate (Matt. 22:28-30). If you hold to the post-Trib view, then there's no one for Satan to deceive - thus the Gog/Magog prophecy an impossibility.

[@jayjay-bz3rr]

“We shall be caught up “ 1st Thessalonians 4:17 “They shall not escape” 1st Thessalonians 5:3 We/they

[@RobertFurrow]

Right!

[@jamescole3152]

Escape what? The wrath of God. The tribulation is not the wrath of God. Like we have told you guys thousands of times. It is the wrath of Satan against the church.

[@jayjay-bz3rr]

@PlowsharesintoSwords I shall be caught up. You shall not escape

[@jayjay-bz3rr]

@@jamescole3152 Might I remind you that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. Matthew 16:18

[@jayjay-bz3rr]

@PlowsharesintoSwords Lol

[@divac7777]

I dont understand your objection #1. The bible says "the Day of the Lord AND our gathering to him". The "gathering to him" is the "rapture". And then it says those 2 things won't happen until the man of sin is revealed, which happens halfway through the final 7 years. For objection 2: I hope you apply the same logic to the argument that pre-tribbers use about the word "church" not appearing in certain parts of Revelation. (even though the church is there. i.e The saints are beheaded during the tribulation for not taking the mark of the beast)

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Divac777, The saints beheaded are the people of Israel who have now received the messiah and tribulation saints who were saved after the rapture of the church.

[@crimson_star1341]

these are the saints that convert and repent during the tribulation period.

[@c.m.7037]

Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably. The 1st 3 1/2 he shows himself as good keeping the covenant with Israel and then breaking the covenant mid trib. SO then that would indicate to me, that the church will be able to identify him pre-rapture and before the signing of the 7 year peace deal, we are gone. Just my theory.

[@losgoodmusicmandrell8371]

Don’t rewrite the Scriptures, they say the Day of the Lord ( which means His coming & His gathering of the Saints will take place before the man of sin be revealed. I know the Pre Trib is hard to accept but it’s the truth.,,,,,

[@divac7777]

@@losgoodmusicmandrell8371 What? The verse says the exact opposite. It says that day wont happen until the man of sin is revealed, which is midway through the final 7 years

[@nickpapalazarou4874]

What about In John where Jesus prays to the Father "...I don't pray for You to TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD butto keep them from the evione"? Many opponents say this shows Jesus doesn't want His followers "raptured". What do you say?

[@RobertFurrow]

In John chapters 13-17, Jesus is first preparing his disciples then praying for his disciples to be his witnesses on the earth. Likewise, we ought to pray for the Lord to strengthen us through trials we may face. There is a difference, however, between standing strong against the influence of evil and the Great Tribulation, which is a time of divine judgment on the earth. In response to opponents who say that Jesus doesn't want his followers to be "raptured", the question is whether or not the Bible teaches the rapture of the church. I believe it clearly teaches the rapture (1 Thess. 4), and my understanding of Scripture is that the rapture of the church will occur prior to the Great Tribulation. The phrase "caught up" in 1 These. 4 has been translated from Greek to Latin as "rapio" and the English transliteration of "rapio" is our word "rapture."

[@hopetobe]

@@RobertFurrow If I say Jesus is A way to be save, that would mean that there could be another way to be saved. But if I say Jesus is THE WAY to be saved that would mean there isn't another way . So I guess what I'm asking is do you believe Jesus is A way or The way ? Now does the bible say there is A coming or does it say The coming ? 1 Thessalonians 4:15 says. For this we say unto you , by the word of the of the Lord, that we we which are alive and remain unto THE coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep . Now the subject here is the coming of the Lord, then Paul goes on to tell what will happen at the coming of the Lord , which are, the Lord descends with a shout , with voice of archangel, which is the Trump of God, after this the dead in Christ rise from the dead, then alive believers are caught up in the clouds with the dead, then the dead and the one's remain alive meet the Lord in the air, and shall be with the Lord forever. So we have the dead resurrected, live believers changed , all believers caught up together to meet the Lord . It's like this say this Person we know , we will call him Jim so I tell you Jim is having a birthday party, and he is going to have a barbecue, swimming in his pool, and the taken his guest on a air balloon ride , well a guest shows up and says I came to the barbecue party, another shows up says I came to the swimming party, then another shows up and says I came to the air balloon ride party, now was this Jim's party or one of other 3 things that was happening at Jim's party? Now that's what is happening with people calling THE COMING of the Lord a rapture, caught up is only one of the things that happens at THE COMING.

[@alyssabeale1095]

Since I've been studying this, I've noticed that the post trib rapture believers are the most mean and hateful. In my personal opinion, that shows where their heart is and destroys their argument of post trib

[@RobertFurrow]

I Don't know it that is good evidence agent the post-trip Position, But some holding the position can be mean ;-)

[@stephenryan7698]

I have never come across hateful post trib believers.

[@servantofmessiah1071]

@Alyssa Beale No offense, sister, but that is a very shallow and biased response. There are plenty of loving people on both sides of the arguments (and in fact there are more than 2 views).

[@HerveyShmervy]

I noticed that too! A lot of them are borderline foul mouthed when talking down on pre trib!

[@realdeal5649]

I've heard pretrib preachers say those who don't believe in pretrib and teach otherwise are Satanic!

[@losgoodmusicmandrell8371]

Great job my Brother. Those who deny a Pre Trib Rapture don’t understand that there are different categories of Saints at different times in history. 1) Old Testament Saints 2) Church Saints 3) Martyred Tribulation Saints 4) Living Tribulation Saints when Christ comes. All of these Saints are apart of the first Resurrection

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks, that is so true

[@losgoodmusicmandrell8371]

@@RobertFurrow To add to this Truth 1Cor. 15:23 tells us there is a order of resurrections . Christ being the firstfruit- meaning the very first to resurrect and never die again. Second group is those who are Christ at His Coming ( Rapture) the Church. OT Saints are resurrected at end of the Trubulation period(Dan 12:2)(Isa 26:19) The Martyred Tribulation Saints are resurrected before going into the Millennium Kingdom (Rev 20:6) The Living Saints both Jews & Gentiles will go into the Millennium Kingdom in their Natural bodies and repopulate the earth.(Mat.25:31-34)

[@bronzemv4440]

Prove a divided body in the New Teatament.

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@losgoodmusicmandrell8371 actually the OT saints are in Heaven. Its in the Bible

[@HarpazoReady2022]

Yes, and they also don't understand the purpose of the 7-year Tribulation. They don't realize it's an appointed time for Israel from Daniel 9:24 & 27. That's where we get the length from: 7-years.

[@solarmantint1965]

People want this say that the word rapture is not in the Bible,, well guess what, the word, bible, is nowhere in the Bible

[@daviddanniballe8373]

I’ve studied this and have seen many different viewpoints. The main problem with pre trib is it’s only inferred in roundabout fashion. It’s a stretch and the scriptures don’t overtly support it but they do support post. I worry for the faith of those that fervently believe in pre trib. Either way be prepared. Keep your lamps lit for the master may come at any time. God bless all and either way keep the faith that our lord will return.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks David

[@ofthewaytruthandlight1320]

Deception can only be decerned by the Spirit of Truth( the Holy Spirit). Deception sound so true, and so easy, and so comforting. Deception doesn't even sound like lies at all, and that is why it is called deception. Why do people take the m@rk? It is written that they took it because they were deceived. How? Because the love of the truth was not in them. If you are saved in Christ, then you will not be appointed to the Wrath of God. That is what it means to be saved. However, as Christians in this world, we are going to have *tribulations.* Deception can't reach you as long as you stand on The Rock(Jesus)? Some say this proves that it will be a secret rapture; " A thief in the night." But that is wrong, the return of the Lord, and the gathering together of the saints to Him in the air, is *not* a quiet and secretive event. A thief in the night refers to the unsaved, because they are not looking for Christ. They don't even believe in Him. They are living their sinful lives as usual. So to them His return is unexpected, like a thief in the night. We who are looking for Christ's return, know that when we see all those things, mentioned in Matthew, to know that Salvation(Christ) is near. I believe what Jesus said in Matthew. Do you? Some say the great falling away is speaking of the rapture. They are wrong. The Falling away is falling away from Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and Life.The Holy Spirit is removed from those who allowed Him to be removed. When that happens, Christians fall away from Christ who is the Truth. God the Father, His Word( Christ), and the Holy Spirit are One. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. You cannot be deceived if the Holy Spirit is with you, it will not be possible to deceive the elect. The Restrainer is The Holy Spirit who teaches all truths, convicts, holds back and restrains the full power of evil, and the spirit of lies(satan). The Holy Spirit is God. Only God is more powerful than the devil. If the Holy Spirit is removed you'll have no Holy Spirit protection, you are at the unholy spirits' disposal. Mental illness, and Schizophrenia are on the rise, increase since a certain thing was man-dated; lawlessness abounds, because demonic possessions will increase. You think it's the church that is preventing the evil one to have it's way? No. God is Who restrains and sets boundaries. The Holy Spirit is God. Will you recognize truth, when you hear it? People are getting confused with troubles/great troubles. Tribulation means trouble. Have you ever been mocked, scoffed at, slandered, hated without a cause, betrayed, scorned, or rejected? Those are part of our tribulation walk in Christ, those are part of being persecuted. The world hates Christ, therefore it will hate His children. We are not greater than our Mastor. As true Christians we are often rejected by children of this world. If you are blending in with the world, something is wrong. Christianity is not a popularity walk, it involves picking up our cross, dying to self, enduring tribulations for our faith, even unto death. It is not about being tolerant to the world's demands. It is about what is right, Holy, and pleasing to God. We must obey God, rather than man. Tribulation is not wrath. The tribulation of mankind started in the Garden of Eden with satan's deception, leading to the fall of mankind. The continued persecutions(tribulations) of the Children of God has been happening throughout history. Look how Cain( the unrighteous one), killed his brother, Abel( the righteous one). This persecution(tribulation) will get greater as times get more wicked, as evil is less restrained. Look what happened to Christians during the peak of the Roman Empire; they went through great tribulations; being thrown to lions to be ripped alive and eaten, burnt at the stake, beheaded, thrown into fires, ripped apart alive, nailed to cross, beaten mercilessly, etc. The tribulation is not God’s wrath. It is satan's rule, and he hates God/Christ, and he hates all who follows God/Christ. God is in control. However, the devil has dominion over Earth, through decieving Adam(man) in the Garden of Eden. His dominion ends when Christ sets up His Eternal Kingdom. So, as Christians we all have tribulations( troubles/persecutions) in this world. *There is no secret, private rapture before tribulations. Read Matthew; Christ is telling you what the Day of His coming will be like. For some reason, most people prefer another Gospel, and because they reject the truth, they fall into deception. I know people/ pastors personally who believe in pretribulation rapture, so everything that is happening now cannot be of the beast because they have not been raptured; They are steadfast on rapture first before tribulations; And you know what? They encourage all they know to take the jabs. They have been deceived by another gospel. Wasn't that what satan did in Eden? He preached another gospel to Eve. God told them don't, or you shall surely die. What was the devil's gospel? You shall not surely die, your eyes will be opened, you will be like God, knowing good and evil. *The Lord returns after the tribulation.* Here is what Christ said about His return: *It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* *This is Christ telling you .* *29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. *31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.* You can read the rest on your own. All verses point to the gathering of the saints and the return of Christ as the same day, not separate times. Repent all who have taken the jabs, all jabs. Please!

[@gymguy25]

If you read the Bible, you know God particularly hates it when evil things are done to children. Imagine the following scenario: a child who doesn't mean to worship the Beast is lead by his parents to take the Mark, not kowing any better, he accepts it, or, he means to refuse it but when he finds out he will be beheaded for refusing, he accepts it. Having a hard time imagining that? Same here, that's one of the reasons I believe in a pre-trib rapture.

[@RobertFurrow]

I see that

[@bronzemv4440]

God allows babies to die horrible deaths anyway according to your logic. This is not a good argument.

[@gymguy25]

@@bronzemv4440 Well, if a child dies before the age of accountability, he goes to Heaven, a child who takes the mark of the beast goes to Hell.

[@caroleevandyk5544]

@@gymguy25 Where does one find the age of accountability in scripture please?

[@gymguy25]

@@caroleevandyk5544 The passage that is used to prove this is usually 2 Samuel 12:23 where God said that David's child from and illegal union would die but David says "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me", meaning that David, who knew he was going to Heaven (Psalm 23:6), knew he was going to see his child again or "go to him". I guess the words aren't specifically said but this seems to imply that children who die before a certain age don't go to Hell.

[@flodnahvrivero5069]

He said that Matthew 24:29-31 is not about the Rapture. And when you ask him how did know that the Rapture can happen at any moment? And then he'll take you to Matthew 24:36-42 What a mental gymnastics😂

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Flodnahv. there is also Luke 12: 35-48 very clear, you need to be ready because Jesus could come back at any moment.

[@flodnahvrivero5069]

@@RobertFurrow you used Matthew 24:44 on your other video to prove that rapture can happen at any moment but when we say it's after the tribulation in verse 29 then you'll say it's not about the rapture.😂

[@itsmejeremy7]

@@RobertFurrow we need to be ready because we can die at any moment not because Jesus can come back at any moment, we’re told VERY clearly in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that Jesus can not come back at any moment and there’s a few things that need to happen first. We’re also warned not to be deceived that Jesus comes back before these things. In Matthew 24 Jesus tells us not to be deceived but this is the main thing the church is somehow deceived on…

[@HarpazoReady2022]

Matthew 24 is Jesus talking to his disciples about events during the Tribulation. It's about Israel, not the church or the rapture. When Jesus was instructing the disciples on where to go preach, he told them in Matthew 10:6 NOT to go to the Gentiles, but RATHER go preach to the lost house of Israel. Jesus knew he would reach the Gentiles later through Paul. Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 all match Revelation 6. Nothing in Paul's letters to the Church match Revelation 6. Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined for THY people" Who were Daniel's people? Jews. The church didn't exist then and none of the Old Testament prophets knew God was planning to share himself in the future with those pagan Gentiles. We were a secret kept from them (Colossans 1:26 and Romans 16:25)

[@joygomes8940]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5nGmaykhdqrrpY

[@cathygilmore2790]

The LORD returns one time.The wrath is after the tribulation. I once believed in the rapture too. That's what the main stream churches were teaching. Further research has opened my eyes! When the scripture's say, if they say he is here or there ( paraphrasing ), DO Not go! WHERE do you think satan wants to DECEIVE the most?The seminaries and the pulpits. The WORD! He tried to play that game with Yashua! You don't think he won't play that same game with us? BLESSINGS.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Cathy, blessings!

[@ofthewaytruthandlight1320]

Amen Cathy! Deception can only be decerned by the Spirit of Truth( the Holy Spirit). Deception sound so true, and so easy, and so comforting. Deception doesn't even sound like lies at all, and that is why it is called deception. Why do people take the m@rk? It is written that they took it because they were deceived. How? Because the love of the truth was not in them. If you are saved in Christ, then you will not be appointed to the Wrath of God. That is what it means to be saved. However, as Christians in this world, we are going to have *tribulations.* Deception can't reach you as long as you stand on The Rock(Jesus)? Some say this proves that it will be a secret rapture; " A thief in the night." But that is wrong, the return of the Lord, and the gathering together of the saints to Him in the air, is *not* a quiet and secretive event. A thief in the night refers to the unsaved, because they are not looking for Christ. They don't even believe in Him. They are living their sinful lives as usual. So to them His return is unexpected, like a thief in the night. We who are looking for Christ's return, know that when we see all those things, mentioned in Matthew, to know that Salvation(Christ) is near. I believe what Jesus said in Matthew. Do you? Some say the great falling away is speaking of the rapture. They are wrong. The Falling away is falling away from Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and Life.The Holy Spirit is removed from those who allowed Him to be removed. When that happens, Christians fall away from Christ who is the Truth. God the Father, His Word( Christ), and the Holy Spirit are One. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. You cannot be deceived if the Holy Spirit is with you, it will not be possible to deceive the elect. The Restrainer is The Holy Spirit who teaches all truths, convicts, holds back and restrains the full power of evil, and the spirit of lies(satan). The Holy Spirit is God. Only God is more powerful than the devil. If the Holy Spirit is removed you'll have no Holy Spirit protection, you are at the unholy spirits' disposal. Mental illness, and Schizophrenia are on the rise, increase since a certain thing was man-dated; lawlessness abounds, because demonic possessions will increase. You think it's the church that is preventing the evil one to have it's way? No. God is Who restrains and sets boundaries. The Holy Spirit is God. Will you recognize truth, when you hear it? People are getting confused with troubles/great troubles. Tribulation means trouble. Have you ever been mocked, scoffed at, slandered, hated without a cause, betrayed, scorned, or rejected? Those are part of our tribulation walk in Christ, those are part of being persecuted. The world hates Christ, therefore it will hate His children. We are not greater than our Mastor. As true Christians we are often rejected by children of this world. If you are blending in with the world, something is wrong. Christianity is not a popularity walk, it involves picking up our cross, dying to self, enduring tribulations for our faith, even unto death. It is not about being tolerant to the world's demands. It is about what is right, Holy, and pleasing to God. We must obey God, rather than man. Tribulation is not wrath. The tribulation of mankind started in the Garden of Eden with satan's deception, leading to the fall of mankind. The continued persecutions(tribulations) of the Children of God has been happening throughout history. Look how Cain( the unrighteous one), killed his brother, Abel( the righteous one). This persecution(tribulation) will get greater as times get more wicked, as evil is less restrained. Look what happened to Christians during the peak of the Roman Empire; they went through great tribulations; being thrown to lions to be ripped alive and eaten, burnt at the stake, beheaded, thrown into fires, ripped apart alive, nailed to cross, beaten mercilessly, etc. The tribulation is not God’s wrath. It is satan's rule, and he hates God/Christ, and he hates all who follows God/Christ. God is in control. However, the devil has dominion over Earth, through decieving Adam(man) in the Garden of Eden. His dominion ends when Christ sets up His Eternal Kingdom. So, as Christians we all have tribulations( troubles/persecutions) in this world. *There is no secret, private rapture before tribulations. Read Matthew; Christ is telling you what the Day of His coming will be like. For some reason, most people prefer another Gospel, and because they reject the truth, they fall into deception. I know people/ pastors personally who believe in pretribulation rapture, so everything that is happening now cannot be of the beast because they have not been raptured; They are steadfast on rapture first before tribulations; And you know what? They encourage all they know to take the jabs. They have been deceived by another gospel. Wasn't that what satan did in Eden? He preached another gospel to Eve. God told them don't, or you shall surely die. What was the devil's gospel? You shall not surely die, your eyes will be opened, you will be like God, knowing good and evil. *The Lord returns after the tribulation.* Here is what Christ said about His return: *It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* *This is Christ telling you .* *29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. *31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.* You can read the rest on your own. All verses point to the gathering of the saints and the return of Christ as the same day, not separate times. Repent all who have taken the jabs, all jabs. Please!

[@redeemed3186]

The Galilean wedding example and the parable of the 10 virgins: pay attention! 1)The Father of the groom alerts the groom it's time to receive his bride. 2)The shofar is blown along the way to receiving the bride. 3)Those along the way that heard the shofar were awaiting and looking foward and had full oiled lamps joined the gathering heading towards the bride. 4)The Father, Groom and all those that were prepared arrive at the house of the bride and the crowd lifts the bride in the air as she sits being taken to the Grooms Fathers house in the air ,when the door is shut for 7 days. For 7 days ,the wedding ceremony takes place. No one is allowed to enter or exit for 7 days! The rapture is a Pre-Trib example of the Galilean wedding! We are the bride.. it's all about a wedding! Not escaping!

[@jesok3761]

In interacting with others I often try to remind myself of Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the prophets.

[@RobertFurrow]

Nice

[@justfloat1]

Agreed, so many fight over items like this, the rapture, when no one is promised a tomorrow, meaning, our end time views really are not worth arguing because chances are, our end may be at any time.

[@melodyseverything6999]

When the GT comes and there's no pre-trib rapture, I'm pretty sure all of the post-tribbers are going to help you pre-tribbers get through it so you won't fall away. That is true love for the body of Christ right there.

[@wojo9732]

You kinda mis quoted there. Combined two verses. Love God and love neighbor is all the law and prophets.

[@shermanmace3773]

I'm glad you brought up that point. One of my reason for answering and talking about the rapture on You Tube is I believe that a lot of pretrib believers will give up their faith when they see its not happening the way they were taught. When God gave me my first revelation that the pretrib doctrine was based on scripture verses that do not exist in the entire bible; I wrote my first article and handed it out in my former church. [I moved away] a prominent member and teacher in that church came to me and told me God had showed him the pretrib doctrine was wrong when he was 15 years old.. He was convinced the church fathers had lied to him about this doctrine and he quit church. [Of course God got him back into church] He was and is an excellent bible teacher. I asked him why he didn't tell his class what God showed him. He said, "They don't want to hear about suffering, and won't listen." I said to myself I will never be quiet on what God has shown me. But he was so right. I rarely get someone to listen and have very few who changed their view. A college professor I had said it so correctly. He said, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." In other words, don't confuse me with facts. We must not give up explaining what God has shown us.

[@piopod9083]

hey preacher - be honest, in revelation 4:1 there is no trumpet only a voice speaking like a trumpet

[@RobertFurrow]

Yes, it still dose not mean it's not the point in revelation where we see the rapture.

[@piopod9083]

@@RobertFurrow I just corrected your "mis-reading" of the passage. I think it wasn't done by mistake.

[@lancemedlin5958]

@@RobertFurrow so in thinking of Rev. 4 what is you stand point on Jesus missing and unworthy to open scroll until Rev. 5:5? Is not Rev. 4 a perfect example of things past, like John was told to write? After all, if John went up in 4:1 and this too is when the rapture of the church happened, how can Christ not be worthy to open the scroll and not be in heaven?

[@realdeal5649]

@@RobertFurrow So where in heaven is the church in revelation 4 and 5?

[@piopod9083]

@@realdeal5649 there is no church in heaven in revelation 4 and 5, church in heaven is shown in chapter 7 after 6th seal has been broken

[@bigcountrymountainman9740]

The Rapture was never preached on. Ever in the early church was it taught that Christ was coming before the tribulation. Explain this. The disciples asked Jesus what's the sign of his coming in the end of the world in Matthew 24. Jesus answers and says immediately after the tribulation the sun and the moon will go dark and give up their light in the earth will shake and I will send my angels to the Four Winds of the earth together at my elect. So, the disciples asked Jesus when is he coming and what is the sign. When is he coming? Immediately after the tribulation, what is the sign? The sun and the moon going dark. It's literally that simple. I cannot believe that theologians have been debating this for two thousand years. There is a one-time event that happens when Jesus comes back and it's mentioned 10 times throughout the entire Bible and it's the sun and the moon going dark. When that happens immediately after the tribulation, there's going to be allowed trumpet blown and and Archangels voice from heaven and we will see Jesus coming in the clouds with great glory and he will defeat the world and burn it with a fervent Heat. Don't forget, there's a difference between the wrath of God and the Judgment of God. When God judges and Nation he does it with the people or the land. For instances plagues or diseases. Earthquakes and famines. But when he pours out his wrath on a nation, God himself kills the people. Just like when God killed those 4 murmuring against him and Moses he killed fifty thousand of them with snakes. That was Wrath. However, when God allows a nation such as Rome or Persia to go into Israel and destroy it and tear the temple down Brick by Brick, what is that called? Judgment. Judgment is what the world does to us, wrath is what God does to the world. The tribulation is the Judgment of the Earth. That is the day of the Lord. The day of Christ is when Jesus comes back and destroys everything and rescues the Believers. Pre-tribulation preachers say that during the tribulation no one can be saved. If that's the case, why does the bible say that those during the tribulation that will be saved are those that take not the mark of the beast and those that come to the knowledge of the truth and those that are beheaded or killed for Christ's sake

[@RobertFurrow]

Sorry big Country, you are just wrong the early church taught all kinds of things, and Jesus returning at any moment to get his Church was one of them. I love how people wrap up what the early church taught like they have studied the thousand of writings of the early church and over 100's of years and then declare what they taught. and is the early church your authority now? Are you going to do only the things the early church taught. This is a christian myth.

[@flyswatter45]

The church is not subject to Gods wrath, but in no way are we spared from Tribulation (that inflicted by man and Satan). Post Trib Pre Wrath makes a lot more sense.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks, why do you think this and what scriptures do you have to support it?

[@ronniemurphy2124]

I think you have a misunderstanding of what the day of the Lord is, my Brother. The day of the Lord is his revealing at his glorious appearance in the clouds. That is why 2Thess 2:1 put his coming first, then our gathering to him, because that is the order of these events as Matthew 24:30 & 31 also imply. This in Matthew 24:30 shows that glorious appearing. Let it be known that this verse is also in compliance with Matthew 24:30. ~~ Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

[@RobertFurrow]

Do you believe God is going to keep his promises to Israel?

[@ronniemurphy2124]

@@RobertFurrow God said he will return to them. Romans 11:27-28 shows this will happen, but not until the rapture. Our differences lie in the timing of this resurrection. The connecting point for me is Matthew 24:29 with Rev 6:12. If these two are the same, then there is no reason to believe in the Jews being saved before the trib is over. The big flaw is believing these 144K are witnessing to the world, but the Bible does not say that at all. They are the ones being witnessed to, by the 2, Rev 11:3. If the Jews were saved before the rapture then they would go in it. That is true on both accounts of pre or post-trib. But you see, Rev 6:12 must happen first, then we see the Jews with Jesus, Rev 7:3, but Rev 6:12 must be after trib, so we must look to see where trib is in the text. That would be Rev 6:5 as the Abomination and the mark as the saints suffer, Rev 6:8, and more toward the end of it, Rev 6:9-11. Rev 6:12-17 is our gathering, as Matthew 24:31 convoys, then as Luke 26:26 describes things coming after these signs which things are the hurting of the earth in Rev 7:1, but are depicted in Rev 8:5-13. With Love, Brother. God Bless.

[@zacharymasters587]

@@ronniemurphy2124 that's right Sir!. Keep on going! We need to save more people, and completely obliterate this False doctrine. Especially in the end of days.

[@ronniemurphy2124]

@@zacharymasters587 Way too many are putting their hopes in a lie because it is easy to believe, but in the end, they will suffer more just because they believed the Bridegroom would come before midnight and even before dusk, Matthew 25:1-13. They will not be ready for the night. They deny Matthew 24 as pertaining to them and say it is for the Jews and they forget about Matthew 25 and accept it for themselves full-heartedly. Do they not know it is the same sermon in both chapters. It's just people taking what they desire and give the rest away because they don't want God's word when it gets hard. The Jews did the same thing. It seems some just don't ever learn.

[@wojo9732]

@@ronniemurphy2124 Wait so if the Lord is on his way down, and we are on our way up at the same time, do we pass him and wave! Good luck down there Jesus, it's pretty messy!

[@Jewel084]

Theres nothing more refreshing than when truth is preached.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks

[@Jewel084]

@Me Funny if its such a lie then why are you here listening to it?

[@servantofmessiah1071]

@@Jewel084 To be fair, I think​ that many people are "tuning in" not because they necessarily believe in it, but because they are learning or even believe otherwise, and want to hear what the opposing argument believes, either to strengthen or perhaps even refute their own belief, if they happen to have missed something (because it is a large debate covering many verses, so you learn something new each time something is presented). I myself used to simply "accept" the pretrib argument as "fact", but then some very good people who I know and respect started to say things like, "I used to believe in pretrib rapture, but no longer." One for example, is a missionary friend of mine -- on the field for 40 years teaching a pre trib rapture, who changed his view. I know another who also held to the pre-trib position for about as long, and changed his position. This should make someone think. How can they do that? They are so learned. They are teachers of the word." Well, the truth of the matter is, it is not as clear as you may think. To be perfectly fair and above board, I think you should be aware that many people who teach a pretrib rapture (such as the man who has put out this video --- my respect to him for his demeanor which seems gentle) -- well, many people like him (and himself included) are in the "unfortunate" (at best) or even potentially "compromising position" (at worst) of being part of a group of churches who will either shun, look down, ostracize you, or even potentially kick you out from being able to teach within their group should you teach anything other than a pre-trib rapture. _"One of Calvary Chapel’s core values is an eager anticipation of Jesus’ soon return for His Church. We look for the rapture! The “Pre-trib rapture” of the Church has been a _*_lynchpin_*_ in Calvary Chapel’s history, and it will also be a key to our destiny."_ (www.calvarychapeldeepsouth.com/core-values-pre-tribulation-rapture/) Thus, the topic at hand is "non-negotiable" in the eyes of the pastor. He would have to give up his entire pastorate should he decide to teach otherwise. This makes it very unlikely that he will ever consider teaching another view -- since the personal cost to him would be so huge! Sarah, I once went to buy a pizza. I asked the owner, which should I buy? The more expensive or the less expensive? He said, "The more expensive. It's better!" I then paid for the more expensive pizza, because the owner said it was "better." After paying, and as he was preparing the pizza in front of me, he said with a loud voice, "It's better ... for me!" True enough. He had just made more money. While I am not imputing bad motives onto the pastor for his teaching, I cannot help but say and warn you, as a concerned brother in the Lord, be careful about embracing these pre-trib rapture teachings without being very diligent to check out the opposing arguments. Please remember the above quote, which basically "corners" the pastor and literally forces him to teach a pre-trib rapture, otherwise, he pretty well has to kiss his pastorate within the Calvary Chapel movement goodbye. "The “Pre-trib rapture” of the Church has been a *lynchpin* in Calvary Chapel’s history, and it will also be a key to our destiny." (www.calvarychapeldeepsouth.com/core-values-pre-tribulation-rapture/) This should make you think that it would be at least wise of you to consider an opposing argument. Here is one opposing argument you may want to consider. I have found it helpful. It is called, "4 Reasons We Don't Believe in a Pretribulation Rapture-Dalton Thomas (MARANATHA GLOBAL BIBLE STUDY)" kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5rJpGehfNGcZsk Have a wonderful day.

[@aquila813apologetics3]

except this isn't it

[@loveinaction2772]

I agree with the Pre Trib and I say thank you Lord for taking your children out of the worst earthy hell to come before the Lord comes back to the Mt. Of Olives and Rules as King of King and Lord of Lords. 🇨🇦🇨🇦

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks and Amen!

[@Itsallawesome]

YES!!!!! FINALLY, SOMEONE SAID IT!!

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks

[@loveispatientkind1]

You had a reference to Romans 3:20 that says something totally different than what you said, I believe it's an honest mistake. And I can't seem to find it other than in Revelation 3.10, is this the scripture you were referencing maybe? I have not been convinced of the pre-tribulation teaching in my 33 years as a Christian though I am certainly not opposed, I simply want to know the the truth for myself. I do believe we need to be ready at all times

[@RobertFurrow]

I will need to listen to It again, I can add a video correction for the right reference thanks for letting me know. I will be adding a video, 7 Foundations of the pre-tribulation rapture that may help. Did you watch the video we have, Why I believe in the Pre-tribulation Rapture here is the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJ7Lgp6hadx1gJI Thanks. Ok, I listened to it and I do give the wrong reference I meant Revelation 3:10 not Romans 3:20 lol, like I said I can make a video correction thanks for the catch!

[@loveispatientkind1]

@@RobertFurrow Thank you kindly for your quick response. I will watch the video link you shared with me and look forward to the 7 Foundations video you will be adding. Thank you again and God bless you and your family

[@biellaspointofview2054]

@@RobertFurrow you can always add a note on the video for anything that needs corrected. It's somewhere in the video settings. That way you don't have to do a re-upload.

[@farmgirlrebel1333]

I am one that has been questioning the pre-trib rapture doctrine. I'm just not sure any longer. I'm okay with this weird questioning, I'll still seek answers, regardless if it is pre trib or 7th Trumpet. Pre Trib or Post, my mission remains the same, to spread the word and love of Christ until I'm called home, whether that is by death or rapture. I'm sorry that you were targeted by angry people, I find pursuing truth in Christ should be an uplifting endeavor, if it isn't one should check themselves against the message of Christ.

[@RobertFurrow]

Your attitude is very godly. Oh that we all would just have the heart to love others, proclaim Jesus' salvation, and stay vigilant with our lamps filled with oil and waiting for the return of our King!

[@genebaker6964]

You are wise to be questioning the Pre Trib rapture. The video link below shows many problems with the Pre Trib belief and the correct biblical viewpoint from a PreMil prospective. Kinda long at 2hr 15 min but easily viewed in 7 chucks as you’ll see. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqi7oICEpbSbpdU&feature=emb_logo

[@EBB505]

I attend a church where the core belief is the pre trib but it never quite made sense to me from when I was a new Christian in terms of the timeline in scripture, I have studied this now and I know that it will not be a pre tribulation rapture based on my study of Matthew 24 and Revelations, I have found no scripture that explicitly says there will be a secret rapture prior to the return of our Lord. I have found after studying despite much preaching on pre trib, that Jesus only speaks of His second coming and returning for His church as one event, scripture clearly states we will meet Him in the air when this happens. I have not found anywhere that says otherwise apart from interpretations that seem to be forced to fit the "left behind" doctrine. The problem however, is my church sees the belief in a post tribulation rapture as false doctrine and if you are found to discuss this with others then you could be asked to leave. I've been part of the church for nearly 20 yrs and I love my church but I always wondered what the objections are on the pre trib rapture. It's a shame my church it's not open to discussing the different views. They always show left behind films to new believers but if you start think otherwise you are not allowed to discuss it.

[@quantv8708]

@@EBB505 Read 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 . “I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY”

[@EBB505]

@@quantv8708 I have read this scripture many times and I believe this will happen, as I do believe the church will be raptured at the return of Jesus. However, I don't see evidence of how this is a different event (a secret rapture) from the Second coming of Jesus. 1 Thess 4 v13-18 is a parallel to this scripture but also speaks of the resurrection of the dead in Christ which is also mentioned in Revelation 20 v 4-6. The saints are resurrected at this "first resurrection" and there is no other resurrection for saints after this. It also coincides with the saints reigning with Jesus for a 1000 years after this. My question is, if the church is removed before tribulation and the dead in Christ are also resurrected at that moment. Who are those resurrected in the first resurrection in Rev 20 and why is it called the first resurrection as it also is before the millenial reign. If you believe it is those martyred in the tribulation then why it is not the second resurrection. As Rev 20 shows the dead in Christ are raised before the 1000 years and the rest of the dead are not raised until the Day of Judgement. If you can show me a scripture that specifically shows a rapture of the church is a different event to the first resurrection described in Revelation 20, I will look into it. Otherwise I cannot see how the church is not the saints mentioned throughout Revelation as the term tribulation saints is not actually in the Bible.

[@ivangodin1850]

Another great proof for pre-trib doctrine: 1- Preaching the gospel is the Church's duty. 2- preaching of the 2 witnesses assumes Church is no longer here 3- their ministry lasts 1260 days 4- they are killed at the midpoint 5- 1260 days before the midpoint is when they begin, at the start of the 7 years. 6- Church is therefore removed before the 7 years begin

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks

[@ivangodin1850]

@@unibokk What else do you think they were preaching? Grandma's apple pie recipe!? Get real, man. What I wrote is backed by Scripture and common sense

[@ivangodin1850]

@@unibokk Very well. Then tell me, backed with your understanding of Scriptures, what the 2 witnesses are preaching. It seems to be very disturbing for the Antichrist to finally kill them and the world rejoicing.

[@ivangodin1850]

@@unibokk Then, I suppose you must be right .. But I have a favor to ask. I have 2 dogs and feel really bad about leaving them to go through the tribulation unattended. So, when it does begin, could you take care of them and I'd pick them up in 7 years? Thanks buddy!

[@ivangodin1850]

@@unibokk 70 weeks have been determined upon your people (Israel). Not 69.5

[@bigcountrymountainman9740]

I've not found one single pre-tribulation teacher or Pastor that can answer this question. How do you explain the sun in the moon going dark coinciding with Jesus Christ coming back and taking the church after the tribulation? In Matthew 24 the disciples asked Jesus what is the sign of his coming in the end of the world. Jesus is do not let anyone deceive you and then he tells them some things that's going to happen during the tribulation and then he says about his coming to gather up the elect he says.... Immediately after the tribulation, the sun and the moon will go dark and give up their light and the Earth will shake and I will send my angels to the Four Winds of the Earth to gather up my elect. It's spoken about in Isaiah is Ezekiel Joel speaks on it very good. There's an event that happens in the Bible that is called the sun and the moon going dark. Every single time it's spoken of it talks about the coming of Christ. So, the disciples asked Jesus what is the sign of your coming and the end of the world. When: immediately after the tribulation What's the sign: the sun and the moon going dark Read The Book of Joel.

[@stephenryan7698]

They say the day of the Lord and his wrath is the Tribulation period but quite rightly it starts when the Sun, Moon the and the stars do not give their light, the stars will appear to fall from Heaven. This scenario is in many books of the Bible and is always when the Wrath of God begins. GOD BLESS.

[@buffalo4172]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. these versus talk about the same thing. ill continue Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Seal 6 is the Rapture of the church, Jew and Greek it doesn't matter we are all under the new Covenant Faith not works. what is the next verse in Rev 6? 17 and it says: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Wrath to come........ 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. The church doesn't go thru God Wrath, but the Church will go thru the tribulation. the falling away is the church, some say it society but that's not true how can one fall away that was never standing for the truth. people say Noah and Lot are examples of a pre-trib rapture and use them as an anchor for an argument, when in reality Noah and Lot where saved from Gods WRATH just as we will bi in 1Th 5:9 the 7th seal opens the scroll and begins Gods judgement on the unbelieving,

[@buffalo4172]

I believe that I know what the last trump is from verse. 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. after the trump is sounded we will be raptured up, but it is at the 6th seal. this gets a little complicated but you'll see how it makes sense. follow along here. god works in 7`s right 7 churches 70 weeks of years and so on. remember that i mentioned 7 churches. lets look at this verse first. Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. next look at this verse. this follows Mathew 24: 29-30 which happens right before the rapture, then verse Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. what the verse says is he shall send his ( ANGELS ) plural more than one. follow the sequence. i will put these in order as i see them. and remember that there will be 7 angels. Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel 1st fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, 2nd saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, notice the chapter we are in, this relates to the rapture and notice we are at the 3rd angel 4 more to come!!! this verse even calls him the 3rd angel 14:9 the you see Jesus come down with more angles Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. Rev 14:15 And (another angel) 4th came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. Rev 14:17 And another angel 5th came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. Rev 14:18 And another angel 6th came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. each angel i believe will come with there own trumpet call. so when you see this last angel read the verse carefully and you`ll see how this plays out in my opinion as i see it in the bible this is scriptural you can see I'm using versus right out of the bible I'm not adding in my thoughts. this verse comes out of Chapter 10 of Revelation, I believe that chapter 10 is all about the rapture in detail....... go and read the entire chapter but this verse in particular. Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. he is the 7th angel he will be the last trump. 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound. there are 7 mystery's in the bible 1 being the rapture. Rev 10:7 talks about the little book? the little book is the book of life, it little because so few find it. Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. I believe that the rapture will be seen by ALL Believers will know Jesus has come Unbelievers will not but believe the lie told to them by the powers that be.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks big country, compare and contrast the two different events or Matthew 24 29-31 and 1 these 4:13-19 and you can easily see they are different events.

[@natalie9022]

Will the believers that don't believe in the pretrb rapture go when it happens? I hope so. Not because I can say I told you so But because I want my born again brothers and sisters to go and escape what's coming.

[@RobertFurrow]

yes really christians will go in the rapture no matter when it happens ;-)

[@justinevans9662]

I say this in love when I say this, The Rapture and Second Coming are the same event it is Immediately After The Tribulation, Mathew 24 vs 29. If they are indeed Separate Events then compare 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 15-18 with Revalation 20 vs 4-6. Both mention a resurrection Revalation says the first Resurrection. If 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 15-18 is describing the Rapture then what is Revalation 20 vs 4-6 describing if it is the Rapture then it suggests a post-trib Rapture since it says those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and who had not received the mark nor worshiped the Beast nor his image take part in the Resurrection. If it describes the Second Coming then we have a problem because the Resurrection it mentions is the First Resurrection which again it suggests those who take part in said Resurrection do so for refusing the Mark and Worshipping the Beast. Any objections is welcome let's discuss further

[@margiechism]

@@justinevans9662 There are a hand full of words for Resurrection and Harpozo is only one...I wish all the words for Resurrection were taught. I noticed that I could not find script for seven years of missing Believers, so I studied Matthew 24, 1&2 Corinthians, and Revelation. I then studied these text and more on Resurrection and found that Resurrection is first. Thank you for sharing.

[@justinevans9662]

@@margiechism In the Bible it talks about an event called the Rapture, I believe the Rapture is a biblical Doctrine, however most believe it is an event separate from the Second Coming of Christ and that it takes place 7 years prior to the Second Coming, but let us see what the Bible actually says about Christ's Coming. John 14:1‭-‬4 NKJV “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” In this passage Jesus promises that after he leaves he will come again and receive his followers to Himself, it also mentions that he will take his followers to be were he is which is heaven. The passage does not say how his followers will meet him nor does it say when. It only suggests that when Christ comes again his followers will be received onto Christ himself and he will take them to be with him in Heaven. I Corinthians 15:51‭-‬54 NKJV Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” This passage describes an interesting event that takes. The Resurrection of the righteous, and the living along with the righteous receiving their glorified bodies. Most believe that this describes a Pre-Tribulation Rapture and that it takes place in the twinkling of an eye, but that is not what the passage says. First off it says "we shall all be changed in a moment" this means the change or receiving of the Glorified bodies is what happens in a moment not the Rapture. Second it takes place at the Last Trumpet, a Pre-Tribulation Rapture would suggest the First Trumpet. I Thessalonians 3:13 NKJV so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints. This passage says that at Jesus' coming he will come with his saints. Most believe that the Saints it refers to is The Church but what they fail to realize is that it is possible that it is referring to the Angels. A simple and carefully look at this passage will give a hint as to who these Saints are that accompany Christ at his coming. First let's look at this portion of this passage "so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father" if the Church were to accompany Christ at his coming the vesre would not say "so that he may establish" but rather 'has established'. The next portion, "at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints", if the Saints it's referring to is the Church then the text would likely say something along the lines of 'with our fellow Saints'. At the end of the day this is just one view, at Christ's coming he will be accompanied by his Saints, let us therefore use scripture to give us more details as to which set of Saints accompany Christ at his coming. 1 Thessalonians 4:16‭-‬17 NKJV For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. This passage most used to support the Rapture whether Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib, does not say when this Event happens but it does give some details as to what will happen when Jesus returns. When Jesus returns he will give a commanding shout comparable to the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God, this shout that Christ gives is certainly commanding as it urges those who have died in Christ to rise from the dead. Those who are alive to witness this event if they are Christ's will be caught up together with those who just rose from the dead and they will all meet Jesus in the air at the same time. So when Jesus returns his followers both dead and alive will meet Jesus in the air. I Thessalonians 5:2‭-‬4 NKJV For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. In this passage it talks about the Day that Jesus returns and compares it to a thief in the night, when the people of the world declare peace and safety then Sudden Destruction comes upon them. Which suggests that when Jesus returns the world will experience a sudden destruction. Will the world survive this destruction and life continue to exist or is it a complete destruction leaving no survivors? II Thessalonians 1:7‭-‬10 NKJV 'and to give you who are troubledl rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.' This passage suggests that when Jesus returns he will come with his Angels and will take vengeance on those who do not know God nor obeyed the Gospel. These individuals will be punished with everlasting destruction, Jesus will also be glorified in his Saints and they will admire him because they held their faith and believed. II Peter 3:10 NKJV But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. This passage compares the Day of Christ's coming to a thief in the night it also suggests that when Christ comes again the heavens with pass away with a great noise, this passage however isn't specific with what that noise is. It also mentions the elements melting the things on the earth and the earth itself burning up, suggesting that the Earth is being destroyed. Let us now piece together the puzzle that is Christ's Coming and see what events will transpire; 1. Jesus will come for his followers and take them to Heaven 2. He will be accompanied by his Angels 3. He will Shout with the Voice of an Arch Angel and with the Trumpet of God this Trumpet will be the Last Trumpet 4. There will be a Resurrection 5. Jesus' followers both dead and alive will meet him in the air 6. The Earth will be destroyed This is just a few pieces which gives us not the full picture but a clear enough picture as to the Events that happen at Christ's Return.

[@dnlcast2]

@@justinevans9662 I have a trumpet in my closet! My neighbor also played the trumpet in grade school. Could there be different trumpets that aren't necessarily related? Paul said at the last trumpet we'll be raised, but you assume he's talking about the trumpet in Revelation. Is it possible that there is simply a trumpet that is blown in heaven to announce the Rapture, that has nothing to do with a different trumpet in Revelation??

[@idaz337]

Pastor Furrow, thank you for your interpretation on the Rapture. My bottom line has been that as a Christian, I hope to be raptured pretribulation, but must be prepared for pre-trib. rapture or no rapture.

[@RobertFurrow]

I think this is a good position. be ready He Could come at any moment, so be Ready

[@ytmember1]

Prepare yourselves.... make your own personal choice at John 3:16-18 God bless!

[@saltandlight316]

This is actually a bad stance to take because there is more evidence in the Bible for a post-tribulation than a pre-tribulation. Therefore, if you ONLY prepare for a pre-tribulation rapture, but it doesn't happen you will lose your faith because God didn't do what you believed He would do. My suggestion is to really study scripture about it and prepare yourself for a post-tribulation rapture and IF God raptures the church before the tribulation than that will be another blessing from God

[@davekpghpa]

@@saltandlight316 Agreed. I would err on the side of caution (post-trib) and also look at this from the motivations of Satan in his final days. He will want to capture as many souls as possible in those last days, and many of those who were convinced of pre-trib, if in fact it winds up being post-trib, will find themselves in a position of a loss of faith, perhaps feeling as though they are not among the elect. That will make for easy pickings for Satan.

[@jesussaves1875]

We are raptured by faith - Hebrews 11

[@soldier4christ270]

I pray Lord Christ Jesus come

[@RobertFurrow]

Amen!

[@kcmorter]

To me, it makes more sense that 1 Thess. 4:17 means because, at His appearing, in the twinkling of an eye, we will take on our glorified bodied which will actually break off of us the "law" of gravity. We will be "caught up" to meet Him in the clouds- then will go with Him to establish His kingdom which will be in literal Jerusalem. Rev 5:10 "and he made us kings and priests to our God and we shall reign on the earth." He will reign from Zion. There, we have a wedding and a feast with Him and will reign with Him for a thousand years. The "rapture" doesn't mean we are catapulted into the heavens to float around on a cloud and play a harp while he leaves others down on earth to hopefully figure it out. It's means we, because of Christ being the firstborn of the resurrection, aren't bound by the flesh and boundaries of this present world. I see it like the song -"She'll Be Coming Around The Mountain When She Comes". The Second verse says "we will all go out to meet her when she comes ". This doesn't mean that we hop in the wagon and ride on with her. We go out and meet her and then we all go into the house. WE WILL MEET HIM IN THE CLOUDS. Jesus is bringing His kingdom here to earth. It's evident even in the Lord's Prayer... "Thy kingdom COME, Thy will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven." I understand we are not appointed to wrath which is many times the argument against mid-post trib eschatology. That is why we will have the "seal of God on their foreheads". Rev. 9:4 Why would God tell Abaddon and his army not to harm those with this seal? Why would we need it if we are not going to be here during the tribulation? We are God's instrument to reap the great harvest in the end of days. Regardless of what everyone believes, pleas know I'm thankful for you and look forward to eternity with you as my brothers and sisters. MARANATHA!

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks

[@samuelcastora8247]

Thank you for this. I'm a pre-trib believer, and I find there's common traits among believers who aren't pre-trib believers. The most common one I notice is that most who reject pre-trib rapture are oftentimes the same ones who reject once, saved always saved. I could be wrong, it just seems the foundation of our salvation really determines how we discern Bible prophecy, and the rest of all our biblical understanding. I believe it's impossible for a sealed saint to take off their seal. Enternal Security is all of God, eternal life is osas. Saved once forever, taken up in the clouds with that shout from heaven, and He comes back with us His saints to the mount of olives.

[@order-sol0414]

Amen, and you are absolutely correct my friend. I have been studying biblical prophecy for years and have look into this subject throughly. Let me tell you people who reject the pre trib, reject the doctrine of eternal security. Also your view of Israel as a nation and as a people in God’s prophetic timeline will determine your viewpoint of biblical prophecy. Biblical prophecy has always centered around Israel as a nation and as a people. Jesus first coming primarily to the nation of Israel then to the gentiles and likewise the end times will also primarily be about Israel and it will definitely affect the entire world.

[@samuelcastora8247]

@@order-sol0414 Thank you brother, we're blessed with eyes to see, and ears to hear. The Holy Ghost our teacher Jesus always with us. LORD bless you, and yes LORD bless Israel, blessed be the name of the LORD.

[@RobertFurrow]

You may be right

[@RobertFurrow]

You may be right

[@laurensquires6324]

If someone got “saved” 5 years ago and since then has stopped living for Christ and has started sinning until the Return of Christ and never repented by judgement day, would they still be saved?

[@jakewhitt5144]

With respect, and love. I think that you have somethings alittle confused. Most people do. However , Revelation ch 20: 4-6 tell us clearly that those who where killed for Christ in the great tribulation in the last 3.5 years are apart of the first Resurrection, which is the rapture. If this as the Bible says is the first Resurrection, that means there was not one before the 7years started.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Jake, There can be several parts to the first Resurrection. I am planing a Hot Topic on Resurrections. :-)

[@steelers8ful]

The dead in Christ that are lifted before the tribulation as well as the tribulation saints mentioned in revelation are all apart of the first resurrection. The 2nd resurrection is the one for non believers which happens after the 1000 millennial reign.

[@canlas30vj]

@@RobertFurrow That in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye will happen AT the last or 7th trumpet. It only means that the Rapture will take place ONCE.

[@jakewhitt5144]

@@steelers8ful Please, so me some biblical proof of this.

[@AriesMarquis]

@@steelers8ful The first resurrection, literally, happens right before the thousand year reign, and after the antichrist is destroyed, which is why the first resurrection includes people that die due to rejecting the beast. "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. (Revelation 20:4-5). 1 Corinthians 15 is NOT focusing on a "rapture", but on the RESURRECTION. The "twinkling of an eye" is talking about the resurrected being changed into an immortal, not people being raptured up. It literally says this. "In the moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the DEAD shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:52). When the dead are raised Christ has come, they will be resurrected immortal, and those that are alive will then be caught up and changed as well. That is a far cry from happening multiple times.

[@helgeevensen856]

i think it is not accurate to say that "the word rapture is not in the Bible"... for what is the Bible, first and foremost? isn't it the original language text Bible? when we say that "the word rapture is not in the Bible", we are giving over the argument to the critics of the rapture... the word "rapture" *is* in the Bible... it is in the original Bible, the original language text Bible... all the translations are simply translations, but we might as well have translated the word "harpazo" as "rapture",... not doing so, is just a translation decision, ... :)

[@RobertFurrow]

Right!

[@DavidWoelkechannel]

I think much confusion is due to the influence of replacement theology. It would help immensely once a Christian understands that God has a two-fold plan 1) His church and 2) Israel. When reading Scripture ask yourself if the verses are addressed to Israel or the Church. God deals with the Church first, and Then He deals with Israel.

[@RobertFurrow]

Amen

[@DavidWoelkechannel]

@@RobertFurrow so many Christians I know ... when they read about JACOB'S trouble, they equate that with the Church

[@hayswhite]

This is so helpful thank you. I have been so confused

[@RobertFurrow]

Glad it was helpful!

[@thelordsdayministry2026]

Rapture explained in 10 minutes at The Lord's Day Ministry.

[@joygomes8940]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5nGmaykhdqrrpY

[@chrisa.9977]

Hello and blessings, I say these things respectfully and appreciate this video. 1st Thessalonians 4: 16 Verse 16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with: 1.) a shout, 2.) with the voice of the archangel, 3.) and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:” -KJV So the verse says the Lord’s descending with 3 things here, and #3 is the trumpet .. “Gods trump” (the trump of God) to be exact. Let’s talk about that. What trumpet ( Greek word for trumpet = salpigx )? It’s the 7th trumpet which is the last trumpet, because Paul told us in 1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:” -KJV The 7th trumpet is the last trump, and the 2nd coming is after the Great Tribulation. We know because the 6th trumpet is the anti-Christ gathering the armies for Armageddon and the two witnesses are already killed and resurrected. The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night. (2 Peter 3:10). What then is the Day of the Lord? Pre-Trib or Post-Trib?

[@senaidacarrasco805]

pre

[@chrisa.9977]

@@senaidacarrasco805 if you’re saying pre then that would mean there’s two appearings of Jesus: 1.) The rapture of the church pre-tribulation, and 2.) at the end of the 7 year tribulation (2nd coming at the mount of olives) Jesus would the rapture those that have given their lives to Him. Because there will be people that time that will receive salvation during that time. So they will need to be raptured/resurrected or whatever you want to call it at that time.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks, I will do a Hot Topic on the Last Trumpet.

[@chrisa.9977]

@@RobertFurrow thank you sir! I see how the last trump could very well represent the Feast of Trumpets, the last trump, well nobody’s knows exactly what day that should be either, but the term last Trump 100% definitely is associated with the rapture of the church. The last trump in feasts of Trumpets could be the fulfillment of the 7th trumpet. But in that same festival, the first trump is the alarm (possibly be representing the onset of the tribulation). You know .. deep down I truly hope we don’t have to go through the tribulation. I pray for a Pre-Tribulation rapture, it’s just hard to see that in the scripture. Anyway, God bless you and thank you for your channel.

[@steelers8ful]

The trumpet mentioned in Thessalonians and Corinthians is NOT the last trumpet judgement. The Bible is clear on this.

[@billobrien4761]

I'll never call anyone who believes in a pretrib rapture names. I used to believe in that doctrine, but it isn't biblical. I am called names on a regular basis by people who believe in though. Believing in the timing of the rapture doesn't determine one's salvation. Believing in Christ does.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Bill, Amen!!!!!

[@5crownsoutreach]

Excellent material, pastor. Great attention to detail, and inductive study of the Scripture leading to sound doctrine. Keep fighting the good fight!

[@RobertFurrow]

Thank you kindly

[@natarrah_7714]

Thank you, pastor. This helped me a lot to understand fully why it is pre-trib. God bless you more",)

[@RobertFurrow]

Wonderful!

[@justinevans9662]

@@RobertFurrowI say this in love when I say this, The Rapture and Second Coming are the same event it is Immediately After The Tribulation, Mathew 24 vs 29. If they are indeed Separate Events then compare 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 15-18 with Revalation 20 vs 4-6. Both mention a resurrection Revalation says the first Resurrection. If 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 15-18 is describing the Rapture then what is Revalation 20 vs 4-6 describing if it is the Rapture then it suggests a post-trib Rapture since it says those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and who had not received the mark nor worshiped the Beast nor his image take part in the Resurrection. If it describes the Second Coming then we have a problem because the Resurrection it mentions is the First Resurrection which again it suggests those who take part in said Resurrection do so for refusing the Mark and Worshipping the Beast. Any objections is welcome let's discuss further

[@donniev8181]

Matthew 24 29-30 KJV

[@donniev8181]

@@justinevans9662 amen

[@J-aiJ-ai]

There’s a lot of back and forth about this topic but this explanation is well detailed and makes a lot of sense. Brothers & Sisters, we could disagree in love. This is not a matter of salvation.

[@RobertFurrow]

Amen!

[@losgoodmusicmandrell8371]

You are correct , this is not a matter of salvation but it is a matter of truth and rightfully dividing the word of GOD

[@losgoodmusicmandrell8371]

@Sonny Bruschetta Same to you , always a pleasure when Saints can decipher the Truth.

[@spiderjump]

if someone who believes in pre trib and is completely unprepared when persecution comes , he or she might deny jesus and lose his or her salvation. so it is potentially a matter of salvation.

[@J-aiJ-ai]

@@spiderjump The Bible does talk about a great falling away so that will definitely happen; The most important thing is to stay grounded in The Lord Jesus Christ no matter what.

[@rockinep]

Thanks this really was comforting to here.

[@RobertFurrow]

You're Welcome

[@LyleCooper]

"There is a falling away that must come first..." Did you notice verses 6 - 8 that tells us there is a force or a power that is currently restraining or holding back this revealing to the proper time, so the man of sin cannot be revealed until first that power restraining is "take out of the way." Some people say, "gone from the midst." Did you then notice that in verse 3b, the man of sin IS REVEALED? This is confirmed because Paul then tells us what the man of sin will do after he has been revealed. The question then is, HOW did he get revealed in verse 3b? Where or when did Paul tell us of the power restraining him being taken out of the way in 3a, or in verse 2? Then in verse 6, Paul wrote, "and now you know who is restraining...." WHAT? HOW do we know, Paul? If we could ask Paul that question, I believe he would answer, "because I just TOLD you, but did it in a way not at first obvious. So somewhere in verse 3 Paul has told us who or what the restraining power is, and when He becomes "out of the way." That is a big order for a half of a verse of scripture! Verse 2 cannot or does not in any way pertain to any power begin taken out of the way. Paul MUST have told us this in verse 3a. SOMEWHERE in Verse 3a is a power holding back the revealing being "taken out of the way." Let's look at a few ancient translations of verse 3, with the added words removed. (It seems EVERY English translation ADDS words Paul did not write. Many people form their theory of this passage on these added words!) 1384 Wycliffe N.T. That no man deceyue you in any maner / for no but departynge aweye (or dissencon) schal come firste & the man of synne schall be schewid [shewed] the sone of perdicioune. 1534 Tyndale N.T. Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for ... excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion 1535 Coverdale Bible Let no man disceaue you by eny meanes. For ..., excepte the departynge come first, and that Man of Synne be opened, even the sonne of perdicion. 1539 Cranmer Great Bible Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for ... excepte there come a departinge fyrst, & that that synfull man be opened, the sonne of perdicion. 1549 Matthew's Bible Let no man deceyue you by any meanes, for..., except there come a departyng first, and that, that sinful man be opened, the sonne of perdicyon 1565 Beza Bible Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [...,] except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the son of perdition. 1575 Geneva Bible Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for..., except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition. I find only one word in this part of a verse that can be something "taken out of the way." That is in the word "departing." What did Paul mean? What or who will "depart." WHO will they depart from? We need only to refer back to Paul's them. AT the gathering, will something "depart?" Certain, the church could be said to depart from the rest of the world population. Therefore, Paul has told us that the rapture must come FIRST before the revealing. Paul has also told us that the church, or rather the Holy Spirit working THROUGH the church, is holding back the revealing. What Paul told them, in short, is that when someone sees the great departing, the rapture of the church, THEN sees the man of sin revealed, they can know without a doubt that the Day of the Lord has started, and they are IN IT. It is kind of funny, but the church won't be here to see it!

[@RobertFurrow]

thanks

[@AliceinJapanaland]

Thank you for your video - I do find a lot of the reasons for pre-tribulation rapture convincing. But this morning as I was reading 1 Corinthians 15, I stumbled on verses 51-52 where Paul says we will be raised and changed at the last trumpet. The last trumpet immediately brings to mind the 7th trumpet of revelations and so I concluded perhaps the rapture occurs mid-tribulation period. Is there another way to interpret that "last trumpet" than the 7th trumpet in revelations? Am I misunderstanding something? If so, I would love to know because I am not committed to any preconceived notion, but rather am earnestly seeking the truth. Thank you

[@RobertFurrow]

Alicein, You could say I'm going to be there on the last day. what last day do you mea? The last day of a trip? the last day of a week? Will there never be anther trumpet after the rapture of the church? Jesus Said Be ready because you don'e know when He is coming Back. Which means he could come back at any moment. I Hope this helps.

[@davidatkin3680]

Its is at the last trump not trumpet like most bible teach.

[@jayrodriguez84]

The last trumpet happens toward the end of the tribulation. The church will be here during the tribulation.

[@vicvaldez6749]

@vic paul say Then WE which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them(the dead in Christ) in the cloud. 1thes. 4:17

[@victorbennett5414]

@@vicvaldez6749 Right. Every believer is raised on the last day.

[@Revelation18-4]

The word Godhead is in the bible. Trinity is not. The trinity comes from the pagan Alexandrian Egyptian belief that their god is three persons. (1. God the Father, 2. God the Son, 3. God the Holy Spirit.) That makes 3 God's. There is only one God and Father of all. We are made in God's image. We have a soul, a body, and a spirit. This is the Godhead in scripture. God is the soul, Jesus is the body, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks for sharing, I certainly don't agree with you.

[@cokefishtail]

The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two. The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows: 1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14). 2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41). 4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). 5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54). Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct? 1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30). 3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation-also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)-God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31). The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks for providing a great outline on the differences between the rapture and second coming. God bless!

[@cokefishtail]

@@RobertFurrow thank it's exhausting tell people the scriptures I get called so many names everyday but it's ok. I'm telling the scriptures...

[@au7-721]

@@cokefishtail Good job .

[@maryscheel8564]

You say 1 Thes is not referring to the 2nd coming and that it is a secret rapture scripture. Read this scripture again and again. It describes Jesus coming openly at his 2nd coming to rapture his saints. It has the rapture ocuring after the 1st resurrection of those who have fallen asleep.

[@cokefishtail]

@@maryscheel8564 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Although the word Rapture does not occur in the English Bible (the Latin Bible uses the verb here from which rapture derives), the idea is expressed in the words “caught up.” The Rapture is the first phase of Christ’s return, involving every Christian alive at the time. These Christians will be caught up to meet Him in the clouds, instantaneously receiving glorified bodies. “Caught up”: After the dead come forth, their spirits, already with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23), are now being joined to resurrected new bodies; the living Christians will be raptured, literally snatched away (John 10:28; Acts 8:39). This passage, along with (John 14:1-3), and (1 Cor. 15:51-52), forms the biblical basis for “the Rapture” of the church. The time for the Rapture cannot be conclusively determined from this passage alone. However, when other texts such as (Rev. 3:10 and John 14:3), are consulted and compared to the texts about Christ’s coming in judgment (Matt. 13:34-50; 24:29-44; Rev. 19:11-21), at the end of a 7 year tribulation, it has to be noted that there is a clear difference between the character of the “Rapture” in that there is no mention of any judgment, while the other texts feature judgment. So then, it is best to understand that the Rapture occurs at a time different from the coming of Christ of Christ in judgment. Thus, the Rapture has been described as pre-tribulational, before the wrath of God unfolded in the judgments of (Rev 6-19). This event includes complete transformation (1 Cor. 15:51-52; Phil. 3:20-21), and union with the Lord Jesus Christ that never ends. All those who have died “in Christ” will be resurrected; those who are alive and saved at the time of the Rapture will be caught up with Christ before the start of the “Seventieth Week of Daniel.” That is, the Great Tribulation. There are many reasons to believe that the Rapture precedes the Tribulation, but fundamentally this view is consistent with a historical-grammatical interpretation of the Scriptures. A close examination of the prophetic Scriptures reveals a distinction between the Rapture (which relates to the church), and the revelation of Christ in power and glory (which relates more to Israel). "We which are alive" is speaking of the Christians alive at the coming of Christ who will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, " "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality." "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

[@MrPCApps]

Noah got in the boat befor the rain. Lot left Sodom befor Sodom was Destroyed.

[@RobertFurrow]

Right!

[@happycook6737]

Thank you for this clear and correct explanation.

[@RobertFurrow]

You are welcome!

[@honestarizona4301]

My dear cook, consider this one. When our Lord died and conquered death, he came back, hung out for 40 days then went home to Father. BAM, this is the start of the end times, 2000 years ago. Think about it, since the beginning of the church there has been tribulation, really bad first 300 years, 1 million hunted, starved, beaten, tortured, killed by gladiators, eaten by lions, burned on crosses, etc. AND over the centuries since then, millions more have died martyrs for Christ, (recently over 1 million in China between 1967-1974 alone) not to mention all that is going on today. THE BIBLE SAYS THIS ABOUT HIS RETURN, one event, not two. (Isaiah 13:6-11 / Joel 3:1-16 / Matthew 24:3-31 / Mark 13:5-27 / Luke 21:8-31 / 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 / 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 / 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11) really stop and read them!!! According to OUR Lord; A. the falling away will began. B. the man of LAWLESSNESS will arrive. C. the sun and moon go dark, (not eclipse) and then, BAM, he's coming back, BUT, we don't know the day or hour, (STOP LISTENING TO ME, and read those verses real quick). They are the words of your God. YOU SEE, not one mention of this extra event/EARLY RAPTURE. Not ONE verse clearly confirming an EARLY rapture. Not ONE teaching by Prophet or Apostle about the last generations to join the church AND ONLY the last generations, get a free pass on suffering, no testing, trial, tribulation, but a free trip to a party instead, (get real). Not one mention of this in the Bible, ONLY BY MAN CAN YOU LEARN THIS BALONEY!!!!!! It's just a carefully crafted story we all wish was true. It's not supported by the Bible. The RAPTURE will come at the 7th Trumpet not before. Like you, I was TAUGHT, the pre-tribulation rapture and never thought to question it. So many well intentioned, good people say the same thing. Then I started reading my Bible myself and that made all the difference. SO, remember what Christ said to us, he said, the evil one is coming NEXT. And that happens when Michael throws Lucy and his gang out of heaven, (Isaiah 14:12/Revelation 12:9/Revelation 12:13) AT FIRST, he will DECIEVE most of the pre-tribulation/EARLY rapture believers, (Matthew 24:24) and about 3.5 years here on earth, he'll turn SUPER nasty, (remember he will be here in the flesh, not just spirit) and start hunting Gods children and killing so many that Jesus said himself said, (Mark 13:20/Matthew 24:22) no flesh would be alive, NONE, nada, zip if he didn't cut that time short! AND when God is ready to deliver his bowls of WRATH, Christ says the angels will protect us and not harm us, (Revelation 9:4). Just like God ALWAYS does, (the Hebrews in Egypt, Daniel in Lions den, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the furnace, Lot in Sodom, Noah and the flood, etc. ALL of them suffering tribulation BUT saved from Gods wrath)! GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. NOW, IS THE TIME TO READ YOUR BIBLE and stop trusting the teachings of man! God loves you and so do I, enough, I would gladly Bible study with you and go through ALL 2400 verses related to Christs return, (email on channel). NO WORDS OF MAN, opinions, understandings, interpretations or alternate doctrines JUST Gods words, cool? And before you argue timing with me, use ONLY your Bible and find me just one verse that confirms your early rapture, just one! No words of man! Your Brother in Christ, Honest.

[@thetruthimpart]

What your false teachings actually teaches. There is more than one body of believers, more than one resurrection of the just, the last trump is not the last trump, the last day is not the last day, the first resurrection is not the first resurrection, the second coming is not the second coming, not everyone will see His coming again, and the living are caught up, before all have died in Christ, in which all this contradicts the Scriptures, with no proof at all.

[@RobertFurrow]

Sorry, I disagree, as stated in the Video.

[@thetruthimpart]

@@RobertFurrow You can disagree all you want but you are still in error and need to repent.

[@thetruthimpart]

@@RobertFurrow There is no pre-trib. in The revelation of Jesus Christ. John gives the description of the Lord Jesus coming in chapter 1 of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to the seven churches, in which Philadelphia is one of those seven, so they are expecting His coming, to be like this and this is a direct parallel, of the same description, Jesus gave in Mat. 24, which is after the tribulation and not before or as pre-trib. falsely says it will happen.) Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and THEN shall ALL the TRIBES of the earth MOURN, and they shall SEE the Son of man COMING in the CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory. Rev 1:4 John TO THE SEVEN churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is TO COME; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; Rev 1:7 Behold, HE COMETH with CLOUDS; and EVERY eye shall SEE HIM, and they also which pierced him: and ALL KINDREDS of the earth shall WAIL, because of him. Even so, Amen.

[@AliceinJapanaland]

It's unfair to say he hasn't given any proof. He's given as much as you have in your response to him - you just interpret the events and passages differently. Be charitable enough to recognize that at least, knowing that even if you believe he is wrong, that he just as equally believes you are wrong.

[@thetruthimpart]

@@AliceinJapanaland He as not given proof but reads his false interpretation into scripture ,which is false teaching called Eisegesis

[@wayneworsham8464]

The "church" is not mentioned between Revlation 4-19. The word church is also NOT in at 6 Epistles: 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John and Jude. So, are these letters not intended for the church? These epistles do not use the word church but do use the word Saints. Elect and Chosen are used in Revelations which pertain to both Jews and Christians. Chosen and Elect are used 55 times in the New Testament, 5 of which are talking about the Jews. Jesus said I have other sheep that don’t belong to this fold, but there must be one flock and one shepherd. Jesus will bring us together in the last. So Jesus uses the term Elect. Which covers both Christians and Jews. The word Church is not used in any of the passages that describe the Rapture. So, saying that the word Church isn’t in Revelations so Believers will not be there is not a good arguement....to me. In Love......W

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Wayne

[@justfloat1]

If you look at the instructions given concerning the harvesting of crops, Isn’t the 1st fruits gathered up, then what is called the main harvest is harvested, but the corners of the field are not to be harvested, instead they are given to the poor, and the stranger. Wouldn’t this be a type of events as to how we will be gathered.once the 1st fruits are harvested and offered, the whole field is acceptable to God. Even though each harvest would have a different function, the whole field winds up being accepted by God. If Jesus is the 1st fruits, along with those he gathered during his time “in the heart of the earth”, then the main harvest would be the gathering of the church, but the corners are left, to be used by the poor, and the stranger. Meaning those that come to christ after the rapture, yet they are accepted by God just as holy as those in the main harvest. Then if you consider there was a wheat harvest, barley harvest, lastly a grape harvest. The grape harvest being when God gathers those to be trampled on in Gods wine press. After all this, those that are still alive, and hold true the testimony of Christ Jesus will be gathered to be with the Lord forever. Could the wheat harvest be the church, then the barley harvest be the tribulation believers gathered that are saved from God’s wrath upon mankind, then the after the Great wine press of the Lord, Jesus gathers all of Israel that recognizes Jesus as their messiah? Am I understanding these things correctly? Thanks for your response…..

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Lome

[@user-xh4lh8ts6q]

The 7th trumpet heralds the fact that the kingdoms of the world are taken out of the control of Satan. With this trumpet comes the 3rd `woe`, which is that Satan is cast to the earth, being full of fury because he knows his time is short. He then persecutes the Jews and the saints for 3.5 years. Also, after the 7th trumpet, the temple in heaven is opened and 7 angels begin to administer the 7 bowls of God`s wrath. The last trumpet is different. It occurs after the Great Tribulation, at which the dead in Christ are raised and join with the living saints in the glorious Rapture

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks, all this is true exsept it does not say "the dead in Christ are raised and Join with the living saints in the glorious Rapture" and it is important we don't place scripture in the wrong place.

[@TheLegendofMclovin]

People always taking about the rapture but clearly forget that 1 Corinthians 15 is talking about the resurrection, not a Rapture. Those who are dead will first get their glorified bodies after resurrection and those who are alive will be changed into their glorified bodies in a twinkling of an eye. The Greek word Harpazo didn't have a rapture doctrine in mind when the author wrote about that passage. Remember who the original audience was in the passage.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Tony, 1 Cor 15 is talking a bout a mystery if it were talking about the resurrection that would not be a mystery. Hope this Helps

[@bronzemv4440]

@@RobertFurrow He tells us what the mystery is that the bodies of the living are a seed body and that those alive will be changed into that body at His coming. Please show that the mystery is a pretrib rapture where Jesus comes twice to earth, does a U-turn, resurrects the dead first, then comes again and resurrects the dead first again and so forth and so on.

[@cal30m1]

I don’t think I ever ran into a pre-trib rapture person who was mean or ugly towards a post trib rapture person. I can say honestly I only have heard horrible things from “some” post trib rapture people against pre-trib rapture people.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks cal30m1

[@bigcountrymountainman9740]

So only the Jews are going to be rescued with a couple of Gentiles at the end of the tribulation? Show me that in Scripture. I don't think you can

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Big country, Yes, for the protection of Israel Rev 12 and for the rest flesh will become rare.

[@yacobdaniel6871]

I don't believe in the pre-trib rapture but I believe in everything else that you believe and I respect you greatly. You are a man of God and I salute you. No one has the right to be mean to you sir. Only if we had more Christians like you the world would have been a better place. Love from India to you.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thank you Yacob, Your very kind

[@jsteele650]

Dear saint, be encouraged! You're missing the best parts. The harvest of the crops is before his return. We are his body, and we will return with our Lord. The Lord does not want you to go down into the bed of tribulation. His bridal remnant will speak to warn the church and the world but will be rejected by all. The Lord warns his saints to let no man take thy crown. Mans doctrines will steal many crowns! The church has the opportunity to not go down into the tribulation period, but their doctrines are going to take them there. They should have had crowns, but now they are holding palm branches. Revelation 3:11 [11]Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Know this....if there is a LAST TRUMP, there is a FIRST TRUMP. If there is a HIGH CALLING, there is a LESSER CALLING. A remnant will be SEATED in the MIDST OF THE THRONE, wearing CROWNS. Other believers will be STANDING BEFORE THE THRONE, holding PALMS. There are 3 companies of believers that will be taken out of here by ranks before the middle of the week of tribulation. I hope you can hear the truth so you can depart with the first call at pretrib. The LORD DOES COME AFTER TRIBULATION, but what you can't see or you have never been taught.... WE COME WITH HIM. The whole church is already in heaven by the middle of tribulation, dear believer! I am going to show you some verses to give you a FULL VIEW, and maybe your eyes can receive spiritual understanding. Let's go! Matthew 24:28-31 [28]For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together. The eagles are the FULL OVERCOMERS that departed into heaven at pretrib. These are the Philadelphian Eagle Saints that were kept out of the hour of temptation. Revelation 3:10 [10]Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. WHERE IS THE CARCASS AND WHO IS THE CARCASS?!?!? The answer is Jesus, and he is seated on his throne in heaven. Revelation 5:6 [6]And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a LAMB AS IT HAD BEEN SLAIN, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. The EAGLE SAINTS ARE FOUND IN THE MIDST OF THE THRONE WITH THEIR BRIDEGROOM, THEY ARE WITH THE LAMB WHO WAS SLAIN. NOW.....Let's talk about when these full overcomers eagle saints were caught up to heaven. The book of John represents the EAGLE. John is representing the full overcomers, the Philadelphia eagle saints. They were CAUGHT UP ALIVE through the open door, directly into the throne room, at pretrib, on the morning of the day of the Lord! Read the verse below, my friend. The FIRST VOICE IS THE FIRST TRUMP! The Lord shouts to John the eagle, "COME UP HERE!" Revelation 4:1-2 [1]After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the FIRST VOICE which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET (((THE FIRST TRUMPET CALL))) talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. [2]And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. OK, as I have proved through scripture that it is there. The eagles are already in the midst of the throne before we get to the next verse. [29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ****In verse 31, his elect are gathered FROM HEAVEN, not the earth.**** Furthermore, the verses used in 2 Thessalonians are scriptures to comfort those believers left behind. I Thessalonians was written to those believers who laid hold of the high and heavenly bridal call.

[@MrDilley777]

As for me it's for the Love of the Truth of the word of God, and the important thing is, is to understand what Christ taught and what He says is important or not. Likewise with Paul in the five chapters of 1 Thess and the 3 chapters of 2 Thess, and of coarse examples and the prophecies in the old Testament, the New Testament, and book of Revelation. It is important for all believers to believe the truth of what scripture teaches and not believe false doctrine because Jesus Christ taught that it is important to know the truth of eschatology and warned of false teachers of eschatology that would mislead many in Matt 24:1-5 and 2 Tim 4:1-8 as Paul also warns of those with itching ears wanting only pleasing things taught to them and that will reject sound biblical doctrine. Paul prompted by the Holy Spirit and concern for the Thessalonians in 2 Thess 2 knew it was important for them to understand that they were not under the wrath of God and did not miss the rapture because they were experiencing severe persecution, tribulation and afflictions and false teachers were telling them they were under the wrath of God. It is our appointed lot to suffer these things (1Thess 3:1-5) because we are followers of Christ. That should be obvious to every believer because it has been happening throughout the old Testament (the assembly) and the new Testament (the church) well recorded in the Bible and books of the persecutions of believers in history. Because we live in America and haven't really experienced biblical persecution as much as the rest of the global church has throughout church history, we're more likely to be unprepared spiritually and physically when biblical persecution comes to America to test the faith of believers here, just as what happened with the church of the Thessalonians 1 and 2 which I encourage all my brothers and sister in the faith to study and understand what and why Paul wrote those letters to them. Read it for yourselves carefully because it is important for all believers and has many parallels of what Christ teaches in Matt 24 and 25. For the Love of the Truth that we and others become saved and fearless in the face of afflictions, tribulations, persecutions and deceptions of Satan and his minion servants here on earth both physically and spiritually!!! ✝✝✝

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Mark

[@truthstillmatters59]

What difference does it make in the end if you believe in pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation or post tribulation? In the end you will either be proven right or wrong when the rapture occurs. It doesn't matter which one you believe is true. What matters is that their will be a rapture of a church in the last days. You will be with Jesus Christ when God decides you will be with Jesus Christ. If he picks up up early before the tribulation then we are lucky indeed that we don't have to go through it. If we have to go through it then we are blessed indeed because we get to live our faith and prove our love to Christ even unto death! Yes, that IS a blessing! Don't worry about when. Worry about whether you are born again and will be included.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Jeff, There is a lot of reasons, one important one is we want to rightly divided the Word of God so we can know the truth that sets us free! I don't want to shrug my shoulders not worry about the truth.

[@ofthewaytruthandlight1320]

It matters because people are being deceived. Deception can only be decerned by the Spirit of Truth( the Holy Spirit). Deception sound so true, and so easy, and so comforting. Deception doesn't even sound like lies at all, and that is why it is called deception. Why do people take the m@rk? It is written that they took it because they were deceived. How? Because the love of the truth was not in them. If you are saved in Christ, then you will not be appointed to the Wrath of God. That is what it means to be saved. However, as Christians in this world, we are going to have *tribulations.* Deception can't reach you as long as you stand on The Rock(Jesus)? Some say this proves that it will be a secret rapture; " A thief in the night." But that is wrong, the return of the Lord, and the gathering together of the saints to Him in the air, is *not* a quiet and secretive event. A thief in the night refers to the unsaved, because they are not looking for Christ. They don't even believe in Him. They are living their sinful lives as usual. So to them His return is unexpected, like a thief in the night. We who are looking for Christ's return, know that when we see all those things, mentioned in Matthew, to know that Salvation(Christ) is near. I believe what Jesus said in Matthew. Do you? Some say the great falling away is speaking of the rapture. They are wrong. The Falling away is falling away from Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and Life.The Holy Spirit is removed from those who allowed Him to be removed. When that happens, Christians fall away from Christ who is the Truth. God the Father, His Word( Christ), and the Holy Spirit are One. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. You cannot be deceived if the Holy Spirit is with you, it will not be possible to deceive the elect. The Restrainer is The Holy Spirit who teaches all truths, convicts, holds back and restrains the full power of evil, and the spirit of lies(satan). The Holy Spirit is God. Only God is more powerful than the devil. If the Holy Spirit is removed you'll have no Holy Spirit protection, you are at the unholy spirits' disposal. Mental illness, and Schizophrenia are on the rise, increase since a certain thing was man-dated; lawlessness abounds, because demonic possessions will increase. You think it's the church that is preventing the evil one to have it's way? No. God is Who restrains and sets boundaries. The Holy Spirit is God. Will you recognize truth, when you hear it? People are getting confused with troubles/great troubles. Tribulation means trouble. Have you ever been mocked, scoffed at, slandered, hated without a cause, betrayed, scorned, or rejected? Those are part of our tribulation walk in Christ, those are part of being persecuted. The world hates Christ, therefore it will hate His children. We are not greater than our Mastor. As true Christians we are often rejected by children of this world. If you are blending in with the world, something is wrong. Christianity is not a popularity walk, it involves picking up our cross, dying to self, enduring tribulations for our faith, even unto death. It is not about being tolerant to the world's demands. It is about what is right, Holy, and pleasing to God. We must obey God, rather than man. Tribulation is not wrath. The tribulation of mankind started in the Garden of Eden with satan's deception, leading to the fall of mankind. The continued persecutions(tribulations) of the Children of God has been happening throughout history. Look how Cain( the unrighteous one), killed his brother, Abel( the righteous one). This persecution(tribulation) will get greater as times get more wicked, as evil is less restrained. Look what happened to Christians during the peak of the Roman Empire; they went through great tribulations; being thrown to lions to be ripped alive and eaten, burnt at the stake, beheaded, thrown into fires, ripped apart alive, nailed to cross, beaten mercilessly, etc. The tribulation is not God’s wrath. It is satan's rule, and he hates God/Christ, and he hates all who follows God/Christ. God is in control. However, the devil has dominion over Earth, through decieving Adam(man) in the Garden of Eden. His dominion ends when Christ sets up His Eternal Kingdom. So, as Christians we all have tribulations( troubles/persecutions) in this world. *There is no secret, private rapture before tribulations. Read Matthew; Christ is telling you what the Day of His coming will be like. For some reason, most people prefer another Gospel, and because they reject the truth, they fall into deception. I know people/ pastors personally who believe in pretribulation rapture, so everything that is happening now cannot be of the beast because they have not been raptured; They are steadfast on rapture first before tribulations; And you know what? They encourage all they know to take the jabs. They have been deceived by another gospel. Wasn't that what satan did in Eden? He preached another gospel to Eve. God told them don't, or you shall surely die. What was the devil's gospel? You shall not surely die, your eyes will be opened, you will be like God, knowing good and evil. *The Lord returns after the tribulation.* Here is what Christ said about His return: *It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* *This is Christ telling you .* *29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. *31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.* You can read the rest on your own. All verses point to the gathering of the saints and the return of Christ as the same day, not separate times. Repent all who have taken the jabs, all jabs. Please!

[@user-ep8cl3zt7n]

Actually, to be clear, APOSTASIA means: "- literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing." (strongs greek) The word means a departure. You could try to argue it means a departure from orthodoxy, but that's not the context. what is the context? And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is TAKEN OUT of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed." This means the "apostasy" in the context is referring to the RAPTURE, a departure. The church right now is STANDING in the way of the enemy's plots, being light and salt. But the Holy Spirit in us will be taken out with us, the bride of Christ then the lawless one will be revealed.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. God bless!

[@stevek8318]

Apostasy simply means walking away from faith. The Holy Spirit does not need a rapture for Him to allow the Antichrist from taking his position. Restraining the Antichrist simply means holding him until the appointed time. Secret rupture is a very dangerous doctrine. The coming of the Lord and the caught up of His elect is going to be very public.

[@Kman.]

@@stevek8318 "Walking away from the faith" is one of several definitions, sure. But like the other individual noted, it's *CONTEXT* that you're overlooking. "Apostasy" = Departure, plain and simple, but it means both a *SPIRITUAL* departure, and also a *PHYSICAL* departure depending on the *CONTEXT* Then too, what would be so _DRAMATIC_ or _UNUSUAL_ or noteworthy to even mention a doctrinal departure...to simply say that people have to "walk away from the faith" in the 1st place? Aren't people doing this all the time? How would this "apostasy" even be measured if folks all along have been leaving the faith? Will there be a mad dash for the *EXIT* sign @ this time in such a *MASSIVE* #, to sit up and say, "Yep..."X" number of people have now apostatized...this must be it!". Paul doesn't address spiritual apostasy in this letter, and the context of this portion of scripture is brought out right away in *Verse 1* where it says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". In o/words, he's speaking to them of just that, "our gathering together unto him", i.e. the rapture.

[@maryelle5682]

The "day of the Lord" does not refer to the rapture but to God's judgment upon the earth!

[@RobertFurrow]

Ok Thanks

[@bronzemv4440]

How many resurrections? How many comings? Jesus comes to the earth for your rapture and does a u-turn? It's not in the scriptures. The rapture is just what happens to living believers on the Day of the Lord/Day of Christ. I mean Paul calls gospel message the gospel of God and the gospel of Christ interchangeably too unless you want to argue there are multiple gospels now too.

[@itsmejeremy7]

Im not too sure how much more clear it could be stated that that Paul is putting the gathering of us together to Jesus and the Day of the Lord as one event. Read 2 Thessalonians 1 it tells us that we will get our rest ON THE DAY that Jesus comes back with flaming fire taking vengeance on those that don’t know Him.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Jeremy, in 2 Thessalonians they are troubled by people already, they were under persecution. Paul tells them they will get rest form current troubles not rest form future troubles.

[@qawii3]

Mathew put it this way: “Mathew 24:29, 30 "AFTER -- the tribulation of those days,"

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks

[@w4tkn]

Thanks for the vid. I go to a Calvary Chapel in Texas, and I have a question - how much does dispensationalism inform your belief in pre-trib rapture? Thanks Brother.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks, Not much, We at Calvary Chapel are not full dispensationalist. only in the broad sense that God Worked with Israel before Christ then they were blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. As it says in the follow passage. Hope this helps! “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭25‬-‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@macc0827]

The gathering together, and the Day of the Lord are both included here and refers to one day.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Byron, The day of the Lord is a broad term that often relies on context.

[@ofthewaytruthandlight1320]

Deception can only be decerned by the Spirit of Truth( the Holy Spirit). Deception sound so true, and so easy, and so comforting. Deception doesn't even sound like lies at all, and that is why it is called deception. Why do people take the m@rk? It is written that they took it because they were deceived. How? Because the love of the truth was not in them. If you are saved in Christ, then you will not be appointed to the Wrath of God. That is what it means to be saved. However, as Christians in this world, we are going to have *tribulations.* Deception can't reach you as long as you stand on The Rock(Jesus)? Some say this proves that it will be a secret rapture; " A thief in the night." But that is wrong, the return of the Lord, and the gathering together of the saints to Him in the air, is *not* a quiet and secretive event. A thief in the night refers to the unsaved, because they are not looking for Christ. They don't even believe in Him. They are living their sinful lives as usual. So to them His return is unexpected, like a thief in the night. We who are looking for Christ's return, know that when we see all those things, mentioned in Matthew, to know that Salvation(Christ) is near. I believe what Jesus said in Matthew. Do you? Some say the great falling away is speaking of the rapture. They are wrong. The Falling away is falling away from Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and Life.The Holy Spirit is removed from those who allowed Him to be removed. When that happens, Christians fall away from Christ who is the Truth. God the Father, His Word( Christ), and the Holy Spirit are One. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. You cannot be deceived if the Holy Spirit is with you, it will not be possible to deceive the elect. The Restrainer is The Holy Spirit who teaches all truths, convicts, holds back and restrains the full power of evil, and the spirit of lies(satan). The Holy Spirit is God. Only God is more powerful than the devil. If the Holy Spirit is removed you'll have no Holy Spirit protection, you are at the unholy spirits' disposal. Mental illness, and Schizophrenia are on the rise, increase since a certain thing was man-dated; lawlessness abounds, because demonic possessions will increase. You think it's the church that is preventing the evil one to have it's way? No. God is Who restrains and sets boundaries. The Holy Spirit is God. Will you recognize truth, when you hear it? People are getting confused with troubles/great troubles. Tribulation means trouble. Have you ever been mocked, scoffed at, slandered, hated without a cause, betrayed, scorned, or rejected? Those are part of our tribulation walk in Christ, those are part of being persecuted. The world hates Christ, therefore it will hate His children. We are not greater than our Mastor. As true Christians we are often rejected by children of this world. If you are blending in with the world, something is wrong. Christianity is not a popularity walk, it involves picking up our cross, dying to self, enduring tribulations for our faith, even unto death. It is not about being tolerant to the world's demands. It is about what is right, Holy, and pleasing to God. We must obey God, rather than man. Tribulation is not wrath. The tribulation of mankind started in the Garden of Eden with satan's deception, leading to the fall of mankind. The continued persecutions(tribulations) of the Children of God has been happening throughout history. Look how Cain( the unrighteous one), killed his brother, Abel( the righteous one). This persecution(tribulation) will get greater as times get more wicked, as evil is less restrained. Look what happened to Christians during the peak of the Roman Empire; they went through great tribulations; being thrown to lions to be ripped alive and eaten, burnt at the stake, beheaded, thrown into fires, ripped apart alive, nailed to cross, beaten mercilessly, etc. The tribulation is not God’s wrath. It is satan's rule, and he hates God/Christ, and he hates all who follows God/Christ. God is in control. However, the devil has dominion over Earth, through decieving Adam(man) in the Garden of Eden. His dominion ends when Christ sets up His Eternal Kingdom. So, as Christians we all have tribulations( troubles/persecutions) in this world. *There is no secret, private rapture before tribulations. Read Matthew; Christ is telling you what the Day of His coming will be like. For some reason, most people prefer another Gospel, and because they reject the truth, they fall into deception. I know people/ pastors personally who believe in pretribulation rapture, so everything that is happening now cannot be of the beast because they have not been raptured; They are steadfast on rapture first before tribulations; And you know what? They encourage all they know to take the jabs. They have been deceived by another gospel. Wasn't that what satan did in Eden? He preached another gospel to Eve. God told them don't, or you shall surely die. What was the devil's gospel? You shall not surely die, your eyes will be opened, you will be like God, knowing good and evil. *The Lord returns after the tribulation.* Here is what Christ said about His return: *It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* *This is Christ telling you .* *29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. *31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.* You can read the rest on your own. All verses point to the gathering of the saints and the return of Christ as the same day, not separate times. Repent all who have taken the jabs, all jabs. Please!

[@sueengholm8504]

Although the tribulation period and the rapture are so very confusing, I believe God is in control. We can only hope and pray that His will will be done and to continue to love one another during these times and pray that those who don't believe will see the light and come to our Savior. Thank you for continuing to help us understand the Word.

[@keepitrealoriginal]

If you read the bible in a literal interpretation and rightly divide the Word the pre trib rapture is the only option. All others you have to interpret it differently. Simple but not simplistic. 👍✌❤

[@RobertFurrow]

You're welcome

[@keepitrealoriginal]

I will refer you to Titus now. Prayers to get the gospel out in these last days. Amen and amen. Look and live.

[@keepitrealoriginal]

I will not engage in useless debates. I will stand against heresy. This is not that. I am more concerned with the gospel reaching the lost. I will not engage anymore. Good day.🙏✌❤

[@keepitrealoriginal]

Sigh...smh. I am sorry you do not understand my position. I should not assume that you understand the pre trib view. I have an illness that I deal with. I can refer you to Robert's archives. Also John Miller, Scott Richards....good day.

[@mariusb7378]

God bless you Pastor

[@RobertFurrow]

Thank you Marius

[@fredchama8744]

i have been a believer for 40years now, and I have always believed in the Pre Tribulation rapture. but now I seem to be sliding away from that, my reasons are.... The coming of Christ in two folds, first for His church and then later for all to see is not supported by the scriptures.... The elect who are mentioned in Mathew 24:31 not being the church, then who are they. As we have been taught, they are tribulation saints, Jews and Gentiles. But Jews and Gentiles who believe in Christ, before His return, are church.... The word, Saints, appears not less than 50 times in the New Testament and refers to the believers who are the church. Why does it have to change only in the Book of Revelation? In 1Cor 15:52 where Paul says that, we will not all sleep but we shall all be changed, he says at exactly when this will happen, He says "at the LAST trumpet". Now, how does the last trumpet sound seven years before the end of the age? The other thing am beginning to see, concerning the Pre Tribulation teaching is that, it rest on conclusions and not on scriptures. It is something like, "because of this, therefore this has to be in this way". And the conclusions have no scripture support. Let's just accept that we are wrong and accept the view that is supported by scriptures.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Fred, Jesus said be ready you don't know when the son of man will return. The Church fathers believed and taught Jesus could return at any moment. 1 Thessalonials 4 says we will be caught up to be with the Lord, and Revelation 3:10 say God will keep you from the hour of testing that will test those who dwell on the earth. you can give up God saving you from the wrath to come but I won't.

[@fredchama8744]

@@RobertFurrowBut you, brethren, are not in darkness, that day should overtake you like a thief. You are all children of light and children of the day. We are not of the night or of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5

[@fredchama8744]

@@RobertFurrow We may not know the day or the hour, but the happenings should help us know that the end is approaching. And you can not insist on church fathers at the expense of examining the scriptures.

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

@@RobertFurrow brother, actually Johns student early church teacher taught the second coming and rapture of the church are the same event while John stood by his side never correcting him.

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

@@fredchama8744 pre trib gives a separate gospel and dismantles Christ blood on the cross and sadly so many dont even see it. we were warned of these days with false teachings.

[@gofish9392]

Paul did not say the rapture will happen in the twinkling of the eye. He said, we will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye.1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Says, Matthew 24:31. This is just 1 of the many scriptures twisted to support a pre-trib rapture myth.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks go fish, taken as literal as you can (Some things are obvious a analogy ) it is easy to see the pre-trib Rapture in the scriptures.

[@gofish9392]

@@RobertFurrow Would you tell me what part of 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Paul was using as an analogy? Or were you using the misquote as an analogy, to prove what?

[@whittakerdanielj]

You should check out the documentary, 7 Pretrib Problems. They did a good job at answering and addressing the Rapture teachings in a good and respectful way.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Daniel

[@whittakerdanielj]

@@RobertFurrow You're welcome.

[@dfwnorthwest]

@Robert Furrow - thank you for taking the time to discuss these things, most pastors will not for fear of starting a mud-slinging contest. I hold no animosity toward anyone and still have friends that thinks the rapture is pre-trib, and as of about 10yrs ago I did too. I grew up hearing the pre-trib view and that Jesus could come back at any moment. After some long studies on this, I came to a different conclusion - that of the rapture occuring somewhere in the middle - before the wrath begins but after the 7yr period has begun, not all of which is God pouring out His wrath. It's often overlooked, but something you pointed out, is that we may agree on much of the same thing, but its the SEQUENCE of events that distinguish these views. However, once the sequence of events are viewed differently, then it leads to a different view toward subjects like Israel, and no I do not hate the Jews in case anyone is reading this. I will give them the Gospel as I would anyone else, if they will listen :)

[@RobertFurrow]

thanks dfwnorthwest, consider the the day of the Lord is a time of Jacobs truble Jeremiah 30:7

[@ENDofREGULATION30]

While I don't believe belief in a pretrib rapture takes a person outside of Christian orthodoxy, I do believe it is a big deal. If we (those who do not believe in it) are correct, you are disarming millions of Christians heading into the greatest time of tribulation ever... that's a big error if you are wrong

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Louis, I do believe the scriptures give the strongest support to a pre-tribulation rapture.

[@ronniemurphy2124]

Wanting to believe the coming of the Lord is imminent doesn't make it real. All scripture points to the resurrection will happen after the power of the antichrist controls God's holy people and city. One of the best examples of this is in Daniel 12:1-2. Here we see the resurrection taking place as the Jews are protected by Michael. We see this is after the described power of the antichrist in chapter 11. Furthermore, this standing up of Michael represents Rev 7:3-8 the sealing of the Jewish remnant, right at the resurrection timing. I proclaim Revelation 6:12-17 is the resurrection, because of the signs given in Rev 6:12. These signs were given in Matthew 24:29 which shows they are after the tribulation. Jesus said these signs are what we look for when he comes to redeem us, Luke 21:25 & Luke 21:28. He also said the things getting ready to happen in Luke 21 should be prayed about that we might not have to go through them, Luke 21:26 & Luke 21:36. These things coming upon the earth are clearly, after the GTP because clearly, Luke 21:25 is after the trib according to Matt. 24:29. And the things coming is in Luke 21:26. God Bless all. Jesus said not to fear, we have nothing to fear.

[@RobertFurrow]

Great advise-don't fear men or the future...just fear God alone and you will find wisdom in your life.

[@ronniemurphy2124]

@@RobertFurrow I believe Michael is that voice in Revelation 7:2-3 and that matches with Daniel 12:1.

[@ronniemurphy2124]

@@RobertFurrow Luke 21:26 is the thief in the night scenario and so is Rev 6:15-17. Matthew 24:30 is the same. It is literally scaring people to death, Luke 21:26. All salvation for faith is removed from the world because once Jesus is seen in all his glory, Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:27, & Rev 6:16-17 then faith is no longer an issue. All the world will know who he is, visually and powerfully as his wrath becomes evident.

[@christopherdavis7069]

You are the Christian Ben Shapiro who doesn't talk about politics I love it

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Christopher

[@user-yv1fh3fc8y]

Another job well done. Thank you🙏

[@RobertFurrow]

Thank you

[@turbotruth8699]

Would be good to see pre tribulation ministers/ ministries speaking directly with post tribulation believers etc instead of people just replying to random comments under videos, alot of videos I see by ministries of opposing beliefs seem to have very valid points but also points that would be great to see directly addressed by those who stand by them..

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Turbo

[@ronniemurphy2124]

We see the trib period in Luke 21:20-24 and then the signs that come after that period in Luke 21:25, according to Matthew 24:29. So how is trib over and we see things going on after that trib period, in Luke 21:26, the things coming? Those things coming are the wrath that follows the trib period. This is the proof you asked for. Trib is not the wrath of God. God bless you and fulfill all your needs.

[@RobertFurrow]

Do you believe in replacement Theology?

[@ronniemurphy2124]

@@RobertFurrow No, we are grafted in but some of the original branches still exist. God will return to Israel but not until the saints are raptured This is in Rev 7:1 & 3. before hurting the earth with God's wrath, Rev 6:17, Rev 8:5-13.

[@jaricarlon9968]

What if a 3 year old copied his/her parents and took the mark of the beast what is the age of accountability woe to those pregnant at this time Mathew 24 ?

[@RobertFurrow]

We will have a video on the age of accountability

[@wjdyr6261]

When the 2 witnesses are called up that's the 1st resurrection or rapture of the dead in Christ 1st then we who are alive and remain. It's not about knowing the day or the hour but the event.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Will

[@anilbahl6132]

Biblical Scripture: Mathew 24:29-31 Jesus comes post tribulation Which Scripture in the Bible supports pre-trib “rapture”? Jesus left heaven to come to earth twice, not 2-1/2 times neither makes a secret visit.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Anil, A comparison of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-19 and Matthew 24:29-31 show they are different events. Here is or video on it kzbin.info/www/bejne/haSlaaKlf7mggrs

[@pamelamason4011]

Thank you for sharing.

[@RobertFurrow]

My pleasure!

[@kingsolomon3175]

I think you’re trying too hard brother. Nobody without trying to force their view on the text could interpret 2 thess 2 that way. It reads plain as day just like Jesus said it being at the end. You say lack of word rapture doesn’t mean no rapture but the lack of the word church means no church. (Yes I believe in a rapture after tribulation though, just showing that even you said that argument was wrong). Even Paul says “last trumpet”. So it wasn’t the last trumpet if there’s another one Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24 then, right? If we don’t precede the dead in Christ, then why are their souls still in heaven? Please reconsider how many people you could be setting up to be seeds sown on rocky soil. Receive word with joy but fall away when faced with persecution.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks King Solomon,, I appreciate you advice, however I am persuaded we are to be ready and wait for the Lord who will return form Heaven. and we are saved form the wrath that is to come.

[@kingsolomon3175]

@@RobertFurrow thanks you for the kind response. As one brother to another I do feel very strongly that when the $@udi pr1nc3 normalizes with Israel which by my calculations should be very close to November 5 this year. We will be in the 70th week. Please reconsider the position if that happens on schedule and we are still here. This is assuming a baptism date of 28AD. If he was baptized 29AD then it will be next fall and I haven’t converted to the Gregorian calendar yet. I know I may sound like a crazy date setter but I can show you the timeline in scripture. We won’t know day and hour of his return but we can know the tribulation start and end. Sorry about the cryptic spelling but they get censored rather quickly if his name is mentioned.

[@Cross75777]

Perhaps we need to think of time differently. Everyone Left here will still be on the earth’s time, as God’s bride, we have entered the realm where time Doesn’t exist. Maybe someone reading this can think of a scenario where both the rapture and the thousand year new millennium happen simultaneously, or something like that.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Mauricio, Interesting Theory

[@seasquawker]

The best verses that explain the timing of the rapture are 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 and Luke 17:29-30. These two passages both include 3 things: 1. Jesus is revealed from heaven 2. A rest for believers or a departure like Lot from Sodom 3. Fire and brimstone rain down from heaven Then another element is that Luke says these things all need to occur on the same day. This is not describing a secret pre-trib rapture, but a very public "every eye will see" one and occurring on the Day of Vengeance. The Day of Vengeance is talked about in Isaiah 34:4-8. And the same signs that are found in Isaiah 34:4-8 are also found in Revelation 6:12-14. Do we see all 3 elements from the passages up above found here? Yes... 1. Jesus revealed from heaven, Revelation 6:16 2. A rest for believers or a departure like Lot out of Sodom, Revelation 7:9-17. 3. Fire and brimstone rain down from heaven, Revelation 8:4-7 And according to Revelation 8:1, only a half an hour separates the 1st Trumpet from the 6th seal. So indeed all these things occur on the same day.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks

[@seasquawker]

@RobertFurrow And I'm pretty sure Isaiah 52:10-15 is describing the rapture. There's the kings of the earth in verse 15 just like Revelation 6:15-16.

[@thelordsdayministry2026]

You believe revelation 20: 4 is the people who believed in Christ during the tribulation. Revelation 20: 5-6 says this is the 1st resurrection. You believe it's the second resurrection. Rapture explained at The Lord's Day Ministry.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks for sharing your view. God bless!

[@michaelwallace2927]

If God lifts his spirit from the Earth who can be saved You have to be drawn by the spirit And why would the book of life have to be pulled out if the The rapture of the saints had already taken place

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Michael, not sure what point you're making.

[@michaelwade5995]

I don't condemn anyone who believes pretrib rapture, because I myself, used to believe it. However, I cannot find a single scripture that clearly supports it. Some scriptures elude to it as you mentioned. But Jesus made it clear that the Church will be in the tribulation throughout the entire chapter of Matthew 24. He was clearly warning the Church of what was to come. Quite a few scriptures clearly supports post trib, including the very words of Jesus in Mattew 24:29-30. Furthermore, it is a fact that pretrib teaching didn't come about until the mid 1800's by John Nelson Darby. Until then, the Church unanimously believed in post trib. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of the Church outside the Western Civilization believe in post trib.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Michael, the Darby story is a christian myth. Many in church history believed Jesus could come back at any moment. and others believed Jesus was coming back for his church before the tribulation.

[@michaelwade5995]

@@RobertFurrow Thanks Robert. I urge you to research the Church's stance outside of the western civilization and you will find that the vast majority believe in post trib. Pre trib was almost unheard of prior to the 1800s. Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney and most Christian leaders of the Second Great Awakening were post trib believers. Actually, the major start of pre trib belief is a much longer historically true story than just Darby. It also included Dave MacPherson and Margaret MacDonald with her vision of a pre trib. Historical writings prove this to be facutal and not a myth.

[@westonsmith]

I have interpreted 2 Thessalonians 2:1 as 2 different events. 1. The coming of our lord Jesus Christ = 2nd coming. - this is laid out for us in verse 3 & 4 2. Our gathering together into him = rapture in verses 6-8 I see Paul describing two different events and that’s why I see people get this scripture confused.

[@RobertFurrow]

Blessings!

[@michaellunet5996]

A pre tribulation rapture contradicts 1 Thessalonians 5

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Michael, please expand on why you think that

[@michaellunet5996]

@@RobertFurrow I don't think that, it's what is written. 1 Thessalonians 5:1 begins with the conjunction word but. The word but is used to introduce a phrase or clause contrasting with what has already been mentioned. In other words what was spoken prior to what is continued spoken. 1 Thessalonians 4 was spoken prior to 1 Thessalonians 5 which was the rapture, and is continued spoken as the day of the Lord 1 Thessalonians 5:2. We see clearly that the rapture is connected to the day of the Lord, and not pre tribulation. Remember Lot and what day he left Sodom? He left Sodom the same day the fire fire. Likewise as it was in the days of Lot even thus (like so) shall it be when the Son of man is revealed. Remember when Noe entered the ark? He entered the selfsame day of the flood. Noe and Lot escaped on the day of the Lord, and not prior to that day. Does not the first resurrection take place before the rapture? Notice who takes part in the first resurrection Rev 20..

[@revelationminister1910]

Hello I am disagreeing about what was said in this video. In regards to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. Paul does say the Son of Perdition must be revealed first. The word "and" is a conjunction word that make the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Day of the Lord; second coming) "and" our gathering together to Him (rapture of the church) are inclusive to each other. The subject of the paragraph is did the rapture occur or not. Paul states why the rapture had not happen yet all In that one paragraph. Paul is assuring the Thessalonians the rapture had not taken place yet. His reason is the falling away (rebellion) must come first AND the Son of Perdition (included with falling away/rebellion) be revealed. Paul never once separated the two in his reason the rapture had not taken place yet. No where in this paragraph or anywhere in the whole scripture does he separate the rapture from the second coming of Jesus Christ (Day of Christ). 1 Corinthians15:50-54 is referring to being changed from corruptible to incorruptible bodies in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. The rapture is occurring when this change happens but this passage does not indicate how long the rapture will take. The only thing this passage is clear about regarding this is our changing from corruptible to incorruptible is as fast as a twinkling of an eye. Matthew 24:4-26 indicates the church is present during what you call the tribulation period (the period of time from when the antichrist is reveled until the second coming). I say this because Jesus is talking to the disciples and refers to them as "you" and "your". The church is represented in Matthew 24:15-26 by those same disciple's legacy in an era we are in now. The church is well established by this time. "You" are the disciples of today. This warning is being told to who Jesus refers to as "you" as a warning for anyone of the church body to flea or hide when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place. The Orthodox Jews or unconverted Jews unless they read the New Testament Bible would not know what Jesus spoke to the disciples because they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. This passage was spoken to four disciples in private. I am not saying this next part to be mean; the church are the believers that would follow this warning once they hear it or read it; again that would be if they aren't taught and adhere to the pretribulation teaching. Then they would probably get caught and be killed. This is the one danger that concerns me about that teaching. Most of the church would be at risk. The whole church should be prepared for the worst scenario possible or you are going to have many fall away from the faith and turning to the mark of the beast to try to survive if the rapture does not occur sooner than the Son of Perdition being revealed. That blood would be on the hands of those who teach it. If this is in fact a pretrib scenario, maybe being prepared to go the extra distance will be greater rewards in heaven when we hear those words "Well done good and faithful servant!" Even if God was just dealing with the Jews during this time doesn't mean the church is not here. The antichrist wages war on the saints during this time. That's why the church is being warned to go into hiding. We can see that in verses 23-26 that the enemy will use any means possible to get the church to come out of hiding. I believe that by following the warning to hide as directed by Jesus He will be sure to provide us provisions. 1 Kings 17 is a great example of this through the story of Elijah. In regards to the Lamb opening the seals, the first four seals I believe were open by the time Jesus visits the temple. The white horse was the colt from the village that Jesus rode into Jerusalem, the red horse is found in Matthew 10:34-36, the black horse is in a market place setting and the pale horse is following Jesus all the way to cross and then defeated. The crown given to the rider of the white horse is the Crown of Thorns that the roman guards pretended to be a royal crown (a stephanos being used like a diadem) when they put it on His head. The bow is found in Habakkuk 3:9 and Zechariah 9:9-14.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Revelation, I stand by what is said in the video

[@YoutubeChannel-vd6xn]

The passage of matthew is mentioned in isaiah 11:10-16 and 27:12-13 when Jesus establishes his millennial kingdom and it clearly tells us that it is talking about the gathering of ISRAEL not the church. It also says that in 27:12-13 they will be gathered in JERUSALEM not in the clouds like the church. What happens is that people don’t study the prophets of the OT so they think it’s taking about the rapture.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks KZbin, I'll look up those passages ;-)

[@YoutubeChannel-vd6xn]

@@RobertFurrow no problem. Zac chapters 12-14 are also talking about the second coming specially in 14:1-6. and how israel will react when they see their true Messiah.

[@honestyalways9001]

I don't understand how Gentiles believe they are grafted into I.srael and part of the blessings but when the tribulation starts now they are separate from I.srael. Pick a side

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Honestly

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

we are not.. we are one, which is what Jesus blood did on the cross, the pre trib teaching dismantles Christs blood and goes directly against the gospel/.

[@adithirai]

Where in the Bible does it say that Matthew 24:31 speaks about Israel and not the believers? The believers are called as 'Elect' everywhere in NT, so there is no evidence to say that Matthew 24 is speaking about the Israelites being gathered. ‭Revelation 4:1 NKJV‬ [1] After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” The verse clearly shows that 'John' and not the 'church' was asked to come up and see what is happening. Therefore even to the blind eyes its not speaking about rapture.

[@RobertFurrow]

I''ll cover this in a future Q&A

[@Kman.]

There's a *HUGE* difference in speaking TO a group, & speaking ABOUT a group. While the whole bible may be FOR us, it's certainly not all ABOUT us. "ELECT" is not a technical word, & does *NOT* refer to the same entity e/time & e/place we find it in scripture. It's found *3x* in the Olivet Discourse, & e/time it speaks of the Jews, NOT the church. I would challenge you to make the case that it's speaking of the church in the text. You're assuming s/thing you've never taken the time to establish...you're begging the question.

[@scottdunn2178]

Pastor Jimmy Evans summed it up; Did Noah get on the Ark before the flood, during the flood, or after the flood? He got on BEFORE. Same with Lot.

[@RobertFurrow]

Nice!

[@dawidbm531]

nice indeed, since the flood was the wrath of God, not some anti-Christ maniac

[@raccoondon488]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 KJV [1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] ➡️ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, “””except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;””” 4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.⬅️

[@RobertFurrow]

Right

[@raccoondon488]

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV [29] ➡️ Immediately after the tribulation ⬅️ of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[@RobertFurrow]

Right

[@lucypevensie6284]

lately i've been falling into a whole mess of youtube videos on this topic by christians who (vehemently at times) argue either side of this--it's either biblically true that it's post, or biblically true that it's pre.... amazing. i personally believe that it's pretrib, but as the intro is stating on this one, Christ is what ultimately only matters. if you have strong/true faith in Christ, it doesnt really matter when the rapture technically is!

[@RobertFurrow]

Great job capturing the heart of the discussion. God bless!

[@au7-721]

I agree.

[@melodyseverything6999]

There is a great falling away before Jesus comes back and a lot of post tribbers think it's at the time when pre-tribbers are expecting to be raptured. When the pre-tribulation rapture doesn't happen, it will challenge the faith of a lot of pre-tribbers. Just make sure you're not one of those that fall away. Learn from the post-tribbers how to keep your faith strong through the tribulation. They will have spiritually prepared for this.

[@itsmejeremy7]

Watch Pastor Joe Schimmel from Good Fight Ministries. He’ll clear it all up real fast :)

[@bride4jesus0126]

So helpful for your kindness and clarity. Wonderful.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thank you

[@loveinaction2772]

Thank you Brother in Christ , praise God He will make away for His children of the church age.

[@RobertFurrow]

Amen

[@chadhardwick2145]

I have one major issue and that is why you are comfortable using a Latin word that is a poor translation of the Greek word "Harpazo" This word does not convey the meaning of the word "Harpazo"

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks chad, What Does it convey and what is your source?

[@gossman75]

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape (all these things that shall come to pass), and to stand before the Son of man. There are more than 1 Rapture. Enoch, Elijah, Daniel and his two friends, Jesus, Church Age Saint, and also a 2nd Coming Rapture for those within the Tribulation Period. There are more than 1 Rapture. Keep that in mind!

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Brandon, I'm missing your point

[@wolfgangk1]

I've noticed a theme throughout many of the the comments of being "ready" and "preparing" for the "rapture." This leads me to ask, "What does that mean." I'm of the belief that IF there is a rapture where Christians mysteriously vanish, that those who disappear will be Christian in deed and NOT in name only as evidenced in the five wise five foolish virgins. There were those who saw the signs of the approach of the bridegroom and fill the lamps (filled with the Holy Spirit, a separate discussion). The rest had to endure the judgement (Noah and the flood). Hence, an interpretation, that will not be popular-not scratching any ears-there WILL BE "Christians" in the Tribulation. Frankly, it makes sense. How many of us can HONESTLY say that we've wholly and holy dedicated our body, soul, and spirit to the LORD. Regardless to "just as I am" preacher would have you think, lukewarm Christianity will be spewed from God. I'm not afraid to say that the majority of the folks obsessed with the end times would not be RAPTURED. You and GOD knows how black your heart is.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Wolfgangk1, we will have to leave the judgment up to God who is the only one who see the heart not even you or me.

[@wolfgangk1]

@@RobertFurrow I'd expect that response from those outside of Christ. God would not that anyone be ignorant as to the state of one's heart. "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts." IF one is seeking God, as we are commanded, then God will reveal the state of their heart and will not have to wait until the day of judgement. I've known what it is to be in the presence of God and it is daunting beyond description. At that moment I knew that excuses would be vain. I'm a licensed mental health professional and an admission that I've frequently hear from my patients but would never be uttered by a professing Christian is, "I don't want to know the truth." However, the Word of God affirms that same attitude--while not confessed--exists amongst most professing Christians; in rejecting the truth, God GAVE THEM OVER to a lie. Most folks reading this will rather believe you--because it scratches their itching ears--but the TRUTH is if you're lukewarm God will spew you out of his mouth, so "Everybody talk'n about heaven ani't going there."

[@Kman.]

@@wolfgangk1 *I Cor **5:21* and _FLOOOOODS_ and *TONS* of o/verses speak to just what salvation is all about & how Christ has "dealt" (past tense) with our sin... "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." THAT my friend is one of the marvels of salvation! As far as what is meant by being "ready" for His return, there's a number of things we should be found doing... We're to be anxiously awaiting His return. And for those that have that deep longing to see Him again, there's the Crown of Righteousness for them; *II Tim 4:8* "Henceforth there is laid up for me a CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing" We're to be busy about witnessing, for there's the Crown of Rejoicing for those folks; *I Thess **2:19**,20...* "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? For ye are our glory and joy." O/things could be brought up that would help "ready us" for His return, *MARANATHA!*

[@markepperson2453]

You asked for proof that the “seals” and “trumpets” are not the wrath of God. You actually say that the Bible doesn’t say they are not His Wrath. Consider the fact that after the first 4 seals we see the 5th seal opened and we here the souls under the altar saying, “Rev 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; Rev 6:10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Notice then that 5 seals in to the wrath, according to you, that there has been no “judging” or “avenging”. Difficult to reason out wrath without judgement or vengeance. Then if you read on, chapter 7 tells us; Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads." There has been no damage after the first 6 seals have now been opened. We need to realize that the book could not be opened (realized/actualized) until all 7 seals were broken. Could it be that the seals serve more as a table of contents to the tribulation-trumpets and the wrath-bowls? In fact, the 5th seal souls under the altar are heard from again interestingly during the bowls of wrath in response to Jesus’ words to their question: Rev 16:7 And I heard the altar saying, "Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments." Simply fascinating! Hope this helps.

[@RobertFurrow]

Thanks Mark, I do believe The Tribulation period is the wrath of God.

[@user-gw1sk7kd9w]

Whatever view I have, the one with the other view comes against me with insults and sometimes death threats. They say there is no salvation for me. Sometimes I think that maybe they are right, until I remember Job’s three so-called friends. Three men hurled vile insults and false accusations against him.

[@RobertFurrow]

Right!