What Happened The Night The Titanic Sank

[@CaesarInVa]

My compliments on what is, quite simply, a superb recounting and analysis of the Titanic's loss. I daresay this is the best I've encountered thus far and I've been fascinated by (and have read, listened to and watched practically everything on the topic) for some 60 years. As a former sailor, a quick word about the lifeboats: although most of the lifeboats were rated to carry 40 occupants maximum, in a flat calm as were the conditions under which the Titanic sank the capacity could have been exceeded by at least 50% without much threat to foundering. If the weather deteriorated and the wind and waves picked up, well, things might have gotten pretty wet, but given the conditions and sea state at the time of Titanic's sinking, easily several hundred more passengers could have been saved by over-loading the lifeboats. On a related note (meaning to say, desperate times calling for desperate measures), anything made of wood should have been dislodged, uprooted, pried off the deck, removed from its hinges, etc. and tossed overboard. Deck planking, doors, furniture, table tops, even deck chairs should have been lashed together and cast overboard to provide flotation. Yes, the waters were deadly cold, but one doesn't have to stay completely out of the water to survive the two or three hours till help's arrival. Just getting most of the body out of the water will buy several hours time. One other thought: I've often wondered if the Titanic's captain had a motorized gig or launch for personal use. By 1912, I'm fairly certain that motorized gigs/launches were available and had one been on the Titanic, I should have thought it would have been a relatively easy thing to launch it and send it speeding to the California ( which was laying to about ten miles distant, clearly observable to those on the Titanic's deck) to solicit her help. Oh, and Tom, your voice is simply mellifluous!!! Sorry Dominic!!!

[@fionathorne4751]

Loved this series. I felt rather relieved in previous episodes when you said how marvellous the ship was for all passengers and thought, well, least that's something. Then, I listened to this episode. Think why i also haven't watched the titanic for 25 years. I cant stop thinking about it now. So awful. Great analysis of it.

[@nickroberts990]

When these are finished I'm watching them all from the start. This is so fascinating and in depth

[@d.c.8828]

Nice pun! 😉 🥁

[@Ozgipsy]

This is an epic series guys. Outstanding.

[@jandedick7519]

I just discovered your channel. Love love these episodes on titanic! Great channel and I’m a new subscriber. Thank you

[@d.c.8828]

I've been on the edge of my iceberg waiting for this to drop!

[@shivabreathes]

I am very glad to have discovered this KZbin channel.

[@uncleheavy6819]

Given Hollywood's revisionist attitude to history, I'm kind of surprised that there isn't a film where Titanic makes it to New York.

[@nigeh5326]

Doctor Who did an episode with a space liner in trouble that’s a little reminiscent of the Titanic but with some crazy aspects. Good fun as long as you treat it as entertainment 😊

[@bbainter7880]

Don't forget, Captain Smith will be black in the remake. Thanks Netflix

[@steventrotter4958]

Given the United Kingdoms views on saying anything a bit naughty on the Internet I'm surprised you haven't been whisked to a blacksite yet

[@kingcharles30922]

They have... Raise the titanic is the movie

[@Trippeak]

And the captain is a bipoc woman

[@TheGhiaDriver]

Something to note about lifeboats, they were only ever intended to transfers passengers to another ship, not evacuate everyone aboard, a common misunderstanding. Also, having more hardly ever helps. When ships sink, they almost always capsize and sink quicker so there is no time to load and launch them. Even here on titanic which remarkably sank on a fairly even keel and extremely slowly there wasn't enough time to launch all 20.

[@CaesarInVa]

Speaking of capsizing, something that has always struck me as odd is that Titanic went down on an even keel. That would suggest to me that either the Titanic lacked longitudinal bulkheads....or the Captain ordered counter-flooding to keep her on an even keel as she went down....which would have actually accelerated her loss.

[@jodij2366]

​@@CaesarInVa, Titanic didn't have longitudinal bulkheads, but it has been speculated that the emptying of a coal bunker during the voyage may have changed the weight distribution enough to counteract the natural list of the sinking Titanic.

[@michael_iansmiththeMHistorian]

A team of Titanic experts actually worked with James Cameron on the Titanic's lifeboats, testing how long it would take to prepare, swing out, and lower each boat. It took them about 10 minutes to do all this just for one lifeboat. Given that there were 20 lifeboats, it would have taken them 3 hours and 20 minutes to get all lifeboats lowered away, a 40 minute difference to the actual sinking time of the Titanic.

[@cheeto8960]

They launched all the regular boats 20 mins before it sank, the 4 collapsible boats were harder to launch since they had no crane or pulleys

[@mojo199]

Part of the reason Lightoller did not fill the life boats was not only the "women and children" mantra, it was to do with the standard ship survival plan at the time and the fact that the lifeboats had to be suspended and lowered. Nearly all ships did not carry enough life boats at the time. The standard operating procedure in a sinking would be for the able bodied onboard to basically swim out to the lifeboats once the life boats were lowered. At the same time the lifeboats were meant to be organised into a rescue flotilla by the responsible officers and crew. Women and children at the time were viewed as vulnerable people, they were not seen as able bodied which is why they were reserved for the boats first. There was a concern that the davits which suspended the lifeboats would break if lowered with a full boat, therefore Lightoller's plan was to fill the lifeboats when they were almost in the water and have men climb into the boats from the ships side doors or swim out to the boats once in the water. The two reasons this plan failed is that firstly the ship sank too rapidly, which meant the side doors could not be accessed for very long as the boat sank below the waterline and when the life boats were eventually lowered in the water they did not return to pick up survivors as they had been ordered to by Lightoller

[@CaesarInVa]

Ummmm....I'm not too sure about that. It seems to me people didn't have a whole lot of spare time to spend in such recreational/leisure pastimes as swimming in those days and pools were considered luxuries that were few and far between. As a consequence, most people in those days couldn't swim. Heck, most SAILORS weren't good swimmers, if even they swam. So the notion of putting boats in the water and letting people swim out to them seems to me like attempted murder.

[@carlmclaughlin5578]

​@@CaesarInVa they had life jackets on

[@drstrangelove4998]

@@carlmclaughlin5578regardless whether they had lifebelts on, life in those icy waters were counted in minutes. Half or third filled lifeboats rowed immediately away from the Titanic to avoid being swamped. It was a grave mistake on Lightoller’s part to send those boats away so empty.

[@davidgates2072]

I've become utterly obsessed with your podcast, and unlike many of my previous obsessions I regard it as nothing but a good thing. I've learned SO much, I had great interest in history, but to know the greater nuances and wider context about subjects that otherwise I'd have overlooked (Custer and Sitting Bull are two exceptional examples) is like fibre for the soul! I can lose hours but gain decades worth of knowledge, it frankly should be part of the curriculum. I didn't think I could like you guys anymore than I did already, but if I'm not mistaken Dominic, it looks as though there's quite the collection of classic Who DVD's on your shelf. Good show!

[@neenaj365]

This is so upsetting. I found a story about one of my forebears where a young lad in the family went on the Titanic with a family friend The aim was to go and find a better life in the USA with a family member. *Edit* I’ve checked my Ancestry and it turns out that Alfred was my 1st cousin 3xremoved. I feel devastated that I’ve only just learned the whole story at aged 53.

[@katarinavidakovic4718]

You two are marvellous I know all abaut titanic but you just make it totally new experience ❤

[@Blazen1212]

I find it incredible that the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustav killed 6 times as many people as the Titanic...including thousands of women and children. However, for whatever reason, fairly few people know about it. It rarely gets talked about even though it's the greatest maritime disaster in history

[@d.c.8828]

"What a tremendous reflection on Britain this is!" 🤣🤣🤣

[@vhufeosqap]

Great series

[@tarquinbullocks1703]

Could you wish for a better podcast? Absolutely excellent.

[@TallulahB58]

These guys and The Prehistory Guys are my favorite channels

[@Mike20216]

Another Excellent series

[@kevinkevin-ug9po]

Rhoda Abott was with her sons Eugene and Rossmore at collapsable A, they were sucked into the ship in a whirpool that had developed, she came to the surface and her boys were gone, she called out Eugene and Rossmore and was about to give up when a strong arm pulled her into the boat, that boat had a foot of water in it and she stood knee deep shivering in the collapsible until they were rescued. She had her full salvation army outfit on. Rossmores body was recovered and buried at sea, 24th April, Eugene,s body was if recovered was never identified. Rhoda Abbot was the only female passenger pulled from the water that survived.

[@nickcalmes8987]

Lightholler was made the hero in the 1958 movie a night to remember, and Murdoch, though he had the helm at the time titanic hit the iceberg was truly the hero. He was given such a terrible rap in the 1997 movie.

[@philbraithwaite1316]

Superb series only spoiled by no mention of the quintessential Titanic movie all us (British) 70s kids grew up with, the 1958 film “A Night to Remember”. It’s even got a Criterion release on DVD which says enough. Otherwise it was epic! 😅

[@bobtaylor170]

Yes, it's the best. Obviously, it lacks the visual tools James Cameron had forty years later, but I think it's a better movie.

[@plantagenant]

Which used footage made by the Nazi's when they were making their own Titanic film (weird but true!)

[@phillipdrake4371]

Wow listened to bunch of these great conversations

[@ropeburnsrussell]

Will you do the Birkinhead soon? Seems fitting.

[@markvargas2352]

Gents, you have such a great channel! But why in the name all that is Great Britannia, don't you use the film A Night to Remember as your media example rather than the drivel that is the Cameron movie? And no mention of the uncredited scenes from the German 1943 film Titanic (and how the Gestapo strung up the director?)

[@martiwilliams4592]

Thank you!!!!

[@Chadhogan111]

Well that was quite stirring

[@agamemnonhatred]

😮I knew the basic facts, but the individual stories are incredibly harrowing. This one will live with me for a great while.

[@MrBaritone38]

"Woman and children first" but Sir Cosmo Edmund Duff-Gordon was allowed on the FIRST boat. Was it one rule for the rich and another for the poor? First class: 63% survived. Second class: 42% and only 24% of third class. 166 women and children lost their lives.

[@whatsinaname1890]

They give the answers in the video.

[@johncarroll772]

What about the drunken heroic baker who survived

[@_BirdOfGoodOmen]

An absolute Chad

[@philbraithwaite1316]

“All roads lead to Rome…. hic!”

[@socrates2006a]

Walter Lord in "The Night Lives On" cites two documentary pieces of evidence that an officer shot himself. He looks at the possible candidates but judiciously says there is not enough evidence to say who it was. One piece of evidence comes in a letter from Eugene Daly to his sister in Ireland, written not long after the loss of the Titanic - Daly was on one of the collapsibles so was in a position to see. The other was from first class passenger George Reimes to his wife in France. These are independent sources by witnesses close to the scene. So as Lord says, they cannot be discounted even if it is difficult to say who the officer was. So I found the dismissal of this by the two presenters as just "rumour" to be somewhat unfounded. Because Lord's first book is so well known, his second is often not given the credit for looking in depth at several aspects of the Titanic disaster.

[@duncancurtis5108]

At midnight the scramble was yet to set in. Thomas Andrews checks his watch, no one readied. Mr Lightoller!

[@CR7Ashironaldo]

"women and children first", i wonder if such values are left in today's society

[@littlelights6798]

I wonder that - I'd hope so at least as regards children

[@frankknudsen842]

Fred Barrett later testified once the ship finally stopped the firemen had several minutes to close the dampers and release the steam or the ship wouldn't have gone down but blown up

[@mirrage42]

This is so moving, I’m having to take a break from listening.

[@sifridbassoon]

I LOVE Andrews' line!

[@phenom568]

Something I've not thought about before now but why were they lowering a boat half empty then the next boat half empty. Were the people who went into the second boat not present for the filling of the first boat?

[@kevinkevin-ug9po]

There were 2 bands on the ship, there is information on the areas were the were playing.

[@fd6661]

I may be wrong but in the James Cameron film, the running time from when they hit the ice berg is the same length as it took for the real ship to sink.

[@SunnyIntervalsORG]

Did Lightholler adopt the same overly strict "women and children first" rules at Dunkirk? 😂

[@kevinkevin-ug9po]

The thing is the conversations on the bridge that are known are very few, they dont really know what was said between Andrews and the captain. Other conversatiins like get the carpenter to sound the ship or what Murdoch said. What happened in The chart room is speculation. We know Captain Smith spoke to the wireless marconi operatotors, position etc, even had a laugh about SOS comment from Bride, hardly ever mentioned. There is evidence that the engines were re started and Titanic moved ahead, but then were rung off for the last time shortly after. There are so many issues around this, the Captain must have said ahead. So much information is missing. They had tested the lifeboats, its not like they put them on the ship and didnt know the capacity. Lightholler most likely lied at the enquiry, the problem is a lot of the testimony information from the enqiries is lost. Charles Joughin was down inside at his cabin when they were closing bulkheads, he saw it happening, he also was down bellow for a glass of water shortly before the break up and he heard a loud buckling sound and a running sound. The period, Edwardian era was different in the moral code, it was different then regarding woman and children first. It was a mark of shame to have survived, many men had difficulties in their social circle having got into a boat. The plan from the captain was to leave the ship but stay close to the ship for loading more passengers. They also forgot that B deck was enclosed with glass forward an error of loading because of the Olympic layout, they had no ability to open the windows as the had to crank shaft equipment there. So much is not known.

[@fd6661]

Search 2nd officer Joseph Boxhall he has a lot to say about what was said.

[@inkoftheworld]

Tom interrupts a lot... xD Otherwise amazing podcast!

[@jackharriet4814]

Thank you - this is a fantastic series about the Titanic and a very brilliant podcast in general. But - I think you are glossing over the survival rates according to class. The survival rate by gender is well known... but I'll paste this following text in which I found online with a quick search, which has similar figures to what I've seen before on the subject... "First class passengers had the highest survival rate at 62 percent, followed by second class at 41 percent, and third class at 25 percent. Women and children survived at rates of about 75 percent and 50 percent respectively, while only 20 percent of men survived". Given the Edwardian society which the Titanic was from, and its own three tiers onboard, to think that the first class weren't prioritised during the sinking would surely be hard to argue, as the facts show. But I am loving these podcasts - thanks.

[@Psmith-ek5hq]

Did they re-arrange the deckchairs?

[@semilio1]

The fact that the men and young boys had to forfeit their lives when there were seats in the boats is criminal on the part of the British officers.

[@leewohlfert5462]

0:27 great. Never heard this story before 😜😜

[@erichaynes5826]

65? Those boats were tested in Belfast with the weight of 70 men!

[@socrates2006a]

Mention is given of the idea that it was an accident waiting to happen. But it had happened! In 1901 the SS Islander struck an iceberg and foundered. She was reported to have carried 107 passengers and a crew of 61 during the last voyage. In total, 40 people died. This would have been reported in the news, but it was the sheer scale of the Titanic disaster and loss of lives which means we still look back at that, and hardly anyone but history buffs or maritime geeks know about the Islander. So the real question should be: was an accident on that scale waiting to happen? Probably yes, but not just an accident - but one on that scale, would have made the news.

[@StillChrist]

When you think about it, the crows nest crew could possibly have averted disaster by PRETENDING to have seen an iceberg. Probably could have halved the speed until daybreak.

[@robertalpy]

That a 16 year old boy sobbing and begging while the women who tried to hide him were sobbing and begging, was forced at gunpoint to his doom while Bruce Ismay survives.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

Unconnected incidents.

[@angelakyle4838]

My only claim to fame is that I once lived next door to a Titanic survivor. Have to say this is a poor episode from The Rest is History - why use the awful James Cameron film as their reference point 🤔 he had no right to accuse Murdoch of the shooting with no definitive proof (and from what I saw of the film the script was terrible). The role of the Californian is glossed over in this episode - I’d recommend Lesley Reade’s excellent book ‘The Ship that Stood Still’ for anyone who is interested in the facts - it’s a masterpiece of deduction.

[@DenethordeSade.90]

There is an alternate history novel or short story to be written about the Titanic making its trip successfully

[@fastpublish]

The great unwritten work is Flashman And The Iceberg. How would literature's greatest cad have behaved? Perhaps he would have redeemed himself. I hope not. Visions of him sitting alone in a lifeboat, smoking and drinking, surrounded by dead bodies. And yet somehow he is taken for a hero.

[@robertalpy]

We are still good tippers. 15% for basic service and as high as 25% for those who don't burn our prime rib and jump through literal hoops.

[@barbararice6650]

Come quick old man the water is up to the boilers 😕

[@kevinkevin-ug9po]

Captain Smith and Andrews were last seen on the roof of the bridge and jumping off.

[@claudermiller]

They had to make sure the wealthier people boarded before causing a panic.

[@rameyzamora1018]

A moment, please. (1) First class passengers only had elegant fancy dress with them; their outer garments would naturally be made of rich materials. (2) The passengers could not know how many lifeboats would be made ready for them or when they'd be allowed to board or when the ship itself would sink - how could they make calm, reasoned & logical decisions about whether to get on or go back to "safety" inside? They were told to wait their turn by men in authority & they did, expecting they would be cared for. (3) Men would have to be on each boat to row away from the ship.

[@gho5trun3r68]

What's so tragic and interesting is that there is a complete disproportionate amount of adult men on board the ship compared to women and children. At a certain point, there just aren't any to fill in these boats that want to go in. Obviously it's one of those statistics that probably isn't known to the crew, but it just further shows how completely stupid the women and children only policy is for Lightoller to take. Surely at some point, you'd have to notice the crowd is almost all men, waiting for the lifeboat. A policy, that when it began on the sinking ship of Birkenhead, was so above and beyond the call of duty being made standard is such a recipe for maximizing casualties in these situations where sailors interpret it differently. Just makes me frustrated hearing about Lightoller's side and the criticism toward the men that do survive.

[@benquinneyiii7941]

First step in the process

[@DTroop10thCav.]

Captain Smith was in command of the Olympic when it had its accident with a Navy ship.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

Except that he wasn't, at the time of the collision. Olympic was in the Solent at the time, in the charge of a Solent Pilot.

[@PokerDuende]

🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@JoeBilello1969]

There really isnt any mystery here, based on the thousand hours i spent doing my own research it seems pretty cut and dry to me no matter what you consider. Maybe cheaper rivits gave way sooner, so what? This is an old story of greed and money over human life and nothing has changed, the disgusting charades after the fact always sickens me, the audacity of the scapegoating is what should anger people almost as much as the initial corruption and ineptitude that lead to the disaster in the first place!! Its insane that any ship would've been allowed to leave port without life-saving provisions for everyone aboard, all of those who turned a blind eye to that are the one's who should've been prosecuted 😢

[@davidknox5929]

Gt series

[@what8562]

Disagree on "beeing a good person kills you and being"difficult" bla...bla...bla..." The men who actively helped loading the boats without a hope of getting in were ordered in because there were no enough seamen to man the boats.

[@matthabir4837]

The Birkenhead Drill...

[@jenjen.rutherford8559]

So sick of the titanic . What about a series on the partition of india. Only you two can wrestle with the complexities of this and disgorge it so it makes sense.😮

[@monieks.7515]

Is the story about the drunk baker on the back of the ship when it sinks not true?

[@Tom-kt8lu]

Sank not sunk.

[@Psmith-ek5hq]

In short, it hit an iceberg, filled with water, then sunk.

[@simongleaden2864]

28:02 "gender"? Sex!

[@brianbooth679]

Im guessing it sinks(spoiler alert).

[@vhufeosqap]

Wow thanks… ruined it

[@d.c.8828]

😭

[@johnfernleigh1352]

Is that funny? Remember 1,500 lives were lost and be respectful. It's like asking jokingly if the twin towers collapsed.

[@Salami-I-Like-Um]

It was listing when it left Southampton, because it was the Olympic NOT the Titanic.

[@Dizzy19.]

Don't be ridiculous.

[@eamonnmulhern2332]

I'm all for equal rights. One day we'll be equal to women, but not if they can help it😂😂😂😂

[@Salami-I-Like-Um]

Olympic?

[@tomcervo]

The radio messages: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKm1f2WkhcRsmqMsi=pTo7hlkeq30RLiel

[@fastpublish]

How many women shamed their men into staying behind in order to get rid of them?

[@Dabhach1]

Ooohhh, that's cynical.

[@fastpublish]

Perhaps, but if just one did it ... even as a passing idea as she stepped into a lifeboat...@@Dabhach1

[@scabbycatcat4202]

Oh the IGNORANCE !!! "William Murdoch is effectively the man in charge "........ Why don't these commentators do a little research about the subject they are commenting on ??

[@dindu551]

these guys kinda suck. they talk about amazing subjects but it's just not interesting at all.

[@thomasphelan4691]

I am left wondering how were the trans women treated

[@bilinguru]

If you are going to compare how long it took for the Titanic to sink (2:45) to random stuff at the outset, why not state that it took roughly 4 of your podcasts. Bu actually it took you guys 5 episodes for some reason. Too much first class coverage aand unecessary readings of source letters or diary entries in bad accents. Could have shot for the 2:45 target lads. Great concept though, just have to control yourselves.

[@gosiachaaban2484]

Enjoyed every episode, accents included.

[@pdog547]

@@gosiachaaban2484Agreed, do 5 more!

[@strahaironscale571]

the officers with guns forcing people out of boats playing go deserve condemnation