Return of Rome Campaign Civilization Swaps! | AoE2: DE

We've got some new additions of the AoE2 Romans in the Alaric and Attila campaigns!
In this video, we cover the differences (or lack thereof) in the Alaric and Attila campaigns in AoE2 with the release of the Romans civilization. Most of the changes are fairly minor, but a few scenarios here and there could play out differently!
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[@frankieseward8667]

Of course. We love seeing repeat campaigns to see differemces.

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

1:00 The Eastern Roman Empire situated west of the map, Western Roman Empire situated east of the map. Totally makes sense.

[@NixDarkLord]

If you look from the upper side, its accurate lol

[@The_Room_2_Doggys_Revenge]

One possible explanation for Marcianopolis being the Goths is that yhe city was taken a few times by the Goths during the IIIrd and IVth centuries

[@JoaoSantos-ur1gg]

The only difference in Alaric 2 is that Legionaries and Centurions are replaced with Long Swordsmen and Cataphracts. And now you can use Dromons in Imperial Age scenarios.

[@elduquecaradura1468]

wich is cool, if you ask me, even more, many other civs could get dromons or a similar version of it

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

A good thing I already had the "Rome did not fall in one day" achievement, having to destroy all castles in Alaric 4 in 30 minutes. I had to manage 2 army groups, using the active pause intensively, to do it in time. Now advancing through the city will be even slower

[@aoefsmrap]

I specifically did Alaric 4 just a few days before the new DLC because I knew it would be harder.

[@jurgnobs1308]

​@@aoefsmrap I was working on the achievements and was dumb enough to push that one to later lol

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@jurgnobs1308 and it was one of the hardest ones of the bunch. However Romans have weaker defences than the Byzantines so you'll lose less time when destroying castles and walls.

[@jurgnobs1308]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine i guess that's true

[@minikawildflower]

I like the idea that some of these missions will feature the Italians, Byzantines, or Romans, depending on what part of the empire is being represented. That makes a lot of sense since the empire was so varied depending on the area.

[@teddyhaines6613]

Byzantines had this weird place as a catch-all civ for any European player that was Southern European or just an amalgam of different states/cultures back in AoK. Kingdom of Jerusalem as Byzantines instead of Franks never made much sense, but there it was.

[@Xastor994]

That's kind of the state with Sicilians now being a catch-all for Crusader states. IMO they could change Jerusalem to Sicilians so that you don't have two of the same enemy civs anymore.

[@nemou4985]

It was Byzantines because Byzantines were the only Christian state that used Middle Eastern Architecture (Jerusalem) back then, while Franks would have made Jerusalem look western european.

[@elduquecaradura1468]

I guess the idea was to make the kingdom of Jerusalem different from the franks that attacked from the north

[@aoefsmrap]

The Burgundians in Attila 4 should be Goths. The old Burgundians that gave their name to the region, were an Eastern Germanic tribe roaming through Europe like so many at the time, including Goths.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

The Burgundians cover them in their history page.

[@aoefsmrap]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine It's an interesting part of Burgundian history, it's where they got their name from. But equating Old and New Burgundians is wrong, they are not a continuation of each other.

[@87JJosh]

@@aoefsmrap The old ones gave the name of the land, that was it, the new ones were absorbed between France and HRE

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@aoefsmrap between the 2 there also is Middle Francia/Lotharingia, which is what Charles the Bold tried to recreate by trying to link Burgundy and the Low Countries. Indeed, the Burgundians were quickly vassalised by the Franks.

[@ramsesvandendriessche2463]

I think it was a reference to the marauding Burgundians during the 5th centery. They were defeated by the Huns who were auxiliaries of the Roman Empire during that time. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundians

[@Camurgladius]

"But what has the switch to Romans ever done for us?"

[@MrShadowThief]

Okay, hear me out: Bombard donjons

[@uau790]

AW YIIISSSS! AOE crew, it's up to you now!! ..... pls

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Bombard castles too !

[@elduquecaradura1468]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine this would be great for turks, and probably industanis

[@Lefreemanyt]

Ye just played Alaric through, very nice inclusion fighting Romans

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

I half expected some wisigothic cities in Tariq 2 to be Romans as the Wisigoths took over the local administration without changing much, but it wasn't changed

[@SidheKnight]

More baffling is that they didn't change the Italians to Romans or Byzantines in that campaign. The latter two make sense (the Roman population lived under Visigothic rule, and the Byzantine Empire had conquered the south of Iberia before the Muslims invaded), the former does not.

[@andresperedo1275]

The civ choice in that campaign is quite cracy

[@loopyprivate]

With new DE feature they can just change the architecture in scenario editor to Mediterranean ones without touching the base civs. I had hoped for this change too but didn't happen.

[@billdewall6152]

Pretty sure Alaric did used to be two swords. It's been three for a couple years now though.

[@Apocalypso64]

I hope that there is a Caucasus-themed expansion in the future that adds the Alans. Then they can be added to the Attila the Hun campaign in A Barbarian Betrothal (they occupied Orleans at the time) and The Catalaunian Fields.

[@Xastor994]

Alans are fairly obscure as far as Caucasian civs go so I'm not very optimistic, but it would be interesting to have them regardless.

[@lasserrdamnielsen6655]

It could work. I'd like to see a campaign about the western Alans who migrated to Iberia and joined the Vandals in their conquest of Carthage. They could be added along with Georgians and possibly Armenians. But more African civs are also high on my wishlist.

[@Apocalypso64]

@@lasserrdamnielsen6655 I see a Caucasus expansion happening with four civs: the Alans, the Armenians, the Georgians, and the Khazars. In fact, I and a few others are trying to work on a modded expansion adding those exact four, based on concepts I created, including a new architecture set that I am in the process of designing myself. Oh, btw, I think Goar would be an interesting choice for an Alans campaign. We'd get yet another perspective on the Battle of Catalaunian Plains, this time from the Alans' perspective. AoE1 had it from the Romans' perspective, and The Conquerors had it from the Huns' perspective.

[@thomasfplm]

I'm a bit sad that the roman symbol isn't the tower shield Edit: people already explained me why.

[@Astrellaable]

While iconic; it's not really accurate for late Imperial Rome.

[@thomasfplm]

@@Astrellaable, I did not know that. Do you know why they changed?

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

The one I expected is a Chi-Rho oval shield (like the one the centurion carries), but they went with another design that's historical for the period. The tower shield was from the times of Augustus and Trajan, no longer used after the Crisis of the Third Century.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

I think the main reason why they stopped using the scutum is because its very optimised for tight formations but relatively cumbersome in single combat (angles were protruding relatively to the central handle, it limits how you can cut around it with your sword), so as the sizes of armies decreased it made more sense to put less emphasis on formation fighting. It also may have been more expensive to produce and maintain than a simpler oval shield. The Empire was in deep economic trouble so they cut corners, litterally when it comes to shields, everywhere they could.

[@thomasfplm]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine, that's very interesting, thanks.

[@darrennorniron]

Galactic battlegrounds camapigns always had fun easter eggs on the edge of the map

[@wv8d]

Would be cool if we had a few scenarios about the rump states of the roman empire such as the kingdom of soissons, roman britain, dalmatia

[@Yinace]

Do you think William the Conqueror from the Hastings campaign from AOC be changed from Franks to Sicilians? Because “Normans.”

[@OrnLu_AoE]

No because Sicilians are a paid DLC civ

[@Yinace]

@@OrnLu_AoE I would like to imagine that scenario to have a civ swap. Maybe somewhere as a Custom Campaign.

[@tobiasm5579]

The Problem is to that the sicilians Had the sargents and Wilhelm the counqueror are has good old hard Kavallerie that historian What where a good Idea to gave lionhard in cuyprus more man or a bigger Marine but Not First i think after 20 or 40 minuests of hard

[@hieratics]

But the Normans speak Norman French, the Sicilians speak Sicilian which is closer to Italian. So it doesn't make sense

[@elduquecaradura1468]

@@OrnLu_AoE well, it could work as a teaser to tempt players to buy the dlc, right?

[@AqilDaiyan]

*I wanna see you playing these! Please also play Gajah Mada #5 again. They changed the elephants and its now impossible(for me) to win it following your strategy

[@shamblingman6293]

What changes?

[@AqilDaiyan]

@@shamblingman6293 When Ornlu played it, they were Elite War Elephants. Now they are Siege Elephants

[@shamblingman6293]

@@AqilDaiyan I see. I finished that mission never reaching the traders. Spammed battle elephants instead

[@andresperedo1275]

Thanks for the review! It always feels weird to me that in some campaigns and scenarios they go for max accuracy with the civs, while in others they completely ignore that (Tariq) Btw, I would love to see you and t-west playing the upgraded version of SOTL scenario 😀

[@SidheKnight]

Tariq is a weird campaign, in that it remains virtually unchanged from the African Kingdoms version. The campaigns in The Forgotten and African Kingdoms expansions were very rough around the edges, with stuff like the computer having infinite resource unit spam instead of proper AI and a villager-based economy. I'm disappointed they didn't change it.

[@elduquecaradura1468]

@@SidheKnight or Sumanguru being able to spam shotel warriors at such sickening rate that you need to pray that your armies can hold those long enough to your trebuchets to eliminate the castle before your trebs fall too

[@JimCullen]

The Celts in Aquileia actually makes some sense, historically. The Gauls were a Celtic people, and the part of Northern Italy that Aquileia is in would once have been cisalpine Gaul.

[@inconemay1441]

Alaric 2 has no civ swaps, but they changed the Roman Defenders to Gray and tweaked the layout for the main Eastern Rome base

[@JimGam9]

Shouldn't Cordoba in the first Tariq Ibn Ziyad campaign be Romans as well, instead of Italians?

[@SidheKnight]

It should. Either that, or Byzantines.

[@T2266]

IMO for the now "Imperial Centurion" being weaker than the generic is kinda stupid. they should have buff the Imperial Centurion and make them show up in Attila 4 to up the scale for the sake of the plot. 9:08 Yeah, they could have made them make a bit more sense, like Italian and Sicilian instead of Celts and Britons, or even you could make them just bare those civ skins.

[@erkocab]

It would be cool to see you replay these changed scenarios especially getting the achievements in "a giant falls" and "catalonian fields."

[@R3DT1D3]

I played co-op with a friend on Cata Fields as the Goths and having to fight Romans instead of Byzantines made a pretty big difference in my army comp.

[@elduquecaradura1468]

more horse archers? just asking, I am planning to play that map, mostly for fun xD

[@why_wait]

You need to replay them yes ❤

[@princeimrahil6557]

Replaying the Battle of the Catalonian Plains in the Attilla campaign as a true battle of Hun and Roman is my main reason for buying the DLC haha

[@lasserrdamnielsen6655]

Hope you had other reasons, since the DLC is not actually required for that. :D The new civs appear in old campaigns for everyone. You can even play Prithviraj as Gurjaras without owning Dynasties of India.

[@elduquecaradura1468]

@@lasserrdamnielsen6655 wait, what indian civ is available after the partition of "India"? I do remember that from the 4 civs born, 3 are for the dl dlc, and one is accesible to everyone, or is it Industanis?

[@tibersulla2305]

With the Romans being added, I wish the Byzantines could get a more Greek representation, I mean their core population was Greek so A Greek voiceover makes sense instead of Latin which is already used in Italians.

[@muchmilner1808]

In my opinion Romans can represent [in later age] the Papal State. Why? Area of Papal State it kept Roman traditions the longest, e.g: Praefectus urbi [typicial old Roman office] was still nominated in the 9th century. Their citizens closely related to the old Romans [northern Italy it was quickly inhabited by barbarian peoples] Popes often decided about coronation of emperor HRE. Church spread Roman culture

[@ATTLASXD]

Hey I would love to see you do the civilization swap campaign redoes to see the differences in the you have to fight. And battle them.

[@sharkzun1650]

alaric 3 red plays no role so it's kinda sucks, hope the devs will make something different to that. And they put more gold piles near our base and give some palisade wall for ally

[@talmagejones]

I think in the first alaric they also got rid of the stone gates and swapped them for palisade

[@user-fp5dw4ff3d]

[@daniloalves1139]

8:00 I finally got the achiev after the change... but I think because of the change I don't think I can do the Rome was destroy in a day one... but I'll try with cav

[@elduquecaradura1468]

also I will try but with a rarer combo: mass archers and light cav/or infantry (militia) and of course trebuchets

[@seltin1988]

i hope that the eastern romans get the legionary too :I i also would like them both to have the imperial skirmishers!

[@daniloalves1139]

I think that the Montezuma campaing changed? For a reason now Xochimilco and Tepanaca are mayan?

[@elduquecaradura1468]

I forgot to play Alaric campaign again to check that, I should do that before :|

[@sekharpriyansu]

The synthian should be updated to cumans or tartars.

[@MrMart374]

Will you do a revised campaign review for Alaric and Attila or just leave it like this?

[@OrnLu_AoE]

I doubt there is enough of a difference to warrant a full re-review

[@jurgnobs1308]

damn, I was working on my aoe2 achievement and havent done the one where you have to take rome in 30 minutes. probably should have. roman legionaries could be a bit harder to take out

[@Sebajstard]

I own AoE2 Definitive Edition on Xbox. Do I need to have the Rise of Rome DLC bought to have these changes applied to my campaigns?

[@lasserrdamnielsen6655]

Civ changes and other changes to base game campaigns affect all players, at least on PC. I'm 99% sure it's the same on Xbox (but you can easily test it by starting Alaric 1)

[@mryes413]

What about Bari?

[@kentsang7410]

nothing special about the civ swap maybe it make Attila 4 more difficult?

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Civ swaps are to make the campaigns more authentic, not change them in depth

[@lucianojose69]

​@@Duke_of_Lorraine I agree, its nice to see the "historical accuracy" effort btw i played the 4th game of attila on hard and my army and base got destroyed bc the legionary bust its so stupid they moved so fast! But i recovered my army thanks to the no houses bonus and i clenaned with a LOT of micro the remaining roman army with cav archs

[@tcsiyic3584]

Ornlu, speaking of which, or if anyone else know whether you need the DLC to play custom scenarios where you play as the DLC civs such as Rome? What about multiplayer custom scenarios? (Is it only the host need or everyone need to get the DLC?) Thank you very much!

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Not sure about custom campaigns. I assume you need the DLC. Same with lobby games. Others can play as DLC civs if they own them, but you cannot unless you've personally bought the expansions

[@tcsiyic3584]

@@OrnLu_AoE Thank you!

[@PapaCharlieist]

Yes REPLAY

[@edmis90]

Eastern Roman Empire is on the left whereas Western Roman Empire is on the right 🤔

[@adeelqureshy573]

Why are the lobbies for online games dead in this game???

[@RobbieDPL]

It would have been good to see the Romans swap out the Italians in Tariq 2, but you can't have everything! As for Atilla 6, why not give the cities a mix of Italians & Sicilians? I was going to suggest Aquileia become Portuguese (an ode to Sforza 4 where the Venetian city is Portuguese), but the Organ gun might be out of place?

[@JoaoSantos-ur1gg]

Aquileia doesn't train unique units in the scenario so I guess they wouldn't be training Organ Guns either if they were Portuguese.

[@Xastor994]

True, at least Patavium or Mediolanum could be Italians as the civ does represent the northern Italian city states and the UU would even be fitting (and challenging). The Sicilians (Normans) would be quite anachronistic though.

[@SidheKnight]

Or they could keep the same civs, but change the architectural style to Mediterranean (it doesn't affect the wonders) and rename the civs "Romans'"or "Patavians"/"Aquileans"/etc.

[@riv4lm4n]

return of rome not bringing the AoE1 campaign is a deal breaker for me

[@mohamedkirgliz261]

I am related to Eastern Romans also known as Byzantines i don't consider myself as greek, Western Romans and Eastern Romans we share same DNA ancestry i mean we was J2 haplogroup, the Ancient Greeks were J2 as well but i believe were mixed who knows modern Greeks are heavily mixed and they are not my people the Asia Minor Romans have been brainwashed we have nothing in common with the Ancient Greeks we been Hellenized because Latin was stopped exist so we adopt the greek language, stop calling Eastern Romans as greeks those who feel greeks they can go to Greece and stop calling themselves Byzantines descendants they are no longer and most who went to Greece are now assimilated and the fact is that most of us mixed with Türkic tribes i myself mixed with Khazars and Cumans so the majority are mixed they went to Greece they are more mixed

[@cool-aquarian]

Devs too lazy to just swap civs in existing campaigns instead of giving us more campaign content. Clearly, Return of Rome not worth the price.

[@safuwanfauzi5014]

Romans, Goths, Huns and Celts are 4 end antiquity-early medieval civilizations, especially Goths(Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals), Persian can be both pre-Islamic or Sassanid/Late and end of Romans(200s-400s and 630s AD) to Islamic. I hope next AoEIIDE DLC should do Caucasus region or about East Asia, 'Armenian, Georgians, Alans or Avars' could be good campaign story telling, for East of Asia, 'Thai, Tibet and Jurchen/Manchu or Sihala/Sri Lanka' or can become Buddhist Kingdom theme. It's not complete if AoeIIDE not to add Thai, Ayutthaya and Sukhothai story are very famous in Southeast Asia. Khmers-Mon, Burmese and Malay-Javanese(Langkasuka/Patani, Kedah, Srivijaya, Ligor/Nakhon Si Thammarat, Dharmasraya and Singapura Kingdom) are 3 enemy that Thai contacted and fight. Tibet are one of strong kingdom in medieval ages between 600s-1500s, fight with Arabs, Indian Kingdom, Chinese, Mongol and Turkic. Sub-Sahara Africa have many great Kingdom and civilization, Benin/Edo Kingdom, Somali and Swahili, others group like Kongo, Buganda, Zimbabwe/Shona are not to much story to tell. maybe Kongo with Portuguese story. lack of historical architecture for Kongo and Buganda both build simple building and hut, and Africa civs need to have at least 1 more new architecture, South or East Africa. Mali and Benin used old Africa, Somali, Swahili and Ethiopia with East African(Using Ethophia architecture or Somali architecture. horn African architecture almost similar, both influences by Semitic old south Arabian and Omani and Yemeni Arabs)

[@weresic]

You should try the Romans vs Barbarians Skirmish Conquest map

[@Felipe_XIV-XVI]

I think the Cumans can play better Scythians than the Mongols.

[@AB-nu5we]

I'm up for replaying these scenarios with the new civ swaps.