Brexit Regrets and Salisbury Spies | Theresa May

[@sjengineeringservices8282]

I have been a Labour voter all my life But what an honest and open interview Theresa May is obviously not who I would vote for but compared to recent PMs What a class act

[@antonylane2837]

I met her once, when attending Westminster; bumped into her upon leaving the palace; she was most polite and l would argue one of the only 10% there; that are for the people.

[@thewoodster8607]

Don't be fooled. She is as utterly ruthless as any other PM. You don't get there without being so. I love that there was no discussions about her policy failings.

[@RanmaSyaoranSaotome]

Exactly. She cried when she resigned, but never cried for the victims of the Grenfell tower fire. @@thewoodster8607

[@Autotechmechanics]

6:40

[@storm_shadow78]

The hostile environment was an absolute evil!

[@andrewlloydcraven2005]

Refreshing for a former P.M to agree to podcast and stand up to scrutiny. Very good listening and highly commendable. Im a labour supporter and appreciated this interview profoundly.

[@aperson22222]

I’m sure you know that Major and Blair have both done it too, as well as a handful of foreign former PMs. Still waiting on Johnson. . . .

[@rosiecesareo8092]

Thank you for making Politics enjoyable! Love, love, love your podcast.

[@iangascoigne8231]

She does have a book to flog.

[@jankench1731]

Good point. ​@@iangascoigne8231

[@jimbobbean5845]

This is so refreshing! Different political views coming together without arguing and underlying bitterness. 👏

[@john1703]

But the past cannot simply be ignored. Johnson and Truss have done enormous harm to the UK (treason?), yet they remain free to walk the streets.

[@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme]

This is what happens when you have grown ups in a room, as opposed to billionaire oligarchs with a position to keep

[@everestyeti]

​@@I_Was_Chrispy_KremeSo true.

[@michaelgray7847]

Campbell,along with Tony Blair should be behind bars , for obvious reasons.

[@adrianb9999]

i’m bitter

[@webMonkey_]

Rory is the glue in these interviews. I am not a Tory boy but I have to be able to say the man has reached across the aisle more than most.

[@Goldenwolfteeth]

Rory's a remainer on the left of the Tory party, interviewing a PM on the left of the Tory party about how they could avoid delivering Brexit for the 'right -ish' of the nation.

[@Krytern]

​@@GoldenwolfteethTheresa May is not leftwing. Wtf?

[@Goldenwolfteeth]

@@Krytern The left of the Tory party and left wing are not the same thing. She’s a socially liberal, economically centre-right globalist. Just like Blair, Brown, Cameron, Starmer, and Rory.

[@milesblack1830]

true but had they been interviewing Jeremy Corbyn, I suspect Alastair would be the 'glue' and Rory would be the one asking the tougher questions

[@locorum9103]

​@@milesblack1830 I've never heard Alistair say anything positive about Corbyn. I remember him complaining about McDonnell after they did a relatively cordial interview. I think Rory would actually be more fair to the Labour left than Alistair judging by his appearance on Novara.

[@williamj8349]

This really is the most fantastic opportunity. Thank you for making a podcast of such high quality.

[@johnschlesinger2009]

What a huge difference between Theresa May as PM and the lady we see here: the former - brittle, defensive, unrelaxed. Here: totally "on the ball", relaxed, easy going, factual. What a shame she was unable to be her true self when she was in a position of power.

[@outnortheast]

I see no difference in her. I suspect the real difference lies in ur attitude towards her now - which of course at the time she was pm, was tainted by bozo’s big dirty tricks mouth.

[@niallmcdonaghcosolicitors1201]

She may turn out to be the best ex PM in a while. Great that she didn't ascend to the House of Lords and soporific obscurity up there. Stayed in Commons and made Johnson look stupid schoolboy standard more than once

[@Simalacrum]

I've noticed this happens quite often with political leaders after they leave leadership - Ed Miliband comes across as extremely likeable and relatable since he left the leadership role, too

[@toi_techno]

Tories are a danger to the health and happiness of the poor and vulnerable communities Treating them as normal politicians is wrong

[@thelightisahead]

Agreed. I’m on the Labour side of things and so used to revel in Theresa May’s seemingly continual misfortunes, but with what’s come since I now have a lot more respect for her and find it really refreshing to hear her views and the way she expresses them.

[@annabelmackirdy7068]

Love the interviews. It is great to hear polite and very well argued debate

[@Snugggg]

also so refreshing to have grownups discussing politics.

[@seymourclearly]

Absolutely, it should be normal, not notable

[@HappyBob701]

is it a debate though? Its basically just an interview of Theresa with Rory adding some intelligent thoughts and Alistair being a banal prick as usual.

[@countfosco8535]

@@HappyBob701 why do you lower the tone

[@sherlockgnomes8971]

⁠@@countfosco8535Because he's a bitter and miserable human.

[@ollietaro]

Thanks Rory for clarifying certain british terms for us international listeners!! 🙏 ❤️

[@stephenconway2468]

We need more in depth interviews like this. Thank you.

[@VirtualFunction]

As a British person who's become rather disgusted with our system... I have to say it's heartening to see people of such wildly different affiliations having such a mutually respectful conversation. I hesitate to say that our American counterparts could quite manage this.

[@iainmackenzieUK]

perhaps in a similar environment they would?

[@glantont]

An incredible conversation between three people I'd never have expected to find common ground or understanding with. Oh for a world where politicians could speak so openly before we elect them or while they're on office

[@toi_techno]

Dont be fooled by the mealy-mouthed Tories are a danger to the health and happiness of the poor and vulnerable communities Treating them as normal politicians is wrong

[@waywed]

This is one of the very best vlogs/podcasts around. It uniquely presents both centre-left and centre-right viewpoints and nuance via experienced and knowledgeable hosts. Long may we have it!

[@PrinsTan]

I may not agree at all with many of her policies, or beliefs, but it seems to me that Prime Minister May is genuine in her devotion to service for the betterment to the country, and her constituency.

[@jethrod7487]

Yes, she has integrity but the situation in the UK is now appalling - the need for a Labour Government is critical

[@Bertrum123]

​@@jethrod7487she didn't have much integrity with windrush i remember her under thatcher she was horrible then . don't let her smooth charm fool you .

[@PMMagro]

Same here. I whould have loved to see her in the civil service or as a diplomat etc, where others set the political priorities.

[@johnwright9372]

The world is full of politicians convinced of their own beliefs who are wrong in their ideology and in practice commit dreadful errors of judgment. May is one.

[@jhvscs]

have we always referred to former prime ministers as 'prime minister'?

[@thewyj]

In a recent PMQs, Theresa May stood up to ask a question and the House fell absolutely silent while she spoke. As soon as she was finished and Sunak stood up to answer, the heckling and talking started again. It might be a coincidence, but I got the sense that May is deeply respected.

[@sheep3370]

For what exactly?

[@powderedground78]

@@sheep3370 For being an excellent back bencher. Since she stepped down as PM, she's been a vocal critic of how the Tories have played out since. I always felt she was dragged around by the ERG et al and didn't stand up to it. Sad really.

[@glennthompson1971]

@@powderedground78and she inherited a poisoned chalice from Cameron - trying to negotiate Brexit that had polarized the entire country, with ERG pushing for hard brexit and many in government trying to stop brexit. she threaded the needle far better than most ever could, and was undermined

[@sheep3370]

@@powderedground78 I'm just not that sympathetic. She still pushed austerity and while the toxicity that has infected politics didn't begin with her, she did little to fight it. Hell she went along with it. Her actions as home sec opened the door for Patel and Braverman. I agree with a lot of what she says here but her actions don't reflect her words

[@AkiraNasuki]

​​​@@glennthompson1971at the end of the day, Cameron was smart enough to walk away, but brexit is basically his version of Iraq for Blair and the Falkland War for Margaret Thatcher and will forever be the thing he will be blamed for. It essentially ruined the nation for my generation that have to deal with the fallout and the future generation that have to live up and go through it. Brexit never won by a massive and decisive margin, that was the major mistake of it. It then became a power struggle for party leader, none of who we had voted for... at the end of the day, half the nation didnt want to leave, half wanted to leave...

[@glennthompson1971]

Fascinating interview. Never liked the Conservative Party, but I felt at the time that Theresa May was a real public servant, and I was frustrated as a Remainer that other Remainers blew up and celebrated destroying May’s hard negotiated soft Brexit. If only they had not done that, we could have been saved all the chaos and lawlessness of Boris Johnson and Liz Truss.

[@catinthehat906]

Yep I couldn't agree more. Hard line Remainers were as much responsible for the Brexit that we got as the hard Brexiteers. If Labour had the common sense to realise that this was a national issue beyond one election cycle and that May's negotiated outcome best reflected the referendum- but instead they chose to play party politics.

[@diabl2master]

As much as I disagree with her politics, she is the only conservative PM in these past 14 years with with some integrity. People joked about her teary-eyed resignation speech, but it showed that she treated the office with the respect it deserves. If only that were the prevailing attitude in her party.

[@stephaniesnape6787]

Such intelligent conversations. A joy to listen to. Thank you.

[@bobalopadus8901]

Very tactful of Rory to phrase his final question so broadly. Very much sounds like a student asking a teacher why they are able to move on when the student themselves can't. You can see the admiration he has throughout

[@hgfdshtrew8541]

shame he was, and still is, terminally incapable of addressing the fundamental issues within his own belief system that, unfettered, have created the situation which alienated him.

[@edvigq]

You have hit on something special with this podcast. Demonstrating our commonality so we can listen to our differences is what is missing from politics.Well done and more please.

[@david1731048]

She's now a back bencher, nothing to lose and Johnson isn't even a sitting MP anymore. Yet she still displays loyalty to him and won't criticise him.

[@thomasburns5195]

Well there is a longstanding tradition of PMs and ex PMs not criticising their direct predecessors or successors. I suppose that also applies to outliers like Johnson and Truss. That said, TM is especially careful and diplomatic.

[@Vince-l4k]

Tradition the invisible party in parliament,, voters don't vote for

[@some______guy]

I hate politics. I'm not british. I love this podcast. It's something so rare as a smart political show.

[@maryann2970]

If you like this, you might also like Lawfare, the Bulwark, or Pod Save America if you haven't tried those.

[@DoñaRatona]

Hello there 👋

[@spooony2714]

It's frustrating that we only have these frank and in depth conversations after the political careers are basically over.

[@shaunashton5434]

If Rory had stood in my Labour heartland he'd have had my vote. Our politicians used to build bridges before we fell down this sinkhole of US style divisive politics. My vote will never count in my home town. I know I'm an outlier as I don't want to vote for a party, but a decent person. But we can improve our collective lot with more than our vote. Learning to debate and build understanding is a great great start. Subscribed. Alastair is equally communicating well from his point of view too.

[@michelebaffo5741]

You're exactly right. Hang in there with the rest of us!

[@shaunashton5434]

Been hanging on for 30 years of voting age :P @@michelebaffo5741

[@garyheald4704]

I read Rory’s book recently, ‘Politics on the Edge’ and it left me with a deep admiration for the highly intelligent and articulate man who wants things to be done properly and fairly. His example here about Liz Truss wanting a 10 point plan by Friday amplifies the problem with modern superficial and populist politics (ignoring the blatant lies, for a moment)! In a number of places in the book he mentions having more in common with Labour views: He was a member of the party year’s ago. When he met with the previous ministers of state for prisons his views aligned best with the Labour minister and his approach. His only sticking point was the intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan (having spent many years there). I had the same thought, wishing that he would stand for Labour and he would get my vote. In any party he would make a great leader and PM! This was a brilliant interview.

[@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme]

I am in my 50's and ever since I have been able to vote the 'my vote will never count in my home town' has been true. There are a small number (less than 100) seats that decide the election and you either live there or don't. We need PR like every other developed country in the world.

[@shaunashton5434]

@@I_Was_Chrispy_Kreme for what it's worth I do piush for #makevotesmatter and proper PR (Not the AV nonsense) - change is possible. Just needs that majority to be aware that change IS possible. Change the rules of the game, change the way the game is played, and eventually change the nature of the players. Works in sports, business, and family.. so why not politics..

[@juancasanova8434]

As a fundamentally socialist person and somebody who really doesn't align with Tories at all, I never thought I'd find Theresa May so likeable as after watching this. The moment she said: "... it can be dangerous because in a sense it helps to fuel the populism and polarization of politics that we see today, and it tends to encourage the thinking that there are easy answers to what are often very complex problems..." which is almost a mantra for me, that a lot of problems in human life come from looking for easy answers to difficult problems... I didn't think I'd hear a recent UK primer minister say that, and there she said it. I did always feel she was handed an impossible job and presented as a sacrifice for the tories; and I still would never vote Tory and disagree in lots of things with her. But this whole conversation made me feel that indeed the problem STRONGLY comes from polarization, the way the media works today and the importance of popularity. And what we need is more discussions like this. It's just sad that I don't think this is going to happen.

[@patrickdemarcevol]

I'm new to this channel and all away from the South of France, and as a Frenchman, I find it extremely interesting. I never thought that Theresa May was partly human! Will recommend it to my UK friends over here and out there in the world. Great discovery.

[@OneAndOnlyMe]

This is great, we need more long form interviews. Good to see her more relaxed here too. Too often people forget that politicians are human too.

[@rjmacf0015]

It’s easy to think everyone lacks integrity. In fact you are correct that even where you might disagree there isn’t any doubt many people are fundamentally trying to do the right thing. It’s a minority who sadly attract the spotlight of superficial media attention seeking behaviour.

[@ChrisHopkinsBass]

The DUP saw Brexit as a means to destroy the Good Friday Agreement

[@AntSudbury-tv3we]

The DUP ,want the troubles ,to come back ,

[@davy_K]

I believe that they had a fantasy of a hard border with the RoI/EU and were blinded by that. They may also have thought that Dublin would be compelled to build it under direction from Brussels. Some ultra hardliners like the TUV stated that is what should have happened. To say that has backfired is an understatement.

[@jaseayathorai3762]

A great retrospective, reflective analysis and an enjoyable listen. So refreshing listening to Theresa May who is such a mature politician. However, we cannot forget the media’s obsession with her shoes!!

[@basblijdorp6735]

Nice interview and discussion very polite and friendly. I’m astonished to hear that conservatives like May can’t still see the fundamental failures of Brexit. As long as British leading politicians can’t look back honestly and openly at what went wrong. The road to improvements will not be found.

[@thegrumpygeordie9007]

I imagin its hard unless you take a step back. Wood for the trees and all that.

[@nostorystagnates-ernieboxa5312]

Failures? I remember fake economists coming to town halls and warning of the immediate collapse of the British economy against the euro...didn't happen. In fact, prior to the globalist release of the China virus England (most of the other parrts of the UK would have gladly jumped in bed with Brussels). I remember the asshole obama coming over and trying to interfere in the election and failing as he always did. I remember the Germans and the French riots in the streets as the blame for illegal immigration rightly fell on Merkel and Macron. I know that the recent elections in Europe have seen the rise of right of centre parties as the local people have experienced the horrors of the corrupt Schengen policy. I know that countries as liberal as Sweden, Denmark and Holland have turned their backs on this globalist cabal. These two? Just talking heads in a bubble...remember Brexit joined the middle class with many northern working class communities against the useful idiots in London and the cities.

[@nostorystagnates-ernieboxa5312]

@@JupiterThunder Totally agree...and it took the China Virus to boost the corrupt EU

[@Critic224]

I am sure they see it … they just can’t say it publicly!

[@bryangeake5826]

@@JupiterThunder The EU is not a superstate, the founding treaties do not allow for a centralised governmental entity a 'fascist' state requires, the EU Commission is a Civil Service equivalent all the power is in the EU Parliament, with directly elected MEPs. Show me any past fascist state that had one and free elections? There have been none. You totaly misscharacterise the EU, it is a pluralist allinace of states, Hungary and Poland are almost nationalistic Hard Right, but they are part of an allinace that will prevent the EU from becoming a facist superstate or anything like one! Take Ireland or Germany for example, both are pluraist centralist democracies with power of veto! The EU is not facsistic or will, as structured, ever likely to become that type of entity!

[@tellee]

What an AMAZING podcast and interview! They (all the previous prime minisyers who are still alive) should be MADE to do this!

[@banjobear1666]

Fascinating interview - really enjoyed that.

[@inghell]

I don't agree with her politics but I do have a lot of respect for her.

[@Kaleemofadia]

Open and frank interview, refreshingly honest. A rare breed of a politician that is respected across the political spectrum.

[@andythompson7456]

Britain's last (but hopefully not final) serious and thinking Prime Minister. A flashback to those halcyon days when, even though you disagreed with a senior politician, you could at least respect them.

[@rory4605]

You probably also believe orange squash is an acceptable drink to get you hammered on a night out.

[@lukasmadrid1945]

If you can respect theresa may then you're a bigger joke than she is.

[@mediolanumhibernicus3353]

She was a vacillating opportunist who jumped on any passing bandwagon, and threw her principles out the window to obtain the leadership.

[@mediolanumhibernicus3353]

@vgolovu987 Could somebody please translate this 'comment' into English?

[@DJWESG1]

How hard did she have to think about austerity?? It was a 'tough choice' afterall.. If me and you killed hundreds of thousands of people and offered up the defence 'it was a tough choice', what do you think the charge sergeant would say to the CPS?

[@zeddeka]

Rory and Theresa May woukd have done well to have read Denis Healey's autobiography. He discussed the battles within the Labour Party in the 70s between the pro and anti europeans and said on such an emotive issue it was absolutely futile to try and carve a path down the middle. Nobody would ever accept it. That is the mistake that Rory and Theresa May made with their deal.

[@jimmyjohnstone5878]

Tony Blair would just repeat the lies about weapons of mass destruction.

[@blumousey]

What a great podcast, thank you so much!

[@yeahcat7509]

Excellent quality of political conversation. It’s refreshing to hear. An insightful and genuine conversation. I disagree with the politics but I admire the woman and it’s great to find the reasoning behind her decision-making.

[@SigmundJaehn]

Her inability to say anything positive about Blair/Brown or negative about Johnson/Truss/Sunak tells you all you need to know about how she really feels about being serious and doing the right thing.

[@calumgrant290]

Indeed. Just another ideologue allergic to the truth

[@sw9618]

Well said.

[@sunilaswani9124]

All it tells you is that she is still an MP.

[@sw9618]

@@sunilaswani9124 But not in government. And if she’s trying to market herself as “above it all” specifically political power, she’s unable to critique those on her own side who wanted her out for the purposes of power.

[@ferociousfrankie]

She's still in government.

[@eduardoescuderogaleron2061]

Thanks to Rory for the explanation about the parents of Brown and May. I am Spanish and I would have never understood it. Really appreciate you take us into account. ❤❤

[@MetalCooking666]

The biggest lie about Brexit was one that hardly gets mentioned now - that all the talk of economic dangers was just scaremongering because we could “be like Norway and Switzerland”. This ignored the fact that Norway and Switzerland had to comply with EU laws without having a say in them and had to accept free movement of people. So the leave camp campaigned on the basis of a soft Brexit in order to broaden Brexit’s appeal but then moved the goalposts by insisting that this wasn’t a real Brexit with slogans like “leave means leave”.

[@normasarsby1350]

I recall the Barking by-election, I worked as a nurse in the area and the election trucks telling illegal immigrants to go home. I suffered significant racial abuse travelling to and from work despite being a resident here for over 30 years.

[@user-lr4ct2ff8y]

I’m not a fan of politics but finding content very interesting, it’s like the crouch podcast but for politics, Rory is a revelation

[@richhogg8074]

She was atrocious home secretary and no better as PM, the way she treated the cops as home sec was disgusting

[@stumatthews3696]

This was genuinely excellent 👏🏻

[@DoriZuza]

Rory thank you for the clarifications for international listeners. If someone could correct the (autogenerated) subtitles, that would be great. Especially in the few moments when the participants are talking over each other. Thank you for the great discussion.

[@TheKievKen]

I follow this podcast on Amazon Music and it makes the miles roll by with some absorbing and often contentious issues up for frank dissection. Saying that, having the visual aspect, as we do on KZbin, adds that extra something in the form of body language. TM’s physical response to some questions was more revealing than the words she used. She’s just so comfortable with rhetoric that really the only way to know what she’s really thinking, is to watch for visual clues; the facial expressions, including micro-expressions and the body positioning and arms movements. It definitely adds a dimension that is missing with just audio. Anyway, great podcast 👍🏼 Thought provoking and sometimes a bit out of left field (maybe not surprising given AC’s background).

[@redrev674]

Trump was unhappy with Germany in particular because the US was basically providing their security while Germany was enjoying a big trade surplus with US while buying Russian gas. Pretty simple

[@davecap2641]

Wonderful to people with opposite points of view disagreeing agreeably, really enjoyed it well done.

[@22BAANA22]

It has become so rare to see politicians politely debating one another

[@bradwhiteuk]

I found her answer telling when asked to explain why she believes the Tories deserve to win the next GE. It was to describe what SHE believes are Conservative values. Not this PM's values. Not this cabinet's values. HER OWN personal idea of Tory values. This completely ignores the fact that she is a failed-PM-now-backbencher, who no longer has any meaningful power over governmental policy-making. Nor does she have any real influence over the wider direction that the party will be heading.

[@daviddevoy5966]

May's total disregard and contempt for the wishes of the peopleof Scotland puts her into the same box as Thatcher for me. It's part of the reason I could never vote Tory as a Scot.

[@catgladwell5684]

I can't respect any Remainer who talked constantly of "delivering" Brexit, or of "giving the British people the Brexit they voted for"as though we all had. She infuriated me.

[@edward1591]

THis is so important - we used to have extended 1-1 interviews when Brian Walden was broadcasting, and they allowed proper discussion and debate (and argument!). We hardly ever allow ourselves the time these days, and even Today limits interviews to a series of soundbites. Whilst I admire May for being here, she is a) selling a book and b) yesterday's leader. What we need is for Sunak and Starmer to come on this programme and have their beliefs and policies properly dissected.

[@FoobsTon]

She's a back bench MP. That's not "in government".

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

I'm sorry, but the fact that she thinks that after EVERYTHING the Tory party has put the UK through over last few years it still deserves to be the government makes me lose any respect I'd accumulated for her throughout this interview. Insanity and lies.

[@InteriorDesignAnderson]

Mrs May is still a sitting MP for the Conservative party and is not about to create a headline by bad mouthing them in the run up to an election. It would be like the CEO of a large company saying that their company is crap. We all know the Conservatives don’t deserve to be in power, but I still have tremendous respect for May, everyone has to toe the party line occasionally.

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

@@InteriorDesignAnderson I don't care if she's a sitting MP or not, in fact that's part of the problem. You can't write an entire book about accountability and abuse of power and how that's leading to democratic backsliding, conduct a 80 minute interview professing how terrible those things are, then in the same breath state that the Tory party DESERVES to win the next election. She looses all credibility I'm afraid, she is in fact enabling the very cancerous rot that is eating away at our democracy that she's apparently calling out.

[@libertas3830]

​​@@InteriorDesignAndersonAnd that is exactly why her book is a complete waste of time, given that she does not feel able to honestly and directly address the most important issue that faced the nation (and her party) during her premiership. Her rushed delivery and garbled simplistic/formulaic answers were annoyingly reminiscent of her persona throughout her whole career, latterly including her opportunistic progress within an utterly immoral party where the only way to become a leader was by repeatedly placate the likes of Farage, entryist UKippers, the loons of the ERG etc. Characterising such populism and ready resort to lies as 'just politics' demeans politics by normalising the abandonment of morals as inevitable to political success. Such behaviour is not admirable leadership but evidence of a willingness to do anything in the pursuit of power and personal advancement. I can only excuse her on the basis that she is clearly not all that bright and her successors were much nastier, which is faint praise.

[@philipmulville8218]

I thoroughly enjoyed these interviews with Theresa May. What an impressive person and woman she is. ❤

[@ragpud]

“We never did that”, about finding policies to fill newspaper columns. I literally heard a podcast today where Harriet Harman had to find a policy solely because the was “a gap on the grid”.

[@peterclarke3020]

The whole Brexit thing is a great shame, it’s going to leave the UK badly affected for years to come. May should have tried to offer a second vote on it - the vote was always too close to be safe.

[@justinneill5003]

Theresa May is a conviction politician who didn't always get things right but is at least guided by her conscience, rather than the self-interest and personal career aspirations we have seen since. In the aftermath of the referendum, when she was fairly uncompromising in her determination to see Brexit through, I did wonder if she was taking that stance to over-compensate for having supported "Remain," in the eyes of the Brexit-voting public and the Europhobes in her party. At the time I was deeply frustrated with that approach, for example ruling out our continued membership of the Single Market and Customs Union almost from day one. I still believe that wasn't necessary; there are obvious precedents for being in, or having access to both without being in the EU itself, yet that scenario was not covered on the hopelessly inadequate and simplistic binary question on the ballot paper. That left Brexit open to interpretation (soft vs hard Brexit) and after winning the referendum, the "hard" Brexiteers also believed they had won the right to have their own interpretation placed on it. Despite the country being almost split down the middle with a 52/48 result, the government behaved as though 48%of the population no longer existed, and missed an opportunity to bring the country together by insisting on a hard version of Brexit. And taking that opportunity would not have defied democracy, because we would still have left the EU but taken a different approach to the matter of the Single Market and Customs Union, neither of which were specifically mentioned on the ballot paper. My hope now is that the Labour Party will take a more nuanced view on those issues as they rebuild our relationship with the EU as promised, and in light of the fact that in the last poll I saw on the subject, 58% now believe Brexit was a mistake.

[@jonathanbrowne7213]

Theresa May doesn't show any bitterness about the betrayals. She knows that what Americans say about Washington DC is also true of Westminster: "If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog."

[@henryjgray]

Only just found this podcast after audiobooking Rory's book, I am politically immature and wanted to get better educated but concerned at the vast amount of utter rubbish that is out there. This pair appear to be a great foil for each other and defintely a place to start that education. I think that Theresea May has been vilified but actually she was the last decent conservative leader that the country has had. Very brave of Theresa to be on this podcast but also a breath of fresh air from the usual Piers Morgan bullshit type 'interviews' where the 'interviewer' just shouts and doesn't let anyone speak.

[@andrewlloydcraven2005]

As a labour voter and not a massive fan of May, I have upmost respect for her as a parliamentarian.

[@johnkelly9160]

Rory Stewart what a great brain. We need to use his insights far more. When you listen to TM as a serious accomplished politician how did Boris or Liz truss ever get to be in charge. We are a country that needs an adult in charge.

[@denismichaeljames]

She is caring and has integrity towards her voters… I’m sure. But she got things wrong. Wind-rush and Grenfell, not her finest moments. But, she was far more honest than Johnson. Cannot understand why she wasn’t more furious with Boris. Is she expecting him back? Shock Horror.

[@moinicholas3828]

Thank you for your clarifications for international listeners :)

[@Sean006]

A real lady and an underappreciated politician.

[@mars2100]

Just watched this, how wonderful, thoughtful debate, if only more could do this.

[@alistairthompson1491]

Absolutely Brilliant podacat once again. Would absolutely love to see cameron on here

[@aperson22222]

After all these years I still don’t understand. The more I think about it, the more perplexed I become. She’s currently telling interviewers that she saw herself as trying to navigate a center ground between two extremes. At this she failed because the two “extremes,” in her postulation, united against her. One group thought that voting down her deal would secure no deal, the other thought it would stop Brexit. Had either believed the other was right, it would have supported her as the lesser of two evils. The former group had far more Tories. The latter had a handful (fewer as the saga went on and many of them crossed the floor) but it was the former that were breaking down party discipline with impunity. As Tory leader it was her responsibility to get them to toe the line. The latter group was mostly opposition MPs, she should not have counted on them to throw her a lifeline by voting to enable something they didn’t want anyway. She didn’t even try to win them over, not really, not till it was much too late and she was a sad little lame duck. She ruled out No Brexit but not No Deal. That didn’t win over the No Brexit crowd because they didn’t believe her. And why should they? A prime minister hadn’t looked this weak since the Norway Debate. Worse, it meant the No Deal crowd had no reason-none!-to come around to her deal. They need just wait her out and the prize would fall into their lap. She should have done it the other way around: Vote for my deal or I cancel Brexit. No second referendum, whose result would have been as inconclusive as the snap election. Just a straight-up revocation of Article 50. She had it in her power. By the end it was the _only_ action in her power. The ERG folks would have had to take her seriously. The DUP would have been in a position that would have made it impossible to oppose her. She loses a few Remainer Tories, but that would be offset; Labour had enough Brexiteers that they wouldn’t all vote for a de facto revocation. Corbyn could never have commanded that much unity if he’d tried, and I’m not at all sure he would have; I can see a lot of Labour MPs abstaining en masse, and Corbyn comes off looking like he’s the one who doesn’t know which way is up. May wins big and cements her place in history as the one who steered the ship through the storm into a safe harbor. Nor is this hindsight. I sensed this was true at the time, though I had yet to work through all the details of different scenarios. I just wish she could have seen it!

[@docastrov9013]

That ignores that May going to the country on a Rejoin platform against Corbyn on a Brexit platform - she'd have lost.

[@aperson22222]

@@docastrov9013 Why would that have happened?

[@anthonyyoung9580]

As prime minister she was duplicitous and didn't honour the referendum. In other words she was totally useless and not what the country needed or deserved. Politicians ignore the will of the people at their peril. That's why ultimately the tories got rid of her.

[@Plumduff3303]

Hi quality interviews fantastic

[@davidlewis6464]

I have only just discovered this channel and it’s taken over my feed. Proper, grown up, intelligent (and at times humorous) debate.

[@harml3ss28]

Loved this long form discussion. Well done all.

[@kcmorris4875]

AC is quite annoying at times, I think he forgets he is supposed to be interviewing someone and it's not a podcast just about HIM! Thank god for RS.

[@jackiespurr8184]

Well done x

[@malloryemclaren]

STRONG, STABLE, ORDERLY. 😅 I respect May personally, in all seriousness.

[@tekfes9815]

As remainer,I am still angry Jeremy Corbyn for not backing her deal and ended up with ...

[@HappyStudentClub]

Second time watching this one; it really is delightful! 👏🏻💝😎

[@rickmartin5132]

The £ dropped overnight from 1.47 to 1.07 and Brexit robbed me of my retirement nest egg! I am still livid and now have to work till I drop I am 71. Should have been a super majority.

[@danyoutube7491]

It shocked me that so many people wanted to vote Leave, but until my brother and I spoke to them my own parents thought Leave would benefit our future job prospects (mine and my brother's and sister's)! Madness.

[@tombblades]

I whole heartedly believe that were May not Prime Minister during a crisis like Brexit was, then she would have been a great Prime Minister.

[@Eb-or]

!?

[@1967deek]

Not me

[@oldschool3670]

You need to change your medication

[@Mircose]

She lacks many qualities necessary to achieve the "great" level. Her worst characteristic is being inhuman, which in my opinion goes against the idea of being "great".

[@PMMagro]

She is unelectable for a start. She showed her weakness already as a home secratary. Not an easy job that though so good way to learn becoming PM.

[@MatthewCyUK]

This is brilliant.

[@garthly]

As a lifetime labour supporter, I think Alastair should be a bit more understanding of the position of his guest, and not try to score cheap points. Blair has got a lot to answer for, too.

[@truth7x77]

Thank God there are people like Theresa May in politics - a true public servant at heart, with a desire to serve the public good rather than self

[@dingbell5498]

An explanation of how politicians won’t accept a democratic vote, for the best interest of the country. Still fighting the past

[@RingosMate]

The day I felt most ashamed of being English was seeing May holding hands with Trump!

[@cathalduffy1618]

Grow up.

[@PointNemo9]

The British PM is in no position to insult the US President, the former is effectively a subordinate of the latter.

[@countfosco8535]

Yes. One of many low points in Theresa May's career.

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

@@cathalduffy1618 Oh, come on. That whole meeting was just awful.

[@petercresswell5402]

Interesting interview, but on many occasions when referring to those that followed her into Number 10, or current policy or Government failings or the election it did feel like one of those sports interviews where a player is asked about the current international manager......bland and unwilling to speak the truth. Perhaps an example of why the best political interviews are those with the actors who've left the stage, John Major for example.

[@coldphinger]

As she's running for Parliment again and there's still a chance howver remote that she could hold a senior postition in the party. Right now, she can't burn her bridges. You'll have to wait for here to retre befoee publishing here memoirs and true feelings.

[@wayneford2481]

BREXIT WAS NON BINDING as he knew it was a stupid idea he could have said that is not what will happen.

[@maxding5692]

May showing off more personality than she has during her entire political career

[@catmonarchist8920]

She hated expressing emotion in office so it checks out.

[@alexm7310]

Excellent. Thank you

[@mattsymonds9652]

I just get the impression that Theresa never lies. We need more of that in Politics immediately.

[@EllieD.Violet]

She may not deliberately lie - but she's rather daft. Interpreting an *advisory* referendum the way she did was close to criminal. People might have voted differently or at all had they known it was not just a sort if opinion poll. Had she been honest she would have had the 'advisory referendum' confirmed by another one with a proper label. Other than that, I as an EU citizen 🇪🇺 think Brexit was great for us EU27.

[@ArthurBurston-lm9oj]

Valuable podcast in this trying world

[@jankench1731]

A great link for those studying politics. May was the last of the great leaders of the Conservative Government. Considering who came after her that is no surprise. Her downfall was her party not supporting her. Great respect to her.

[@williamhicken1206]

May had a lost prime ministry but she seems decent, intelligent and sincere. It is notable that she has come out unembittered by her experiences and has kept on working in government.

[@tapele5987]

She was the best PM of the last long and terrible conservative government IMO

[@mattslim2775]

Theresa comes across very genuine here

[@heliotropezzz333]

She has announced she would not stand again since this interview. She seemed so certain here that she would stand again. I wonder what it was that changed her mind.

[@caitlingreen391]

Not sure if this is entirely correct, however I think she stood down from Parliament because she wanted to devote more time to issues outside of her constituency, like combatting modern slavery.

[@robparker1742]

It really pains me to say this as a left winger but she's so ordinary I actually find her personable and do admire her sense of duty

[@Gary-oh5vw]

Great seeing grown up people from different sides of the political landscape having a great discussion. They should show this in House of Commons for reference of treating people with respect.

[@trippymchippy8586]

May is a strange creature but I dislike her quite a bit less than most of her cabal.

[@Adipsia1]

She's not congruent. She's unhappy in her skin. She was always a good manager, but far from being a good leader.

[@trippymchippy8586]

@@Adipsia1 Fair comment :)

[@richardyoung4888]

I find this frustrating, not just with Theresa May but with lots of people on the wonderful The Rest is Politics and elsewhere. The EU referendum went the way of the leave campaign was above all because the leave campaign was a continuous stream of outdated Empire regretting inspirations, other false nostalgias, rhetoric that emphasised guesswork over detailed knowledge-based analysis and a continuous stream of lies from quite a wide range of articulate people in it for their own personal benefit. None of this was put to Theresa May, she was allowed to get away with the simplistic view of "well 52% voted for it and that's that." Even dedicated remainers like Keir Starmer stick with that line.

[@paulodefreitas9632]

Completely agree I don’t think that she was pushed enough on the fact that almost all of the leave slogans were lies and xenophobic I should know I experienced it

[@ajsctech8249]

Good description of the reasons for Brexit.

[@lickmyshoe182]

Yeah they’re right. It’s really that simple. We voted for it, they have to do it. Can you image if Labour win the next election 52% to 48% but the tories refused the vacate number 10 because the gap wasn’t big enough 😂 Of course they had to do it, no choice in the matter.

[@richardyoung4888]

Well now you touch on another problem with it. We are a representative democracy. We elect representatives to take decisions on our behalf in parliament. Our representatives also, under our party based democracy, form governments. We expect them to take all decisions on our behalf, using their own best judgements. The election of these representatives is managed in our election processes, using the inadequate first past the post system. It was foolish in the extreme to pass one of the most complicated decisions faced by our representatives back to the voters. It was another massive failure by the Conservative government during its quite amazingly disastrous 13 years in power. A simple majority on this complicated question was almost meaningless but it has led to historic levels of self-inflicted damage, doubtless to the satisfaction of those wishing we still had an empire. I just want those responsible to be held to account. Defeating them in the coming general election would be just the start. (I say this as a life long holder of centre-right views, with a few leftist sympathies in areas such as the health service and care services.)

[@lickmyshoe182]

@@richardyoung4888 I’m not arguing about any of that and I agree with you on the most part. However, we were told and it was sold as a binding - ‘We’ll implement the result’ - referendum. That was their decision and didn’t parliament vote on giving us the vote? I think they were overly confident on the remain vote and obviously didn’t expect us to vote leave and have spent the last 8 years trying to avoid doing what they told us they would do. I don’t really understand their reasoning but if you sell it as a binding vote, it has to be one.

[@simonjamesd1010]

Great interview and a fascinating and modest lady. I was getting increasingly frustrated with Alistair's little jibes, and for someone who says how he is anti populist, he doesn't half go on about himself and Tony blair.

[@danyoutube7491]

What's that got to do with populism?

[@sbwords]

I wish Campbell would shut up and allow the guest to talk. He can’t stop scoring points and putting words into people’s mouth.

[@williambrown5966]

Brilliant. Well managed Did not realised , May is a lovely person

[@philright8197]

The discussions have been very good and informative. They would be even better if Rory Stewart would make eye contact with TM when he’s asking the questions, and if Alastair Campbell would stop making schoolboy jokes and then looking off camera for the approval of the technicians.

[@AlexFlanderzzz]

Actually, while slightly in agreement with your comment, I’d like to propose an even deeper analysis for those of us who like watching these hosts in action. I think there is more than just a surface level reason for AC and RS teaming up to record- yes they are both experienced political heavyweights, but they’re giving away more about themselves re their tangents and forming arguments. It’s interesting that Rory takes his time to formulate a question, and Alistair seems to spin and play the joker. Rory is clearly too far thinking to have appealed to your average voter who wants instant responses to difficult questions. That’s why he doesn’t make eye contact. Alistair makes his schoolboy jokes because he plays off the idea that he’s the man who has single-handedly spun a labour landslide, a yes to war, and a Blair legacy that some Brits are still hypnotised by. Whether you agree with AC or not- which I don’t- I respect the fact that he is a behemoth of media and only those in the HoC at the time realise the sheer size.

[@rjmacf0015]

@@AlexFlanderzzznice considered response. There is no need for snide comments about the guests or hosts. Rarely here you’ve found a room full of adults. The UK needs to return to its tradition of educated discussion and come to compromise as a means of solutions that matter. Sadly since Brexit we have seen the rise of morons in government who are fundamentally incapable of speaking with honesty and integrity.