REUSABILITY REUSED - An SRB2 reusability update

[@UncleSciz]

my favorite political statement in srb2 is lethal filibuster zone

[@JogG4DX]

is that battle cats

[@racinracerxp8645]

It's what

[@ThereIsOnlyModok]

You fool. My original character Flash the Porcupine's double jump ability is actually a deep reflection of my life and hardships

[@krisjolt]

Flash is a stinky poo poo head smh

[@skelswap]

ngl when you first mocked the comparison of srb2 modders to the mona lisa in this video i thought you were just making up an exaggerated strawman, but i was BAFFLED to later hear that it was actually a direct comparison made in the forum post

[@eightee7635]

The way my jaw dropped reading that lmao, like wth are we doing 😭

[@ikagura]

The Mona Lisa isn't one of the most parodied classic art in history?

[@superplayerex2431]

@@ikagura The fact that it's one of the most parodied pieces of classic art in history does not matter. What really matters is the idea that someone can compare SRB2 modders and modding to the Mona Lisa, which in of itself is a rather egotistical, very absurd and non-nonsensical comparison to make.

[@MiltonGagliardi]

I can't believe you don't understand the deep message and the nuance about our current geopolitical climate "Ray the Flying Squirrel in SRB2 mod" gives us.

[@souptaels]

SRB2 community are just now allowed to do unofficial ports. Meanwhile other communities dgaf about unofficial ports, in fact most encourage it. Why does the Sonic community wanna be special about everything so bad? But yayyy new ports mod section woooo, I guess.

[@wasdwazd]

Maybe STJR got an inflated ego from all of the "This is the best Sonic fangame" videos made about Sarby Two

[@somerobloxdude3699]

@@wasdwazdtbh, i hate those kind of vids, that one vid about overture 95 was kinda why

[@titanic_monarch796]

it was mostly because of mod theft as far as I'm aware. If you know about what happened with Faithfull for minecraft you can see how this can become an issue

[@souptaels]

@@titanic_monarch796 if that is the case, then I feel like issues like that should be dealt with separately. I don't think the whole community should suffer cause of a few bad apples. Idk what's going on with Minecraft

[@evdestroy4121]

@@titanic_monarch796 Problem with Faithful is that they took the resource pack without giving *any* credit whatsoever, and then started monetizing it on top of that. That's a whole other can of worms. iIrc the original creator works on a new version of Faithful nowadays also.

[@keeby4]

Finally someone said it, I always thought it was strange that you have to ask for permission on even the most minor of things

[@glennianheroes1383]

a point on the ending: art isnt strictly proprietary, it never has been. thats entirely a newer idea, and it screwed a lot of people over at one point in time, a trip to the moon being a great example of one piece that suffered from the commercialization and copyright nightmares of art being introduced then

[@murilosampaio1264]

I have my own views about art and I always say that the art doesn't belong to anyone, even if you have the framed painting of moralistic or the perfect replica of an statue issued directly to you by the original artist themselves, you only have whatever physical means of expression the creator used to Shor their art, because art is the message, and you don't own message, they can be heard and interpreted, but not necessarily own them as a material property, white bread opinion sorta, but I see it that way

[@GoodGirlPeruru]

I remember a weird situation from a couple years ago, massive fights in their discord server that lead to someone, iirc pretty important, stepping down. I love this game, I've been playing it for nearly half the time I've been *alive* and it's genuinely an incredible effort and shows so much dedication to this franchise.... but holy shit, do the developers take it way too seriously now. It feels like the fact the game is closer to being as old as the entire series than it is to being completely new has started to get to some of them and this game exists in a bubble alongside the actual Sonic series and it doesn't owe its existence to the media more recent than its inception. Which regardless of its influence, is just SO not true. These games always exist at the whim of the company behind the original property, and at the whim of the ups and downs of the community along the way. If the series doesnt exist, this game doesn't. Dudes need some serious humbling.

[@ikagura]

"It feels like the fact the game is closer to being as old as the entire series than it is to being completely new has started to get to some of them and this game exists in a bubble alongside the actual Sonic series and it doesn't owe its existence to the media more recent than its inception" You nailed it: SRB2 is basically as old as Adventure 1 (which itself is way older than the first Sonic game on the Genesis was when it came out) and since people consider it as being one of the best Sonic fangame out there (or best Sonic game period).

[@evdestroy4121]

12 minutes worth of word salad that can be answered with a simple "who fucking cares" followed by another 9 or so minutes of "what you're doing isn't even legal." Incredible.

[@TheKorenji]

yeah wasn't expecting things to get so real so fast, makes it seem like STJR might actually get in trouble for this one

[@sintheemptyone8108]

This has been going towards that direction for 10+ years at this point. This is probably going to be remembered as just another escalation.

[@braven_iss]

Cool that they made an improvement finally at least. I burst out laughing seeing that reusability is a license violation in 99% of cases though, that's just hilarious. I definitely agree with the whole grandstanding bit you mentioned, they take this stuff way too seriously.

[@peacefulskies9320]

stuff like this is why srb2 is dissed frequently by other parts of the sonic fandom lol

[@braven_iss]

@@peacefulskies9320 Yeah, it's annoying as hell. It's overly prestigious and defeats so much creative potential in general. I literally got onto the QA team for Megamix Mania by modding the first demo for fun and posting about it, and they've been an absolute dream to work with ever since. I can't stand the restrictions in the SRB2 community at all lol

[@evdestroy4121]

@@braven_iss Megamix Mania is such a god-tier project

[@particleng]

if you read through the gpl there's actually a couple of articles you can link to lua mods being a violation. it's surprisingly not a super long read and you should do it yourself at some point if you're interested in the topic

[@sintheemptyone8108]

@@peacefulskies9320 At this point, I wouldn't even blame them considering how this trainwreck is going down.

[@graysongdl]

Frankly, I think even "art communities" should be encouraging freedom and openness. What IS inspiration, really? What is a derivative work if not a work of its own? What counts as derivative? I say, who cares? Why do we need to "define" what a derivative work is? If we untangle art from the outdated legal bullshit it's being weighed down by, art can stop being stuck in the past, and embrace the future.

[@shortnameswill]

Ah yes, my favourite political statement, "Starshy Stages"™

[@ven9562]

reusability is a trainwreck. i see the worth in allowing creators to maintain a level of ownership of their work, even if it is for a free software. it's a legally binding thing, its more of a show of respect. however instead of kneecapping other creators, why not just... make a system where if you make an edit of a pre-existing mod, the thread that mod is uploaded in is automatically considered a "sub-thread" of that original mod? it continues to emphasise the original mod while offering the edit as an alternative, i'm pretty sure this is a similar system to MUGEN, where character mods often get patches for CPU AI or for balancing reasons. atleast portlegs are allowed now. preservation of old srb2 content is highly appreciated, even if i think this is a little too late for that. this is something that would've been much more valuable in the 2.0-2.1 era, where we've lost alot of old mods over time. hopefully they dont go through with actively delisting portlegs when the original creators return though, because they deserve to be preserved in their state just as much as what they're portlegging.

[@ikagura]

The transition from 1.09 to 2.0 was so big I agree. Portlegging between these two versions was more important whereas a 2.1 mod can "easily" get ported to the 2.2 branch.

[@james_-zx2be]

Why do Nu STJR posts always have a somewhat spiteful and egoistical feeling to them?

[@itsjustbusiness1989]

when you have been dealing with constant pointless drama and unnecessary stuff within the community of a game you really love I'm sure you too will also feel spiteful and critical over every dumb decision made within the community

[@james_-zx2be]

@@itsjustbusiness1989 Sorry, I was referring to nu-sonic team jr’s news posts. Sandwichface is literally the goat

[@jadetealaaron2003]

My personal favorite social statement in SRB2 is Super Luigi Truely, a beautiful statement that speaks about our society

[@particleng]

i feel like these two things warrant two completely different videos with how important each one is, but here's to hoping the audience retention stays relatively high past the halfway point

[@toolazytorenamemyself]

Well, mine stayed high so here's hoping.

[@danyo5786]

The chaotix Cuban missile crisis line made me die lmao but, like, actually. I really hate when artists do this. They take whats supposed to be a fun, relaxing hobby that's meant to be shared with this world and turn it into this morally righteous garbage that I refuse to believe any sane person gives a shit about. I just want to AFK as mighty on the OLDC rainbow matts christ

[@rlcraftisharder4036]

I remember the time where I had a private discord server that featured an srb2 hate channel originally made for a specific member of that server, good times

[@ikagura]

Whereas the Doom community didn't bother with that kind of stuff. Also the idea of a mod author being more popular having more power is wrong to me.

[@sintheemptyone8108]

FNF, SMBX, etc: *First time?*

[@ikagura]

​​@@sintheemptyone8108 I don't follow these game's fanbases but I know Super Mario Bros X was made by the same guy behind Plazma Burst. I notice how communities with primarily kids are the ones with these rules, maybe it's just a correlation but they want to enforce them so there's no random kid stealing assets and code around although art is naturally transformative (if mods can be called art but it's STJ seeing it as that). I personally believe video games alone are not art (neither are mods) but being able to take something and remix it has been the basis of humanity, imagine if fire was under Intellectual Property so nobody else could use it. Or that steam machines were proprietary.

[@emperortoho]

@@ikagura wasn't smbx made by the terraria creator originally

[@wowothis2326]

Have never played srb2 in my life. All I do is listen to these videos and read up on the forums. The community of this game is so oddly political within itself it’s fascinating to me

[@GodittoC]

Interesting. Wonder how the community will react to this

[@B.L.U.S]

That ending felt like an uno reverse card

[@jess648]

wild how srb2 community refuses to conduct themselves HOW EVERY OTHER MODDING COMMUNITY DOES. most people just either roll with the FOSS or keep things closed sourced. none of that weird middle ground partial permissions garbo. doom community does none of the appealing to mb morality horseshit

[@heavysystemsinc.]

As an art school graduate, you are more right about art in general than sonic Jr. Just outright. Art actually isn't art until it's experienced by others. Until that point, it's just expression into the ether. Remixing is a part of that process.

[@Nedow40]

Reusability only really works to impossibilitate people from posting copies of mods on the forums. Anything else just don't make much sense because the whole thing is Open Source. I mean, anyone can get SRB2 Kart and modify it back into a Riders game if they want or just reskin into an actual Mario Kart game.

[@Akabalthy]

I recieved the discord message notification for this video earlier than the youtube notification

[@KirbTheKorb]

i love this community it's so oddly,, "political"

[@sintheemptyone8108]

Zoomers don't seem to know how to keep RL issues out of recreational activities. Especially americans, and can I just say, I don't like being bossed around by people who can't even point where my country is on a world map.

[@ikagura]

@@sintheemptyone8108 When you see people telling that "everything is political whether you like it or not" (and implying that not caring is itself political because you are condoning the Status Quo) while trying to be online activists that use any form of entertainment as a platform to tell their message it becomes saturating..

[@radiokunio3738]

They lack principles, so they obsess over laws and technicalities.

[@dreamer72]

I highly disagree that FOSS and Art dont mix or that SRB2 shouldn't be regarded as "high art". Anything can be meaningful including SRB2 mods. Sure the "deep personal life story and sociopolitical philosophy" is a big stretch but I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to make that. Like some crass and amateur WAD doesn't mean anything but as you said it would be a shame for it to be lost, which would then make it important. Art is subjective and people should be able to reflect themselves or appreciate the simple beauty of SRB2. Doesn't make them pompous or cringe it just makes them dedicated. Which is why people port old WADs to newer versions, because it might not be that important but someone cares enough to make it functioning again.

[@tedbasher3000]

Author's returns just sound like nu-STJR having an ego larger than multiple galaxies. if I make cool thing and someone likes cool thing and reuses it and credits me, I don't have a problem.

[@bluntshooter]

1:04 jarvis go to srb2, use the ray mod, open up the console and type "say victory"

[@lego174]

what does it do actually

[@bluntshooter]

@@lego174 see for yourself it is WORTH it

[@lego174]

@@bluntshooter HOLY FUCK HES JAMMING OUT

[@bluntshooter]

@@lego174 i told you

[@RaiginAnimator]

17:26 MY GUY I know what it means but you could just say that To put it simply Because of How SRB2 is licensed as an open source game things like mods for that game must obey the same rules like being open source

[@Banddy]

great video, nicely researched!

[@apersoniguess_]

....you know, this also reminds me quite a bit of the 3AIR modding community

[@GamerTowerDX]

Spill the tea, I'm interested lol

[@sintheemptyone8108]

And with that, you have just saved me from more headache, as I was looking to enter that community in the future.

[@ikagura]

They too have a reusability rule?

[@apersoniguess_]

@@ikagura not quite but modders, mainly the ones that happen to be moderators in their Discord, are pretty territorial over their mods, and they really don't like people editing their stuff, which I can understand to an extent but some of them get really upset over it I feel. The people in said server also really don't like trying to obtain mods that were taken down because "if it was taken down it was probably for a reason", which is a shame because there's quite a few cool mods that are just gone now because some of them weren't reuploaded onto their own forums site when they migrated from Gamebanana late last year (good luck getting an ERZ super sonic flight mod now), and other arbitrary reasons we may never know, though there are a few that were made by creeps that I can understand being blacklisted

[@sintheemptyone8108]

@@apersoniguess_ Ah, it's a corrupt moderation situation that exists because of centralized file hosting. So the solution to it is the same, decentralization. The problem is, people are not willing to let go of the power they've gained through centralization easily.

[@Zippy_Zolton]

that forum post is the weirdest word salad I've ever seen and makes me feel a little insulted to have made SRB2 mods before (although I stopped actively working on stuff in 2021) because I don't want to be seen as an art snob that gets asked permission from others to use literally anything from my works even when they may have been marked as reusable

[@ashleywhite8888]

you were ejected from the community don't act like it was your choice what

[@sorrydudebros]

​@@ashleywhite8888 "We didn't like you so we got rid of you, your experiences and opinions don't matter." Yeah. No toxicity here.

[@braven_iss]

@@sorrydudebros zolton is a groomer that's why they were removed from the community lol

[@peacefulskies9320]

@@braven_iss holy hell the whiplash i had from this little thread made my jaw drop bro

[@ponponpatapon9670]

​@@ashleywhite8888😂😂

[@Fleetway21]

I literally watched part 1 yesterday. This is convenient

[@Ahmad-pd7fq]

21 minutes? that's a juicy video!

[@tedbasher3000]

by the way, even a map pack has to be GPL compliant, as I believe the level headers are SOC which is also binded to C code although SOC stands for Sonic Object *Configuration* so I'm not sure if it applies as it is essentially a config file

[@james_-zx2be]

Nu STJR trying to turn this game into a trans 'art community' is an actual crime.

[@sintheemptyone8108]

From what I've gathered through observing other fandoms under similar conditions, such communities tend to fall into irrelevancy once kid diddling scandals or false accusations involving them arise & implode said communities.

[@ikagura]

I am still curious about what sexual orientation or gender have to do with that fangame.

[@evdestroy4121]

Did I miss something? Why is it "trans?"

[@sintheemptyone8108]

@@ikagura It's the mental state behind many of these people that are often to blame, not the insensitive & frankly often political stuff itself. There is a correlation, but for a different reason. I know very this very well because under their definitions, I belong in that demographic myself. Yet not only have I retained my identity without needing to transition, but said identity was only further enhanced by my background, allowing my feminine & masculine selves to exist in tandem. No, the reason is far more insidious... many mentally ill people from the autistic demographic, particularly those with aspergers syndrome, were likely coerced into transitioning under the idea that their problems would magically go away. They didn't.

[@radiokunio3738]

​@@sintheemptyone8108 It's disturbing how many FtMs are undiagnosed autistic women that up detransitioning. That's part reason I still desist despite my body diaspora. Personally speaking a lot is due to sensory issues due to being autistic. Body hair can be a torment.

[@sighrelief]

I believe that the reusability clauses would be 100% enforceable on the SRB2 forums without being in violation of the GPL, as that would be the SRB2 forums' ToS/rules (that is, they can personally choose to moderate however they personally see fit, with whatever arbitrary rules they make up regardless of the GPL). However, if someone else wanted to break the reusability terms outside of the forums (such as on their own website, on their own discord, or anything else), they would have full rights to do so without having committed copyright volition. They would not be bound by the reusability terms since the mods are GPL licensed, and the reusability terms are only binding on the sr2b fourms. GPL gets first and final say. (Save for SEGA, who actually would get first say over their intellectual property (characters/iconography, not code)) If the SRB2 forums state anything along the lines of "you can't republish anything posted to the forums outside of the forums", that's completely legally unenforceable, however they'd still reserve the right to, say, ban you from the forums. Still, someone can make a clone repo/site of every mod licenced under the GPL as well as derivatives of those mods and be 100% legally within their right to do so, and no one would have any legal precedent or right to argue against it. Basically, reusability terms aren't legally binding, GPL is. SRB2 forums can lock/delist/ban you even if you weren't in violation of any copyright law, but were in violation of their own personal terms (they can ban you for any reason, arbitrarily, legally speaking). Reposting outside of the forums is legally protected under the GPL, so no mod author nor STJ could DMCA you, and would lose in court. I'm not positive on the mechanics of this, but If mod authors get significantly worried about this, i could see a future where lua code that makes SRB2 api calls is distributed separately from any other mod assets and then expected to be merged on the user-end. I believe If two parts of a mod are distributed separately, the non-lua code/assets would be licenced however the author sees fit, and the lua would be GPL. I could also see a future where STJ develops a separately distributed bespoke modding api/library which calls for a separately distributed "mod launcher" with its own licencing. Then no mod made for it would be forced to be licenced under the GPL. Though all current and past mods will remain perpetually GPL licensed, and new mods would have to use a completely different and new set of standards to be developed under. It's clear STJ's intention is not for mods to be GPL licenced, but they are, so we'll have to see if they make any changes like this. Even so, if any mod developer or STJ wanted to make a legal argument as to why redistribution or modification of their mods isn't legal, i'd find that strange considering that a sonic the hedgehog fangame is in fact unlicensed reuse of sega's intellectual property, and is inherently a tolerated copyright volition. This will ultimately not boil down to a legal argument, but a moral and ethical one. Anyways, the GPL is based, open source is based, and public domain art is based. Fuck copyright; Intellectual property law is actually just a normalized form of censorship. Credit is all that ought to matter (because copyright volition is not plagiarism). Art should be more like open-source, and all the arguments for free/libre software are the same for free/libre art. But that's just my moral/ethical stance :D. Watch Patricia Taxxon's The Golden Calf (parts 1 and 2) if you're curious to learn more about it :)

[@murilosampaio1264]

Dude, imagine trying to think you're cookong making a sociopolitical critique in the form of a sonic the hedgehog fangame mod, its like the guy that tried to emulate dementia in a map, trying to pull this while your are jumping with a cute little blue cartoon hedgehog and his even cuter fox sidekick following him behind (But tbf being a sonic fan causes a similar if not worse effect than dementia, from my own experience as a sonic fan, so I can kinda get behind that)

[@gamecubeking]

10:54 These examples are intentionally very technical "something has TECHNICALLY been changed!" because they're supposed to show that some forms of "editing" are easily understood to not be transformative to the actual product. They're made in support of porting. Oh, and before I go into the bulk of my comment, I want to say, I do think ideally everyone would be willing to let their work be reusable, since I do view the modding scene as more of a community effort and I want to see people build off of others to make better things than they could alone. Hey! Even the SRB2 team must see merit in this, since they turned the level design competitions into collabs! However, I can empathize with creators who want some control/protection over their mod. I do think that the way they word the reason for people make mods does come off pretty pretentious, but I think there's some nugget of truth under them. People aren't making their mods as some high standing form of art, but they would still like the work they put in to be validated, and to be respected by their friends and peers for having made it. Yes, you should be making this stuff because you like doing it and because you like the end product your self, most definitely, but even kids, who draw for fun, will happily show their parents what they drew so it can be put up on the fridge, getting recognition for you work is something everyone wants. The issue comes in when your work ends up getting used in ways you didn't sign off on, which, in theoretical bad scenarios, could result in your name getting tagged to low effort work, or in the opposite scenario, your work gets used in a much bigger project that gets lots of love, and the part you made, which could be vital to it working at all, may go unrecognized because not everyone reads credits. One last hypothetical situation I can think of is that, say, the Shadow the Hedgehog + mod gets posted on the official MB, and is listed under the new creator's name, which means new people who may not go over the credits or know of the pre-existing mod, will start attributing the entire mod's creation to that person, instead of the guy who did 90% of the work. Now, to be fair, this is nearly all "the players aren't doing due diligence to find out who makes their mods and what their role is" but it still is all stuff that I can't blame mod authors for wanting to avoid. I think, if a more open community where reusability is the standard is going to be reached, we need to quell these fears. I don't have the knowledge to talk about the whole GPL thing, personally. I did want to bring up the fact that we're using Sonic so we're already in a legally grey area, but I *believe* that the GPL only applies to the code and not the graphical assets? I wouldn't be able to say definitively. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if the argument made by the biggest defenders of these rules is that they're not legally disallowing you from using their work, they're simply not letting you host it on the MB forums. Kinda like how you're free to say what you want but you can still get kicked off a platform for saying it. But, hey, if this GPL stuff only applies to code, then maybe people will feel a little more at ease knowing that people can't just use their OC's sprites.

[@particleng]

that last paragraph's a toughie. from what i've read in the gpl, it goes into a pretty gray area that'd have to have some discussion on it. the thing i ended up deciding on is that the graphical stuff necessarily changes the intent of the program (the intent being entertainment), so can indeed be forced into open source. this is also seen in vanilla, as ssn's (and now the current) sprites are completely public domain although he made them kinda hard to get to in an attempt to block off any poor content using these sprites. ...but that said on graphical stuff, i'd like to demerit your argument just a little. a good part of that middle section is about how changing a mod can result in the lack of credibility to certain authors, but i present to you: the silverhorn mod. do you know who made the sprites? that can easily be found in the credits that nobody reads, and i know you probably initially meant that "nobody reads credits" meaning those usually found in pk3's or wad's but i'd also like to add that nobody actually reads official credits either and thus the credibility of those creators are shot. i can see that that part of that argument are kinda flimsy, so i present to you one step further: where does the music come from? i see sound design, but no listings to the actual music tracks used in the actual credits to the mod. i've searched through the pk3 and have found several songs that aren't originally written by the team behind silverhorn. if this music was written by another mod creator within the community, or at the very least, if it was written for a specific level that had a "non-reusable" tag on it, it would immediately get shot down by the judges (which includes mr. silverhorn himself, btw) unless they provided some proof that they were allowed to use said music. i appreciate your argument and i really do love your idea behind credibility for mods -- and i also see the merit behinds charyb's post -- it's just that all of it seems particularly protective of specifically srb2's creators, and that seems a little dangerous seeing how most admins are mod creators in some capacity themselves.

[@futurepiercer]

I download addons by theme, download count and rating. Sorry to all of the creators/modders out there, but I don't know any of the creators names/tags.

[@DrMecha]

Meanwhile, all of the Racers mods of SRB2Kart is being ported to Dr. Robotnik's Ring Racers.

[@zcramblo]

Tbh I'm just the average consumer, when I download an addon I don't care to read the credits or give a second thought, I just play and enjoy, sure I can sometimes recognize that the same person made two mods based on quality and artstyle yet I still wouldn't care or give it a thought

[@james_-zx2be]

Sandwich face is the best

[@willytor7899]

I'm not a fan of the reusability system but your point about reusability being in violation of the gpl feels like a false equivalency. the gpl is a legally binding software license. reusability is a strange mechanism of a community run message board. other than getting you yelled at, reusability holds no authority outside the mb. the role of reusability, despite all its flaws, is to keep the members of a community from upsetting each other.

[@xntimodern2670]

Some observations hint that the influence of the MB community on people is not as harmless as we would like. For example, in the Russian-speaking community, literally all modders, with the exception of two people, are calm about the idea that anyone will reuse their content. And the very two modders who react to this negatively (and sometimes very negatively) are people who actively communicated with MB members or read their chats for a long time (including the old IRC chat). Of course, correlation is not causation, but this is a good reason to think about it. At the moment, everything looks as if the consciousness of the MB members is affected by some kind of “mental virus”, and they are spreading this “virus” to other people.

[@Sandwichface]

How much "authority" reusability holds doesn't matter. A license violation is a license violation.

[@crescentstars9805]

​@@Sandwichface I think what they mean is that the reusability system isn't a legal or license system. It's a platform moderation rule. People can still legally release their mods with reused content without the creator's permission because the GPL license allows them to do so, but the MB as a platform has the legal right to chose which content they do or do not want to host. Just like how it's perfectly legal for me to post off topic discussions in the bug reports but it isn't illegal for the MB to moderate against that and ban by account if I keep doing that. They aren't forced to keep up posts and content just cause the content isn't illegal.

[@ItsCenrryTH]

Nice Ray gameplay, btw. I'm still ass with him... In any case, what are the penalties for violating the GLP License?

[@Twisted_mettle]

Lawsuit I think

[@sintheemptyone8108]

@@Twisted_mettle We can sue these mfs to the ground?

[@souptaels]

@@sintheemptyone8108 I don't think anyone's taking a nonprofit Sonic fangame, that's been in development for over 20 years, to court over breaking rules cause of modding support let's be fr. It would be funny tho

[@-octosquid-5203]

This doesn't break the GPL, it's just the rules for the mb, reusability is just for respect of the mod author.

[@sintheemptyone8108]

@@-octosquid-5203 Reusability is a concept that falls apart in a low-trust community where people think everyone's solely out for themselves. The enforcement of said concept through strict rules rather than as means of common courtesy is ultimately what ends up hampering the community more, leading to people ironically respecting the artistic vision of others less by refusing to use or engage with their work altogether in fear of being witch hunted out of the community if they do. The modding scene for SRB2 is a sinking ship for this reason. When new people get the impression that the influential people kicked the ladder from under them, why would they spend their often limited time & motivation in this community when they could get a far better end result in dozen other communities elsewhere who don't have these problems?

[@kfcnyancat]

I agree with most of the video, but I'd argue SRB2 mods can be self expression, because I would define "hey I thought this gameplay idea would be neat" as self expression (while I have never modded SRB2, I am in the very early stages of making a Sonic fangame so I do have skin in this) It doesn't have to be something deep. Also I absolutely would argue an SRB2 mod could theoretically be really deep and personal, or a political or artistic statement. I do not think this mod exists (at least the political or artistic statement part, there's another comment on this video with someone saying their mod is personal to them) but it could. That said, if SRB2's forum admins allowed a mod that's a controversial political statement onto the MB, they would most likely learn that allowing that *was a bad idea.* I do not think the community for a Sonic fangame is ready to deal with the high-running emotions and serious discourse that comes with that kind of thing. But this is also why I dislike the SRB2 admins being against any site other than the official SRB2 forums hosting SRB2 mods. I know in practice they can't stop Workshop or the Gamebanana page, but I don't think maybe wanting to host your mod somewhere else for some reason should be frowned upon. Honestly at this point I like to avoid the use of the word "art" altogether because of how it's varying definitions overlap heavily while not being identical (and there are a TON of definitions of "art" in the Merriam-Webster dictionary.) When you get into the weeds of what is and isn't art, you just end up with pointless confusion.

[@garsrandom4358]

Well it is still not to late for the « Stop the Reusability System » movement The way it works is simple, poeple create mods that they mark as non-reusable, yet add the following statement In the description: « Feel free to reuse these mods in other mods despite the non-reusable marking, it is only there to annoy Sonic Team Jr so much they will stop this reusability nonsense, I personally either wouldn’t care much or support you in your actions, the only two conditions for you to reuse the mod are the following: « Mark your mod as non-reusable as well and copy this exact statement of the description of this mod into the description of your mod » I hope this statement has been understood »

[@ashleywhite8888]

nah i actually get including the fact it might be self-expression. i personally made my physics mod, robo it up, to share my own platformer design ideals about characters having different sensory experiences in their moveset, which partly has to do with my autism and trying to make a digital form of stimming. if someone misrepresented that i would be frustrated. edit: also silverhorn gets pretty personal and metaphorical and that's not to be looked down on.

[@snowob]

yeah, i can't speak for them but a lot of princessplushima's add-ons feel pretty personal too

[@sillylittlepyro]

basically half of my motivation for spriting peppino in ntopp is to prove my skills to myself, the comparisons are wacky but there's enough people who mod for both themselves and their audience to take them into account when fiddling with the rules

[@sintheemptyone8108]

I'd argue lot of the desire to make there sorts of projects non-reusable lies in not wanting other people to put their spoons in their work not because of wanting to selfishly hog the glory but more out of fear that the result would break apart that personal vision. Let's be honest here. Most of us are socially awkward, often broken people trying to use this community as an outlet, lot of whom were taught to believe that people are solely in it for themselves. Many of us have that mental barrier in place that prevents us from sharing our sentiments and visions with other people. Perhaps many of these problems could be avoided if we could spare time to converse with what would be our kin. Leaving yourself vulnerable in such a way may be a risk that can be almost insurmountable to lot of us since many of us don't have faith in other people, but even if we wouldn't be able to comprehend each other, at least we could take solace in the fact we tried to... leading to a sense of mutual trust. Because clearly these problems will not be solved through shouting matches.

[@evdestroy4121]

I don't think most of the player base cares. All they do is see a cool mod to try out, and if they end up finding it fun, they continue to play it. It's not that deep.

[@Doritoproduction69]

Make sure to check out the lepori port shhhhhh

[@PoppySynQ]

Planning on doing anything ring racers related ?

[@Sandwichface]

Ooooooohhhhhhhh yeah. I have more than enough to talk about for that "game".

[@SonicCd-ns2kx]

2 likes in 38 seconds bro fell off

[@kirbgreen]

shut up

[@gusdotd894]

Why are there comments like this on some videos I see on youtube? I'm baffled.

[@Tozito911]

@@gusdotd894 idk, same question.

[@SonicCd-ns2kx]

@@gusdotd894 tbh idk I just found it funny so I sent it even if I don't usually send stuff like this

[@Fredthepizzaguy929]

10 likes in 2 weeks bro fell off

[@LilSonicxd]

W vid

[@zac9181]

10:19 WHAT!?!

[@Hodger88]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@Unknownlight]

My dude, GPL is a legal thing. It means that you can’t _sue_ someone for modifying and redistributing stuff licensed under GPL. Furthermore, its original and main purpose is to prevent corporations from taking work that other people shared and re-releasing it as a proprietary product. It doesn’t have anything to do with what forum threads a specific message board allows. That whole section was a misleading distraction from any actual points you were making.

[@sintheemptyone8108]

I don't think it is a mere distraction, it's something worth bringing up because it's what I would call a gray area in terms of user-created content. Just like how our copyright laws are very outdated considering the nature of modern gaming, so are these licenses. Sure, it is a blind spot in his judgment of the situation, but it's not unreasonable for him to question whether it is legal. The way I see it, if reusability was meant to be a common courtesy-kind of deal, then the fact people are even thinking whether the enforcement of it in the way MB does is legal or not in the context of GPL shows how badly MB has managed to screw things up. I cannot believe we are talking about legality in a fan game community of all places, this is absolutely wild.

[@cullernow]

Nice srb2 crib man

[@deadinphantomile]

erm... all art is political....

[@sintheemptyone8108]

It's "everything is political" over again.

[@ikagura]

Like a certain villain said: "If everything is political then nothing is."

[@Rodrigo_Apgaua]

Snowflake statement.

[@NerfPlayeR135]

Alright, time for another debunking session. TL;DR - Sandwichface seems to have no experience with the types of people the SRB2 community tends to attract, and therefore cannot empathize with them. It's _their_ wishes that are reflected in the community's rules, not his. On top of that, the GPL violation argument is completely nonsensical, comes out of nowhere, and seems to be motivated by a desire to burn everything down. 3:11/12:05 Google defines art as "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." The term "art" does not have to specifically refer to something that can be showcased in a traditional art museum - as long as we're using our abilities to make something that others can enjoy, it qualifies. Yes, that means your KZbin videos can be considered art as well. I'm not an expert in licensing agreements, nor do I know much about how Lua works, but I know you aren't either. And I can spot a logical fallacy when I see one. 4:08 While I do agree with this statement, Charyb brings up Notoriety and Credibility because they are actual reasons why people create things, including SRB2 mods. It may not gel with you or me, but it gels with someone. 6:13 Same thing as above - some people are competitive by nature, and want to outdo others in the creative sphere, SRB2 modding included. It's not something that's obvious to spot, but inspiration is sometimes linked to it. 6:52 A lot of people have personal connections to their creations, as they tend to implement their author's own experiences and personality. This is especially true in the Sonic community, what with the abundance of OCs. Yes, I know you're thinking of Coldsteel, self-inserts, and lazy recolors, but there's some that have a lot of effort put into them. A few of these OCs have been turned into legitimately amazing SRB2 mods, such as Skip and Inazuma. The latter in particular has a whole backstory behind him, which you get to play the conclusion of. To see others casually brush _all_ of that aside, something you put a piece of yourself into? It hurts. Let me put it this way: If someone re-uploaded one of your videos, but they dubbed it with their own voice and said something other than what you said, how would you react? 7:50 You're looking too deeply into this. Let me give you an example. Back in the Final Demo days, when the OLDC was still a competition, Glaber submitted a Match map named Voiced Concern Zone. It was meant as a protest towards the inclusion of Chaos Emeralds in Ringslinger, which was planned for v2.0. The map included said Emeralds in an effort to prove that the change would ruin Ringslinger. This is the sort of "statement" Charyb means - a mod made to make fun of, advocate for, or protest something. 8:38 Why are you saying that someone isn't allowed to derive enjoyment from their own work? It's something that happens all the time in the creative sphere - people often create for themselves first and foremost, decide to make it public, and then amass fans because they like what's on offer. You seem to have no experience with the types of people the SRB2 community tends to attract, and therefore cannot empathize with them. It's _their_ wishes that are reflected in Charyb's posts, not yours. 10:55 Just because an analogy doesn't work for you does not mean it can't work for someone else. 13:09 I do agree with this, but you're missing a key detail - for the unofficial port to be removed or unlisted, the original author can't just say so. They have to start making a port of their own. The end result won't be identical to the unofficial port, but it'll achieve the same goal. (Plus, there's guaranteed to be someone who keeps the unofficial port anyway _because_ it can disappear.) 14:03 This is a complete asspull of an argument. All of the Lua libraries are included in SRB2 itself - mods only provide _code_ for the interpreter to use. Lua code does not need to be GPL licensed because it is considered an external resource when compared to Lua's interpreter and libraries. I'm not an expert in licensing agreements, nor do I know much about how Lua works, but I know you don't have those qualities either. And I can spot a logical fallacy when I see one.

[@Sandwichface]

I genuinely have no clue what you're rambling about and you didn't need to write so much to tell me "Yeah, I didn't watch the video but you're wrong". I hate the SRB2 community so much it's unreal.

[@JuneCole29]

@@Sandwichface Dude didn't even read it. The baby got scared by all the big words and it made his brain hurt.

[@nuclearkitten6421]

you're wrong i mod and i literally make them only for the clout and to see people enjoy them and talk about them. i make my mods for me in order to look better

[@Douside]

Very good video! NTSJR finally took their firsy step! I'ma quickly say my takes on the first three (skipping Competition) points of the "authors returns". This doesn't really good for lua, more for characters so take it witj a grain of salt. For Notoriety, its kinda basically that you want too be oniwn for making a character or code, your the owner of that character or code. For creditably, its really basic, its just hey i'm the owner. I made this. I'm creditable of this thing. Then for self expression, its just if you make something to express how you are feeling you rhinking, and makinf something like a character is maybe to express that you like srb2 or sonic and you wanna contribute to that! I know my points are.. kinda bad, but thats what i thought of watching this!