The Titanic: Who Survived And What Happened To Them

[@mlguy8376]

My absolute favourite podcast! I was always a mathematician and the humanities took a back seat, but as I approach the 40th year I start enjoying history more and more, especially presented with such humour.

[@mathewevans89]

Never realized I could watch this podcast, I'm addicted to it on prime , has become my go to podcast

[@decimustv4257]

Can you explain to me why? I just finished school and I have VOWED never to learn anything ever again!!!!! Why would anyone voluntarily learn stuff when you can watch movies, have fun, eat crisps and chocolates all day every day for ever

[@wiseguy8828]

What’s prime?

[@decimustv4257]

@@wiseguy8828 I believe Amazon Prime perhaps?

[@raincadeify]

@@wiseguy8828 Amazon streaming service I think..?

[@somebloke13]

@@wiseguy8828 Worse than sub-prime

[@elizabethavalon5299]

I really love Tom reading out the ridiculous dialogue from the Titanic movie.

[@stephendavies6949]

Excellent stuff. The way you skillfully mix humour, pathos, tragedy fear, terror & loss whilst telling the story is utterly compelling.

[@ttt2080]

Bruce Ismay lived in Costelloe Lodge, near Casla in Connemara, County Galway. My Great-Grandad built a couple of fishing boats for him in the 1920s.

[@viennasix9]

Surprised at the low number of likes this has got. Love this podcast, always provokes deep conversations with my other half.

[@MarekSkoczylas-vq8nx]

What a wonderful series of two historic intellectuals putting life into meaningful perspective - you guys have put history on another level

[@jeffreyhill4705]

It seems that that rate the ship sank would prohibit the launching of many more lifeboats. The crew and passengers would need to drill to improve their loading time.

[@jacquipettitt3389]

Absolutely brilliant podcast, and a great telling of this remarkable story.

[@Jedwbpm]

I can’t believe that there is no mention on your part of the loss of the Heir to the Earldom of Grantham

[@ted356]

Yes, that was an unforgivable omission . 😊

[@ezzler]

A really excellent series. So much detail and so much compassion. It’s an amazing listen.

[@d.c.8828]

A TITANIC podcast indeed! Marvelous series, gentleman! Hoo-rah!

[@hilaryc8648]

What happened to the iceberg?

[@SeanRCope]

Went on its way to finally melt away somewhere south. Was photographed the next day.

[@d.c.8828]

Got hooked on heroin. Went through a phase of different musical projects but it never really went anywhere. Eventually hit rock bottom and faded away into the annals of history.

[@tulyar57]

Did what icebergs do; kept itself below the surface (keeping a low profile) so who knows.

[@Salien1999]

Reckon the Americans bombed it?

[@jl91iii]

There was no iceberg, it was a cgi berg with thermite explosives. Big shipping are responsible.

[@bedofromkokstad9034]

Interesting sidebar: The concept of "women and children first" started with the sinking of the Birkenhead off the coast at Gansbaai near Cape Town/Cape of Good Hope in 1852.

[@jonahtwhale1779]

It was women first on the Titanic. There are many accounts of Men standing aside to allow women and children to board before them. There are ZERO accounts of women standing aside to allow more unrelated chikdren to be saved instead of her.

[@Sean-p3o]

Neil Oliver gives a good account of this

[@AndrewDederer]

You left out the other contemporary "heroic failure" the Scott Expedition had died less than a month before, it would be 6 more months till the bodies were found and a bit longer for the news to get out.

[@SunnyIntervalsORG]

We like to romanticise failure in Britain. Dunkirk is another example!

[@Academic-y9e]

What a delight to listen to you all!

[@jefferysomerville168]

Always great storytelling!

[@tnw31]

So the titanic went down a few weeks after Scott perished in the Antarctic ,ice and cold had a lot to answer for in 1012. You two play off each other so well it makes these podcasts doubly entertaining.

[@rl7012]

Yes but it wasn't the cold alone that killed Scott's party it was the warm. The weather on the way the pole was warmer than anticipated and the condensation in the tents turned the trek to slush. It was the continually being wet that did a lot of damage. He also took five people on an exhausting walk in the freezing slush with only enough food for four people.

[@victoriator8863]

Such a concentration of tragic details of the end of human lives, it's mind-boggling!

[@gilmour73]

I live in Halifax Nova Scotia. The bodies of the dead were brought here, and many are buried here. Some of the filming of Titanic happened here, and one of the best legends of the city is the time someone spiked the clam chowder at the wrap party with PCP, landing many people in hospital.

[@jacquelinedegeus3178]

This was really wonderful, thank you!

[@p0sn]

Never clicked on a video so quickly!

[@djgingecoldwell10]

Great Winston, reading 📚, a splendid achievement 👏

[@drgeorgek]

Brilliant stuff!

[@glossie6338]

Superb series

[@lindabirkett8803]

Dorothy Gibson, who starred in the early Titanic movie, was in a relationship with the producer and was probably coerced into taking part. She was very emotional during filming, and left Hollywood when the movie was complete and never appeared in another movie.

[@bruceanderson4120]

A small point that I may have missed as I only watched the last two chats is that of the Blue Riband. While not officially a trophy it was essentially bragging rights for the ocean liner with the fastest crossing time in a given year. Where this comes to play is the fierce competition for passengers which in turn drove bigger, faster, more luxurious etc...I believe that there is a scene in Cameron's Titanic where concerns about the engines not being properly broken in, traveling through an area known for icebergs were reason enough for not going at flank speed. It was downplayed by Ismay (Bad Bruce!) saying in effect that wouldn't it be grand for Titanic to win the speed record on her maiden voyage. Of course the movie reference is only a nod towards historical fact. In all likelihood the industry competition was quietly ignored by was provable negligence none the less. Totally enjoy your videos gentleman, not to mention your getting on with each other. Thanks much!

[@tulyar57]

My favourite quote from Cameron's 'Titanic' is when Roy Scheider says, on seeing the iceberg, "You're gonna need a bigger boat!".....or have I got the right movie?

[@GeldardtheGrey]

Wrong movie, pal. This one is where Quint calls Thomas Andrews a half-assed astronaut!

[@jonahtwhale1779]

No you are thinking of Bruce Almighty. When they saw the SJWs demanding representation for all of their victim groups on the ark - two each of all the genders - especially the non-binary ones!

[@jamesb5325]

No. You are thinking Master & Command where Captain Kirk went back in time to rescue a shark that was being contacted by aliens on LV-426 who were trying to stop Das Boot from going to sea

[@mirrage42]

When I was a child in the ‘60s my Dad was hired to do the interior restoration construction of Molly Brown’s Denver home. He took us to see it. That’s when I first heard about the Titanic. The house is on the National Historic Register.

[@chrrrles9363]

An aside: Hosono's grandchild is Harry Hosono- founder of Yellow Magic Orchestra and one of Japan's great musicians.

[@kailsar]

I once arrived in Belfast with a couple of Norwegians to work on an oil rig at Harland and Wolff. We got a taxi to the shipyard, and the taxi driver was talking about the Titanic. He was talking about sectarianism at Harland and Wolff, and how Catholics like his forefathers found it very difficult to find employment there. One of the Norwegians said 'how awful!', and the taxi driver retorted 'oh we didn't mind, we were busy building the iceberg!'

[@jonahtwhale1779]

Why didn't the Catholics work in the businesses that the Catholics started? Like the Protestants had to! I mean the businesses that did not exist uni!l the Protestants started them. Whereas the Catholics were not so entrepreneurial! See the difference? Same with femunists today. They want to share what men have built but will not build themselves! Can you name an industry created by women? There is far more than discrimination to both stories.

[@FMJIRISH]

Ah jesus that's an old one

[@vaughanlockett658]

I remember working at Shorts brothers and looking over the small estuary to the dock where Titanic was built, gazing up at the two cranes Samson and Goliath. Travelling back on the ferry to Liverpool arriving in the early morning and gliding past the liver building . With thoughts of the Titanic as they had discovered the wreakage revitalised after it's discovery and later the film releases made it one of the most famous tradgedy.

[@heatherrobertson6110]

Wonderful. Thank you.

[@benphilips9918]

It's worth mentioning that news of another iconic British tragedy took place within a couple of weeks of the sinking of the Titanic. At the end of April news reaches Britain that Captain Scott and his crew have died on their return journey from the South Pole, having discovered that the Norwegians under Roald Amundsen got there first.

[@tarquinbullocks1703]

Dominic's wedding band moves from his ring finger to his thumb (43:45) and back. Now I can't stop watching for it. 😟

[@joebombero1]

Good show! You would make an excellent detective

[@barracuda008l4]

Ridiculously the heroic sailor and upper class passages it remembers me the behaviour during Costa concorde sinking, where the captain was the first to abandon ship

[@neilgadsby3924]

Really great series. Thank you.

[@edwardloomis887]

Thank you for mentioning Margaret "Molly" Brown from Cameron's movie. She has been depicted repeatedly in U.S. entertainment media, most notably by Debbie Reynolds who received an Academy Award nomination for her 1960s biopic. The real Mrs. Brown helped others into early boats, pulled an oar, urged the crewman in her boat to go back, and on Carpathia advocated for 2nd and 3rd class passengers. Besides the Strauss and Astor stories, many Americans of a certain age consider the unsinkable Molly Brown a great national heroine.

[@Ozgipsy]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the movie. It was an impressive scale and a great story with great actors.

[@jonahtwhale1779]

A gynocentric horror movie! He should have let her jump!

[@rameyzamora1018]

Say what you will about "Titanic," I saw it in a theater & now I know close to how it would feel to be in a disaster like that ... Same thing happened when the heat went off at a winter screening of "A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch" many years ago. Movies that can do this are remarkable & I think valuable.

[@MultiProudMother]

I saw Titanic in the theater during a weekday matinee. Except for my husband and I, the whole audience was elderly. As the small crowd left the theater for the parking lot there was the heaviest silence.

[@justme8837]

I loved JC's Titanic

[@DornAndGrant]

Re - ‘Churchill - is not wrong is he?’ The best starting point with Churchill is that he’s almost always wrong!

[@nathandykes7639]

Loved this series! Have you considered doing an episode on the Laconia incident? A fascinatingly sad story

[@pauljenkins6877]

Regarding lifeboats, I believe that there was an assumption that the purpose of lifeboats was to shuttle passengers to rescue ships or shore. In this model, there was no need for enough lifeboats for every passenger.

[@fastpublish]

The British report is said to be the template for Peter Cook's epic sketch satirizing the Thorpe murder trial

[@vihmake]

I read that there was a somewhat macabre but practical reason for not having enough lifeboats on ships. Since ships usually list at some point, you can effectively use only half of the lifeboats. I also heard in a podcast that lifeboats were intended to transport people from a sinking ship to another ship that has come to offer aid as traffic across the Atlantic was quite busy.

[@barbararice6650]

My Albert Dennison gold hunter pocket watch was built the same year as the Titanic (1911), and its little brave heart is still ticking giving me the correct time 😕 A sorry episode the sinking of that great ocean liner, worth remembering ✌️😐

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

I would of carked it. Male and working class. Well done series fellas

[@jonahtwhale1779]

No, you would have been sacrificed. So your 'betters' - the women & wealthy - could be saved instead. Our society has not changed in these attitudes.

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

@@jonahtwhale1779 What cark means mate

[@jonahtwhale1779]

Cark means deceased, dearly departed, died, in a word ... dead. Otherwise, he has shuffled off this mortal coil, is no longer with us, an ex-passenger, has punched his ticket, kicked the bucket, gone to a better place or has passed away.

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

@@jonahtwhale1779 Yeah matey

[@ricktasker8248]

In their summary, they never mentioned that the lifeboat drills were cancelled by Captain Smith. And also the hubris in declaring the ship "unsinkable" and how that affected the crew. They say over and over that the ship was not trying to break a speed record, but it was probably on everyone's mind. They end up as apologists for their fellow Anglo-Saxons and British White Star Line.

[@MrJeremyWeeks]

Love you guys! Funny and insightful. But I will repeat, “No Taxation, without Representation”. I can’t join TRIH Club unless I get my moneys worth and you come to Toronto sometime!🙏

[@marblackCanada]

I live in the Maritimes, N.B. Canada our neighbour province is Nova Scotia 209 bodies are brought to Halifax ,59 bodies are claimed by families, the remaining 150 are buried in 3 cemeteries in the city. The Maritime Museum of the Atlantic web site has more information on these people.

[@georgerichwine1864]

Did you see the warning from KZbin?

[@MullahSteinberg]

Sir there were quite a few chinese travellers on that ship. In fact the last scene when caprio clinged onto a wooden plank was a chinese man And.nit winslet. They survivied and were quietly hushed away from new york and the news burried I know one of the decendents who now lives in canada ontario.

[@MaShcode]

A little surprised you didn’t site Hardy’s poem Convergence of the Twain or the curse the disaster heaped on the Boston Red Sox. They would never win another championship for 100 years.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

43:53 More relevant is "The Abyss." Cameron had experience with watery film making.

[@kevinkevin-ug9po]

They do have an official record on those who died.

[@phenom568]

I'm not sure where you guys are getting the "3 inches longer" from. Everything I've seen says the three sister ships had the same dimensions but the Titanic weighed more.

[@debse.7286]

I think what caused the disaster was the belief by the captains and sailors that sea travel was by nature dangerous. They could not conceive it was possible to make it safe. A sailor's natural attitude was to accept and ignore dangers. Probably, any talk of avoiding usual dangers would be seen as cowardice. So there were the tools available to avoid dangers - extra lifeboats, reducing speed in icefields, new communications. But the old guards' attitude was to ignore dangers they considered normal, so they could not innovate.

[@TracySmith-xy9tq]

1496 died. 712 survived. Titanic scholars have determined the numbers.

[@charliefarley9658]

1,517

[@zackdeniro4003]

I love this.. Great work fellas thanks for entertaining the ghastly crowd.. 😂

[@fd6661]

The floors were all Lino but a firm claimed to have made the carpet in the 1st class dining saloon and so they got an order to make them for the film. Chancers 😂

[@rantonz]

How you restrained yourself from ending an episode with “Be British boys!” I will never know.

[@kevinkevin-ug9po]

Titanic by James Cameron is a product of Hubris. Many aspects of that film would not happen because they could not happen. They did not know what they know now about the break up sequence. There are more details now on what happened. The book on a sea of glass uses all of the known information currently known in that book, it has been updated with new information that comes to light. Rostron followed the procedure of the day to save those in peril..

[@georgerichwine1864]

Wow

[@raincadeify]

16:16 "A brother, a father, or an uncle"? No aunts, mothers or sisters?

[@justynagraczyk8640]

It refers to the workers from Southampton and Liverpool, and they were mostly men.

[@raincadeify]

@@justynagraczyk8640 Thanks for filling that in.

[@longandshort6639]

How long after the Titanic sank before the Carpathia arrived?

[@jilliansmaniotto2326]

google it

[@DF-ss5ep]

2h30, I think, at around 4h30 AM.

[@JohnSmith-vz2jq]

Was it not Duff-Gordon rather than Duff Cooper? Duff Cooper being a later age politician.

[@Jeff-dv9jl]

Is it true that Churchill was seen to cry on a sufficient number of occasions to cause him to be known for the tendency? Even if true, 1912 was far too early for Churchill to have given cover to the admirably empathic among us - we the unashamed crybabies.

[@rl7012]

Lets just put the women surviving in context here. Titanic was almost unique in history for letting the women and children go first. The SS Birkenhead led the way but before then, and after this small period of time when women and children were first, men always survived the most and so did the crew. Titanic was almost unique losing so many crew as usually the group most likely to survive are the male crew. In the SS Atlantic out of over 940 men, women and children, the only survivors were Men, with a huge portion of the crew surviving. All the women, hundreds of women of all classes died. Only one child survived out of well over a hundred children. In the SS Artic every woman and child was killed in the sinking. Men were pulling women and children out of life boats so they could get in them. This included the male crew. Some male crew stood by their posts, but some did not care less. Some men stole the guns and booze and took off on nearly empty life boats not letting anyone else in and ignoring the drowning. Some men even took the opportunity of the sinking ship to try and rape the women. It was very brutal. It is only because of the very low to non existent survival rate for women and children on sinking ships, and the shameful toll of only men surviving on ships that were also filled with women and children, that measures like the Birkenhead and Titanic were made. However to this day it is still mostly men who survive ship wrecks. Look at the Sewell, mostly male crew survived, not a thought given to any passengers especially not the women and children.

[@MSuyay]

Great podcast. The only thing I have to say is that you guys use the word hubris way too much.

[@bullfighteragainstnonsense9924]

Dominic is excellent on his impressive Churchill voice impression Also on his French accents Excellent

[@howwwwwyyyyy]

I liked the "supernatural" version of the titanic where an angel stops it happening because he hates the title song from the film causing the butterfly effect

[@d.c.8828]

Here for Dominic's nihilistic interpretation... ...but it doesn't matter. ;-)

[@darlebalfoort8705]

When Titanic came out, I saw the film with an Irish- American man who was fascinated by the story of the Irish immigrants on the ship, and the construction of the ship, not the romance.

[@katiekress7287]

People died because there was not a space for everyone on board and class did determine your fate.

[@jonahtwhale1779]

What happened to the female survivors who prioritised their own survival over that of 50% of the children on board? Men who survived were publically shamed because a few women and many children had not be able to find places in the life boats. For example 3 men were divorced by their wives with his survival cited as part of the reason. Were the women survivors held to the same standard or did their female privikege protect them?

[@louiseoliver3453]

I've enjoyed this series but feel disappointed that a) no mention was made of why Dominic is a White Star man (because his name ends with '-ic') and b) that they didn't mention the Nazi Titanic film as one of the stranger itirations of the Titanic legend.

[@gracegrace2107]

Indeed, British culture of that time was better than other cultures of that time.

[@agnesrobakiewicz5639]

So, we're not going to mention the fact that "women and children first" was far from the norm in ship disasters? In fact, it's quite unprecedented- hence the confusion about how to follow the order?

[@davidcoleman2796]

When i go on a vacation cruise i always am clean shaved and have a dress. You never know . 😂

[@user-lw7om1sg1m]

If Ismay had not survived a lot of information needed for the enquiry into the sinking would never had been divulged He became the patsey for the establishment press

[@charliefarley9658]

Not so

[@waynedoucette1492]

Who built the British war ships at that time? Did Belfast do some?

[@charliefarley9658]

Yep, Belfast

[@Sean-p3o]

Churchill was really full of it wasn’t he Even people in he’s day would roll there eyes at he’s over the top verbosity

[@remycallie]

What is the basis for all the congratulations surrounding "women and children first"? A higher percentage of first class men survived than did third class women.

[@SeanRCope]

To my mind all Ismay had to do was get wet. Lightoller did it, he was a smart guy. He could have worked it out to quickly jump in the water near a life boat. He was around them all night. So he didn’t want to get wet and that to me is cowardly considering…

[@bilinguru]

Never has a man been so wrong about an histroical figure. Dominic, I love you, but Captain Smith, despite being a Central Casting Captain, did just about everything wrong. The Titanic was a Golden Parachute assignment to cap off a great career. Yet, he was past his prime and his inadequacy ended up killing hundreds of people who might otherwise have survived. Indeed, another Captain may have saved the ship herself.

[@JPKnapp-ro6xm]

Smith never actually gave the order to abandon ship. Once his junior officers told him the ship would sink, he left the bridge and wandered around essentially doing nothing.

[@justme8837]

I think it would be that way today... do you think they would let famous, rich people men die on a ship today? Ben Affleck etc would be saved and to heck with some "regular" person, It wasn't perfect but they did do pretty good.

[@jonahtwhale1779]

The titanic movie is a gynocentric, horror movie. Men sacrificed at every turn for women's feelings! For example the gem stone... she was flown out to the exploration ship and informed explicitly what they were looking for. Does she hand the gem, which she stole, over to them or dump it in the ocean?

[@unbabunga229]

One thing about Churchill’s comment, ‘race’ meant something different back then, it just meant ‘the people of land/country’ regardless of colour etc. Also, is he not right? Men willing to die to let women and children survive? I wouldn’t want to live in a society that thought differently

[@humblescribe8522]

No, he meant race. It's just that they divided Caucasians into sub types; Anglo Saxon, Mediterranean, Teutonic, Nordic etc. And also saw Irish as "a breed apart". The early 20th century was the height of "scientific racism." 15:55

[@unbabunga229]

@@humblescribe8522 ah you’re an unintellectual. You’d know Churchill was against the (largely left wing) scientific racism and eugenics, if you had ever read anything about the subject

[@jonahtwhale1779]

You reiterated his point - the word race had a different meaning then to that understood today. If you substitute the word 'culture' into Churchill's comments you would get a closer match to his intended meaning. Different societies have different cultures- some are better than others eg most are far more racist than US culture today or FGM is common in some but not others.

[@humblescribe8522]

@@jonahtwhale1779 No, he argued that in 1912, 'race' just meant nationality, and had no connotation of skin tone. That is 180 degrees away from the truth. The fact that they also found minor discrepancies between 'white' 'races' worthy of note does not reiterate his point at all. Sadly, Churchill would not have regarded black Britons as being part of the 'British race', and even more sadly, that attitude has yet to completely leave us in the 21st century.

[@DF-ss5ep]

@@humblescribe8522 I agree. This was the age of concentration camps in the Boer Wars, of Dreyfus, and of eugenics.This can be seen, for example, in what the Fabian Society was proposing at around this time.

[@fargosnow994]

So cute to listen to men who are not mariners talk about ships 😅

[@EpicLouisiana]

I think the whole Titanic story gets way too much focus in western culture and media. It was an event that had very few- if any real butterflies - 2 years later, the world entered into the most violent and destructive 31 year period in history. Around 150 million people were killed between 1914 and 1945 in the two World Wars, Spanish flu Pandemic and the impact of the Great Depression. It was probably the worst time to have been alive this side of the Black Death.

[@robertalpy]

Unless you are a Gugenheim or an Astor, what sort of life would a woman or child have with their breadwinner being picked at by lobsters at the bottom of the sea.

[@ted356]

The Titanic tragedy is an example of a Black Swan event..

[@d.c.8828]

Is it tho ? 🤔

[@ValenDumail-nr9ws]

Le plus choquant que j'arrive pas à rentrer dans ma dans ma tête parce que je suis intelligente j'avais pas compris dans mon et des j'avais pas assez de parce que déjà quand tu vois l'argent quand tu vois le bateau qui fait et moi je trouve ça bizarre j'ai commencé j'ai dit c'est des cerveaux évoluer bizarre il sentait quelque chose je sais pas ils avaient un doute il était il y avait un pressentiment parce que vraiment déjà là vraiment j'ai dit que c'était un miracle qui est déjà enfin ça servait à rien ils ont ils ont ils sont morts papier prix des survivants pas beaucoup

[@fargosnow994]

Captain Smith was s coward. He abandoned his crew and the passengers, preferring to dodge any blame for the sinking, when his crew and the passengers could have used his leadership, during this disaster. Yes, he would have been vilified, but that is something a good leader can handle to do their duty.

[@jilliansmaniotto2326]

… no he didn’t?

[@HarmlessTed]

When do you get back to the good stuff? Cathage and Rome etc...?

[@billbissenas2973]

There was plenty of room on that door… just sayin’

[@jilliansmaniotto2326]

it wasn’t a door. it was a piece of wall paneling. and even if there was enough “room” on the piece of paneling, it would have submerged both of them partially in the water, likely leading to them both dying long before returning lifeboats could have made it back to them.

[@stuartcalow737]

Walt Disney,? Karl Marx?!

[@ExiledGypsy]

Like all Cameron's film it is nothing but sentimental rubbish. His wife left him and made a film about men wrestling while defusing bombs. Cameron starts to sound like the kind of man that leaves a woman missing testosterone of ANY kind..

[@jamyangnorbu7895]

It melted, eventually. Good riddance.