Rory Stewart Attempts to Explain the History of Israel-Palestine in 10 Minutes

[@restispolitics]

From a TRIP point of view, it is important to hear and listen to as many different perspectives as possible. Find some of our other videos on the matter here: - A View From a Liberal Israeli: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6LEqYyHptKtf8kfeature=shared - The Palestinian Perspective: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6XWhaZ5e92lhKsfeature=shared

[@knyazhefilms2154]

This is the worst explanation I ever heard. Facts are wrong , nuances are missing and twisting the story. Who started the war in 1948? Who accepted UN proposal about two states and who did not in 1948? When PLO was created? How “occupation” appears after 1967 and not before1967 when it was under Jordan / Egypt control? Why new arab state was not created during 20 years of such control ? Your “great explanation” somehow forgot to mention those issues.

[@strongaesthetics]

@@knyazhefilms2154you‘re totally right, I mentioned it somewhere below. Thank you for pointing it out.

[@MaxTom-cx8ur]

What do you mean by a TRIP point of view? Googled but couldn't find an explanation!

[@cazche270]

@@MaxTom-cx8ur Have you seen the name of the podcast...?

[@MaxTom-cx8ur]

@@cazche270 hahaha doh! Thanks

[@IrishTechnicalThinker]

From someone who is from Belfast and knowing what sectarianism can do to communities and how evil operates. I sympathise with all those innocent people. On both sides.

[@whitetroutchannel]

its grim mate, thou the middle east well out dates our issues its still mental, could you imagine howitzers pounding the shankill or falls to flush out the uvfers or ra

[@PoldarkGodzilla]

But it’s easy to condemn hamas for killing babies and children ! But the left seems to deflect from that , and sounds like trump and says I sympathise with both sides … sad and chilling

[@peterc9568]

Islamic extremism is far worse than Christian extremism.

[@artseosamhogriobhta]

wow some fine banality and platitude. Tell me, do you wish they could all just get along?

[@peterc9568]

@@artseosamhogriobhta not whilst the parties of God are in charge. Cough cough, Hamas, cough cough Zionism.

[@BrianSwatton]

As a committed "Not Tory" voter for 40 odd years, I alarmingly find myself thinking again how good it would be to have Rory as PM. Well informed, thoughtful, nuanced and realistic, here as ever. I probably don't agree with some of his political views, but I do see intelligence, integrity, and good motives. It's usually interesting listening to you both.

[@rhydderc127]

Crazy to think he’s what they could have had, instead they chose Bojo the clown, Truss… at least the mask finally came off and now the country can see what they’re really about.

[@philipmulville8218]

I couldn’t agree more.

[@ibablo]

OMG!! I was just about to type same comments. (I'm not a Tory voter though and I've never been) Thank you so much for articulating my thoughts even much better. Peace ✌🏽

[@paulorocky]

Guys like Rory will never get further than preselection. Honesty and intelligence are not qualities valued in the political sphere. Backstabbing, sucking up to donors and media moguls, looking good on TV, those are the qualities that get you far.

[@Weakeyedominant]

It's why he never would have made it as PM.

[@trevleahy4975]

THank you for sharing. Never was there a more critical need for facts, trust, truth and transparency.

[@andrew_owens7680]

OK, here's a quote for you, from one of the founders of Zionism. "We may tell them whatever we like about the innocence of our aims, watering them down and sweetening them with honeyed words to make them palatable, but they know what we want, as well as we know what they do not want. They feel at least the same instinctive jealous love of Palestine, as the old Aztecs felt for ancient Mexico , and their Sioux for their rolling Prairies. " - Ze'ev Jabotinsky 1923 Zionism has always required ethnic cleansing and genocide. If this was the 1840s, we wouldn't blink, but we live in a world of humanitarian and international laws, many of them created for the benefit of Jews.

[@hurrichad8871]

hes totally biased.

[@fiddlefancier]

Hi Rory, I admire your work so much. I’m so glad you are educating us on the Middle East.

[@asnieres32]

If you think Rory is educating you you need to change schools. I stopped listening after he said the Arabs attacked Israel starting the six day war. Anyone honestly discussing this topic knows that Israel launched a "preemptive" war.

[@PosthumousAddress]

​@asnieres32 Indeed. I'm a supporter of Israel, and there will be arguments over whether Nasser's expulsion of UN peacekeepers from Sinai and blocking Tiran, were sufficient casus belli, and indeed whether Nasser actually intended to start a war. But it is not disputed that the actual start of the fighting was Operation Moked (Focus) of the Israeli Air Force attacking Egyptian air fields. Even as an Israeli supporter I was startled when he said it started with an Arab attack. He seems to have knowledge that is slightly above the average Joe in the street, but not well read, not having a detailed grasp of basic facts

[@hurrichad8871]

you are a dumb dumb

[@Namaerica]

Thank you for explaining such a difficult history so lucidly. My heart aches for every innocent involved.

[@willowbell3756]

He explained nothing, read your history. There was no real states then and Israel was tiny and the Jews were not always persecuted, it depended on the dynasty. Also Britain and the Zionists including bin Gurian, can't remember spelling, did not lift a finger to help. The first camp was set up in the 1920s, Jews like Rothschild had lots of money. Forgot but Britain killed loads of Jews on the boats too.

[@willowbell3756]

He excluded the whole antique history.

[@leambayu5988]

@najmaalikhan watch the video "RIght wing gov a gift to israel settlers" 5:82 a jew talk about to kill a billion people who oppose jews, decapitating other tribes Thbe current generation of Jews are barbaric and uncivilised.

[@binsarm9026]

@@willowbell3756for a 10 minute TOTAL summary, it was sufficiently touched on for people to explore further on their own - any more would start going into "biblical claims" which would be less useful in understanding the *present* situation.

[@JonathanBarnes]

No it isn't difficult only your tiny brains ability to think is. Judaism predates Islam by 1000 years and the original peiople living in Palestine/Israel were Jews. Because Islam is a pathetic violent ideology based on a Jew killing child raping warlord called Mohammed the Jews in Israel were displaced by the Palestinians. All Religious buildings in Israel predate the 7th century and the formation of an ideology the World would be better off without.

[@richardgornalle4536]

Thank you gentlemen. This discussion is exactly what I need hear. What a mess. My heart bleeds for the innocent men, women and children from both "sides" who are experiencing suffering beyond my comprehension.

[@topbanana4013]

if someone killed your family over the wk end and someone kills them people who did it. are you going to say you feel sorry for them. i dont think you will sir

[@somniumisdreaming]

I wouldn't want babies bombed.

[@danamarie8718]

@@topbanana4013The comment was about the innocent people on both sides. It was not about feeling sorry for the Hamas terrorists.

[@Stantheman848]

Iraq ? Campbell and bliar

[@VinPetrol-o5i]

Totally agree it was a balanced insight, im sure all the religious extremists will beg to differ because there indoctrinated into hate from day one! And still the innocent suffer, such a shame.

[@EastAsianCinemaHistory]

Such a relief to see/hear such a responsible and sensitive discussion on the issue. Thank you.

[@troglokev]

He left out the Sykes-Picot agreement, the McMahon-Husayn correspondence, and the contradictions between the two.

[@ivanjulian2532]

And?

[@PosthumousAddress]

​@@ivanjulian2532 The British promised everything to everyone.

[@Dougwun]

9:30 - thanks for proving Alastair’s point, I guess.

[@johnallard1]

I’ve been meaning to catch your podcasts for literally months, but this is the 1st I’ve managed - helped for me by the KZbin format! I think Alastair hit the nail on the head at the start when he says that the situation requires nuance that is lacking in mainstream media coverage. I was dimly aware that there was history, but Rory’s summary explains it very well, and I also love that he is at pains to say that other people will see things differently. It is very refreshing to have experts stating their understanding of a situation/ subject and simultaneously recognising that this is not the whole story. Thank you both.

[@DunningKrugerJnr]

I’ve always thought that the issue with Western media’s coverage of the current genocide is the lack of nuance 🙄

[@jazzwonderboy]

The mainstream media (BBC) released a radio / podcast series last year with a much more in depth, and dare I say it, nuanced history. Not to knock this, but blaming the “MSM” for our own ignorance is too easy and not actually accurate.

[@debshaw3611]

Thank you another excellent nuanced, thoughtful discussion. In a way relieved that Rory escaped the insanity of being PM. And so he now has space to think and reflect. Just wish we had more politicians like him.

[@a.x.marcus4627]

This is delightful. Thank you Mr Stewart for so much insight and for a much needed space for nuanced debate.

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

"Mr Stewart" is a war criminal and responsible for at least a million dead Iraqis and Afghanis. Him hosting a discussion on the Middle East is like Ted Bundy hosting a discussion on domestic violence.

[@formulaic78]

I wrote a book about the full history of this conflict. Rory is pretty much bang on in his history and his interpretation.

[@eranronen573]

​@formulaic78 what's the name of the book?

[@formulaic78]

@@eranronen573 It's called Bullied. I actually delisted it on amazon cos it's impossible to publicize it as a no name writer and publishers felt there was no market for an allegorical retelling of the war (I'm certain there would be if it was put on shelves but I've no control over that). If you were interested I could relist it for you though even at free.

[@marionjadon5575]

As someone who has lived in Israel for 43 years, and having developed strong connections with both Israelies and Palestinians, I found it very heartening to hear such a sensible, balanced presentation of the painful, heart breaking situation we are now in. Many thanks.

[@andrew_owens7680]

I have compassion for Israelis who are digging their place in hell by dehumanizing a quarter of the world's population. They will never lift the albatross of hatred off their backs and they were placed where they are by cynical people.

[@johngiles132]

Great explanation by Mr. Stewart. I'd been looking for a concise and clear explanation of this complicated issue, and I finally found it. Thanks.

[@ciararespect4296]

Clear as mud. Skirted over sykes picot and Balfour declaration

[@Itaivarochik]

As reliable as the BBC😂

[@theselector4733]

Not really. He left way too many important details out.

[@theliardian4723]

The Invention of the Land of Israel From Holy Land to Homeland, Shlomo Sand: "Would anyone today consider encouraging an Arab demand to settle in the Iberian Peninsula to establish a Muslim state there simply because their ancestors were expelled from the region during the Reconquista? Why should the descendants of the Puritans, who were forced to leave England centuries ago, not attempt to return en masse to the land of their forefathers in order to establish the heavenly kingdom? Would any sane person support Native American demands to assume territorial possession of Manhattan and to expel its white, black, Asian, and Latino inhabitants? And somewhat more recently, are we obligated to assist the Serbs in returning to Kosovo and reasserting control over the region because of the sacred heroic battle of 1389, or because Orthodox Christians who spoke a Serbian dialect constituted a decisive majority of the local population a mere two hundred years ago? In this spirit, we can easily imagine a march of folly initiated by the assertion and recognition of countless “ancient rights,” sending us back into the depths of history and sowing general chaos." It is incorrect that all Jews living in Israel today are descended from the Jews who lived in Judea around 70 AD. The majority of the current residents are descended from people who converted to Judaism centuries later, mostly Khazars. Incorrect is further that the Romans succeeded in expelling all Jews from Judea, as Shlomo Sand mentioned earlier, convincingly argues.

[@tamaramousley8597]

@@theliardian4723 They expelled them but many lived in the area from then on. The land was taken over by many other empires after the Roman Empire but the area was always occupied by Jews even when many people were displaced like Armenians etc. The Jews no matter where they were pushed many still stayed in the geographical area.

[@martinpidhany8278]

Thanks guys for the calm and respectful conversation . Much appreciated .

[@eveapple4928]

I’m glad Rory left frontline politics, he was too good for the swamp and this way he kept his hands clean. He’s of much greater service as a thinker, educator and advisor. That’s his real talent - to counsel and advise, using his considerable talents of being able to analyze the journey from A to B. He can see the journey both past and future, and therefore provide very useful predictions that can help to figure out the best actions to take.

[@andrewrichards9176]

Yes, but the real question is whether the people who matter would actually listen to him. Keir Starmer could do much worse than appoint him, via the House of Lords, to be his Foreign Secretary after the next election.

[@AndrewRedman01]

That's an interesting perspective. I mean, on the face of it I 100% agree... but surely on subjects as important as this, shouldn't ALL politicians be able to understand the journey from A to B, now more than ever? I sometimes wonder if there should be basic qualifications, perhaps a "license to practice" required for politicians; to ensure a base level of competence. After all, the politicians have now required that of anyone wanting to come and live in this country!

[@lawrencew3703]

Lefts right

[@geralddaish754]

Perhaps the UK political landscape would be less of a festering swamp if Rory Stewart would return to service. I think it's a tragedy that he's not our Prime Minister, or at least in the HoC. Interesting idea below of Starmer recruiting him for Foreign Secretary...

[@julietsolomon9429]

Not if he gets it wrong from the start, which he did.

[@RogueDarkAgent]

Subscribed off the back of this conversation thanks very much. Always learning 💪🏼

[@Pippi-rippi]

This podcast is my favourite. I started with the rest is history years ago and I’m only now putting faces to voices. Thank you for all your amazing work.

[@rhobatbrynjones7374]

How refreshing to have a space which acknowledges both sides in this conflict and applies an intelligent understanding in interpreting events there.

[@grrr.9998]

Can you imagine if these pair of scoundrels had applied the same efforts in their political careers as in this podcast instead of being lying, money-minded machine men?

[@ShahidKhan-ke8fe]

and factually incorrect.

[@rhobatbrynjones7374]

@@ShahidKhan-ke8fe Most summaries are. Which facts do you contest?

[@ShahidKhan-ke8fe]

@@rhobatbrynjones7374 the ones I've listed in my earlier post.

[@rhobatbrynjones7374]

@@ShahidKhan-ke8fe which can be found where exactly?

[@Pincer88]

Thank you both for such an informed, intelligent, nuanced and decent breakdown of the situation. It is badly needed in a world that looks like it is going completely berserk. Thoroughly enjoy watching/listening to the two of you from across the Channel. Sincere compliments and kind regards from the Netherlands.

[@netanelzion]

yeah actually way more balanced than many guides i have seen popping up online since the war broke out. he had the sincerity not to start his discussion in 1917,and i guess other crucial points he didnt mention were missing due to lack of time.

[@Pincer88]

@@netanelzion True. There's an entire history preceding few, if any know about of Israelites being prosecuted, mass assassinated, marginalized and even downright (attempted) eradicated. I'm also sick and tired of people who act as if Hamas were in the right: its leadership has vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, despite Israel having seceded its presence there when the peace process was still in working order. A point often conveniently 'overlooked' by apologists.

[@gp3903]

Fantastic Rory, you are a pleasure to listen to

[@ericgreene74]

My god, Rory was such a loss to UK politics... Seems like a really nice, honest and fair man. Such a shame politicians like him just have to get out.

[@fyank1]

Sadly there is no place for decent, intelligent and honest politicians like Rory in Westminster.

[@naughtynightlifeasia857]

Another self-entitled posh boy!

[@STORMDAME]

He was my MP for years and though he was a Tory, and I am very much not, I always found him to be dedicated and hard working. While I had/have many complaints against his party and their policies I don't have many against him.

[@philthewriter]

The problem when people vote for charisma over intelligence.

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

@@philthewriter You mean the scruffy liar over the nice guy?

[@JamesCarter-ok9nl]

Keep filming and recording these; they are informative and enjoyable !!!

[@lobintool]

"Enjoyable"? Really? What exactly do you enjoy about witnessing the misery of your fellow human beings?

[@JamesCarter-ok9nl]

Im talking about the podcasts @@lobintool

[@lobintool]

@@JamesCarter-ok9nl So what? Does a podcast disolve you from humanity?

[@NoLefTurnUnStoned.]

@@lobintool You should probably go and lie down dear.

[@lobintool]

@@NoLefTurnUnStoned. Care to elaborate?

[@JC-KeepSmiling]

I so wish we had serious, measured and professional people like Rory in government. Quite a few MP's could learn a lot from his morals and the way he presents himself. Keep up the good work Rory and Alastair. 💙❤

[@cynthiamartini8982]

Rory just gave a complete Ahistorical account of the region which only propagates the problem. He should learn something about it before giving a lesson full of propaganda and lies that keep circulating.

[@only1kingofsing]

Lol... Alistair Campbell and Blair ruined this country...

[@Captain2Pig]

I find Rory Stewart to be well informed and balanced. I really struggle to refund any trust or respect for alastair after the Iraq shame

[@SteveSingerFowkes]

Tories kicked Tory out Probably because he was too professional for them Says it all

[@cuebj]

They have both learned a lot since they were involved in government. Tbf, Stewart was learning on the job and realised limitations of assumptions before he was kicked out of Neo-Tory party. Almost want people like this to get life experience, go into politics to learn, leave politics to reflect and explore deeper nuances, go back into politics

[@andrewbickerstaffe4391]

Informative, clear and concice. Excellent job, thank you!

[@RFKJrforPresident-]

Appreciate the nuanced and rational discussion of this difficult topic. Happy to see that 1.3 million people have listened and wish that several billion more would…

[@youssefdirani]

I believe we should call for a referendum. The most rightful thing is a referendum made by true original land owners (Palestineans, including native Palestinean jews) and they decide the state they want. Simple. Very simple. It's not a thousands of years matter. Otherwise, the immigrants who stole the land should go back to where they came from.

[@GA-sn1hn]

That would be 1.3 millions views not viewers, watched at least 30 seconds. Sorry to be so pedantic.

[@Chiara-fh4op]

The Palestinianns were not the "original inhabitants". If the Jews had not been under attack from rhe Arabs continously they wouldn't have needed their own homeland. Also, didn't the Arabs also displace many Christians and other nationalities through their conquering phases in Europe, Near, Middle and Far East and Africa. If HAMAS had not organises so many suicide bombers then Israel and Egypt wouldn't have blocked their entry into their countries. They play victim but those in Gaza are also perpetrators of evil and horrific violence.

[@harrydestaffano565]

@@youssefdirani Hmmm, did you miss the start of the video, who were the true owners of the land, oh the Jews were the true owners of the land, said Rory! The video ignores some basic facts like the 1947 UN vote for 2 states, the 5 Arab armies who launched a genocidal war to drive the Jews in to the sea an hour after Israel declared it's independence, spoiler alert, the Arabs lost that war and lost territory too (that happens when you loose a war). The video also ignores the Jordanian annexation of the so called West Bank and Jerusalem, Jordan gave all the Arabs living their Jordanian citizenship, children received Jordanian birth certificates, whilst Egypt took control of Gaza and children born their received Egyptian birth certificates. I bet you knew none of these facts! There was no call then for a Palestinian state. Jordan and Egypt too the land. The people were Arabs, not Palestinians. That changed in 1964 when the Soviet Union, wanting to have more influence over the United States in the area, created the PLO and made an Egyptian Arafat its' leader. I bet you knew none of these facts either! The problem is most of the Arab leaders are just greedy selfish people, skimming millions for themselves and their families, holding on to power through force bribery and corruption. Hamas leadership in Qatar has a net worth of 11 Billion Dollars, mostly earned from taxes on Gazans. T

[@youssefdirani]

@@harrydestaffano565 How do you think natives considered Z people coming to historical Palestine after WWI ? Welcomed or by-force guests ?

[@maxmont21]

Very helpful and timely show. You present the issues clearly and perhaps as objectively as is possible. Thank you.

[@normanthrelfall2646]

Here is some genuine information not widely known to the world populace: The Russians became concerned about how friendly America was becoming with Israel in 1963. So they contacted Yasser Arafat who became the PLO leader in 1964. At that time there was no Palestinian nation in the so-called occupied land. The Russians brought in Yasser Arafat to work for them, in order to populate the area and to create a Palestinian nation. Jordan is 80% Palestinian where these people mostly came from, then you have Lebanon and Syria. There was no Palestinian nation prior to 1964. The Jewish people have paid for every bit of that land which they inherited. The truth is the Palestinians are occupying land which does not belong to them. There has always been a two state solution: Jordan and Israel. The Jewish people want to live in peace and are prepared to share some of their land with the Palestinians so they can live in peace. The truth is Yasser Arafat never truly wanted peace with Israel, nor do Hamas now. If they had their way they would wipe out the State of Israel as a nation. When Israel became a recognized nation in 1948 they inherited a dust ball, and they have had to work the land since that time, so that it became the fertile place it is today, exporting its goods around the world. If it was not for the Jewish people that land would still be a dust ball today!

[@Lemontea-y71]

Rory, excellent as always. More people should listen to him.

[@algoplantechnologies8231]

Thank you guys for making an honest attempt to describe the situation.

[@rachelkay8354]

First time listener. Rory is amazing. His talent of explaining extremely complicated issues into understandable lessons is epic. I will be back for more.

[@elizabethannedevaney8411]

Agreed

[@marygib2939]

Was the downfall of England when he was not voted Prime Minister. Too honest for the House of Parliament.

[@strongaesthetics]

Well, in his simplification he didn’t tell two important facts: - the offer of a two state solution right before the foundation of Israel (Arabs declined it) - neighboring Arab nations attacking the new founded state Israel in 1948 Sounds too convenient to let this out…

[@richardjoyce7198]

He also didn't mention HAGANAH, or the stern gang

[@LindseyWalton-z5d]

Yes, I concur, Rory is so eloquent and well read. Glad he left politics - excellent educator/advisor. I could listen to him for some time.

[@nicindiff]

Listened to this in the car and found it fascinating. Appreciate you can’t cover thousands of years in 10 minutes but it’s been incredibly helpful as a guide and a starting point to investigate in detail. The additional image references are very helpful too. An incredibly complex and difficult discussion with very heated views but you helped many of us understand a little better. Thank you.

[@bsahmed1]

The last paradox is that the tale of Palestine from the beginning until today is a simple story of colonialism and dispossession, yet the world treats it as a multifaceted and complex story hard to understand and even harder to solve.

[@cumbiebob]

Just love the way you can tackle such difficult topics. Wish others could have similar insights. keep it going guys

[@Stantheman848]

Ask al about Iraq?

[@rahimdeishinie3697]

The point many people are missing concerns how Israel was formed. I mean how do you go into a country as a refugee population, then form another country inside it, expecting no opposition ?

[@closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0]

The honest zionists did expect opposition. But now they have to lie so they don't lose popular support

[@karpadnechmad]

There was no country, there was a British colony

[@pennymayphilip9646]

And make the existing population into refugees.

[@FineWine_andCake]

Kingdoms of Israel and Judaea existed centuries BC, centuries before the birth of Islam. That territory has mainly been an outlier for other empiresthe tenants empire expelled the jews, but they always gave gad a presence in the region. Israel gas a greater claim to the region. Palestine was artificially created post WW1

[@rahimdeishinie3697]

@@karpadnechmad that's bullshit racist bigotry. The fact that they didn't call it a country doesn't mean human beings didn't live in it. The fact that white people colonized Ghana or Kenya doesn't mean they could have just handed it to another group of european refugees

[@johndublin346]

It's brillant having video's like this. Thank you Rory and David.

[@jellybeans4249]

Alistair*

[@rorykeegan1895]

Who's David?

[@kicka11]

@@jellybeans4249Alastair**

[@andytc4840]

Thanks David

[@AWanderingWitch]

Thank you to Alastair and Rory, for demonstrating to us what the fundamentals of a functioning democracy are. Two intelligent, informed individuals, with integrity, discussing and debating fully-formed and nuanced ideas. Agreeing and disagreeing, all the while respecting each other’s right to different political positions. We really need to get back to a place where this is happening among the leadership of this country and not just on podcasts. Perhaps then it would filter through to wider society. I agree with an earlier comment, I’m not fully aligned with Conservative politics but I would be rejoicing to have Rory as PM, not just right now, but at any point. We need leaders we can respect, whatever our stripes.

[@stephenderry9488]

Both of them reviled by their party establishments over the years for being too centrist.

[@russellwright5141]

Campbell has integrity? You're joking. Stewart does but makes bad decisions, like being on this pod with Campbell.

[@davidwright793]

So good to hear such an emotive and complicated situation discussed calmly and objectively, giving a fair analysis of historical events leading to this dreadful slaughter of so many innocent people on both sides.

[@ShahidKhan-ke8fe]

and totally inaccurate - even Israelis would say that.

[@mr.meatsoup5639]

@@ShahidKhan-ke8fe oh please do tell what are the inaccuracies?

[@Challenger160]

​@@ShahidKhan-ke8fe I would also like to know the inaccuracies you've highlighted.

[@ShahidKhan-ke8fe]

There was no STATE of Israel before the Romans. There was a KINGDOM of Israel. He completely leaves out that by the time of the Balfour Declaration around 90% of the inhabitants of Palestine were Muslim or Christian Arabs. In 1967 there was no attack on Israel by Egypt and Syria. Even Israel's supporters accept that Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt and Syria. He then goes back and talks about giving up the Mandate having just spoken about how the State of Israel was declared. Not exactly chronological. The UN did not recognise Israel, Israel applied to join the UN and it was admitted that was in the 1950s. There were no 1948 'borders', there were Armistice Ceasefire lines agreed in 1949. He skips the first Intifada in 1988 as though that wasn't important. He skips the PLO's recognition of Israel in 1988. There wasn't a Palestinian Authority in West Bank and another in Gaza. There was one Palestinan National Authority which governed both places. Neither 'emerged' they were created by the agreements between Israel and the PLO. The settlements weren't just built by settlers, they were built for the most part by the Israeli government. He completely skips the Second Intifada and goes straight to the withdrawal from Gaza. Hamas didn't take over the Gaza Strip, they won an election but they weren't recognised. He says there were then 'intifadas', the intifada had been going on for five years at that point. Hezbollah in Lebanon had nothing to do with Intifada. He leaves out Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000. He then skips 18 years of history - the massive growth of Israeli settlements which have made a two-state solution basically impossible. Absolutely appalling.@@Challenger160

[@ShahidKhan-ke8fe]

There was no STATE of Israel before the Romans. There was a KINGDOM of Israel. He completely leaves out that by the time of the Balfour Declaration around 90% of the inhabitants of Palestine were Muslim or Christian Arabs. In 1967 there was no attack on Israel by Egypt and Syria. Even Israel's supporters accept that Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt and Syria. He then goes back and talks about giving up the Mandate having just spoken about how the State of Israel was declared. Not exactly chronological. The UN did not recognise Israel, Israel applied to join the UN and it was admitted that was in the 1950s. There were no 1948 'borders', there were Armistice Ceasefire lines agreed in 1949. He skips the first Intifada in 1988 as though that wasn't important. He skips the PLO's recognition of Israel in 1988. There wasn't a Palestinian Authority in West Bank and another in Gaza. There was one Palestinan National Authority which governed both places. Neither 'emerged' they were created by the agreements between Israel and the PLO. The settlements weren't just built by settlers, they were built for the most part by the Israeli government. He completely skips the Second Intifada and goes straight to the withdrawal from Gaza. Hamas didn't take over the Gaza Strip, they won an election but they weren't recognised. He says there were then 'intifadas', the intifada had been going on for five years at that point. Hezbollah in Lebanon had nothing to do with Intifada. He leaves out Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000. He then skips 18 years of history - the massive growth of Israeli settlements which have made a two-state solution basically impossible. Absolutely appalling@@mr.meatsoup5639

[@thomashourigan5797]

Thank you for a very good explanation of this sad situation in history.Often wondered what it was all about, & just how this situation developed over time.Enjoyed your commentary, which without taking sides helped clarify the situation for me.Thank you.

[@Howling-Mad-Murdock]

First time I’ve listened to this podcast. A very good explainer for someone like me who didn’t know the roots of the present situation. It’s a real shame Rory left politics, but I understand why.

[@janedeacondeacon9832]

HE LEFT OUT THAT ISREAL HAS ILEGALY SETTLED THE WEST BANK I THINK NOW THERE 400 000 JEWS THERE SO THEY NEED TO LEAVE.

[@YusriSalleh]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXrCpKODrdVpqposi=klYn63OkuNlcFwvy

[@najmaalikhan]

You still left in the dark about this , he has left out lots details and context. He doesn't tell why the Arab countries attacked Israel. ( 1967 war) . It was in response to massive attack that Israel did on Palestinians in 1946, on the day of its inauguration. That is what triggered the Arab countries to response. And this truth was presented in a twisted way to make it look as if Palestinians did not want exist. There's more but this only comment section as it also needs supporting evidence and sources. But if I did that I would be censored.

[@FallenLegend]

You still dont know anything, in first that was an oversimplification on beneficial of israel image, because there wasn't said the keywors of displacement, occupation, apartheit... you should not think that you know anything yet dude, keep digging. Israel is work throught and through, with crimes on the scale of crimes agaisnt man kind. Israel exists because the movement of holocaust? they are doing the same agaisnt palestinians. Israel is the same as Nazis in some points!

[@Jojotonks]

@@najmaalikhan He had a limited time in which to summarise and explain the history, which he does, in a balanced and nuanced way. I think you have not fully understood his points, and I don’t understand what you can possibly mean by “this truth was presented in a twisted way to make it look as if Palestinians did not want exist.”

[@eebeegee8325]

So informative, thank you. You both delivered that with such respect and honesty. Very well done.

[@HappyCodingZX]

Thankyou Rory for showing exceptional diplomacy and skill in explaining the situation by stating simple facts and showing empathy to all sides, a true humanitarian. My wife and I had a long discussion about how history is littered with examples of groups of people believing that they are somehow chosen or ordained. By its very definition this creates a schism, and that almost inevitably leads to the suffering of innocent people. It seems to be the tragedy of humanity, and as Bob Marley said "Until the philosophy which hold one race superior and another Inferior is finally and permanently discredited snd abandoned - everywhere is war". My thoughts and prayers are with all the innocents caught up in this.

[@christopher9727]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@starloszelson4541]

Why are you being a black man into this?

[@AngeloBetrulas]

Of course, he'll retract this after constant slavering cries of "antisemite!" from the Zionist lobby! He always does, ffs!

[@aclark903]

Yeah, but God did choose the Jews. End of.

[@augusthome9860]

@@aclark903 God is man-made. Man was the puppeteer and god his puppet.

[@f1remandg]

I have returned, after watching the two of you, show sides unreversed in general. it was excellent and i will be seeking out the information, at 73 and on holiday in Portugal. fantastic video.

[@elsaforsythe2302]

Thank you for this balanced commentary; no shouting, no anger, just the facts. It's really refreshing! I've just subscribed.

[@toastertwo]

me to

[@YusriSalleh]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXrCpKODrdVpqposi=klYn63OkuNlcFwvy balance?

[@anjiedavie6792]

@@omg1699 And what are the mis-truths? There were bound to be omissions because it would have been impossible to fit in everything into a short space of time. So I'm curious about the mis-truths.

[@anjiedavie6792]

@@omg1699 Firstly, not all countries agree that Israel is enforcing apartheid. My personal belief is that the word is perhaps misleading as I wonder if this "apartheid" is more to do with security. Note that I said perhaps which means I'm open minded about it. Who started it? This particular incursion was carried out by Hamas, breaking through Israel's security, The Iron Wall, and going on a rampage of unbelievable inhumane acts of murder. But do I have sympathy for ordinary Palestinians? Yes, I do. I wish and hope for peace.

[@jibjub2121]

An excellent standard of commentary as always. I appreciate the both of you. Very difficult topic to do justice, but I think you did just that. Lots of respect.

[@YusriSalleh]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXrCpKODrdVpqposi=klYn63OkuNlcFwvy

[@westwalian1018]

Rory is very knowledgeable and smart, and the discussion was well balanced. Good work guys.

[@DroolRockworm]

I have to say I randomly clicked on this video 11 months later, didn’t expect it to be basically a reaction to those original music festival events, this was like amazingly clear headed

[@rogerwilco2]

Same here.

[@dermolado3351]

Little detail Rory missed out, which I think is also very important to note is that in 2006, the international community led by the US, pressed for democratic elections in Palestine, which Hamas decisively won. But seeing how the results were not what Israel and America had hoped for, all attempts were made to prevent Hamas from forming a government. I feel this was a missed opportunity.

[@ItigertigerI]

He omitted a lot of historical facts that do not put Israel in a good light.

[@iago9711]

Because in Hamas' charter they explicitly said that their intentions were genocidal and that they didnt want a single breathing jew left between the river Jordan and the sea. The Americans and Israelis had to essentially accept the fact that democracy in Palestine just wasn't in the cards despite the rose tinted view that Bush had about the civilizing force that democracy had.

[@dermolado3351]

@@iago9711 I often find that political organisations, whether it be the IRA, the ANC or Hamas often threaten some form of armageddon when they are trying to demonstrate how serious they are. The reality is that they often act very differently when they are in government. This is a risk that I feel America and Israel should have taken in 2006 if they were truly serious about democracy and peace in the middle east.

[@arjan2777]

@@dermolado3351 Maybe that would have been better but the Israeli live there and they are vulnerable. They are not inclined to take that kind of risks.

[@ochjim]

@@iago9711 - Actually Hamas dropped its call for the destruction of Israel from its manifesto before the 2006 election. Recent history shows that the "home of the brave" only approves of democracy when it produces governments to its liking. See Klein's The Shock Doctrine in particular for US interventions in South America.

[@petethechin]

Rory Stuart, always a pleasure to listen to him, a true gentleman and scholar.

[@JRattheranch]

Thank you both for one of the only balanced and considered opinions of this horrendous situation! I have children and many grandchildren in Israel, although I'm not Jewish! Even sadder in many ways, is the loss to the British nation of two of its best known and informative political champions! Really appreciate all that you both contribute to our world dilemma!

[@christopher9727]

Only Jesus Christ blood can cleanse us of are sins come to Jesus Christ today Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void. The Holy Spirit can lead you guide and confort you through it all Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@whenpigsfly3271]

Helen Thomas had the correct solution.

[@iknow2145]

oh yes, the british are everywhere, like an infestation.

[@geoffhead111]

you guys rock. i thought you only existed as an apple podcast which for some reason i was having difficulty accessing, now i see you exist in youtube, this is excellent i shall continue to watch as i file down the frets on my bass guitar neck, which has developed an s-bend

[@otaircarvalho5815]

My congratulations to Rory, for this outstanding presentation on such a very complex subject.

[@JFra127]

Rory and Alastair, thank you for your well rounded outline of such an incredibly complex religious, political economic and social situation. I have recommended intro people as we struggle to gain an understanding of what is happening an why in an environment where we are not attacked or yelled down for not swearing allegiance to either side or listening to completely biased positioning by supporters. Thank you for helping me to have a clearer understanding of this situation.

[@whitetroutchannel]

bot comment

[@JFra127]

@@whitetroutchannel alive and bot less. Freely expressing my opinion.

[@georgerubypoppy1063]

@@JFra127 If only Rory had had an hour, rather than a few minutes, to go into more detail, and I`m sure he would have liked to have done so. For example he briefly touched on the Balfour agreement. It`s worth delving into more deeply, and learning of the events leading up to it. If people did so I`m sure many would take a much less partisan stance than they currently do. I`m not a religious person, so I don`t pray, but I yearn to see a peaceful resolution. All the best, mate, and never stop expressing your opinion. That`s exactly what many in power want you to do.

[@VanessaVaile]

What a treat to discover this channel, an island of well informed sanity and civil discourse in a savage tempest. Subscribed. Added podcast to my daily listening queue. Thank you!

[@judiebb5106]

Me too

[@carollomax9524]

Thank you. Excellent insightful work. Rory Stewart is exceptional..

[@acelovesit]

I came off Twitter because it was impossible to speak of diplomacy, it was impossible to speak of being able to condemn Hamas and the Israeli government. I love to read and listen about history, I enjoy reading about diplomacy, but even educating myself and offering to educate others just turns into one side vs another - which is anything but diplomatic. I get the anger on both sides, I get the history and I'm willing to understand that It's a serious and very complex issue, I just wish there were more people willing to understand and learn from the past and learn from diplomats from the UN. The humanitarian issues should be the biggest focal point, innocent people always die by those in power who don't really care about them, only their own prejudices. One side you have Hamas being extreme to do the unimaginable, the other is and Israeli government going further beyond the two party state, and now collective punishment and mass murder. in the middle are innocent Israelis and Palestinians just trying to survive. It's so extreme, I just don't know if there are any solutions. I hope that there are those willing to stand up and fight for an equal society, not the destruction of one, or worse both. I got banned from the UKPolitics subreddit for talking about diplomacy and talking about how its important that language is vital when peace-making, It's what I've learned from reading UN articles and about how language is a key element to bring back some sort of justice and understanding. I hope I don't get banned her, I just feel it's so important to speak about, that not many people are willing, or able, to do.

[@tatradak9781]

Every considerate opinion is valid, not sure how you can be band from any platform.. Best to block individuals that are not on your wave lenght. They never will be. But we all increasing live in an echo chamber and this is only solved with PR Proptional Representation voting system similar to the Scottish D'Hondt voting system.. Look it up, hopefully you agree!?! This hopefully will allow all sides to have a voice

[@noitallmanaz]

Diplomacy only works when you have two sides that are willing. You cannot have diplomacy with terrorists. The palestinians allow outside terrorist groups to lead them, and these groups have only one goal - to wipe the earth free from Jews. This isn't conjecture, it is fact in which they state as much. Until the Palestinians start to govern and think for themselves, nothing will improve for them. The oppressors of the Palestinians are Hamas and Hezbollah and the Iranians/Syrians. Do you think they actually care about humanitarian causes? Give me a break.

[@kevinharding3281]

Its very frustratinf when you try to educate someone on why both are at fault and instead of listening to the History they all you all sorts of names. God forbid you say its wrong no matter what to kill infants.

[@john1703]

Some seriously "impossible" circles to square. Israel was created by decree on Arab held land in 1948. Israel believes the land is theirs by Word of God. Both sides want the other to just disappear. If Gaza is a "prison camp", they will be desperate, and desperate people do desperate things. America always seems to support Israel and Iran appears to support Palestine. This might escalate to a war between USA and Iran. Why cannot Israel be re-created in somewhere like Nevada or New Mexico, where there is a lot of spare space?

[@andydufresne4444]

Why should both be condemned ? Wouldn't you fight if some people came and occupied your homeland ? Wouldn't you call yourself a hero for doing that ? Do you think because it happened many decades ago and that the issue disturbs you, occupation shouldn't be counted? You people think that you are so just when you are taking up the most unjust stance ever.

[@jonronnquist]

The seemingly immortal stalemate that has engulfed the question of Israel and Palestine for over seven decades now may be a complicated one, but just how complicated is really an unknown quantity. In assessing the situation, scholars, politicians, activists, journalists and victims alike present their views and the public, largely ignorant of all the facts and highly susceptible to the dangers of prejudice, assumption and emotional reaction, either chose a side or retreat from the topic in apathy. We hear of Palestinian militants launching rockets over the border and we shake our heads in indignation. Then we see Israel retaliate with disproportionate brutality and wonder how such a thing can possibly be justified. When the dust settles, both sides accuse the other of premeditated murder and the whole thing begins again. The problem with this apparent catch-22 is that it is a superficial conundrum; a perpetual cycle of violence that cannot be interrupted by dialogue or mediation because its roots run far deeper than most people understand. I am not talking about the historical events which led us here. These are well documented and serve only to explain the general air of distrust and mutual suspicion between the two factions involved. If this were the sole reason things appeared so impossible to solve, the international community would have made far more headway by now than it has. The real issue, the 900 pound gorilla attending every effort at negotiation to this day, is one of territorial sovereignty. By this I don’t mean the periodic incursions by the IDF into Gaza or the West Bank. The question of Israel’s “right to defend itself” is a legitimate one, even if the means employed to achieve it are not always mired in temperance. What I am talking about is the right of Palestine to exist as a single, defined territory, unbroken and undivided by the arbitrary appropriation of land by its neighbor. Unlike the myriad of other questions involved, this one is clear and unambiguous. The IDF may feel it has a right to cross the Palestinian border - and under certain conditions I agree that it does - but that is not the issue. The issue is permanent settlement by Israeli citizens within the borders of Palestine. Of all the moral decadence, reactionary upheaval and misguided action in the region, the question of settlements and its many disastrous ramifications, is one for which Israel alone is responsible. No Palestinian government will ever succeed in quelling its own radical factions, nor achieve any wide consensus among its own people in putting an end to violent reaction, until this indignity is rectified. Human nature simply doesn’t have the capacity to endure a humiliation of this magnitude, and nor should it have to. The truth is that nothing Israel says or does in the name of peace or reconciliation will have any meaning as long as it continuous not only to allow this practice, but actively support it. Therefore every other argument is secondary to this one by necessity, if not inclination. You simply cannot claim to desire something while actively working to make that thing impossible. No nation on Earth would stand for an arrangement in which its own lands are divided arbitrarily by a foreign power and permanently occupied by citizens of that power. Palestine, as it exists today, is not a nation, as so should not be expected to function as one. One need only look at a map to see what the effects of the current situation are. It is not a country at all, but a piece of land dissected by concrete walls and the threat of force into a patchwork of disconnected territories that stifle the possibility of free movement within. In any sense of the term, Palestine is not a nation. It is not a distinct geographical entity. It enjoys no real sovereign rights, be they judicial, military or political. To pretend it is a nation and accuse it as such of belligerence, negligence or collusion is the height of both irresponsibility and hypocrisy. You don’t need to be schooled in the details or the history of the region to appreciate why little will come of any effort until this fundamental issue is addressed. And by addressed I mean that Israel must withdraw its claim on Palestinian land down to the last settlement. Not as a gesture of goodwill, or a concession to peace, but in recognition of the fact that to abuse the right of a people to exist as such without let or hindrance is to provoke in them all the violence and hatred of which humans are capable. This is not a question of individual responsibility for acts of violence. Murder is murder. No civilized society allows for the killing of one person by another, regardless of motivation. But to be civilized, a society must have the freedom to develop and support those institutions which safeguard it against anarchy and unsanctioned violence. There is no society in Palestine today, nor will there ever be unless the roots of self-determination are allowed to take hold and grow. I wrote this on Medium in August of 2014 and nothing has happened since that would make me change my mind.

[@pablopablo3834]

Very biased. Would any country put up with unguided rockets being launched into their territory periodically? Most countries on Earth would have done worse to Palestinians decades ago. The Israeli's are supposed to just let Hamas constantly fire rockets at them? Oh I forgot its allowed because they had to create the Iron dome. So retaliation is disproportionate because most get intercepted. Moron. Hamas would kill you and rape your mother because you are not Muslim and fun fact they were doing that to other Muslims in Syria. Weird right? Also I wonder why Egypt isn't letting Palestinian refugees in? Funny that its almost like they know something you don't. Almost like you have no idea what you are talking about. Wait you are stupid? No way!

[@amandadassonville4043]

4:16 I agree completely I just don't get how the world stood by for so long and refused to see this. I think Israels time is running out now. We are taking note of what is happening still in Palestine. And, our patience with Israel is running out and we see them for the monsters they are. 🐝

[@leonjohnson6709]

Isn't a big part of the issue the ideology of Hamas, which incudes the extinction of Jews. Land or no land they want the Jews off the planet.

[@timmurray9543]

Well said! So do you think Stewart's analysis is distorted then?

[@antoniofarinaccio541]

It is not that complex at all, If Israel has the right to exist then by the same taken so is Palestine. The problem is Religion, in the ancient Aramaic language so I hare read not a expert, " The Devil is the one that divides." By the same token, Religion is the Devil. People should come to their senses, to live and let live. It really is that simple but...

[@garyandrews5104]

Excellent summary of historical events and a well balanced common sense discussion on a VERY difficult and divisive topic.

[@davidchapman7904]

So good to hear two educated sensible people from different sides of Politics to be to sit and discuss things sensibly with dhouting each other down and slagging each other off. They are like old fashioned politicians who you can respect unlike the new Johnson, Corban type mentality that is ingrained into modern politicians. Respect Mr Campbell and Mr Stuart.

[@donparkison4617]

Wonderfull discussion. Thank you. Sharing this on my social media because it is so important that people realize that several things can be true at once and both sides have a lot of blood on their hands. And being able to have empathy for innocent civilians both in Israel and Gaza does not mean that we are choosing sides.

[@hughwilson-gm9bw]

This has been the best most reasonable informative debate I've seen on this subject to date. This needs to be widely seen in main stream media outlets!

[@BoomsRiddico4868]

except for the way he breezes over WHY and HOW Britain got involved (Balfour treaty etc). Meddling and needing allies to aid influence in the Middle East and globally. Also brushes over the Zionist movement as though it was all done in a positive light!! A bit like how England delicately tiptoed into Ireland, quashed its people, language, deforested the Island for the Navy and royal houses around England etc etc. British people need to educate themselves!

[@uwograd4045]

They mentioned that say NO Israeli government intends to dismantle settlements in occupied land beyond 1967 and on the contrary, they are adding to them.. can anyone PLEASE answer what hope do Palestinians have even if they totally give up any hint of resistance??? Why do all commentators who claim to be objective seem to ignore this fundamental question. What would they say to a Palestinian youth if they ask them about their future. Very sad

[@JonathanBarnes]

Its been the most one sided ridiculous stupid argument I've ever seen.

[@bordedup546]

​@@JonathanBarnesHow so?

[@mattc7561]

It is incredibly pro palistinian It is incredibly pro Israel Depending on ones biases

[@ianseaweed]

Excellent outline of the situation. Much better than the main stream news can produce

[@nilzabento-y7s]

Mr Stewart, Thank you for educating us. I appreciate your balanced presentation. I could not agree more with some of the previous comments. Such a complex history of both Israelis and Palestinians.

[@rweems5796]

Excellent summary & discussion - it accurately, though superficially, reflects the disaster I’ve observed over much of my 65 years. Regardless of the side, Palestinian or Israeli, the treatment of the other is appalling and reprehensible. For many years I was a supporter of Israel. That support waned then evaporated in recent decades for several reasons. Primarily, I wonder how is it that a nation born out of the horrors of WWII can justify or excuse its treatment of the Palestinians: failure to pay for property taken in 1948 and in subsequent actions, further expansion from the Wall and settlers illegal taking, Ariel Sharon’s 1982 War Crimes in the Sabra & Shatilla refugee camps in Lebanon, Israeli Defense Forces 2008 War Crimes due to the repeated exploding of White Phosphorus munitions over Gaza in late 2008 and, ultimately, the assassination of Yizhak Rabin in 1995 by a Right-Wing Israeli extremist bent on killing off the Oslo Accords (he succeeded). At some point one has to conclude, well, I did, that Israel really wasn’t interested in peace. It turns out that theirs is a policy of expansionism - one meter, one farm, one settlement at a time. When one’s jailers are so successful that it appears they have solved the ‘terrorist problem’, the rest of the world, particularly we in the US, shrug and say “whew, glad the Israelis dealt with that.” All the suppression, the hiding of the odious treatment of the subjugated (by walls, weapons and checkpoints) simply fans the flames of rage. Yes, Hamas’ actions are repugnant, vicious and stupid, stupid because of the reign of terror that civilians will suffer as a result. Sadly, these Hamas dudes (a sneer is attached to dudes) seem only to care about themselves and their acquisition of power: the freedom, care, safety of women, children and elderly Palestinians is, and has been, immaterial. However, Netanyahu is also responsible. The Knesset should fry him in hot oil. His pandering to the ultra orthodox and extreme right so he can stay in power and avoid going to jail has contributed to the rage that delivered a nasty blow to Israel this past weekend. Battles for power and wealth lead to distractions. The Israeli government’s and military’s distraction was clearly illuminated over recent days. It’s time someone, I hope it’s Biden, knocks some heads together - threaten Netanyahu with withdrawal of US support for his policies and figure out how to get Arab nations, particularly Saudi Arabia, to get in there and find a solution. It’s certainly time for the Israeli government to pay reparations. It’s also time for the illegal settlements to be removed and violators punished. Ah, if elephants could fly.

[@Dmg6um]

This is the best, factually objective and well articulated comment I’ve seen over the last 3 days. I’m no Palestinian or Israeli, I’ve just been interested in the conflict for the past 10 years and have come to the same conclusion based on those events (and a few others) . Thank you.

[@mccaboy]

Well if both sides really want peace and move on really solving the issues.. They can. But hatred and counter attacks never ends

[@Dmg6um]

@@mccaboy that’s the problem. In 1995 and in 2005 one side wanted an agreement. The other has never shown they wanted it.

[@maddyg2001]

Agree, I've been on the same journey and a visit to Israel in 2019, (such a beautiful and interesting country), extinguished most of any remaining sympathy for Israel. There is no doubt the Palestinians are not even 2nd class citizens.😪

[@HumanProgress]

As a humanitarian I disagree with the Arab policy of keeping fellow Muslim Arab Palestinians in refugee camps for 80 years. In 1948 the state of Israel was established according to UN principles of Humanity, Fairness, and Justice. Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Iraqis and Arabs from the disputed territory of Palestine (who never called themselves Palestinian because they never saw themselves as Palestinian, Palestine was never a country it was always ancient Jewish territory that changed hands numerous times down the centuries, these chancer Arabs living there were never in charge of it for even for one day,) all of these anti Western racist Arabs tried to eliminate the world’s newest Democracy at birth. Israel won this war and most Arab refugees (now calling themselves the “Palestinian People” since the 1960s) became refugees because of that war that was initiated by the antisemitic Arabs. Antisemitism cannot continue to win in the Middle East.

[@chuckhamilton9452]

Thank you for this well formed and comprehensive discussion on what is a complex and bewildering topic. It’s best that more of us understand the context of this conflict and continue to learn as much as we can.

[@geoffaries]

If you found this podcast so informative then your comment shows that you are sadly lacking in your knowledge of history, in particula middle eastern history.

[@iHaveBankai]

It was pretty pitiful to be honest. Most children who've learned about this know more and could present it more objectively

[@spurkay2]

Mind that most of this discussion is based on opinion, not fact. Mixing some fact with with opinion doesn't mean anything. Great, these bobble heads have an opinion...but they are neither Palestinian or Israel...and yeah the arab nations are NOT and never have been in agreement with what the UN did with Israel and what Israel has been doing to the land they "occupy" ever since.

[@jamesjohnson2394]

its not complex. Israel are a settler colony that are committing genocide on a defenceless indigenous people.

[@Dennzio1]

not really bewildering or complicated...Islam wants to destroy Israel and Israel is defending themselves...always in all times being a persecuted people.

[@Greebstreebling]

Very valuable analysis. I very much agree with Alastair Campbell's comment in the last two minutes. We have to be able to acknowledge atrocity and at the same time actively and genuinely seek a solution. Polarised angry positions get us nowhere in the long term - except more bloodshed.

[@wales123100]

Shame he didn't try solutions when him and buddy Blair unleashed a war in Iraq alongside their mate bush

[@adam7802]

Twitter is unfortunately a place where people feel instead of think.

[@highburyful]

Morning Philip great review, it's a very thought provoking series that also forces the reader to question their outlook on many topics. One important note it's not a series for Audible as you need to be very aware of who's who and the many story arcs.

[@Chardonbois]

A brilliant explainer and refreshing to hear an intelligent conversation instead of the usual social media diatribe.

[@jonathanmawdesley-thomas1863]

Rory , what a superb summary of the Israel/ Palestine conflict ,balanced , clear and plenty of hair rearranging. Thank you .

[@Deejaay83urj38]

Smile😂

[@matsdehli]

Brilliant Rory the tory. Many thanks for this both diplomatic, comprehensive and holistic outlook. Rory shows his true colours as a real humanitarian and wordly human being. It has caused a paradigm shift in my understanding of the unrest in the holy lands which has for so long confused me. I thank you sir for enriching how I now see the world around me and in particular the middle East.

[@hilaryporter7841]

Its now July 2nd 2024 and the serious grown up conversation has not yet occurred. This hell did not start on Oct 7th and every time that is said, my heart sinks. The two state solution seems to be lost forever. The answer stares us in the face but will take courage and humility. One state, multicultural, either Israel and Palestine or Palestine and Israel. We need Northern Ireland courage and a strong intelligent leader to get us there. Any takers?

[@markbenn1907]

This is amazing. I really appricate how you (in my view) properly articulated both sides and the arguments the reasonable people make. Thank you!

[@AnushaLoves7]

Thank you so much for this. Wonderful, balanced and informative. Thank you ❤

[@stephenwabaxter]

Congratulations Gentlemen in producing what has been your best podcast to date.I feel informed now and can back up my views with facts. If we all campaign for and pray for peace then perhaps that can be achieved.

[@michaelpatterson5811]

"Pray for peace"? Get real. This is a religious contagion which, as Rory explains, has been going on for around 3,000 years. You can read all about it in the 'Bible'.

[@timidtom]

No, Rory described it as if the 1948 war was started by Israel. That's a blatant misrepresentation!

[@healy-rw9tk]

The British gave Palestinian land to the Zionist under the Balfour declaration

[@PoldarkGodzilla]

You are kidding me 😂😂😂 didn’t hear him condemn hamas did you ?

[@healy-rw9tk]

@@PoldarkGodzilla he's a Tory off course he would they created this shitstorm with the Balfour declaration

[@greyjamiesod4989]

Great discussion, thank you both!

[@slowhandmedia6150]

Very balanced and informative, not the drama we see on news casts

[@wulliest]

Shared this on Twitter - quite possibly the single most useful thing I’ve read / watched today.

[@PosthumousAddress]

Rory's recollection of history was appalling, missed out massive parts. If you want something really good watch The Gatekeepers

[@ChlorophilG]

Thank you for such a nuanced explanation of whats going on in Israel. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find a perspective that isn't biased or sensationalized in some way. It's strange that to get the news these days, I can no longer watch the "news" on mainstream media. So thank you.

[@asingh7874]

Can't watch the news but can watch a bloke who created a fake dossier that led to almost 1m innocent Iraqis dying ..the friggin shameful hypocrisy of it all

[@socialistcynic]

There is no bias or sensationalization in saying Israel is an occupational state. They stole Palestinian land in recent history.

[@pablopablo3834]

@@socialistcynic It was given to them for a reason but of course that doesn't fit your narrative. After what the Nazi's did it was the only logical solution to relocate them to the Jewish holy land so they could take their fate in their own hands and be ruled by themselves. It still doesn't take away that Hamas are ISIS just by a different name. You can defend them all you want they would still kill you without hesitation. If you are American even more so than Israel they are funded by Iran after all. It sucks for the Palestinians who don't support Hamas but for the others they chose this. You play with fire you get burnt.

[@mufasasdaughter4831]

I agree with you completely

[@mansoormalik6787]

While, on the surface, this seems like a balanced presentation, the flaws in this summary, in particular the "benign" presentation of British involvement, can be dispelled by reading the best-selling and arguably most authoritative work written on the history of Modern Palestine: The Hundred Years' War on Palestine, by Professor Rashid Khalid of Columbia University

[@elenamelamed7793]

Rory did not mention a very important piece of the historical information, why the civil war 1947-1948 happened causing Israel to gain some territory. As far as I am aware the Jews agreed to the UN plan. We do not know where we would be today if the civil war did not happen and the independent states for both Israel and Palestine would be created back then.

[@jamesen01]

Exceptional discussion. How Rory can articulate such complex history so clearly is a marker of his intellect. A brilliant episode about something horrifying

[@vm5954]

So why was the state initially meant to be created in the south of sudan then?🙄

[@JD-se2rt]

Rory is absolutley incorrect to say a "Ben Gurion led military assault" led to the creation of Israel. The United Nations established Israel. *(as above)*In 1947, the United Nations took a significant step that led to the establishment of Israel. The UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181, also known as the Partition Plan for Palestine, on November 29, 1947. This plan proposed the partition of Mandatory Palestine into two separate states: one Jewish and one Arab, with the city of Jerusalem under international administration due to its religious significance to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The proposed partition was a result of the UN Special Committee on Palestine's recommendations, which sought a solution to the ongoing Jewish-Arab conflict in the region. The Jewish leadership in Palestine accepted the partition plan, but it was rejected by the Arab leadership, both in Palestine and the broader Arab world. The adoption of the UN resolution did not immediately create the State of Israel but set the stage for its declaration on May 14, 1948, which was followed by the first Arab-Israeli war.

[@Meme-dp9gn]

While Rory’s explanation was Brilliant,and I applaud him for it . Perhaps due to time constraints, there where aspect’s that where not covered and you’ve rightly pointed out that the Arab side has rejected the 2 state arrangement , and in fact this has happened on 2 different occasions some years apart , also they did not discuss when talking about the Gaza Strip . There is also the border to Egypt . So when saying there’s nowhere to go that is not correct. But Egyptian authorities have closed the border and consistently refused to allow access. The Arab world is huge ( as we are witnessing on many major cities across the world including. Britain and particularly London where demonstrations are going on that are intimidating to Londoners and this is not being managed at all well ,with current suggestions by met police for Jewish residents to stay at home ? ) Going back to Egypt , what have they been reluctant to relive some of the tensions in Gaza. As a brother Arab state this is a question that is not being asked for some reason . This situation is dangerous for the world at large , if the Israeli population where to do as the Hamas and Palestinian side would like , and vacate the country as a whole ,where would they go the whole point of the Balfour declaration was made in part as there was recognition at that time immediately following the Second World War , that displaced people needed a place to feel safe , the Israeli population have been very vocal I. Their distrust of Mr Netenyaho’s government and it actions in increasing settlements ,and ideally do not want the current government to continue In power as there are corruption charges being brought against the P.M as the country is predominantly secular ,and liberal where as the right has become more and more extreme. The people demonstrate but cannot change anything and now their will have to be put aside for the time being , the many many Palestinians are being trapped I am situation that they have no power over due to the control of Hamas . On both sides people will die I. The coming war that many don’t want this is a disaster for them and this could very well escalate as it seems clear that Iran have been instrumental in helping set this conflict up so what is the world watching happen is this the start of WW3 . There will be no winners if that’s the case Imo

[@thisisabsolutelystup]

Kicked out of the Tory party for being too intelligent.

[@odineinmann5299]

​@@JD-se2rt because in an interview Ben Gurion bragged about open firing and killing Palestine citizens prior to 1948 and talked about how he wanted to force them out of their own cities....

[@evanofelipe]

As ever, a great and informative overview by Rory and an attempt to clarify the impossible by Alastair, is well worth listening to - Thanks

[@IanLawrie-l9q]

Thank you both and especially Mr. Stewart for “the explainer”. A wonderful comprehensive guide to the history of the conflict 👏👍

[@Lloydbar]

I love the podcast, and I've often thought that you should have a separate channel for "Rory's Explainers." It would be a tremendous resource for people looking for unbiased information and real-world knowledge.

[@andyyorath2732]

A very honest, balanced and informative delivery of a complex and volatile issue. Great work, guys.❤

[@agatahb]

I've been trying to get as much information on the conflict as possible, as I don't feel I know enough to form an opinion. This is by far the best viewpoint I have found. Thank you

[@davidhecker5495]

Thank you for helping me understand the background here. Great to hear discussion and debate without party politics! I look forward to listening to more from you…

[@TottenhamHutchSpur]

thank you gents very educational

[@Alun49]

Very good discussion and very informative. I will need to watch this again. I have myself become very concerned about the tendency to insist that one must chose a side in this conflict. I have no difficulty in identifying Hamas as an extremist terrorist organisation committed to the destruction of Israel and intent on preventing any peaceful solution. I also have no difficulty in condemning the ongoing war of attrition conducted by the Israeli authorities intent on eventually wiping out the Palestinian people. Both are driven by religious extremism which actively dehumanises the other side. This conflict has gone on all my life (I'm sixty-six) and I fear it will continue long after I am gone. I believe that Palestinians and Israelis are more than willing to live in harmony but that the leadership on both sides are intent on preventing that. It is the people on both sides that inevitably suffer.

[@pardeeptandon]

The actual villains of this conflict were Christians of Europe who banished Jews from Europe and settled them on Muslim lands.

[@karencowrie]

This is an excellent synopsis. But I have been curious about the Jewish Isrealis. We have heard about the racism the Palestinians experience in their day to day life. Isreal has created an apartheid state. So the question is can you say definitively that the Isreali Jewish population want to live in peace with the Palestinians and are they against the treatment the Palestinians have received over the years or do they share the beliefs of their govt.

[@gregsmith1070]

I'm the opposite of an expert on this, but my take is essentially both sides need better leaders, they don't represent most people, especially with Hamas whom many Palestines despise.

[@Alun49]

@@karencowrie A very good question. I would qualify my statement (which is suppositional, I acknowledge) I think that humans by nature prefer peace to conflict. However, people can be manipulated by powerful groups intent on conflict for personal gain. Religious factions on both sides have taken power in recent years and pushed their own agenda. The aim of the Israeli authorities would seem to wish to dehumanise the Palestinians and through apartheid ensure that there is no integration of the two groups. Hamas have done the same, and they clearly knew what the response of Israel would be to the atrocities committed last week. They don't care about the Palestinian people either, and want to ensure that they nurture hatred as they sacrifice the people of Gaza to an inevitable and unspeakable tragedy. More moderate leadership on both sides would almost certainly have encouraged peaceful agreements and a settled two State solution. I clearly cannot state definitively that the Israeli people want peaceful coexistence, but the flip side of that would be that it would be impossible to say that the Palestinian people collectively wish to annihilate Israel and its people. This is the agenda of Hamas, and the one they wish to embed in the people of Palestine, just as the Israeli authorities and religious factions wish to embed the belief that Israel can only be for Israelis and that Palestinians and indeed all muslims are barbaric animals.

[@emac1968]

There was a program a while ago where Palestinians met Israelis where both had lost children or close family in attacks and the group organizing were trying to bring reconciliation and had succeeded in cases. Both parties tried to understand and support each other. There is hope but it has to be cared for.@@karencowrie

[@davidwalsh8707]

Well done - very well done. The first time I've heard a nuanced discussion on this topic, (and believe me, I have been looking), that recognizes the difficulties and issues from multiple perspectives, (a.k.a., a conversation between intelligent adults sincerely trying to be objective).

[@markquinlan794]

The 'you're either for us or against us' attitude in the world today is frightening. There are so many shades of grey as opposed to being black or white, but many are unable to discuss something and see all sides. Great discussion with both of you. Enjoyed it in an informative way

[@gerardnglavin6249]

I love Rory Stewarts cool calm and reasoned analysis. Always shows such respect for his audience and indeed the human race in general ❤.

[@truthlivingetc88]

didn`t know you two guys were conferring like this. great. proper treat for those like me who want a faster fuller picture. e x c e l l e n t. thanks so much for doing this.

[@janwallace5005]

Apparently Egypt told Netanyahu that Hamas were arming themselves with arms front Iran and we're preparing for a big attack 10 days before Saturday. Netanyahu apparently called it fake news and didn't strengthen the security on the borders, and his response to this attack will be a massive land grab (for security reasons) and he thinks he will get away with it. It was a very sad day when Rabin was murdered, I cried because I knew then a 2 state solution and peace died with him. I'm 62 and I don't think I'll see a proper peaceful settlement in my lifetime sadly.

[@hayabarakat7889]

Well, I'm afraid this is not the whole pictures. The Palestinians were lead into this to give "Israel" a much needed excuse to go ahead with genocide against Gaza. This whole scenario felt suspicion since the beginning. And the way things are escalating so quickly is a dead giveaway that things were pre-planned. He will get away with it (for now). I have no doubt that every country directly involved in the region's politics was aware of the plan before it started. They will only pretend to condemn the escalations and that's about it. And what peace in the region are people talking about? "Israel" wants a pure Jewish state from the Euphrates to the Nile!! Not only the land of Palestine! They teach kids this in kindergarten! Heck it's their in their flag!! I can't help but think how are they going to get rid of all those people in the region! That's us and our children!!

[@Hexanitrobenzene]

I hope Netanyahu didn't ignore the warnings on purpose, so he could have a reason for all out war...

[@Challenger160]

​@@Hexanitrobenzenethat's exactly what I'm beginning to think happened. I mean they flew in on paragliders with people with AK's on the front and not 1 security personell on the boarder spotted it? It's just not making any sense.

[@doggieclaude]

Can we rule out US orchestration to set the scene for war with Iran?

[@PosthumousAddress]

​@@Hexanitrobenzene That is one report, not corroborated. No one believed Hamas was either capable or inclined to launch such an attack, and that assessment of intent overrode any contrary intelligence data. All intelligence agencies miss and fail to predict or stop major historical events, like the fall of the Berlin Wall and Soviet Union, 9/11, the First Intifada

[@Flapsupnolights]

Rory needs to have a senior cabinet post. What an intelligent and well thought out chap. Very impressed with his chat. First time i ve listened to him. Excellent. We need someone like him running the country.

[@BillyKirbyUK]

Senior cabinet post? I can only think of one ie PM Go for it Rory

[@petercrombie6652]

Absolutely disagree. He needs to be Prime Minister. Sunak has, unfortunately, turned out to be yet another rather pathetic waffler, spouting what he believes ought to be said and not what actually should be said. As Margret would have said... he's Wet!

[@adriengonthier3532]

This is genuinely one of if not the best and simplest, arguably non biased, comprehensible, and objective timeline and explanation I have come across

[@markstott6689]

I could happily listen to Rory for hours. He always explains things with great clarity and with a lack of bias. I believe that if he'd been born thirty years earlier, that one day he'd have been Prime Minister. Sadly, the Conservative Party is a lost right wing cause these days. I don't like the modern Conservative party very much at all, but the day they lost Rory from Westminster was a black day indeed.

[@GuinVaughan]

'Going back 3000 years ...' Rory, you are an absolute star and this should be required listening for everyone. Thank you both for opening a little window of sanity in a world of madness.

[@stephena1196]

One just need go back to the power vacuum left by the fall of the Ottoman Empire in WW1. In 1915 Britain promised to support the call for independence of former Ottoman territories to enlist their support against the Ottoman Empire (the Great Arab Revolt). While in 1916 Britain, France and Russia had secret talks, the Sykes-Picot Agreement, to carve up the Middle East into spheres of influence. Russia's Bolshevik government published it 1917 when they seized power. The 1918 Anglo-French Declaration promised to support independence to territories of the Ottoman Empire, included Palestine. Britain "got behind" the Balfour Declaration because they wanted the sphere of influence, they sought with Sykes-Picot.

[@timcookson9879]

I'd wondered if '3000 years ago' was tongue in cheek? after that a fair summary.

[@FoziyahNel]

He's leaving too many things out.conveniently

[@FoziyahNel]

One sided talk cos he's scared to speak the trugh

[@environm3ntalist549]

what is the truth then?@@FoziyahNel

[@williamj8349]

Keep up the excellent work. I'm not religious, but the family on my fathers side were all massacered at sobibor and Triblika. My over simplified view for years is that Hamas and Netanyahu are the overwhelming problem. Thank you for such a clear, balanced and nuanced breakdown.

[@am4793]

WTF has Jews from 2000 years ago got to the Ukrainian and Polish homicidal monsters got to do with Palestine.

[@Intake33]

I cant think of anything I disagree with in this excellent broadcast but think what you call over simplified is still broadly correct. Netanyahu and his cronies' actions have led to what Rory describes as a strike in the military (following the brave ex IDF organisation Breaking the Silence backs this up) and I cant see a national unity government working if Netanyahu is leading it. Conversely Hamas have shown just how bloodthirsty they can be - more so than the IRA comparison

[@JR-iw8du]

@@Intake33 Hamas appear to be on a par with ISIS in barbarity. Reading their Charter shows they have no interest in compromise or conversation.

[@Intake33]

Not a comparison that Rory and Alastair seemed eager to make@@JR-iw8du

[@Snakebloke]

Blaming Netanyahu is a red herring. These views permeate the Israeli government in it's entirety.

[@razabadass]

I appreciated the efforts for respect: thank you brothers Rory and Alistair! Raza :)

[@bustabloodvessel5327]

I know it's off topic but Rory Stewart did a brilliant documentary called Afghanistan : The Great Game. I'd highly recommend it to anyone with an interest that part of the world. Edit : First time listening to this channel and I have to say I was impressed by the balanced and informative discussion. Subscribed.

[@leedavis6000]

I watched it bud, absolutely brilliant.

[@yuval1716]

The History of the imaginary Palestinian state: 1. Before Israel there was a British Mandate, not a Palestinian state 2. Before the British Mandate, it was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state. 3. Before the Ottoman Empire Was the Islamic State of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state. 4. Before the Islamic State of the Mamluks from Egypt, the Arab-Kurdish Empire was the Ayyubid, not a Palestinian state. 5. Before the Ayyubid Empire was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state. 6. Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem was the Umayyad and Fatimid empire, not a Palestinian state. 7. Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, the Byzantine Empire was not a Palestinian state. 8. Before the Byzantine Empire, there were Sassanids, not a Palestinian state. 9. Before the Sassanid Empire was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state. 10. Before the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state. 11. Before the Roman Empire it was a Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state. 12. Before the Hasmonean state was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state. 13. Before the Seleucid Empire was the Empire of Alexander, not a Palestinian state. 14. Before Alexander's empire it was the Persian Empire, not a Palestinian state. 15. Before the Persian Empire was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state. 16. Before the Babylonian Empire were the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state. 17. Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was no kingdom of Israel in the kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state. 18. Before the Kingdom of Israel, the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel was not a Palestinian state. 19. Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an accumulation of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state. 20. In fact, in this plot of land kingdoms fell and fell .. But there was never a Palestinian state or a people.....

[@bustabloodvessel5327]

@@leedavis6000 Yeah great documentary and it even got me to go and buy a couple of books on the history of the Great Game to find out more. Not sure if he made any more documentaries but if not, he should because he's got a great insight into the history of that region.

[@stukei]

@@yuval1716 Never a Palestinian people? Really? The concept of "a people" is a lot harder to pin down than "state", surely. Aren't the Kurds a people? The Basques?

[@idreeskhan8885]

@@yuval1716Yh you can keep going on about semantics you took Palestine but it was full of Muslims of which they kindly allowed Jews to live there too while they were getting slaughtered by Europeans. You then invaded and forced your way in there and European and American Jews kicked the Palestinians out of their land and founded a state based on being Jewish- a state which gives people citizenship from all across the world as long as they have same religion-what sort of fascist nonsense is this?. While giving the remaining bad land to the Palestinians. You have now continued to take away more and more of the Palestinians land while giving citizenship to Europeans and Americans because they’re Jewish. They had enough.

[@luckystarship2275]

This account omits a key stage, when in the summer of 1947, the newly-formed United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) came up with the two state solution in Palestine. (committee members were from Australia, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, India, Iran, the Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguay, and Yugoslavia - notably not GB). They gave 55% of the land to the Jews, even though they were only 1/3 of the population, because a) a lot of the area was desert and b) they felt guilty about not doing enough to save the Jews from the Nazis. The Arabs did not accept the UNSCOP decision and as soon as Ben Gurion declared Israel a nation state in 1948, all five arabic neighbouring countries declared war on Israel. Israel won the 1948 War and in the process took another 23% of land, (ending up with 78%), and expelled 750,000 Palestinian Arabs. It did this because they would have outnumbered the 650,00 Jewish Israelis in an election and Israel was planning to be a democracy.

[@warringrace]

In addition something led to the event that first took the Jews out of the land; which was the Roman empire invasion, 985 villages were destroyed and most of the Jewish population of central Judaea was essentially wiped out - killed, sold into slavery, or forced to flee. Banished from Jerusalem, which was renamed Aelia Capitolina, the Jewish population now centered on Galilee, initially at Yavneh. Same Romans named the land Palestine to break the Jewish people resistance

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

The Jews weren't given 53% of the land, unless the recent history of this conflict started right after WWII, but it didn't so let's go back a few years earlier. After the Ottoman Empire fell, the vast majority of the region was set aside for Arabs. But the Arabs weren't satisfied so they were also given most of the land set aside for Jews. But the Arabs still weren't satisfied, then 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in the Holocaust because they had no homeland. Meanwhile, the Arabs fought for Germany and planned extermination camps in Israel. After WWII, Arabs were forgiven their genocidal plans and allowed to take almost half of the land that remained from the last bargaining position. Then when Israel was finally established by a UN Mandate on a tiny sliver of the land left for them, the Arabs started the first of their many genocidal wars against Israel. Then Arab nations trapped many of their brothers and sisters in Gaza, making them suffer as political pawns. THIS is where history began in the minds of the war criminals like Hamas and their defenders. So, this is not about land, or occupations, or who killed who last year, this is about Genocide. It's even written in their constitution.

[@MicheleAbrahams-Edley]

Also, following Israeli independence, there was a huge transfer of refugees the other way as Arab countries expelled Jews. The whole thing is a mess.

[@alexisagginie4574]

​@@warringrace❤❤

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

@@MicheleAbrahams-Edley, I forgot to mention the fact that Arab countries forcibly expelled Jews from their homes and deported them, and these same coutnries have refused to take Gazan refugees. Thanks for the reminder.

[@cjamparo]

Very well done and nuanced discussion. Thank you.