Review: Five Ridiculous Boxed Sets

[@geraldmartin7703]

There goes my hopes for a Bolero box.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm so sorry...

[@bomcabedal]

Coupled with all available recordings of Chabrier's España and Rimsky's Capriccio Español perhaps, and we'll call it the "Spanish Rock". It'll be the size of Barcelona.

[@7karlheinz]

I was planning to do that for a classical radio show I was DJing, but I got bored with listening to so many Boleros, I scrapped the idea.

[@grahamexeter3399]

Thank you so much for setting my mind at ease about the Decca Rite of Spring box. I missed out on getting it before it was deleted and haven't been sure whether or not to cry myself to sleep over it ever since. I haven't, but it's taken every ounce of CBT mindfulness at my disposal not to. You've set me free! Tonight I'll sleep like a baby!

[@HassoBenSoba]

Thanks for mentioning Mehta's Schmidt 4th Symphony, one of THE greatest performances of his music ever. Listening to Mehta's recording for the first time (back in Fall, '73) was as close to an out-of-body experience as I've ever had. Some years ago I had a running conversation with Robert McColley in Fanfare, as we both waited for Decca to finally release this great performance on CD. FYI...back around 1996, I visited Mehta in his room after a concert with the Chicago Symphony and asked if there was a chance he would bring the Schmidt 4th to the CSO (it had been done once previously....in Spring, 1980..a pathetic, clueless performance by the orchestra's then Assistant Conductor). Mehta wearily looked up from his chair and whined "But then I'd have to LEARN it again...!" A curious attitude from a guy who absolutely OWNED the work back in 1971. LR

[@bomcabedal]

My wife just asked me why I shouted "Hello Dave!" with my headphones on. And the video was good, too.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Please give her my best regards.

[@bomcabedal]

@@DavesClassicalGuide She sends them back.

[@AlexMadorsky]

I usually remember to put my headphones on, but my wife has gotten used to the lovable if curmudgeonly “Hello Friends” emanating from my phone multiple times a day.

[@brucehunter1115]

The finger down the throat for Thielemann’s Strauss a highlight!

[@7karlheinz]

The Furtwangler box is currently selling for 799.00 on E-Bay. Dave, I’m surprised you didn’t mention that it was an SACD release, which will allow you to hear every audio imperfection with the greatest of fidelity!

[@wortleyclutterbuk7347]

Thanks so much for that. Most of those have floated up on the "customers who purchased..." list of temptations. This was therapeutic. And speaking of, you're probably familiar with Freud's "Narcissism of Small Differences," which you describe, but which interested viewers might enjoy searching out online. Describes a lot of us!

[@paulbrower]

...and one of Dave's favorite sets of Bruckner symphonies is the Vienna Phil box of Decca recordings. Replace whatever was the eighth with the magisterial recording by Karajan, and you would be even closer to perfection. No whinny there!

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

I am Berlin Philharmonic fan of the first order. I admit my fandom. However, that box is certainly something I will never purchase. I will never be able separate the performances from the times they took place.

[@somewhereintime6839]

Hello Mr Hurwitz, I have to say that I adore your channel and the very articulate way in which you describe composers, performers and performances, it's really wonderful. Do you have any "non-classical" (as in pop, rock, jazz...) favourite artists and do you collect their music? I think it could be a great topic for a video. (Btw, thank you for discovering Z. Ruzickova for me, she was amazing)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I enjoy lots of different kinds of music, from musical theater to calypso to The Turtles, although I don't feel qualified to speak of it as a critic--just a music lover.

[@kend.6797]

Excellent video! For the record, I am not a Furtwangler nut, but I do have that BPO box. I also have the DG box, which came out shortly after the BPO box. As a collector I felt like I needed to have them, but I consider myself sane enough to realistically recognize the limitations of all this material. Most ridiculous box? Hands down Universal's "The Mahler people's edition". They put this out in 2010 only weeks after the DG Mahler complete edition was released. Here is a comparison of the symphonies included: People's choice: (1) Kubelik (2) Mehta (3) Abbado (4) Karajan (5) Bernstein (6) Bernstein (7) Abbado (8) Solti (9) Giulini (10) Chailly Complete Mahler edition: (1) Kubelik (2) Mehta (3) Haitink (4) Boulez (5) Bernstein (6) Abbado (7) Sinopoli (8) Solti (9) Karajan (10) Chailly. You can't make this stuff up.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Oh, how I remember that! It was also released at the same time as the Mahler Incarcerated Edition, which was no different, as it turned out.

[@kend.6797]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Unbelievable.

[@episodesglow]

@@kend.6797 lol he was joking

[@ThreadBomb]

Yes, I realised that Italy is doing its own thing when I bought a DG Karajan/Bruckner box with a weird cover and Italian-only notes. I'm not really complaining, as the music was there and it was cheap.

[@TheAboriginal1]

They did the same with Monteux (Decca Recordings vs "Complete" Decca Recordings). At least the Italian box is still very good.

[@douglashuntington408]

Mr. Hurwitz after a few years of back-and-forth I finally bought the Ozawa BSO DG box last month with my mad money. It was at Newbury comics in Dedham for 80 bucks. I knew it wasn’t going to be up standard but I’m a Boston guy. I don’t know if I will regret it. Would love to hear you go through the box. I haven’t. By the way I have the long blue munch BSO box which I listen to all the time. Love French music. I’m not French, but my mother is. Rock on dude

[@jeremysmith302]

My vote might be for the Bernstein 'Royal Edition', which has great recordings but is somehow centered around a unifying theme of Prince Charles's dilettante watercolor paintings. No doubt a matter of sponsorship/funding...but what a curious concept.

[@barbaricyawper14]

When you ask “Why did I buy this set?” , your answer should be “So you, dear viewers, don’t have to!”

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Very true!

[@Don-md6wn]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I hate that you spent good money on that disgusting box set just to confirm that usual "remastering" blather was a load of BS.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@Don-md6wn Me too. But at least it's tax deductible!

[@Don-md6wn]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Wait until it goes out of print, and you can probably auction it off on Ebay for a profit!

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

For once, I actually have one of these: the Sony-Columbia Stravinsky box. I picked it up at McKay's bookstore in Nashville for something insane like 10 bucks. And even then it was free because I had a crap-ton of store credit from trade-ins.

[@ThreadBomb]

Just looking at the list of performances, I think the Sony box is a much better purchase than the Universal one. C'mon, on 10 CDs you've got the composer (twice), Ormandy, Stokowski, Monteux, Bernstein, Boulez, Tilson Thomas, Salonen, and Ozawa (can't win 'em all). If you like the work you'd probably end up with most of them anyway.

[@joshgrumiaux6820]

The one label that truly deserves to be bashed is Warner. They're not even a real label (can we stop pretending like they are?) Whenever I see a box that says "Artist: The Warner Recordings" I want to scream. Labels like EMI and Teldec had their own sound, unique roster of artists, and legendary engineers like Suvi Raj Grubb. Those people didn't work for Warner, Warner didn't even exist then. It's one thing for a corporate conglomerate with an ugly logo to repackage and re-sell old recordings. It's quite another for them to photoshop out the EMI or Teldec logos on ALL the covers and call them "Warner Recordings" decades after they've been circulating quite happily under their original label. You know, the labels that actually made the records.

[@dranfox]

I agree the names are confusing, but some of these "complete Warner recordings" boxes contain recordings from multiple labels, and some of those original labels have long since ceased to be. And they don't slap their names on everything. The Ruzickova set, and quite a few others, still carry the Erato label. I think Warner is doing a good job at curating all their material. The Icon boxes and the Cantelli box are good examples.

[@bertranddaldy9748]

Completely agree- we all grew up with these labels. Warner could at least retain the logos of these famous companies and call them heritage editions or something and put the Warner logo discreetly at the back......

[@joshgrumiaux6820]

@@dranfox Valid points, I just find it insidious when they replicate an original cover and go out of their way to airbrush out the label. It's like they are whitewashing history. And Icon covers look particularly amateurish, graphics-wise.

[@dranfox]

@@joshgrumiaux6820 I'm not sure if Warner has the rights to the EMI logo, Josh. "EMI Records", the non-classical part of the old EMI, is now owned by Universal. They may also own the logo.

[@BVcello]

Well, I understand your point, but I also would like to differ: Warner could indeed be seen as a company that just cashes in on the hard labor of the past. However, they gave us a splendid Callas edition (only shortly after having taken over EMI)... Same with Karajan (though not so lavish), and even Kempe (where the remastered edition doesn't get the praise it deserves, it's very impressive). No, I think EMI was very sloppy near the end of its existence, also cashing in on their own past. But I nevertheless agree they could show more respect towards the origin of these recordings and mention at least the name of the old labels somewhere...

[@michaelhughes1504]

No complete Rattle edition yet ... fodder for a future installment!

[@leslieackerman4189]

Please no, no!

[@jeffreytarlo5057]

I have worked (now retired) in the retail classical music in NYC in management and buying for 30 years. You should very well know that labels repackage their recorded repertoire over and over so the consumer has to keep rebuying their music library. Keeps money in the till so to speak. By the way, I think you are doing a fabulous job even though I don't agree with you at times.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Oh heck Jeff, I know you from way back. What a pleasant surprise! Thanks for chiming in. I know that is what they do, and always have, but that doesn't make certain choices any less foolish. Anyway, it's very good to hear from you.

[@thirdcoast5755]

I like the single-piece box idea, but it would really have to be a personal choice as to whether you love a piece enough to purchase 30 versions of it. Would be really cool if they somehow let you make your own selections to put into a theme box but I guess that’s what downloads are for.

[@olegroslak852]

I didn't mind (so much) that Universal did separate DG and Decca 175th anniversary boxes for the VPO, so long as there was no duplication of recordings (there wasn't, I don't think). The Vienna Phil is a great orchestra, and has made enough great recordings to justify more than one box for their 175th birthday. So many, in fact, that I get how they would need to be curated sets, and two great curated boxes of the VPO are better than one. What I DID mind, very much, was that what we got seemed like way more dreck than gold in each box, AND too much stuff that was already available elsewhere, even currently. I know that not everyone is going to agree on what the best stuff the VPO did was, but the ratio of misses to hits in these things is so high it seems like there was no human involved in putting them together at all. I think I bought each only really wanting about 10 percent of the content. Maybe that was the point (I had to pay more), but it sure didn't make me thrilled. Meanwhile tons of other stuff that could have been in them was missing. That said, I agree that the Decca box was superior to the DG. What stinks is that both could have been much better, and weren't. I remember DG's rather low-key cd celebration (at the height of the cd era, that is) of this same orchestra on its 150th anniversary (I would have thought that was more significant than 175, no?). Not a lot of disks, but what you did get was (mostly) stuff you couldn't find anywhere else. All live, too. The Clemens Krauss Missa Solemnis, Bernstein in Haydn 102 (not otherwise available), a really good Klemperer Beethoven 5/Schubert Unfinished, and other really interesting stuff, some (but not ALL!) of which worked its way into these two new boxes. That was at least a better idea, and a more interesting set to have. Oh, and, by the way, if you're actually going to give an award for most ridiculous box set while sitting in front of the tam-tam, you should probably close with ringing the thing, like they used to do on Chuck Barris' The Gong Show.

[@Don-md6wn]

I have a hard time psychologically buying a huge box when I'm interested in only a small part of it, even if it's cheaper than buying a smaller set that only has what I want. I don't want to look at a 100 CD box knowing that I've never listened to 85 of them and probably never will. I know it's irrational, but that's why I only have 2 boxes with over 20 discs. It feels like waste.

[@johnwright7749]

Thank you for telling us what to avoid like the plague!

[@maudia27]

I am listenning an old box set...but new for me: Cherubini Sacred Music with Muti and Marriner - after discovered his six quartets. A forgotten master - except by few opera recordings - could you make a video about him? Your insights would be very welcome as always.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It would be fun--we'll see how it goes. I do like some of his music very much.

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll join the public demand for a Cherubini instalment!

[@Recolation]

I am a fan of Furtwangler - a critical fan, but a fan nonetheless - and I'm in complete agreement regarding that box set. In-fact, I would probably go a step further and posit that the sound is worse than most other releases of the material, save for one recording. The remastering on that set essentially just ups the treble and adds reverb / fake stereo. No thanks. The Bruckner 5th, for instance, sounds immensely better on Testament's issue of the performance. The only truly big improvement over previous releases is the Symphonic Concerto composed by Furt himself, with Edwin Fischer playing. That performance was only available in quite bad sound before, and it seems they got a superior source for this release. That being said it's hardly worth the price, and it's not a composition I care much for anyway.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Fair enough--I too have heard better versions of some of the items there, but thank you for offering some specifics.

[@richardsandmeyer3558]

As you probably know, when EMI ceased to be as an independent company, its "pop" section went to UMG. However, the anti-trust agencies in the EU and US thought that having UMG control the DG, Philips, Decca, and EMI classical catalogs would give them too large a share of the classical market. So, Warner was persuaded/allowed to buy the EMI Classical catalog. I believe the EMI name and logo went with the "pop" section and are now controlled by UMG. So Warner may not be able legally to use the EMI trademarks when it reissues EMI recordings; hence, the Warner logo appears on original jackets where it does not belong historically. In the cases of Teldec and Erato, there is no such legal condition since Warner owns the whole company including name and logo in each of those cases; note that the Erato and/or Teldec logo often appears along with the Warner one on those reissues. I agree that it does look a little ridiculous to see, for example, the Barbirolli 109-CD box issued with the Warner logo. Contrast that with the Erato logo on the Cluytens box also issued by Warner.

[@Don-md6wn]

The EU still enforces anti-trust law? What a quaint concept.

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

Quaint? The european anti-trust laws are there to protect average customes like you and me.. unlike in the US where the Attorney General seems to press charges, when POTUS feels slighted!

[@ralphbruce1174]

I agree for the Furtwangler box set. Since we already have all this stuff and the remastering here is not an improvement. But sadly, I will buy this box I find it at a bargain price under the 100 dollars and give it to a friend who will appreciate,I guess. By the way, the Sacre du Printemps by Furtwangler , I know there is no recording of it, but it should be a wonderful April's Fool. And all the boxes you talked about, I will by them all at a bargain prices like 50 dollars. But for 200 or 300 , I won't. And by the way , I guess you think the same for the bigy 107 cds Wilhelm Furtwangler Legacy edited by Membran. I got mine for 50 dollars. And I had listen to the only recording I do not have found elsewhere.

[@barryguerrero7652]

I think Warner should issue its own "Rite of Spring" box. They must have a few (counting EMI).

[@francoisjoubert6867]

In thought you would have included the Karajan DG Sacred Works box set.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's not a ridiculous box, just a box of ridiculous performances.

[@UlfilasNZ]

@@DavesClassicalGuide A subtle distinction.

[@michaelhughes1504]

Take the lid off and clear out the discs, and the Vienna 175 box would look like something Pepo might like to sit in.

[@thezealouscellist1966]

...or maybe do something else in!

[@CortJohnson]

Dave in his element. Hilarious 😃😃😃

[@JohnChambers-lh5bw]

I love le sacre du printemps but 30 odd copies ? Too much

[@AlexMadorsky]

I do like the idea of a Rite of Spring box, and similar boxes that are different takes on the same work. But it should be a “best of,” not everything in the whole bloody catalogue!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, but who decides what's "best?" That's the problem.

[@AlexMadorsky]

@@DavesClassicalGuide quite right. That why it’s best to just curate one’s own collection of favored works. I expect many of one multiple recordings of the same works. Sorry for all the typos in the original post. Fat thumbs and all that.

[@ftumschk]

One thing I will say for the Sony box is that it was a cost-effective way to acquire five rather good recordings I didn't previously have: Ormandy, Boulez, Ozawa/Chicago, Tilson-Thomas/SFS and Bernstein/LSO. I think I only paid around £20 for the whole set, so it was worth getting for those recordings alone.

[@patrickhackett7881]

I'd like it for the crucial works-- Beethoven 9, Beethoven String Quartet 14, Beethoven Grosse Fuge, Bach Mass in B Minor, Bach WTC, Mendelssohn Elijah, and Bruckner 9

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

I thoroughly enjoyed this video! And can't barely wait for the next instalment in this new, ongoing and entertaining onslaught on idiocy! ☠ PS. I'm so glad, that I've succeeded in laying my hands on the Holy Furtwängler Grail: Tahra's SACD refurbishment of the 1944 Vienna performance of Beethoven's 3. It's a stunner! And when it comes to "Der Fall Furtwängler", perhaps, a little more nuance were in place. One can with justification use many terms to denounce his staying in Germany under the nazi-regime: selfserving egomaniacality; not as much political naive, I would say, as so much out of touch with reality, that it bordered on delusional, and maybe sometime was; grandiosity beyond delusional, with his Ideas of being able to outmaneuver the nazis for preserving and furthering German art and culture ('Die hohe, deutsche Kunst'), when in fact, they were playing him like a puppeteer his marionets, etc. etc. His own political view outspoken national-conservative, but there is nothing pointing to him having downright neither nazi sympathies nor beliefs; actually what there is of evidence tends to point in the other direction - at least from what I've read. I'm in no way trying to exonerate Furtwängler, just stating that his case is quite complex and calls for a nuanced evaluation. Karajan on the other hand was a party member, not only once, but twice, as he joined as well the Austrian as the German nazi party - whether, as he later claimed, out of necessity, for opportunistic reasons, or out of conviction, remains to be speculated upon. Some would say, that to characterize Böhm as 'an opportunistic swine' would be to use too subtle a terminology: Böhm without wincing took over Busch's position in Dresden, when Busch was forcefully driven out of the town by the nazis, to mention but one of several like incidents for which he never expressed neither any guilt nor remorse. Richard Strauss, not only opportunistic, but also as downright antisemitic as the milieu in which he grew up - this sometimes passed over because of his affiliation with Stefan Zweig and the fact that his daughter-in-law was of jewish ancestry. There was a reason, why Toscanini proclaimed, that he took off his hat for Strauss the composer, but put it on again for Strauss the person! Furtwängler's case has become iconic, but I could go on and on mentioning musicians, who, in my book, more clearly deserve to be denounced and reviled for their actions and beliefs during this most dark chapter of human history!

[@ThreadBomb]

Karajan's second wife (married 1942) was part Jewish, so at least he was not a convinced anti-Semite.

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

@@ThreadBomb Or maybe he just felt like his Parteigenossener, the fat Reichsmarshall, who allegedly parafrased former Wiener mayor, Karl Lueger, when declaring: "Wer Jude ist, bestimme Ich!" (Who is a jew, is for me to decide!)

[@JamesDavidWalley]

"Zubin Mehta: The Everything-But-L.A. Edition"

[@paulbrower4265]

Le Sacre is the most important work of the twentieth century, arguably separating what came before and what followed. I can make the case that much that is not classical, such as Jimi Hendrix "Purple Haze", could not be made without it. This said, bad performances aren't worth listening.

[@leslieackerman4189]

I have the Sony and like it quite a lot. All performances are quite illuminating. What I don’t understand is why include the Bernstein LSO (70s) instead of the better and extraordinary NYPO (1958).

[@RabidCh]

Now I know there's another boxset of nothing but Le Sacre.

[@TienTran-nm6ms]

The moral atrocity trophy. RFLAO!

[@elagabalus-imperator]

Whew - I don't own of any of these boxed-sets (!).

[@michaelhartman8724]

always that moment of suspense at the beginning of one of these types of talks...

[@marceloforones6939]

Your comments about Furtwängler’s hideous box made think about one question: why some musicians (Furtwängler is not the only one) are so famous and maybe totally overrated, even when they recorded legacy is sometimes so poor, while a bunch of great masters (let’s remember just Silvestri, which wonderful box you talked about some days ago) depend on smart critics like you to be recognized by their great contribution to music and listeners? I’d love if you could sometime post a talk about that. Thank you! Best regards!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you for the suggestion. I don't know if I can do a talk about it, but let me just say that the case of Furtwangler is rather special, in that his reputation was not based on recordings, and there are enough great ones to sustain the claims of his enthusiasts, alongside tons of dreck that one can make excuses about in various ways. I don't think that anyone else has quite the same combination of circumstances.

[@nicholasjschlosser1724]

Was actually surprised the recent Bernstein Remastered box wasn't included here. That one was such a dissapointment since so much was left out.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Annoying, I agree, but not quite ridiculous.

[@jeroendejong6680]

I would buy the Furtwängler set to try to hear the allied bombs or Soviet artillery in the background. That's the historical significance of it, the Reich ripped to pieces. O, I'm not a Furtwängler fan, some exceptions granted.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You can hear that on the Gieseking "Emperor" Concerto disc. After that, one allied bombing sounds much like another.

[@patrickhackett7881]

I'm a Furtwangler fan, but mostly of some of the recordings in decentish sound, like the famous Schumann 4 recording

[@giannimorelenbaumgualberto230]

Excellent analysis, as always.

[@pbarach1]

I'd add the giant Sony Stravinsky box to this list because there is another Sony Stravinsky box ("Stravinsky Edition) with 22 CDs that originally sold for $35--and used copies are still cheaper than the Big Box and contain Stravinsky's best performances of all his major works.

[@JohnChambers-lh5bw]

I also have this box set . Brilliant

[@eugenebraig413]

Never neglect the opportunity to include Schmidt No.4!

[@avihalevi5042]

hi David Sooo, you paid for zee Nazzii Box...I know a good BBQ that needs kindling...are you game? What could DGG possibly be thinking...I shudder to think of those audiences and those who were elsewhere occupied...chilling

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's not on DG--it's the BPO's own label.

[@avihalevi5042]

@@DavesClassicalGuide somehow , that seems worse....we should always remember what happened and never forget, But you would think it is a part of the orchestra's history that would caste a pall of shame,,, such may be a reflection of the times we live in

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@avihalevi5042 Sadly yes.

[@duncanjams889]

I don't know how anyone can listen to the Furtwangler Nazi radio recording without considering all the concurrent historical circumstances. There used to be a British record label with the strapline "happy to be part of the industry of human happiness." Those Third Reich recordings are more akin to human misery. The whole project is irredeemably tainted. On a happier note Dave, will you be doing an ideal Dvorak symphony cycle? I've got my credit card at the ready! :)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, I will.

[@Don-md6wn]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Given the scarcity of Dvorak symphonies 1-5 in individual recordings or pairs, are you going to be able to recommend an ideal Dvorak cycle that doesn't require the purchase of 5 or 6 complete cycles? Not that owning a bunch of cycles would be a bad thing. For years I had only knew Kertesz for the first 5 and thought they were OK, but I added the very cheap Suitner cycle on your recommendation and he has really raised my opinion of them.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@Don-md6wn Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2 may be problematic, but this is an "Ideal" cycle, not necessarily a practical one, and if it involved buying cycles I need to make sure that they are worth having and not too expensive (hopefully). Remember, originally all of these symphonies were released on individual LPs.

[@ThreadBomb]

@@Don-md6wn The Pesek and Gunzenhauser cycles were also very solid.

[@UlfilasNZ]

I agree with you about the questionable ethics of that Furtwängler box. Should they really be profiting from that? In saying that, it's a nice-looking box.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Lovely, no expense spared, and you pay a pretty penny for it.

[@edwinbaumgartner5045]

@@DavesClassicalGuide But we've all been eagerly waiting for Furtänglers piano concerto. Haven't we? And one gets the fragments of the 1st "Daphnis" suite also. And Beethoven's timpani-concerto with chorus in the last movement. Isn't that great? Just kidding....

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@edwinbaumgartner5045 Fabulous!

[@bugopolo]

I don’t know which one is funnier -(or ridicules for that matter) This or “Nazis on parade”

[@edwinbaumgartner5045]

@@bugopolo You mean, time for Tinnitus records to issue Karajan's finest performances from 1933-1945? I fear, Tinnitus will rather produce "The best tunes of Pierre Boulez"...

[@barryguerrero7652]

No wonder you got 13 'thumbs down' on this one. Every Furtwaengler sycophant suddenly crawled out from under their rocks. Nothing like stirring a hornet's nest.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll survive the opprobrium.