Are THESE the "Ultimate" upgrades for your Atari XL/XE?

[@lmlmd2714]

The early Atari hardware engineers were amazingly ahead of the curve. The fact that with modern coding practice (plus having 40 years experience in getting the best out of the hardware!) these machines are perfectly capable of producing the kind of output that machines from a whole generation later were doing really is a tribute to those hardware pioneers. Thanks, Nolan - you made an absolute legend :)

[@atariandre5014]

Nolan had absolutely nothing to do with the A8 homecomputer line. He probably only knew about it. It was Warner who wanted the "next gen" chip set to be turned into a full computer, previously it was simply intended as the next game console. He didn't develop anything for it. He was kicked out beginning of 1979 and the A8 was released that year. You should thank people like Jay Miner, Joe Decuir and George McLeod and probably others who really designed this brilliant machine :)

[@DennisHolmberg-sl1hz]

@@atariandre5014 Perhaps, however thank you Nolan for bringing together the group of engineers that could design and produce these devices. In all fairness, same to CBM because both sides had some good designers working for them.

[@michaelblair5566]

The Commodore Amiga was an evolution from the Atari 8 bit computers because that is where the Amiga team came from. Ironically the Atari ST came from people hired away from Commodore when Jack Tramiel left so it's origins came from the Commodore 64.

[@BruceStephan]

The main 64 designer was the main designer of the ST . I ALWAYS love to rub it in AMIGA fanatics that talk trash of the ST and bragging about superiority of the AMIGA . It's only a Commodore computer by name only . It's still an ATARI machine because of the patents owned BY ATARI . Even the joystick ports are patented by ATARI .

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

My ultimate 1mb arrives tomorrow. This video will be more than helpful!

[@retrobitstv]

Nice, have fun with it!

[@ridiculous_gaming]

What puzzles me is how advanced the color palette and audio chip were for 1979. Modern coders, using more ram than what was financially possible in the day, are no less than 'gods' regarding what has recently been created on both the Atari 2600 and 8 bit Atari computers.

[@crouchypony]

Some of those genius's went on to lead the Amiga team. Lightning does strike twice...or thrice if you include the 2600

[@ridiculous_gaming]

@@crouchypony True...very true.

[@michaelstoliker971]

Don't forget the FujiNet SIO to Ethernet Adapter.

[@retrobitstv]

I don't have one yet but it's on the list!

[@CubicleNate]

I think I really need to learn more about the Atari line of computers. So, thanks for the homework! Really, a very cool device. Thanks for the video!

[@MaggieKeizai]

The original atari 800 was the first machine I spent any amount of time with, at the home of a family friend who doted on me and made sure I had plenty to do on it. All these years later, a 130 XE and some upgrades are now at the top of my "to get" list. I think he'd be pretty excited to see the new upgrades that have come out for the old machines. Thanks for instilling a love of computing and astronomy in me all those years ago, Ed.

[@AS-ly3jp]

Thank you for reviewing this. That looks absolutely stunning!!! What an addition for the old 800.

[@dorinxtg]

I haven't seen all the video yet, but in 4:40, the reason that it didn't boot the game, was due to the "Option" key wasn't pressed while starting the load process and the Basic took the memory which was needed for the game. Again, this is without the cart, just as normal XL/XE with standard ROM.

[@RetrogradeScene]

Nice video! if i ever pick up an Atari XL/XE some of these upgrades will defiantly be on the cards

[@dieferman]

Cool! Thanks for sharing the experience!

[@ecernosoft3096]

The 70's god computer. It really was THE best hardware from the 70's- nothing beats it. That's right- not even arcades. And WOW! What an upgrade. Thanks for this awesome video!

[@CobraTheSpacePirate]

This was cool! Some things that I haven't come across myself yet! Like it!

[@atariandre5014]

Owning this combo and without watching the video: YES. (With JFC's firmwares that is....)

[@amadeus484]

I recently found an Atari 800XL I forgot I owned in storage. I might want to consider trying these upgrades out on it and leave the complete in-box 800XL I bought last year completely stock. Good video!

[@retrobitstv]

Nice! Just a heads up, there is a new product on the horizon that combines the features of these two upgrades into a single unit. Might be worth checking that out. More details can be found on flashjazzcat's channel.

[@RacerX-]

Very Cool. I don't own any Atari computers but did always appreciate the Atari color palette that the C64 lacked. I still prefer my Commodore's but if I had room I would for sure add an Atari XE model.

[@10MARC]

That is just amazing. It pains me to say it, but Multi Disk support is better implemented on the Atari 8 bit than it is on the Commodore 64 devices... I have been quite happy with my Fujinet, but this is tempting!

[@retrobitstv]

Once you get a handle on what all the options in the UI are, it's pretty easy to use alright. It keeps getting improved upon too, which is nice. IIRC the SD2IEC and Pi1541 both implement 1-touch disk change using swap files, but the 1541UII+ is a bit clunkier in that regard.

[@infinitecanadian]

I have an Atari 800XL. I used it all through the latter part of high school; my dad gave it to me (all of my consoles were hand-me-downs). This was in the early 2000s. I still have it, but the RAM seems to be compromised. It also has a bank of four switches that I think has something to do with a RAM mod of some sort.

[@retrobitstv]

Hrm, the 800XL should have the built-in RAM diags. Try booting it while holding down the Option key. Of course if it's modded your mileage may vary!

[@infinitecanadian]

@@retrobitstv That's how I know the RAM has been compromised.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@infinitecanadian MT RAM chips...probably. C64 and Atari 8bit are victims of that brand.

[@infinitecanadian]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 I think the fact that it was in a garage was what did it.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

​@@infinitecanadian MT RAM chips are famous for" eating up their guts" no matter where you store them. I had 4 ataris with bad MT ram issues. Check for RAM repairs on any retro channel and you will find dead MT RAM chips all over the place!

[@gamedoutgamer]

Great video. You explain superbly and the editing is right on. =) Being an A8'er, this shows how convoluted and even often unnecessary or overpowered is the SIDEx/U1MB. While these upgrades are the "ultimate", I don't think most people need or will use them much. It's an advanced user's setup. It would be IMO important to stress that for most people, more simple solutions are perfectly suitable and even more desirable. SIO2PC-USB, SDRIVE MAX, AVG-Cart and even SIDE3 used purely as a cartridge emulator will suffice for most people. Watching this video a few times it does become more clear what's going on. Saying this as someone who has used SIDE2/U1MB and flashed and had most of this working before. Maybe once the GUI is finished by FJC, it will make using all of this much easier. People think more visually than logically.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Well full ATR support allows you to have just one storage solution and run all types of files from just one SD card.( carts, xex and atrs ). I find that practical and useful for all users.

[@gamedoutgamer]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 Yes but the process is not easy to understand for most people. It requires both the U1MB and a SIDE and how to use them both together which has many nuances. Very few people will understand how to do that. A guide or tutorial may help but not enough. Full ATR support is mostly a feature that sounds great but it's just overkill.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@gamedoutgamer Sure, this cup of tea is not for everyone. For me its a good way to spend some time with my old machine. To be fair there are many new games in atr format that I neglect since most games come in an xex or cartridge format. I just saw that I posted a comment a year ago and I still haven't done the firmware upgrade to both of the Ulitmate hardware. I hope today will be the day. I hooked my XE on a UPS and I will have a go.

[@mnemo70]

External U1MB for XL and XE and a newish SIDE3.1 are on their way. No exact release dates are known, though.

[@johnyk.4738]

That upgrade is superb.

[@sebastianpawlak]

Hey, Retrobits! It is really great that you chose our demo "Alley Dog" to show it on your channel

[@retrobitstv]

Awesome demo, thanks for sharing :)

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Amazing work Sebastian! Loved your pets' pics

[@bradnelson3595]

Wow. Convoluted. Makes you appreciate the relative simplicity of the original machine.

[@meadowglen2627]

You said it, not me. But yeah, I think the awesome work that has been done, would be so much better, if I could just use it to set my hard drive up once, and then never think about it again, instead of trying to force me into some gaming catalog system - it's is definitely in no way part of my hobby to catalog games. So boring...now I better get out of here before someone hurls a brick.

[@flashjazzcat]

Well, I think the users are becoming spoiled and thus complacent. :)

[@wallacelang1374]

The expanded memory size of an Atari 8-Bit computer using the Ultimate 1MB makes the upgrades very tempting to have done.

[@gusantunez6224]

Awesome content, keep up the good job!

[@rsuryase]

TIL hook and loop is Velcro.

[@retrobitstv]

Yea, this was some generic stuff I found in the closet, not actual Velcro brand :)

[@stevemcknelly5036]

Two of the best upgrades to have. Only things I would add is Fujinet and UAV (since you can't get a Sophia 2 anymore).

[@gklinger]

The last time I checked The Brewing Academy had the Sophia 2. I'm still trying to figure out the differences/advantages of the Sophie 2 vs/over the UAV so I can decide which to put in my 800XL.

[@gamedoutgamer]

@@gklinger UAV is better, IMO because it's not emulating the GTIA.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Just paid for a Sophia 2! Simius has an new batch available on Atari age.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@gamedoutgamer Spectre (Lotharek) is a great solution if you are in Europe. I just got a Sophia2. Its always good to have a spare GTIA sitting on the shelf especially when you own more than one atari 8bit.

[@gamedoutgamer]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 They are very nice, yes. I prefer GTIA. Have two Sophia 2's here. Would prefer S2 for running a BBS or mostly text mode work etc. Congrats on your acquisition!

[@Atari8man2011]

To run Pal software just replace the NTSC Antic with a Pal version I have made this upgrade to all 12 of my XL and Xe's you can now run all Pal and NTSC the best of both worlds

[@AlexanderKurtz]

Wow, verry impressive what is going on with the 8bit Ataris...

[@stephanepitteloud1849]

Hey, great video, thanks a lot! I have a Side 2 and an Ultimate 1MB, and I've always found the whole thing complicated to understand (I've never had an Atari before, so I'm missing a lot of the basics in the names). Your video helped me understand a lot of things, thank you very much! I have a question: from the moment we can mount floppy images in the ultimate 1mb, what will going through spartados and copying the data to a hard disk bring concretely? I can't see the advantage. Or is there any software that takes advantage of this? It would be great if you could tell me more.

[@retrobitstv]

Yea, the documentation assumes you have some familiarity with the Atari world already and doesn't tell you what terms like PBI, Incognito, or 1088XEL mean. I found that to be a challenge as an Atari novice. The good news is they are working with a technical writer to produce new better product documentation in the future. Regarding your question, I imagine SDX and the HDDs are mostly going to be useful for people who use the system for software development or other productivity tasks. For the most common use cases of playing games and demos, there's no need to do any of that at all, just use the Loader and away you go.

[@flashjazzcat]

@@retrobitstv The technical writer kindly proof-read the documentation I had already produced and offered some suggestions on disambiguation and formatting. The draft version of the new SIDE3 manual is here: atari8.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/SIDE3-Loader-Manual.pdf

[@Tim_3100]

I must admit i wonder why the atari community was not as big as the amiga's was hopefully this is just a start and it gets easier to boot games and software and less of a process

[@retrobitstv]

I really can't say. The C64 seems to get a half a dozen new releases per day, but Atari just doesn't seem to get that kind of love despite having good hardware and modern add-ons.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Well in Europe it was pretty big and still is. There are many things that affected the growth of this platform. First of all the company itself. Atari was mainly a video game company and wanted to keep the game market to themselves. They evens sue other software companies for writing games for their platform. Secondly it was an expensive to build machine (800 and 400). When prices dropped with the XL line ,there was competition (C64) but it was the "older" machine. An other important issue was piracy especially in Europe. Disk drives were expensive for Europeans so most machines came with cassette players. Cassette was the easiest medium to copy.

[@pfcrow]

It's all about the number of units sold. Atari was crushed by the C64, mostly because they didn't get the 800XL out fast enough, giving Commodore about a year to flood the market. Amiga sold about 4.8 million units. Atari 8-bits sold about 4 million. C64 was 15 million with a 4 million margin of error. No wonder the C64 community is so much larger.

[@johnyk.4738]

Wow, thats awesome.

[@BrainSlugs83]

I guess it makes sense that you can't load the updater for the SIDE3 from the SIDE3. It would obviously crap out half way through the update and brick itself... (obvious now that I've seen it happen, I mean; not like I would have predicted it either; just something that makes sense in retrospect, lol).

[@cesargaldamesbert]

Hi, I have ordered an ultimate 1mb and I have an sdrive max in my 800XL. Can you show how to play the games in sdrive max with the ultimate 1mb… how this works togheter?

[@buriedbits6027]

Are all these steps you've taken something outlined in the manuals that ship with the devices?

[@buriedbits6027]

ok you answered in the video at the end

[@tschak909]

Do you have a FujiNet? :)

[@retrobitstv]

Not yet, but it's on the list!

[@tiemanowo]

I have a similar setup but with previous version: SIDE-2. I can highly recommend it for all 8bit ATARI "fanboys" :)

[@d0nKsTaH]

I'd like to see a Cartridge expansion addon for the 130xe that allows the use of Atari 2600 and 5200 carts.... Maybe with a little pre-ROM that allows selection of multiple carts inserted. It would also have a 130xe cart slot for whatever can use that slot.... But the main two would be the 2600 and 5200 carts slots because hardware wise they are different and yet when the xl's all came out the claim was that these machines could run those games if they had a way due to the cpu and hardware being identical. So put it to the test. The XL's would probably be more of a cart with a ribbon cable hidden in a "latch" like thing that goes over the back... The 130's would just be a straight box.... a 3D printer could make a good case for either to match the look of whichever machine is using one. So making it look good isn't hard... just get it to work. Basically, the atari is gonna look in the cartridge slot for a "ROM" when its turned on right? So if it finds a 2600 cart or a 5200 ... it should in theory still work

[@gamedoutgamer]

All 5200 carts have been ported to native A8 already as freely downloaded software titles. The 2600 is very different and since 2600 is so ubiquitous it's not needed to have a 2600 emulation device for A8. Feel free to make one if you want.

[@d0nKsTaH]

@@gamedoutgamer well ports are one thing. I really did want to see if a 130XE (or even a 800xl) could do what was claimed (by Atari) and run those games.. provided there was a physical add-on to allow it. Honestly, If I could find a way to get both the 2600 and 5200 cartridge ports.. I would consider making it. Only problem.. lol.. I have neither 2600 games or 5200 games anymore.. nor even anymore Atari computers. Long gone.

[@gamedoutgamer]

@@d0nKsTaH Port is a strong word. My bad. More like converted over. Different joystick controller of course.

[@d0nKsTaH]

@@gamedoutgamer I'd just like to see those carts actually work (as ROMs or as normal 600/800xl carts do) on there. As far as the 5200 controller goes... perhaps the input is different? Hmmmm... guess that would mean either another controller with same amount of buttons.. or be easier with an adapter for that? Yikes I just remembered the 5200's weak point was those controllers... Well that complicates things

[@pfcrow]

The 5200 controller used an analog joystick that was ready by Pokey the same as a pair of paddle controllers. Most games just converted this into the same digital directions that most games were written for; I'm not sure if any really used the analog aspect. But for Atari, this meant they could drop the PIA chip, simplifying the design. The remaining chips have their registers mapped differently. For example, Pokey is D2xx on the 800 and E8xx on the 5200. Atari never suggested that 5200 games could be played on an 800-series system.

[@spinnetti]

Why not just use Fujinet? gives you SD card support, but you can connect online to so many resources..... I also don't get memory upgrades - what old software can even use it effectively?

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Fujinet doesn't support large Cartridges, HDD function etc. All old software that need more than 64k memory can run on new memory upgrade kits.

[@fragalot]

It seems a bit redundant to have the Ultimate 1M and the Side3 cart. I wonder if there's a more simpler version of Ultimate 1mb that just gives you just the memory expansion, while the Side3 card does SDcard support, SDX, and loader support. I have an Atari 800XL with the original RAMBO XL upgrade that gives it 256k, how would the U1M handle that? or will i need to remove it? The problem is all the original 64k of RAM the 800XL (8x8k) had was removed and replaced with 8x32k RAM chips with a daughter board that I think is connected the the MMU. I am assuming this would interfere with installing the U1M.

[@gklinger]

As far as I understand things, and I'm not expert, the U1MB and the SIDE3 (or SIDE or SIDE2) provide different functionality and when combined you get additional functionality. I'm really happy with the combo. Unfortunately I don't know if the U1MB and the RAMBO XL are compatible.

[@fragalot]

@@gklinger I'm thinking I'll just get the Side3 cart by it self and retain the old Rambo XL upgrade i did 30 years ago.

[@tiemanowo]

What do you mean "redundant"? U1MB is just a memory expansion and BIOS (kernel swapper) and nothing more.

[@fragalot]

@@tiemanowo They both contain real-time clocks, and SpartaDosX. Also doesn't the SIDE3 also contain BIOS loaders too? The only thing SIDE3 doesn't have is the 1MB memory expansion.

[@tiemanowo]

@@fragalot Yes , They both contain real-time clocks, and SpartaDosX but SIDE3 alone can't swap kernels , have a limited functionality loading a ATR files (it was also mentioned in the video), and no HDD support

[@meadowglen2627]

In my view - while the equipment is amazing and very much appreciated, it has a confused design philosophy. Taking up the cartridge port is a big loss - I know people claim it isn't because of simulated carts that act as a pass thru. I.e. in SDX you can simulate a pass thru to MAC/65, and have a few carts in the U1MB rom....but that doesn't actually have the user experience of plugging in carts - I have dozens. it is a big loss to lose the cartridge port, but you pay the price, because you don't have to install anything. And yet, the U1MB is internal and is installed with soldering - so why am I giving up my cartridge port again?. I do have a u1MB and side 3 combo, in an Atari 1200xl which doesn't have a PBI interface anyway...so yes, that machine if feeling pretty sweet with this setup. But, if I had my ultimate atari, I'd have the u1mb and an internal pbi hard drive. Such things have been done, just not for sale these days. well, except there is one for sale, if you have an Atari 800 ...the incognito board is essentially an internal "hard drive" and u1mb in one. I actually ordered an Atari 800 (after 14 years in the retro community).... I do want the internal solution. Or, you can now go with a u1mb and brewing academy CF via PBI....that essentially does what I describe as well. For me, its a pity that they don't case those, that holds me back. Now, such solutions work, but are the solder solutions --- the best of everything would be if Candle's upcoming external u1mb includes an sd card reader - to get everything you could ever want, and just plug it in, no install...and if you want to just jam in a cartridge and play pac-man...sweet.

[@flashjazzcat]

The 1088XEL/XLD also has an internal PBI (CF-based) HDD which doesn't block the cart port, but the simple reason the internally-fitted U1MB doesn't emulate carts is that it has no integral mass storage, and no cartridge emulation logic. The whole philosophy - far from being confused - is that the internal U1MB provides PBI firmware capability for whatever mass storage device is externally connected. Thus the user could purchase SIDE and then U1MB later on, or vice versa, as their budget allowed and as their needs dictated. This design foresight is borne out by the fact that prior U1MB users with SIDE2 (which lacked cartridge emulation and prevented the use of cartridges, in the manner you bemoan) could upgrade to SIDE3 and gain SD card based cartridge emulation and a much more powerful loader without making any further internal modifications to the machine (and have, into the bargain, access to pretty much the full XL/XE cartridge library without actually having to purchase said cartridges). That said, External U1MB (in XL and XE flavours) may suit your needs, and it's described here (along with many other WIP products): kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3-QaYNpnrBkf68

[@pfcrow]

You're not giving up the cartridge slot. You can pull out the Side 3 anytime you want to run a physical cartridge.

[@michaeliverson2164]

Can this hardware work in conjunction with Fuji Net?

[@retrobitstv]

FujiNet connects to the SIO port so there's no reason they couldn't all be plugged in at the same time. That said, I've don't yet have one so I couldn't say for certain that they work together. It's definitely on my list of things to get and try out though!

[@redw0lf848]

still waiting on that awpwheel review

[@retrobitstv]

10/10 would !nominate awp_wheel_v2

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

1979 babby!

[@billkendrick1]

"Here's a video on how these upgrades work & how to configure them" *spends 50% of the time showing off games and demos* I am NOT complaining 😂

[@retrobitstv]

Got to keep things fun with a bit of eye and ear candy in between the technical bits :)

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Most users of other retro machines never had the chance to appreciate the advanced capabilities of the Atari 8bit line of machines. So its not only fun but also informative.

[@someguy2741]

I really dont understand the "demo" scene combined with "upgraded" boards. If you are using the limits of the original hardware then ok... but if you drop an "upgrade" with 50 times the CPU and 4 times the audio channels and 25 times more memory and then make a "demo" on an antiquated system... what are they proving? Really the only thing they are showing is their ability to code in an antiquated language.

[@cnfuzz]

Why try to make an Atari St out of the xe , just let it be what it is built for or use the St

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Dude...its a memory expansion and a storage medium...why downgrading the XE machine to an ST?

[@roberthayes6329]

I have an Atari?

[@st.alexiev625]

too fancy to like it ... , not for me

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

I had similar thoughts. Since I had a system to spare I install that same configuration. Now its my daily workhorse.

[@flashjazzcat]

Thanks for a really detailed video. Check out the beta-version of the newer SIDE3 loader here: atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3-beta-loader/

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for all your hard work on these products. It was a lot of fun to learn about them and try out all the features!